Today on the podcast, we have Dylan Mandel.
Dylan, welcome brother.
Thanks, Nick.
Thanks for making the trip.
Yeah, man.
All right.
So there's a lot that I want to talk about today.
And before we hit record, this happens a lot of time on the podcast.
We sit down before we even start recording and we start just like diving right into it.
There's a lot of just energy I can feel. between us right now.
And I know that that energy is being driven by our faith, our love for Jesus and what he's been doing in your life for quite some time and what he's been doing in my life as of recently.
And I know that that is going to drive this powerful conversation today.
I'm feeling it.
I'm like getting stirred up right now.
Yeah, man.
This is good.
You know, when we were talking before we started recording, it kind of shifted where I wanted to take the beginning of this episode.
So I want to ask you the question.
How strong are you on your own by yourself as Dylan?
Dude, I'm a nobody.
I'm a nobody.
And I'm not with the Lord.
I'm the weakest ever.
I'm like the most broken person.
I'm the most scared.
I'm crying first.
I'm quitting first.
I'm scared first.
And then when I'm walking with the Lord is what people see.
You know, people see me online.
They think that I'm just some strong dude.
There's a lot of strong people in this world, but I'm not one of them and I'm not with the Lord.
The Lord is my strength, the Lord is my motor.
That like it's almost like when I got baptized in the spirit like two years ago, and then like became believer and started reading his word.
It was like this fire got lit inside of me.
That wasn't my own, it's all him.
Yeah, I think the spirit of God has unlimited power, unlimited potential.
And he can work things in people when they become like surrendered to that.
If you open yourself up to say, Holy Spirit, I need you.
God, I need your power.
I need your strength.
I can't do this on my own.
He will provide you what you need.
But people need to be humble enough to ask for it.
I find that super powerful.
And I think people need to hear that, because For those of us who come across your social media posts and your persona online, I would just assume that you are always strong.
You are always on.
And I think some people might see that and think, well, I don't have that strength.
I don't have that courage.
But what I'm hearing is in the reality when you're not in the word, when you're not following the Lord, you're just as weak as everyone else.
We all are. weak in the absence of the father.
Yeah, and it's like the more I've walked with the Lord under trials, the more I've realized that you need to be in his word daily.
You need to be praying often and always.
Like I'm praying, like 24 seven, like in the car, in the shower, when I wake up, when I go to bed, when I'm with people.
I like to lay hands on people.
It's like, you have to be praying always.
You have to be reading his word.
I feel like the days that I like play the card I'm too busy is when fear starts to trickle in.
When I play the card oh, I got too much on my plate is when I might get a little anxious before I go to bed.
And I've just noticed that it's so correlated, like walking with the Lord and the strength, that you see it's like they're so parallel because the source of the strength is him.
It's not like he never changes.
It's not like he's never like pulls back because he actually lives inside of you.
But the only variable is our awareness of him.
And what the enemy wants for you is he wants you to be distracted.
You know, like you being busy is not a sin.
Busyness is not a sin, but the enemy might pump your schedule so full that you might not have time to even look to him or see him.
And that's in his eyes a win. and so our, our awareness of the Lord is such a variable.
And that if you are looking to him always, it's like what you can achieve in that full surrendered and awareness to him.
It's like, there's no ceiling to what you can and cannot do.
Yeah.
I want to come back to distraction at some point.
Yeah.
Because I think that is like the the, the distraction from the enemy is like such a powerful I'll use the word powerful tactic that is wrecking so many people, us included, on a daily basis.
I do want to share a piece of scripture before we go into the next point.
But as I was preparing for this conversation today, as I was telling you before we started recording, a few words were just like on my mind.
One is warrior.
Two is persevere or perseverance.
And the third is suffering.
You know, you are fighting cancer for the fourth time right now.
And how old are you?
22.
22 years old.
22.
And you're on your fourth diagnosis of cancer.
Yeah.
James 1, 2 through 4.
You got it pulled up?
This is such a good word.
Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know the testing of your faith produces perseverance.
Let perseverance finish its work so you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
I've also pulled Romans 5 through 5.
But also, glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance.
Perseverance, character, and character, hope.
And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
And lastly, I have Proverbs 3, 5 through 6 trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding.
And all your ways submit to him and he will make your path straight.
So right now at 22 years old, battling cancer for the fourth time.
And what sort of mental health mindset are you at right now?
How are you feeling about this most recent diagnosis?
I think spiritually it's a non-factor for me.
But I think personally, I'm like so ready to be done.
Tired?
Yeah.
I'm like, I will live.
This will not hurt me.
I am fully born again by the spirit of God saying Galatians, I've crucified the flesh.
I'm living for Jesus.
Cancer cannot touch me.
But man to man, I'm tired, bro.
I bet.
I'm tired.
I'm deeply excited just to move on.
Yeah, man.
I'm glad you mentioned James 1 too.
Count it all joy.
What a difficult ask that is.
I mean, I can't even imagine.
It's not even saying count some joy.
Count the stuff that you want to be joyful as joyful.
It says count all.
I think James 1 2 is one of those verses that, like you read it and you're like this is not written by man, but this is actually God influenced.
What man in their right mind would write, count it all joy, but him.
And I read that and I'm like you're telling me that I get off these Zoom calls and with the Dodgers they're back in California and, like you're telling me, I have to be joyful then too.
Yes, that's what it says.
And the reason that we can be joyful in everything that we face is because it's already been paid for on the cross.
That that would be counting everything as joyful is an impossible statement and it's an impossible ask unless it's already been done and fully sealed by the blood of Jesus on the cross.
Like I can sit here and be joyful because everything I could ever need was paid for 2000 years ago on the cross.
The world thinks that there's cancer in my body.
Fine, let them.
But I was healed 2000 years ago on the cross.
And I've been healed for 2000 years.
And so I sit in that.
That's where I sleep at night.
I sleep like a baby at night because I just soak on the truth that everything that I could need, including healing, has already been paid for in full.
His blood covered it all.
And me and you, who are children, get to just inherit it as a gift.
That's amazing.
It's like, how beautiful is that?
And so spiritually, I'm so beyond cancer.
But selfishly, I'm just like, I want to be done.
I get it, man.
So bad.
I get it.
So bad.
Like I said, I can't imagine.
And I feel for you, especially at 22 years old, man.
How old were you when you were first diagnosed?
I was 18.
18?
Yeah.
How did...
How did you come across that diagnosis?
Were you feeling something?
Did you go in for a checkup?
Like, how did that happen?
Yeah, it was like numbness in my lip.
I was like driving and I was like, I was like, why is my lip like numb?
I felt like you just got like at the dentist, like a lidocaine shot or something.
I was like, why is my lip numb?
I felt like I needed like my wisdom teeth out.
You know, went to the wisdom tooth doctor and they were like hey man, you got a bigger problem than just a wisdom tooth issue here.
Um, And so like he showed there was like a tumor just growing through the jaw.
Through like MRI or x-rays?
Yeah.
So he, it was like in the dentist office, did like a 3D thing, 3D scan.
And they're like, look, I'm not, I'm the wisdom tooth guy.
You know, you gotta go, you gotta go get this checked out by someone else.
And yeah, I did.
The biopsy confirmed that it was.
It was disease in the body and my whole life changed.
And I will say though, my story is not a cancer story.
It's not like a sob story.
My story is a faith testimony.
It's a testament to the Lord's goodness.
You look at me, I'm not defined by what's attacked me.
I'm defined by the blood that covers me.
I'm defined by Him and not cancer.
I think the hardest part about posting faith in testimony online is that people make my identity what's been attacking me and not who covers me, and I think when I tell you I'm excited to move past it.
I really am like I want people to see me as Dylan, the child of God, the minister to people, and not Dylan, you know, the person who had unfortunate circumstances I should.
I love that you say that, that you don't want your identity to be Dylan, the kid who had cancer four times.
But at the same time, that is testing your faith.
That is part of what is producing the perseverance and the hope.
And people see that.
And no matter what they're going through, they're like, well, look at Dylan's hope.
Look at Dylan's faith.
Look at how strong he is through the Lord.
He's not playing victim.
He is a child of God and his faith is so strong.
I mean, I see that.
I'm like, what do I have to complain about?
God's working in Dylan's life.
God's definitely working in my life.
Dude, faith is a superpower.
It's probably the most important thing that anyone could ever have.
If you have faith in nothing else, you can do anything.
Yeah.
You know, faith is surrender.
Like I look around this world and all I see is pride.
I see people thinking that they're so good themselves that they can do everything on their own willpower and their own strength.
And God says, no, no, no.
If you actually, if you're humble enough, because humility leads to awareness.
If you're humble, then you become aware of him.
And then he says, no, no, no.
Through me, you can do all things.
I can do some things on my strength and you can do many things on your strength, but you can't do all things by yourself, but you can do all things through him.
You can do all things for him.
And I could have never gotten up out of those hospital beds without him.
It's his strength.
And I'm just here to testify to that truth.
When did you find God?
Like when did he enter your life?
Was it prior to that first diagnosis or was it throughout the journey of battling cancer?
A little bit of both.
I grew up believing in God.
And then through cancer, I learned to fear God.
My grandma's a prayer warrior.
She'd be praying over my brother and I and my little sister.
So my childhood was like getting prayed over.
Went to like youth camps, all the things.
I heard you talking about that on Bryce's podcast.
Dude, she is a prayer warrior.
She's a prayer warrior.
That's amazing.
Like when I would get babysat by her, she'd just lay hands on us and just pray.
But then I went to TCU and then there's a really good college ministry there at TCU.
Got plugged in and really learned to like fear the Lord, get convicted of sin, have this passion to pursue him and not just the temporary pleasures of the world.
And my whole life changed then because when I went through cancer the first time I did chemo and radiation and like all that.
And I didn't really fear God then.
And that's when I really saw who I really was without him And who was that?
When I did chemo, I would just lay there and just cry.
They'd be pumping it through my chest, right?
It's like they have a port.
And I would just cry during infusions.
Because you were scared or because it was painful?
I was just scared.
I just was like sad.
Didn't have a lot of hope.
Like I just... look in the mirror and I didn't recognize who I saw.
Like you're, you know, like 60 pounds lighter, your head shaved.
I just had a surgery done on my jaws.
Like it was just like, we're just cracks.
I didn't, you know, like I didn't recognize who I saw.
Um, and I was really broken and sad when I, when I was just, I felt alone.
And then I finished, um, beat cancer the first time.
And then I just went all in on the Lord.
I was like, there's something more here.
There's hope in him.
And my grandma had built me such a faith foundation that I didn't even know that I had until I started to pursue him.
I started reading the word and I'm like, man, I actually know a lot of this.
So it was just being prayed over me my whole childhood.
That's incredible.
Yeah, I'm like, wait, I've heard that before.
Planting seeds.
Planting seeds.
And that's like, I think it's just kind of a side note in the faith.
Like sometimes like God just wants you to just be planting seeds in other people.
You know, like you don't have to, like you know, save somebody in one conversation, but you can plant a seed in somebody.
Like, especially in college right now, like just planting seeds in kids.
So you never know where that can go.
But there were just so many seeds that were planted in me that really blossomed after cancer one.
That's been kind of like me and my wife's approach with our kids right now.
Because my daughter's three years old.
My son's one.
Initially I tried taking an approach with my daughter of teaching her who, trying to teach her who Jesus was.
And I'm telling her about the Holy Spirit.
I'm like, Jesus loves you.
She's like, I don't love him.
I don't want the Holy Spirit within me.
All right, maybe you're a little young to understand this.
Our approach now is planting seeds.
But I have a question for you which is a selfish question, because one of the things my wife and I talk about is when our kids have to go to college one day.
The hope is that they get plugged into the right group of friends.
And a lot of that is based off of the way we raise them.
And it's our responsibility to plant those seeds and introduce them to the Lord and build that relationship.
When you started going to TCU, what made you make the decision?
Because it was before getting diagnosed, correct?
I was a senior in high school when I was first diagnosed.
Finished chemo and then went to college right after cancer one.
Okay.
Yeah.
So then when you went to TCU, you've went through that experience.
I'm assuming that that was part of the genesis, if you will, of what led you to getting plugged into ministry.
Yeah, yeah.
I grew up fearing my parents.
And I think we need to talk about that more.
Like you said, like your daughter can't like comprehend this, but she can comprehend respecting you.
She can comprehend having a healthy fear of you.
And a fear of their parents.
A healthy fear of the parents just transitions to a beautiful fear of God.
And that's like, that's the transition.
And I've noticed that kids that don't grow up fearing repercussion, fearing consequences for the wrongdoing, are people that you know kind of spiral.
But if you grow up more disciplined and structured, saying like no, I love you, I'm your parent, I'm a parent before I'm your best friend.
A healthy fear of the parents transitions just to the, just an awesome fear of God.
And I grew up.
You know it's not like I was afraid of my parents, but I like I never wanted to like disobey what they told me to do.
And then I heard the gospel message like more consistently when I was like 18 and 19.
And it just like clicked.
It just made a lot of sense.
Can you share one some of the things that your parents did growing up that facilitated this healthy fear?
My dad is just a strong dude.
Okay.
Yeah.
I just didn't want to like, yeah.
If you got yelled at, you know it's just like a few, like just just real, like chew outs.
You know he comes home from work like just like, give you, give you a good yell.
Was he like a godly man growing up?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I grew up in the faith.
You know, like, think like I saw like some kids I grew up with and their parents were their best friend and they just said yes to everything and like it's good to say yes to your kids but like if you said be home by 11 or no no no you went out this night you can't go out with your friends this night it's like that's healthy it's not restricting it's just healthy and I never want like if you told me you know hey I need you to like take out the trash I need you to like go to the basement and like do some things like before I get home from work like It just gets done.
I don't know.
I think that's just super healthy.
So that healthy fear of your parents created a healthy respect of your parents as well.
Yeah.
How would you describe what it means to have a fear of God, fear of the Lord?
Because, as I've shared that on my platforms, a lot of people I've realized don't understand what that means.
They go, why should you fear?
God yeah, how do you, how you describe that fear of God is awe of God, just an awe of him.
I just like it would say in Romans 8 31, like for if God is for me, who could be against me?
It's me grasping that in full, like if I'm walking with the Lord, I'm just in awe of his power and his magnitude, and That like there's no fear that I can't achieve something with him, because I'm just in awe of the glory that he carries.
Fear of God is also me just highly respecting his ultimate judgment.
Like he brings justice.
And if you're not under the blood of Jesus, it's like there's consequences and he's the eternal judge.
He's the eternal judge.
And so fear of God is like.
I respect his authority and his power and his position so much to the point that I'm willing to get myself in straight.
I'm gonna get my act together for it.
You know, I'm not saying like be afraid of God, but just walk in this like all of his power, in this just high respect for the authority that he has.
His wrath has so much power.
No one can escape it.
And I mean, once I felt the fear of God, I truly understood it.
It's like I bow down on my knees and worship the Lord.
I don't know if you've ever come across Pastor Joby Martin's stuff.
He's someone that I've been following for a little bit now.
And he just released a new book.
It's called Stand Firm and Act Like Men.
And maybe you saw Pastor Joby Martin.
You'd probably love him because he's a jack dude.
He's got tattoos.
He's a man's man.
Thick Southern accent.
And he talks a lot about how one of the most dangerous characteristics of men or boys today is that they have pride.
And that the manliest of men that he's seen are the guys in the front row of his sermons during worship, on their hands and knees, hands lifted high, bowing down to God.
He's like, that's a man.
And so many men who think they're men are like, no, that's weakness.
No, no, no.
That's the fear of God.
That is worshiping the all of God.
That's a warrior.
That's a leader.
That's a man.
There's this... incorrectly perceived notion of what a man is today.
And I was like, man, you can't be a man without God.
It's the opposite of what the world's telling you.
Yeah.
It's honestly like the way that God thinks is not the way that we think.
He actually oftentimes thinks in the exact opposite way.
Like he says, in order to go high, you must go low.
Like if he makes examples, like if I go to you and like in biblical terms like, wash your feet, like that's a sign of respect.
That if I put myself in a servant position for you, that means in his eyes I'm going as high and as glorious as possible.
He says that you must give to receive.
Like his thinking is so inverse and like it's not.
Yeah, I mean, it's not a surprise that, like what a real man is is to actually be the most humble person and the most surrendered.
That's not about.
Being a man in the world is how much you take on yourself, but a man for the kingdom is how much you give away to him.
I was driven by worldly ambitions for much of my life.
And I pursued, as I was telling you earlier, performance and achievement and gathering and collecting of things and wealth and worldly abundance.
And the more that I gathered, the emptier I felt.
And I was like, man, there's gotta be, there's gotta be something I'm missing.
So I would listen to another self-help podcast.
I would read another self-help book.
I would try a new business tactic.
And all of these things, which I've now come to realize were transactional, were leading me in the worldly pursuits of what is a distraction from the enemy.
And until I started following the one word, the truth.
I then stopped pursuing transaction and I experienced transformation.
So good.
That's what was powerful for me.
Yeah, man.
It's it's, and and.
After experiencing that and now being able to see, like the only way I can describe is I was blind and now I see, and I just want, I want to tell everyone, cause I don't.
I don't want you to miss out on this.
I don't want you to, to feel this, this huge, just calling to share.
So this is like, this is what I've witnessed, and I want you to experience and witness the same thing.
And that's what you're doing with your platform too.
And that's what's so amazing, that God is putting you under trial and testing your faith.
And as much as you are being put in a position of suffering after suffering after suffering, your faith and obedience and full surrender, Man dude, that is what people need to see.
That is absolutely incredible.
And dude, I'm so proud of what you're doing.
For 22 years old, the amount of wisdom you have is incredible.
Thanks.
Incredible.
Thank you.
Yeah.
I'm getting kind of choked up right now.
It says right here, blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial.
And the verse you just read, my translation says steadfastness.
That steadfastness in its full effect, that you may be perfect, complete and lacking nothing.
I don't care about clicks or worldly achievements.
Couldn't give a rip about a follower account or who you think you are in this world.
I care about him.
I'm a scared public speaker.
I'm an introvert at heart.
I prefer to be just in a small group with just four people or in a prayer room by myself than on a stage with a microphone.
But the Lord has changed my life so much, to the point where I'm gonna face my fears because I wanna tell you about it.
The Lord's worked in my life so much to the point that I don't care about anything else, except I just want at least one person just to hear the good news of the gospel.
This gospel is so, it's such good news.
It's like the best news.
And I'm going to give my life for it.
I love it, man.
Yeah.
I love it.
I want to pivot a little bit.
You know like coming across your, the stuff you post and share online, as much as it is about the journey that you're on and glorifying God, much of your life is is training to be this warrior mentally, spiritually and physically.
And that's one of the ways you know.
I grew up in the church, central Pennsylvania, but I didn't know what having a relationship with the Lord was really all about.
So growing up, my vision of Christianity was that it's all like happy, go lucky.
And Jesus was like this, very nice and humble and just kind person who he was and is.
But I now have this different view of Jesus as this warrior, as this healer and servant, but also fighter.
And much of your life is built around training and building your body.
I'm curious what that looks like for you in terms of the discipline of how you work out and how you eat.
And I heard you talking about on Bryce's podcast that you grew up an athlete.
You and your brother both grew up athletes, but you had to prepare for this big surgery that could have killed you.
There was a chance you weren't going to make it out of that surgery.
So you trained extremely hard and you were very disciplined in preparation for the surgery.
Can you just share what that experience was like?
Yeah, so it was cancer number two in my life.
I was 19.
They basically said, look, we're planning the surgery.
The date's in about 29 days.
You got four weeks and some change.
And you got to get in the best shape you can be in, because they're going to put you under for 21 hours.
Of anesthesia.
Anesthesia.
Yeah, and they can't just do that.
Like for like.
For people it's like never really an option, but they're like look, this is, this is what we have to do.
Like this procedure that we're going to do on you is is going to.
It's going to save your life if we can do it.
But you need to walk in like as prepared physically and mentally as possible.
And that, that lit this fire in me.
And in hindsight, that was all God driven.
In the moment I couldn't really, I didn't understand that what I was feeling.
This motor was entirely the strength of the Lord.
But I had to get myself just as locked in as I could.
It was like I had a whiteboard in my garage gym with just a 29 and a 28 and a 27, 26.
It was just, I learned to get up early and every day was a 4 a.m. alarm, non-negotiable.
I could train at seven, but I just think like the alarm is just step one.
If you can be disciplined with your alarm clock, then you can be disciplined in pretty much everything else in your life.
I love when my alarm clock goes off at 4 a.m., dude.
Yeah.
I love it.
Yeah.
I hate it, by the way.
Speak for yourself.
But I would just, you know, I'm not a morning person, but you still have to be disciplined.
And so I just keep all my stuff like wrapped on my bed, in my shoes.
I had like electrolytes in a bottle.
I had like a like two bananas um sock shoes and like um like my ankle braces and my like leg support.
Um, and I would just rock, you know, I just would go as far as I could.
Um, and then when my leg was my leg started to hurt on the trail, I'll just go back and I just get on my bike and I'll just start biking and then I just hit the weights hard and Diet's really important.
So we'll just be crushing food.
I wanted to put on as much weight as possible, because you lose so much weight in recovery and from surgery that I was like okay, I'm going to be as heavy as I can be in.
I'm going to be in the best cardiovascular shape I can be in.
And I'm just going to give my body just a fighting chance.
And we did.
And we did it.
And it was just one of those things where I had cancer the first time.
I didn't know anything going in.
When I had to do that surgery the second time, I knew everything going in.
And I think that was worse.
What do you mean you knew everything?
What'd you know?
I knew what lied on the other side of those hospital doors.
The most traumatic thing, memories and experiences.
My most painful traumas that are buried so deep lie there.
Yeah.
And you're telling me that I have to go back.
That's all I would think about when I would wake up early.
It's just those memories of, just like those chemo infusions, just like cycling through just those long nights.
The pain will just be cycling through.
And it just yeah, it just drove me to be the best person I could be going in, the strongest person I could be going in.
But it wasn't easy.
Like everything's a battle.
Like you wake up on the morning of the surgery.
Like you have to wake up super early, get there, you know, sign your life away on documents and like get to the pre-op room.
Like getting from my house into the car because you know the car is what's going to drive you.
There is a battle.
Driving there it was like a 45 minute drive.
Just looking out the window, everything's just circling of what you're about to go into.
That's a battle.
You got to go out of the car through the parking lot, across the street and in the hospital.
That's a battle.
You're in the pre-op room getting a gown on.
They're like rushing in putting IVs in.
They have a sharpie.
They're sharpying their access points.
There was three surgical teams that came in.
There was the head and neck tumor removal team.
There was the reconstruction team.
And then there was the neurological team that came in.
And so all these groups were coming in with all their people.
It's just chaotic in all these steps. is a battle in and of itself.
And it's the strength of the Lord is the only way you can be peaceful in the midst of that.
It's the only way.
And I remember going to the bathroom just to kind of pet myself up before we're about to go in.
And I'm just kind of looking at myself in the mirror.
Just like I looked at myself.
I'm like whatever condition you wake up in, no matter what it looks like, be strong.
And I just looked at myself, gave myself a smile.
I just wanted to like smile at myself.
And I walked back, back over and they're ready to roll.
And so they just pushed me back.
And yeah, I just, I woke up in a, a pain state you can't even like describe.
Just gnarly, dude.
Looked like a car accident.
It's like, it's just blood like pouring down my face.
It was like my head was resting in like a pool of blood.
Was that another jaw surgery?
Yeah, yeah.
It was, yeah, another head surgery. but they went all the way over the scalp.
So gnarly, dude.
They took half my quad out for that one for the reconstruction part.
That's just been gnarly, because they need what you have in your legs to reconstruct what they take out.
I don't have a fibula bone in my right calf and I lost half my right quad.
So I'm like fully handicapped in my right leg right now.
Been doing physical therapy for years.
When was that second surgery?
That was April of 2023.
Okay.
April 23.
So a little over two years now.
Yeah.
About two and a half years.
And I'm doing good.
You know, like any expectation a doctor gives you it's like can shatter it.
We're just breaking expectations.
But back to it.
I had really traumatic experiences from medication side effects.
During cancer one, like pretty much all those pain medications caused me to have like really just awful side effects.
So much so to where when i woke up in like that just car wreck looking procedure, i refused all pain meds.
I said i'm not taking what you're giving me.
I'd rather feel this pain than lose myself and like hallucinate and like trip and like all these things that like were so traumatic.
And so in cancer too, in that surgery I was like I woke up with no pain meds.
I just sat in it.
I was just, I'll feel all of it.
I'd rather be fully mentally here and present with my family who's right here and feel this, than have a side effect from a pain med.
And so that led to just learning to be comfortable in pain.
I can't imagine.
Pain's a choice.
How long did that last, that level of intensity?
Probably like a hundred hours, couple days.
Couldn't speak, because there was a ventilator coming out of my mouth.
It seemed to be very internal everything's going on up here, but i can't say anything.
I'm just laying back in a puddle of blood, looking at this tube coming out of my mouth and like everything's hurting, but i can't say it.
I can't say anything.
What am i going to do?
Like bang something together?
You know, people don't know.
And so i had to get really comfortable internally That when I looked at myself in the mirror before it and I said be strong, like you had to be strong.
But I was starting to learn that I couldn't do this.
I couldn't be strong by myself.
Like it was getting too bad.
It was too much for me to handle.
And so I just internally just cried to the Lord.
Like that was my breaking point, that was my moment when people say do you have like a moment when, like your faith was like really forged?
I'm like, yeah.
When I couldn't speak under the pain, I yelled to the Lord in my mind and he heard every word and he wiped away every tear.
He lit a fire in me in that moment, just like kick-started this recovery process.
That was like supernatural.
Like I left the hospital and recovered in half the expected time.
They would come in every morning for their like daily, you know, checklist of like, what can you do?
What you can't do?
How's your progress on these things?
And like, when you check, you know, like, There are 10 requirements.
You can go home.
And it's like every morning they'd come in, we're just checking boxes.
It's like, how is this happening?
It's the Lord.
It's the Lord.
And we got out of it.
I love this analogy of the fire.
And you've brought it up a few times throughout this conversation so far, which is very interesting timing, because right before you got to AHQ today, someone sent me a message and it was literally said hey man like, because I've been more bold and public with my faith and my journey and how my relationship, my intimate relationship with Jesus Christ, is making this transformation but renewal of not just my life but my family's life and everything around me right now.
This person sent me a message that was, hey man, just keep the fire going.
Just keep the fire going.
And I got this message and it really just hit home for me because that's our responsibility.
That is the fear of God.
Keep the fire, keep the fire, keep the fire.
And that fire comes from being in the word, being in prayer, maintaining full surrender, being obedient.
You can't let that fire die.
The enemy wants that fire to extinguish and burn out.
Of all that has happened in these, I guess I'll ask the question first.
It's been four years roughly since you've been first diagnosed, right?
Does four years feel fast or very slow?
Slow.
Slow.
So much has happened in four years.
I can't even remember my life before this.
It's insane.
I can't like, I, I like forget.
I forget what my life is before this.
And that's why when I say at the beginning, I'm spiritually past it.
But man to man, I'm so ready to be done.
I just want to make memories not about this.
Yeah, you just want to live your life.
Yeah.
And there's no doubt that that's not coming.
And so I don't want to say that with a doubtful tone.
The Lord gives me hope.
And I'm deeply excited for that day when it's gone and we can just move on.
But man, I want it to be today.
So bad.
Yeah.
I mean, I want that for you.
I do want that for you.
But you got to recognize how wise you are because of what the Lord has put you under.
I mean, he tells us many times throughout scripture it's not just about knowing, but it's about understanding.
And understanding is wisdom.
And brother, for a 22-year-old dude, you got a lot of wisdom.
I've seen a lot.
You got a lot of understanding.
Yeah, man.
You just don't see it and read it, but you know it.
And it's very obvious.
Thank you.
And we got to have faith that he's putting you under these trials and tribulations for a very specific reason and purpose.
I got a word for that.
Yeah.
Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you.
Don't be surprised.
It's not a matter of if there's going to be challenges you face.
It's a matter of when.
And so don't be surprised, but look to the one who already set you free from it?
What's the one who gives you hope in the midst of it?
It would say, like just a little bit past and after you suffered a little while that the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore confirm, strengthen and establish you.
There's something about suffering that's it's not from God, but He's just so good at using it for His glory.
That God, there's a man that God wants you to be, and it might be on the other side of suffering.
That suffering is, again not from Him, but God is wise enough to maybe let you sit in it for a second, to forge you in that, to then become who he wants you to be.
But St.
Jeremiah 18, that God is like the potter and we're like the clay.
We're just a piece of mush, piece of clay.
I don't know if you know anything about like a pottery process.
We get spun on a wheel and you get smacked on this thing and you get pushed into it and you get a vase like a, a clay vase, out of it.
And that's a season that some people might be in right now.
You might be in a season right now where you're going from a ball of clay into just this beautiful vase in the eyes of God.
But you got to like spin it in circles.
Sometimes people might be saying, man, I feel like I'm spinning.
You're on that wheel.
Some people think, man, I feel like there's my life.
It's just raining in my life.
You got to put water on the clay as you're spinning it to form it.
But then it's fully molded on the wheel, but it's still just a sopping wet piece of fragile clay.
And if you don't do anything to it, it's just going to collapse and go right back to just being a ball.
And so you have to get put in the furnace and you have to heat it up.
And it's sitting in the furnace, is what hardens and strengthens the clay into the vase that God made you into.
That's good.
And so you might look around and say, I'm somewhere on that process.
He might turn the heat up so hot in your life because he loves the vase that he created you into.
That God sculpted you into just this beautiful image of himself And he's like I'm gonna turn the heat up in your life because I want you to stay how I created you and not fall back to where you once were.
So it says, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you.
Man, dude, pressure is a privilege.
For God to look at me and you, that one point in our life to just be just a ball of nothing.
And for him to say, I...
I love you so much, to the point that I'm going to mold you and then I'm going to put you in the furnace, because I want you to be something better.
It's a blessing.
It's such a blessing.
That's incredibly said and extremely visual.
I think for a lot of people who don't have a strong faith or foundation or understanding, that analogy, that visualization just like really puts a bow on it.
As you were going through multiple surgeries diagnosis treatments I'd have to assume that you were doing this in the hospital alongside other people who are also going through similar treatments or surgeries.
Was there a, I'm assuming yes, but was there a huge difference?
Like, did you, did you meet people who were going through similar journeys who didn't have God?
He didn't know who he was.
And watch them try to navigate these trials and tribulations and just go off the rails be lost struggle.
I've never been asked that.
There's an interesting fork in the road that you hit when you have extreme circumstances and you can either go I hate God or I need God.
And there's a lot of people who say, I hate God.
How could this happen to me?
I've done good things.
I'm not a bad person.
How could a God who's good have me go through this?
And there's 99% of people that fall this camp.
And I think one of my goals in life is just to help more people in this camp.
Yeah, I saw hopelessness in people.
I saw people giving up.
I would hear people in other rooms like wailing all night long.
He's our great comforter.
And I want just the blanket of love of God, just to blanket these people and give them eyes to see and ears to hear, to come home.
It's hard, dude.
Yeah.
It's hard because all you see is hopelessness in the patients and in doctors, and It feels like hopelessness is the theme of a hospital.
And it's mainly due to the absence of faith.
Where faith is, hope is.
And where faith isn't, hopelessness is there.
And I would love just to bring more faith and hope into the hospital scene as it needs it.
Did you have any doctors or nurses on your team that were strong believers?
He incorporated faith into their practice.
Because that is a very strong observation and an accurate statement that when you go to a hospital it's black and white.
It's like, here's what we're dealing with.
Here's the procedure.
Here's the plan.
Here are the expectations.
It's all pre-calculated, predetermined.
There is an absence of faith, which leads to an absence of hope.
I can assume it's really hard to have hope in a hospital because doctors and practitioners are afraid to give you hope, because they don't want to get your hopes up, because then they're letting you down.
So they protect themselves by giving you worst case scenario as opposed to best case scenario.
That's tough, man.
Yeah.
Something I've been chewing on this month has been life and death is in the power of the tongue.
What you speak matters.
What you say matters.
And if I'm constantly speaking the existence of cancer in my life, that's actively hurting me.
And what's hard about the hospital system is It's like you said, they have to say everything.
They spend their time verbalizing the existence of these things, confirming the evil in your life.
To get on the spiritual side of things, cancer is an attack on my body.
Cancer is not who I am.
I'm made perfectly in God's image.
The enemy tried to take things out of my life. in the eyes of God, I'm perfectly his son.
And it's hard for me as a Christian and the enemy's taken so much from me just to like be speaking the existence of something that's just merely just an attack on me.
We don't have to like go deeper into that.
Do you know who Chad Wright is?
No.
No.
Chatterite is a former Navy SEAL, man of God.
I've had him on the podcast a few times.
He's a really good friend.
And one of the things he says is that your tongue is your rudder.
And the things that you say, you speak into existence.
They will lead you mentally, spiritually, physically to those places.
If you tell yourself you're weak, you will become weak.
To tell yourself you're strong, you'll become strong.
If you are constantly complaining or being pessimistic, that will lead you to where you go.
Your tongue is your rudder, like a boat.
Your body is the vessel.
Your tongue is the rudder of that vessel.
And when he told me that the first time that hit me so hard because the first time he ever showed up at BPN HQ, it was middle of the summer
And he showed up early, and I was waiting for him because we were going to record a podcast.
So I'm waiting in the studio, and I see he shows up with his buddy, Chili.
And I think it might have been August.
It was like 110 degrees here in Texas.
And he's running laps around the BPN HQ.
I'm like, what's this guy doing?
He's running.
And we brought him in.
I was like, what were you doing?
Yeah, I got here early.
We decided to get some miles in.
So he came over and I introduced him to the BPN team.
And the first thing that someone said to him when he walked in HQ was he goes hey, how you guys doing.
And someone said, good, but it's really hot.
He met the next person.
Hey, how you doing?
Good, but it's hot out here today.
And he looked over at me.
He's like, your team thinks it's really hot.
It must be really affecting them.
And that's when he then told me, your tongue is your rudder.
If you tell yourself it's hot, If you tell yourself it's difficult, if you tell yourself it's challenging, before you even go into it.
That's what you're expecting.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dude, that's good.
Yeah.
That's good.
Yeah, what you speak matters.
And people don't control their tongues.
People say what they want.
People post what they want.
People are very unfiltered.
And I think part of being a man is being very, I think, conservative in your speech, calculating what you say and careful in what you say.
So what you say matters.
I pray to be a voice for the Lord for a long time.
I pray to be a minister of people, but I need to check myself, because if I want to preach the word of God, then I can't be dulling the sharpness of my blade in my tongue by gossiping, by cussing, by talking negatively, by complaining.
If I do those things, then he says I've made your mouth sharper than a double-edged sword.
Is what I was referencing.
If I just go about being unfiltered with my tongue, not controlling what I say and all the things, then I'm actually hurting what I actually want to do, and that's to preach the word.
I want to go make disciples.
I want to go give people this word.
And I'm hurting myself if I'm uncontrolled with my tongue.
Uncontrolled and undisciplined.
Yeah.
Talk about discipline.
Yeah.
Yeah, man.
Yeah, discipline is everything.
And I think people...
People shortcut discipline.
It's so common.
Discipline is to be disciplined in all aspects of your life.
I think David Goggins called it a part-time savage.
There's a bazillion part-time savages out there.
But if you want to be disciplined, you have to be disciplined in all aspects of your life.
I'm by no means a super athlete, nor do I have goals of doing that.
But I will be disciplined in my diet, in my training, in my sleep, in my regimen, because it helps what I actually am passionate about and what my real goals are.
My goals is actually ministry, my calling's in ministry, but me being disciplined in training diet, sleep and my regimen.
Me being controlled and disciplined in what I say, how I speak to people, the relationships I have.
All of that discipline leads to me being disciplined into my calling.
You know what I mean?
Like I'm not training for anything, fine.
But still train and bust your ass.
You know, eat good food.
Eat what God asks you to eat.
You know, like set an alarm and get up.
Because all that stuff, whether you think about it or not, adds up into the person that you are.
We're a complete being.
It's like a pie chart.
You know if I'm like, people don't think that what they do you know out of the office matters in their life.
But what they do out of the office starts to impact their performance in the office.
If you don't sleep good, you're not going to perform good.
Like your entire life is so interconnected.
And the word discipline is so powerful?
Because if you're disciplined everywhere, you're going to be disciplined in the specific ways that matter to you most.
I think this is so important to touch on.
One of the things that I've said for a long time and I so strongly believe is the way you do one thing is the way you do everything.
And then, and especially in the industry that I'm in, the fitness space, I've met a lot of people who will set their alarm for 4am.
They'll go along 20 miles before they show up to work.
They'll eat all their meals.
But then when they show up to work, they're a turd.
When they show up to their family, they're a turd.
And I'm like, dude, you can't be a stud and disciplined in this one area of your life.
And then it gives you a free-for-all in grace to be a turd in every other area of your life.
It doesn't work that way.
Show up in the same way you do everything.
That's how you build trust.
That's how you're respected for being competent in what you do.
People will look to you as a warrior, a leader, someone who's reliable.
And I feel, and we should all feel, that is a heavy responsibility and burden to carry.
The way we show up for one thing is the way we show up to everything.
But so many people think that I'm disciplined in this area of my life.
So that gives me grace to be lazy and take it easy on all these other areas.
No, no, no, no, no.
Yeah.
The Bible talks about that integrity.
Walk with integrity.
Like so many people are.
They're entirely different people in in all situations they come about in their day.
I don't know if I said that clearly.
People that don't walk with integrity are legitimately a different person in their office than they are outside their office.
People are a different person in a podcast room than they are outside a podcast room.
People are different versions of themselves when they interact with different people.
And that's like just entirely walking with a lack of integrity.
Like if I'm just some, you know, fitness beast.
And then, like you know, between the hours of like 7 PM and 10 PM, I'm just like stuff in my face with sugar.
It's like, I wouldn't call that integrity.
Right.
You know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that I'm the same person all the time.
Yeah.
And it's like, it's too normal for people.
It really is.
So normalized.
I've been in the book of James a lot recently.
Yeah.
James is that one book where Every time I start reading it again and I'll read it at night before I can go to bed it jacks me up.
I can't even fall asleep.
And in, what is it, five chapters in the book of James?
As short as it is, it is packed.
And it talks about how we will be judged if we treat the rich different from the poor.
And we should be treating everyone in the same way.
It's just like you're talking about where, if you show up for one person, You need to show up for that next person, whether they are your brother or they are a stranger, in the same exact way.
That is the integrity that we are speaking upon.
That's challenging, but that's what we're being called to do.
That's a really good word.
Yeah, like everyone's so focused on the titles that the world gives people.
That's your title.
Don't care.
It's like we've all fallen short of the glory.
We need him all equally.
So let's walk in that humility.
I used to get tied up with the titles.
I recently talked about this on a podcast and conversation I had with my wife, where if someone asked hey, who are you?
Who's Nick Baer?
I would say I'm founder and CEO of BPN.
I loved having that title, founder and CEO, more so founder than CEO.
That's who I thought I was.
That was my identity.
That is what I do.
That is my work.
That is not who I am.
My identity is rooted in Christ.
And when I made that shift and I forgot about the worldly title that I gave myself and other people gave me,
And I really accepted and embraced the identity that Christ gave me when he created me.
That's when I really started figuring out who I am, who I was and who I was meant to be.
That changed my life.
Yeah.
He calls you a child of his.
Like, how cool is that?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like in the same way that Jesus is the son of God, you get to also be a son of God.
Pretty cool.
Absolutely incredible.
Pretty cool.
Would you say right now at this point in your life, you're on diagnosis number four.
At this point today, it is November 4th.
Yeah.
When were you diagnosed for the fourth time?
Like August...
I want to say.
Could you say you're at peace right now?
Perfect peace.
What gives you that confidence?
Dude, I'm already healed.
I'm already healed by the blood of Jesus.
I'm healed by what happened 2,000 years ago.
And that comfort is everything.
It says...
1 Peter 2.24, I don't even have it up.
He himself bore our sins in his body on the cross, that we may be dead to sin and alive in righteousness.
By his stripes, we have been healed.
Dude, he took it all.
He took it all.
Sickness is to the body what sin is to the soul.
And he took it all for me.
I just have peace in knowing what lies ahead.
We should be talking about heaven more.
What an honor.
What a blessing.
How exciting.
I'm just at perfect peace with how everything's gone.
I'm deeply satisfied with every pain.
Yeah, satisfied.
I heard this great analogy.
I was into a sermon when I was on the bike.
You know, being 16 weeks into Ironman prep right now, I've spent over 130 hours on the bike.
Spent a lot of sermons, a lot of worship in there.
And I heard this analogy this past week, that I thought was just so powerful.
And it was this pastor describing.
I can't remember exactly who it was, so I'd love to credit him, but I can't remember.
People ask the question, well, don't I go to heaven if I'm just a good person?
And he used the analogy, say you walk up to a random person's house.
You don't know who lives there.
They don't know you.
And you say, hey, can I come I'm here, I want to live here.
And they say, this is my house.
Yeah, but like, I'm a good person.
So you can trust me.
I want to come live in your house with you.
And they say, no, get out of here.
Absolutely not.
Vice versa you go to a relative's house, someone that you really know and trust, and they trust you.
They know you, you know them, you have an intimate relationship.
You walk up to that door, knocking on the door.
Hey, brother, I'm here.
I want to live here.
Oh, what happened?
Oh, I need a place to live.
Yeah, come on in.
Absolutely.
It's an intimate relationship that allows them to come live in that house, not just because they are a good person.
And then the second analogy that was used in the sermon was you know, God calls up a buddy and says come on over to my house.
I want you to come live here.
And his buddy, he, God knows where he lives.
His buddy doesn't know where God lives.
So his buddy starts his driving around everywhere looking for the house of God, but he can't find it.
And God says, well, I gave you the directions.
You know you, you go straight on North on main street.
You turn left on Elm, you hook a right, you make.
I left on Sycamore and my house is there.
God gives us the directions to his house.
But so many people ignore the directions of how we get there.
The direction is right in front of you.
It is the scripture.
It is prayer.
It is faith.
So it's the two things that God is calling us to do to get to his kingdom.
Have an intimate relationship with him and his son, Jesus Christ, and follow the directions that he has laid out for us together.
And those two analogies shared, I share with my wife, we're like, oh, that is so powerful.
That is gold.
So it's two things that people will ignore and skip.
Yeah, that's a good word.
It's a good word.
I think too often we forget that God's the one who's driving that car.
Dude.
Well, well said.
We all want to drive it though.
We think we're driving it, but he is.
That's such a good point.
You know, instead of me, like God's like, I'm holding the wheel.
Why are you trying to grab the wheel?
He's like, it's almost like I'm in the passenger seat.
Sometimes trying to lean over across the dash to like crank the wheel this direction.
And he's like, why are you grabbing the wheel?
It's like, you're in my car.
I'm driving it.
I'm the guy.
Yeah.
Just sit tight in the passenger seat and just be happy that you're in the car with me in the first place.
Man.
Well said.
That was a good call there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like, dude, we're going where we're going.
It's fine.
We're going to get there when we get there.
We're going to a place that I've already carved out for you.
So don't worry about where we're going and when we're getting there, just sit tight and just be happy that you're in here with me.
And so like I'm sitting here, yeah, it's like, I'm just happy to be in the car with him.
And that's how I feel right now.
Well brother, I appreciate what you're doing and it's amazing to just see how God's working on your life and how you are being a witness to his word.
And for 22 years old, you've gone through a lot.
You've experienced a lot of suffering, but you are so wise for it.
I mean, it's obvious.
God is doing some.
He's doing some work in your life and he's working through you.
Do a lot of great work here on earth.
So I appreciate you, brother.
Me and this team and our family, we're praying for you.
And I'm very fortunate to have had the opportunity to sit down with you and have this conversation.
Thank you, Nick.
All right, man.
Dude, you're so awesome, bro.
Thank you, dude.
I appreciate you.
I'm so encouraged by like your faith.
And we're just saying that like, we need more voices.
We're just real people with real faith experiences.
I'm so encouraged by just the outward proclamation of your faith.
And dude, God's working so big for you right now.
Oh, I can feel it.
I'm not the same person I was a few months ago.
I'm not.
And I don't recognize the person that I used to be for all the best reasons.
For all the best reasons.
What are your desires?
Like, where do you want to go?
Wherever he wants me to go.
Yeah.
You know, I think for most of my life I've tried to put myself in the driver's seat and take control of the wheel and feel the need to get myself there on my own.
But right now I'm just being patient.
And I can feel God working in my life.
And it's very exciting because I know this next chapter of my life is going to be such an adventure, because I'm doing it through God's will.
I don't know where that's going to take me, but I know it's going to take me amazing places, places that I never imagined or would have expected.
And that's what's making life so exciting right now.
I don't know what I'm going to be doing next year or in three years, or in five years, but God's got a plan and I'm going to be obedient and I'm going to surrender everything.
And it's going to be a wild ride, but it's because of him.
It's going to be beautiful.
Like looking back.
Like he's telling you to like walk with a compass and not a map, you know.
Like he's telling you just to like got this compass which makes you surrendered.
And he's like, dude, just follow, follow north.
Follow north and just keep walking.
A map, like you said, it's just like, it's just going to direct the thing.
There's no real faith involved, but the faith comes when you see this direction of straight north.
To have the faith to go,
And, like you just said, when you look back you're going to be like that course that we just got, that we just went on, is so beautiful in the end.
But only he knows.
And I just like to just sit in the reality that, like what's to come is in, it's going to be far more beautiful than we can even understand right now.
One of my favorite verses right now is Ephesians 3.20.
I think this could be a really good one for you.
It says Now to him who is able to do far more abundantly than all we could ask or think, according to the power at work within us.
Can you read that again?
Now to him, who is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us.
Yeah.
Dude, he is so able.
He loves to like.
He loves to take our faith And then like, produce things from that that you like, didn't even know were possible.
Like you're going to take one step of faith and he's going to take that 10 miles.
You take two steps of faith.
He's going to take it.
Like there's no telling what he can't do.
And he thinks bigger than you do.
He thinks better than you do.
His plans are bigger and beyond you. even the good plans that like we think that we have.
Like your goals for BPN for, you know, now until 2030, I'm making something up.
Like his plans are incomprehensible better.
And it's pretty cool just to think about.
That's why I have so much trust and confidence for the future.
Because I've put that trust and confidence in him.
You know, it's not just me carrying the yoke on my own.
It's alongside of him.
And that's why I know the future is bright.
Very, very bright.
All right, brother.
Now it's time to sauna, cold plunge, train.
Let's go.
I appreciate you, man.
Thanks, Nick.
Thank you so much.
Love you, brother.
Love you.
