All right, today on the podcast, we have back for a second time, Pastor Lyle Phillips out of Nashville, Legacy Church.
What's up? Let's go. We're back. Run it back.
Round two. So good to have you back, man.
Thank you, bro. So remind me why you are in Austin, Texas right now.
I was here preaching last night at a church in Round Rock called Oasis.
The pastor of that church, I served for a couple of years in my early 20s.
It's a big blessing to be invited back. Feels like I'm coming back home in a sense because this is a pastor that took me to Africa, to the Philippines.
He took me all over the states preaching and exposed me to ministry, which is what I'm doing now.
What'd you talk about there last night? I talked about surrender, bro.
Surrender. I talked about surrender like a switch in your spirit.
I use this phrase. The same state in which you are saved is the same state that you're called to live in. surrender because none of us got saved.
None of us became a Christian because we figured God out.
We didn't study the world religions enough to mentally assent to Jesus.
We got saved because one day we surrendered.
We waved a white flag and we say, I give up trying to do this life all by myself. know what I'm doing.
I don't know how to do this. God, I give up.
I accept what you've done for me on the cross.
I surrender. And so my premise is that the same state in which we are saved is the same state that we're called to live in.
We're never supposed to turn the surrender switch off.
But unfortunately, what a lot of Christians do is that after they get saved and they're on fire and they're radical for about nine months, They turn that surrender switch off and rather go back to what they were doing before they were saved.
They just warm the bench in a church somewhere on a church pew.
Well, now I'm curious. There's been two words that have been on my mind recently.
One is surrender. Yes. The other is obedience.
Yes. When people get saved, do you think it is That people reach a point where they lose hope in whatever it is they were searching for.
Mm-hmm. and they realize that the one truth is God, or is it that God reaches down and says i'm going to save you yes which one is it i think it could be both I think it could be both.
Ultimately, we can't save ourselves. So it's not me coming to a place where I determine, okay, now is the day where I give my life to God.
None of us get saved because we give our lives to God.
Like we say that, but all of us got saved because God gave his life to us.
God became... jesus son of god came gave his life on the cross for all of us and uh we have the privilege after being confronted with the gospel and what Christ has done with us of accepting or rejecting that.
And so I believe that it all starts in him. and then we are given the opportunity to accept it or deny it I love that So what is the guidance for people who are nine months in from being saved to... resist turning the switch off.
Yes, yes. So my encouragement in that is to remain, another one of your words, obedient.
I think the reason why a lot of Christians complain of boredom is because they've turned the surrender switch off.
As a pastor, one of the things that I do all the time is I get coffee with people, right?
So I'm sitting across the table. And a lot of times people are saying to me, pastor, I'm bored.
And I'm, what are you bored of? Well, I'm bored of being a Christian.
Really? Tell me more. Well, I'm bored of Bible study.
I'm bored of prayer. I'm bored of evangelism.
I'm bored of church. And I'm like, okay, well, actually, I don't think you're bored.
I just think you're disobedient. Because it's impossible to be surrendered and complain of being bored.
Because when you turn that surrender switch off and you say, yes, Jesus, I will do whatever you ask me to do.
I will go. go wherever you tell me to go, I will do whatever you tell me to do, then it's impossible to be bored.
That right there is when I think a human is able to really truly tap into adventure.
I tell people all the time, if you want to have an adventurous life, yield to God.
Because as soon as you say yes to Jesus, your life will get really festive really fast.
Mm-hmm. And that's been my story, Nick.
Like when I yielded to God, when I surrendered to God, see a lot of people, they're Christians, but they don't surrender because they're afraid of what God may ask them to do.
So like a lot of Christians avoid prayer because they're afraid that God will ask them to become a missionary.
A lot of Christians avoid prayer because they say, oh, I read the story of the rich young ruler.
And what if he asked me to give away some money? oh my God, I can't do that, right?
And so I think that's one of the reasons why we turn in obedience for religion.
And we're like, I'm a Christian, you know, I do the thing, I'm a good guy.
But at the end of the day, they know where their heart's at and that surrender switch is turned off.
But when you turn that surrender switch on, like your life can get wild really fast.
It's what caused me to move to India. And I think you know this part of my story, but I lived in the third world for four years straight, bro.
And when I moved there, I had no running water.
I had an outhouse. My house had no power except for four hours a day.
And I bought a fan from the market, put it up on my ceiling so that I could have a little bit of air. whenever I slept.
And that's where surrender took me. And I think when people hear those stories, they say, well, I don't want to have that.
I don't want God to call me to a place where I have to live in a concrete box with no indoor plumbing.
I don't want that. So I'm just going to resist.
I'm going to keep that surrender switch off.
But if they would listen to the entire story, then I could tell them I was happier in that concrete box.
Because I knew I was obedient to Jesus and I was doing what he had called me to do.
And I knew I could be proud of that on my deathbed.
And so I was having more fun doing that than I was resisting him sitting in a comfortable church in America.
So for me, that was what surrender looked like.
But I think surrender takes on its own unique expression with everybody.
I was recently listening to a book. So the last couple of books I've read Practicing the Way by John Mark Comer.
And then The All of God, John Bevere. And then I'm reading right now, For some reason, I keep forgetting the name of this and Steph gives me so much crap for it.
It's not, oh, the Circle Maker. Yes, Mark Batterson.
Yes, Circle Maker. And in one of these books, I can't remember which one because I've just read all three of them.
There was a survey done, I believe in the United States, and it asked people if they consider themselves Christian or not.
And I believe... don't hold me to this quote, but I believe it was 65% of the people consider themselves Christians.
And then it went deeper. Who considers themselves... obedient in the scripture, surrendered all in with Christ.
All in. And I think it was like 5% of that 65% of the people And before we started recording, I was sharing with you, I used to sit in that 65% bucket where I consider myself Christian.
I had one foot in, one foot out. And I watched these people in my life who were all in.
And I just, I couldn't relate to it. I didn't know what it felt like.
I didn't know what it looked like. And I wanted to get there.
And I thought that I just shared this in the YouTube video we just made live today.
I thought a relationship with God was passive.
And I thought it would just happen on its own.
And one day it would just... And I was waiting for that day.
And I've learned in this process that it is an active relationship.
You have to put in work. I've been a huge... proponent of like hard work for the last decade plus of my life.
And I know that the work you put into something Equals the return or the outcome that you get from that work.
And I've applied that to building a business.
I've applied that to all these fitness preps and endeavors.
I know that the work you put in will determine the result, the success, the accomplishment, the finish line, the goal, all those things.
Yes, sir. But for some reason... I never took that same lesson and applied it to my faith.
And then when I surrendered, I went all in.
I made that decision. I denied myself. picked up the cross and follow Jesus Christ, my life transformed so quickly and dramatically As I was explaining to you, I don't feel like I am the same person.
My wife looks at me like you are the same person, but like...
You're different. You're different. I've been praying for this version of you for so long.
And now I know what it feels like to be part of that 5%.
Yes. And it's so clear. And as I was explaining to you earlier, the truth was sitting in front of me this entire time.
And I was avoiding it. I read every self-help book.
I listened to every podcast. I was searching for the answers of how to get from here to there. and If I'm being very honest, those books and those resources helped me get to where I am today.
Of course. Yes. They were valuable along this journey.
But there was always something missing. There was always like this piece of joy and fulfillment and purpose that... always felt a little empty.
And I was trying to fill it with more things, more things, more things, more accomplishments, more success.
And I could never fill that space that bucket that seemed to have a leak in it until I went all in and turned her to God.
What would you say to the 65%? Now that you've crossed over into that, I am all in.
Like, I'm just curious, like what would be your message to the old you?
You don't know what you're missing. Wow.
You don't know what you're missing... because you haven't made the commitment to go all in.
And I promise you all the things that you're Think if I was speaking to old Nick, all the things that you were looking for, all these books that you're reading, all these podcasts you're listening to, this void that you're trying to fill with every other thing, the answer is right in front of you.
And it's this book that you're not willing to open up and read.
Now that I have the Bible open up and I'm reading it, it is so clear.
All the answers are right there. Right there.
I was listening to this podcast this podcast and I think this is where I want to take the conversation next.
I'm going to jump around a little bit, but of course, uh, I read the book, The All of God by John Brevere.
And it's all about holy fear and the fear of God.
Yes. And this is one of my... my awakenings that I've recognized of where I was missing.
And I heard this quote, it said, "'Weak Christians or weak men,' fear God too little and man too much.
Strong men fear God and not man. And I read this and I sat in this and I thought about Over the course of the majority of the last decade, I've done a lot of things in fear of man or other people to feel relevant and praised and accomplished in the eyes perspectives and thoughts of another individual.
Yes. I've been fearing the wrong one. And it's putting all the fear in the Lord.
And that... That just understanding made so... That put me at peace.
That took all the weight off my shoulders of, oh, I'm not... supposed to live for anyone but the one and only.
Yes. That felt so good to realize. Well, that's so powerful.
And there's nobody better at articulating what the fear of God is than John Bevere.
I mean, his book, The Fear of God. is probably one of the most important reads that I give to young people whenever they ask me about how to walk out this relationship with the Lord.
And I think it's so important that we fear God.
And I think a lot of people get caught up on that word, like fear, I'm supposed to be afraid of God?
And I love what John Bevere says. He says, in the Old Testament, the fear of God is the fear of being close to God, like, oh, God is so holy.
He's so big. He's so powerful. He's so distinct and different that I'm afraid of getting close to him because of what might happen.
And I think a lot of people still feel that way today.
But John goes on to say in the New Testament, the fear of God, it looks a little different because it's, us being afraid of being away from him.
It's no longer like I'm afraid of getting close.
It's now I'm afraid of being away. I want to be as close as possible.
Because I know in proximity to him is everything that my soul needs.
Yeah. When you mentioned earlier the switch, the surrender switch.
Yes, yes. For me, when you said that, the first thing I thought of was holy fear, the fear of God, because...
My fear of God is that surrender switch being turned off.
Now that I feel it, Yes. I don't want to lose it.
That's right. And that put a lot of perspective into what... the fear of God is.
I think when I first heard that term, fear of God, I thought to be afraid of God.
Of course. How do you help you understand there's a difference between being afraid of God and having the fear of God?
Yeah. I usually just trade the word fear for respect.
And so I say, look, you got to have a healthy respect of God.
And when you encounter God, the fear of God is a natural byproduct of that. because when you're encountering the God of the Bible you become keenly aware of how big he is and how small you are. how holy he is and how sinful you are, how majestic and wonderful and incredible he is. and how filthy and disgusting I am, right?
Which is why I need to have encounters with God.
I need to have fellowship with God. I need to have communion with God. through the word, through prayer, through worship, through teaching, all of those things.
I need that so that I can have that healthy respect because my, If culture has its way in my life, then I become in a sense kind of inoculated with the doctrines of the day.
And I go about living, calling myself a Christian when in reality, I don't actually respect God at all. because I hear a message on Sunday and I'm like, good word, pastor.
But then I go out on Monday and do whatever I want.
You know, I'm confronted with the scripture in the Bible when I'm reading it.
But I'm like, oh yeah, that was for that time.
And it's not for me, despite the fact that I am feeling, knowing, I need to be obedient to this.
Nah, no big deal. Moving on. That right there is a lack of the fear of the Lord because it's a lack of respect.
Whenever I call Jesus Lord, I am no longer allowed to tell him no.
If he's truly Lord in my life, like he's Lord, right?
Like Paul in the New Testament calls himself a slave to Christ.
And that's crazy language for us today, but he's looking at God with such a reverence, such an awe, such a respect, such a fear.
He's saying, I'm like a slave. If he tells me to go here, I'm going there.
If he tells me not to go there, I'm not going there.
If he tells me to say this, I'm saying that.
If he tells me to walk away from this, I'm walking away from that.
And that might be a good thing. It may not necessarily be.
Something that scripture says is outright sin.
But if it's something that I sense in relationship with God that is going to allow any distance between he and I, I reject it.
Interesting. That's the fear of the Lord.
Yeah. Because people will try to convince you all day long because your surrender makes them uncomfortable.
That what you should actually do is turn the surrender switch off. and trade that in for this nominal lifestyle of being a churchgoer so that that way they are not put off by your obedience.
Because whenever someone is obedient in their friend group, everybody else who's disobedient gets a little upset because they're like, hold on, wait, you are exposing the fact that my surrender switch is turned off.
That was cool when we were all hanging out and we were being like cultural Christians.
But now that you're saying yes to Jesus with the hard stuff, Not just like one Sunday every four weeks stuff.
Like, hey, chill, bro. Chill. Because now I'm getting convicted.
Now I'm being provoked. Like, hold on, wait, let me examine my own life.
Maybe I'm not as on fire as my Facebook feed says.
And I think a lot of people fit into that category in America.
Is that the cultural Christian? Yeah, the cultural Christian, bro.
The 65%. To be honest, that's all I thought ever existed.
I thought that's what being all in was. Until I saw the other side.
Yes. And I was told because I'm surrounded by a lot of obedient, faithful followers of Jesus.
Yes. I was told by all these people that I love and respect Now that you feel this and you start to share this, this is not going to make your life easier.
This is going to make your life harder. And I was like, what do you mean?
I didn't understand that at first. Now I know what that means.
Yes. I can feel the pushback. That's right.
I can feel how it makes others uncomfortable.
I can feel and experience spiritual warfare.
That's right. Which is real. It's real. And I understand now that it gets harder because that is one component of it.
But also when... You live and do things by the will of God.
He's going to ask you to do things that aren't part of your plan.
That's right. You know, earlier you mentioned...
Like the difference between fear of the Lord and being afraid and being afraid of getting too close.
Yes. I'm assuming that you mean when you get too close, you don't want to hear what God sometimes is telling you to do.
Exactly right. You're afraid of what he's going to obliterate in your life that you're clinging to as part of your identity or your comfort or your convenience or whatever that might be.
And it's whatever is in between you and him, he's coming for it.
He's a relentless lover. You know, he loves you.
He went to the cross for you. So anything that brings about distance between you and him, he's coming for that.
And that's what he wants, because he wants all of you, because that's what he gave his life for.
And he wants nothing less. He doesn't want a semblance of relationship.
He wants actual relationship. He doesn't want a picture of communion.
He wants real communion, real connection.
He wants that real, raw, unfiltered vulnerability with you.
Not just like this placating that we do and just by getting nostalgic about Jesus.
It's like getting nostalgic about Jesus is just the religious way of ignoring Jesus.
That gets my heart racing and so excited because it makes me realize that I can plan all I want.
I have no clue where this path is going to take me.
And when you fully surrender, it's like, take me wherever you want to take me.
That's right. It doesn't matter where you go because wherever you go is good when you're with him.
Yeah. But my heart's racing just thinking about...
The fact that I'm on this journey, I don't know where it's taking me, but I know it's taking me to great places.
That's right. In church yesterday, I heard, it's every character in the Bible, by the way.
What's that? They're following God. They don't know where they're going.
They just know they're going with him. True.
Abraham, hey, leave your dad, leave your hometown.
Follow me. I'm going to show you a city whose builder and maker is God, right?
David, hey, follow me. Go sling this rock at this giant.
You know, how's that going to go? I don't know.
It's kind of risky, but I'm with him. You know, Daniel get tossed in a lion's den.
How's that going to go? Seems pretty risky.
But if I'm with God, I'll be all right. Right.
Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego thrown in a fiery furnace like they're just following God and they end up there.
Right. Seems risky, but they're okay because there's a fourth man in the fire, right?
The apostle Paul, beaten, shipwrecked, stoned, all these things.
Peter, crucified upside down, crucified. grows up under the shadow of the cross the entire time.
A lot of people think that being involved with God is actually the safest thing that you can do.
And I would refute that and say it is not.
Because getting involved with God is actually not safe.
It's risky. God's not safe. God is good.
I love that. I love that. I used to think that I... knew exactly where my life was heading.
I had it planned out. I knew what milestones I had to hit to get to where I wanted to be.
And then since being renewed and transformed, I've thrown all that out the window.
Yeah. I had Chad right on the podcast recently.
I love him, by the way. Never met him, but I love him.
He is very... Committed, obedient, doctrinally disciplined man.
I have a lot of respect for Chad. Me too.
And he was telling me that one of the things he says in his prayer every day, that is now part of my prayer.
Let's go. He says, Lord, please conform me to the image of your son, Jesus Christ, at all costs.
At all costs. And I say that now, come on.
And when I say it, I say that last part twice.
Cause I'm like, you take it all from me.
If you want empty, empty me. Yes. To fill me back up.
That's right. And that for me has put all these things into perspective.
I can't ask that I want the grace and guidance of God, but then hold on to these other pieces and not give him grace. everything.
And since doing that, I feel light. I feel at peace for the first time in forever.
In church yesterday, celebration church with Pastor Joe Champion, One of the things he said is, if you commit your life to following Jesus Christ, you can not lose.
That's right. You can not lose. That's right.
I wrote it down. I leaned over Steph. Like, did you hear that?
It's like, we can't lose. We can't lose.
Nope. I just keep hearing these things.
I'm like, oh, it makes sense and it makes me feel so good and it makes me realize I'm now on...
The mission of what I was intended to be on and the purpose is so clear. this is it.
This is what I was searching for for so long.
I looked everywhere, but this is it. This is it.
It's just at the end of the day. Just Jesus.
Yeah. Just Jesus. You know what I love about Jesus is that whenever he calls us to follow him, He doesn't pretend that he's inviting us into anything.
He's not. And I think sometimes people are... like a little hesitant to follow Jesus because they don't know what that will mean.
But if you read the scripture, you'll see it's right there. whenever he invites his first followers to himself, Andrew and Peter, he says, follow me and I will make you fishers of men.
He tells us right there. Step one, day one, first moment.
Follow me. And if you choose to do that, we're going to have a relationship.
That's what follow me means. You want to have a relationship with God, follow Jesus.
There's no other way to God aside from Jesus.
That's what he says. That's what Jesus says.
I'm not saying that's what Jesus says. There's no other way to God, no other way to the Father except through the Son.
Christ Jesus. So he says, follow me and enter into a relationship and I will make you.
That's the next part. That's discipleship.
So this relationship is not just one of come, let's be BFFs, but no, come take my yoke upon you, which is his teachings.
I'm going to disciple you. And that's the glorious thing about the gospel is he says, follow me and I will make you, not follow me and then you make yourself.
And I think one of the things that you hit on earlier is something that all of us do from time to time, but many in our generation do incessantly is that they work on themselves. so much while trying to follow Jesus.
And it's good for us to work on ourselves, but ultimately Jesus takes supreme responsibility to transform me into the person he's called me to become.
Follow me and I will make you. Not follow me and then you go make you.
You go figure it out, buddy. You know, good luck with that.
Try to transform yourself into God's image.
It's not going to happen. Right. Follow me and I will make you.
The third part is a fisher of men. Right.
So that's evangelism. That's missions. That's being on God's mission with God.
And so what I try to tell people all the time about the surrender switch is that if you're not fishing, you're not really following.
Because Jesus said, if you follow me, I'm going to transform you into a fisherman.
And so this is what I love about your story, bro, as you're being bold to share. the platform God's blessed you with and the conversations you're having, you're saying, hey, I'm following Jesus and this is the byproduct of that.
Let me tell you about my life. Let me tell you about Christ.
Let me tell you about what's available for you as well.
You're fishing. And I think that that right there is probably one, if not the most primary marker of what it looks like to have that surrender switch on.
Because my spiritual life is personal. but it's not supposed to be private.
So it's when I'm coming to that place where I'm saying, I'm going to share.
I'm going to share with others. I'm going to share the gospel.
I'm going to let them know. I'm going to testify.
The people who testify are the people who are witnesses.
People who've actually seen something. And so all that to say, bro, is that's what I see in the gospels, Christ doings.
Follow me, unbroken fellowship, and I will make you consistent discipleship and then empowerment. unto life's mission.
And we don't know where that will lead us.
That may lead somebody to a boardroom. That may lead somebody to become a dentist today.
That may lead somebody to you know, be a coach.
That may lead somebody to start a podcast.
And that's okay. Like in Christianity, you can...
You can be and do and all kinds of different stuff.
Because one thing that's unique about Christianity is that Jesus does not require you to, you know, light all the rest of your desires on fire and leave them.
He requires you to reorder your desires.
So that you can still have desires as a Christian, but Christ needs to be the first desire.
And when he's in front of the line, everything else gets ordered.
I think that's one of the things that like as we're touching on this is like a lot of people are afraid.
I don't want to follow Jesus because, you know, I really like to do these things.
Yeah. Well, Jesus is not, he's not telling you, okay, well, you can't like that anymore per se, unless his word says that you need to walk with him and allow him to correct your thinking on a thing.
But he's not saying, hey, I want you to abandon all of your desires.
No, he's saying, I want you to reorder your loves.
That's what the church theologian Augustine said. reorder your loves.
It's about having Christ first. It's about him in supremacy.
And, you know, I feel like I'm going on too long about this now, but maybe that's what you're experiencing as part of the 65%.
Like you had a list of loves and Jesus was in there.
It just might be fourth or fifth or, you know, got my wife, got my kids, you know, got my my fitness and my business.
I think a lot of Christians, that's where they are.
It's not that they don't love Jesus. It's not that they don't have a desire to follow Jesus.
It's just, he's not first. Yeah. I relate to that a lot because what held me back for so long was just that I would take an audit of my life I'd say I have my business.
I have my marriage. I have my kids. I have my fitness. ambitions and goals.
I have these social media platforms. My schedule's full.
Where am I going to... Where am I willing to sacrifice energy and time to give God some more priority?
Right. I was like... For the longest time, I don't have room.
Yeah. I don't have room for anything else.
So I didn't make room. And then it slowly just ate away at me more and more and more.
And as I've reordered my priorities- The truth is that I haven't had to sacrifice anything.
That's right. Everything has been strengthened because of it.
I'm in this Ironman prep right now. I'm enjoying this Ironman prep more than any other fitness prep I've done.
Ever. Let's go. My marriage is stronger than it's been since before we got married.
I'm spending more time with my family and my kids on the weekend, for example, I used to be a miserable person to be around on the weekends because the lullness of not striving and doing something would drive me crazy.
And Steph would see it and feel it. I was the type of person who even on the weekends had to go, go, go.
I wanted to be busy. I wanted to be hurried.
I wanted to be rushed. Yes. Now on the weekends...
Steps like, what are we going to do this weekend?
What do you want to do? Let's just, let's just chill at home with the family.
Let's do nothing. It's amazing. Let's do nothing.
I'll knock out my run early, get all my training done.
Let's just sit by the pool and hang out.
Yes. In a complete peace. You know, as a pastor-
How do you measure success of what you are doing within your work, within the teachings, within church?
What does success look like for you? So I'm going to kind of harp on something we've been hitting on a lot, but this is a phrase I use a ton.
Success for any of us is the same. It is simply obedience to God.
If I'm obedient, then I'm successful. Because I think for a lot of pastors, they fall into the temptation of, well, unless I'm famous, like I have a notable platform, then I've not been successful.
Or unless I have a mega church and 10,000 people come to my church, I'm not successful. unless I plant so many churches or unless I start a school or unless I raise this much money, whatever it might be.
But at the end of the day, I think that what God's called us to do is not necessarily be successful.
God's called us to be faithful. So at the end of the day, I can't be caught up in... what anybody says is success aside from him.
And I think that's just being obedient to whatever he asked me to do.
If I am obedient, I am successful. Now I have things that I want to do, And in relationship with him, you know, I obviously speak that and tell him that in prayer, but I've also got the scripture.
And ultimately, my job is to be obedient to what God speaks to me, starting with the Bible.
So as a pastor, the first thing that I look at is what we call the great commandment. and the Great Commission.
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength.
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
That's the Great Commandment. And so I look at that first and foremost, I must be obedient.
Have I loved God? all my heart, all my soul, all my mind, all my strength.
Like I'm pushing towards that and I'm relying upon his help to do it because I can't do it in my own strength.
It's impossible. Without faith, it's impossible to please God, the Bible says, right?
So I'm relying on him. And then... loving my neighbor as myself.
That's also difficult, but I understand like I'm loving with borrowed love.
So I'm in prayer, God help me. I want to love people well.
I want to love my neighbor as myself. This could be somebody of another faith.
This could be somebody who's agnostic, somebody who's an atheist, somebody who's mean to me online.
Well, I'm sure that that happens to you a lot more than it happens to me.
But people love to say crazy stuff to pastors because they know we won't retaliate, right?
They know we won't say anything publicly back because we have to turn the other cheek.
Some people talk crazy to me sometimes on the internet, but that's what I'm looking at.
I'm like, okay, I'm looking at the great commandment.
And then I'm looking at the great commission.
The other great of Christ, which is Matthew chapter 28, go make disciples, baptize them.
Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. and teach them to observe everything that I've commanded you to do.
And I will be with you always, even to the end of the age.
So I know that anytime I step out to be obedient to Jesus, Jesus promises me his presence.
He said, I'm going to be with you. It's a co-mission.
It's a joint venture. So when I look at success for my own life as a pastor, I start there.
I start great commandment, great commission.
Am I in love with God? Am I giving myself to relationship with God?
Am I loving my neighbors? Am I loving other people?
And am I going and doing something about the faith that I've been blessed with?
You know, I always love to tell people two thirds of God's name is go.
G-O-D, go, make disciples, go. Go one more, go, right?
Go do something. Do something about what you say you believe in, right?
Go make some disciples. How do you do that?
Well, he tells you right there, baptize them.
You don't have to take somebody to your pastor in order to baptize them.
If they accept Christ, they believe in their heart, they confess with their lips, dude, put them in the hot tub, baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Teach them to obey everything I've commanded you to do.
Some people would think I can't teach the Bible because I don't know where to start.
Well, Jesus tells you where to start in the Great Commission.
What has he obeyed us to do? Just find one and share it with somebody else and let's pray together and let's try to obey this to the best of our ability and the grace of God.
Help us, God. We want to love our neighbor as ourself.
That being one. So for success for me as a pastor, bro, is like, I strive to keep it simple.
Because I think the more complicated that I let it become, the more likely is that I'm actually carrying a yoke that Christ has never put on me because he says that his yoke is easy and his burden is light.
And for a whole lot of pastors, as I'm sure the whole lot of entrepreneurs and business people is like, they're Christians, but if they were honest about what they were carrying, they wouldn't say it's easier light.
I say, dude, this thing is heavy. It is strenuous.
And there ain't no way I can take a day off on Saturday.
I got to get up and I got to do my thing.
You know, but what's interesting. Not to segue too much, but what's interesting is that whenever God creates Adam, right?
Adam's first day is God's seventh day, right? which is the day of rest.
So whenever God creates man, he doesn't say, all right, I've created, you get to work.
He says, okay, you've been created, take a day off.
And that's so subversive because that's just not the way that we've been trying to think.
But like going to heaven, enter into the rest.
So there's something to be said. And I see it on you, bro.
I mean, I see it on you. You're different from the last time I saw you in person.
It's like you're rested in your soul, man.
You're at peace on the inside. Do you think that's a problem right now in society and especially in The space that I'm in, entrepreneurial, productivity, athlete...
The go, go, go, go, go mindset and mentality.
No rest. Yeah. Reaching close to burnout.
Like how big of a problem is that? And then how do we fix it?
It's a huge problem in Christianity. You know, I think they call it like hashtag hustle porn.
Right. Like you get on you get online, you're like scrolling through looking at personalities like we're team no sleep.
Yeah. Grind till we shine, baby. No days off.
We getting after it. Well, that might be cultural, but it's not biblical.
And I think ultimately what you hit on a moment ago was, man, I read all these self-help books and they were helpful because they got me here.
But as I've read the scripture, I've realized, hold on, wait, there's nothing new under the sun.
The wisdom was right here the whole time.
And so my effort, Nick, is not to be like, Oh, I want to be really disciplined or I want to be this or that.
Sure, I want to be those things. But ultimately, I just want to be biblical.
So I think if you look at the scripture, the scripture is very clear about, you know, pace and... rhythms, and ultimately I just want to walk at the pace of grace.
And I think that if I am in a place where I believe that God is in such great need of me that I don't have time for a hobby, I'm pushing harder than he's asked me to.
Yeah. Yeah, one of the things I've learned since really diving into the scripture is how much emphasis is put on prioritizing our marriage.
Yes. And it is really... Me and Steph had sat down and had some deep conversations as we're both reading and exploring.
And Steph's been on this journey much longer than I have. and I don't think she'd ever think I'd get to this point and now she's she leans over to me every night before we go to sleep and she goes I'm so proud of you I say, tell me why.
You know, she goes into... Beautiful. Just like this transformation.
And... Beautiful. I'm learning... And just like realizing that, I've always said my wife was a priority, but not prioritized in the way that God tells us to put that emphasis.
We had a family meeting yesterday after church.
It's me, Steph, our two dogs, our one-year-old son, and our three-year-old daughter, Charlie.
And we had a family meeting and I said, you know, broad strokes and this family, God is first.
Me and mom are second. You guys are third, not last, not least, but third.
Yes. And then it's everything else. Mm-hmm.
And then we prayed over Charlie as she's about to go into her first day of school tomorrow.
Preschool. Sweetheart. I'm just like... Blessing her and asking for the blessing of courage and bravery and strength and confidence, all these things.
But it's made our family stronger. It's made Steph and I's relationship stronger so quickly just because we've reordered what we prioritize.
And allowing for actual rest. One of the things I've been saying recently is I want a busy life.
I want a busy and full life, but I don't want a hurried and rushed life.
And now I see the difference between those two things.
Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Full life is so much different than a long life even.
Like I want a full life. I want a long life too, don't get me wrong.
But I don't want a hurried life, but I want a full life.
And isn't that what Christ promised John 10, right?
I've come to give you life and life abundantly.
And that's the life I'm after. I don't want to live below the standard of what he paid for on the cross.
That's a full life. That's an abundant life.
That's a life filled with the fruit of the Spirit, filled with joy, filled with adventure, filled with exploration, filled with risk.
You know, he's the author and the finisher.
He's the author. He knows how to write a good story.
Becoming a Christian does not mean that your life will be exempt of drama.
Nobody watches a movie without drama. Yeah.
There's going to be ups, there's going to be downs, but he's the author.
And he's a finisher. And life will be full when you walk with him.
Some people tell me, well, my destiny is this.
And I'm like, oh, tell me more. Well, my destiny is to... make this amount of money.
My destiny is to build my company to this big.
My destiny is to be this influential individual.
I'm in Nashville. So my. destiny is to be on the voice.
My destiny, you know, is to be on American art.
My destiny is to have a Grammy. My debt.
And I'm like, okay, all right. I hear you.
I hear I, I, I mean, I love the ambition.
Like, I don't have a problem with ambition.
I don't like selfish ambition because the Bible says that's not good.
But like... When people are telling me all of these things that their destiny is, I said, no, no, no.
Your destiny is not a position. Your destiny is not an income bracket.
Your destiny is not a zip code. Your destiny is not a place.
Your destiny is a person. It's just Jesus.
If you walk in fellowship with Jesus, he will guarantee that you end up exactly where you're supposed to be.
That's it. Just faithfulness. You see, I used to think that being a Christian and being a believer was just to be a good person and get you to heaven.
I actually used to think And feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
I used to think that if you were a Christian, you went to church, you were a good person, you were automatically entered into heaven.
I thought... going to heaven was much easier than what now I think I understand it is.
From my understanding now, you have to be fully surrendered, all in, obedient follower of Jesus Christ.
It is not a lukewarm Christian. And to get to the kingdom is much more challenging than I think most people think it is.
Am I correct in saying that? I think so.
I mean, he said it's a narrow path, right?
Like ultimately at the end of the day, we are not saved because of anything we do, right?
Like we're not saved by works, right? No matter how well you perform for God, whether you do good or whether you do bad or whether you work hard or whether you don't work at all, at the end of the day,
Like we know that we cannot save ourselves.
It is only because of his grace and mercy.
None of us are good. Not one of us are good.
All have sinned. All have fallen short of the glory of God.
So unless Jesus gives his life to us and becomes the propitiation for our sin, the substitute takes our place on the cross, there's absolutely no way that we're able to get to God.
No way that we have access to heaven without Christ Jesus as our substitute, as our savior. without faith, without confessing, with our lips, believing in our heart, Jesus, you're my savior and I give my life to you.
No, it's not possible. However, that being said, once that point starts, then there is... works that we have been called into.
And that is to walk that narrow path. And if there's a scripture that haunts me, It is the passage where Christ said, many are gonna say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, Did we not do these great works in your name?
Did we not cast out demons in your name?
Did we not, you know, give me all this money in your name?
Did we not, you know, start these ministries in your name?
And he says to apart from me, you worker of iniquity, I never knew you.
Now that's crazy to do a whole bunch of stuff for God, but then God say, I never actually knew you.
You did all this stuff. You gave me your hands, but you withheld your heart.
Like you gave me your time, but like you refrained from giving me what was actually happening on the inside.
And that scripture haunts me. And so that is something that I would say about what you're saying, Nick, is like, man, at the end of the day, before I do a whole bunch of stuff for God, I just want to know God.
That word in the Greek is the word genosko, and it is an experiential knowing.
It's not an intellectual knowing. It is an experiential knowing.
It's an intimate knowing. It's a connected knowing.
Right? So that's how I want God to feel about me.
That's what I want him to say to me when I get to heaven.
I read that piece of scripture a few weeks ago.
Yeah. And when I read that, I had a pit in my stomach of, oh, this is like...
It's real. This is real. What is it? It's I do not know you.
Yeah. I never knew you. I never knew you.
I never knew you. In that moment thinking you're on this path.
Yeah. And you get to that moment and then you realize you weren't this entire time. of the ultimate judgment.
That's powerful. It's powerful. If that doesn't produce the fear of the Lord, I don't know what will.
Yeah. So Legacy, what are you guys working on right now?
Right now we're church planting, bro. Will this be your second church?
Yes. Yes, it would be a new location. When did you initially open up the one in East Nashville?
Eight years ago. Eight years ago. So we're eight years in.
God has been very kind to us. We started in East Nashville there on Main Street.
So not far from where you used to run quite a bit.
And then a few years after that, our church grew and we purchased another church building. that was about a mile and a half down the street.
And we've been there for the last several years.
And so The first one, that's our HQ. That's where we have our staff, our team, our schools.
We do some classes there. And then we have the church that you know of, Legacy Nashville.
They're in East Nashville. And now we are going to be planting another church in Franklin, Tennessee.
Do you have the land already? No, not yet.
We're looking at some. Okay. Yeah. There's one that I really like.
Somebody just sent me yesterday and I was like, I really like it.
And the reason I really like it is because they're putting in In-N-Out, like not very far.
I've heard about the In-N-Out in Franklin.
And I'm like, yo, how easy would it be to invite somebody to church?
Hey, come to my church. Where's it at? You know where In-N-Out's at?
Yes. Everybody knows we're in and outside.
So right now, man, we're church planting.
We're raising up leaders. I mean... Leadership development is something that you see in the life of Christ so much.
And I think it's something that churches often overlook.
Like, we just want to get you to come and sit in the seat.
And I always tell our church, man, I'm trying to get you from the seat to the wheat.
I'm gonna get you out there in the harvest field, man.
You know, the harvest is plentiful. The labors are few.
We don't have a harvest problem as Christians.
We have a laborer problem. And so I'm trying to raise up as many leaders as I possibly can.
And we're going to do that through church planting.
So that's where we're at right now, man.
I've heard there's a lot of new stuff going on in Franklin.
A lot of new stuff. Especially past Highway 96, if you remember where that's at.
Yep. Yeah. My buddy Joe Greer lives out there.
Bro, I really... I've never met him. I really like him.
And we have some good mutual friends. Yeah, you guys would really get along.
We need to connect. I should connect to you guys.
Please. But he was posting... Photos of this new coffee shop called Hank's.
Yeah. Franklin. Yeah. Yeah. All this stuff since we left.
Yep. All this new stuff. Is going in. We'll keep it warm for you, bro.
Whenever you're ready to come back, you know, come back for a visit.
We're coming back actually in September.
Let's go. And then I'm bringing the family out in December for a whole week.
Heck yeah. So I'd love to swing by. Let me know.
Would love that. Because we loved going to church there when we were out in Nashville.
Yeah, it's a great church. Yeah, there's energy to your church that was just... it was so alive and so electric.
And I, those people like get emotional and really like, Yes.
Like living it. A lot of people with that surrender switch on.
I could tell. And that was my first time being...
In an environment with people of such passion, with that surrender switch on.
Yes. And if I'm being honest, at first it made me a little uncomfortable.
Of course. I was like, well, I'm not there.
And like, what are they feeling now? Because I was always the person who sat in the back and kept to myself.
Of course. Never put my hands up. Of course.
Rarely stood up. Like... I was always uncomfortable in those moments.
Of course, me too, for a long time. And now when I see the passion...
I mean, when I'm on my bike here in the gym sometimes, I got worship music playing, I'm letting it rip.
I mean, like, Hands in the air. I'm yelling.
I'm screaming. Let's go. I'm feeling it.
Yes. I can feel... there's moments where I can like feel the presence of God with music, but then I feel the same thing in silence.
Absolutely. On a morning run, complete silence.
I hear things so vividly. Yes. One thing I wanted to share with you and we've kind of touched on this, but the prioritization of time and things, responsibilities, but also your energy.
Mm-hmm. You know, I've put a lot of my energy over the course of my life.
And also I was explaining this to you a little earlier into training, into fitness, into business.
And that would leave for very little energy at the end of the day for things like my marriage and my wife.
God. all of my energy was going to these few things.
And it got me here. And I'm very grateful and very proud of that. but I would be ignorant to say that putting that energy into those same things at the same amount moving forward after realizing the truth and being on this journey. that would be disobedience moving forward.
Yes, sir. So I'm in this Ironman prep right now.
Let's go. And And that requires a lot of energy.
Of course it does, right? We just made a YouTube video live this morning.
I, for years, said I would never do an Ironman in my life again.
And I was- When did you do your first one, by the way?
2019. How'd it go? It was good. I mean, I did 11 hours, 28 minutes.
Insane. I really didn't know how to train properly.
I was just... following this plan that wasn't very structured or specific.
And then in 2020, 2021, I trained for another one.
That training protocol, I had a coach. It was much more structured, specific.
I got in much better shape. I learned a whole lot in that process.
But that was before having kids. Training 20 plus hours a week requires a lot of time, a lot of energy.
Yes. There was this one morning... probably 10 weeks ago at this point.
And I just had this, calling to sign up for an Ironman.
So I went and did it. Did you tell your wife first?
I had the conversation with my wife afterwards.
Once I got approval from her, then it was locked in.
But something happens in my mind where I'm like, Well, if I don't sign up, what if it sells out?
And then Steph says, yes, and I go to sign up and I can't sign up.
So I thought I'm going to sign up just in case.
Of course. I'm going to reserve it. Of course.
And then have the conversation with Steph.
Yes. And at first she's like... This is not a time to be doing Ironman prep.
We have a one-year-old. We have a three-year-old. three-year-old.
Charlie's about to start school. The business is keeping you very busy.
Yes. we're trying to prioritize our marriage and all of these things.
I said, I'll make it work. I will make this work.
I just have, I'm being called to do this Ironman.
And there's some people that are probably going to hear that saying, come on, man.
You just want to do an Ironman. I'm telling you, I didn't want to do an Ironman.
I was fighting against it for so long. Of course.
I believe now that God was calling me to do this Ironman because he wanted me to spend 20 plus hours a week in solitude, in the word, in reflection, transforming into this new person, so that after this 18 week prep i come out the other side a brand new man a different man I'm in that transformation right now and I know I have 11 weeks left to prep.
When I come out of it, I'm going to be a completely new man.
Usually during these preps- I'm dead at the end of the day.
No energy, exhausted. Of course. Trying to just be zombie mode with Steph and the kids.
Yep. I haven't felt any of that lack of energy in this whole book.
And Steph has even made comments. You know, Saturday, for example, Saturday morning, I woke up at 4 a.m., ran 18 miles before the kids were...
Yeah. Got back. We had a full day. We had friends over for dinner that night.
Everyone left the house at 10 p.m. I had trouble falling asleep.
And... I heard on my run last week, this is before this 18-mile hour, I decided that morning not to take my phone with me, listen to any podcast or music or book or anything and just be in the silence and pray.
I heard vividly. I'm going to give you exponential energy in this prep.
Because I know you will be faithful and obedient afterwards.
I already know you're going to do this. So I'm going to bless you now.
I heard that on a run. Come on. Absolutely.
Dude, it's insane. Absolutely, you did. Come on, bro.
Praise God. Yes. That's amazing. I know.
I think running is one of the best places to hear the voice of God.
One of the best places. That's why I do all my praying.
Absolutely. You can, also, I think even scientifically it's supported because your brain is in that passive state.
So it's easier to be in a place where you can just listen for spontaneous thoughts upon the mind, as one guy said.
But I hear God all the time whenever I'm running.
I can't tell you, or prayer walking, Just go on walks.
Like some of the most significant words I've ever received have come when I'm walking.
And obviously it's all come to pass. So, you know, like you said, somebody may argue and say, You know, you didn't have a calling to do the Iron Man, just like somebody might say, well, you didn't hear that from God, but okay, well, look at the fruit.
Look at the byproduct of what I'm telling you I felt and knew.
I have more energy. And throughout this process of training for this Ironman, I'm a transformed individual.
That right there confirms to me Yeah, the Lord was calling you, bro.
And yes, he spoke to you. Yeah. Yeah, I know people... are going to try to find the, of course, the how.
Yeah. I've recently heard, don't look for the how, because the answer is the who or the what.
Yeah, come on. And... I don't feel like I have to defend myself.
I know what I'm experiencing. I'm just sharing it.
I'm not in a position to defend. It is what it is.
And if someone doesn't believe what I'm saying, that's okay.
That's okay. That's okay. People will be bad at me for things I've said, bro.
And they won't even be people who are like... not Christians.
They will be leaders. They will be pastors.
There'll be people who are like, well, he should have said this, or he should have said that.
I mean, everybody's always got a critique, but back to what you said, man.
I want to fear God, not man. Just want to be obedient to God.
Who cares what people think? I'm not checking for their opinions when I already have a word.
Yeah. Yeah, there was a... The team was having this conversation last week and there were these group of individuals online that were attacking BPN.
Oh my gosh. And they go on more mission.
Yeah. And this is the first time I did this and it felt really good to do this because the team that I was speaking to, And I was speaking about this, very strong believers.
Yes. And I walked out and I was like, guys, don't let these people... like ruin your day or our mission or what we're working towards.
And I brought up Romans 12, 19 to 21. Let's go.
I said, Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God.
The wrath of God, for it is written, vengeance is mine.
I will repay, says the Lord. I was like, it's right here.
It's right there. It's right here. Don't let it... Vengeance is mine.
It doesn't have to be ours. It is his. Mm-mm.
No, man, just keep following him. You know, there was a guy recently online that was really mean to me.
And what I wanted to do was just like, just go after them Because I think all of us have that tendency on the inside.
It's like somebody says something mean to you.
But then what I decided to do was I was like, all right, Better wisdom prevails.
It's probably unwise for me to spend my day trying to respond to somebody who's been unkind to me online.
So why don't I kick off with just praying for the person? just praying for the... Like, I don't know them at all, but when I just... take what I do know and just pray for them and bless them and bless their business and bless their family and bless their kids if they have them and just pray for them and then try to tap into, okay, God, how do you feel about this person?
And then it makes it a whole lot harder to root against them after you've tapped into what God feels about them.
And he loves them. And then I'm not mad anymore.
I'm like, you know, like sucks that that happened.
And that was unkind. And I can be honest with my friends and my family and say that actually hurt my feelings.
And I feel sad about that. And I feel like that guy took that a bit too far, but let's pray for him.
And then I noticed that the anger subsides and I don't feel the way that I felt before.
And they might keep going. They may not.
I don't know, but I don't care. Yeah. What I'm learning through that too is it sets such a great example for your children as you're raising them.
Yes. You don't have to fight all your battles.
And you know, being in this, new relationship with Christ gives me so much confidence in leading my family And raising Charlie and Nico to be people... who like I'm so proud of and built off character and integrity and humility and generosity.
And yeah, all of these things that are Christ-like, it gives me so much hope and faith for their futures.
Yes. Come on, bro. You're a great dad. Thank you.
You are. And a great husband. I follow you and your wife on socials and I love to see what you guys do for your children.
It's very inspiring. I appreciate that. I know it's helping a lot of people.
I know it's helping me and my wife because we buy the things that your wife posts on Amazon.
The links and the playhouse and everything you've built for your kids, man.
You're a phenomenal father. And a great example to many fathers and many husbands.
I do feel a huge responsibility Which is why I need to do the men's thing at the ranch.
I want to get you involved for sure. Come on.
Yeah. Come on, bro. Yeah. I really want to do that.
You see what our homie Steve Weatherford is doing.
Yes. You know, I know you guys are connected because he's been on the podcast before.
Yep. I love what he's doing. And you see all of these men, bro.
Men today, they're not just looking for something to live for, man.
They're looking for something to die for.
They're like, dude, let me bleed for something, man.
Where's that warrior spirit? Where's that opportunity to suffer well?
Yeah. You know? I think man I think you got it on your life Nick When I signed the lease for the ranch, I knew there was a huge purpose there.
I didn't know exactly what I was going to do with it yet, but I knew there was a reason to build it out.
It's like build it and they will come. Yeah.
And it's all really starting to make sense now.
And I think there's a huge opportunity to do something on the ranch in that capacity.
But I feel this huge responsibility to share the journey that I'm on for men who are in a very similar position that I'm in.
They're professionally driven. They're athletically motivated and driven.
We want to achieve. We want to succeed. We want to raise our kids and our family to be individuals and people of character and integrity and humility and all of those things.
And now I want the foundation to be, we will do all these things and I'm going to share with you how I'm achieving all these things because I have this foundation this obedience and faithfulness to Christ.
And that's honestly why I want to use these platforms.
That's what motivates me to do podcasts and create YouTube videos.
It's, You know, it's much larger. The mission is much larger than I ever thought it would be.
And I feel that, that weight and that responsibility.
Let's go, man. Let's go, bro. Yeah. Let's go.
You've already done it in the fitness space for so many.
Just imagine how that will translate into the faith space.
And I get it, yeah, some people push back or whatever, but when you found life, it's like that passage, The pearl of great price.
You know, you find this pearl in the field.
It's like, man, I go sell everything and I buy the field. uh you know i see that you're walking in that you found that pearl you found that life that abundance of life And in the same way that you found ways in which you could train more effectively and the experience of doing these hundred mile runs and how you've inspired us all.
Bro, you're going to do the same thing with faith.
Bro, I started running because of you. Like I watched my dad run as a kid and I always wanted to run, but I never thought about doing a race.
Like my dad was always trying to get me to sign up for a marathon, but it was because of you, Nick.
Like that I was like, oh man, I'm going to start running.
And what in the world is a hybrid athlete?
Now you got everybody online talking about in their bio, hybrid athlete.
Well, that started with you, dog. I appreciate that.
Like you were the one that was like, I'm a hybrid athlete.
I do bodybuilding workouts and I run. And whenever COVID happened, I didn't miss a Nick Bear video, bro.
I watched every single one of them. And every single morning, I went out with my garment.
I ran seven to eight miles. And every single afternoon, I was in the weight room and I was lifting.
Bro, I have you to thank for that. I appreciate that.
Yeah. And you know, a lot of people have asked me, they've tagged me on socials like, hey, I heard you on the Nick Bear podcast.
How fast did you run your marathon? And I said, the last time I was on your show, I am going to run this marathon in under four hours because previously I had, you know, it was very sloppy race and I didn't actually train and I achieved it.
I achieved it. I was three, I think it was 354.
Oh, yes. So I did it. I got the sub four, sub four, which I know like-
We really need to go sub three and a half, sub three even.
I remember you said- I would love to train you.
I would love to train with you, bro. Yeah, I would love that.
If you would train me, I would get back into training.
I've been traveling so much this year that I've not been training as much as I need to.
Maybe we need to do it. Let's find a race that you want to do where you have time.
Yeah, absolutely. And we'll dedicate... Let's say like 15 weeks to a prep.
Yep. And we'll get you really fast and fit.
Oh, let's go. I would have so much fun with that.
Let's go. Let's do that for real. Let's do it.
I'm so down. You know, earlier you were talking about that people sometimes don't go all in and surrender because they're afraid of what God will ask them to do.
Yeah. Are there some things that come top of mind to you that God has asked you to do that you were like, come again?
Are you really asking me to do this? Yeah.
And then... You said yes and went and did it?
Yes. Can you share some of those? Oh, heck yeah, man.
I mean, I feel... I feel like that is in a sense kind of countless in my life.
And sometimes it's not the things that you would think.
Like, honestly, I think for a lot of people who knew me as a missionary, they would think that I sold out by becoming a church planner, but it was actually me surrendering. to become a church planter in the West.
I did not want to be in America. I wanted to die in India.
And that's where I started. And that was one of the things that I surrendered to doing.
I don't know if I've told you this part of my story or not, Nick, but whenever I moved to India, I moved because...
I sensed that that is what God was calling me to do.
So I moved to India with a focus on rescuing kids from human trafficking.
Did I tell you this the last time we were hanging out?
No, I don't think so. So that's why I moved to India.
I moved to India initially because I was doing some work and there was a CNN news report that was on in the background, and I just overheard it.
They said there are over 1.2 million child prostitutes in the nation of India.
Well, there's actually a lot more. I didn't know that at the time.
I just heard the news report. And I said to myself, you know, maybe God might be calling me to go and do something about that.
Now, I've never worked in that field. I don't have education background in that field or anything.
It was just something that seemed to like spark in my heart.
Kind of like you said, you saw the Ironman.
I felt called to it. You're like, hold on.
I kind of feel like maybe I should do this.
And so I started thinking about it and I was like, okay, God, if you're giving me a word, then of course I reflect on Matthew 28, go.
If God's not saying no, he's probably saying yes.
Why would he stop me from going to Winning Souls and trying to help kids involved in human trafficking?
And as I prayed about it, I sensed that that was what he was calling me to do.
Go over there and try to get as many kids as you possibly can free from human trafficking.
That's crazy. How old were you? Uh, 24. Okay.
Yeah. So I'm like, I'm single 24. I have no money by the way.
Uh, In order for me to get to Africa previously, God told me to take all the money out of my bank account and go put it on the altar at church.
Now, it wasn't that much money. Don't think of it as a huge sacrifice, but it was all I had.
And he told me, this is a seed that I want you to sow.
If you don't have enough to go, then take what you got and sow.
And so that's what I did. And by the time I was going to Africa, I had all the money that I needed.
He supplied the need. So when I moved to India, bro, I met a guy who knew where some children were being trafficked.
And I went there, he took me there. And I started to meet these children that were working in these rock quarries in central India.
And there were kids there as young as four or five years old, right?
They were loading buckets, little rock fragments and things.
And there were other kids that were in there. that were in the bottom of these rock quarries, slate rock mines.
And they were helping wrap chains around rocks and so on and so forth.
And they're being lifted up out of the out of the quarry.
And so I met these kids. And as I began to talk to them about their story, they told me like, My parents sold me into this.
Like I cannot leave this place. I'm being used as a slave throughout the day.
I'm not paid anything. That's wild. I'm working eight to 10 hours a day, 12 hours a day.
I get one meal a day a lot. I'm used as a prostitute in the night.
People are beating me. They're putting out lit cigarettes on me.
Like I heard these stories from little girls who did not know how old they were, Nick.
I thought maybe they're 12, 13 years old.
They're like, I don't know how old I am.
How long have you been here? I don't know how long I've been here.
I just know my parents sold me here. And one little girl in particular, her name was Anita.
And I said, do you have any siblings? She said, I do, I have three older sisters, but they're all dead because they've all committed suicide because we were all sold into this at the same time.
They've all killed themselves. So I met Anitha and I said, okay, I'm going to get you out of here.
No matter what it takes, I'm going to get you out of here.
So this is how I started ministry in India was with this girl, Anita.
So I left there. We received a message from the man who owned the mines.
He said, if you come back to this place, I will have you killed. never come back here again.
If you try to help these kids, I will have you killed.
If you come here and preach Jesus, I will have you killed.
He's a man of another faith and he was not happy about us going there and talking to her.
And I prayed that night. And I said, okay, I know this guy, he's got corrupt cops on the payroll.
He could probably make this happen if he was really bent on it.
What am I supposed to do, God? Am I supposed to go back there?
And I felt like the Lord spoke to me and said, you gave that girl your word, didn't you?
Said you're going to get her out. I said, I said, I was going to get her out.
And I told her I was a Christian. And he said, so go get her out.
I'm like, yeah, but bro said he was going to kill me.
He's like, you've been shot at before. My testimony, people used to drive by shootings on my house when I was a crack dealer.
He said, go get her out then. So I showed up the next day.
No one attacked me. No one threatened me.
Just talked to her again and we reached out to the guy and he had called us and we said, hey, we want to take this girl out.
He said, I told you never to come back. I said, yeah, but we gave this girl a word we were going to take her out.
He was like, you're not. Leave. Came back the next day.
Came back the next day. Came back the next day.
And we continued to come until finally he said, you know what, let's work out some terms where you can take the girl out.
Now that guy, he threatened our lives initially.
We ended up taking Anitha home with us. We were able to take her to the hospital.
She had HIV, AIDS. Fourth stage at the time is what the doctor told us.
She's, to my knowledge, still living today.
Praise God. put her in school, put her in a home.
She was able to stay with us there. We were able to take a little boy out.
So that was a moment in which it didn't seem like, hey, like risking it all on a word from God seems quite dangerous, but let's go for it because he's telling us to.
So we did it. and we were able to do what we went there to do, which was rescue this little girl.
Now that guy eventually, like a year later, bro, calls me because those same mines have been flooded.
There was a storm that hit India, the mines flooded.
And he said, I'm wondering if you could help me.
And I said, why do you want my help? He said, because I threatened to kill you and you came back.
And I've just never met anybody like that.
So maybe, because I know you guys are Christians, would you come and like show me some charity?
Because I've got all these people who work in my mines who are stranded.
All these mines are filled up with water.
Could you guys come with some boats and help me distribute some food and like washing powder for their clothes and like all this?"
He said, absolutely, we will do it. And again, Nick, I prayed and the Lord said, take all of your money that you have out of your bank.
All of your money. And at the time now, like I'd started a nonprofit organization.
I think we had like $30,000. He said, I want you to take all the money out of your bank, and I want you to make sure that this guy is able to meet the needs of these people, these people who are slaves.
I'm like, Lord, do you want me to give $30,000 to a guy who's an oppressor, to a guy who's a slave owner, to a guy who's a trafficker and do everything I can to help these people?
And what I sensed that God was telling me to do, take all the money you got and go help the people.
We did it. We went and helped the people.
After we were done, he said, why don't you come over to my house for tea because I'm very interested in talking to you.
This was a guy who had threatened to kill me like a year before.
He says, tell me what it is about you that would make you come back to a place like this and treat me with the kindness that you've shown me.
I said, well, we want to talk to you about Jesus.
This is why we're here. We prayed, we have the Bible.
We're just trying to live our faith. And he said, well, I would like to become a Christian.
This guy becomes a Christian, becomes our biggest donor.
And over the next several years, we empty out all of his minds of all the children that have been trafficked and are enslaved in those minds.
Wow. In just a few years, we rescued over 400 kids from human trafficking, child slavery, and prostitution.
Had we not went back after the man said, you'll be dead if you come back, but listen to God, then those kids still be enslaved.
That's incredible. What a wild way to spend your early twenties.
Yeah, my mid twenties, bro. Early and mid twenties, Africa, India.
That is absolutely incredible. I was just listening to this story in The Circle Maker. talking about how you have to view generosity in terms of your time and your money, not as addition and subtraction, but as multiplication.
Yes. And when you give everything, you will be blessed with exponential. return.
It's crazy. That's what I was thinking about when you were sharing that story.
Money to Jewish people is not like cake.
It's like a candle. And Don't think of... This is what a guy told me recently, because I asked him, I said, it seems that Jewish people are really anointed to be rich.
They're super rich, right? And he was like...
Don't think of it like that. Think of it like Jewish people that you know and you see, they're adhering to the word of God.
And the word of God has principles for how to steward your wealth.
And I read this book one time by Rabbi Lapin.
It's a great book, by the way. Can't remember what it's called right now, but if you Google that, it'll come up.
And he says, money is not like cake. It's like a candle.
Like, but when we think about sharing our piece of the pie, it means we'll have less.
He said, no, no, money's not like cake. It's like a candle.
The more you share. the more you're able to light the world.
And the more that comes back ultimately.
And I believe that that's true. And it's not true because it's karma.
It's true because Bible. Yeah. Given it will be given unto you.
Press down. Shaking together and running over into your lap.
Sort of a god of multiplication, man. Yeah, that description put generosity in a whole new... light for me.
Come on, man. And, man, there's just been a lot of things that I now, since being transformed, can look back over the course of my life, which I thought were just... these coincidences or things that happened to me, not for me.
And I'm putting all the pieces together now. thinking, oh, this all makes sense.
Come on. Like where I'm at right now, is not because I just had the vision and the work to get here.
It was all part of the plan. Yes. And what I'm going through right now is just another part of the plan. in these previous 13 years were a part of the plan to get me to this part of the plan for the next part of the plan.
Yes, sir. I'm loving what's happening. My mind's been blown recently.
I'm just very, very grateful and appreciative of, to have once been blind, but now see, especially at just this point, At this point in my life, my kids are so young.
Me and my wife, we will be celebrating five years of marriage in October.
Congrats. Thank you. I'm just really happy that I'm learning this and seeing this now.
As opposed to when I'm 75, 80 years old, if not ever.
And I can take this new approach into my life to serve the people that I love, but ultimately God.
Yes, sir. Yeah. I love it, bro. Wow. I appreciate you.
Oh, bro. I appreciate you. I really appreciate you.
And I've loved this conversation. Me too.
I've wanted to have this conversation. You were the person, I think, to really help guide it.
I love what you're doing in Nashville. Thank you, bro.
I love what you're doing in the space. When I'm back in Nashville with the family in September, in December.
Let's go. We're coming to Legacy. Come on, bitch.
Come on. But no, man, I'm just really grateful for you.
So I appreciate you. Likewise, Nick. You've been a great blessing to my life.
A great blessing to my life. I'll never forget the moment that we met at church and you were like, hey, we've been watching you on YouTube.
And I was like, yo, I've been watching you on YouTube.
I remember that. Yeah. I was at church with Dr. Axe.
That's right. Our homie. Yeah. Well, whenever you want to go for that marathon PR.
All right. Yep. Let's make it happen. All right.
You're going to train me. I'm going to train you.
All right. Let's go. One on one. Let's go.
All right, man. Thank you.
