#1044 - Nick Shirley - Inside Minnesota's $10B Childcare Fraud Scandal｜Modern Wisdom

Who were you on the phone to this morning?

A lot of people have been calling me.

I actually can't even keep track of all the numbers.

And so today I just got asked to go talk in front of Congress just a moment ago.

So people are just calling me saying, hey, we want some information.

Can you tell us about this?

We're just trying to gather information.

And for instance today, someone just called me and said hey, we have a meeting.

We'd like you to testify in front of Congress on January 21st.

So I'll see if I'll do that.

Right.

So it's starting to hit the bigger levels of sort of real law, real government now.

Yeah.

I mean, within just one day of me posting my video, well, it got over 100 million views in 72 hours.

But within the first day alone, you had Elon Musk retweet it.

You had JD Vance retweet it.

You had quite literally every major politician retweet it.

The next morning, Kash Patel puts out a post on X about it.

And then that same day, Attorney General Pam Bondi also puts out a post mentioning my name in that video.

Same day, Mike Johnson as well.

So it's spread across the entire internet and it's the most viral video the expose on fraud in Minnesota.

It's the most viral video by anybody not named Mr. Beast in an expose format.

Over 100 million views in 72 hours.

Did you end Tim Waltz?

I did end Tim Waltz.

He is no longer running for re-election of governor.

Tell me the story then.

So Tim Walz, everyone knows him.

He was almost the vice president of the United States.

And he has a record going on in Minnesota talking about fraud.

Ever since 2019, he's known about fraud.

He's been talking about how they've been fighting fraud.

And he's been enabling this fraud to happen.

And so I go and make this video.

And what happens?

I showed the fraud happening and you would think people would be like, oh, amazing.

This kid just showed that fraud's happening.

Instead, Tim Waltz goes on TV.

He calls me a white supremacist, calls me far right.

And he also calls me a delusional conspiracy theorist.

Are you any of those things?

No.

And so then Tim Waltz, after calling me all that, he drops out of running for reelection of governor.

So I was right.

I show people the truth.

And Tim Walz.

He couldn't handle it, so therefore he went to deflecting mechanisms of calling me far-right, delusional conspiracist and a white supremacist when I was just talking about fraud.

You think that the reason that he's not running for re-election is exclusively because of this story?

Yeah, 100%.

He knows the baggage so much that he can't run from it and he's hoping probably people would think less of it.

And so he's going to step aside and not run for re-election.

How much is he culpable?

Because Minnesota is a big state.

There's lots of stuff going on.

He had an election campaign to look after not long ago.

Is it his job to be paying attention directly to this sort of stuff?

He's obviously part of it.

There's obviously larger communities like the DHS inside of Minnesota.

What's the DHS?

The Department of, have the department of homeland security, but then you also have dhs that receives the money and they kind of give the money, money to welfare, medicaid programs, everything like that.

So not entirely unculpable then.

No, i mean his office kind of he's uh, he said himself the buck stops with him.

He said that multiple times and he's known about the fraud forever.

It is an interesting challenge, right.

Because you have some people.

Anybody that is running for office wants to show I've got agency and I make things happen inside of my state.

And it kind of sounds powerful, uber menschy to say the book stops with me.

But when it turns out that the book is kind of messy and on fire and deserves investigation, you become culpable for the promises that you've made in the past.

Yeah, and at the end of the day, he knows about, he knew about it.

He knows that there's daycares all around Minnesota.

He actually bragged about that in a debate with Tim Waltz.

He said, you can go visit him.

I visited him.

There was no kids.

Give me the story. from the start of how this came about?

So last June, every week for the past 100 weeks, I've been making YouTube videos about something happening in the US or other countries.

And so back last June I went to Minnesota to make a video about the rise of Islam, because I've heard how mosques were replacing Christian churches and how the Somali population was growing.

And so I wanted to go do a video on the rise of Islam.

And while I'm there, I'm talking with locals and, like nick, you have to do a video on the fraud.

There's these daycares these, there's these adult daycares, there's assisted living homes popping up right next door to us and they're all around by somalians.

You need to do a video on the fraud.

And i said well, i can't just come and just paint fraud to be happening and bring no evidence.

So i made my video about the rise of islam and i saw it firsthand.

I saw communities that had been overtaken by somalians.

Actually, me and my mom

My mom was my camera woman for that video.

She comes with me on a lot of trips.

We got jumped in Cedar Riverside.

They snatched the camera, and they threatened me and my mom.

Who's they?

Somalians inside of Cedar Riverside.

Because inside there they also have rivalry gangs and there's kind of a whole gang thing going on inside of these Somalian communities.

And so I knew there was something there.

And I went back home and I kept trying to do my own investigation to get down to the fraud.

And I couldn't really get the number specifically.

And then a man by the name of David, who's in the video.

He reaches out to me and he says Nick, I have all the information.

I've been researching this for years.

Why did he reach out to you?

Yeah, so he's been trying to get the story out for years.

But did he reach out to you before you did your documentary?

Well, he had seen some of my other videos on YouTube as well.

So he kind of just knew maybe this kid would be interested because he's been trying to get it from local people.

And local news has been reporting on the fraud for years.

So they've been reporting on it for years, but it's never blown up on a national level.

And this man, David, had all the numbers.

Somebody from inside the Capitol had given him the information on the CCAP funding, which is federal and state money that goes to these programs.

It's called, I believe, the Child Care Assistance Program.

So he had all the information and he said Nick, I have been looking into this for years and I have never seen a single child at one of these daycares.

And so we went and made this video about the fraud that was taking place.

When did you make it?

December 16th is when we filmed it.

Oh, wow.

So you really turned it around quickly.

Yeah, within just a few weeks.

Hmm.

And so I had no idea.

I thought we were just going to go to these daycares and I thought you'd be able to open up the door and go to the reception, receive a brochure for your child, and that the first daycare we go to it's one building that has two of the same daycares inside of it.

It was named Mako, and there was another one that's also inside of that daycare.

They had both been receiving money from the government, upwards of $5 million.

And it was strange because all the windows were blacked out.

The sign above it said open 7 am to 10 pm.

You open the door.

Nobody would answer.

You ring the doorbell.

Nobody answers.

And then a Somalian woman comes up and we're asking her, where's the kids at?

She says, I don't know.

I was like, what the heck?

Like, what's wrong with these daycares?

She came out of the... She drove into the parking lot and she went into a store next door.

And I was like, what the heck is going on with these daycares?

That was weird.

Okay, let's go to the next one.

Let's see what happens.

We go to the next one.

They also received a million dollars.

They're licensed for 40 children.

All the windows were completely blacked out.

I knock on the door, and I hear a lady talk.

And I said, well, hey, I'm trying to enroll my son, little Joey, into daycare.

And she's like, no.

And she wouldn't give me any more information.

And so you'd think that, even if they didn't want to talk with me, that they would maybe give you a brochure right, just to kind of show that they're actually a legit daycare and they're licensed for 40 children.

It's funny because then after that i can post my video.

Uh, local news cbs then tells that daycare they're going to go and they film a video and there's 12 kids inside the daycare.

Well, either way, not 40.

What?

It's still not 40.

Yeah, it's still not 40.

So what's the point of giving them a million dollars?

And so i believe that's fraudulent.

And then we go to the next daycare And this one had received 345 million.

Can I ask about where this is?

You mentioned Cedar Park.

Cedar Riverside, that's like the well-known community inside of Minneapolis.

But this video I filmed is all throughout Minneapolis and St.

Paul.

Right.

And so then we go to the next one.

It's actually right where George Floyd happened, just a few blocks away from it.

$3.45 million.

And this lady opens the door.

I kept all my security.

I kept other vans.

I put David kind of far to the side.

I was like, all right, we're going to have a genuine interaction.

I don't want anyone to make any excuses.

So this lady opens up the door and I say, hey, I want to enroll my son, little Joey.

And she says, no.

I'm like, well, can I at least get a brochure?

She says, no.

I said, well, would my son have friends here?

She said, no.

And there were no kids there.

No footprints in the snow.

And she was the only one there.

Broad daylight on December 16th, which I believe was a Tuesday.

There should be children inside the daycare.

What time?

We were there.

Hers was around 12, I believe.

And then also Quality Learing Center.

This one is so bad because they had received $1.9 million in They had over 90 violations, and they're just a few blocks away from downtown Minneapolis, just a few blocks away from where the Timberwolves play.

And their sign literally said, Quality Learing Center.

Like, imagine that.

You're trying to teach children to learn, but you can't even spell learning right on your son.

Hadn't that been incorrect for nine years or something?

For many years because they were originally inside on the road and then, And then they like cut out this door and they opened up a restaurant where Ihan Omar has photos of her outside that same restaurant.

And the owner also has photos with her and the mayor.

And the guy who came out saying that my video was false.

He has videos of him partying with the mayor of Minneapolis.

Like it's all intertwined.

And so there's all this fraud happening.

Millions of dollars are being given out to these daycares.

And then on top of that, you have adult daycares.

You have autism centers.

Adult daycares?

Yes.

What is that?

Adult daycares.

A place for adults to get taken care of.

People with special needs?

I don't know.

There's no one inside of them.

Okay.

How do you advertise an adult daycare?

What is it?

It's literally called adult daycare?

Adult daycare.

And then you have assisted living.

So that's kind of confusing.

You have adult daycare and you have assisted living.

Right, yeah, because they can't be the same thing if you've separated them out.

And if you've got stuff, because there's loads of stuff happening with autism.

Autism.

Yeah.

Like there was not just a random surge in autism, but there was an increase from 1 million to 200 million in funding.

For autism?

For autism.

In Minnesota?

In Minnesota.

$200 million?

Yes.

In 2024, there's $200 million.

Compared with?

I think in 2017, there's a million dollars.

Oh, wow.

So it's in, what, seven years?

Yeah, so just in a short period of time, it went from $1 million to $200 million.

Autism wasn't just springing up like that.

And you didn't need to prove that you didn't need a license.

It came out just the other day that the Biden administration opened up these systems and you didn't have to really prove much in order to get the funding.

And so a lot of people just took advantage.

Yeah, I think.

My first question is What is it about Minnesota, or Minneapolis in particular, and the bylaws and the small print which has caused this particular scheme to flourish?

It doesn't really make much sense why Somalians would go to Minnesota.

Somalia, the temperature and the climate is completely different than Minnesota.

I think people realize Minnesota is known for being Minnesota nice.

Everyone was accepting.

They brought all these refugees.

And it wasn't a problem until it became a problem.

And so then you get politicians like Tim Waltz and the mayor Little Fry over there who start panhandling to the Somalian community.

It's just a small percentage of the population there.

It's about anywhere from 80 to 200,000.

No one exactly knows.

The ranges are from 80 to 200,000 people.

So it's not a big number of people.

No, it's not.

But they go on to certain areas and they pretty much move out any other race or religion and it just becomes a Somalian area.

And so it's not.

So it becomes an issue when you don't feel like it's still your city or you don't feel like you're being represented by your politicians.

And so Tim Waltz and Ihan Omar, they kind of started panhandling to this group of immigrants, one for votes, and then also they attached on to the welfare programs.

I believe 81% of Somalians in Minnesota are on welfare.

89% of the fraud being committed by people inside Minnesota is by Somalians.

And then if you come out and speak against the fraud, you'll be called the white supremacist, like Tim Waltz did with me.

He'll call you far right.

He'll call you a delusional conspiracy theorist.

And so all this political correctness made it to where people kind of feel like they couldn't speak out.

That's why David, he had been trying for years to get the story out to tell people.

And I was one of the only people who would listen to him and give him the time of the day to go show what's happening.

So I understand that you've got this unusual microcosm of a very particular demographic in a very tightly dense area.

What I don't understand is what is it about Minnesota?

Tim Waltz has been saying you can come here, they're kind of nice, but there has to be a specific loophole or legal.

I mean, is this available everywhere?

If I just dumped 200000 people from one particularly innovative culture into an area, would they be able to scheme and do that across the whole country?

Yeah.

Well, I talked to some of the Somalians and they tell me well, if one Somalian moves, we all move.

Essentially,

So like they kind of move in these groups.

So there's like groups of them in Texas, there's groups of them in Minnesota.

And I think they just saw how much money you can make from these welfare programs.

They're going unchecked.

I mean, Quality Learning Center, they had 90 violations.

Stop calling it Quality Learning Center.

That's what it is.

Quality Learning Center.

And they leered their lesson.

Fuck.

Okay.

Can you explain to me the exact journey of a dollar, where it comes from, where it goes to and what you think is going on?

I imagine that there's a variety of different paths that it can take, but money has to come from somewhere, go to somewhere, get fed back to somewhere.

What's the story there?

Yeah, so for instance, with child care, there's a thing called the HHS, and that's a federal.

I believe it's Health and Human Services.

So they allocate a certain amount of funds to stuff like child care.

For instance, they allocated $185 million to child care.

And then that money, you then go submit, you go get licensed for your daycare.

And then you say, we want this many children.

And then you're able to receive this money for these daycares.

Cause it's part of their like Tim Waltz openly bragged even on X and in the debate with with JD Vance.

Like we're going to give childcare and daycare a raise.

Like, why would you do that?

There's a lot of hard, hardworking parents that are paying to put their kid in childcare.

And so that's kind of how they go about making their money.

And then they've realized, well, daycare is great.

Let's do adult daycare.

Let's do assisted living.

So you've got this fund that can help to pay for daycare, but somebody needs to create a business and file a business.

And what's the structure of what's going on on the ground there?

Who's working there?

Are they being paid in cash?

Are they being paid?

Yes.

So that's kind of the problem right now.

That's why The federal government has surged Minnesota with investigators to figure out what's actually happening, because it's been like this kind of weird liquid thing where no one really knows.

And so that's kind of the problem.

That's why you're seeing it's kind of hard to track down what's actually happening.

You know that there's money going in, but you're unsure where it's coming from or how it's being distributed.

Yeah.

So I went to a fraud committee meeting and this one lady she's a Republican representative for the state

She laid out one of these frauds that was happening.

You had one man.

He also ran a daycare assisted living and he had multiple violations, but the government kept giving him money.

And so somebody from inside the state DHS was cutting the checks and they continued to give these people money, even though they're violating and having violations.

And so that's why they had been enabling this fraud to happen for so long.

That's why, Tim Waltz, he needs to be held accountable for it because, like you said, the buck stops with him.

And so if someone's stealing 100000 a million dollars from your bank account, how fast are you going to find out?

Pretty quick.

And Tim Waltz has been saying they've been fighting fraud since 2019.

And so six years later, he's been enabling fraud.

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So you have unlicensed people don't need to show um that they've got registered teachers.

Any accreditation is what's the level of scrutiny to be able to build?

If i want to go now and start the quality leering standard 20, can i go do that now?

It'd probably be a lot harder because of everything, but i mean people were starting about starting them up everywhere.

I mean, if you just drive around minneapolis and you pay attention to all the daycare centers or whether it be daycares or adult daycares or assisted livings or home health services, you'll be shocked.

Like literally almost every block, there's some sort of welfare program, whether it be autism daycare.

You're like, what is going on?

And they're not like nice buildings.

They're like these, almost like warehouse-styled buildings, and they just slap a daycare on top of it and there's no children to be seen anywhere.

Have you looked at the landlords of these buildings?

Who owns them?

I haven't looked into whose landlords are.

That'd be interesting to work out. how culpable it sort of goes back.

Okay, so that's, I suppose, the business side.

And it's kind of obvious.

You find a loophole inside of the government and some of the subsidy money which can be paid to these kinds of facilities.

You start one, you gain all of the money to pay your costs, but because you're not operating it fully, you don't have to pay the costs and you're able to arbitrate.

You just scrape off the top of whatever's left.

It's tax exempt.

Right.

And so like, for instance, a lot of the woman working in there, there's videos of this is you can look this up.

There's videos of men going in woman, bringing their children.

And then there's a man who gives them cash.

And so a lot of these guys, And this also makes me, I have some theories about this.

So, for instance, Muslims, they can marry four wives.

And so all these people inside of these daycares a lot of the women are probably related or married to the man who's receiving the checks.

Okay.

Right?

So he's receiving quality learning.

He's receiving $1.9 million.

He has all these employees.

Well, I'm not actually going to give them.

Put them on a W-2 or 1099, because then I have to report their taxes and they're going to have to pay taxes on that money.

So let me just pay them cash.

And then what will we do?

We'll collect welfare.

81% of the population's on welfare. inside of minnesota because somalians are on welfare because you because they're not haven't registered the employees as employees they still get to be paid in cash from the front end and receive the benefits from the back end yeah so now i'm thinking about it if they do put them on taxes they're probably paying them bare minimum so they can still receive those benefits so whether it's like $30,000, just the bare minimum to get by to still be able to receive those benefits.

And you think the multiple wives thing you're just saying that's kind of free and easy labor from somebody that you know which happens to be in your house.

Have you got any evidence of guys that have got a whole family of wives that are working in a single place?

Well, it's kind of just a theory I have, but I mean, they're able to marry four and all the women inside the day all the people working inside the daycares are women and then when you think about how many what the percentage of people are on welfare that are somalians kind of makes sense and then you see like their economy they have there whether with all of these welfare programs how are there so many people living on welfare still is this money being sent back to somalia at all have you got any idea yeah so some of that money has been traced back to go back to al-shabaab a reporter found that out and i actually talked to a man who worked at tsa this is coming out my part two so and there's a video from 2017 from fox local news there where they had reports of millions of dollars hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash going through tsa literally in cash hundreds of thousands of dollars so they then take this money they get it through tsa they then take them to the back of a room they then claim the money whatnot because you can't you can't me and you we can't go through without saying we if we have more than ten thousand dollars you have to let people know and so then they let them go through and all they have to do is get to a country like dubai where they can then send that money and wire it over to a place like somalia and it can go through i was gonna say because it's all cash yeah this is cash cash cash which is a kind of a bit of a nightmare it's good that it's untraceable when you start shifting big volumes of it around up to nine hundred nine thousand nine hundred ninety nine dollars yeah you're gonna have to have a pretty sophisticated operation to distribute it yeah and so that's why like for instance that's why i think a lot of the women there aren't actually getting paid money or aren't getting paid legally because they just give them cash hmm because it's a way you don't have to report.

And if you work in cash, everyone knows that you can kind of move around taxes if you're working around a cash primarily business.

Have you got any evidence that it's coming back into the government at all?

Yeah, so it is interesting, for instance, that Ihan Omar, she's outside of the daycare with the lady who operates another daycare, who then is also giving the mayor a tour of her daycare.

And there has been funneling to Some of these campaigns, allegedly, for instance, Tim Waltz.

It was very weird when Kamala Harris chose Tim Waltz to become the vice president to run with her.

Nobody really knew who he was.

And I wanted to make sure I had the right stat for when I came to talk to you about this.

So Tim Waltz the day he's chosen to become vice president, he raises a record high 36 million in one day for his campaign with kamala harris record high in one day of all vice presidents.

All yeah, like the first day.

That's like the most amount of money a vice president has brought into a campaign 36 million dollars.

Tim waltz, he's a football coach, he's from nebraska and how does he raise 36 million dollars in one day?

They're anti-billionaires.

They're anti-elon musk.

I suppose the argument might be maybe some rich donors on the left are able to or they're concerned about the potential of a second Trump term.

So people are going to dump it.

Do you need to register where that money comes from?

Do people need to register donations in that sort of way?

Is it trackable?

I think so.

That should be pretty easy to work out where that's come from then.

And if there's a ton coming from Cedar River, the quality leering center, you'd think okay well, we could trace that back.

But we've also like how are they not able to trace down all this fraud that's happening right now?

It's just like it's kind of been disheartening to see on both sides republicans and democrats.

Side one, you had democrats come after me and to start defending fraud, and then you had republicans like all right, how do we crack down this fraud?

It's like well, aren't you guys like government officials like, how did you guys just let this happen as well?

So it's like both side issue and uh, Nobody likes fraud to be happening.

Disheartening is a good way to put it.

I think that, no matter what your perspective, unless you're somebody who is benefiting from a scheme like this, nobody everyone feels crappy about how much money is taken from them for taxes.

Everybody does.

And the prospect of seeing so much waste go on must just drive people insane.

I know it does for me.

I mean, When I was living in the UK, the different deductions that we have for taxes are so insane.

People get pissed at the fact that the roads aren't very good.

My taxes go toward these roads and there's potholes in my roads or my bins won't get collected, etc etc.

But when you see schemes like this, that just feels like how much of that could be back into the pockets of people who really, really need it and are working hard to basically do this weird trickle-down pyramid scheme where a relatively small number of people who aren't working are taking tons of money from a pretty big number of people who are.

Yeah, it feels like we're being robbed, the hard-working, law-abiding, tax-paying citizens.

It literally is robbery.

I mean, they're stealing our money.

It's happening everywhere across America. come to find out.

Elon Musk, he tried to do Doge.

And who was one of the proponents who was most against Elon Musk?

Tim Walz.

All this stuff happening now, it's starting to make sense.

Well, with stuff like that, I get what you mean.

Tim Walz realizes that the skeleton's in his closet and I am going to push back against a potentially very invasive investigation which is going to find out what's going on.

I get the sense that, especially if you're sort of caught up in the furor of popular politics and you're on the front page of CNN every day and you're potentially going to be the vice president, I think it's more likely to be.

Elon is the bad guy.

He's on the other side.

Maybe this will benefit me a bit behind the scenes.

I always get a little bit skeptical of like attributing to real personal aspirations shit that's going on when someone is mega, mega time because they're so concerned about optics, and how does this play out?

Maybe, maybe this is the the driving force in the back of his mind.

I just get the sense that when there is a big tsunami of stuff happening, you're playing much more for kind of the big game than the smaller personal stuff back home.

But i could be wrong yeah, and it's just interesting because, for instance, something as simple as government efficiency that's what do stand for department of government efficiency shouldn't that be something we all celebrate?

And so when you hear these politicians come out and speak against this stuff, it's like okay, has common sense left your brain?

Because we all just want more efficiency inside of our government.

Like 3% to 7% of all taxes go towards fraud.

Tell you what's interesting.

I did the first long-form podcast episode with anybody from Doge ever.

And it's a guy called Sam Korkos, who is currently the CIO of the Treasury Department.

So we did the episode on the same set as the McConaughey one, but instead we had the US debt calculator on the big video wall behind us.

And I was asking him just how sort of inefficient, and he's very much on the technical side of this.

What are the algorithms that we're using?

How are we tracking these things?

You know he's very much sort of in the matrix of this, trying to reprogram it to make it more efficient from a technical standpoint.

He's got a big technical background.

But if you just think okay, that's the system which is designed and relatively easy to be able to investigate, relatively easy to investigate.

We've got all of these different systems.

We'll have to put them all out on a whiteboard and we can work it out.

If you go, okay, you need to Fly to Minnesota, go to this place, investigate this.

Is there a person there?

When do the kids arrive?

When do they leave?

Has this guy got four wives?

What's going on?

Is the money being paid in cash?

That's so much more arduous.

It's like that's whack-a-mole, as opposed to what Sam's doing, which is much more like an atomic bomb of trying to improve efficiency.

And he was having challenges.

He was hitting limits.

So I guess the first thing it makes me think about is when you have a country of this size, the dis economies of scale of 330 million people, there's going to be so much slippage in the system and so many holes and little exploits and speed runs that you can go through.

This is kind of inevitable.

This isn't me excusing the fact that it happens, but just how could it not?

How would it not?

But the point is now, okay, we have found this.

So we play whack-a-mole and this is not a small mole, right?

What's the total amount of fraud?

Estimated above $9 billion, with a B.

$9 billion.

Right.

Yeah, that's a significant amount of money.

It's a lot of money.

Just in Minnesota?

Just in Minnesota.

Wow.

And so it makes you think like.

One thing I'm super proud about my video is it's the first video you've ever seen where journalism really created instantaneously change.

You had feds go and launch multiple investigations.

They decided to freeze all childcare funding.

For the state of Minnesota.

Frozen all childcare funding for the state of Minnesota.

Yes.

Okay.

Well, that sounds good, but that has got to impact people who are legitimately trying to get their children looked after.

My next point is they said, we'll give you back the funding once you prove your legitimate business.

Okay.

To this day, time of this recording, no businesses have submitted to prove legitimacy.

None.

How are you tracking that?

The HHS made a video about it just the other day.

The HHS made a video?

Have they got a YouTube channel?

They should probably.

They've been tagging me in their post on X. Okay, that's interesting.

Are they adversarial with you?

Are they collaborative with you?

What's their tone?

Like with this, I think they're just appreciative of the effort, because they saw how obvious I made it to the American public that fraud was happening.

And so I think it's amazing what they're doing.

And I think this kind of could help combat fraud in a lot of states and across America is all right.

Obviously there's a lot of fraud happening.

Let's take a week break.

Let's freeze the funding.

And now everyone showed us proof of legitimacy.

And if you can't, we're not going to give you the money.

Have you got any idea what proof of legitimacy looks like?

Probably showing like there's kids inside the daycares, maybe.

Maybe that'd be, that'd probably be a good place to start.

Here's our video cameras of us receiving our 90 kids that we have a capacity for.

That'd probably help prove they're a little bit more legit.

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Just the other day, there are protesters stormed ice and ice actually killed a protester.

I saw there was that the lady in the car.

Yes.

Yeah.

That was very sad to see.

I wanted to talk about this dude.

Cause I think one of the concerns that everybody has is we've already got some pretty sort of tight tensions around this sort of stuff.

At the moment UK maybe even more so than here.

Uh, How much do you think your video contributed to the tension of what happened in Minneapolis the other day?

Well, they surged the city with federal agents and they launched these investigations, which is a good thing.

Do we want crime to be happening?

Do we want illegal migrants running rampant in our cities?

Do we want millions of dollars being funneled across to other places?

These are all good things.

But now the left is saying that You're a bad person for trying to crack down and uphold the law.

And so for that lady to be out there and impeding law enforcement and then attempt to run him over, like the video, is pretty evident that she was going to.

Her target was to run him over.

And he shot her super tragic.

I was super sad when I saw that video.

Like that did not need to happen.

She didn't need to put law enforcement in risk.

She could have supported law enforcement and she could have abided by what they said.

They told her to get out of her door, to get out of her car and then she goes and hits the ICE agent and he's fearful for his life and he shoots her.

Super sad, right?

No one wants to see that happen.

And it's just gotten to a point where people need to really come to their senses and think okay, this is law enforcement.

If they're going to tell us to do something, probably do it yeah, but now you're.

But then you're seeing these politicians come out and say i skipped the f out of our city.

Little little guy fry says that the mayor of minneapolis, and then tim waltz is calling this uh, a war against the federal government.

Why can't they de-escalate and say all right, you guys fraud bad, illegal migrants.

If you're here, local law enforcement, federal law enforcement's here, if they get you guys, you're going to go back to where you came from.

How many of the Somali people are there legally versus illegally?

Is there any idea?

I don't know.

What's your estimation?

Well, with Biden, a lot of people came to the country over 10 to 20 million.

And so there's a lot of them.

And then people have undocumented.

People have been doing their asylum cases.

So who knows exactly how many?

You had no indication of how many people were actual citizens versus illegal?

No.

But because, for instance, some of them came here, like Ihan Omar.

She's a naturalized citizen of the United States.

She was born in Somalia, brought over.

She became a U.S. citizen.

Now she's in Congress.

And so there's a lot of people who are naturalized citizens.

And because this happened a long time ago.

People like Ihan Omar then have kids and then those kids are foreign citizens.

And so that's what makes it super complex to with the topic of illegal immigration, because you have parents who are illegal, kids who are illegal, and the option is well, if we find you, you have the option to go back with your children or your child will be here.

The topic of illegal immigration is super hard.

That's why you should do it right.

Yeah, it's a brutal situation.

So the influx of ICE agents that was specifically kind of in response to this Yeah.

And ICE was already there.

They had been there for since back in June.

When I was there for the first time back last June, there was a ICE raid that took place, and they've been operating there for months since Trump took office.

Cause a lot of people that came over the border, we didn't just have immigration from Latin America.

We had people coming all the way from Africa, all across the world, they came over.

And so there's a high likelihood that tens of thousands of people from somalia also came in and where do they go when they get here to the united states a place where they feel like they're being represented somalia or to not somalia it might be now a little little somalia yeah um have you got any idea who masterminded this are the somalis that innovative that they just kind of played the system over and over until they found an exploit and stood next to a spawn point and started to generate like free government money yeah i'm sure someone just saw that it was easy no one was really checking i mean they had they had fraud tourism people were coming all across the country to move to minnesota to commit fraud it wasn't getting stopped well i think i remember when i was in downtown san francisco for the first time and i was looking around and i couldn't believe how many homeless people there were and you know i come from austin where there's a pretty big homeless population but it's not it's not that much and i realized that well you've got basically the perfect climate like meteorologically you've got the perfect climate it's not going to get too cold that you freeze it's not going to get too hot that you get cooked alive and i suppose this is kind of the equivalent but it's a fiscal financial legal loophole weird that's perfect yeah and that was kind of my big my big question coming into this was like why minnesota why minneapolis and it just seems like well maybe this is available elsewhere but someone found it and then just rinsed and repeated and told their friends and told their friends and now i mean they're very well maybe some sort of blueprint playbook that someone's got printed out on this is exactly where you need to submit.

This is exactly what you need to say.

This is exactly what you need to do.

Oh, I'm sure of it.

And also like that people are very scared to speak up in Minneapolis, Minnesota in general.

You had George Floyd that happened there and you saw what happened.

They let the city burn.

And so people, politicians especially, they're afraid of being politically correct and calling things out for what they are.

And so I think that kind of helps cultivate that fraud and enable it, because everybody's scared of being called a racist, so no one wants to call out something legitimate for being seen as being xenophobic.

Exactly yeah, and i mean that happens all across the world.

That happened in the uk with the grooming stuff that happened.

That took place and uh, i've talked with tommy robinson before and he's like it political correctness got so bad that british men and women let their children get you know what hmm, And it's sad that people are afraid to speak truth.

But now I believe since we have freedom of speech back with X, Trump, he'll say whatever.

And so people feel like they can say how they really feel.

And if it's a fact, it's a fact.

Are you concerned that this could result in xenophobia around a particular, like an entire community of people, when it's only one small portion of them Somalis that live in New York, or Somalis that live in Austin Texas, or whatever?

Well, I don't think if you're not committing fraud, you shouldn't be worried.

It's just kind of a blatant fact that you shouldn't be worried unless you're committing fraud.

Some man came up to me in part two and he comes after me.

He says, are we the only community that commits fraud?

I'm like, well, you just admitted you commit fraud.

Like, come on, man.

And so it's like.

Stop investigating my fraud.

Investigate their fraud.

Exactly.

I'm like.

Well, it just happens that 89 of the population that are committing the fraud are Somalians.

Here,

And there was a lady who got charged for committing fraud.

It was called Feeding Our Future.

And she was the head honcho of it.

She got charged and she's in jail.

However, there was a man inside Minnesota who got caught for $7.2 million.

Somalian man.

He was charged, found guilty and the judge overturned it and let the guy walk.

Why, i don't know.

Interesting right, why would you, after finding a man being charged guilty of 72 million dollars in fraud, why would you let him walk?

When was this?

Just a few months ago, maybe a year or so ago?

Wow, medicaid fraud, i believe.

Have you seen any displays of this sort of wealth?

Because if we're talking about millions, tens of millions, maybe even hundreds of millions of dollars going to a community of people which is, at most 200000,

I have to assume that there's some other communities.

The Somalis aren't going to be able to completely ring fence this around themselves.

I have to guess that there's going to be some other groups that have done this too.

Have you seen, is there anyone driving around in a Lambo?

Someone got a big house?

Outside one of the daycares, there was three BMWs and one Range Rover.

Okay.

Midday during a weekday.

That was interesting.

I believe some kids.

No kids, but three cars.

No kids here, but four really nice luxury cars.

Yeah.

Someone here also in LA.

They did a video and they went and found a daycare and it was an Iranian man who was in a Rolls Royce.

Okay.

That's pretty good.

And so it's kind of like there's that one movie I can't remember what it's called, but there's that one movie where they steal all the money and they start buying houses and people are wondering well, how did these hicks start getting rich?

And then they find the fraud.

And I mean, the lady who got caught for feeding our future scam, that was a $250 million fraud scam.

She was driving around a Porsche.

I'm pretty sure that the didn't the the lady or one of the ladies that founded blm.

She got investigated quite aggressively.

A bunch of mansions huge, huge houses everywhere yeah yeah, what a shame, dude.

What a shame, because i think two things can be true at once there can be loads of fraud and we should actually invest more to make these sort of legitimate versions of these sorts of businesses available for people who really need them.

And in my question about Is there going to be a challenge if you're a normal, law-abiding Somali?

What if you're a normal law-abiding daycare?

You're going to get scrutinized.

The kids are maybe going to be a little bit disrupted or maybe a lot disrupted.

You're going to be worried about security concerns.

It's weird when you think about this, because what people would say.

I can imagine one of the criticisms would be something like this is going to make it harder for legitimate businesses to do the thing that they need to do.

Yeah, that's true.

But I don't know what the solution is.

I don't know how you step in and investigate misuse without there being a blast radius of scrutiny around people who aren't misusing.

Yeah, I think transparency is very important.

So if you're operating a daycare and you're operating legally, if someone asks you for a brochure, have that brochure form.

Don't come after them and then cry victim after it happened, but be running your business legitimately.

And so that's why I was like I was really happy to see that they froze the funding, because then it gives every opportunity for every business to prove their legit business.

Well, I mean it does sound like in retrospect because the businesses have already been running.

It sounds kind of intrusive or restrictive in some sort of a way.

But if you were to say, from the get-go, In order for you to get funding to open up a daycare, you need to prove to us that you have adhered to this list of things.

You go, that seems like a reasonable request for a daycare.

The problem is that these daycares have been operating without that.

And then when you bring the scrutiny in, you just have anchoring buyers.

Exactly.

I mean, Biden literally came out just the other day.

The restrictions, the guidelines to get a daycare going was very low when he was in office.

So a lot of this fraud has been enabled to happen and now people are saying Nick, you need to go do fraud here in California.

You need to go to Ohio, Seattle, Washington.

There's all this fraud taking place.

And so I think now you're going to start seeing a lot of people speaking out against fraud, because I mean, some people are paying upwards of more than 50 of their paycheck to the government.

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What are the places?

If you were to create, based on the messages you've got, and you were to make a hit list of the top few places that you would go to, where would they be?

California, really bad, obviously.

The next one would be Ohio.

I've heard that one's really bad.

New York's bad as well.

So those would probably be the top three.

What have you learned about those places?

As someone said, it's a particular, it's a different, is it the same scheme, different one?

A lot of it is the welfare scams.

Here in California, you had $24 billion randomly go unaccounted for for homelessness.

You have that train they've been trying to build for years upon years.

Califraud.

And then Ohio, you have welfare programs as well.

New York City got welfare programs as well, where people are just kind of stealing from the government.

Who are the highest profile politicians or departments that are working with you now or that have reached out?

Well, I'm not working with any of them.

People have reached out.

For instance, I was on Patrick with David.

He's like Nick put out a tweet right now calling out Cash Patel and Pam Bondi and ask them how you can help.

And so then I'm like driving to the airport and I get a phone call and I screened it before and it said this is the FBI calling.

And I was in Uber, so I don't want to answer and have the Uber guy overhearing it.

And so I was like, okay, I'll wait to answer it.

By the time I had gotten to the airport airport, by that time i had received five or ten other calls and i couldn't figure out what one it was.

And so, like a lot of people have been reaching out to me, but also at the same time i'm like okay well, i'm not a fed, i'm not gonna do your guys's job for you.

Um, i showed you guys what was happening.

I'm willing to talk, but i'm not a fed.

Like this is kind of your guys's job to go in.

I'm willing to do my job as a citizen, to give you as much information as i can, but At the end of the day, you guys are the ones with the papers and you guys are the ones who have all the laws in your power to go and find these fraudsters.

So you ended up speaking to the FBI?

No, I didn't actually.

Oh, you had so many missed calls, but just never could call them back.

Couldn't find it.

Like this week.

My phone I can't even keep up with it, because if I fall asleep for two hours or go to bed at night, I wake up and I have a hundred text messages I could show you.

My phone's in the room, but I have just like 300 messages that I haven't gotten back to.

Wow.

Just because there's so many people.

Yeah.

What's been the response of the mainstream press to this?

Yeah.

So you think they'd be happy that somebody goes in and goes and shows what that fraud is happening.

But instead of investigating the fraudsters, they investigated me.

They tried to come in and debunk my whole entire story.

They couldn't do it because it was true.

And they labeled me as a MAGA YouTuber, conservative, right-wing journalist.

Would you call yourself conservative?

Yeah, I am conservative.

I think a lot of the values from conservatives are stuff I just share equally as well.

I just think it makes the most sense.

But I had this conversation with a left-leaning journalist.

I said, well, are you a journalist or are you a left-wing journalist?

He's like, well, I'm a journalist.

I'm like, okay, same thing here.

I'm a journalist too.

And I'll talk to the liberal.

I'll talk to the homeless man.

I'll talk to the guy running the daycare.

I'll talk to the person who's been living in the neighborhood for eight years.

I'll talk to everyone inside my video.

And that's why my video, I think, resonated with so many people, because I was showing and I was talking to quite literally everybody, from the daycare owner to the man who's been doing his own investigation for years, to the guy who's been living in Minneapolis for eight years who'd never seen a kid inside a quality learning center.

And then the crazy liberal who's yelling at me, telling me I'm ice.

So I'll talk to everybody and I'll go to these protests.

I'll do these live streams and I'll talk to the protesters and And I just let people talk.

And if they want to come after me, so be it.

I'm there to give each and every single person I interview an opportunity to explain what they're doing, what they think and ultimately, why they're behind the cause that they're behind.

Why do you think it is that the mainstream press had such a problem with it?

Is it just good optics to seem like you're sort of fighting for the underdog brown person?

Or is there something deeper going on?

I think it's because they're trying to delegitimize me because I pose a threat to everything that they are.

I pose a threat to their viewership, to their dollars, to their fan base.

And so why would they want me to get credit for a story that they should have been reporting on?

They have thousands of employees.

I have me and myself.

And your mom.

My mom.

And that's pretty much it.

I'll have my cameraman.

Yeah.

And that's it.

And we just did over 100 million views on an expose that they should have covered as well.

But instead, they come after me.

So I think that's kind of why.

And they know that the mainstream media, it's dying.

Their viewership is getting less and less each and every single year.

And so if they can come in and they find somebody like me who goes and does this story gets way more views than they did.

Why would they want to say oh, good job, Nick Shirley.

That's amazing reporting you just did.

Let's do everything to make people know that, at least try to make them know that whatever Nick Shirley did was not true, but it was true.

Yeah, there's certainly a rivalry between independent and legacy media in that way.

I would say at least Again, the immediate benefit that these people get, in the same way as the immediate benefit that Tim Walz perhaps got, is the optics.

That, if you're not seen to be pushing back against this, you're seen to be implicitly agreeing with and endorsing the worst possible explanation of why you could have done it.

That you don't like brown people.

That you're the secret agent for Donald Trump.

That you're a Fed.

That you're a whatever.

I think that to me makes sense. the most sense, but I don't disagree.

For the first time ever.

It was really funny.

There was some gossip in the evidence-based fitness community a couple of months ago and it was the first time that I'd ever seen the press commenting on a really niche internet story.

So typically youtubers we would react to shit that happened in the real world or that's in the press.

Press does an investigation.

We talk about it right today in the new york times.

Did you see the article about such and such?

This was the first time where it happened the other way around.

It was like some niche internet beef had gotten sufficiently big That the press had gone.

Oh, that's a story that we can have.

And that was when I really realized that sort of the flow of traffic is moving in the other direction.

It very much is that the independent media stuff.

I'm still hesitant about completely sucking off everybody who's doing independent stuff.

Mainstream press still gets a ton of reach in places that we simply can't.

We just can't reach most of middle America soccer mom people.

They're not going to hit your algo, no matter how many times Elon Musk retweets it.

The only way it works is if NPR pick up on Musk's tweet.

But there is definitely a rivalry going on.

And as with any sort of dying institution, it tends to not go down without a fight.

There's a rivalry going on.

And It's competition at the end of the day for them.

They're trying to keep up with people like me and you.

I mean, we're able to run our operatives a lot smoother and smaller than they are.

Just think about what they have to do to go out and get a story.

They have to book a cameraman.

They have to carry around this huge backpack.

They have to get approval from the senior editor.

And then when they want to post the video, then it goes through two different hands.

And then they have to approve it.

And then it goes live versus me.

I book my flight.

I get to the location, I film, I edit, and I post.

Well, the frictionlessness is a massive advantage.

It's why you were able to basically turn it around in 10 days.

The criticism of that would be well, because you're not going through the appropriate amount of scrutiny with having higher levels.

There will be an error, some sort of an implication error or many, in the video that you put out and in the next one, and in every podcast that I have ever done, because it's not going to go through an entire team of fact checkers.

I think the reason that people feel particularly aggrieved when the mainstream media make errors.

It's the same reason that you feel super pissed if you ever to see a cop texting while driving.

Like, hey, you're supposed to enforce the law.

Because you enforce the law, you're kind of meant to adhere to it more rigorously than we are.

But you know, the concern that people have about citizen journalism is that it's fast and loose with the facts.

And if it just gets clicks, it doesn't matter.

So I think you know if I was to give you a piece of advice, I think certainly, as you move forward which you're probably already doing you need to unfortunately, become increasingly squeaky clean with your own fact checking as you go on.

Because the amount of scrutiny, the amount of eyeballs now is just going to keep getting more and more.

And if you fuck up, what's going to happen is that's going to be used, that is going to be um, a microcosm to try and smear the rest of the world.

See, see the error that was in there.

Actually he's not as such and such, and then that's the rest of it.

I mean, i've made my mistakes too, and when you're going through making a video like that, the editing process is long and that takes a lot of time to edit, so you're also doing fact checks as well when you're editing it, because i edit all my videos, i'm also going through, and if something's not true, i'm not, I'm going to call it out for what it is.

And everything in that video that I posted was true.

And have I made mistakes before?

Yeah, I have.

I'm 23 years old and I've been doing this sort of journalism for about two years now.

Like I'm not going to say I've never made mistakes, but in this case of the Minnesota fraud video, it's been proven to be completely true.

Not only by me, but by the government, by the locals.

I mean, Quality Learning Center just got shut down the other day, got closed on january 6th.

And also when, the same the same day that that guy came out and he was talking about quality learning center were open and uh, that same time, the commissioner of children, tiki james, was doing a live stream and she announced that the daycare had been closed.

While he's out there telling people it's open wow, talk to me about the security concerns that you've got now.

Yeah, so Security now I have to have it because I exposed fraud.

And right now I have somebody with me 24-7.

I have somebody at the house as well.

It's super expensive.

And as a YouTuber, I don't make enough money to be able to afford it, unfortunately.

So I was able to raise some money.

I don't know if you know him.

His name is Officer Tatum.

He has a nonprofit side of a security company.

And people can go ahead and donate to that company, donate to that where it's helping.

It's called black line guardian and they have a security side.

I go.

They have like a non-profit side of it where people can donate, so your big scary dude with the beard outside is organized by him.

Yes well, cool.

So that helps a lot.

And so that's been critical because they're just like the threats that i've received.

Talk to me about those.

What have you got?

Yeah so, for instance, somebody sent me a photo of somebody in a ditch dead and they say well, this will be you.

On a text, Just through private messages like DMs, people posting you'll be Kirk'd.

People on certain platforms just went ahead and doxed me, so that was great.

Which is why you now need the security at your house.

Yes.

Luckily we got the info taken down, but it just sucks that there's people who get so mad about you doing something, the point where they want to kill you.

I mean, we saw it with charlie kirk rest in peace to charlie kirk.

And now it's very dangerous, like being well known in politics is different than being well known for having an amazing song, because politics is now very polarizing.

And so i thought, on an issue of just fraud happening, i didn't think i to me, i was just making another youtube video for my weekly uploads.

I've uploaded a youtube video every week for the past 100 weeks And so for me to post that video, then all of a sudden, kind of my life to be changed overnight to the point where I have to have a 24-7 security guy with me right now.

And it's not the funnest thing to have to go through and try to navigate and plan stuff.

It feels like you're just going from point A to point B now.

And you're going to have to figure out how to live life a little bit different for at least this, these past few weeks and going forward for the next few weeks as well.

What's that been like emotionally to navigate? weird.

I'm not a very emotional person.

I think what was harder was going through like constantly defending yourself and like fighting back against all this fake news that was coming out.

There were people trying to debunk me.

It just felt like you're kind of like fighting a war online.

And that was just.

It was weird because you feel like, Because I actually never really gave my opinions on the internet before this.

I was just interviewing people and talking to people.

And then when everyone comes after you, you feel like you have to stand on business.

And so I had to do that.

And I gained millions and millions of supporters, literally, who support me.

And it's been amazing.

And it's also been pretty exhausting.

I think the three days after I posted that video I maybe slept for 10 hours for the three days combined.

And so I just had barely been catching up on sleep.

And yeah, it does take a bit of a toll on you emotionally, but it's just a battle you have to fight.

Does it make you hesitant about doing more if it means that your life's going to be in jeopardy?

Yes.

And now you're trying to think of different ways to do it.

Or if you're going to go film this video, what security measures do you have in place beforehand?

It's just stuff you didn't have to think about before.

Before it's just, I'd run around, I'd grab my GoPro and My camera and I would go.

No one knows who you are.

No one cares.

And it increasingly started to get like a little bit more dangerous.

For instance, the riots here in LA.

People were singling me out, trying to kick me out of the of interviewing people.

And then I go to.

Because they know who you are.

They've got an idea about the sort of perspective you're coming into this with.

Yes.

Protests in New York city.

I'm live streaming.

I'm live streaming a protest that's happening in New York city.

Just asking people questions, not even giving my opinion.

NYPD has to pull me out because a bunch of protesters surround me.

They start throwing stuff on me.

NYPD pulls me out.

And so it had increasingly been getting to that point.

And then someone also in this fear they're like well Nick, it was just a matter of time before this happened, especially with the topics you're covering.

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I think... I don't mean to call you naive.

I think you're right.

It doesn't need to be said.

Death threats aren't cool.

But if you're talking about taking away hundreds, tens of millions, hundreds of millions and up to billions of dollars from people who are potentially criminally minded, prospect of you having death threats does not surprise me, like this is, I mean, there will be.

There is an 100 certainty the organized crime, like proper proper, proper organized crime, is involved at some point in some portion of this, or maybe in a big chunk of it, because no one is able to come up with a scheme, allegedly that is this good, that is able to churn out this sort of cash and it not be picked up on by some big burly guy covered in tattoos who wants to have a piece of that.

So yeah, man, I mean, I get it.

I get that it feels, and it is, scary and unfair.

But yeah, if you start attacking that kind of resource, there's going to be a lot of people that are very upset.

Yeah, no one likes to get their money played with.

No.

Well, including the taxpayer.

Isn't there a movement at the moment for a tax strike?

Aren't people tax striking?

Whatever that means.

Yeah.

We'll see if it happens.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, it is kind of a bit like I'm not giving you my money because you're giving it to the daycare centers that I don't like.

It's like, okay, go to jail.

Like you need to pay us your taxes.

I don't know whether a tax strike works.

You can't ethically object to your taxes being taken.

You can just try and then the law comes up against you.

It's going to be interesting if people actually hold their word onto it, because no one wants to go to jail.

I mean, the Boston Tea Party, we fought over just a few percentages.

That's a very difficult day for me.

Be careful with that.

Have you got any lawsuits coming your way?

As of right now, no.

No lawsuits.

I guess it's still kind of early days.

What I did was, it was true.

And if someone wants to prove me otherwise Well, I think the issue that you have is lawsuits don't need to be predicated on anything that's untrue.

They can be predicated on truth and just drown you in paperwork.

Try and send as much um worry and concern your way.

I mean, you saw, do you see, um, Sean Ryan and Dan Crenshaw that are in a big fallout at the moment?

Um, and then it didn't happen.

It felt like I'd been edged up to the point of orgasm, and then it didn't.

It didn't end up occurring.

Fucking nightmare.

Uh, That entire process on Sean's side is somebody is using the legal system to bully me in a way, bully a journalist, bully someone who's investigating, in a manner that is not because I crossed the line but is because I'm just inconvenient.

Yeah, I pray it doesn't ever get to that point.

And that's why I had avoided stuff like this for so long.

And that's why I always feel like my videos.

I just kind of give other people the option to voice their opinions, whether it was the daycare lady or whether it's at talking to people at the border, just giving people their opinions.

And so I really hope I never have to get into any of that.

Have you got a legal team or is people reviewing stuff that you put out now?

The next video, is that going to be filtered through or is it still just you again?

Camera, Premiere Pro, caffeine, and just shipping it?

Lots of caffeine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'll put you on the rotation for Nutanix.

It'll help.

I'm changing a little bit how I go about things.

I think that's a smart idea.

Yeah, it's kind of necessary.

I think that's a smart idea.

But it's been amazing to see the support as well.

A lot and lots of people want to support me, because a lot of people's lives are being affected by this fraud stuff.

A lot of people are getting pushed out of places.

Tell me about part two.

Part two yes, so the daycare fraud is only one part of the fraud, and what really holds the fraud together is these transportation companies.

And so, like shipping no, they're called non-emergency transportation, okay.

And so, for instance, these daycares, these home health care companies, adult daycares, they need to be approved that they're doing stuff.

So they have created these um transportation companies.

You'll see them all across minnesota, all across minneapolis.

You'll drive, you'll see a van and there's never anybody in these vans, it's just always a driver.

So, in order to make it look like they're doing stuff, they get these drivers, they'll send, they'll say, all right, here's our client.

So imagine you have an adult daycare center and then you have a health care clinic.

In order to kind of prove that you're doing legit business okay well, we're going to take this adult adult to healthcare clinic and we're actually not really providing a service and there's no person to actually take.

So we'll have the transportation company, we'll write it up that they took that person there, they got that service and then they brought her back and nothing actually ever happened.

It's just the transportation moving from one place to the next to be able to continue this fraud.

It's like that.

It's like what keeps the hamster ball going.

Why is the transportation so important?

Is that, and is that a crucial part of logging the activities?

Yeah, so it's basically so they can log the activities.

And then the transportation company also makes money and it's logging what's happening, right?

So it makes it a lot harder to kind of prove that something fishy is going on because no we, we had the transportation company take the client.

This is the proof.

I suppose the problem is because every business doesn't talk to every other business.

What you would pretty easily be able to do is say well, go to the healthcare and say, did this person come in at this time?

It's not the job of the healthcare company to work with the benefit company to see that the daycare company dropped the person off with the transport company.

Yeah, but they're all in on it.

Including the healthcare?

In one building, in my video, 22 healthcare companies inside of one building.

Right right okay, okay.

So so is it right to say that the transport thing is part of the crux of this, because it is one of the areas that's scrutinized by the, the government?

Is that what's going on?

I just don't understand why the vans and the minibuses are so important.

Yeah, so well, like you said, it helps log yep, and so that way they can then if someone was like well, show us the proof.

Oh well look um, safari transportation took muhammad to the doctor.

I guess it makes it harder.

But in my part two we go to these transportation companies, to their addresses, where they're listed on the state of minnesota website, and there's no company, there's no vans yet there.

Then we did the math it's about fifty dollars per travel from one way to the next, and an average And EMT, a transportation company, has about 20 vehicles.

So on average, every day in Minnesota, about $2 million is being sucked out from these companies.

Wow.

So it's just part of the welfare fraud.

Wow.

So the next part two is primarily about the transport stuff?

Yes, and some daycares as well.

Okay, okay.

That's already been filmed?

It's already been filmed.

Because there's no way that you're getting back into Minneapolis.

No, just to go back, I had to have four security guards.

Yeah, you couldn't get.

And when was that?

Just the other week.

Okay.

And so I had legit people stopping at intersections at a red light.

Their car's parked in the middle of the intersection.

They're coming out, coming for me.

And security's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

And stops the guy.

This is what's funny.

Meanwhile, I'm speaking to a black man.

And then this other black Somalians call me a racist.

I'm like, yo, I was just talking to... I've got a black friend.

Yeah, I got a black friend right here.

This isn't a race thing.

It's all just about fraud.

But it got political for some reason.

Well, of course it did because everything gets political.

Nowadays it does.

But wouldn't you think it'd be like a good thing to kind of show that fraud's happening?

Look, I totally get it, man.

The inefficiency and anybody manipulating the system, especially if you're the sort of person who really cares about the working class.

If you're supposed to be raising those up out of poverty who don't deserve to be in it, shouldn't be in it.

Well, if someone is illegitimately taking funds and using them, that is fewer funds going to the people who genuinely need them.

And then when you start to sort of spin in well, these people might not be here legally, they might be sending money back.

Okay, so we're literally exporting potentially allegedly us taxpayer dollars through dubai back to some country in the middle east.

It doesn't surprise me that people have got super passionate about it, like if what you're saying is true, this is, This is wild.

I mean, you have to have predicted that this is basically going to be an entire new content matter for probably the next two years.

There are going to be many Nick Shirley's the one in New York and the one in.

There'll be one in Toronto and there'll be one in LA.

People need to be careful too, because I did my due diligence when I went and did that video.

I've seen a lot of people just like going to daycares.

I'm like, you guys, no, you don't just do that.

What was your due diligence?

What did you do?

So I've been investigating it for a while.

And then David had all the paperwork and had testimonies from other people as well.

So I knew that it was happening.

I wasn't just showing up to random daycares.

We had all the numbers with us in hand when we went to them and we had done our due diligence.

What would be your, what are the ways to do it right and do it wrong?

If there's a mini Nick Shirley that thinks I'm going to go and give this a crack in Austin Texas, what should they and shouldn't they do?

You, i would look up do all my due diligence a lot of the information's on the state's websites.

You don't just go to a daycare and say hey, are you guys committing fraud?

That's what cnn did though, is in my.

They came after me and they're like and then we called seven other daycares.

They didn't say that they were committing fraud, and only one of them answered and they said they weren't committing fraud.

Okay but um yes, be very weary of what you do and make sure you do your due diligence, because one you don't want to accuse somebody of doing something that they're actually not doing and you don't want to put yourself in a place of danger.

So people should be very careful, and that's why you just don't go up with a camera or a microphone, start talking to people and about fraud.

If you have to know and there's a way about caring, caring yourself about it a lot of people come across confrontational, just not good.

You don't want to come across cross confrontational, you just want to act like you're going in to get the truth, because that's what you are doing.

And people I've learned something over the past few years as I've been doing this.

Just people will kind of show themselves for who they really are after a few conversations, after a few sentences and after a few questions.

So no, a lot, i feel like i'm very well socially, like i can kind of get the gist of the vibe of places and who i'm talking to, and a lot of people don't.

So it does take.

You just can't go and do it.

You need to test the temperature a little bit before you steam in.

I thought it was interesting that you mentioned you.

You try to be kind of low profile with filming equipment as well.

I think that's a smart move.

Yeah, i just want people to feel like they're inside the video and the I mean having a big camera.

This is why the news isn't successful.

If you watch any news person, they got these huge cameras.

They got another guy holding the microphone on top.

They got a light.

They're putting a, you'll see them in New York City, the news anchors.

They're like standing on a box.

They got a light brightening up their face.

Changes the dynamic of everything.

And what do people want more than anything nowadays?

Just pure authenticity.

And so.

I like to do that by my style of filming where it's just kind of like running gun.

Like, I know it's not the best quality, but we're running.

Yeah, it'll work.

I heard that you'd also been to Seacott as well.

Yes.

What was that like?

Craziest experience of my life, probably.

Tell people the story behind that.

So Seacott's this maximum security prison.

It's actually like the central of terrorism in El Salvador.

El Salvador used to be run by gangs completely.

Grandma's going to go from one street to the next to go visit their nieces and nephews because gangs control the areas.

So Nayib Ukele, he actually created his own political party inside of El Salvador called New Ideas.

And part of this was that we are going to go down and he's rich, so he actually doesn't need funding.

So that's how you can tell a political person can't be really corrupted because they don't need the money.

So Nayib Ukele, he goes in and he says we're going to fight the gangs and we're going to lock all the prisoners up.

All the gangsters were put inside of Sekhat and they're never leaving.

So they go through and they lock up all the prisoners.

They turn El Salvador from the most dangerous country in the world to the safest country in the Western hemisphere.

And they put all these prisoners inside of Sekhat and this prison.

It's like a bunch of massive Costco's for prisoners and they're never leaving.

No American YouTuber had ever gone in.

And I saw that Luisito Comunicas, he's the most popular Latino YouTuber, he went in.

So I was like, oh, there has to be a possibility to go.

And so I went to El Salvador.

I made a separate video.

And I had in the back of my mind, like, I need to find a contact so I can figure this out.

And I ended up meeting with one of the mayors in my video.

He said no, but maybe here's this phone number.

Thanks to this person.

That person says no.

I'm like, well, where do I go?

They're like, I don't know. kind of just gave up on me.

And so I started following people on X and I started sending messages like Hey, I want to come into this prison.

And finally just random person was like okay, I'll put you in.

I'll put you in contact with the secretary of press.

And I was able to go in and in that video, you'll see me walk in and rise.

You rise.

You walk into say caught anything that you were feeling good about before just leaves your body.

Like complete emptiness fills your body.

And then you look these prisoners in the eyes.

Emptiness.

Why?

Pure emptiness.

I think any goodness of them had been taken away from what they committed.

And so like, whether it be like the light of Christ or just any good vibes they had, gone.

Is it designed in a way that's meant to make it more soulless than a normal place?

100%.

The lights never turn off.

You're given a sheet.

You eat the same meals every day.

You get no protein.

You get rice and beans and tortillas, I think, and milk.

And you have no form of entertainment.

You don't have books.

And the only time you actually get to leave your cell is to touch your toes and do some push-ups and work out a little bit, or to listen to somebody preach the gospel.

If you want to go pee or poop, you have to do it in front of everybody inside your cell.

And these gangs, rival gangs, MS-13, Biodies, Yocho, they're all in the same room.

You're locked up with your enemies.

How many people are on site?

Do you know?

I think upwards of a thousand probably inside.

I think there's around seven.

I can't exactly remember the number.

I don't want to say, but I think there's more than 10,000 of them.

Wow, they used to literally control that country.

I remember when it first happened.

I watched some videos about it and it basically looks like football stadiums right, these huge, like monstrous constructions.

And then this morning I wanted to have a little look at what it was like inside and it does look.

These people people are allegedly criminals and have done horrible things and the country is undeniably better now.

Is there some collateral damage?

Yes, I'd absolutely heard that.

You know, two people are criminals in a house and five other people are also whisked away.

Not great.

Would it be nice to be more precise?

Yes, it absolutely would.

But I, when i looked at that photo and it's, you know, the bunks are super high, the four or five bunks high.

If you fell off the top you would really damage yourself.

And it's just this sort of wall of humans, sort of peering and looking through the bars i was like me man, like the fact that human civilization has got to this stage.

It's a really shocking image.

Like, that's how prisons work.

I get it, right?

But to just see that image of humans locked up a lot like animals.

In fact, animals have got better conditions in some ways.

Again, not excusing what fucking criminals do at all.

But I found that image to look at pretty difficult to see.

Like holy shit yeah, it's a lot.

And by the time when you're about to leave, you do almost feel sympathetic for these people.

The conditions are so brutal.

Well, you're like dang, that would just suck.

Like could you imagine that?

Like no lights, you never see your family, you have no contact with outside and they're never getting out, never getting out.

So everyone's in there for a life sentence, for life.

And if you do have proof that you are innocent, you can then prove that you are innocent from inside there.

So there is like a system because they did just go round up.

They checked for tattoos.

If you have MS-13 on your chest, goodbye.

One of my friends tried to get a free trip to El Salvador by getting MS-13 tattooed on his thigh.

Didn't work.

Oh, that's a bad idea.

But he's still got the tattoo.

Oh no, that's a bad idea.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And they do have a whole separate prison system that rehabilitates these people.

Not the gangsters, but there's also a lot of other criminals as well.

And it's pretty amazing to see how a country had once been controlled and ran by these gangsters to a country being entirely liberated by one man.

And the people there are just like ecstatic.

Like you go there and it's the weirdest feeling because it's like have freedom here in the united states, so we take it for granted.

These people didn't.

Now they do and they're able to live great lives.

They're able to just to live free, like how we are able to live here, and so it is like you do feel like there was liberation that did take place unreal.

What's next?

You've got part two, got part two.

Any idea of a published date?

Hoping for this coming week.

It's been super hard to even edit with all everything i've been going on.

I've been from nashville to florida, back home to here.

Tomorrow i'm going back to florida and it's just been.

Someone just called me right before this podcast to help me go testify in front of congress.

So it's just a lot and i need to maybe up my team a little bit.

So part two at some point in the next week, hopefully.

And then what?

I would love to go to venezuela, but we'll see what happens there.

Okay, that's.

I think that's el salvador on steroids at the moment.

Yeah, i do have a lot of other videos planned, but now a lot of things have changed as far as how i go about filming and lots of fraud exposed here in california, lots of fraud exposed across the world has.

Well yeah, i was going to say do you want to rinse and do you want to become known as kind of the fraud investigator guy for a little while, to keep on rinsing and repeating that before you move on to something else?

Yeah, I'll do another fraud video.

Those just take a lot of time because you don't, like I said, with my video.

I did the due diligence.

David had done his proper investigation.

I had done mine.

You need to find a David for each city.

A little bit, yeah.

And you can also just continue to find that information.

It just takes a lot longer.

Well, if you had a even partially competent team behind you, they would very easily be able to nick shirley tipscom, submit your stuff here, they can go through and verify everything and you've just got a pipeline of portfolios of wow, we've got this many from this particular street and this city.

It seems like this is the next place to go.

But yeah dude, the rapid ascension from being degenerate solo youtuber with mum as camera person to needing security around you is uh.

I think you'll look back on this period and kind of just look at it like a fever dream.

It's going to be the wildest few months of your life.

Yeah, it's been super weird.

And I mean, I already had a million subscribers before.

And now I'm like 1.5 almost.

And X, I had 200,000.

Now I have 1.2 million followers.

Instagram, I had 800.

And now I have 2.3 million.

Wow.

So I was already somewhat popular on the internet before, like that's still a lot of people watching you.

But now it's new level because you had the whole entire mainstream media come after me.

Like for that entire week you couldn't turn on the news without hearing my name or seeing my footage.

You had the leftist on x coming after me, you had people like elon musk sharing my videos, you had jd vance sharing your videos, so It was almost undeniable impossible to not see my video that week.

And it turned out to be controversial.

Tim Waltz decided to step down from running for re-election because of that video.

Yeah, anybody that says that the internet doesn't cross over into the real world just needs to check out the last couple of weeks.

One video and then the subsequent aftershocks of that is crazy.

Yeah, a lot of people were calling it like modern-day David and Goliath.

You have the Goliath, who's Tim Waltz, and you have a little David just throwing some stones and took out one of the top Democrats in the United States.

Yeah.

What do you want to achieve?

Because it seems to me like there is an obvious anti-woke or anti-progressive bent to some of the stuff that you're doing.

What is it that you want to achieve?

Let's say that you look back on 2026, what would success look like to you?

I think, helping more people come to sense on common sense matters such as fraud, providing and creating real change within the country.

I mean, no video has ever created so much change in such a short period of time.

Literally, millions, potentially billions of dollars could have been saved for that one video.

And so I think creating that change, helping people see stuff for common sense, bring some more common sense into the world and just make it a better place.

And it stinks that stuff's getting politicized by this, because I really just want to be able to live in America where I feel like I can afford things.

I feel like my fellow friends and people around me can afford things, that we have hope that our taxes are going to the right place and that's for generations like myself that we can have the same opportunities that our parents and grandparents had.

And we're seeing this corruption, making it very hard between corruption and the influx of migrants.

And it's made it very, very hard for people to be able to buy houses, to just live in a country where you feel like you're being represented.

You have people on the left who are more passionate about protecting illegal migrants than going after fraud.

And we just want to be able to have the same opportunities that our parents and grandparents had.

And so, when I think about what I want to accomplish, I just really do want to see America be better than where it's been, and to support and to get behind causes that really do make changes, because now I have the opportunity to.

We just saw what I just did and will continue to see me make effects in other ways, whether that be through talking with people one-on-one, giving a speech, presenting a video that gets millions of views, or simply just helping that old lady get into her car, pick up her groceries, just being a good person and creating real world change.

And I think that's possible.

Yeah, man.

Look, I don't know if exclusively corruption and migrants are the reason that the cost of living is as high as it is at the moment.

I think it's a great factor and I think it's something that we can talk about.

It's something you've got more control over than what's the price of milk.

So I agree in terms of that.

Dude, I... We got breaking news.

We have got breaking news.

Holy shit.

J.D.

Vance announces the Trump administration will create a new assistant attorney general position who will have nationwide jurisdiction over the issue of fraud, focusing first primarily in Minnesota and then expanding nationwide.

If you're a young parent struggling to afford childcare in the United States of America, there are programs that we have to make it easier for your kids to get in daycare, for your kids to get in preschool.

Those programs should go to American citizens, not be defrauded by Somali immigrants and others.

Make it hard for you to get the access to the resources you need.

But number two make it easier for people who shouldn't even be in this country to fleece the United States and our taxpayers.

To begin with,

We've actually activated a major interagency task force to make it possible to get to the heart of this fraud.

We have Department of Agriculture resources that are focused on SNAP fraud, so that people who need food benefits can get them, but illegal aliens and other fraudsters don't.

We have over 1500 subpoenas the Department of Justice has issued to get to the heart of the fraud ring.

We've done almost 100 indictments, mostly Somali immigrants, but also a few others.

And of course we're looking in with broad investigatory authority to a number of the instances of wrongdoing that we've seen in Minneapolis.

But we also want to expand this.

We know that the fraud isn't just happening in Minneapolis.

It's also happening in states like Ohio.

It's happening in states like California.

And so what we're doing in order to help coordinate this remarkable interagency effort from the Trump administration, but also to make sure that we prosecute the bad guys and do it as swiftly and efficiently as possible is we are creating a new assistant attorney general position, who will have nationwide jurisdiction over the issue of fraud.

Of course that person's efforts will start and focus primarily in Minnesota, but it is going to be a nationwide effort because unfortunately the American people have been defrauded in a very nationwide way.

What do you think when you see that?

Journalism that's creating change.

I mean, the issue of fraud has been there.

It's not new that we've been being defrauded.

Yeah, it's a complete result of my video showing that fraud is taking place to the point where the vice president of the united states needs to create a new role for assistant attorney general to go after fraud.

It's crazy actually dude, i think.

Think about that like, have you ever thought, ever seen a video?

We've been, there's been lots of reports for years.

Has there ever been a point in time where they froze funding, sent in feds to launch investigations and created a new job?

I was thinking about.

I was thinking about some stuff, maybe during covid, where people that had scrutiny around mask efficacy, transmission rates, vaccine stuff perhaps but it was nowhere near as direct.

It was much more kind of little pebbles here and there, as opposed to this massive boulder that's just created it.

Yeah dude, i mean this.

This could be the beginning of uh, a really huge tsunami of investigations around this stuff.

So Nick Shirley, ladies and gentlemen, dude, get some sleep for me, please.

Do I look tired?

No, I just want you to sleep.

I think that it's important for you to sleep so that you can keep on doing it.

You look fantastic.

I think the other lesson at least to take away that I have from this is that you cranked out a video a week for two years and then you had the one that hit.

And that's kind of the way that it tends to not that you hadn't accumulated an audience before, but this is the one that really really hit.

Yeah.

I think it's just like I remember listening to your podcast with Hermosi, and it's just like you need to treat yourself.

I remember.

One thing that really struck to me is he's like you need to treat yourself like you're the best athlete, and whatever it may be whether it be making YouTube videos or making sure you're the best person at your job, wherever it may be.

But like I've dedicated this essentially all my time in the past few years of my life to making these videos and creating conversation, and it wasn't a surprise that it just happened to be the fact that i made this video.

It was just inevitable that something, at some point, it was gonna happen.

Yeah dude yeah that's, that's the way it works.

All right, where should people go?

Keep up to date with your stuff, support you, do all the rest of the things, Nick Shirley, on all platforms.

Shirley Defense if you want a leering hoodie to leer a little bit.

But yeah, just Nick Shirley everywhere.

Okay.

Nick, I appreciate you.

Thank you, man.

Thank you.

Got any advice for me?

Get some sleep.

I think that's important.

Honestly, dude, get some sleep and go for walks.

We'll just keep you fresh.

What else advice would I give you?

You're a wise guy.

I think, I think You need to try and delegate as quickly as possible in order to allow you to keep doing the thing that you're the best at.

Because the sheer volume of inflow that you're going to get is going to cause you to miss the stuff that you really need.

So what you could do with is an assistant who is just with you at all times.

And again, this is going to be hard because you need the money and you're going to get it funded from something.

But assuming that you had the resources to do it, And fuck me, text Elon.

I'm sure he can spare a couple of mil.

Somebody who's just always on your phone and is scrutinizing everything, sending it through a team.

You probably need I don't know two or three people.

That would be really great to run in the background.

And then it means that you can focus on where am I going to go?

What's the story?

How's the edit look?

So I would look to delegate.

I would definitely get some rest as best I could.

And I would see this period as kind of like your Superbowl, because you're not going to be.

You may be, but the likelihood is that this is the most relevant that you're ever going to be.

So I think continuing to put your foot on the gas which is why getting the sleep as best you can is good, so that you can keep on going pretty hard.

Keep on publishing at a rapid clip.

Be careful about what you say.

You don't want to have some Horrible sound bite of you saying something horrendous that kind of smears the rest of your, your image, because that's exactly what opponents are going to look for.

And I would say keep on Reaching out to people, because it's evident that people want to support your work.

So if you have the desire to try and make something happen, just keep on.

You've already you've already got like the shameless DM gene that i also have, which is good.

So just keep on sending that out, because i think people are going to want to keep supporting you.

Awesome, thank you.

I appreciate it.

Okay, appreciate your wisdom, baby.

If you are looking for new reading suggestions, look no further than the modern wisdom reading list.

It is 100 books that you should read before you die the most interesting, life-changing and impactful books.

That's chriswillxcom slash books.

[닉 셜리(Nick Shirley)와의 인터뷰: 미네소타 복지 사기 폭로와 그 이후의 파장]-[#1044 - Nick Shirley - Inside Minnesota's $10B Childcare Fraud Scandal]

📋 Summary

미네소타 복지 사기 사건: 시민 저널리즘이 불러온 거대한 파장

사기의 실체와 '퀄리티 러닝 센터(Quality Learing Center)'

팀 월즈(Tim Walz) 주지사와 정치적 책임론

사기 구조: 현금 중심의 불투명한 거래

변화의 시작: 정부의 즉각적인 대응

결론: 시민의 목소리와 책임

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript

[닉 셜리(Nick Shirley)와의 인터뷰: 미네소타 복지 사기 폭로와 그 이후의 파장]-[#1044 - Nick Shirley - Inside Minnesota's $10B Childcare Fraud Scandal]

📋 Summary

미네소타 복지 사기 사건: 시민 저널리즘이 불러온 거대한 파장

사기의 실체와 '퀄리티 러닝 센터(Quality Learing Center)'

팀 월즈(Tim Walz) 주지사와 정치적 책임론

사기 구조: 현금 중심의 불투명한 거래

변화의 시작: 정부의 즉각적인 대응

결론: 시민의 목소리와 책임

ListenLeap으로 딥러닝 학습

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript

ListenLeap이 실제 문맥에서 학습하도록 이끌어줌