You Might Also Like: The School of Greatness | Let's Master English! An English podcast for English learners

Do you feel like there's too much pressure going on in your life right now?

Like.

The responsibilities are piling up and you feel like you might be just at the point of burning out.

Well, today's guest is a sports psychologist who's worked with some of the top Olympic athletes and is giving us science-backed tools on how to deal with pressure at the highest level.

I'm so excited for you to check this out.

So let's go ahead and dive in.

I was working with a UFC fighter.

He was aware that he would tighten up before he goes into the cage.

I said, okay, when you're working to be at your best, like what's happening inside of you?

He looked at me and he's like, oh, I'm a tough.

I said, well, I don't know.

Can you back that up?

And he says, yeah.

When I was 14, I whipped my dad's ass.

What we can all learn from.

That is like for every epic thought that you want to say to yourself what are three experiences in your life that give you the right to say that?

One of the world's top high performance psychologists and leading experts on the relationship between the mind and human performance is also the co-creator of the Performance Science Institute, Dr Mike Gervais.

Do you believe that you have power over how you navigate life?

Not what life is going to give you, but do you believe you have the power to do it?

And that is squarely pointing to psychological skills.

What would you say if you could only give three psychological tools for everyday human beings elite performers, underperformers on how to have better performance in their own life?

What would those three tools be?

OK, so.

Not even a month ago, you were in a full on car crash, head on collision with someone going 70 plus miles an hour.

You're going around 40 miles an hour and talk about having to try to perform under pressure a life or death situation.

I'm just curious, since this just happened, was there anything within a second, a split second, that you've learned over the last 20, 30 plus years from your mental performance training that you felt supported you in that moment at all?

Yeah, that's cool.

In the moment.

Any moment that has requires speed and accuracy and is as fast as that as a head-on collision just forces you to be all present.

It's a forcing function to be completely in tuned in that moment.

So, when that happens, completely engaged in the present moment, but that's interesting in and of itself, but the takeaway was right afterwards yes, how do you respond?

Yeah, how do you respond to situations that are not good in life, when things don't go your way, when it's scary, when it's yeah.

I think the over overwhelming sentiment is that i'm really grateful for a couple things.

One is i'm not training to be an athlete anymore, but i invest in my physical health and My body stood up in the right way to that collision.

So I'm grateful that I had the right kind of prerequisites physically to be able to withstand a pretty radical collision.

The second is I've been training my psychology and emotional fitness, if you will, for a long time.

And I'm really grateful.

I can understand at a different level how a post-traumatic stress experience takes place for people.

So I'm really grateful that I was able to work with the experience and navigate it and move to a growth approach as opposed to a stress syndrome.

Yeah, because some people, when they have let's call it a failure or a breakdown or an injury, whatever it might be, whether they're an athlete or an executive or an everyday human being they get fired from their job or they have something that is a breakdown, let's call it.

They retreat back into fear, they limit themselves, they start thinking smaller as opposed to expanding their thinking capacity.

They try to retrieve back to what they know is comfortable, rather than taking certain risks to try to break through into a higher performance level.

What strategy or technique did you use to continue to expand yourself forward, recover from the experience and go through the?

You know the reflection of it all, but then say OK, I'm not going to not go out and drive again.

I'm going to keep pushing forward.

I'm going to keep expanding or I'm going to do things in a way that allows me to live life fully, rather than retreat.

It's a good framing.

Think about just the science of post-traumatic stress disorder for just a moment.

We could list off the symptoms and the requirements for that syndrome, but what is less talked about or even researched is post-traumatic growth.

So what you're asking about is like if you had an option which we all have, options based on our experiences and our psychology.

We determine the experience, not the experience in and of itself.

For much of my life, I have been framing things in a way like, okay, how do I grow from this?

How do I benefit from this?

How do I frame this in a way that helps me and others grow?

So this was another moment that fit well with the model that I've already invested in for the last.

Call it 30 years.

Yeah, but now you're the brain scientist who's doing open brain surgery and saying okay, do these theories actually work?

After this

Well, I think that's the point, Lewis.

Is that take any smaller setback or challenge or adversity or whatever, or any kind of mundane life experience like how do I take one more rep at the gym, right?

How do I stay in a hard conversation just a little bit longer?

So it's these small little moments that just add up where you respond based on your training.

Humans.

This is a first principle for me, and this is, I don't know, somewhat controversial, I think, is that humans fall to the level of their training.

We don't rise to moments.

And I know you might think differently about that, because I think I've heard you say we rise to the occasion, but I can't remember.

I think I agree with you.

You rise to the level of your training.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

And so, when it comes to psychological training, um your entire community right now has a training module, has a training way.

And it's like the way that they're framing this conversation, the way they framed the cold eggs that they ate.

So we're always training something.

And being aware of how we are framing and navigating our psychology is really important.

So the whole thing begins with awareness.

And without awareness of how you're working with your thoughts and emotions and feelings.

Without awareness, I don't think you have a chance to be anywhere close to what you're capable of.

And so it does begin with awareness.

We're always training ourselves, you know, one direction or not.

And so it showed up right.

And so I'm super grateful.

That's good.

What would you say?

I'm just curious.

You work a lot with elite athletes, peak performers of the world's population.

What would you say is the percentage of people that are living a peak performance life?

Know, it's a, it falls under a normal bell distribution, a normal curve.

You know um, there's the half percenters that are wildly known, world recognized, and then there's the five percent and ten percent, the fifteen percent, kind of that upper quadrille, if you will, and um, it's no different than um in any population, any endeavor, like there's a half percenters in basketball, there's a half percenters in handball, there's a half percenters in music.

Most people fall within one or two standard deviations of the mean.

84%, to be exact, right in that number of people are kind of similar in the way they approach life.

And that's what the average looks like.

84%.

Yeah.

Or I would say are what we would call right humming around the average.

So people that fundamentally commit their lives towards any aim and the word is fundamentally commit have a chance of knowing how good or extraordinary they can be in any endeavor.

And if your endeavor is handball.

You have to fundamentally commit.

If your endeavor is joy and happiness, purpose-driven, community-minded, whatever it might be.

So the word though, the phrase is fundamentally commit.

Most people don't even come close to fundamentally organizing their life around what matters most.

Wow.

They don't make a decision of what matters most.

That's right.

And they don't go all the way in on that.

Yeah.

And that fundamental decision is fundamental dangerous.

There's a danger line to sort out, and I want to enter this conversation two ways, because I think if you knew what I knew about youth sport, you would not challenge your kids in the way most people do, and I think that that sounds like what did you just say?

Well, what is it that you know about you?

Sports that all parents should know is really dangerous.

How so?

In youth sport in the US, we are equipping amateur untrained well-intended, for the most part amateur coaches with the psychology and emotional development of our children through a social force-ranked stacked statted observed, critiqued and judged sport.

Fill in the blank of whatever sport it is. force-ranked, statted.

Now, I love that ecosystem.

I love subjective and objective measures of growth.

I love that you get to see how you compare to other people.

I love that there is like rules to engage in.

And I love that there is a process and a performance-based approach to invest in to be your very best.

I love that part of it.

But when you put the psychological and emotional wellbeing of young developmental minds and parents that are a little stressed, a little overwhelmed they want the best for their kids and you've got these amateur coaches in the US with the most tender part of the growth arc of psychology the young whew like it's a dangerous proposition.

What should parents be thinking about then, if they want to put their kids into youth sports, or they want them to have activities to support their growth?

How can they combat against the youth sport system the way it's built now?

Parents need to be the greatest buffer.

I do not suggest that, my son is in youth sport.

I love youth sport.

I'm just saying it's dangerous.

Okay.

You're not saying take your kids out of soccer.

No, sport has taught me so much.

Sport is my working laboratory, both personally, as a kid, as a young adult, Even now, and it's been my working laboratory as a sports psychologist for working with World's Best for a long time.

So I don't have anything bad, but it is dangerous.

So what do parents need to do?

They need to be the greatest buffer.

They need to install all of the protective factors that will help their children frame themselves, that will help their children work with all of the heartbreak that comes from the majority of kids who don't get what they want.

And I'm talking about like, if you knew what I knew, that statement about the dangers of sport, you wouldn't push your kids because There's 001 of kids that make it in the pros 005, somewhere in that range of kids that make it to the pros.

A lot of them will be failures.

They will not achieve the hopes and dreams in sport that they might have.

But if you take it as a working laboratory to sort out how to work with mistakes, how to understand relationships, how to be the greatest teammate to yourself and the greatest teammate to other people that you possibly can be,

That ecosystem is rich, but you've got kind of knucklehead coaches.

And I had a conversation with one of my son's coaches and he's like so how'd the season go for you guys?

And I said for my son, it was really hard for us.

I'm really grateful that my wife and I were able to be buffers and be kind of resilient shepherds, if you will, for him.

And he looked at me with like, well, I was a little too honest.

I said yeah, it was.

You made some questionable calls and but gave us plenty of fodder to work against.

I mean.

At the same time, it's like these coaches probably aren't well-equipped or well-trained to lead 7 8, 12 15-year-olds psychologically emotionally, with the standards they have of trying to win every game, the pressures they have of their jobs on the line, or some of them don't even get paid.

So it's also figuring out.

How do we figure out how to support coaches that don't have the tools and training?

That's exactly the right question.

Parents as well as great coaches who aren't getting paid.

Yeah.

We don't have the right investment.

If in the U S, if we believe sport is a great ecosystem for growth, which we do, look at the numbers, you know.

If you're in the bottom one third of sport as a, as a boy in high school, it's even more dangerous.

Yes.

Being on the playground, not getting picked, being the one that everyone rolls their eyes.

If you stumble, fall, you're trying your best, but you're causing a slowdown.

That was me.

I was picked last in elementary school.

It was a formidable moment that drove me to win at all costs.

Yeah.

So you figured out how to... work with that pain, that rejection, that thing.

Yes.

In a destructive way that got results.

But it didn't make me feel fulfilled or happy or like at peace.

It made me feel like I always had to prove myself that they were wrong about me.

Yeah.

So you built what's classically called a performance based identity.

Yeah.

That I am what I do relative to how well you do what you do.

Sure.

And so that performance based identity is really tricky.

It can fuel you to be great at something.

Yes. but it will never allow freedom.

And I didn't have peace until I hit 30 when everything started to fall apart in my life.

And that's when I started to reflect and start doing healing work.

That gave me a sense of a different mission of life in the last 13 years.

And it's allowed me to have a lot more peace and freedom and be driven to accomplish and serve at the same time.

And you know, when people hear you say that, there's this fine line between like, well, he did it.

He drove himself to be, you know, one of the best in the world.

That I fill in the blanks and like okay, I'll sacrifice that for me too.

And it's kind of like saying the person who has all the toys, big boats, big cars, big house, big whatever, and and and like, and they say well, I had to grind and it was an unhealthy grind, I don't want that for you, like there's a better way, and they're like I want that yeah yeah, so how?

The question is, how?

Yeah, and you were asking the question like, what do we do with parents, you know, what do we do with coaches?

We have to invest.

You have, Either you have to invest in your psychology to understand how you work, so you have a chance to invest in another person's ability to grow.

It starts with self-discovery.

And just talk about coaches for a minute here.

We don't invest in youth sport coaches the way that other countries do.

There's a certification, a training model, minimum thresholds.

And here it's kind of, who do you know?

You're free.

Do you want to help out?

Oh, you played pro?

Or, oh, like, oh, wow, you're willing to?

Okay, come on in.

And it's not right.

It's one of the greatest ecosystems to understand who you are and how you can grow.

And at the same time, I guess American sports develops some of the greatest athletes in the world.

Because we have so many.

That and maybe because the stakes are so high at a young age not saying it's good, but maybe it's because there's such high expectations at such young ages.

Not saying it's healthy.

But maybe that also develops people to succeed under pressure at a high level.

Yeah, you're right for two reasons.

One, it's a pathway out for some.

It's an inspired way through for some.

But we're so sloppy because we have next human up approach.

So the washout in the US is uncanny.

And so you've got to be extraordinary to make an NFL team.

You have got to be extraordinary.

And we don't really have a youth development program.

We got a college program.

It's good.

But we don't really have.

So these are the most fit, most extraordinary, most powerful humans that have endured public humiliation a lot to get to that place.

And I've been in the NFL, I think, for like 14 or 15 years now, and um, as a sports psychologist, not as a um as an athlete yeah, be a punter, be clear um, and like just to be on the roster.

You have to be an extraordinary athlete and there is, there's no, two ways about it.

Is that the heartbreaks that they've gone through to get to where they are, but they have made and i do want to talk about this a fundamental commitment and this is, i think, a Really interesting takeaway for your community, maybe even for you Lewis, is that when you pull back the curtain on what happens in an NFL franchise, the vulnerability and courage expressed at the danger line I'll hold my place for danger line for a minute

Every day is remarkable.

Not just Sunday.

No, every day.

Every day on Monday, when you're potentially being called out for mistakes that you've made and or celebrations.

In front of your peers.

In front of your peers and your coaches.

Remember, your peers are trying to take your job.

Yes.

Your coaches are deciding if you play or not.

And to grow, you have to move to the danger line.

You have to move to that messy edge, that place where everything could fall apart or it could be a breakthrough.

And you have to be practiced at going to that danger line.

And most of us.

I mean when's the last time I'll take you out of it, because I think you're practiced at it.

But for most people we don't get to the danger line at work, in the living room, at home with our friends and, you know, like our loved ones, we don't practice getting to that emotional or in our physical messy edge and so we're unpracticed at getting to the required state to unlock what you're capable of.

They are not and they do it physically mentally emotionally, all these different things like.

And when you add the physical element on a daily basis, it's even more risky because so many guys get injured playing that sport where you have to endure years of potential injuries that you did not get or you overcame and you were able to come back from and continue on the danger line of potential injury and see guys go down.

That could have been you.

And it's like, I'm going to keep fighting.

That's right.

And then I'm going to face humiliation the next day from my coaches or from a peer or from the media.

I'm gonna get called out and i have to keep going.

That's why the best leaders and the best coaches understand what it takes and they do not add to it.

They support then challenge, so that, in that order, those two ingredients are incredibly important for anyone to become who they're capable of.

Support then challenge.

How do you support somebody?

You get to know them, you care about them, you really invest in understanding them so that you know how you can properly challenge them.

Support then challenge.

The best coaches really do understand that.

Yeah, because you're trying to challenge them as often as possible to get to the danger line.

I'm trying to help them rise to the occasion, but you have to understand and support them first, while before you challenge is what i'm hearing you say.

Well, the rise to the occasion.

No, I think it's rise.

It's not rising.

It's readying yourself psychologically to go to a place that is super unsettling because, by definition, you're not good at doing the thing on the messy edge.

So you got to get comfortable doing it.

Yeah.

And it sounds so trite, get uncomfortable or get comfortable being uncomfortable.

It's really foundational yeah, but i don't think it ever gets comfortable.

You just get more familiar.

Yeah, you're going to be okay after you do it like yeah, it gets a little bit easier, but it's still the easier it gets.

It's like you have to find new levels of danger.

That's right.

Emotionally psychologically relationally spiritually, physically yeah, to get to the next level and that danger word is super provocative, but it does feel dangerous when you're at the edge.

It feels like your life is going to be over, sometimes when you're having a vulnerable conversation with your partner and you feel like I can't say these words.

Well, because we know, you know, that our brain doesn't have redundancies built in like oh, this segment is for an emotional conversation and this segment is for a saber tooth tiger.

Like it's the same fight flight mechanisms and i think we don't.

We under celebrate fight flight.

We know those two freeze and submit that fourth one.

We under celebrate what does that mean?

To submit?

Um, as soon as it gets really intense and the emotional centers of your brain are louder than the reasoning parts of your brain and the emotions are running the show that we fight, we flee, we freeze and we submit.

And what submitting is, is like, we kind of roll over to power or authority and say, oh, I get it.

Oh yeah.

Now I see.

Now you're right.

You're right.

Yeah, but we have a big idea that we want to present, or we're complaining about something in the hallways and somebody says well, are you going to talk to Lewis about it?

Are you going to tell him how you feel and say you're the supervisor?

Yeah.

And then I set the meeting with you.

Takes a little courage.

And then I said it with you.

And then I say hey Lewis, there's this thing I was thinking about and I'm not sure it's a good idea or not.

I'm already hedging.

And then I say but you know, I need to tell you because some other people are kind of thinking about it.

And then I actually tell you and then you go, well, hold on.

And now you challenge me.

Do I fight?

No, I'm not going to fight you.

Do I freeze?

No, no, no, I'm not going to freeze.

I can't leave.

Body just heated up a little bit.

I'm starting to shake a little bit.

My heart pounding a little bit.

What's about to happen?

And then I submit.

You're right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, I didn't think about it that way.

But I'm not being honest.

I'm just reflexively doing whatever it takes to be okay in that moment.

To survive.

Literally, that's the survival mechanism.

Fight, flight, freeze, submit.

And in the hallways of enterprise and corporate and you know intense environments, is that submitting is a real choice, and it's unfortunate because we never feel really good about any of those responses.

So what's the response we should have?

That's not fight flight, freeze or submit um.

So first is understanding how those mechanisms work.

As soon as you interpret something to be dangerous or you're in an environment that is physically actually dangerous, your brain lights up in all the ways that I don't need to recount, but that's important.

The way either you perceive it or it actually is dangerous, you light up.

So you can extend the danger line by the way you perceive, okay?

So if I perceive like boy, you hold my future in my, you hold my future in your hands, that's really dangerous.

What I say next is could determine if I'm here in this job or not.

Yeah, so I've given a lot of, risk to your opinion of me.

And we name that for fun, FOPO, fear of people's opinions.

Right.

And so we'll get into that in a minute.

But that's one way you change the way that you're framing.

So if there's like, wait, hold on.

What I hold to be more important is working from first principles.

So first principle for me is something that matters to me.

I've I've thought deeply about how I want to operate on this planet.

And if it's honesty, let's say or it's having somebody else's back or it is fill in the blanks.

Whatever first principle could be, then I need to operate from that, even in dangerous situations, even in emotionally risky situations.

So that rearranges the danger line because of the perception.

Then you need to practice being in those intense environments as often as you possibly can.

And that's what elite sport does.

Youth sports meant to be that way, but that's what elite sport does is.

It fundamentally creates an environment for people to get up on the edge, because that's where growth happens.

And then the third is having a whole set of psychological skills while you're in that emotionally charged environment to regulate breathing self-talk.

You know knowing how to work with your, with yourself, if you will.

And that's really what psychology is, knowing yourself and how to work well with yourself.

What would you say if you could only give three psychological tools for everyday human beings elite performers, underperformers on how to have better performance in their own life under stressful conditions or under any condition?

What would be if you can only share three tools that they could use, three psychological, emotional tools to improve your life, no matter how complicated or simple they are?

What would those three tools be?

A life commitment to self-discovery.

Okay, so let's call that bucket one.

The second what do i mean?

Hold on.

What i mean by self-discovery?

Like to really know yourself, to really know how you work.

So understand you first on why you react and why you respond and why you feel think that's right.

Yeah, really understand yourself.

And self-discovery processes are ubiquitous, like what is your purpose?

What's your vision for a better life?

What's your personal philosophy?

Know how you work.

The second is practices for awareness, so that you can become aware of how your internal environment is working, so that you can adjust.

Okay, so awareness is kind of the main theme.

How do you invest in awareness?

There's three.

Meditation, journaling, or conversations with people of wisdom.

It's really one of the great benefits, if you will, of meditation.

Yes, it's a practice for deep concentration.

Yes, it's a practice for insight and wisdom, which are not to be understated in any way.

But it's the practice of becoming aware of what's happening inside and what's happening outside of me.

And without awareness, we're kind of stuck.

And then the third are psychological skills.

And I think, the big one probably that most of us need right now.

I'll do 3A and 3B.

Self-talk and breathing would be the two simple ones there knowing how to speak to yourself to back yourself, and knowing how to breathe to down regulate in this high speed, high stress world that we're all in.

Why do so many people have a limiting self-talk, a negative self-talk, a limiting self-talk instead of a positive or encouraging self-talk?

Oh, we borrowed that, we built it from an early age.

Really, that's a protective mechanism.

I know it, I lived it.

How does that protect you when you talk negatively versus you got this, versus like being a positive coach to yourself?

It's maladaptive, first of all, but it's a self-esteem saving mechanism.

How does it save your self-esteem to talk negatively about self?

Because if you say you got this, you can do it.

Oh man, you're amazing.

And then you go for it and it doesn't work out.

Then what?

It's really, it stings.

It hurts.

It's like, man, maybe I can't.

Maybe I've been lying to myself.

Maybe that's all BS.

And maybe I am a loser failure, whatever.

So it it pulls you into safety.

When you say yeah, you're not built for that kind of stuff, that's for other people.

Big money, big happy, big joy, that's for other people, you know.

So you're pulling yourself back into like a regression to safety and it's maladaptive.

And if somebody had said to you at some point Like you're kind of stupid now,

Or like, did you really decide to wear a black shirt?

Like, really?

So there's a negative critical kind of lens.

Then you adopt a negative critical lens.

And because you've learned it, that's just how people work.

And they don't really realize that there's a whole set of people that are free, that are like wow, black is amazing on you.

Like, yeah, that's a cool choice, man.

I should try that out too.

Like there's a whole nother universe of people that see potential and see buoyancy and open up the aperture for what could be, as opposed to judge critique, niche down.

You know like try to have you be something less, have you be something different by seeing less.

How does someone listening or watching overcome a self-critical identity that they've had their entire lives?

Maybe it wasn't their fault at all and they just adopted it from parents or peers or coaches, and they just adopted this self-critical identity.

How do they start to say, you know what?

Actually, the last 20, 30 years, I'm not those things, even though I said I was those things.

And I'm not going to beat myself up for doing that to myself.

And now I'm going to think positively about what is possible.

But I have no evidence of that because I've never believed it.

So am I going to lie to myself?

Am I an imposter?

Like, how do they actually start to build that?

I think that question... is maybe it's a whole workshop.

That's a lot, but like the spirit of it is very cool.

It begins with awareness first.

Like, what are you actually saying to yourself about yourself?

Are you an above the line coach or below the line?

Are you backing yourself and seeing what's possible above the line?

Below the line, are you critiquing, judging?

If you're like yeah, I'm a below the line coach to myself damn, I would never want somebody to hear the way I speak to myself.

And I would never speak to somebody else I care about the way that I speak to myself.

Like if you're in that category, there's a lot of work to do, but you can do it.

One, it begins with awareness.

And then it begins with, again, a fundamental commitment.

Like fundamentally commit to know how to work with yourself.

I'm going to oversimplify the mind-brain connection for a minute.

The brain is the hardware, the mind is the software.

That idea, it's way too, it's not this simple.

But the software runs the hardware.

The mind runs the brain and you can train the software.

You can rewrite the code.

You can say and do whatever you want.

You can say whatever you want to yourself.

The trick is it must be grounded in something that is real.

So fake it till you make it.

I don't buy it.

I don't want my medical provider to fake it till he makes it.

I don't have tattoos, but I wouldn't want my tattoo artist to fake it.

I don't want anything fake.

I want to know that what I'm investing in is real.

So if you're gonna speak to yourself in a way that is positive, let's just say I don't do the positive, negative thing very well.

But if you're gonna speak to yourself in a way that is productive, I call it the epic thought list.

For every epic thought that you want to say to yourself.

What are three experiences in your life that give you the right to say that?

For example, I know one statement that really helps me.

When I say to myself, I can do hard things.

I can face the dragon.

I can really bite down and be about it when it's hard.

Those are three sentences I just said.

What gives me the right to say that?

And if I'm very clear about the three things in my life that have given me the right to say that, then I can say it.

Why not say it?

Because it gives me a certain vibe.

I'll tell you where this came from.

I was working with a UFC fighter and it was a championship fight.

And he was aware that he would tighten up before he goes into the cage.

17,000 screaming fans, millions of people watching, equally talented person across the cage.

Some have the bad intentions, like there's a lot of violence in this sport.

And he was very, very skilled.

I said, what's it like when you're at your best?

And he looked at me like I had four heads or something.

Nothing, it's just super clean, like i'm not saying anything.

He was talking about flow state, the zone, if you will yeah, i said okay, when you're working to be at your best, like what's happening inside you, and he goes let me, let me give you the locker room.

Okay, there's a little.

You can bleep it out if you need to.

Yeah um, i'm a tough mother yeah, and i go oh, he's saying that to himself, that's right.

And but i asked him What are you saying to yourself when it's really good to be inside of you?

You're working to be your best.

And he goes, he looked at me and he's like, oh, I'm a tough mother.

That's what he's saying.

And kind of unimpressed, I said, well, I don't know.

Can you back that up?

And he says, yeah.

And he looked at me like, are you questioning me?

And so when I was 14, I whooped my dad's ass.

I mean, yeah, you're a tough mother ever.

Yeah.

And then, so I pause again and I see how far I could take it.

And I said, well, you got anything else?

Yeah.

And he looked at me again kind of like and he goes yeah, my last fight um in the cage, I'm getting choked out.

I broke the choke hold, put them on my back, dragged the other dude across the cage, dumped him, finished the fight.

And he looked at me, he says, I'm a tough mother.

Hmm.

So I go, all right, I mean, do you got anything else?

And then he kind of leans up in his you know he's got the bald head tattoo scrolling up his neck like lumpy as a human can be.

And he leans at the edge of the table and he goes.

If someone were to ask me one more question, I might choke him out.

Okay, we're done.

But the idea is he had three things in his back pocket that gave him the right to say I'm a tough MF-er.

And what we can all learn from that is like, how do you back yourself and speak to yourself?

And that takes time to practice.

And what gives you the right to say those things to yourself?

We've all been through hard times.

We've all been through real challenges.

I think, the best in the world.

They have those things right at the surface and they're using it to help them meet the challenges.

They're using that awareness and self-talk to back themselves as they go into a challenging moment.

Yeah.

So again, they know themselves.

They have practices for awareness.

If they're feeling chaotic or not in the moment, they have practices to get back in the moment.

And then they have self-talk, breathing and other psychological tools that they have practiced and trained to be able to Not rise to the occasion but rise to their standards of training, which just happens to be the moment.

That's how you meet the moment.

Yes.

Whatever the moment is demanding, can you step into your best capabilities and meet that moment?

Because you've trained it and practiced it over and over again.

That's right.

When I was in that car accident, I met that moment to my best ability.

The moment was really more after the moment.

It was like, I just got hit 70 miles an hour.

Thank God I'm okay.

You know, a little banged up and shaken and a little scared.

But am I going to freaking scream and beat this guy up?

Or am I going to like somehow compose myself a little bit to not, you know, have the flag be on me?

You know, it's always the second response in football.

It's not the guy who punches the guy in the face.

It's the guy who then spits in, the guy after he gets punched in the face who gets flagged and ejected.

That's great.

That's a great framing.

You know, that's...

You work in football that long, you've seen it.

Guys, it's a heated moment and you guys went a little long after the whistle's done and you punched and then just you had to react.

You had to get the last punch in, didn't you?

Yeah, that's it.

Yeah, well done.

You know, it's not easy.

No one likes having a cheap shot or something that's like risking their life.

That's not fair.

That's not within the boundaries of the rules of life or sport or relationship.

We don't like that feeling.

It's interesting you bring up fairness.

Of all the virtues, like I really value working from values.

So go back to that idea about first principles is that how do you develop your first principles?

You just kind of get your values in line.

Like what are the handful of values that matter most to you?

That's a good exercise in and of itself.

And then how do you express that value?

Say honesty.

That's a value.

And then somebody might say their first principle is brutal honesty.

That's not mine.

Somebody else might say radical honesty.

So first principle is the way you're expressing that value.

And I think fairness, I don't like it.

It's one of the few values I have a real hard time with because I don't know one system really.

That's fair.

Yeah, it's not a value for me.

I'm just putting that out there as like, within the rules of whatever the context of the moment is, I guess.

Yeah, it's super interesting because my son's school is it's one of their core values is fairness.

Yeah.

Life isn't fair.

Yeah.

And so I got to create fairness within.

No, it's like, it's complex.

It's complicated.

Life is complicated.

And fairness, I don't think is the virtue to work from.

Maybe you got to take them out of that school.

Yeah.

That's not your value.

Get them out of there.

But I want to go back to this thing about 84%.

I think this is what you said, or maybe what's true is that 84 of the world population kind of lives on an I want to call them average, but deviates at, I guess, an average standard of living in terms of.

Is that what you said?

Like quality of life.

Or just like they're not, what did you say?

84% is the average, right?

Yeah.

That's plus or one minus standard deviation from the norm.

Gotcha.

So, in terms of like peak performers, there's like The elite.

Elite is 05, I think is what you said, or a half a percent.

I call it the half percenters, just to kind of conjure up the Michael Jordans of the world.

So then there's like 12 or 13 of the rest of the people that are peak performers or above average performers.

There's a range of that peakness down to the 1%, obviously, versus 10% of a range.

But then the 84 would be, you know, in the average of everyone else in terms of income, in terms of like their skill sets and capabilities right,

I think even joy and happiness too.

And joy and happiness too.

Yeah.

I agree.

What would you say is the difference between the 16 of people that are living above average in their sport business career, inner emotional state relationships, versus the 84 who are not living at that standard?

One, we need to adjust for genetic coding.

Two, we need to adjust for environmental conditions.

And three, we need to adjust for psychological skills.

So the skills, by definition, are something that you can build and train.

And there is.

Depending on what research you're looking at, there's a combination of all three that are important to consider.

While we cannot change our genetic coding, what are we gonna do about it?

Like, it is what it is.

You can maximize it.

Yeah, my height and your height are different.

And I need to figure out what's good for my height.

You need to figure out what's good for your height, right?

As a genetic coding, if you will.

So there's a genetic influence on happiness and joy.

We don't know exactly what it is, but there's some coding that we think, just like there's some coding that leads people to be a little bit more depressed.

So one, there's a genetic influence, two, there's environmental.

But what can we really invest in that has an outsized impact is your psychological skills.

So what are the skills that we know that are best practices to lead a good life?

Come to find out Harvard did an 85 year study.

I know you're aware of the study, the good life study.

And the two main findings out of that study are purpose and connection.

Okay, what does that mean?

That means folks that have somebody to love, folks that are part of a community that are of interest to them.

People have more connections that matter to them.

They tend to report having a better life.

Okay, so what do you need to do yourself to have somebody to love?

Well, you give what you have.

If you have love, you can give it.

So it's not having people love you.

That's not in your control.

So the flexion here, the hinge is that you have people to love.

But if you're anxious, if you're tired, if you're overwhelmed, if you're irritated, if you're agitated, then that's what you give people.

And then they, now you don't have a community that is like amazingly fruitful.

So you have to, it's what you're able to give.

All right, so that's the connection.

And if you're relying on someone else to fix your state of anxiety or stress or not enoughness feelings, then you're attracting people maybe that are like yeah, that you're just kind of like codependent, I guess, right.

It's like, hey, I need you to make me feel safe in this moment.

That's probably not going to help you have more joy and happiness if they don't give you exactly what you need.

Or if they're like hey, this doesn't work for me anymore, then you're depressed for years, let's go stay here one more turn.

Is that?

Viktor Frankl, Edith Edgar like survivalists of concentration camps and the most deplorable conditions on earth, they say the same thing.

It is actually not the environment, but it's the way that you're framing, the way that you are interpreting the experiences around you, and that can be enhanced and developed as well.

And so- And you could look at the head-on collision as like the worst thing that's ever happened to you.

This isn't fair.

Yeah.

And this kid did this wrong and he was on his phone and I almost died.

And what did we just ruin my life?

You could do all these things and you could give that meeting and interpretation of that.

But you seem like yeah, maybe there was some, still some stuff you're dealing with, but you're, you're seem fine.

A month later, like you've interpreted it in a way that you've interpreted it.

Maybe it's given you a greater sense of purpose even, and more connection and love, but it doesn't seem like it's stopped you from living your purpose.

But it's not just that moment, that grand thing that happened.

It's how I practice every day is like, but think about what I'm practicing is like, I have, I don't know, however, minutes a day experiences that correspond, you know, and I literally want to live a just a great life and i think you want the same for yourself so i take the responsibility to say independent of my genetic coding independent of where i live and i have i've got some really nice i was born on second base and i know it you know i've got some really nice things i live in a great area my parents were great yeah they're complicated but they're great you know and like so i i'm not lost on where i started the the yeah you know the the sport of life if you will But it is my job, I feel like, to figure out how to make it as good as I possibly can And I am constantly working to rise to acute stressors, like I want great acute stress and then radical recovery.

So for every unit of stress I spend in a day, I want radical units of recovery to match it.

So I'm not talking about rising to occasion.

I'm talking about rising to that fever pitch of intensity so I can unlock some new capabilities, because that's where I learn what I'm truly capable of.

And then i need equal needs of recovery and so that's, that's like an everyday activity.

And i did the same in the car crash, i did the same with you and i'll do the same when i go home.

And sure um, it might sound exhausting but it's actually quite fluid.

I think you know like it's not, it's not some maniacal person, you know, in that way, What would you say someone can do to train their nervous system to feel calm and ready during stressful moments and to feel safe under pressure?

Oh, I don't think you feel safe under pressure.

Not really.

Yeah, I don't think you feel safe.

I think you can like the idea that pressure is a privilege.

Yes, it doesn't mean it's comfortable.

Yeah, it's not comfortable.

There's nothing.

It's not man.

It could be fun in moments, but it doesn't mean it's comfortable.

It's really agitating.

Yeah, you know um, the whole world is watching you when everything's on the line, when it's like this is make or break, and the whole world can be like the board of directors that you're pitching an idea to it like or, you know, family members, your world yeah yeah, yeah.

So how do we train the nervous system to feel safe under pressure then?

No, I don't think we feel safe.

We don't.

No, I think by definition, it's not safe.

I think you're on the danger line.

Ah, okay.

Okay.

And then, but you need to frame like, yes, I'm in it.

Great.

This is where the unlocks happen.

This kind of stress makes me, let's go.

I'm built for this.

This is what I want.

That type of framing will open the aperture to give you better access to your skills.

What I just said is very, very, very technical, okay?

That's when you need the positive self-talk training.

That's when you need the breath work.

You need to know yourself.

That's when you need all of it to be like, we're in that moment.

Now let's put these things into practice.

Yeah.

And I would say I'm going to go back and I know I said positive, but I really don't use that language.

It's productive.

Yes.

Like I'm, I'm, I'm backing myself.

I'm framing.

Yeah.

It's not like, Hey, it's all going to work out.

Optimism is awesome.

No, it is a fundamental skill that I have not yet met a world's best that has changed in industry.

Maybe even the global rhythm that is not fundamentally optimistic.

So if you want to take that page, I think that that's a signal that it's good to train optimism.

That's a good thing to invest in.

I have not yet met a world's best that is not fundamentally optimistic.

Why not invest in it then?

Okay.

I have not yet met the most happy and joyous people on the planet that I've got to work with that are not fundamentally optimistic.

Yeah.

There's a place for pessimism and skepticism and cynicism.

There's a place for that, but those are saving mechanisms.

Not baseline mechanisms.

No.

Yeah.

Optimism is this.

I'm not talking about toxic optimism or like this.

It's a orientation about how you see the future.

Do I believe that the best is yet to come?

Do I believe that good is yet to come?

Yeah.

Do I believe I can overcome any challenges coming my way?

Yeah.

That's more efficacy.

Just to be kind of parse the applied science here.

Yeah.

So what you just said is you're anchoring in self-efficacy.

What does that mean versus?

Optimism is like a fundamental belief that things work out as long as I work it.

Yes.

Okay.

That the best is yet to come, that there's something good that's going to come out of this, but that you know that you have to work it.

And you picked up on that second hit.

Mm-hmm. which is the efficacy piece.

So let's, this will be just for fun.

Optimism is the fundamental belief it's gonna work out.

Agency is that I get to choose in my life how I go about it.

That's a powerful position in this wild world.

My interpretation and actually what I do.

The action steps I take.

Yeah, that is what Viktor Frankl and Edith Ager pointed to is that I choose.

The response.

That's right.

Okay.

I am going to choose.

Even though you have taken away...

All of the human dignity rights that I'm talking about the Nazi concentration camps.

I'm still in charge of choosing.

What did Viktor Frankl say between- Stimulus and response, there's a choice.

He's attributed to that, but we can't actually find it.

And if somebody can find it in your community, please send it to me.

I never got to meet him, but I love that man.

He has taught me so much.

Same with Edith.

She's great.

I've interviewed her twice.

Yeah, me too.

She's amazing.

Powerful.

Okay, so agency is like I get to choose.

And then efficacy is when I choose and how I choose, I got some power to flex on it.

So efficacy means power.

Do you believe that you have power over how you navigate life?

Not what life is going to give you, but do you believe you have the power to do it?

And that is squarely pointing to psychological skills.

And if you cannot regulate your emotional system, if you cannot regulate your arousal system, your heart rate and all, if you can't regulate, you can't be powerful.

Gosh, I'm so glad you're saying this.

And I want you to say it again in a moment, because I had a brain surgeon who had done over a thousand brain surgeries, who's also a PhD in neuroscience.

So he studied the mind, but also the brain, right?

Both of these things we're talking about.

And I said what's the number one skill?

That if you could only recommend one skill to all human beings to live a better life, what would it be?

And he said, emotional regulation.

And that's just what I'm hearing you say.

You don't have the ability to regulate your nervous system, your thoughts, your emotions, your interpretations, even you're not gonna perform well when pressure is on the line or perform well at all in life.

You're gonna have a harder, more challenging life.

Oh, well, I mean, super clear.

I'm nodding my head to it.

And if you think about the model thoughts emotions, behavior and those three, the swirl of those three is really the output is what performance is.

If you have high-performing thoughts, high-performing emotions, performing behaviors, you'll get to a high performance output.

You will.

Yeah, you may not get the exact results you're looking for, but you're gonna get better results than most.

I'm not interested in thinking about outcomes.

I want, i want, and everyone that i work with like we all want the same, we all want the gold medals yeah, i want the, the world championships, we all want million dollar contracts.

Yeah yeah, all that stuff.

But i wanted all those when i was in fourth grade, like yeah, yeah.

But what I didn't understand as a young mind is the relationship between inputs and outputs.

So what you and I were just talking about were the outputs.

What I didn't understand is how to maximize the inputs, how to focus on the things that I have control over.

Maximize those.

It puts me in a position of power, a position of high leverage, so that it's more likely that those outcomes could happen.

But then I need to also double back on this, is love the unfolding nature of the process.

Now I'm winning.

Yes.

Because you're loving life every day.

Okay.

It sounds so like trite when you and I in your cushy, you know, studio and like, but like.

It's true though, man.

But I'm a thousand percent backed by this idea that if you do not love the way that you live your life and then you will go get an extraordinary outcome.

This is not the right way.

And the outcome isn't satisfying.

No.

I was working with another world champion wrestling.

And I was in the stadium when he won his championship.

And the referee or umpire, I can't remember the name, put his hand up.

In the moment of celebration, world championship, boom.

And he was crying.

And he came off and he said, Mike, did you see those tears?

I was like, yeah.

I didn't know what they were about.

And I didn't know if there were tears of joy, tears of relief.

I didn't know what it was.

And he said, he goes, yeah, you know what?

I realized in that moment, I thought I was going to feel different.

I hate wrestling.

Wow.

But I know I've got to keep going to make my dad happy.

Oh my gosh.

It's crazy, isn't it?

Yeah, man.

Much of your psychology is related to your parents.

I know that we...

Oh, blame it on your mom.

Blame it on your dad.

No, it's not that.

Most parents try their best, but they're dealing with their own stuff.

And then they had us.

And they didn't know how to have a great kind of approach to life.

Unless yours were amazing.

They might have been.

I don't know.

But they're trying to figure out their stuff.

We're all trying to figure it out.

Yeah.

And I'm not convinced that people are investing properly in that investment.

As a elite performance psychologist coach, I'm a new parent.

I've got twin daughters that are two and a half months old.

If you could give me, or any parent, advice on how to create the best environment possible.

No matter how good we try to be, kids are gonna interpret things how they want to still.

But if you're like hey, Do these three things and you're at least going to set up the best structure environment, thinking process for your kids to have a good life and potentially be in the top 14 of performers and whatever they do, what would that be without them feeling this pressure to get love from me or my wife if they perform or not perform, like any of that stuff?

To eliminate that where they say I'm gonna feel love no matter what and I still wanna thrive?

Well, you've got it.

I keep asking that question, okay?

If there's three things to do, keep asking that question.

How do I get better at it?

Because I haven't observed and I haven't seen and I don't know, I can't really start.

Sure for you to answer that in a satisfying way, but in general i would say, keep asking how to be your best.

Cool number two is support.

Then challenge and build your relationship on unconditional, positive regard for the uniqueness of that child yeah, and that's the support mechanism.

And then challenge them, whatever that they're doing, to apply themselves in their very best way, And it's not about the output.

It's not about the outcome.

It's about challenging to just be your very best at what you're doing.

And look, there's time sensitive things.

Cause when kids are eight years old and they're washing the dishes or like you know, like this is not like wash that dish better, you can do better.

Yeah, just support, then challenge.

And then then the third build a community of people that really value the human experience in a way that is like joyful and fun and like because they're watching.

Yes, and so keep growing yourself, support and challenge and then build your community of intentional people.

I love those.

And I think, you know, a lot of people put their self-worth based on how they perform.

That's performance-based identity.

Yes.

That is a massive problem done.

Yes.

So why do so many people confuse performance with self-worth and how do they separate the two that they know they're worthy no matter how well they perform or if they fail or succeed?

Well, that's a very Western frame, which is your value is coupled with what you do and how well you do it.

That's a very Western frame. your kids are going to grow up in the Western world probably.

And by the time they go to third grade in our state of California that they're going to kind of be force ranked.

They're going to be given grades at some point.

And then they're going to ask their friends, how'd you do?

And okay, so we're starting to learn performance identity early here.

And so decoupling what they do from who they are is part of your job.

How do you do that?

Would you shine the spotlight on like?

They matter because they breathe.

They matter because um, the way that they show up in the world and generous, they're kind, they're compassionate yeah yeah, and so, as a as a general exercise, my wife and i, when our son was born, we said hey listen, let's be clear on the values that we want to build.

And so we wrote down a bunch of values.

She had two pages.

I had two pages.

And then we said, okay, let's circle five that, you know, they're most interesting.

I circle five, she circle five.

We came back around and we agreed on two that we were going to invest that first handful of years on.

And it was very clear.

It's still the same two now is kindness and strength.

So we want our son to be kind and strong.

And so that's what we're trying to build more than anything else.

And performance flows from there.

So what can you do?

Know the values that matter to you, orientate that with your partner and then go to work on those things.

And so you gotta be those values first though.

You can't teach what you don't have, back to that idea.

Because they're going to model who you are, not what you say, I'm assuming, right?

Yeah.

I mean they're going to watch you and say, all right, dad's telling me to do this, but he's not doing it.

That's right.

They're going to judge it internally.

A hundred percent.

So performance-based identity.

The other thing is like if you are leading a performance-based life, and I think you might fall into this trap.

I think that you're on the performance clip, high performance and dah, dah, dah, dah.

I would offer another hinge.

Okay.

To explore purpose-based.

And I think you have that too.

Yes.

Right?

Both add, yeah.

Yeah.

And I'm not sure that you can totally do both.

Okay.

Okay?

Yeah.

All right.

But if your performance is in service of purpose.

That's what it is.

Okay.

So if it's stacked correctly, you have a chance.

But the greatest movers of industry, of the world rhythm that I talked about, whether it's Gandhi or Buddha or whatever like.

They were purpose-driven.

So what is your purpose?

I'm not asking you outright, but- No, I know my purpose.

My purpose is to serve and impact 100 million lives weekly to help them improve the quality of their life.

Okay.

To me, that sounds like a mission.

Okay.

So do you want to play it out a little bit?

Sure.

Yeah.

And I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

Yeah, yeah.

But when i, when i hear a number attached to it, i hear like that's the mission, that's the hill i want to climb, that's just the clarity, that's just the, the aim, you know.

That's like all right, as opposed to i just want to help people.

What does that mean?

Yeah, so you're niching it down a little bit more.

It's like being clear on, so i know how i can start to implement and execute that.

Yeah, so you, you're collapsing purpose and mission.

So, but purpose is really the fancy way for saying like why Yeah?

And so can you say it again, like so I can hear why this matters to you?

I mean I want to call mission but my, my purpose to serve and impact 100 million lives weekly to help them improve the quality of their life.

Dope.

So why is that important to you?

Because I dealt with a lot of pain and suffering internally most of my life and I don't want people to suffer the way I did.

I want them to have the psychological tools, the emotional skills, to understand why they suffer, so they can get out of suffering and then hopefully improve the quality of their relationships around them and have a loving beautiful, rich life.

Yeah, so you just well, i knew that there's nothing new in there for you.

You have thought deeply and written about it and shared that with many people.

That second part you shared your purpose with your methodology, like the how right and the purpose is clear.

Because you suffered, you want to help relieve suffering.

Yes okay, that's a purpose.

Now that's a purpose so i can say i can help end suffering.

But it's like okay, it's kind of broad yeah, and i think you would fine-tune that a little bit more than that.

But why do the mission?

You've got a clear mission.

How many people?

A hundred million lives weekly.

And I've never hit that.

But the goal is to reach and serve a hundred million lives weekly and help them improve the quality of their life.

Okay.

So I'm even more clear that that's a great mission.

That ambition is awesome.

Why?

Because I know what it's like to suffer.

And I want to do everything I possibly can during this lifetime to help people live their best, whatever fill in the blanks.

So I totally get you now in that respect.

It's awesome.

And it's bold.

It is bold.

It gives me something exciting.

It demands me, it requires me to live a standard for my life every single day, to wake up and do things that allow me to generate those types of I don't know if you want to call it results or impact or influence or value into the world, so that people can either learn in a certain way, so that I can get guests like yourself to reveal this research and this information, so they have the tools, so they can start applying it.

It requires me to continue to make better, whatever systems around here.

Hire more people, make more, all these things.

So what you're saying there is like your mission, your purpose that's underneath the surface and your method to go about it.

Uh, provide bumpers to make decisions, of course yeah, so your decisions are kind of lined up through that and when you're, when you're outside of those bumpers, you're off mission, off purpose, off method.

Yeah, when you make decisions that are out of alignment uh, something's off.

That's right.

You're asking me about how's the business growing?

It's like I don't say yes to certain money also.

I could be making a lot more, but I don't bring on alcohol brands.

I don't bring on gambling brands because I don't feel like that serves people.

Sure, they can do it if they want to, but me promoting something that isn't serving, or at least serving, to the best of its abilities.

You know, it's like, you know, Not everything is perfect.

And, you know, maybe something has a little sugar in it.

It's like okay, but it's like, if you're promoting something that is poison or addictive or something like that, it's like that's an alignment with what I'm teaching.

So I don't want to take a million dollars for it.

It's not going to feel right.

For someone else, it might feel perfect.

Yeah, no problems.

No critique, no judgment, whatever you're going to do.

It's just not in alignment to my mission.

And we all have like.

Whether clearly articulated or not, we do have first principles we're working from.

We do have a reason why.

And for most people, it is like unexamined.

It's like, I just...

I want to be okay.

So I need to make some money.

And I want to be okay.

So I need some attention from other people.

I want to be okay.

So I need to know I'm part of something.

And I've been in that place back in my 20s when you're like you just got to make money and get out of the situation.

I get it.

Yeah.

You've changed since we first met.

How so?

I was a lot more performance driven.

Yeah.

You've changed.

When was that?

20...

I don't know, it was like 15, 16.

Yeah, you've changed.

I've gone through a lot of healing.

This is good.

Yeah, I can feel it for you.

Well done.

So you, I mean, you, I think you're asking the questions more for your community.

I think you are a good learner.

You are genuinely interested, but I also think you've done a lot of work.

I can just feel it.

Oh man, I've gone deep.

I mean, I'm talking years.

I was doing six to eight hour Saturday or Sunday sessions with therapists all day sessions for years because I said how do I continue to get better so I can serve my mission?

I didn't want to do that.

I wanted to go to the beach and hang out and watch football all day on weekends in sunny California.

This was years of me saying, what's it going to take for me to improve?

How can I overcome this suffering?

Why do I keep making these mistakes?

How do I improve?

How do I get better?

How do I serve people in my life better? and I'm still not perfect.

It's not going to be perfect, but it's an improvement path that I've had to have so much courage.

For me that was an emotional courage to face people, create boundaries, face myself all these things to heal wounds of the past and get to the danger zone that you talk about emotionally psychologically, with people I care about.

And people you've hurt.

And people where you've hurt me and all these things.

Yeah.

And it's like it's been years of intense six to eight hour sessions on weekends every single week not right now, but in the past, you know, five years i was doing that and it's given me such an emotional freedom that i've never had in my life because i was willing to go there not just once or not just for a week, but like weekly for years.

And it doesn't feel good and it's not enjoyable, but I wanted what was possible for me to feel incredible amounts of peace and love, because I'd never felt it.

And I was like, I'll do whatever it takes to get it.

That's amazing, dude.

I can tell, I can feel it.

And I had pain in my chest for years.

Just a ball of pain and a clinchiness in my throat from different things that I wasn't able to address emotionally or psychologically.

That was just like stacking inside of me and just clinging to my nervous system.

And I could train hard with the best of them and work hard and make money and succeed and grow, but I wasn't feeling peace and love.

Momentarily, maybe, but not like a continual feeling of it.

I didn't feel emotionally safe in my body.

And it feels incredible to feel emotionally safe.

It's the greatest gift I've ever given myself is emotional freedom.

And I want it for everyone because I know how painful life is when you don't have it.

No amount of money or success or fame will give you peace if you don't have it already.

You know this from working with the top.

There's an amazing documentary, which I'm sure you've either heard of or seen, called The Weight of Gold.

I don't know if you've seen this.

Of course, yeah.

And it is so powerful.

It's about all these Olympic gold medalists, or medalists who've won the gold after 25 years of searching for this goal and then either committed suicide, gone through depression, ruined their life within a year after the Olympics being over.

The pressure of success, thinking this is going to solve all my problems, it's not.

It's not.

And if people knew this, I just think it would give them a sense of again, like you said, they wouldn't be needing to perform.

They'd be more focused on purpose and living a life doing challenging things daily, acute challenges, like you said, daily because they love the process, not because they need the result to make them feel happy.

Yeah, you've got the mechanics of it.

And I'm doing my best to try to shout this from the rooftops and bring people like you, who are the best in the world teaching it, to validate these things.

I'm trying to learn these myself and then implement it and integrate it into my life towards my dreams.

And my dreams are no longer just for me.

You know, when I was a kid, it was, I want to be a pro athlete because it was like a selfish goal.

And now, as I was telling you before, like the last time I saw you, we were in Paris at the Olympics.

And I was telling you beforehand that I went there because I knew there was still a dream inside of me that I haven't fulfilled.

But it wasn't just about me.

It was about.

What would it be like to you know the times that I felt the most goosebumps and the most inspiration and the most charge in my life is not when I see the most talented person in the world accomplish what they're supposed to accomplish.

It's the underdogs.

It's the old person.

It's the guy who was too young, who wasn't supposed to make it.

It's this person who had a dream that they still went for.

I get chills just thinking about it.

And they fulfilled a dream and it inspired a generation.

It inspired a world, a community, a family of people to say wow, what they had to overcome to get there, or what they endured, or how they committed to it.

That, what do you call it?

That fundamental commitment that they had to have for the last decade for 10 seconds.

I don't care if they won or lost.

You're like, that story I'll remember.

You know who's the guy gosh, Derek Redmond.

Derek, who's the guy who got hurt in the Olympics, in the Barcelona Olympics?

He was running the 400 and he pulled his hamstring and his dream was to win a medal but he lost the moment he like had to pull up in his hamstring.

And his dad came out from the fricking, you remember this story?

His dad comes out onto the track and carries him across the finish line.

Sure, he lost in the Olympics, but people still talk about that 40 years later.

Through relationships, we become.

Through our relationship with ourself, through our relationship with others, through relationship with experience, through relationship with setbacks and successes, through relationships we become.

So part of our job is to build the right psychological broth to be great with relationships, self and others.

That's it, and that that is something that is available to all of us.

Yeah, and you know your, i hear your passion my, my passion is taking these best practices that the best in the world have shown me, the laboratory of science, of psychology has shown me, and to take those and share them with people that would not have access, and that's in the enterprise, business world.

So the folks that i am most jazzed about is taking those best practices from world's best And then the kind of everyday worker in a corporate environment.

Our biggest clients are like Microsoft and Salesforce and they're running the same playbook in their organization to set the intentional psychological skills training, the same way we set that in in pro sport.

Yeah, and if i can democratize what i've learned behind the velvet rope of high performance for folks like me, for folks like you, which you're well on the path, but for folks that would never have access, i feel really good yeah, about the investment that these people have made.

Yeah, and that that's where i'm at with like the passion I'm curious as we get to.

I want to wrap it up here soon but, speaking of the last time I saw you, I saw you because I was in the lobby in Paris.

Yeah, how about it?

Meeting the handball coach for Barcelona.

Yeah.

And you were in the lobby there and we bumped into each other and you were coaching, you know, some Olympic team.

Yeah.

And I went there because I still wanted to see if this dream was alive.

And so it's kind of synchronistic that we're meeting now.

And the last time I saw you was in Paris.

I was meeting with one of the top coaches in the world to see if he would have me on his team in Spain.

And I remember it's crazy because I feel like I'm time traveling.

And in that moment there was like a time travel moment for me, because I was like oh, I'm meeting the top sports psychologist in the world as I'm pursuing my dream.

And it was like a synchronistic sign.

Oh, really?

Keep going.

Yes.

No, we had a quick like 10 seconds.

Yeah.

For me, there were so many things that were telling me.

That's cool.

Cause I was like, ah, should I go to Paris or not?

And I go, I just need to buy a ticket.

I need to watch a handball game and see if it's inside of me.

And I got there and the whole game, I just have chills rushing down my whole body.

And it's just like, you have to continue.

It doesn't mean the goal is going to happen, but I just knew I had to continue.

And then I meet you and I'm like, It's like this whisper, my neck is like whispering, keep going.

It doesn't mean it's like guaranteed, but you gotta keep going.

And it's been a year and a half since then.

This was August, 2024.

We're in January, 2026 recording this. and I'm two and a half years out from the Olympics.

There's no guarantee, but I'm doing all the steps I need to training recovery coaching, you know, acquiring the LA handball team.

I'm doing all the things building relationships with the European teams, doing everything I can to support USA handball, investing in the sport, develop all this stuff.

Marketing promotion.

I'm doing everything I can.

But if you could give me three pieces of coaching for the next two and a half years to try to accomplish the dream, in service of inspiring the world and giving myself the best chance possible, with all the training you have from four Olympics, teaching the best athletes in the world, knowing that this is not me being the freak athlete that I could be at 25, but the best that I can be at 45.

What three pieces of advice would you give me as a sports psychologist on my journey?

As you pass the ball back to me.

First, keep going.

Yeah.

You know, like...

You've got an idea.

You see a compelling future.

Check that box.

Awesome.

Like really see it now.

Really see what a compelling future could be.

Visualizing it.

Yeah.

But like, I think you've done that first bit.

I do it all the time.

Yeah.

And then underneath of it is where mental imagery would sit, but I'm not there yet.

I'm like, check the box.

You're organizing your life around it.

Yes.

Are you fundamentally organizing your life around it?

Oh yeah.

That's my wife.

Okay.

It's a fundamental commitment.

So I'm just checking the box and keep going.

And you have the right ecosystem, internal ecosystem, which is?

Look, I love trying to figure this thing out.

And it's hard.

And I'm up for it.

And the way you approach your life that way, you're already in the win category, if you will.

Now, if you get the outcome, it's like amazing.

Okay, like I want that for you.

But just keep going.

The second is, I'll ask you a question.

At the elite level of your sport?

What percentage of people when you're on the court?

What percentage of success is related to physical skills and mental skills?

Just oversimplify it really quickly.

There's physical, technical, and mental.

Let's do all three.

You can manage it.

What percentage of success is related to physical, technical, and mental?

I would say well, correct me if I'm saying it right, but 80.

Well, you need to have the physical capabilities, right?

So you need to be able to play the game.

You need to be able, to the right size, the right speed, the right athletic and technical skills to play the game.

So I would say that's, that's a lot of it.

It's probably like 60, 70%.

Like if you can't physically be there, you can't be on the court.

Okay.

So I don't know if that's 60 70 80, but then the emotional, how you respond, the mental, the leadership skills, that's at least 20 to 30.

Okay.

Let's go 70, 30.

We'll do like physical, physical and technical kind of in one bucket.

You can't run up and down the court.

You can't play.

Okay.

It's like you need to play. and then say 30 on the other side, on the mental side.

Okay, easy.

And we're starting to build your performance model.

As I'm just peppering and asking some questions, then I would say right, great.

Okay.

If we're to oversimplify, maybe we go 30 30, 30 just for a minute, which we're being pretty sloppy with it.

I'd want to scrub this with you.

But just on the lane that I sit in in high-performance psychology, if 30 of the successes is psychological, what percentage of your time will you invest in psychological skill building?

And if you've got an eight hour day, call it 10 hours for you.

I don't know, maybe you're at 12.

I don't know where you're at with your kind of full life efforts.

Most elite athletes don't move more than four hours a day at like- Can't.

No, that's like- You need recovery, you need down.

Yeah, so like that's the upper limit.

So call it two hours of physical training a day.

That would be a lot for you, actually a lot yeah, i would not.

And then i do recovery time, which i add into it, which would maybe be another hour.

So sauna, ice recovery, you know it's just time doing recovery stuff.

But i would fold in.

If your model is 70 30, i would say 30 of your time should be allocated to 30 of the success i would actually say that um, psychological skill building is an outsized leverage.

More time i should put into that yeah, yeah.

So what does that mean?

That means i can only do so much physical training right you're, you've got a limitation that we all do.

Yeah you've, you've got your unique and i've got my unique.

Um, so what would be the main psychological skills that i should invest the most time into?

Okay uh, there's no reason you should not be world leading, world class with the way you speak to yourself, your self-talk, Okay.

So know your epic thoughts, know exactly what those are and what gives you the right to say those kind of things to yourself.

Do that work.

Maybe you've already done it, I don't know.

I would have all three breathing training protocols to be kind of in my back pocket.

There's down regulation, breathing protocols, there's capacity building, training protocols and there is focus building.

So I do all three of those.

I would meditate every day, follow good science.

20 minutes a day would be kind of in the sweet spot.

Minimum threshold is between six and eight, but you're gonna get minimum results out of that.

Um, and I would use mental imagery as one of the greatest assets, which is playing the most beautiful movie you can imagine, with you performing towards your upper capabilities, both in compromise situations and in kind of full flow.

So I would play that movie in a disciplined way, from multiple angles, with all the senses I could, as if I was actually in it.

I put myself in flow state in my mind and I would also be in compromise situations where I'm trying to work out um, how to solve something that's hard in the mental imagery.

During my mental imagery, and so you know, i worked with felix baumgartner who jumped from 128 000 feet.

He was the first person ever to go to that high, to jump, to want to free fall and potentially break the speed.

Sound barrier, sound barrier yeah, thank you.

First person to ever break the sound barrier, And the brightest minds in aerospace were not sure what would happen when his body actually traveled Mach 1.

Would his body remain intact?

Would his arms and legs rip off?

And if he went into a flat spin prior to that, all the blood would rush to his head and his feet and he would land because of gravity, but land with a hemorrhage and serious consequences.

You only get one shot at that.

So Felix did that whole sequence thousands of times in his mind so that when the moment arised he was very familiar, he was very equipped, he worked things out.

So there'd be no reason.

And felix is a dear friend, we lost him recently and so i just want to honor his life and how much he taught me.

He went to the stratosphere but he brought so many with us, so many with him, so i would do mental imagery on a, on a, um everyday basis.

So fundamental commitment was the first thing.

Keep going is the first thing.

Take the next step every day.

Yeah, you got it.

Yeah.

Fundamental commitment.

World-class self-talk.

The psychological skills was the world-class self-talk breathing training meditation, 20 minutes, mental imagery over and over again yeah, and was there one other thing that's good?

And then uh, be world class at recovery recovery yeah, and so um, and then i would um, i think you already have this, but i would like secondarily support.

It is optimism, and so, like everything that comes in, like working to reinforce and build an optimistic framework, what happens when self-doubt comes in?

It's fine work yeah yeah, that's normal.

Yeah, You know, recognize it like oh, I see you.

Oh, cool.

You know what?

I want to examine that.

And we're going to do that right now.

Or I see you and be like, not now.

Right.

It's not like you need to replace that thought or be afraid of that thought.

Just like, oh, not now.

Come back to the task.

Yeah.

Just focus on the now.

Yeah.

Come back to the task.

Yeah.

You've got an amazing podcast called Finding Mastery, which I think is powerful for everyone to have a great morning routine.

And if they don't know how to structure their morning routine, you've got a morning mindset routine, which is a free PDF and audio file that people can get as well at findingmasterycom.

You've got a newsletter there.

You've got a lot of great resources and content that they can get.

So if you want psychological skills and tools, your site's got some of the best stuff that people can get.

Thanks, man.

You've got free content.

You've got other stuff as well.

You've got books.

You've got all these different things that people can get information from.

But from the podcast, for sure, Finding Mastery.

And on social media, Finding Mastery and Michael Gervais as well.

But where else can we send people to?

Is that the main places?

Listen.

I appreciate the conversation and the most meaningful like opportunity that I could try to capture from your community is like if you're a business leader and you want this for your organization or for your team.

We've got a know-how, we've got a way, and we would love to do that.

You guys coach executives and teams in setting these standards and processes for organizations.

Yeah, as large as Microsoft, Satya Nadella and his senior leadership team and all 220000 people.

And as small as hundreds of folks in the organization to run the same playbook that we run with world-class sport organizations.

Yeah, and you work with the Seahawks and other sports teams.

You've worked with many Olympic teams over the last four Olympics.

So world-class leaders, athletes, artists, you've trained them, you've worked with them, you've studied from them on how to apply this into everyday life for people.

So if people are looking to get in the top 16 of performers in life, or top 1, use these strategies and tools to support your daily process.

Thank you, Lewis.

Of course, man.

I've got two final questions.

This is called the three truths.

I don't remember what you shared last time, but I wonder if it's different this time.

Imagine you get to live your life for the rest of your life as long as you want to live, but eventually it's the last day.

And you get to accomplish an experienced life the way you want to.

Accomplish all your dreams.

But for whatever reason on the last day, you've got to take everything with you.

Your work, your content, your message, everything.

Your philosophies, your training, this conversation, it's all gone.

Podcast gone.

Hypothetical.

But in the last day you get to leave behind three truths from everything you've learned about life, or anything you want to share.

What would those three truths be for you?

Everything you need is already inside you.

I am so clear on that.

The second would be what you develop is what you can give.

And so invest in your inner life so that you can be great for others.

Love kind of runs the whole show.

And so that's my code for saying like, know how to love.

And then I think the third would be I'm imagining somebody opening a capsule, you know, and they're like these are the three truths that Mike wanted to leave behind.

The third would be you are capable of more than you can imagine right now.

Yeah yeah, that's cool.

Yeah, so i go.

Those are definitely not what i thought for the, you know, 10 years ago.

Those are what it is available to me right now.

Yeah, and what i'm working on like to be able to say maybe in the next 10 years with you is like i'm really working on being unbothered by all, by it all.

Yeah, anything it comes your way, or yeah, I know what is foundational to me.

I know what I'm working toward and just be unbothered.

I don't know how this thing works.

The Chinese farmer is an unbothered approach.

You're familiar with that Zen Cohen.

Unbothered.

I just really love that.

That's your next season.

Yeah.

And I'm really working on playing more.

I'm a really intense person.

Yeah.

And I love that.

It's good for me, but I get really intense quickly.

And so like.

You gotta have more fun in your life.

I do want to play more.

And so those are the, maybe next time it's like, be unbothered, play more, you know?

That's good.

Yeah.

There's a lot of science behind play and how it helps you get in flow more, right?

It's like being more instead of like so focused and intense all the time.

It's like being a little lighter, you know.

It's like having a little fun, like.

That's right.

Loosening up.

That's right.

Well, I want to acknowledge you, Mike, for the constant service you have to everyone.

Thank you.

You're constantly trying to help people be better through your skills, through your science, through your research.

And again, emotional regulation, I think, is the key to living a fulfilling life.

And you give people skills and tools on how to mentally and emotionally regulate which I think is the most powerful thing to love deeper, to live better and to be your best self.

So I want to acknowledge you for thank you constantly serving in the ways that you do.

Awesome.

Thank you.

And my final question, what's your definition of greatness?

Yeah, I don't remember what I said last time, but I think it is not externally measured.

I think greatness is exploring the edges of what you're capable of.

And I'm more about the process of the whole thing than the outcome of it.

So greatness is an honest commitment to who you're capable of being.

There you go.

And I put an asterisk, being and doing are two different things in my mind.

You know.

So, an honest commitment, a fundamental commitment to what you're capable, who you're capable of being.

Thanks, Mike.

Appreciate you.

I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness.

Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links.

And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel, exclusively on Apple Podcasts.

Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well.

Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review.

I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward.

And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter.

And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

[Mastering the Science of High Performance: Insights from Dr. Mike Gervais]-[You Might Also Like: The School of Greatness]

📋 Summary

Mastering the Science of High Performance: Insights from Dr. Mike Gervais

The Foundation of Awareness and Self-Discovery

The Danger Line: Where Growth Happens

Reframing the Survival Mechanism: Fight, Flight, Freeze, and Submit

Practical Tools for Peak Performance

Redefining Success and Identity

Parenting and the Future of Youth Sports

Conclusion: The Three Truths

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript

[Mastering the Science of High Performance: Insights from Dr. Mike Gervais]-[You Might Also Like: The School of Greatness]

📋 Summary

Mastering the Science of High Performance: Insights from Dr. Mike Gervais

The Foundation of Awareness and Self-Discovery

The Danger Line: Where Growth Happens

Reframing the Survival Mechanism: Fight, Flight, Freeze, and Submit

Practical Tools for Peak Performance

Redefining Success and Identity

Parenting and the Future of Youth Sports

Conclusion: The Three Truths

Deep Learning with ListenLeap

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript

ListenLeap Brings You Into Real Context Learning