Hello, listeners.
You're listening to the Fluent Mind ESL podcast.
I'm Sochal and I'm here with my co-host, Jack.
And today we're going to be doing a debate on whether Disney is good or bad.
I mean, that's a simplified version.
We'll get into it in a moment.
And we were thinking about doing these debate topics and we're interested to know what you guys think, because I know that a lot of you will have to do debates in your English classes.
And so we're interested about modeling that for you.
And plus, we're both two very opinionated people.
We will not be defending our true opinions in this series.
We will be choosing a side, flipping a coin to choose a side.
But this time, Jack assigned a side, sadly.
He is the dictator assigned his size and he assigned he is going to get to defend that Disney is bad.
And I have to defend that Disney is good.
And we might do a follow up on our true opinions if you guys are interested in that.
But I will let Jack kick us off on why he thinks Disney is bad.
Oh, OK.
So well actually, originally I was going to say Disney World is bad oh okay, the theme park yeah but um, like it's overrated.
Um, but i can, i could, i could uh, take the.
I could try to uh well, let's just do disney world.
That makes it simpler.
Okay okay, world is overrated.
Okay yeah, disney world is overrated because well okay um, this is actually my, my honest belief here.
Um, It is – I went to Disney World in 2014.
I took my daughter and I went with my family.
And that theme park is old.
It was built in like the 1960s or 70s or something.
And there's just enormous amount of people there.
And you wait in line for an hour and a half to go on the dumbest little merry-go-round ride and you're dying in the Florida heat because it's built in a swamp like a tropical subtropical climate.
You're waiting in line forever.
Everything's super expensive.
A bottle of water is $7 or something like that.
The rides are old.
It's just absolutely a nightmare scenario.
Now, the one maybe good point is that my daughter, you know, loved it.
You know, it's like it's magical for her.
But for me, as an adult going to Disney World I was, you know I would much rather, you know, find a coffee shop nearby and just sit there while they have fun going on rides and everything.
So it was it's not for me.
What about you?
What do you think about Disney World?
Well, I have to defend that Disney World is good.
I've never been to Disneyland or Disney World.
Oh, okay.
This episode makes no sense, but it's all right.
No, wait.
I can defend it.
I can defend it.
So you pointed out, and I was going to ask you this, you pointed out that your daughter loved it.
Yeah.
And Walt Disney has gone on record I mean before his death saying that he did not intend the parks to be for adult enjoyment.
Right.
You know, so these adults going that are not liking it or appreciate it's for your kids.
It's for your kids, ultimately.
And yeah, everything's expensive.
It's a theme park.
So of course, everything's going to be expensive.
But if your child enjoyed it, isn't that good enough?
Yeah.
And for our listeners out there, uh, social is really, really good at debating.
Like she, she never loses.
So, um, I mean, you've already got me capitulating on, on this point.
He's like, all right, I love dizzy world.
Yeah.
Um, no, no, no.
Um, yeah.
I mean, I think like, like, well, you know, I think it goes to, uh, that may be true.
Um, But I think that, like, you know, the majority of the people that were there were adults.
Like, it wasn't all kids.
You know what I mean?
Like, there were people that had come from – it was like a mecca, you know, for, like, adults.
Like, international people were coming there, waiting in line to go on three rides.
Because you can get a fast pass for, like, three rides.
If you get a ticket, you can jump in line three times.
And so –
Um, yeah.
So my brother and I went on one, uh, went on two roller coasters.
Um, but they were.
You know, it was nothing compared to like um, some of the the newer like um, like six flags or something like that.
You know, amusement parks um, even an amusement park in Korea where they have even better roller coasters than the ones at Disney world.
Like you, you think for the price.
You know, a ticket is like 120 or something like that for one person.
Um and, and I know there are like five parks and some of the parks have newer, newer stuff, but I'm just talking about the regular Disney world park, you know, the main park, which is the magic kingdom.
Cause there's the animal kingdom.
And then there's like, like there's a new star Wars park.
And so I can't really speak on behalf of those.
I probably, you know, would have a different opinion if I'd have if the avatar ride was up.
You know that the kind of 40, 40 or yeah, it's kind of like a, a fully immersive experience, experience where you're like flying on a dragon through the avatar world.
You know um, and so you know, just based on my experience, like the rides i went on to, it was like uh something mountain, i went on and and uh space mountain, i guess, was another one, and it was like i could see how people liked it in the 70s, but it just didn't have any impact to me in the 2000s, you know 2010s, i was just like oh, this is, This is lame.
I've been on way better roller coasters than this.
But to go back to your point, I mean, I think that, like you know, the movies and stuff are beloved by people of all ages.
You know, like I don't think Disney is just for kids.
I think I think adults enjoy Disney movies and shows just as much as kids do.
Right.
I'm going to interject here, though, and say, okay, they do.
Yeah.
And so can you say just because you didn't enjoy it that those other adults didn't?
No.
You know, I probably – I'm going to lose this debate.
I know it.
I've already lost.
But I'll keep trying.
Okay.
Are you thinking you picked the wrong side now?
And then also you're saying based on your personal experience on the rides, but then you go on to explain that there are rides that you didn't even try.
Yeah, that's true.
No, there's five parks to it.
So for me, the overrated is just the one park, the Magic Kingdom.
You know, the one with the Cinderella's Castle.
You're going to base your entire experience and the experience of other adults, saying that it's overrated, because you only tried one park and you didn't like it.
Yeah, no, I've got no ground to stand on here, but I've lost this debate already.
But yeah, I'm just I just for me, it's like.
Yeah, I mean, I guess the only way I can kind of argue is based on my own experience.
Like I, I can't really speak to other people.
Obviously I'm wrong, because they even they.
When they raise the prices, it's just like even more people come.
You know what I mean.
Like it's just.
It's just.
It's just like a, it's like a Mecca, you know, like it's just like a place that like people just flock to.
And it's it's so American, like it's just such a um.
But I just think like, if you want to really experience America, I just don't think Disney is is the place to.
It's the commercial version of America.
You know, it's like the uh, it's the, it's the, the advertisement, it's the uh.
That's the reason I call things Disney-fied when they're literally just like cleaned up.
Like, I don't know.
It's just like.
It's just like 1950s culture without the like Americana, without the racism and like all the cute little.
Like American stuff, I guess.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's all trinkets and souvenirs.
And and it's like you take a trip to America and you spend five days at Disney, the Disney Resort, and then go back to your home country and you say you've been to America, and it's like what.
That's not America.
That's like some kind of idealized version of what you think America is.
You know that you saw on TV in a movie or something.
So to me, I've never been a big fan of commercialism, you know.
I like authenticity.
I love going to – when I visit places, I love going to cities and I don't necessarily hit like all the hot spots you know.
I would rather just –
When I was young, in my 20s, if I visited a city or a country, I would just find a bar like a regular bar and just try to talk to people and just get a feel for what the culture and the city is like.
You know, I never had to see the thing.
Like if I didn't see the thing, it was like, Oh, to me, it wasn't like a waste of time.
It was like the a waste of time would be not talking to any natives.
You know people from that city or from that country and and and you know kind of interpersonally having an experience you know.
But yeah, that's just my personality.
Yeah.
I think I would, I would counter you on this debate, but I don't – I just – I'm more – I think I'm going to switch gears here and just talk.
I think since we already kind of did our debate thing.
I lost.
You won that debate.
Very clearly.
Very, very clearly you won.
I surrender.
Let us know who you think won the debate, students.
But I actually, Jack, I actually agree with you on so many aspects of this.
One.
I think I'm going to go all the way back, and then we'll get to the part where you talk about your travel style.
And I'm like, why don't we use that to make this like so much more immersive and awesome?
In Egypt or something you know or like in the Disney world, like you're in Disney, like you're in like Mickey Mouse.
Like when that becomes like you like, you like lock in and you're kind of like in the movie, like in a movie or in the world, like that could be like a ride.
They could have like so many different things.
I think they they overdo it with, like amusement park rides, because a lot of people go there because they are Disney adults.
And so what they really love is the culture. and the storylines and the characters.
And I feel like they can make it so much more immersive than it is.
I think maybe you know some of the newer parks are like that.
You know where, you put some kind of glasses on and you feel like you're in the Avatar movie.
And you're also on like kind of a machine that's moving.
So you feel like you're riding on the back of a dragon, you know, through the world.
Yeah, I think that's really cool.
And I think that's the future of amusement park rides.
It's going to be VR.
Like like kind of, you know, smells and the smoke coming up and you know what I mean?
Like the you're on some kind of robotic machine, but you feel like you're flying.
Like it just gives you that your gut kind of you know, your stomach kind of drops, you know, as the, as the dragon flies, flies down, you know.
So you know, having not done those rides, i probably have a totally different you know opinion if i'd gone on one of those rides.
You know, instead of the like dumbo uh merry-go-round, you know it's like here we go up and down, you slowly in a circle, you know, and the thing is, you're right, like my daughter loved it.
You know she was like 10 years old.
You know it was magical for her and so you know, on that way, in that respect, it was totally successful.
You know like, the experience, and Who cares if dads have?
Dads are not supposed to have fun on vacation when their kids are little.
Dad's supposed to be miserable.
Mom's stressed and kids are, you know, like hopped up on sugar and having a great time, you know?
So it was exactly the experience that I think Disney probably had intended.
But I'm just thinking like, like you said, with all the technology, technological advances, why can't we make it fun for everybody?
You know, I also think for the food, like, I agree with you.
Make it fun for everybody.
And I also think for the food, I think it could be so much better.
Oh, yeah.
If they just sold a carrot stick somewhere, I would have bought them.
Because at a certain point, the greasy – the sugar and the grease –
It's just like, I just wanted to bite into a head of lettuce.
You know what I mean?
Right.
I'll give you 20 bucks for that head of lettuce.
I would just eat some iceberg lettuce.
Just anything with like a nutrient in it or a mineral, you know?
And it's like super, it's like you said, it's hot.
It was probably an environmental disaster to create this in the Florida area.
Probably.
Yeah.
It's like a shame.
They just like wiped out like half of how many orange groves.
Yeah.
Oranges went up.
Yeah.
Because of the Disney.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah.
It must have been horrible.
And then, you know, running back to the end of things, your travel style, Jack, I think this is something that we really appreciate. agree on like our travel styles and that because I feel like I know this is a little more controversial but we're both air signs like Jack is um a Aquarius and I'm a and so I feel like we relate so much on our travel styles because of that and uh air signs are characterized for their curiosity and so i feel like our travel is curiosity driven we like to get deep into the authentic nature of things i've i've been like i've been all over korea and spent the least amount of time in seoul um but fine and uh i've been everywhere you know i've been to tongyeong ulsan mokpo uh jeju um gwangju gyeongju like i mean i've been to so many cities in korea um and i think that is something that i prefer more than being in seoul which is just like the giant you know mecca of korea with like over 10 million people population and just yeah it's cool it's just urban sprawl you know i mean it's cool but you know you The authentic experience outside of Seoul, you're going to understand Korea much better if you don't go to Seoul.
Because Seoul, I think the big urban centers diminish culture in some ways, you know?
They do.
Yeah.
They do.
When you go, like outside of Seoul and go to other areas in Korea, or if you go outside of the big cities in Japan as well, or even like the surrounding areas to a city, you just get so much more authentic experience.
You can stop at like these little eateries or shops and everything is super cheap.
And you're going to get like the best soup that you've ever had in your life.
And like a bunch of side dishes, you know, things that Koreans really eat.
Or you know, if you go to Japan, things that Japanese people really, or if you go to Mexico, things that Mexican people really eat, like if you go outside of the major cities and actually try things.
And it just has become so.
Travel has become so cookie cutter in the in the Instagram and TikTok age, like whatever happened to just going someplace and eating somewhere and getting lost.
And maybe you had a bad experience.
Maybe you had a good experience, but it was your real raw experience.
You didn't go to the top 10 best places on TikTok. and have the experience that everybody else had.
Yeah.
If I go to, if I ever go to Mexico I'm I'm, I'm going to talk to you first, and then I'm going to Oaxaca, because because I know you would just tell me like you got, check this out, check this out, check this out.
You know, like I'm not going to go to Mexico city, you know, or Tijuana or anything like that.
It's just not.
You can actually go to Mexico City and have a super authentic experience, but don't go like Roma and Condesa and these places that are just like super gentrified, very expensive.
And they sell a bunch of stuff like Italian food.
Like, why would you go to Mexico City and eat Italian food?
Yes, we have some food in the world.
Like, and so obviously, since we have some great chefs, maybe they'll make amazing Italian food.
But why would you eat like in a place that's renowned for its culinary?
Why would you eat Italian food?
It's insanity.
It's insanity.
You know like I went to Paris.
We ate bread.
You know we drank wine.
We went to eat bread and cheese.
You know like that was insane.
We did it the right way.
I'm not going to go to McDonald's in Paris.
It's insanity.
Right.
Why would you go to Mexico City and have McDonald's or gelato or Italian food in the Condesa Roma?
Just go to some little.
Some of the best food I've ever had in Mexico City is in my mom's neighborhood, which is very dangerous inner city Mexico.
I wouldn't recommend travelers go there just because of the level of danger that it is.
But it's amazing.
Like the food is the food culture there is like next level.
Like I would eat there.
If I could pick a place to eat every day of the week, it would be there in Santa Maria.
Like it's just so I feel like.
I totally agree with you.
Of course, we've we've as usual, we've we've gone far from our original.
Well, I've got one I got one test question for you.
In what city was the Caesar salad invented?
Oh, in Tijuana, Mexico.
Yes.
Interesting.
Yes.
I just learned that this week.
Yes, it was invented by a Mexican.
You really just learned that this week.
I just discovered it this week.
I never heard that before.
Yeah.
Honestly, I would go and eat Caesar salad in Tijuana.
Why not?
It was invented there.
But I wouldn't go to all the basic places and have like like I wouldn't go to Roma or Condesa and have like gentrified, polished off, like Italian food.
Like I just why, when I can eat Mexican food, that's why you go to Mexico, exactly.
No, if you're not, i want uh uh, what am i trying to say?
Beans and rice.
You know like i want to eat.
Yeah, like you know, i mean, i don't mean this in a pejorative way, but like the peasant food, you know what i mean.
Like bibimbap like um, like that's, like that's the best stuff.
Yeah yeah exactly yeah, yeah.
No well Jack, anytime you come to Mexico, you know that you're more than welcome in my family's home.
Your family is more than welcome in my family's home.
And Oaxaca is super safe for travelers, including female travelers.
For our listeners out there as well who are curious, I would say Oaxaca is super safe.
I see solo female travelers all the time.
I used to work at an art gallery in Oaxaca.
We'd get solo female travelers from China, from Korea, from Japan, from like everywhere in the world.
It was, it was, it sounds like such a amazing place.
Like I, you know, I mean I you mentioned before like the day of the dead is a very wholesome family.
Uh, tradition like a holiday.
And so I, I just would love to uh experience, in a way, that was, that I wasn't intruding.
You know like I would do it respectfully.
I would love to be there at that time.
I just, it seems like such a magical time.
So, Yeah.
If that's ever on your bucket list, you can always come and we'll celebrate it.
Like you can see how my family celebrates it.
That wouldn't be intruding.
We'd love to have you guys.
And we can even do a vlog about it.
I feel like that would be so cool.
Our listeners would be like all in.
That would be fun.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Making plans.
I love it.
All right.
So, yeah.
Do you want to take us out, or do you want me to?
Oh, no, go ahead.
We're still working on the – Yeah, we're still working on this.
Jack and I still haven't perfected.
I have not perfected the intro, and he has not perfected that.
Your intro is way better than my outro, though.
All right.
Well, listeners out there.
Jack, just for the record socials one Jack, zero when it comes to debates.
But I knew she's a formidable opponent in the debate realm, so I don't feel too bad about it.
Um, you guys, uh, can, uh, catch us on the major platforms, Apple podcasts, Spotify, et cetera.
Um, you can send us an email if you want to rub in my loss.
Uh, you can send me an email, Jack, uh, sorry, uh, a to Z English podcast at gmail.com.
And uh yeah we'll uh we'll, we'll see if Jack can, uh can, come back and redeem himself.
Uh, next week with another debate.
So, yeah.
We'll keep it more on topic this time.
But definitely, we might actually just split this into two episodes.
We'll see.
I'll talk to Jack post-production.
But let us know your opinions in the comments.
We would love to hear your opinions on everything.
What do you think about Disney World?
What do you think about glorified tourism?
What's your opinion?
We always love to hear from you guys, so please let us know.
And we'll see you guys next time.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Thank you.
