Oh, great and powerful AI, what does my future hold?
Ah, here we go.
You will never know if the laundry is done until you fold it from within.
Well, that makes no sense.
Try again, please.
Okay, let's see what it wrote.
The grass is always greener than the buttons on the porch.
What?
Joy, what are you doing?
Oh, hey, Harlem.
You're just in time.
I'm trying out my new TFCW.
It uses AI.
TFCW?
What's that?
My AI typewriter fortune cookie writer.
But I think it's broken.
Listen to this.
It wrote, chasing the cat will never end in popcorn.
What does that mean?
I have no idea.
See, it's busted.
Hold on, Joy.
There's gotta be a way to fix it.
Aha.
Here's your problem.
Oh, my slinky.
I've been looking all over for that.
It should work now.
Give it a try.
Okay.
TFCW, will I host a podcast today?
It says you've been hosting all along.
It's magic!
Welcome to Forever Ago from APM Studios.
I'm Joy Dolo, and I'm here with Harlem from Charlottesville, Virginia.
Hi, Joy.
Hi, hi.
Can you believe the new season of Forever Ago is finally here?
Right?
You know what they say.
Season five are all the wiser.
At least that's what this fortune cookie says.
Oh, yeah, that's a classic.
It's like time flies when you're having fun or spill the mayo.
Isn't it don't spill the beans?
Who would want to spill beans?
Legumes give you life.
Mayo, on the other hand, should be spilled in the garbage where it belongs.
Oh, that's right.
I forgot.
Mayo is your mortal enemy.
Along with Sporks, Mismatched Socks, and Angry Goldfish.
What are they so angry about?
No mayo, Sporks, or Angry Goldfish.
Got it.
But back to Forge and Cookies.
Our studio is covered in them.
Yeah.
Where'd you get all these cookies in the first place?
Uh, Harlem, that is a great question.
Uh, where I get all of my accidental impulse purchases?
The internet.
I was actually trying to order a hundred boxes of Girl Scout cookies, but I clearly misordered.
Well, cookie mistakes are my favorite kind of mistakes.
Oh, mine too.
It's just like Sheryl Crow says, they're my favorite mistake-a-cake.
I think she was trying to say cake, but she said mistake.
She made a mistake.
And actually, it's perfect timing because today we're talking all about fortune cookies.
Fortune cookies are those little folded cookies with a piece of paper inside.
You usually get them at the end of a meal at a Chinese restaurant.
Or when you get takeout.
Right.
Sometimes they even serve them at other Asian restaurants.
Harlem, have you ever had a fortune cookie before?
Yeah.
How would you describe it to somebody who's never seen one?
It's like a folded cookie with paper inside.
It's like beige with like tiny, like air pocket specks in it and like it looks crunchy and it's like a little bit smaller than your fist.
What do you think they taste like?
Like crunchy, like kind of like an egg roll, not too sweet, not too like savory.
Have you ever had a fortune in one that you remember?
Um, i think there's one that is like don't think too deep about a simple problem.
Oh, that's a good one.
Okay, I'm going to ask you about your process, your process of fortune cookies.
Do you read the fortune first, then eat the cookie, or do you save the fortune until after you've eaten the cookie?
I say you, like, crack it in half, you take the fortune out, you eat the cookie, then you read it.
Oh, eat the cookie and then read it and then your dreams come true.
That's a good process.
Well, the fortune cookie is so much more than a fun dessert.
It's a tale of immigration, innovation and cultures melding over decades.
For most of us, when we think of fortune cookies, we think of Chinese food.
But it turns out if you went to China, it'd be a lot harder to find fortune cookies than you think.
That's because fortune cookies aren't from China.
So you might be wondering, if the fortune cookie isn't from China, where did it come from?
Well, the origin of the fortune cookie can actually be traced back to Japan.
It all started in the late 1800s, over 120 years ago.
The light bulb had only just been invented, and electricity was hardly in any homes yet.
Bicycles were really taken off and a snazzy new attraction called the Statue of Liberty had just been built in New York City.
And in Kyoto, Japan, people were selling a special kind of cookie in bakeries.
These cookies were made almost like a pancake.
Someone would pour batter onto a hot griddle and then fold the warm cookies by hand.
First, they'd fold the circle in half into a semicircle, then pinch it in the middle.
It's the same shape as we know fortune cookies today, but the original Japanese cookies were a little different.
Yeah, they were a bit darker in color, similar to toffee or peanut butter, and a little bigger.
When they were folded up, they were about the size of the top of a soda can.
And instead of having the paper fortunes inside the cookie, they were on the outside, pinched in the fold.
The fortune stuck out where the two corners met.
It was like the cookie was a clothespin for the fortune.
Exactly.
And instead of being sweet like today's fortune cookies, they were more savory, flavored with miso paste or sesame.
So these cookies got their start in Japan.
And they were brought to America thanks to immigrants.
Immigrants are people who move to live in a new country.
My parents are actually immigrants and they immigrated to the US from Liberia and West Africa in the early 1980s.
Harlem, do you know anyone in your family who immigrated?
My mom immigrated to the U.S. as a teen.
She was 16.
She immigrated there from China.
Oh, wow.
Did your mom bring parts of her Chinese culture with her when she immigrated?
I mean, we used to make dumplings once every year, but we kind of stopped doing that recently, so...
Do you still remember how to make them?
Well, I just remember like the little cut out circles, and then you just put the stuff and like the filling in, and then you put water on the rimmed edges and then you just like pinch it together and then they stick.
Was there a certain thing that you would put in the middle?
Mostly like assortments of vegetables and like sometimes chicken.
Oh, that sounds so good.
That's actually making me really hungry.
Okay, so when people immigrate to a new place, they bring their culture with them, like different foods traditions music, you name it.
In the late 1800s there were a lot of immigrants coming to the United States, including lots of Japanese people.
Many of these Japanese immigrants came to California, and some of them likely brought the fortune cookie recipe with them.
So that's how the fortune cookie got to America.
Yeah, we don't know all of the details, though.
Lots of different people claim to have invented the American version of the fortune cookie we know today.
But one popular theory says it started with a man named Makoto Hagiwara.
Hagiwara, immigrated from Japan to San Francisco in the late 1800s and managed the Japanese tea garden.
I've heard of that place.
It's a huge park with lots of gardens and a special house for drinking tea.
Right.
As the story goes, it was Hagiwara's idea to serve fortune cookies to customers at the tea house.
Back then, they were called tea cakes.
I have an excellent idea.
What now, Hagiwara?
What if we put the fortunes inside the tea cakes and serve them to customers?
It'll be like a little surprise inside the treat.
Paper inside?
That'll never fly.
But it did fly.
Workers at the tea garden started making the cookies by hand, just like they were made in Japan.
And they were totally a hit.
They were so popular that Hagiwara's staff couldn't keep up, so he had to hire a bakery to start making the cookies.
Okay, so now we know how fortune cookies got from Japan to America.
It was likely thanks to Japanese immigrants like Hagiwara.
Right.
And over time, the fortune cookie changed.
Customers in the U.S. were used to sweet, buttery cookies.
So the people making the fortune cookies tweaked the recipe.
They made the cookies smaller and sweeter and flavored them with vanilla and butter instead of sesame or miso.
They figured these new fortune cookies would appeal more to American eaters.
Wow, these fortune cookies are scrumptious.
Mmm, butter vanilla?
What's not to love?
Why, it's almost as American as... An eagle wearing a cowboy hat eating a cheeseburger!
It made sense.
Butter and sugar were more common dessert ingredients here in the U.S.
All this fortune cookie talk has really got me craving... a fortune cookie.
Lucky for us, we're literally surrounded by them.
Let's have some.
Okay, mine says, happy news is on its way.
Ooh, I can't wait to hear what it is.
What about you, Harlem?
Mine says, there might be a game in your future?
That cookie is right, because it's time for...
It's the game where we try to guess the order things came in history.
Today, we're testing our luck with these three cookies.
Thin Mints, the popular mint and chocolate.
Girl Scout cookie Shortbread, which are those super buttery cookies.
And Snickerdoodles, the soft cinnamon-y cookies that are both fun to say and fun to eat.
Okay Harlem, which do you think came first, which came second and which came most recently in history?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I think it would be like a little more rudimentary and like there's like no toppings.
It's just like butter cookie.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's that's a great guess.
That's what I think, too.
It's kind of like a cracker, like a cracker or biscuit.
Yeah, I think the snickerdoodle would have came next because well cinnamon, they probably didn't have that much cinnamon like in cookies.
It probably didn't get that popular.
So like I think they were just like trying something new to see if it hit.
Yeah, yeah.
So we have shortbread first and then snickerdoodle.
And then you think Thin Mints would be last, hey?
Yeah, because if you really think about it, it would be pretty hard to make a mint flavor that would actually taste like more like mint as we know it today than, like you know, like the mint plant, like actual, like leaves.
Yeah, yeah.
It'd have to be like really, what's the word I'm thinking of?
Like not processed, but...
Artificial?
Yeah, yeah.
Maybe more of an artificial mint, because it is kind of light tasting.
So you have to make a whole bunch of it.
Yeah.
And I bet it was like pretty interesting to be like.
Hmm, I wonder if mint and chocolate would be good together.
Yeah.
So, out of all three of these shortbread, snickerdoodle and thin mints which of these is your favorite?
Thin mints.
It has to be thin mints.
That was so quick.
Especially the Girl Scout ones.
Yeah, those are really good.
I have to say, I really like all things plain.
Like I like vanilla and I really love like shortbread.
I really like vanilla too.
It's like one of my top on there.
How do you feel about mayonnaise?
Don't like it.
I don't really like sauce in general.
Harlem, I just knew we were going to get along great.
Anyway, so, okay, back to the game.
So you said shortbread, snickerdoodle, and Thin Mints.
And we'll hear the answers after the credits, so stick around.
Listeners, we're so happy to be back, and we want to hear from you.
What topic would you like to explore on Forever Ago?
What history would you like to learn more about?
Maybe there's a certain invention, person, or time period you're curious about?
Harlem, what's something you want to learn the history of?
Bowls, because it's like they hold so many different types of well, not different types, just variety of foods like rice curry dumplings soup, cereal.
That's a great idea.
Listeners, send us your episode ideas at foreverago.org contact.
While you're there, send us a picture of your fan art, like a portrait of me and Gumpy doing the splits.
Can't wait to see what you come up with.
Brains on Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults.
And since you're a fan of Forever Ago, we know you'll love the other shows in our universe.
Come on, let's explore.
Entering Brains On Universe.
So many podcasts.
Brains On.
Smash Boom Best.
Forever Ago.
Picking up signal.
Smash Boom Best.
A debate show.
What are they arguing about this time?
Tomatoes versus potatoes.
I was just remembering, in 1949 the Mr Potato Head went into production, a pivotal toy in a lot of people's childhood.
And I was Googling right now, Mr. Tomato Head.
And the first thing that comes up is, did you mean Mr. Potato Head?
Oh.
Hilarious.
Zorp.
Signal down.
Need smash boom vest?
No.
No.
Search for Smash Boom Best wherever you get your podcasts.
You're listening to Forever Ago.
I'm Joy.
I'm Harlem.
Today we're talking about fortune cookies.
Even though you're probably used to seeing fortune cookies in Chinese restaurants here in the US, they're not from China.
They're actually from Japan, and they've been here for more than around 100 years.
They were introduced to America by Japanese immigrants like Makoto Hagiwara in San Francisco.
The cookie changed a lot since coming to America.
In Japan, they were flavored with miso paste or sesame.
And the fortunes were on the outside, tucked in a fold of the cookie.
But when the cookie came to America, bakers made them smaller and sweeter, and the fortunes went inside the cookie.
So far, we know how the fortune cookie traveled from Japan to America.
But you might be wondering, if the fortune cookie is from Japan, why do we think of it as Chinese?
And why does it come with Chinese food in the U.S.?
To learn more, we talked to Jennifer Aitley.
She's a journalist, filmmaker, and author.
She also wrote an entire book about the history of fortune cookies.
Jennifer says, one reason we might think of fortune cookies as Chinese is because back in the day a lot of Japanese immigrants owned restaurants that served Chinese food, not Japanese food.
So what's really interesting is that Fortune Feast probably jumped originally to Chinese restaurants, because many Chinese restaurants once upon a time were operated also by Japanese people.
Because you couldn't open a Japanese restaurant in the 1920s in America because they were not interested in sushi or raw fish.
So, in order to survive, you'll find that a lot of restaurants were Chinese in name, but Japanese in ownership.
Lots of Japanese immigrants were running Chinese restaurants to make a living.
And that's one reason why we might think of fortune cookies as Chinese instead of Japanese.
But there's more to the story.
Fast forward a few decades to the 1940s.
The whole world was wrapped up in World War II, including the United States and Japan.
Except these two countries were on opposite sides of the war.
In 1941, the Japanese military attacked a U.S.
Navy base in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii.
After the attack, there were rumors that Japanese Americans were spies.
But these rumors were based on racist lies.
There's no evidence to support that Japanese Americans were spying for Japan.
But even though the rumors weren't true, the U.S. government decided to take action anyway.
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt ordered over 120000 Japanese Americans to leave their homes and live in camps.
That way, the government could monitor them.
We now call them internment camps, but they were basically prisons.
People weren't allowed to leave, and many couldn't contact their families to tell them where they were.
Many of these people were American citizens, but they were forced to leave everything their jobs, homes and belongings.
That meant these Japanese immigrants who had open businesses like restaurants or bakeries had to leave them behind too.
Internment uprooted thousands of people and changed their lives forever.
As World War II came to a close, the U.S. government started releasing Japanese Americans.
The last camp closed in 1946.
Many of these Japanese Americans never got to reopen their businesses, including some of the bakeries that made fortune cookies.
While Japanese Americans were held in camps, Chinese Americans were still running restaurants, and some started making fortune cookies too.
Over the next couple of decades, many of these Chinese American restaurant owners helped make fortune cookies more popular than ever.
And it's Chinese Americans who helped fortune cookies become popular.
That's partly because they invented machines that could fold the cookies and put paper fortunes inside.
These machines meant people could make cookies much faster.
And as Chinese food grew in popularity, so did fortune cookies.
Jennifer A Lee, the journalist who wrote a book about fortune cookies, says the sweet treat is a product of so many different cultures.
Yeah, I'd like to say that fortune cookies were invented by the Japanese, popularized by the Chinese but ultimately consumed by Americans.
It's kind of funny that we think of fortune cookies as being a treat from far away.
Really, the cookies, at least how we know them today, evolved right here in America.
And this happens all the time with foods, especially foods introduced by immigrants.
They change and adapt to become something new, like how immigrants have to adapt to a new culture.
It's true, like having to learn a new language and new customs.
Or having access to different ingredients, or getting used to a completely different climate.
Just like people change, their foods change too.
And Jennifer says there are lots of other examples of these kinds of dishes.
General Salad's chicken is actually popularized here.
Beef with broccoli is a very American dish because Americans love broccoli.
American broccoli actually came to America through Italy.
It became popular in like the 1920s.
And there are even more examples of this, like spaghetti and meatballs.
Which is from New York, not Italy.
Popularized by Italian Americans.
America really is a melting pot, isn't it?
Yeah, which makes for lots of awesome foods.
Agreed.
Like the fortune cookies.
What does your fortune say?
It's time to take creative risks.
Ooh, I love creative risks.
Like using jazz hands in Shakespeare.
Or only speaking with an upward inflection.
Or making impulsive purchases on the internet.
Joy, not again.
But the cookie said so.
To the computer.
This episode was written by Ruby Guthrie.
It was produced by Nico Gonzalez-Whistler.
Our editors are Shayla Farzan and Sandin Totten.
Fact-checking by Katie Ruther.
Engineering help from Louis Reining and Derek Ramirez with sound design by Rachel Brees.
Original theme music by Mark Sanchez.
We had additional production help from the rest of the Brains on Universe team.
Beth Perlman is our executive producer, and the executives in charge of APM Studios are Chandra Kavadi and Joanne Griffith.
Special thanks to Carmen Stanford and Minwoo Kim.
And if you want access to ad-free episodes and special bonus content, subscribe to our Smarty Pass.
Okay, Harlem, the time is here.
Are you ready to hear the answers for First Things First?
Yes, definitely.
Are you excited?
Uh-huh.
Me too.
Okay, so as a reminder, we're putting these three cookies in order of when they were invented.
And your order was shortbread, snickerdoodle, and Thin Mints.
Okay.
Let's see what the answer is.
Oh, no.
What?
Oh, no, Harlem.
You got them all right.
Let's go.
Let's go.
You did it!
That's amazing.
Okay, so shortbread was first.
It's the oldest in history.
It's from the 12th or 13th century.
And though it's surely not the only place shortbread-like cookies were being made throughout history, many people credit the Scottish for creating the shortbread we know and love today a crisp, crumbly cookie made from butter, flour and sugar.
Originally, Scottish shortbread was made from leftover bread dough that was baked twice, so the result was harder and less sweet than what we know today.
That is incredible.
I love shortbread cookies, and my husband is 50% Scottish, so I feel like it was just meant to be.
Eh, you did a good job is what I mean.
Next up was snickerdoodles.
The first recorded recipe was in the late 1800s.
The exact history of snickerdoodles isn't known, but many believe a version of the cookie was brought to America by Dutch-German immigrants.
There are many theories about where the name snickerdoodle comes from.
Some think it's from a German treat called Schneckennoodle, which translates to snail noodle.
It's a type of cinnamon bun wrapped up like a snail.
Okay.
Last, certainly not least, is Thin Mints, like you guessed.
And that was invented in 1939.
And Thin Mints were originally called Cookie Mints and went through many different versions of the name, like Chocolate Mint and Thin Mint, with no S, mind you.
Yeah.
All Thin Mints are made by just two licensed commercial bakers that produce all of the Girl Scout cookies in the United States.
They do have a tall order, probably.
There's a lot of Girl Scouts.
A lot of Girl Scouts and a lot of people that want their Thin Mints.
Thin Mints were some of the first Girl Scout cookies to be commercially made, and now they're the number one selling Girl Scout cookie.
Well, that's probably rightfully bestowed on them.
They are very good.
They are really good, yeah.
That's awesome.
So you got them right.
Do you feel good about yourself?
Yes.
Yes, I do.
Did you find any of this information, like, surprising?
Kind of, but also kind of not.
Yeah, how so?
Because, like, I got surprised because, like, the noodle snail thing.
And, yeah, and, like, also the shortbreads.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But the Thin Mints, I kind of wasn't surprised about that.
Yeah.
I mean, if you think Girl Scouts, they've been around probably most recently.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
I think it's interesting that the shortbread was like made in the 12th or 13th century.
Like that's so long ago.
Like they were making these delicious cookies.
Well, you did a great job.
First things first.
First things first champion.
And join us next week for a new episode all about guide dogs.
Thanks for listening.
