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Let's be serious. And I'll just share a quote that someone said to me when I was in the thick of it, which was, grief is just love with no place to go.
Have you ever wished you had a wise meditation teacher on speed dial?
someone you can call after a long day, someone you could lean on for their advice, someone to listen and help you to see things differently.
Welcome to Dear Headspace.
Hello everyone. I have to say I am so excited to be here for another episode of Dear Headspace and that's a podcast where I sit down with a Headspace meditation teacher and we answer your questions.
I am Robyn Hopkins and I am lucky enough to be sitting alongside Eve.
Hi, Eve. Hi, Robin.
It's so nice to be back.
I know. Well, I wanted to start before we got into our questions and I wanted to talk about the question, like, how are you?
Because it's like, like really answering it.
I've started answering it really honestly to people.
And I think I'm throwing a lot of people because I I'm saying things like, I don't know, I mean, good.
And everyone just looks at me like really weird. so I wanted to hear, like, how are you really?
And then your thoughts on the question.
That question made me think of an amazing therapist, and she says, how are you really, really, really?
And then you're like, oh, OK.
By the third really, you're like, I guess I have to actually answer.
Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest. Things have been really difficult actually.
I have had a really bumpy start to the year and some days have been easier than others.
My mom's going through cancer treatment, so that has been really tough to navigate and being far away just comes with a whole host of other challenges as well.
It's just hard seeing someone you love so much suffer and there's just so many unknowns.
And then to throw in on top of that, I also had a breast cancer scare recently.
so that was pretty scary.
But all was okay? It was.
Yeah. It was a long wait after biopsies and things.
And so I just want to take this opportunity, you know, I recognize that I am in a position where I can use my voice that could potentially impact others.
And so for me to everyone out there, please, please check your breasts on a regular basis.
Yes. I was completely blindsided, I'll be honest, I hadn't really been keeping on top of that.
Well, I think a lot of things went by the wayside with COVID.
Like those appointments, those regular appointments, just kind of were like, you know what, I don't want to put myself in that situation, I'm going to, it can wait, I'm young.
But with breast cancer, age is often not a factor.
Yeah, exactly. I mean, one of my closest friends had breast cancer at 32.
Probably folks in the UK may know one of the Peloton instructors, Leanne Hainsby has just announced that she's dealing with breast cancer.
I did. She's one of my favorites.
Yeah. And, you know, I really am denied about sharing my experience.
But if that means that one or two people will go and get themselves checked, then that means it's worth sharing.
And I really wouldn't want anyone to go through what I went through recently.
So, please check. I think you're all in this health space and you're coaches and you're out there and you're rallying for people with your voices and what you do when you run a meditation or when you run a course, but you have a life that's happening behind the microphone.
I think it's easy to forget sometimes.
Absolutely. From an outside perspective, easy to perhaps assume that because of the work that I do, or the people in the space do, that we are maybe somehow immune to challenges and difficulties.
Well, she's a mindful teacher.
She should never get mad or upset or anxious.
Yeah, no, no. Just not true.
Well, and I especially love that you're sharing this because it's the start of Women's History Month right now.
So, I just I think that's a wonderful timing.
I wouldn't say that Women's History is some big month that I'm like, woo, let's get the popcorn out, it's Women's History Month.
But I feel like because I don't really often know what to do with Women's History Month.
I'm like, am I celebrating Marie, you know, Marie Curie?
Or I don't know what I'm doing with it, you know?
But it's like, I recognize there's still a need for it because women still make, you know, significantly less on the dollar than men.
So it's like, I get that there's still a point to it, but I feel like this is a nice way to acknowledge it and is to say, take care of yourselves, you know, those of you who this affects.
I mean, yes. And you know, I think, I think the fact that there is a need, or the fact that simply that there is Women's History Month or that there is Black History Month means there's still so much more work that needs to be done.
Well, I'm gonna say brighter days are ahead.
And I am also I'm not changing the subject, but I am going to say in honor of Women's History Month, all the questions today are from amazing ladies.
And I do want to say, Eve, I hope you don't mind at some point during this episode, there's a very good chance I may start singing sisters are doing it for themselves.
I just might I'm going to try not to for the sake of everyone.
Well, today we are going to be answering questions about how to talk to a parent who doesn't want to let go, how to deal with grief with a loved one who is experiencing the same loss as you, and getting over the fear of leaving a job.
So we're going to get this party started and we are going to get right to our first question.
This is Gabriella. Hi, Headspace.
My name's Gabby. I'm 19.
I'm from Pflugerville, Texas, which is 30 minutes away from Austin, Texas, and recently I've been stressing out about moving out of my parents' house.
My grandma offered me to stay with her while I go to school, because she's ten minutes away from my campus, opposed to where I'm 30 minutes away.
My dilemma is my dad.
Whenever he found out about this, he got really upset and hurt.
He took the anger out of my grandma when he shouldn't have, she was just offering, you know, just trying to be helpful.
He told me that I wasn't ready, that I'm just jumping into this, and I think that this is a great thing.
I want to move over there because it's closer to my school, to better jobs.
I just don't know how to talk to him without coming off as ungrateful or rude.
I just don't want to argue.
I want to be able to talk to him calmly so I can make this a smooth transition.
He's just not ready to let go is what I can see.
But yeah, I hope, this will really help.
Thank you. Aw, Gabby.
That's a lot for you with your 19 year old self.
Yeah, and just listening to your question Gabbie, you are so thoughtful and considered about the dilemma You don't want to hurt your dad but you also want to stand up for yourself, which takes courage and You're just so aware of everybody else's feelings And and she's listening to her instincts to Eve like she's not just being like I don't want to do it She's just like how can I do this in the best possible way?
That's what a wonderful place to be starting the question with JG.
Absolutely. And just hold on to those values.
They will really, really be helpful to you as you navigate college and jobs and going out into the world, like listening to your intuition, but also coming from a place of compassion and kindness and wanting to be considerate to others without being walked over, you know, and congratulations for going to college.
You know it's funny because it's like it feels like there's multiple parts to this question.
So like let's start with the how.
I mean the first thing that comes to my mind is you could write a letter.
That's something I've actually done when I've been in a situation where there's been some conflict, I've actually taken pen to paper.
Yeah. and I already would have assumed that Gabby's tone would be one of kindness and being considerate.
And so I think just really explaining from the heart, from your perspective, and what it is that you feel you need from your dad to help make this process smoother on you as well, because at the crux of all of this is change.
Underlying everything is that things are about to change for you in a big way, and things are also about to change for him.
And you said yourself, Gabby, that he's struggling to let go.
Which makes sense. Absolutely.
And even though, of course, we're not privy to the conversations you've had, it does sound like some of them have been quite difficult, But possibly that finding it hard to let go is because he loves you very, very much. Of course, again, we're not privies of the conversations.
We're just going to make that assumption because it's nice.
And, you know, when we resist change, which we actually probably do more than we realize as individuals, it just creates so much tension, anguish, discomfort in the mind and body and actually makes you feel worse.
Yeah, I mean and part of the growing up process is understanding when you have to say no to someone and say yes to yourself.
Absolutely and look, ultimately you won't be living at home forever, Gabi.
And so I think this is actually a really great opportunity for your dad to start to learn how to let go.
Yeah. And so actually start to watch you thrive and build your own life.
And that doesn't mean that he can't be a part of it, I think it's just us talking through and discussing where he can still show up in your life, but also that he gives you some room to breathe.
And a couple of other things that sprung to mind whilst listening to the question, Gabi, was there is a really great mindful listening exercise that you could try.
I know it sounds like you've had some conversations, but they maybe sound like they were quite one -sided from your dad, making some assumptions there.
But reading between the lines of your, your comments and question.
So this exercise is called five, three, two, and what it involves is, you each sit down and it does, you don't have to do five minutes, but this was how it was taught to me.
And so Gabby, you could start and you have five minutes of which to share uninterrupted, your dad is not allowed to talk at all.
His role is to sit and listen openly and to listen without judgment and really hearing from your perspective.
And look, you could start with a topic that you both agree on just to get you warmed up, maybe not going straight into to this one, which does have some difficulty attached because it's it does feel a little uncomfortable when you are given complete space to talk.
Yeah, and no one's interrupting you, you're like, wow, I actually have a voice and no one's jumping in and another thing.
Yeah, and then your dad has three minutes to repeat back to you what he heard, not his view on the situation, not his judgements, not his opinions, simply.
So for example, it might be, what I heard you say, Gabby, is that you love when we go on hikes together because you feel really connected to us and it's a chance for you to share a passion that you both have which is hiking and I'm just making that up but you get my gist and then you have then two minutes to make any corrections if he maybe misheard something you say actually no that's not quite what I said this is what I said.
So it's a little bit involved and it does take a little bit of practice and patience.
And then you then get a chance to hear his perspective.
And then you listen openly, without judgment.
And then you repeat back what you had.
This just really helps you both to see each other's perspective, without casting your own judgments and opinions.
That's amazing. That's such a great format.
And it's so simple, and it's are so, you know, it's so concise.
You know, you're young and you should be out there and exploring and making friends and living your life and do not feel guilty about that.
Absolutely. Yeah. And I, and this is one of those questions where I really mean it, Gabby, I hope that you have this conversation.
It goes really well.
And I hope you, like, I don't, send us a picture of you in your new digs, you know, like at campus happy because that's what I'm envisioning for you.
Yes, I am as well. And there's a really lovely animation actually that we have in the Headspace app, which is called Impermanence and Change.
It's very short, maybe just over a minute, but this might help you both understand change and in particular for your dad to help him reframe that change isn't always bad.
That's actually it can be really beautiful and positive and open up a whole host of opportunities.
So definitely check that out as well.
And we also have a navigating change course in the app as well.
Well, good luck, Gabby.
We can't wait to hear how it all turns out.
Yes. Please let us know.
And yeah, do take care.
All right, let's head into our second question from Haley.
Dear Headspace, this is Haley calling in from Maryland with a question about grief.
My family had a series of sort of rapid fire losses, starting with my dad in 2015, followed by both my grandmother's in 2017 and 2018, and ending with the loss of my younger brother in 2019.
I have three older half siblings, whom I love very much, but they all live far away, So really, my only boots on the ground grief buddy in all this has been my mom.
Sometimes it's great to have someone who really understands because they're grieving the loss of the same person that you are, but sometimes it's really tough because we grieve very differently.
When my mom is feeling her worst she needs a lot of verbal validation and support from others.
Whereas when I'm feeling my worst I need to be completely alone so that I can be present with what I'm feeling and with the memory of the person I'm missing.
As you can imagine, this gets tough when we're both experiencing intense grief at the same time because what we need is so different.
After all this time, I feel like I've barely processed the loss of my brother and I think that has a lot to do with not ultimately getting the space and time I need to process alone because I always want to make sure that my mom is getting what she needs.
So, I guess my question for you is, when you and someone close to you are grieving the same loss, what are some best practices for supporting the other person and getting what they need while also making sure that you get what you need, particularly when those needs are opposing?
Thanks for listening and hope to hear from you.
Thank you for your question Hayley, and I'm so sorry for all of the loss that you've experienced recently.
That's a lot. Thank you for for having the the courage to send in your question.
But first and foremost of course we'll get to the crux of your question, but it's really important that you're getting the support that you need and that might need to come from outside of your family.
outside of the relationship with your mom.
And, you know, I get the sense that you're kind of holding the fort, being the one who's closest to your mom, but you've encountered loss back to back and that isn't going to leave very much room to process.
What's happened, and again, without knowing the exact details, there's a very high chance you may also have undergone some trauma associated with these losses and so you might already be doing this and If you're not, I would really really really encourage you to seek out a grief counselor.
Mm -hmm I was super super resistant to that But I think the thing I was most scared about Terrified me was that I was actually going to have to talk about how I was feeling.
Yeah, and We'd have to face the loss.
You'd have to face the pain and the heartbreak that I was feeling, but it helped so much. It also helped me to navigate how my husband was processing the loss of his dad, but also my mom and my sister.
You know, we were in this like thick soup, which it sounds like you are as well of just a lot of heartbreak and sadness and grief.
And like you said, people all process their grief differently, So I tend to just go back to work and shove everything down and try to to -do list things, but then there are other people who sit around and cry.
Yeah, absolutely. I did a similar thing.
When I got back to work, I just threw myself into tasks and projects and lists, and it kept me very busy.
But unfortunately, I also fell to pieces because I wasn't allowing myself the time.
to process and to heal and to accept what had happened.
And that also then meant that I would lash out, I would distance myself from others, which wasn't healthy.
And so having an impartial person who can make sense of all of that, who isn't necessarily so close within the family.
Because like you said, your mom is in it too.
And naturally, you want to take care of your mom.
And my sister and I were the same with my mom but that also meant that we weren't necessarily able to navigate and process what we were going through as well.
Well, I mean, how many times have you heard the airplane metaphor in our lives, like a million about you have to put the oxygen mask on yourself first before you put it on your child and it's the same thing?
Yeah, 100%. And it reminded me of, I think I read it in, in a book called It's okay to not be okay.
And it's around grief, but essentially what the author was saying is that you can't be all things to all people all the time, and so you can't be all things to your mum all the time and neither can she for you.
So, you know, I think and again, of course, It's going to really depend on how comfortable you both are with talking about maybe getting some additional help.
You know, I know my mom was quite resistant to seeing a grief counselor.
She hadn't really ever had therapy, you know, different generation.
And so it can be really, really scary.
But having someone who's trained in grief support can just really help to navigate that thick soup.
I use that analogy because it's almost like you're wading in, it's not soup it's like thick mud.
Yes. I also think, outside of the grief counsellor, if that's uncomfortable or perhaps maybe like too pricey, there are, you know, support groups that are where you can go for… and I think they're incredibly specific.
And I remember on a previous episode with Dora, she said if you live in a town where maybe you're not familiar or to check in with a local hospital and they may have some information of groups that are nearby.
But I think sometimes, especially if you're a person who doesn't feel comfortable, like Eve was talking about with her mom, just hearing other people processing it and being like, oh, I'm not alone, that person's going through something very similar, that can really, I think, can lighten the load sometimes.
Absolutely, and a lot of the times these support groups are free Yeah, based on a community level and you touched on such an important point there, Robyn, around not feeling like you're the only person who's navigating grief.
And it reminds me of like, I lost both my parents younger than all of my friends and now, a lot of my friends are starting to experience that with their parents.
And I had one friend who said to me, you know, I'm so sorry I wasn't there for you.
I didn't know. like I didn't know and I said that's okay, how would you know?
You hadn't experienced it.
And I said, just pay it forward to someone else.
So there might be also people in your life that you can talk to, that have experienced loss.
That's a shared experience.
And I find friends to be really helpful just as a space to talk about it as well.
Absolutely, Robin. Talking about grief and death and loss is very challenging.
challenging and is almost seen as a taboo topic.
I think the more we can open up the conversation and normalize, because sadly everyone will go through some loss and grief.
I certainly wasn't prepared for it when it happened.
What you were saying, Robyn, about paying it forward is recognizing that if you can be there for a friend in a time of need, in a time of when grieving.
You don't necessarily have to fix or solve anything just being there can make all the difference.
Absolutely and you know and there's if you want to be solitary there's journaling you know there's just there's lots of ways to just get your thoughts out and I would really recommend taking time for yourself go do things that fill you up and bring joy and love and light in, especially when you're feeling at a threshold?
Absolutely, and something we also found helpful as a family, and again will vary but depending on your family, but planning some fun things to look forward to together and that maybe involve your half siblings a little bit further away.
You know, we plan little trips, we did some excursions, you know, every few months or So it was really helpful having little things to look forward to, and of course, sometimes that would bring with it lots of tears and sadness, but it also brought a lot of joy and love.
And you know, we were able to feel connected together as a family, and that's not to say you're ignoring what is happening, but what it does is it starts to slowly expand out that really tight circle of grief, and then maybe starting to involve some family friends or some of your mom's friends, encouraging her to go out and do things that she enjoys on her own or with some friends.
I think that was what my mom found the hardest, was to get used to doing things without him.
And so little by little, I actually think my mom now has a better social life than I do.
not kidding go ahead if mom yeah I mean even with everything that she's going through right now she's constantly you know she'll be playing cards with friends online and she'll be going for tea here and you know she's she's getting out and about and but it took some time that didn't happen straight away and so I think encouraging that for your mum could be helpful as well and I just share a quote that someone said to me when I was in the thick of it which was grief is just love with no place to go and just holding that it's love for yourself, it's love for the person as you navigate this time
Hayley and we also have a course in the Headspace app on grieving which you and your mum might find helpful.
It's a 30 -day course led by Andy.
I've done it. It really, really helped both in processing my grief, but also helping me to understand what my mum was going through, my sister, my husband, knowing that we all grieve differently.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, good luck Haley.
We again, we are with you.
And we hope that the grief lessons and you're able to move through this?
Yeah. Go gently Haley.
My heart is with you.
All right, so let's get to our third and final lady of the day.
Here we go. This is Laura.
Hi, my name is Laura.
I'm living in Ireland and I've been working for a company for more than three years now.
The company is going through a lot of changes at the moment.
They're going to move to another county which means that I will have longer commute.
And on top of that, the working atmosphere is not great.
It's pretty toxic. And I feel that there's a lot of unfair things happening around.
So I've been thinking for a long time now because I'm not as happy as I used to be when I started in the company.
And I've been thinking of changing jobs, but there's something that kind of scares me.
I don't know exactly what it is.
probably that I'm scared of failing.
I have a lot of insecurity about it.
I feel like I'm not prepared for the new job that I want performed well.
So I would like some advice from you guys to, to help me deal with this insecurities and take the step and move on.
Thank you. Thank you for this question.
And I have to tell you, this is one that I relate to.
This is like plus one, one, one, one, one, one, one.
You know, I just left a business partnership fairly recently.
And there was a lot of reasons that I needed to leave the partnership, but I had so much fear of like, what if this is the best I'm gonna do?
What if I'm not gonna, you know, nobody's, I'm not gonna be successful outside of this partnership.
you know, what if, what if, what if, what if, what if, what if and they were all fear -based and and I had to recognize that in order to leave and when I when I left so many better things showed up but the fear I stayed for a long time, like several years longer than I should have because of fear.
Yeah, fear can be so paralyzing.
This really makes me think of before I joined headspace many years ago now but I used to work in advertising and for a few years it was a lot of fun.
I got a lot out of it!
But like you, I also worked at a company where the culture was not supportive and pretty toxic and that only increased the stress anxiety I was already experiencing from working insane hours and feeling just undervalued and I was in that same place that it sounds like you are Laura where I thought well well first and foremost I didn't feel like I even had the time to look for another job because I was just so paralyzed by this day of I won't be good enough no one else is going to want to hire me you know what if I fail at my new job what if I get fired like all these like like Robin was saying
the devil you know it's like not great but you know it and you can work it, so you can stay there.
Yeah, exactly. And reading between the lines here with your with your question, but I get the sense from you that you really care a lot about doing a good job.
And not everyone does.
Yeah, that is very true.
Let's be real about that.
And I think that probably speaks to the fact that you're working with some people who may be where your values are just really misaligned.
and very often though our gut instinct is right yes and our intuition that something isn't quite right it's normally because something isn't quite right and you know we actually talked about this in our first question with Gabby that change can be really scary yes and naturally we'll resist change But what Robin said, and I just, I really, really believe this, having been through it myself multiple times over, is that actually making a change can open you up to a whole host of opportunities.
Like if I hadn't have left my job in advertising and taken a massive gamble at the time, to join this tiny startup called Headspace, where there was like 10 people, I wouldn't be sat here today having this conversation with Robin with you answering your question.
You know, by the way, I wouldn't be here had I not left that partnership, right?
I would not have been able to take this job full -time and I wouldn't be hosting this podcast. Exactly and sometimes when difficult things happen and we have to make difficult decisions it can feel like no positive can come from it because we're really grappling with that decision but actually when you do make that change or make that decision, it can be so freeing.
And so something that sprung to mind when I was listening to a question Laura was maybe write down the values that are important to you from a company.
Because it does sound like where you currently are, that there's maybe some misalignment.
And look, of course, in a working situation where we're to work with people that we find difficult, that are challenging, we'll have to do work that we maybe don't always enjoy, that maybe is boring sometimes that isn't...
we're not totally passionate about.
That's all normal. That's all very normal.
But deep down, if there is a real misalignment in terms of values like how you feel supported, empowered, inspired, encouraged, valued, heard, if they are all consistently not happening, that might be a good indication to start at least just looking at what else is out there.
And I want to add on to what you said Eve about writing down what you're looking for.
I think that's wonderful because it's like, to me, the beginning of kind of putting it out into your energy out toward what you want, but I also would say to you, Laura, to write down all the amazing things you bring as a worker.
like I call it like the Robin Hopkins One Sheet.
Like whenever I'm feeling down, I start my One Sheet of all the things that I know that I bring.
And every time I do that exercise, I'm surprised.
I'm like, oh yeah, I forgot I do that.
Oh, I forgot I do that.
So I think it's a really great place to start.
Oh yeah, I love that suggestion.
And if you find it hard writing about yourself in the first person, write as if you're talking about your friend, Laura, Oh, that's a good idea.
All of the amazing things that she brings to the table, both in your personal life, but also, you know, professionally as well.
Now, things you're proud of, accomplishments, challenges you've overcome.
I, because I sometimes, when I write, you know, I can, there can be that little bit of a barrier up there sometimes.
And if you haven't done an exercise like that before, just reframing it can be helpful.
But I love the idea and you'll be so amazed to how wonderful you are.
Yeah. I know. We already know how wonderful you are.
And if you add a section two of all of the accomplishments that you did at your job, I think like those three components, knowing what you're looking for in a company, knowing all that you bring as a person and accomplishments that you've done, you are well -versed to begin talking to people about your next move.
And it's all movement towards something versus like what Eve was saying earlier or being stuck and held down and no opportunity or feeling like you have no way out.
Action always helps me start moving towards something.
Yeah, you may also want to possibly consider maybe working with a mentor.
Oh, yeah. Someone that either you know well or perhaps you could reach out to your network to see if anyone could recommend anyone.
We're very fortunate in today's technological 24 -7 world.
there are many different ways that you can form a, you know, a relationship with a mentor or business coach or there are, you know, courses online and things that might help you, again, have some impartial advice navigating, making a career move or change.
And often, you know, particularly as women, we may talk ourselves down.
Learning to talk yourself up.
Eve, start singing sisters are doing it for themselves.
You don't want to hear me sing.
I do though, Eve, I do!
I'm singing it in my head.
Okay. That works. That works.
But yeah, maybe if you have some PTO maybe just take a few days off just to give yourself a little bit of space.
You mentioned there would have to be a different commute to this other office, maybe try that commute and if it feels awful, which it may that's also another indication of is this something I want to do every day.
Because I've been in that situation where we're like it's fine I'll listen to podcasts and I'll speak to friends, audio books.
Exactly and then no. No just miserable in bumper traffic.
You feel very resentful of the time that is being taken away from you and that will build over time and of course look we don't all have the luxury of I don't do a commute, I'm gonna move jobs." Obviously I'm not saying that, but if you can just start putting some finas out.
Start focusing your attention on yourself.
Well, Eve, I know I've said this before, but I love each and every one of those questions and I love that we are taking back Women's History Month with some strong, powerful ladies and our questions.
I mean this was a good one, Eve.
It really was and the thing that stood out to me with all their questions was just their level of awareness, their consideration, their thoughtfulness, both for other people, but ultimately they were looking out for themselves and I think that is just so empowering and I would encourage anyone listening, do the same.
Absolutely, so thank you, Gabby, Haley and Laura for your questions and you know if you're out there and you're listening and you're like, I got a question and I'd like it answered on Dear Headspace.
Well, I mean, we couldn't make it easier for you.
You just need to head over to sayhi .chat slash dear headspace.
There's some prompts that you're gonna follow.
You're gonna record your question.
And if we use your question on the show, you're gonna get three months of Headspace for you or a loved one.
I mean, is that not a deal Eve or what?
That is a deal. So now it's one of my favorite bits of the show And it's that time that we've built in to the episode to allow you to process everything that you've just heard, a little moment to transition from this moment to the next moment in your day.
As you listen to the sounds of a rainstorm in Delhi, let your mind do whatever it wants to do.
Until next time. Stay happy, stay healthy.
and be kind to yourself and each other.
Let's get started. Samantha Snowden and Eve Lewis Prieto.
Sound recording and post -production is by Dan Kroll, music is by Scott Sorensen and Chris Mercier, and a very special thanks to Colleen Lunce.
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