This is Forever Ago, where we explore the before.
Maeve, remember how Manica started a soap stand a while back?
Oh, yeah.
I wonder how it's going.
Have you seen her new commercial?
Uh, no.
Show me.
Get ready, because it is really something.
Come on down to the historical soap stand.
Hi, I'm Mainika, and I'm here with a bunch of soaps at the Storical Soap Stand.
You might not have heard the word storical before, and that's because we took the word historical and shortened it so that all the words in our store name could start with an S.
And if you like that, you'll love what we've got at our stand.
It all starts with S. It's all kinds of special soap.
Because you know, normal stores have normal stuff.
Maybe they carry liquid soap.
That's pretty exciting.
Maybe they have some modern day soap bars.
Okay.
Maybe they also have a special section of high fiber cereal.
But us, at the historical soap stand, you won't find any cereal.
What you will find are soaps from the past.
We can tell you all about what washing was like way back.
So come on down.
We'd love to show you around.
We'll see you soon at the historical soap stand.
Yeah.
Whoa.
We have to go over there, right?
Yes.
Immediately.
Hello and welcome to Forever Ago from APM Studios.
I'm Joy Dolo.
And I'm Maeve.
And today we're meeting Forever Ago producer Manica Wilhelm at her historical soap stand, partly to make sure she's okay.
Yeah, that was quite a commercial.
But also to find out about baths and soaps of the past.
So Maeve, do you have a favorite soap smell?
I like this body wash that was like vanilla scented.
And the thought that passed me is, what if lions mistake us for food because we smell like this?
Yeah.
What if lions smell vanilla and they're like, oh, ice cream.
Yum.
Or like candy.
That's me.
Yeah.
I smell ice cream.
Are you ice cream?
Yeah, I told you that story about when I was younger and I had that strawberry soap and I was like oh, it smells good.
I better eat it.
And I did.
And that was the end of the story.
Oh, don't eat soap, kids.
Yeah.
So do you find soap relaxing?
I mostly find the hot water running down my back relaxing.
I mean it feels nice to like scrub myself and feel clean, but it's mostly the water that does it for me.
So you're mostly there for the water, not so much for the soap.
Yeah.
Yeah, I hear that.
I like a little bit of both too.
Oh, here comes Mainika to show us around.
Hi, Mainika.
Hey, you two.
It's so good to see you both.
Are you here thanks to our great new commercial?
Yeah, we did see it.
It was, uh, hey, look at all these soaps.
Yeah, we can feature all kinds of soaps here because soap has been around for thousands of years.
You can make it from a mix of ashes, water, and fat.
We specialize in soap bars here at The Soap Stand, but I'll also say some plants have helped people scrub-a-dub-dub throughout history.
Like in ancient India, people made body scrubs from a tree called the soapberry tree.
And in China, people used the Chinese honey locust plant for its suds.
Ooh, I can't wait to add historical soap to my nighttime bath routine.
I've been in a lavender rut.
Well, I hate to disappoint a visitor such as yourself, but many of the soap bars you see here were never used for baths.
I'll let the soaps tell you more about that.
I won't steal their thunder.
May I take over for a moment, Maynika?
Sure, I'm soap.
But I've never been in a bath.
So I think I can help out here.
Please.
So this is Greenie.
She's a little over a thousand years old.
That's right.
I'm a bar of Aleppo soap.
That's the type of soap I am because I'm from Aleppo, Syria.
But like Menaka said, I go by greenie.
I love your nice pale green color.
Thank you.
I'm made of olive oil and laurel oil, which comes from bay leaves.
And those oils give me this nice hue.
So you're from roughly the Middle Ages or medieval times?
Yep, usually we think of medieval times being in Europe.
I'm from the Middle East, and historians call my time the Islamic Golden Age.
It was a great era.
People were building big temples called mosques, learning a lot about astronomy and medicine and math, writing books on paper and, of course, making soaps like me.
So many achievements!
Yeah, people made me in Syria for a long time.
Normal people used me for my lovely smell.
But mainly, people took baths and scraped themselves off to get clean.
They had special tools for scraping and scrubbing.
I was part of hygiene, but not the star of the show.
Eventually, about 1000 years ago, I was brought to places like Europe where I was used in small doses.
Almost like an ointment or a perfume.
People rubbed on a little soap to smell better or to clear up a skin rash, too.
Uh, so Greeny didn't help people wash up in the shower?
I don't really know what you mean by that word.
Shower?
Oh, yeah, those were invented way after your time.
Figures.
But people did wash.
In Europe, for example, people washed their hands and faces every day.
In many cities and towns in Europe there were bathhouses where people could go soaked together in a big wooden tub.
The vats of water reminded people in England of stew, like the food.
So there, they called the bathhouses the stews.
But it wasn't really about getting clean.
It was more like a chill activity to do with other people.
Bathtubs were more like bath clubs.
That gives me a little bit of the ewes.
Were they going to bathhouses or the stews like every day?
No, once every couple of weeks.
But people in the Middle Ages in Europe just thought of cleanliness differently than we do.
There were a lot of smells around.
People lived close to farm animals.
Their toilets didn't have lids.
Nobody thought their whole body needed to smell like soap.
I guess if everything smells, a smelly body fits right in.
Well said.
Now, time for me to go.
I'm joining a few other soaps for a salami sandwich lunch.
Okay, bye.
Have fun, Greenie.
Wow, that's wild.
Yeah, I can't believe a bar of soap can eat a salami sandwich.
Oh, I was more surprised that Greeny is from a time where baths didn't include soap.
Oh, right.
Yeah, same.
Hey, over here.
Baths without soap is nothing.
I'm from a time when people thought baths would kill them.
Oh, yeah, that's our 1600 soap.
He's pretty cranky.
Don't call me cranky, Manica.
Call me Suds.
Nice to meet you.
Howdy doody, Suds.
What was life without baths like?
Well, I'm from about 400 years ago in North America.
In my time, Native Americans had already lived there for millennia and they were familiar with bathing.
They'd hop in water and use sweat lodges where people held religious ceremonies and got clean.
But people from England were new.
They lived in wooden houses with thatched roofs.
They lit fires for warmth and slept on straw mattresses.
And they made me a soap out of animal fat and ashes.
But they didn't have baths.
Right.
Back then, there was no running water or bathrooms in the home.
So, Suds, if there was no baths, how did European people wash with you?
Oh, they didn't.
See, for a colonist, the best way to get clean was to wear a white linen shirt.
White linen shirts instead of baths?
So just fabric, no water at all?
In colonial times, European people thought warm water made you sick.
Yeah, no one really knew about germs yet.
Oh, right.
That came later.
So instead of water, they put on linens and figured the clean cloth would draw dirtiness away.
So they'd get dirty.
Put on linens, linens would soak up the dirt and then they'd wash the linens.
With me a heart-strong soap that loves a good chore.
Wow, you love chores?
Who doesn't?
Now, if you need me, I'll be over here reading a magazine that's all words and no pictures.
Oh, OK.
Have fun.
Bye.
Manica, I have to tell you I thought the historical soap stand would have way more soaps that people used for washing their bodies.
Oh, don't worry.
We have those, too.
Eventually, bathing did change to look more like the hygiene we know today.
And I know just the soap to tell you about that.
Perfect.
But first, we got to take a quick break to play Fast Instructions.
It's the game where we try to put things in order from oldest to newest.
Our three things today are kids' bubble bath, rubber ducks, and shower caps.
So Maeve, which came first in history?
Which came second in history?
And which came third in history?
I think shower caps came first.
Maybe rubber ducks and then kids bubble bath.
Why do you think shower caps came first?
Oh, because I seem old because I don't know.
It always seems like that, like people who are like old use them or like, especially like when swimming.
I don't know.
Yeah.
I don't know.
They just seem like a thing that would, like, happen, like, to keep your hair nice.
Like, how women, like, would do it while, like, cleaning, maybe.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Also, I think I remember seeing, like, older cartoons, like, with people with, like, shower caps.
And so, like, definitely times when, like, that was around.
And then, like, kids bubble bath.
I mean, I guess, if we think about it like the suds and the soap and everything, it's like a liquid soap.
So that would be like a newer thing.
Yeah.
And then like rubber ducks, it's like rubber and duck.
Quank.
Exactly.
Yeah.
You know, rubber ducks, I think, is what's up in the air for me.
I'm not, I can't figure out when that would have been first, second or third.
Because, you know, like rubber is old.
Like rubber has been around.
It's part of the earth, you know?
Like technically rubber is part of the earth, but we kind of like mold it into something.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, so you said shower caps, rubber ducks, kids bubble bath.
Yeah.
I'm going to say rubber ducks, one.
And shower caps, two.
And kids bubble bath, three.
So we agree on that.
We'll be back with the answer in just a bit.
Here at Forever Ago, we're building a time capsule.
It's a collection of things to show people in the future what our lives are like today.
And we want to know what you'd put in that time capsule.
What things really capture the essence of today?
Record yourself telling us about the item you have in mind and why you want to save it and send it to us at foreveragoorg slash contact.
Maybe you've got a killer recipe for bath bombs or a photo of your favorite rubber duck or your favorite shower cap.
Maeve, what would you put in a time capsule this week?
Probably the bath bombs I've been sitting in my drawer for like four or five years.
For like three, four years.
Yeah.
What do you think the bath bombs would tell people about today?
Maybe like what things are made out of along with like the types of smells people are really into.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it's kind of interesting because like bath bombs, they have a certain use, right?
Like just being in the bath and, you know.
Being in the bath make you smell good.
Like people in the future would probably take baths, you think?
I hope they do.
I hope they don't just walk around without a bath.
More Forever Go in just a moment.
Don't go anywhere.
This is Forever Ago.
I'm Joy Dolo.
And I'm Maeve.
And it's time to find out which thing came first.
Are you ready for this, Maeve?
Am I?
We'll find out.
Okay, drum roll.
Guess what's first.
Shower caps.
Yo.
You're right.
I was correct.
The first shower as we know it was invented in 1767 and shower caps soon followed after that.
So they were made to protect hair and block the sensation of water falling on the head.
But I like the feeling of water hair.
Well, I guess some folks back then did not like that.
In fact, back then some people thought washing your hair might be bad for you.
They've got all the germs and stuff you want to keep them in your hair.
Why?
Early shower caps weren't like the plastic mushroom shaped ones people wear now.
They were made from water resistant cloth and were cone shaped like really tall birthday hats.
Cone head.
Or like an upside down ice cream cone.
Perfect for a party in the shower.
Shower party.
So that was the first one.
And guess what the second one was?
Uh-oh.
It was rubber ducks.
I was right.
You were right.
I was right.
You were totally right.
Yeah, you did it three times in a row.
The classic bath time rubber ducky we know and love was invented in 1947.
The inventor was a dude named Peter Gannon.
And even back then lots of kids didn't like taking baths, but Rubber Ducks made bath time like super exciting.
Squeak, squeak, quack.
Squeak, squeak, quack.
Get in the dub.
Sesame Street made Rubber Ducks extra famous when Ernie introduced this bath time bop in 1970.
Oh, Rubber Ducky, you're the one.
You make bath time lots of fun.
Rubber Ducky, I'm awfully fond of you.
So last and not least at all is kids bubble bath.
That was most recently in history.
Bubble baths for kids became popular in the 1960s thanks to brands like Mr. Bubble.
Bubble baths first started showing up in the 1930s or so, but it wasn't until later that they were marketed towards kids.
And this is a cool fact.
Bubbles trap heat.
Did you know that?
I guess that would make sense.
And they help keep the water warmer for longer so you can have a nice long bubble bath.
Oh, plus it makes sense like when you blow the bubbles you technically put in your hot air from your mouth.
Inside of the bubble.
Yeah.
So it can float.
We all learned something today.
All right, back to our tour of Manica's historical soap stand.
Where you can always count on the soaps to surprise you.
Definitely.
All these times without baths and baths without soap.
My brain's all bubbly with these new bath facts.
So people in Europe in the Middle Ages washed some but didn't use much soap.
And when Europeans came to America, they hardly washed at all.
Right.
Meanwhile, around the world, baths were more common.
People in India bathed as part of their daily routine.
And in Western Africa people were making a soap called black soap and using it to wash up regularly too.
So it was kind of the Western world, Europe and the United States that had something against scrubbing.
Yeah, but eventually in the United States, baths became way more common.
Meet Ivory Soap.
And just a heads up, she's a little dramatic.
Yoo-hoo!
I'm Ivory Soap.
I go by Nell.
Oh, wow.
Hey, Nell.
Ivory Soap.
Like the bars that you can still buy in stores today?
Yep.
But I'm much older than those young bars.
I'm from the 1870s.
Whoa.
So, like, my great-great-great-great-grandparents could have used you?
Yes.
That's a lot of greats, just like me.
So, here's the lowdown on my lifetime.
Cars aren't around yet, but trains are.
And so are factories.
And everything is about to change for me and lots of other soaps.
Really?
Yeah.
Soap before my time was for luxury or laundry.
Not exactly prime time news.
But me, I knew from the beginning I was meant to be famous.
Like everybody knows my name, have to wear sunglasses to the grocery store famous.
Wow, how'd you swing that?
Two big reasons.
The first one is that people have changed their minds about baths.
Remember how the colonists were worried that getting in a bath could make them ill?
For baths to get big, people had to start thinking about diseases differently.
And they did.
Yeah, scientists started figuring out how sickness really spread, and it wasn't just in water.
So they started telling people that washing in water was okay, even good.
That's because scientists were getting really into a new tool called the microscope.
And with better microscopes, they could look at all kinds of stuff very closely.
And under the microscope, they saw little tiny living things like bacteria and microbes, germs.
There was an important idea cropping up about disease.
It's called germ theory.
Ooh, get ready, you two.
Whenever Nell says germ theory, she bursts into a newsy paperboy-inspired monologue about it.
So I give it three, two...
Extra, extra front page news, germ theory.
Is germ theory real?
We are under attack by invisible organisms.
That's how sicknesses actually spread.
Little tiny bacteria and viruses make us ill.
The only way to fight them off is with a wash.
No, not just once a month.
Wash at least once a week.
Illnesses do not come from getting into water.
They're from germs, and they travel around all the time.
They get you whilst you pick your nose and when you sneeze on your friend.
Or when your friend sneezes on you.
Oh, so people stopped thinking baths will let illness in through their skin.
And they started working out that, even though you couldn't see infection-causing germs, you could wash them away.
Exactly.
So, people are getting acquainted with the idea of germs and getting more into baths.
But here's my favorite part.
The second thing that really catapults me, body soap, to stardom!
It's factories.
Companies at this time are making more stuff in factories, including soap.
They can make way more soap in a big factory than anyone has ever made at home.
And so... Yeah?
Tell us, tell us.
Your charisma is so magnetic.
These soap companies decide to improve people's soap-buying skills with something called advertisements.
Like ads on TV or video commercials?
Right.
But the radio isn't even invented yet.
In my time, the ads are printed in magazines and newspapers, and they make me look great.
Seriously, I look amazing.
These advertisements really sell the soap out of me.
And they tell people, you've got to take baths with soap way more often.
So my historical soap stand commercial is actually just one small piece of a very long historical tradition of advertising for soap.
Yes, soap companies wanted people to know that without soap, little old me, they'd have no friends.
Soap advertisements made people feel like they were dirty.
They needed soap, and then also deodorant and shampoo.
Wow.
So in this present-day moment, people do use a lot of soap in baths because soap makers told them to.
Pretty much.
You humans really listened to the message.
And it wasn't just advertisements, actually.
When the radio did get invented, soap companies sponsored radio plays.
And those dramas were called soap operas.
That's where the term actually comes from.
I'm famous in many different ways.
They really worked everyone to a lather about hygiene.
But I've heard some people say these days we might be washing too much.
That's true.
Some scientists think we're way too clean, that we're washing off too many helpful microbes and drying out our skin.
Oh, don't burst my bubble.
I'd be better off using my time to run lines for my next performance, a hand washing on Broadway.
Bye-bye.
So, Maynika, how come there aren't any price tags on anything?
Doesn't your soap stand sell soap?
Um, no.
I thought the name was pretty clear.
This is a place where we can stand and talk historical soap.
Right.
A soap stand where we stand.
Well, let's stand by for the theme music in three, two, one.
The way we think about cleaning our bodies is definitely a cultural thing.
It depends on who you are and what you've learned from other people.
But soap is really helpful for washing.
It washes away bacteria and viruses, which is great when we wash our hands.
Yeah, and overall, using more soap than we did in earlier times is a good thing.
It's just that we might not need quite as many baths as we take now.
Right.
It depends on you as a person.
But most people can probably go at least a day without a bath.
Oh, but don't go too long.
This episode was produced by Maynica Wilhelm Sandon Totten and Molly Bloom, with additional production support from Anna Goldfield, Grace Totter, Kalaysha Toddy and Tara Anderson.
Sound design by Eduardo Perez.
Theme music by Mark Sanchez.
Beth Perlman is our executive producer.
Voice acting by Anna Wagle, Melanie Rene, and Rosie DuPont.
We had engineering help from Jess Berg and Rachel Breeze.
The executives in charge of APM Studios are Chandra Kavadi, Joanne Griffith, and Alex Schaffert.
Special thanks to Katherine Ashenberg, who wrote All the Dirt A History of Getting Clean, and also to Peter Ward, who wrote The Clean Body A Modern History.
And now it's time to add things to our time capsule.
Here's what we're putting in this week.
I would put a koala in the time capsule because they're endangered and they're really cute.
And I would put in my first edition Pokemon card, because you can't get first edition Pokemon cards in like 100 years.
Thanks to Sully and Henry for those excellent time capsule suggestions.
Maeve, would you please do the honor of telling our listeners how they can have the chance to hear their time capsule submissions.
Send us your time capsule ideas at foreverago.org slash contact.
We'll feature new answers in every episode.
And of course, as always, we'll go way back.
Thanks for listening.
