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Louis, thanks for joining us today.
Kwame, thanks for having me.
It's an honor to be here on your podcast. Yeah, it's our pleasure to have you, my friend.
So how would you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.
Yeah, well, as you know, I'm a Sandler trainer, and Sandler is the world's largest sales training organization.
Most people know us for sales training, but we also do leadership and sales leadership training, customer service training.
We even have a course on negotiation.
And typically, business owners will come to us to solve challenges they're having around prospecting, closing, shortening sales cycles, But recently, I'm really focused on helping mission -driven entrepreneurs build world -class sales teams and hone their sales leadership skills as they grow their sales team so that they can do more good in the world and serve more people that they serve best and most profitably.
That's my focus. I love it.
I love it. And today, we are going to talk about the importance of setting expectations.
And this is something that obviously I've seen in the negotiation world.
You've seen a lot in the sales world, and we see it every day in the real world, in business and in our personal life.
And it's one of those hidden negotiations that people often miss.
So let's start from square one.
So, Louis, when we talk about setting expectations, what does that even mean?
Yeah, well, you know, the negotiation process really for the first negotiation you do is with yourself, right?
It's a matter of preparing ahead of any interaction to say, what is my goal?
And what is my intent here?
And I've heard you talk about how you're naturally competitive, and so you have to think ahead of time maybe to be a competitive listener.
And so many salespeople, they come into the sales interaction, and they're thinking about how they can help this person.
they're thinking about how they have helped other people like this person.
They're enthusiastic about it.
They've been taught to be enthusiastic about it, or maybe they're not even a salesperson, but they're an expert in their field.
And so they're thinking about all this knowledge they have to share.
And so sometimes the first step is setting expectations with yourself, right?
That I have to make sure that I pay attention to, as you so often talk about in in this podcast, listening to the other person and finding out what's important to them.
And so, when I talk with salespeople and I say, what's the expectation for this sales meeting?
What's your goal for this sales meeting?
And they may tell me what that goal is.
And my next question is, does the prospect know that?
And oftentimes they don't, right?
They just, the salesperson was just glad to get the meeting.
And especially if the meeting was a really really, big prospect.
Somebody may be at a higher position than they are, or, you know, really hard to get into.
As soon as they get the appointment, they're off the phone and, you know, hey, I got one.
And they don't really set any expectations around what the agenda for the meeting is going to be, or what we might decide, or who else ought to be there.
And so, So that first negotiation you have to have is about what are these things that I'm going to be looking for?
What are my negotiables?
What are my non -negotiables?
Who needs to be there?
How much time do I have?
So many times salespeople or other business professionals shortchange themselves, especially, again, if they've got somebody that was a hard -to -get meeting.
I remember when I first started my Sandler business, and I got a meeting with what I thought was a really great prospect.
And it was very, very early days, right when I was beginning my, and I called my coach and I said, I have this meeting.
And he said, well, how long is the meeting going to be?
I said, well, it'll probably just be real short because, you know, I think he'll, yeah, he probably, there's probably nothing here.
And, and he said, well, what is he expecting?
Well, we didn't talk about that.
And does he know what the agenda for the meeting is?
And he said, I said, no. I guess I didn't set that up.
So, I picked up the phone, or I think I picked the phone.
I said, hey, you know, I'm so excited to be able to meet with you, John.
Let's call him. And I'm curious, you know, how long do you have for the meeting?
And he told me he had 30 minutes or an hour.
And he told, I think it was actually an email that I reached back out to him, which is not ideal, by the way.
But he said, I have this long, and I'm really looking forward to hearing what you have to say because we're thinking about these issues.
How much better was that?
When I got to the meeting, I knew that he really was interested.
You know, and I've had that conversation I don't know how many times with clients over the years.
You know, I had a client who was flying from here in Ohio to New Jersey to meet with a very big, you know, multi -million dollar client of theirs, a potential client of theirs, I should say.
And there were going to be vice presidents and, you know, people with big titles in this meeting.
And my client said to me, I think it's just going to be a quick meet and greet.
And I said, we'll call him John.
He'll remain anonymous, you know, to protect the guilty.
I said, John, why do you think these people with these big titles would invite you to come all the way across the country to meet with them when they have lots of important things to do?
It was just a meet and greet.
Pick up the phone and see what they're expecting.
expecting. And he called me back.
He said, this is incredible.
I mean, the fact that you had me do that totally changed the dynamics of that meeting because I didn't, you know, I had no idea I was stepping into a great opportunity and it was not a few minutes of meet and greet.
Of course, there was some reason that they were going to take time out of their day to meet with him.
So, so we need to, you know, I mean, setting expectations.
You know, I mentioned to you you before that I had always been taught permission -based selling, asking permission, hey, would it be okay if I asked you a few questions?
And I'd been taught to set a roadmap for the sales process.
And those are both great things, but they're two sides of the coin.
They're two pieces of the puzzle.
At Sandler, we teach people to put those together and set what we call our upfront contracts.
And an upfront contract means that you're agreeing ahead of time to certain things up front and it's a contract simply because it's an agreement.
I tell my clients, the one time you want to negotiate in a sales process is up front.
And that is the opposite of what most salespeople do, right?
Most salespeople come in and they show up and throw up and they tell all of their stuff and they do their dog and pony show and they share all their expertise and they do a lot of free consulting.
And then they hope that if, if they like me, they'll buy from me.
And then at the end, when the prospect says that's too much, now they have to begin to negotiate price and negotiate terms. But at Sandler, we say, no, really, the only time you want to be doing negotiating, we want to figure out what all of the parameters are along the way before we get to the presentation.
We want to understand what's really important to this customer, what their budget is, what their decision -making process is.
So by the time we we get to that, there isn't any negotiation.
We're just letting them buy.
So this is the key, right?
When we're setting the upfront contract, we want to set expectations for that's the way it's going to work, is that I'm going to ask you lots of questions.
I'm probably going to ask you questions you didn't even expect, and I'm going to need to know some details that are, you know, X, Y, and Z.
Are you going to be comfortable talking about those things, Kwame?
me? And you say yes, right?
And you agree. And then if you say you're not, well, this is when negotiation happens, right?
Well, in order for me to share my answers with you, I'm going to need to know X, Y, and Z.
And if by the end we get, it seems like, you know, we might figure out in the middle that there's nothing here.
And if not, that's okay.
So, this is another expectation temptation that we set that no is okay.
See, so many salespeople come to interactions thinking that their job is to persuade people to buy from them.
And that's, see, that's a problem because, well, why is that a problem?
It's a problem because they might not need what you have. It might not be a match. They might not need what you have, right?
And if they do need need what you have. Why else might it be a problem?
They might not be the right person with the right budget to buy what you have. Yeah.
Or they might not realize they need what you have and they might not be open enough to be able to see it, in which case, you know, they're still not your prospect.
Right. Or here's one more thing.
Even if all of those things are there, nobody wants to be sold.
I mean, we go to the store and the clerk says to us, can I help you?
And what do we always say?
No. Right. We put up our hand and we say, I'm just looking.
It's not true. We're there tonight to buy a mattress.
We're going to buy it tonight.
But we tell the salesperson, I'm just looking.
And so we need to realize that that's going to happen ahead of time so that we can set expectations.
And we can and learn expectations too, right?
In this podcast, if there's one word that comes up more often than any other, it's probably another word that begins with L, right?
Listen. Yeah, absolutely.
And so many times salespeople go in with their expectations, but they don't have any idea what the prospect's expectations are, right?
It's mutually agreed upon.
It's both directions.
You know, that's why we call it an upfront contract, Because as a lawyer, what defines a good contract?
What defines a good contract?
Let me go through this and try to simplify it as much as possible.
In two or three quick points.
Yeah, multiple parties agreeing mutually upon the terms, signing and then moving forward. That's all true.
And one more thing.
I remember a long time ago starting a business and I paid a lawyer a whole bunch of money to review the contract.
And we sat down. And the first thing he said was, Lewis, the sign of a good contract is that everybody understands the terms. From LinkedIn News, I'm Leah Smart, host of Every Day Better, an award -winning weekly podcast dedicated to personal development.
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And so that's another trait.
Everything you said plus clear understanding between the two, right?
Mutually agreed upon, but in order to be mutually agreed agreed upon, we have to have very clear terms. So everybody has to really know what to expect.
Yeah, this is great.
This is critical. And listeners, you can see how this is applicable in so many different aspects of your life, not just in the business world, because we can see clearly in this situation where let's say it's a sales situation or just really, let's just talk about a meeting, for instance.
And when you're having these conversations and and you don't align on what the expectations are, then it's very difficult to have a productive conversation because different people are defining what makes this particular meeting productive differently.
Because if you go in in this conversation, let's say it's a sales situation where the prospect says, my goal is to just get some information, and then I'll leave, and then I'll talk with my team, and then I might get back to you or not.
That might be their expectation.
But you as a salesperson, you might have the expectation of, we're going to figure out what your needs are.
This is going to be discovery.
And then at the end, we're going to make a decision of whether or not it makes sense to move forward. Those are two very different expectations.
And when those things are not aligned, then you run into unnecessary friction in the process, and both parties end up being unsatisfied a lot of times.
And so it's really interesting, Louis, to see just how much psychological resistance there seems to be with setting expectations up front.
And I think it comes back to what you said, where there's this bias in the sales world and just the world in general, where we want to always get to yes.
I mean, one of the most popular books in negotiation is getting to yes.
And we are afraid of no, but in your process, you're letting them know upfront, hey, it is okay to say no. It is okay for me to say no. We both have freedom and autonomy in this.
And so there's, it seems, and I want to get your perspective on this.
It seems as though there needs to be a a little bit of resilience in the face of potential rejection here, if we're willing to negotiate these upfront contracts and clearly align on expectations.
So something you said there is that oftentimes salespeople don't want to hear no. But this is a really important point that you, when this helps create equal business stature between the two parties, you know, oftentimes a salesperson comes to the the interaction with their seat a half a foot lower than the prospects, right?
They come feeling like the prospect has all the power and they have all the control and they're here to, you know, for instance, I remember a sales manager who taught me.
He would say, you know, we'll be quick and then we'll get out of your hair.
Is that the way two equal parties relate to one another?
No, right? So, this really is, it's a tactic that really helps the salesperson create more equal business stature.
But you mentioned that there's a lot of resistance to this sometimes.
And sometimes when I'm in a training room with salespeople or even non -salespeople, and we're talking about how to use this in their professional meetings, readings, this is perhaps the most assertive thing that we teach at Sandler, and so for some people that is uncomfortable, and what I say to them, okay, is let's practice it with you as the prospect and with the other person leading the upfront contract, and then I say to them, did that feel uncomfortable, and they always say no. In fact, what we find is that when there is a good upfront contract, and when we talk about a strong upfront contract
at Sandler, we're not talking about strong arming someone, we're talking about clarity of mutually agreed upon expectations.
When there is a good upfront contract, it creates comfort.
And here's another thing that salespeople struggle with, is that they struggle with the idea that not only does nobody like to be sold, but people have a little bit of inherent fear about salespeople, about being sold, right?
Right. And what that creates is that people tend not to be totally honest with someone who is selling something.
You talk about compassionate curiosity, and I tell my clients the first rule is be curious.
The second rule is be skeptical, because as a salesperson, you've got to realize that not everybody's going to give you the honest answer right up front.
It's your job to change this interaction and create an environment that fosters transparency.
So the upfront contract can help you do that when you do exactly what you said a few minutes ago, Kwame, and you say, we may figure out that there's nothing here.
And oftentimes I'll lead with my no. I will lead with, hey, you mentioned earlier, you can say no, I can say no. Now, that's a foreign concept to a lot of salespeople.
And in fact, I've had sales managers.
I remember a sales manager I met with and she said, we're doing in -home sales.
I can't tell the prospects it's okay to say no, or they'll say no. And I said, well, what's your closing ratio now?
She said about 20%.
I said, then 80 % of the people are already saying no. They're just not telling you, right?
They're telling you we'll think about it.
They're telling you call me in two weeks.
And then when you call in two weeks, they don't answer because people have caller ID now, and they don't want to tell you no, right?
Right. That's the last thing people want to do is tell you what you don't want to hear.
And by the way, if you're really likable and you've shared lots of free knowledge with them, then you create you actually make it harder for people to say no. So by giving them permission to say no, you actually become more trustworthy.
You create a safer environment for them to be more transparent with you.
and transparency is always good in communication, whether it be a negotiation or any other kind of conversation.
So that's something that this has the effect of is that it helps the salesperson feel like they have rights and that we're equal stature, but it helps the prospect feel more comfortable and it creates more trust. When I ask salespeople, what is your strategy for creating trust. Get ready because they're about to make something up.
I mean, nobody has an intentional strategy for that.
They're winging it.
Almost most salespeople are winging it, but particularly in this area, salespeople think that their supposed likability or good people skills are going to be the reason people buy.
And in some cases, certainly that's a help, but in today's world, it takes more than that.
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Yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense.
That makes a lot of sense.
And to me, again, going back to the reality of trust and the importance of trust in these interactions, if I can trust that you will be a straight shooter with me, you're not trying to hide the ball, then I'm going to feel a lot more comfortable being a straight shooter with you, not going to hide the ball either.
Right. And so by demonstrating this conversational leadership, by saying, this is how we will converse.
This is what the expectations will be.
I will let you know that you can say, no, I want you to give me the same right as well.
We're on the same level.
Then people follow suit and then they are more candid and are willing to share more.
more. I love the term you just used, Kwame.
I'm going to steal that, conversational leadership.
I told you earlier that I've often said that what I'm working with clients on in a sales training, for instance, is that it's really just communication skills and leadership skills applied in a sales context.
But as you said earlier, these skills, they're broadly applicable.
I mean, I've had people say that this idea of upfront contracts, I mean, totally transform their relationship with their teenager for about seven minutes.
And, you know, I mean, you can't have real high expectations with a teenager.
But, you know, these are things that you can apply when you're out with friends, when you're in a dating relationship, whatever, right?
I mean, let's talk about some of the other things we might set expectations about.
I mean, how many times, if there are salespeople listening, they're going to be able to relate to all these things, but probably other people can too, right?
How many times has it happened that you went on a sales meeting and you thought you had a half hour or an hour?
Heck, that's what you sent the Outlook invitation for.
And so they should know that this meeting is going to be for an hour.
And 20 minutes in, they say, oh, I forgot to tell you.
I have a meeting in six minutes.
And you just spent the whole first 20 minutes being likable.
Now you're going to turn into a motor mouth and try and get all of your sales in in the next five minutes.
It's not going to work, right?
So we've got to get clear expectations about how long the meeting's going to be.
And I always tell people, give yourself more time, not less.
Don't say, can I get 15 minutes of your time and then try to take two hours?
Because that doesn't create trust. When you say, hey, sometimes these meetings take an hour, but we may not need that long.
when you know that you're always done within 45 minutes and you'll be able to give some time back to them that creates trust that creates credibility give yourself plenty of time on that time agreement and then the next thing is i like to ask what are you you know i mean and you might even do the time agreement by saying hey how much time do you have i know we set the meeting for an hour but are we still good for an hour is there anything that has you know that might come up that would interrupt us so get clear agreement and get true agreement and i always say if you're setting the upfront contract
and you're running through it and they're doing the bobblehead thing and they're just nodding their head yeah yeah that's not agreement when i say is there anything it might interrupt us or do you need to tell your secretary to hold your calls now we're getting in real agreement right and then the next thing is what is the agenda of the meeting right and so i like to ask people are there two or three things you thought of between the time we set the meeting and the time we got together that you want to make sure that we talk about today or um you know and they may not have an answer to that and if not you
can plant the questions.
You can say, well, usually business owners want to ask me about X, Y, or Z.
But before I answer those questions, some of the things I'm going to need to know from you are A, B, C.
Will you feel comfortable answering those?
I mean, in my world, I might say we're going to need to talk about current revenues and what your goals are for the next three years and profit margins.
You're going to be okay talking about those things?
All right, great. So, we've set the headlines.
By the way, we're not answering those questions.
When they give us the question, this is oftentimes a point where people get derailed on their upfront contract.
Because when I say, what are the most important things that we talk about today?
And the prospect starts telling me about every salesperson they have. And, you know, and this guy's good at that.
And this guy's not very good.
And this guy, I'm not even sure why I hired him.
I don't need to know all that right now.
I just want the headlines of what we're going to talk about.
So I had to learn learn to tweak my question to say, well, what are the things that we want to make sure we talk about today before we're done?
Not what are your biggest challenges?
You know, because now they're going to delve into the whole discussion.
That's, we're just setting the table.
We're not eating the meal yet.
And so we want to know their agenda.
We want to know our agenda.
And then the last piece is the piece that most people forget.
By the way, if you do that time agreement and you you lay out agenda and not just lay out agenda but get their, you know, an understanding of their agenda, you'll be more professional than most salespeople.
But you might not sell anymore.
And the only problem is that salespeople's job is not to be likable and professional.
It's to get sales done.
So here's the magic of the upfront contract that most people are least comfortable.
That's the part that's most uncomfortable.
It's let's talk about what we can decide today.
What is the outcome of this meeting going to be?
And when I think back to the worst sales meetings I ever had, they were the ones where I came out of the meeting and I thought, that was a great meeting, but I'm not sure what we accomplished.
Or I'm not sure that we set any follow up.
They said, maybe they said, let's stay in touch. Or they said, we'll get back to you.
But unfortunately, we'll get back to you.
What does that mean a lot of times?
we have no intention of ever getting back to you that means we're not interested at all right oftentimes unfortunately because back to that thing we talked about earlier right people are afraid of sales people they're afraid if i tell you no what that you as the salesperson have been taught to do what with no push through it a lot of times overcome it yeah yeah you know You're going to engage me in an arm wrestling match, and I don't want that.
Yeah. So remember now I said – told him already.
So I'm going to tell him in the upfront contract that's not going to happen, that if there isn't anything here, I want you to tell me.
And Kwame, when you say, yeah, I'm a straight shooter, I'll tell you, and I might even push back on that and say, Kwame, you seem like a really nice guy.
Are you sure that if – because what I don't want to happen here is that you figure out that there's nothing here.
I think maybe there is, but you're too nice to tell me that there's not.
And maybe you tell me at the end that you have to think about it and get back to me when the reality is you've already figured out that there's nothing here.
here. So would it be okay if you do figure out that there's nothing here?
Do you think you'd be okay just telling me?
And I tell people, you know, I'll wait till I get out to the car to cry about it.
Nice. Oh, this is good.
You know, a little humor, a little humor will get people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I'm a big boy.
Makes them feel a bit more comfortable.
That's right. You know, I've been selling all my life.
And there's a lot of people who need what we have. So if this isn't right for you, it's okay.
So I like to lead with that no. And I'll tell them, I'll lead with my no. I'll say, sometimes I figured out quickly that there's nothing here.
And if so, I'll tell you.
And likewise, if you figure out that this doesn't seem to be a match made in heaven, I want you to feel comfortable telling me, and then I might push back on their agreement on that to make sure that we really have agreement.
And then I'll say, well, and if neither of us finds, you know, a reason to say no, that leaves us with yes.
So here's what yes looks like.
And one of the hallmarks of a really good upfront contract is clarity around what yes looks like.
And if I tell them that typically what yes looks like is you get out your credit card and, you know, we put a date on the calendar for a first training.
Or we put a date on the, you know, we, you pay me and we do assessments for your people.
That might be a first step.
If they push back on that and they say, oh, gosh, we can't, we're not going to make that decision today.
Then now's the time to negotiate that.
And I can say, well, that's OK.
What can we decide?
At the very least, we could decide that you never want to talk to me again.
If that's the case, right?
At the very least, we could decide that there's no way I ever want to talk to this Lewis guy again.
And so I agree to tell him no. Or if it seems like we need to get someone else involved in this decision, let's figure out when that date would be and put a date on the calendar.
So now we have a clear mutually agreed upon next step.
But here's the magic is if they say yes, if I tell them yes means you're going to get out a credit card and we'll set up assessments for your people.
If they tell me that at the beginning of the meeting, how much more comfortable, how much pressure does that take out of it for me?
How much more comfortable am I going to be asking for the order at the end?
And I remember one where it was, again, in my very early days as a Sandler trainer.
And this was really a new idea to me, even though I'd had great sales training and I had 20 plus years of success as a salesperson.
I'd never done this before.
And my coach, you know, I had a prospect who said, Lewis, our sale is different.
And by the way, every business owner tells me that.
They're all unique.
sneak. And so he said, our sale is different.
It's not a one -call close.
It's a relationship sale.
I said, I get it. And my coach said, my Sandler coach said, here's what I want you to say at the beginning of the call.
I want you to say, John, you mentioned your business is not a one -call close, but is this conversation going to be a one -call close?
And the CEO said, well, that depends on how good you are.
At which point I knew I was going to make a sale today.
right? Or at the very least, I knew I was going to get it.
He was willing to make a decision today.
And it took all the pressure out.
Now, I wasn't getting, you know, more and more nervous as the hour went on, like I got to ask for the order.
And what's he going to say?
I knew he was, I knew I better ask for the order because he invited me to.
It takes all the pressure out.
Yeah. Now, you brought up something about how do we apply this to other situations?
So, let's just talk about that for a minute.
One that comes to mind is employers and employees.
And I was listening to a recent podcast of yours, and you talked about the Michael Scott – I think it was you.
Maybe it was your guest who talked about the episode in the office where Michael Scott just couldn't bring himself to tell somebody something difficult.
It wasn't an employee.
It was like your spouse is having an affair, and he finally gets in the parking lot, and he rolls down the window and says, they're having an affair, and he drives away because he's so nervous about that, right?
Yeah. So this is an example where we can, again, it's like a pressure relief valve.
You know, we take all the pressure out by saying up front, hey, can I talk with you about something difficult?
Like that's a little bit of an upfront contract.
Or how could I tell you something that you may not like without making you mad?
That's a little bit of an upfront contract.
Like, hey, I need to talk with you about something tough.
off. But let's talk about a more formal situation where maybe there's nothing wrong.
It's not a difficult conversation.
It's just a coaching conversation.
And by the way, when people think about coaching, they think about correction, right?
Somebody's doing something wrong.
But at Sandler, our best clients are working to instill a culture of coaching.
And when you think about professional athletes, it would be ridiculous if they said, hey, coach, I really don't want you to watch me.
That makes me nervous.
Or, you know, this practicing, dribbling up and down the court, that's just not real.
I mean, I really, let's just play, let me just go to the game.
This practicing layups, I mean, that's just not reality.
But that's what salespeople say all the time, right?
Is this role play stuff, it makes me uncomfortable.
comfortable. So anyway, a little bit of a rabbit trail I went off on there because practice is really one of the biggest reasons that Sandler has become the most successful training organization in the world is we create this context for practice.
But what I was going to say is in a good, in a positive, in the ideal coaching relationship, this upfront contract applies, right?
Because you say with the person that you're coaching, hey, how long do we have?
What do you want to accomplish during our conversation today?
Are there, you know, Are there issues you want to talk about?
Well, here's the issues I want to talk about.
We can negotiate that agenda.
Hey, we've only got 30 minutes, so I really want to make sure we cover this one.
I can't cover all three of those things you said, but we'll get to the top one.
And before we're done, I'm going to have some homework for you, and we'll circle back in a week.
So there it is, time, agenda, outcome.
Yeah. If you want to remember that, maybe the Tao of Selling, right, T -A -O.
so um but so there's in the employer employee relationship how about a meeting how many of us have been to employee meetings that just droned on and on they were supposed to last 45 minutes and at the one hour mark certain people were leaving and they said they had a meeting and you wonder did they really have a meeting or did they just were they just you know using that to say so they could leave you didn't you didn't have the bravery to do it you thought maybe i should be Maybe I should make sure I set a meeting every week at the 1145 mark so I can leave the meeting exactly at 1145.
But how much better would it be if the person leading the meeting said, hey, we've got this much time.
They sent out an agenda ahead of time.
They asked everybody else if there were certain things they wanted to be on the agenda.
and they made a point of saying, here are the things that we want to make sure that we set some action items on before we finish the meeting.
Right. How much more productive would those meetings be?
So there's another example where you can apply this idea, time, agenda, outcome.
Practice it with your kids.
Practice it with your friends when you're planning on going out to have fun on Friday night.
Say, hey, how long are we planning on staying out tonight and And what do you guys want?
Well, here's what I'm thinking we'll do.
And let's not stand around for a half hour talking about where we're going to – let's make a decision in the next 10 minutes and get going.
Time, agenda, outcome.
I wish I would have listened to this episode so many years ago, Louis, because I go to bed early.
I hate wasting time.
What are we doing here?
Yes. This is great because all of this, because you've made it so practical for us because it's clear how it can apply in sales and negotiations.
Now we can see how this extrapolates to the day -to -day meetings and conversations we're having and then even in our personal life.
So this is extremely useful.
And I think with the time that we have left, of course, I want to give you an opportunity to tell the listeners again about the Sandler training.
But if there was one last piece of advice you would give the listeners when it comes to effectively setting expectations, this narrow niche within the negotiation process?
What would that last piece of advice be?
Yeah, it would be to be really clear in those expectations and about what, I mean, to think ahead of time about what yes looks like.
What is that next step?
And if the yes means we're going to make a sale, maybe what's the fallback?
Do you have a, if you have to negotiate what that outcome is, what's that going to look like?
It might be in your world that the negotiation is, well, if you can't make a decision today, then we should reschedule so that we can have the right people in the meeting so that we can make a decision.
But get really clear on the terms of that agreement and what yes looks like.
This is great. Louis, really appreciate it.
But before you go, let them know again about Sandler training and how they can learn more about that.
Thanks very much. So much. This concept of upfront contracts is the number one thing our client says changes their game.
But there's so many more things that Sandler talks about.
You know, we talk about not just the skills of selling, but also the mindset issues, the behavioral issues.
I mean, how do we execute on our plan?
I mentioned that we do have a course on negotiating.
We publish about four to six books a year and they're all right now focused on sales leadership.
So we're really focused on that.
We do have a book called Negotiating from the Inside Out, and we do have an online course on negotiating.
And if listeners want to learn more, they can go to Sandler .com and find their local Sandler trainer and reach out to them.
And so that's where to go.
Again, Sandler .com, S -A -N -D -L -E -R .com.
Perfect. Luis, really appreciate it, my friend.
Thanks for joining us.
Thanks for having me, Kwame.
me wait wait wait wait wait now before you sign off I have something to tell you that I've never told you before just kidding I've told you before but you should listen to it again I want you to know about negotiate anything premium imagine all of the things that you love about our traditional feed plus so much more I know you like our traditional feed because you're at the end of the episode and with negotiate anything premium you'll get more bonus content you've been asking asking for, more of the expert insights that you can't get anywhere else, and more exclusive behind the scenes access into
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