Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable. Hello, welcome to Roundtable where we serve up piping hot debates on the issues that Sizzou in China and beyond.
I'm your Holins. Imagine your dream city.
What would it look like?
Covered in green, smooth traffic, abundant recreational resources, what is it that you care the most?
Today, on Roundtable, let's compare your visions with the findings of the 2024 Urban Livedability Report.
Let's co-create the future.
For today's show, I'm joined by Lee E in the studio and Steve Hatharly on the line.
Now grab your virtual compass and follow us to the heart of the discussion.
Every city nurtures a unique temperament.
It could be bustling with traffic and people in a rush, or it might be a place where people leisurely chat over tea, or it could bust picturesque scenery where mountains and waters meet.
Choosing a city to live in is also a choice of lifestyle.
Communities as the concentrated carriers connecting people and cities also witness the vibrant flow of human spirit.
Every country and region has its own livable cities and the standards for what makes a city livable are not uniform.
What do young people aspire to in the livable city is what we're going to talk about today.
To start the conversation, let's take a look at several of these different rankings, different lists of livable cities, happy cities, beautiful cities, amazing cities, the best cities in the world.
There's no such ranking list there, but you get the gist.
So what are some of the lists?
Sure, I think we can refer to the survey of a better life in China.
This report was actually initiated in 2006 by CMG and the National Bureau of Statistics, China Post-Agrub Corporation and the National School of Development at Peking University.
And this survey has been conducted for 18 years, involving door-to-door questionnaires for 100,000 households across more than 150 cities and 300 counties each year.
This really the largest survey of its kind worldwide.
And on May 21st, the results for the 2023-2024 period were released.
And the results show that Guangzhou, Dalian, Hefei, Chengdu, Kunming, Ibing, Weihai, Chengzhou, Xiaoman, and Huzhou are voted as the top 10 ideal livable cities by the public.
I think when you look at the city list, I think these regions are not typically, I mean most of these cities are not typically regions that would stand out when you look at the economic prosperity.
However, it's really widely accepted or acknowledged that these cities are really livable.
For example, Guangzhou is really known for its beautiful environment and also delicious food.
It's a city located in southern China.
It's the capital of Guangdong Province near the Pearl River Delta.
And it's an important economic and cultural center in southern China.
And also Dalian is also one of my favorite cities here in China.
It's really situated in northeastern China's Lening Province.
It's a significant port city actually facing the Bo Hai scene in Yellow Sea.
It's also known for having a lot of beautiful plazas in the city and a very beautiful sea view.
And also, of course, Chengdu is already famous for its, I mean, rather slow life-paced and also a diversified food choices out there.
And Quming also known for its the pleasant climate for the whole year.
So these are some of the latest, the most livable city voted by the public here in China.
And also, we can look at another report conducted by China Youth Daily in collaboration with Polly Developments and Holdings.
It really focuses on what are the most livable or what are some ideal cities that young people would rather to live in.
And when you look at the latest, the city livability report in 2024, you can see that large cities are no longer the most popular choices among younger generations.
I mean, new first-tier cities such as Chengdu, Hangzhou, Xi'an, and Changshan have become the most favored with over 33% of people considering them as an ideal livable cities.
And also following these first-tier cities like Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, and Xinjiang are still chosen by about 30% of the respondents.
But meantime, the medium-sized and smaller-sized cities are also favored by young people nowadays.
Okay, so before diving into the actual topic of what are the most livable cities, let me ask you some things, Steve.
Do people outside of China so obsessed with making up lists of the best things to do or the best cities to live in or the best majors to choose?
Is it a Chinese thing or an international thing?
It is not a Chinese thing, exclusively.
It is an international thing.
People love ranking things from fifth to worst, one to ten, ten to one, whatever.
Movies, music, and even cities.
And it's an interesting topic to think about where people want to live.
You know, a couple of the cities that you mentioned I was trying to think, does anything compare to the city where I am in Korea right now, which is Busan?
And it sounds like Busan might be a combination of Chengdu and Guming because you've got the temperate weather here in Busan.
And you've also got the leisurely lifestyle next to the ocean.
It's kind of like a beach town.
And when people talk about comparing Busan to Seoul, of course, Seoul is the capital.
Those are the things that people talk about that they love in Busan.
It's a slower lifestyle.
The weather is really moderate in terms of wintertime temperatures, never gets too cold.
Wintertime temperatures never really gets too hot.
And those are two of the major factors when people from Busan talk about their city being a livable city.
Definitely, because when it comes to having a beach or being able to see or enjoy the sea in ocean, it's a very important factor for Chinese young people as well.
They talk about having a beach makes them feel that they're enjoying their life instead of just living their life.
So yes. Nobody swims here, which is weird.
They have the beach, but they don't really go swimming that often.
Swimming is another thing.
It's a different topic.
It's just kind of part of the aesthetic here.
People love it. Yeah, theville and the climate, which makes me feel like actually people have different needs and different priorities when it comes to choosing a city.
There are definitely some I'd like to call hardwares of a city, whether or not it's got really good business opportunities and environment or employment system as well for the young people to choose or start a career.
And whether or not they've got really good social welfare systems in terms of the resources of hospitals and schools.
And these are hardware factors.
But there are some software factors, in my opinion, whether or not the city is covered in green, whether or not the city is full of different museums and theaters and recreation activity resources.
And even whether or not the city is famous for being friendly and fun.
Take Lee's hometown, for example.
Tianjin is a really fun city.
It's due the degree that if you, for example, drive, I'm not really sure if it's driving or riding, I mean, cycling.
You would see signs on the roadside saying, please do not perform any crosstalk in the car because if you laugh too hard, you might lose focus on the road.
I love Tianjin. You know too much about Tianjin.
You do not see such signs in any other cities in China.
You'd see it in Tianjin because they're just simply too funny.
And if you like funny people, go there.
But if you're an ultimate introvert, you will feel miserable because every single stranger will say hi to you, make jokes with you, talk to you, and you're like, I don't know what to do.
So different cities are definitely different.
And I think with all these different lists, different rankings, it's fun to figure out like we said in the very beginning of the show, which temperament these city carries.
Yeah. And I think a survey result like this is a really dependable one as well.
Lee, you were talking about 150 cities, 300 counties each year.
And they've done it for, I think you said, 18 years in total.
So when we get a result like this, we can often with survey results, we have to take them with a grain of salt.
But this is something that's been done for a long time, asking a lot of people.
So we can really depend on the results of this.
But we also have to remember, I think, that, you know, with these results from China, and I'm not an expert on Chinese cities, but it seems to me that these cities are located at different parts of the country, all over different parts of the country.
They're different sizes, and it's really kind of an, it comes down to an individual thing when people are looking for what they want from a city.
Do they want a vibrant economic, busy place where they can go there and start their career, develop their career, make a lot of money?
Are they looking for something more relaxed, more fun, where you're told not to talk to each other in the car?
What was that because you'll miss the opportunity?
Yeah. Can I say there are like shy people intinging as well?
I don't believe you. But this is real, I'm really curious to know what the results of this survey were for sure.
I think you both mentioned some really good points here is that when we talk about livable cities, people usually have a general picture of what kind of vibe is this city having, especially for say, tinging, you mentioned, maybe people think it's really like hilarious or funny place to live in, and you can be surrounded by funny people as well.
And also when mentioning say Chengdu, people might think about having a cup of tea on the streets and so that you can have a rather slow life place.
But I think all you all, when you especially talking about what kind of ideal place is that young people would love to live in, I think people still need to consider some pragmatic factors like you mentioned whether there are enough job opportunities and you also want to get some very good educational medical resources.
So all of these mean that at least this city need to have some pillar industry to support the region to develop and sustain and prosper.
So that's also why some people are also talking about we, of course, we want some better resources and we want to enjoy a better environment.
But meantime, we also want work life balance.
So I think that's something new or something that people are increasingly talking about because when you look at this survey, actually the attractiveness of new first-tier cities is really not on par with first-tier cities, making them preferred choices for over 30% of respondents.
And so people, they are striving for a better life, still they are seeking for a balance between activity and any relaxation.
They also increasingly care about the quality of life, what kind of life I can live in the city.
So that's also making some new first-tier cities or emerging cities equally appealing.
I think that's really fun observation because you can also look into the changing mentality of young people here.
Yes, I made fun of people making lists, but yeah, I like ranking as well.
I like 1 to 10 to 1 myself.
Because through these different lists, you get to see different sides of the cities.
We talked about children-friendly cities previously.
What are some cities that are best for elderly care?
What are some cities that are friendly to young people that would cultivate youth development?
We didn't actually had a chance to talk about an introvert city or extrovert city, but definitely Tindin is an extrovert city for sure, but there can be some introvert cities.
I definitely believe there are places for me to live in.
And with all these different labels and different tax, we're not trying to generalize or put these labels on any cities.
On the contrary, what we're trying to do is to learn about different traits and different facets of different cities through different lists.
For example, the latest results, survey results, and ranking we're looking at today showcases the preferences of the young people of today.
For example, if you take a closer look, there are certain factors and details that young people are generally putting more emphasis on.
For example, there's this one very detailed factor that is a lot of young people said they would rather live in the same city with their parents.
Not in the same apartment, maybe not even in the same building, but perhaps in the same city or in the same residential community.
The kind of distance that if I want to, I can suddenly drop by to my parents' house and have meal and do not even wash dishes.
But if I don't want to, I can still have my own apartment and keep my privacy, that kind of distance.
Yeah, I think there's a very interesting term describing this kind of distance.
You are mentioning it's called a bowl of soup distance and also known as like warm soup proximity.
Basically, meaning that the locations where you and your parents leave are close enough to care for each other, but with enough space for privacy.
Meaning that maybe you live in the same neighborhood and your parents could be able to send you a bowl of hot soup before it gets cold to be delivered into your apartment.
I think that's something very interesting because in traditional conception, when we talk about the multi-generational relationship, people usually tend to prefer to live with their parents in the same residential building.
We consider it as a sign of paying, say, filio-piety to really care your parents and showing respect and you live in the big same family and your parents tend to be the rather big leader of this big family.
But I think it's really changing nowadays.
People do want to have proper distance from their parents.
Well, the parents want that too.
Yeah, exactly. They also want to live independently.
They also want their own privacy space and which is not disturbed by their bothering sons and daughters.
That's quite interesting because I also found quite similar situation in Japan.
They also have a special term for that called kinkyo, meaning that parents and the children who live in the same neighborhood.
It's kind of like a very similar changing mentality shared by younger generations globally, I guess.
They did a survey here in Korea and they asked young people about living in the same city with their parents and also living together with their parents.
Those traditionally a long time ago, people would live with their parents in Korea until they got married.
Anyway, they asked them this question and 80% of the people said that they hope to live in the same city as their parents.
So they want to live in the same city, 80%.
40%. I found this choice of words so funny.
40% willing to live with their parents.
Yeah. I guess if I have to.
So yeah, it's a trend in China.
It's a trend in Korea. People still want to be close to their family, but you don't want to be living on top of your family members.
Yes. So that's one thing.
And then, some things also changing is the mentality of whether or not you would purchase an apartment or rent an apartment and apparently renting as a means of settling down is being embraced by more people.
From the research results, it is foreseeable that the real estate market is shifting towards a scenario of both renting and purchasing are acceptable.
Instead of living in a small apartment of their own, they would rather rent a relatively bigger one or comfortable one that they can actually enjoy life.
And when it comes to the factors of the apartment, many people suggest that a very, very comfortable bed is the first priority, then they also want a balcony where they can enjoy a little bit of sunlight and of course smart household devices, appliances are also very important to young people nowadays.
So I see young people are enjoying life.
They're smart people knowing the importance of being able to pamper themselves a little bit.
Of course, I think for younger generations, most of them don't actually experience a time period of material scarcity.
It's no longer the case for younger generations.
I think they don't already have this conception that I need to have my own shelter.
Actually I do have my own shelter in my hometown.
So I just want to choose ideal place to live in so that I can, you know, rather enhance my living standards.
And they no longer consider like buying property as a sign of achieving financial independence.
I think they can also accept of spending quite expensive rent to rent a good quality apartment so that they can somehow like build their own life in this apartment.
I think basically it reflects how young people are being so open minded when it comes to what kind of living environments they are choosing as long as they're having fun, as long as they find themselves quite comfortable.
They are sort of abandon quite a lot of criteria that used to restraining people traditionally.
I think so many different things are connected, right?
So if young people now are looking at living alone perhaps at an earlier age where typically in the past you might find the average marriage age to be, I don't know, 28, 29, 30, 31 years old.
And that's true for many different countries around the world.
But now young people don't want to get married as much as they used to before.
But here's my point. If that's the case and people aren't getting married as much as they used to, then the housing market has to reflect that because you're going to have a lot more people, a lot more single person households.
And that means a lot more renting, right?
So people still have standards.
They still have things that they want in desire.
You know, you talk about a patio and a smart fridge or whatever.
But the housing market has to reflect what's happening in society as well.
It's so fascinating. It's all a spider web, isn't it?
Everything is connected.
And you can see reflections on that in the housing market.
You can see reflections on that in the food industry.
You can see it everywhere, the changing trends.
I totally agree with you.
And I think it's a good point that it's all a spider net in the sense that actually city planners need to talk about it and you to think about it because if you have an apartment, it's much harder for you to switch places to live.
Yet, if you rent, you can definitely choose the place you prefer.
And according to the survey, we see that a lot of young people attach strong importance in having a 24 hour convenience store around the residential community.
If it's something they value so much, they might even move because of this factor.
And alongside that, you also see they want the residential community to have good security services, to have a even a little garden in the community area so that they can spend some leisure time within their walking distance.
And these are all very important factors and indicators for city planners to think about.
And with that being said, I actually am curious because if you think about the priorities or the kind of focus that we had 10 years ago or even 20 years ago, actually, it was not in this direction.
We were thinking about building skyscrapers, building this really magnificent and big, beast public square in a city, making the city more, quote unquote, international and grand.
But with that shift, changing towards make it more elegant, more livable, make it more friendly and also convenient for the residents in the city, we're kind of looking at this changing in direction.
And that leads to the question of whether or not we should be so obsessed in defining or perfecting a city in the meticulously planning and designing and comprehensively design the future of the city kind of way.
Or should we just go with a flow and make small changes and see what people's need is for the current situation and make little tweaks instead of making bigger changes or major plannings?
I think my answer would be cities are quite fluid, meaning that trends come and trends go, but you have to keep an eye on the demographics of the people that are living in your city, you have to know what percentage of your city population is single person households versus family households.
If you have a larger percentage of single person households, i.e.
young people, then you have to conduct surveys and ask them what they want for their communities and what they want now for their community might not be what they want in 15 years time.
So you have to keep asking these questions and listen to the answers and then city planners, urban planners kind of make changes as they go.
Yeah, sort of the same answer here.
I think city planning is quite a dynamic process.
I still remember in my hometown city, Tangine, I visited like a city planning museum when I was like 10 years old and inside the museum there were like a lot of displays and exhibitions telling how local city operators they were trying to expand the city.
I mean, try to build as many skyscrapers as possible and try to renovate all the buildings out there to make them look like quite luxurious and new and fresh.
But now I think city planners must have different approach or method to provide a better city planning for residents out there.
So I think it's all about whether you put the needs of your residents as the core.
I think that's also in a line with the definition of livable or successful city because when you look at the needs of people in different cities, basically they care not only about the physical or spatial environment but also about the social and economic needs and also security, infrastructure, efficiency and also you got to make your city have more connection with its local or natural environment.
So basically we're talking about how to put the needs of your citizens at the forefront of all its planning activities.
Definitely, I think knowing the city, knowing the demographic of the city is the first thing the city planners should do and it's not a once for all job.
You have to do it constantly all the time.
And in the meantime, knowing your city in the sense that which embodiment, which endowment the city has is also quite important.
Now in the beginning of the discussion, we talked about having different labels for different cities.
If your city is a very relaxed city or very beautiful city or four seasons are all as nice as spring kind of city or a very funny city.
Making these labels actually help the cities to be put on the map be known by more people.
So one day are just fresh out of school trying to figure out which city to set to down.
They would have all these tiny little tags in their mind that they can think of and then they can do more research and decide whether or not it is the city that they want to go.
