Welcome to this masterclass edition of Negotiate Anything.
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With over 1700 episodes featuring some of the world's brightest minds, we've carefully curated a couple of powerful conversations for you.
What makes this so special is that you'll hear how different experts from different industries approach the same challenge in their own unique ways.
Our goal is to give you multiple perspectives so you can build your own unique style.
Success doesn't look the same for everyone.
And in this masterclass, you'll see exactly why.
Let's dive in.
Shaheen, thanks for joining us today.
Thanks for having me on Kwame.
It is a pleasure to have you, my friend and listeners.
I'm excited.
I mean, Shaheen and I have been vibing for the last half an hour.
So I'm just glad we're able to get to this podcast interview.
So Shaheen, how about you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Yeah, absolutely.
So my name is Shaheen Shan.
I am a serial entrepreneur.
Started when I was in my teens, created a company that grew to over a billion dollars in revenue before I reached the age of 20.
I've since invented pretty much all the technology that now you see is digital vaporization and vapes.
I was early on in the Amazon stage and being an Amazon FBA seller in roughly started around 2008 2009 doing Amazon FBA.
I now teach people how to create predictable recurring revenue streams. on the Amazon platform.
Shout out to that.
So if you want to reach out to me, I'll share my email with everybody.
Additionally, I now run a podcasting agency called Podcast Cola, where we get people booked on great shows just like this one.
Fantastic.
Shaheen, one thing I really admire about you is as an entrepreneur.
You have had success in so many different industries.
In this episode.
What I want to do is essentially do an exploration of your biography and how negotiation and difficult conversations played a role in that.
So for the listeners who have been here for a while, they know we define negotiation as any time you're having a conversation and somebody in the conversation wants something.
So every element of life, every relationship, every interaction could be viewed through the lens of negotiation.
And I think one thing that would be helpful is not just understanding the business side of your background, but also the personal side, because I think that gives us a lot more of a deeper understanding of who you are as a person too.
Yeah, it's interesting.
You know, it makes me think about Bruce Lee.
So move to the United States in the early 1980s, right just at the tail end of the 1970s, early 1980s.
Came here as a kid and very quickly I realized that I was getting my butt beat every single day at school.
So I had to become really scrappy and learn a fight because it was survival in Los Angeles.
And I learned very quickly that I needed to gain some skill sets.
So I got a book called Tao of Jeet Kune Do by Bruce Lee.
It was put together by this guy, Dan Inosanto, who was his partner at the time.
Now, In the book, Bruce Lee, this book was put together after Bruce Lee's death.
And it's all his notes, right, that they gathered, they put together in a book and they put it out.
It was never intended to be a book, but they made it into a book.
And in there Bruce talks about when I didn't know how to fight.
A punch was just a punch and a kick was just a kick.
And then I learned how to fight.
A punch was no longer a punch, and a kick was no longer a kick.
And I'm probably butchering the exact quote, but you get the spirit of it.
And then when I achieved mastery, a punch was just a punch, and a kick was just a kick.
And I thought to myself, wow.
That's really the key to what negotiating is.
When we don't know like.
I have a 10-year-old boy And, believe me, I fear for you if I put him in the room with you to negotiate anything, because he is a master.
And at 10 he's already started watching videos and reading on negotiation, and he is a master manipulator of humans.
He doesn't really know what he's doing, but he knows exactly what he's doing.
And I feel like that was my process in learning negotiation.
One of my first mentors told me, he said, look, take a look around you.
And this was at a time when I was broke and sleeping on the beach.
He said, every single thing you see around you was sold from one person to another person.
And if you wanna learn to be successful, you gotta understand how to negotiate and you gotta understand how to sell.
Very similar concepts, selling is negotiating and negotiating is selling in my opinion.
So I feel that ultimately, We learn.
And you should do that.
I think everyone should do that, right?
You got to learn all the tactics and everything you need to do to become a good negotiator.
But at the end of the day it comes back to kind of forgetting all of that and just being a person and being able to have genuine communication with another human being.
But you approach that from a place of mastery and influence rather than from a beginner's mindset, which ultimately is a beginner's mindset right.
Absolutely.
I started to smile immediately Shaheen, once you started quoting the master Bruce Lee, because I quote him in my presentations all the time.
So many great quotes.
And I love this mindset that we're bringing to this.
Because really, what we're recognizing is that yes, of course we want to achieve mastery in this skill of negotiation and sales.
There are skills attached to that.
But there's also a powerful mindset that goes along with it.
Because we want to practice, we want to prepare, we want to develop our skills, we want to be ready for the conversation.
But then it's almost like we have to have the approach of Taoism, where we're saying okay, we're going to get to that point of trying not to try where we achieve ue and we can flow in the moment.
And it's hard to do that, but you can only do that through mastery.
For you.
I think one of the things that's most interesting to me is because we've seen you achieve at the highest levels of business.
And from your beginnings.
I think if people are going to look at you at the time let's say when you were sleeping on the beach they wouldn't say you know Shaheen, I bet he's going to make a company.
That's a billion dollars in revenue.
But what are some of those through lines from your time there?
Before you came to the States, to your time building the company, to now as a very successful entrepreneur.
What are some of those through lines in your approach to human interaction that you've carried throughout your life and career?
Yeah, okay.
So let's talk about that.
I'm fascinated by that topic.
And I'll tell you, I actually learned this through the lens of martial arts.
So I trained Brazilian jiu-jitsu.
I try to get better at it every day.
I'm still very much so beginner, even though I've been doing it for eight years now, roughly.
And I realize that every move really is a negotiation.
And when you sit there, it's like, surfing by reading, right?
You can read all the great techniques in martial arts, like jujitsu.
You could read about them.
You could watch the YouTube videos.
Even somebody could explain it to you.
But here's the thing. there's another human against you on the mat.
And you can find a million probabilities of what that person may or may not do.
A million probabilities of if you're tired, if they're tired, if it's hot, if it's cool, if the conditions are different, if you've got less space to move, more space to move, if the guy's kimono is too tight, if yours is too loose.
Like there's so many different factors.
Those are probably bad examples, but so many different factors that there's no accounting for what the other guy is going to do.
So, while we can be prepared and we can have our tools, which you have to have, you need to have all the tools.
If you're, the game is showing up with presence.
And it's from the get-go in a negotiation, and I think martial arts are very much the same.
Where are you coming from before anybody opens their mouth, before anybody sends an email, before anybody talks?
It's probably more powerful than any tactic then you can implement and execute on.
Because if you're coming from a place of high value and high status is very different.
So I'll give you an example in your world of business and conflict resolution and those types of things.
So if you're like hey, I'm going to put a junior intern on the call to try to see if they can solve this before I come on, how are the people in that negotiation going to react to the junior intern?
Now, assume the junior intern has learned from you and they have all of your tactics.
They have every tool you have in your toolbox.
Then you come on.
Now you're Kwame the man.
You're the CEO.
People are going to be acting differently.
And it's going to be more predictable and easier to resolve.
Another example would be in a sales situation.
Oftentimes now, when I sell, whatever it is a high-ticket product or service or anything else that I'm doing By the time people have been qualified and they come to me I'm at a position of status because they're like oh, I had to go through two or three people to get to this guy.
He must be important.
So my role is just to requalify them and allow them to sell me on having them as part of my service or my product.
And that's really the most powerful way to sell.
Now, I don't need any of the tactics.
In fact, I could use reverse tactics when I'm doing that.
I could say, Kwame, I'm delighted to have you on this call.
I hope I can provide some value to you.
If I can't, I'm happy to send you off to somebody else who can.
I actually have a list of five other agencies that I think would be great for you if we don't work out.
What are you thinking, Kwame, when I tell you that?
I'm gonna tell you, Kwame, thank you for taking this call with me.
I know it looks like you qualified.
I'd love to talk to you about this.
And if this doesn't work out, I've already got a list established of five other agencies and consultancies that I think may be a better fit for you if we don't work out.
Let me go ahead and ask you a few questions to see if you might be a fit, but if you're not, I'm happy to send you to those other agencies.
How are you feeling right now?
I just think I lost leverage because this man has options and he doesn't need me.
Yes, true.
But also now you're in a position where you're selling me on you.
You're like, no, Shaheen, I think I'd be perfect for your agency.
And this is why I think it's good.
And then I ask you questions where I allow you to qualify yourself.
And at the end, I say, cool, man.
So how do you want to proceed?
And you're like, well, I think I'm ready, right?
If you don't come to that conclusion, then I've been a poor decision architect, right?
My job is to become an architect of decisions so that, when you walk into the path, it's very clear for you which direction to go and where you end up.
And sales is like that and negotiation is like that.
In fact, interpersonal relationships are very similar, even even dating for the guys.
I mean, I'm happily married for a number of years but you know, in the dating days that's exactly what you want to do.
The hard way is to go out there and to bring people to what it is that you're doing.
The easy way is to set yourself up where they come to you.
And when they come to you, that decision process is already laid out for them and they believe that it's their idea.
That's masterful negotiation.
When the customer thinks it's their idea to buy, when the other side thinks it's their idea to settle.
That's how you win.
Jahin, there's so much brilliance in what you said.
And let me go ahead and first of all give a shout out to I know you're good friends with Chris Voss.
That sounded like a very Vossian maneuver, getting the other side to essentially qualify themselves.
Just say, hey, why did I choose you?
That's powerful because then they start selling you to themselves, which is incredibly powerful.
And I love the fact that we brought up status and being high value in this too.
That's something that I think has been one of the biggest areas of malpractice in the negotiation industry not bringing in the psychology of status into these discussions and strategic approaches soon enough.
Because you're absolutely right.
You can have the same exact situation.
Swap the person and a lower status person would have a less of an impact compared to a higher status person in the exact same situation, even if they go about it the exact same way.
And I remember one time and I know this is a controversial figure given the time, but I think it stands to reason on this point.
People sometimes ask me to analyze Art of the Deal, Donald Trump's book and they say okay well, it wasn't very heavy on strategy.
What do you think about it?
And I said, For him, it works because he's Donald Trump.
He doesn't need to be as technical as somebody else in that situation.
So they're like, look at this.
This would never work.
It does work. for him.
And so that's why it's so important for us to analyze this in a more psychologically sound type of way.
When you incorporate being somebody of high value and you incorporate the status in the calculation of the preparation and the strategy that you use, you recognize that the It's not necessarily that there is a specific way to negotiate.
It's about recognizing that you need to have the appropriate skills.
Yes, for sure.
But you also have the ability to discern which skills are required for which situation.
And that might be different for different people in the same communication, too.
Yeah, it's true.
Look, I tell people this all the time.
You start with competency.
There's a whole lot of people hanging around that don't have competency.
Competency leads to confidence.
So in the example of Brazilian jiu-jitsu, which is a grappling guard, you need to know the tools.
You need to know your basics.
You need to know your fundamentals.
So when you get on the mat, you know what to do.
From that point on, Let's wait and see what the other guy is bringing.
What's he doing?
Is he super aggressive and we need to calm him down?
Is he super calm and we need to just be faster and move around him?
Or is he a cooperative type player, where he's going to feed into us and we're going to feed into him and it's more like a win-win play?
So you won't know until you get on the mat.
But if you get on the mat and you don't have competency, then you're not going to have confidence.
And that's going to be a disaster.
So I teach people this in my Amazon course all the time.
I tell people, hey, you want to sell on Amazon.
You want to create these recurring revenue streams.
No problem.
But you need to have the basics, the fundamentals down.
And then we go in there.
Let's see what Amazon's going to throw at us.
There's no calculation for what one of these big platforms will throw at you.
But if you're prepared, you will have the confidence to know that there is a process that you can follow.
Now, you might have to, in the moment, be able to make moves and make quick decisions.
And that's the other part is how quickly can you make decisions and what is your decision-making process?
Jeff Bezos, for example now that we're talking about Amazon has an amazing decision-making process.
And there's a couple podcast interviews with him out there where he talks about his decision-making process.
And it's fascinating coming from the richest man on earth or the richest known man on earth.
And he talks about decisions that have low stakes can be made quickly.
Decisions that are high stakes and unchangeable he makes slowly.
And that's his framework.
That's his entire framework for stuff.
And he might not make a decision if he knows it's going to change the entire trajectory of his life, or the life of his company or his employees, for a very long time, until he's sure he's looked at all the angles.
But a decision that's easily revertible, a decision that may have a good upside may not have much downside.
He makes those quickly.
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So one of the common factors that I've seen in successful negotiators and successful people in business in general is their ability to make decisions quickly when it's low stakes.
And you'll notice this.
I'm sure you got buddies like this.
I got buddies like that, too, where we go out to eat.
What do you have in chicken or steak?
Done.
Like that decision is made before they step into the restaurant.
And then you've got other people like, oh, I don't know.
Like, oh, what should I get?
Get him first and then come back to me.
And they look at the.
So those are likely the people that are less successful.
Oh, there's so much to explore here.
But let me tell you a story.
I want to go back to BJJ because I love this as a conduit for conveying this message, too.
So I am I'm a proud white belt.
BJJ.
I've been to a few classes.
It's so much fun.
And so I do powerlifting, but I also love watching the UFC.
I was at Francis's last title defense, sitting ringside in Anaheim.
So I love the UFC.
Always been watching.
So I can talk like I know about it, but I have not personally done it very often.
So I remember I
Shaheen and I looked at the everybody else in the class.
I was like I'm bigger than everybody I can.
I don't know what I'm doing, but I could.
At least my physicality could hang right.
And I went in there and it was just a mixtape of me being tapped out by smaller men.
Shaheen, it was the most humbling experience of my life.
I'm sitting here on the mat feeling like I'm drowning in open air.
And as this soccer dad from the suburbs is mauling me, he's like, calm down, calm your body.
I'm like, sir, you're murdering me.
How can I calm down here?
Right?
And I think it's so important to tie this to the confidence piece, because I think a lot of times people don't fully understand what competence means in these tough conversations because they think oh, I'm intelligent.
I'm book smart.
I understand the industry and everything like that.
And that matters.
But Do you have competence in the skill set of negotiation, sales, and communication?
Those are two different things.
So for me coming in, yes, I was physically strong in that it wasn't a detriment.
It could help, but I didn't have the skill set necessary to actually be confident on the mat.
I think people need to really understand what that is.
Yes, it's important to understand the topic of conversation and the industry that you're in, but understanding the mechanics of communication and negotiation, that's a different thing.
Totally, totally.
It's very true.
And I don't think there's ever been a time where people have been less competent.
I have to say that.
And I'm not a hater.
I'm very optimistic as a human being.
And I look at the world and I'm very optimistic.
And I think we've got fewer people with higher levels of competency.
But when you travel it's hard to see the people actually give a.
You know what about stuff?
Like you go to Europe and you go to a restaurant and like the guy is a waiter there.
That's what the guy does.
He's not a waiter slash this slash that.
There's no slashers.
That's what he does, and he loves it.
He loves that Parmigiano-Reggiano and he's going to tell you all about it and he's going to make sure he brings it to you with the correct sauce and the correct thing.
And at the end of that that gives him a feeling of accomplishment because he is hyper confident at the thing that he does.
And that's really lacking now.
And I tell people this all the time.
I think 98% of the game now for anything is showing up.
Even in your example of Brazilian jiu-jitsu, you did more than 98% of the people, dude.
You showed up.
Imagine how many guys never hit the mat in the first place.
Those are the ones that are not winning.
It's the guys that come out and try it.
I tell young people this all the time right you have a hundred percent chance of failure if you don't try.
I tell people this on amazon all the time right, like The majority of people are going to fail.
I tell people this who are interested in my online course all the time and my coaching all the time.
I say higher likelihood that you're going to fail than you're going to succeed.
But one thing I can tell you, you have 100% chance of failure if you never try.
Yep.
And most people don't.
It's one of those things that's easy to understand, but very difficult to put into practice.
And to your point about low competence, I realize, when we come into this time where we have so much access to the Internet, so much access to information, we recognize yes, we are in the information age, but nobody calls it the wisdom age.
We might have smartphones, but we don't call them wise phones.
And the thing is, that competence takes time to develop.
It takes time and dedicated practice and focus.
And like you said, in other parts of the world, there are no slashers.
This is what I do, and I go deep on that.
And I think there are so many people who have become generalists in a sense where not in an intentional sense, because sometimes people are intentional generalists as part of a cohesive strategy.
That's a different thing.
That's a very good thing.
But I think there are a lot of people who think that they have deep knowledge in a lot of things, but what they really do, what they really have, is shallow knowledge on a lot of different things.
They read an article.
They saw a tweet or a post or something like that.
And now they think they're informed, but they're not.
And then they overestimate what they can do.
And then they're surprised by the amount of difficulty they run into.
So even if they do take that step and try which most of them don't Then they feel that resistance and they say you know what?
This isn't for me.
Negotiation isn't for me.
I tried.
I tried to negotiate.
It didn't work out well for me.
That resilience to the depth of knowledge, but also the resilience to stick to it is lost.
Yeah, that's a little bit Dunning-Kruger, right?
You know the Dunning-Kruger effect, where people know just enough about a topic to feel like they're experts until they realize that
They really know little about it and then it's too late.
So that sounds like exactly what you're describing, but it's the same on Amazon, right?
People go, oh, I'm going to try to sell on Amazon.
I'm going to start an Amazon company.
And then they go, oh, yeah, that didn't work for me.
And I go, dude, I'm starting seven, eight figure companies all the time, selling them for seven, eight figures exits.
I've got friends that have done that.
I've got students that are doing that stuff, making millions of dollars selling on Amazon.
What separates them from you?
And it's exactly what you're saying.
Also, what's.
An epidemic now, and it really is an epidemic, is that people just don't give a you-know-what.
I'm trying not to curse on this podcast.
I told my wife I wouldn't curse, so I'm not going to curse.
But people just don't care in general.
And it's shocking to me how little...
People actually care.
You have a whole generation, the last generation, that has kind of been disenfranchised, right?
They can't buy a house.
There's no hope of them ever buying a house.
Moving up the social ladder, the socioeconomic ladder is even further out of their reach.
You know, male female dynamics have changed dramatically.
So they're kind of like looking at their parents generation and going, man, you know what?
Like, why even try?
So they get.
You know, I think the term is apathetic.
Maybe I'm wrong, but.
They kind of get that way.
And then you have a whole population of people that just don't care.
I think the difference with people like you and myself and I can tell this from you is that we actually care about stuff.
And I've never been one to chase money.
I've made...
Hundreds of millions of dollars in my life.
Never been one to chase money.
I get involved in things because I actually care about that stuff and I'm interested.
And I did that when I was dead broke, sleeping on the beach.
And I do that to this very day.
I do things because I'm fascinated by those things because I actually care.
And that's one of the amazing things, Kwame when you go around life and you find somebody that actually cares about something.
Like, I don't care about passion.
That's just something that people tell people, because they don't want to tell them that they're smarter than they are.
So they say, oh, you know, how did you become rich?
They go, well, I'm very passionate.
Oh, cool.
They don't want to tell them, hey, I got rich because I'm smarter than you.
Right.
Not that I'm smarter than anybody, but most of the guys out there.
If you ask like a Mark Zuckerberg or an Elon Musk, you go hey, how did you do it?
They're not going to be like, well, dude, I am considerably smarter than you, you and you.
Right.
Because they'll look like, you know, what's.
So they say, oh, you know what?
Like, yeah, it's passion.
It's passion.
People will buy that.
I don't think it's that.
But I think you actually have to care.
Like, what do you care about?
Like, what do you stand for?
Right.
What's what's important to you?
And it's like that.
You smell that on people.
That comes back to our whole talk full circle to what we're talking about in negotiation.
Does this person actually care?
Or are they just following the rule?
Are they painting by colors?
They're just thinking about something else while they're talking to you.
And that's the difference.
That's the difference between a master negotiator or someone who's a master in martial arts, who's there on the mat, who's fully engaged.
There's nothing else going on but you and the other person.
That's it.
Nothing else going on.
Are they thinking about their text, or where they're going to go for lunch, or like all those things matter.
And that's why.
Yeah.
It's powerful.
And it's funny.
I was laughing as you were talking because I was like it seems like this man has been reading my journal, because you're saying the things that I've been ranting about silently to myself in my journal for the longest time.
And when I think about the apathy that a facing, a lot of times I think it comes down to belief.
They just do not believe that even if they tried, they could succeed.
And when I think about what it takes to overcome that, I look at that through the lens of internal negotiation.
So what is it that somebody can do, as they're having that conversation with themselves, to overcome that apathy?
And I think you're a Because of where you came from to where you are now.
And so, when you were fighting those potential internal demons about whether or not you could do what you wanted to do, could you achieve that dream.
What did that internal dialogue sound like for you?
Oh, I have plenty of external dialogue from other people telling me that I couldn't do it, which drove me very strongly.
So, look, I came to this country, like I said, in the early 80s, late 70s.
And I come from an Iranian background, Iranian Jewish background.
And we were exposed to a lot of hate in this country.
And there was a lot of like racism.
There was a lot of you know, like I said, I had my butt beat every single day. in school.
And then when I left, I left home at 15 and went out like dropped out of school, went out there to find my fame and fortune.
You can only imagine what people would tell me.
And I had ideas.
I read books.
I think I had pretty good ideas.
And most people would tell me, like, you're out of your mind.
I had people literally have me escorted out of places.
And Every single one of those drove me to greater success, and I'm so grateful to those people.
I'm grateful to the bosses that abused me in the little crummy jobs that I had.
I'm grateful to every person who told me that I'm never going to make it.
Because when I'm sitting in that Ferrari driving down Pacific Coast Highway with the wind blowing through my hair, I had hair back then.
I just thinking to myself, man, I did it.
I've proven them wrong.
I got nothing else to do.
Right.
I got nothing else to prove.
Like this is one of the most incredible things about the country that we live in.
I don't think you have opportunities like that in a lot of other countries, but that is what America was built on.
And ultimately, that's why my parents brought me to America to be able to have that opportunity.
We've all been there.
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Incredible.
And I love this for so many reasons, but it's a true American story.
And then I share a similar story.
My family, I'm a child of immigrants too, first generation Caribbean American.
There are so many opportunities.
If you're willing to kind of step up and try, that's the key.
And there will be failures.
There will be hardship.
You just have to keep on pushing.
And when you think about for you in sales, in negotiation, in all of the different industries you've been in, from car sales to podcasting, to health and wellness, everything.
What would you say are some of the core skills that you've been able to utilize consistently throughout each of those elements of your life?
I think it's like Professor Cialdini writes in his book, Influence.
Great book.
If you guys haven't read it, I'd recommend.
I know you've read it, Kwame.
But.
The most important one, I think, ultimately is authority.
And that goes back to what we're talking about, right?
Authority, social proof, likability.
All these things are important.
And, at the end of the day, what it comes down to is being an authentic human being that can relate to other people.
The details you can learn, right?
Technical details you can learn.
ChatGPT now is getting pretty good at technical details.
So technical details we can hammer out.
Math we can hammer out.
Figuring out what's between 5 million and 10 million, like it's not difficult for us to figure out what's there and like what's technically fair.
The thing that people get paid for, particularly in the negotiation space?
Are you an authentic human?
Can you bring two or more people together and have them come to terms?
And that comes down to likeability.
It comes down to authority.
It comes down to trust.
And those are the key factors.
And never underestimate likeability, right?
We like to buy from people who like us.
And how do you make somebody like you is by being like them, right?
How good are you at building rapport?
And that comes down to who you are and what we're talking about in the beginning.
I mean, I'm giving a really high level, right?
I can sit down and go over negotiating tactics, and I teach people all the time.
You got white hat tactics, gray hat tactics, and black hat tactics.
Depends what kind of war you're in, right?
Sun Tzu article war right, what's what's the terrain and how do we win?
Right, and you got to map the terrain.
You got to know strategy, you got to know tactics and you got to be able to execute on those tactics.
Right, So what are we trying to achieve?
What's our strategy that we're going to achieve it with?
And then what are the tactics we're going to implement and execute to achieve our objectives?
Well, ultimately, all of it comes down to interpersonal relationship.
Well, my first mentor taught me look around you, every single thing, from the mic that you have to the nice pocket square that you have in your nice Italian tailored suit somebody sold to you.
And I bet you, you didn't dislike that person.
Even if it's a platform, even if you buy I know you didn't buy that on Amazon, but even if we're buying stuff on Amazon or if we're buying stuff online, you're going to like that platform.
You got to like the people who you're dealing with because we like to.
It's just biological.
We like to buy from people who are like us and who we like.
Period.
And there is so much to explore, Shaheen.
I could talk to you forever on this.
And I love the fact that we are talking about like authority, social proof, likability.
These are all things that we can do.
These are things that are accessible to everybody.
And what I really appreciate about this episode is that you could have, like you said, you could have gone really deep into technical tactics and strategies and everything.
And what I take away from this and what I've experienced in my own life too is that in the vast majority of negotiations, it's not determined by the depth and complication of the tactics or strategies that you use.
If you can pay attention to social proof of authority, likability building, rapport building trust, communicating authentically, that gets you through the majority of these negotiations, and it goes all the way back to one of the things that you said at the beginning that is so powerful.
One of the things that holds people back is that they just don't try.
They just don't take that step and try.
So this is incredible, Shaheen.
I really appreciate you joining us.
There's so many different things that you do.
But before you go, I want to give you an opportunity to let the listeners know just how they can get in touch with you and what's the best way to work with you too.
Let's do it.
I'm ready.
All right.
So if you are interested, we'll start with this and being on great shows like this one to get your message out, to double or triple your income by using the power of podcasting.
Check out podcastcola.com.
Get on there.
Book a call with one of our strategists.
You might get me and happy to talk to you about how you guesting on podcasts can help double or triple your income by getting you out there and making you an authority in the marketplace.
The second thing that i have going if you're interested in my business coaching program for amazon and to become an amazon seller, to create a company and to create predictable recurring revenue streams, go ahead and reach out to me directly.
I'm going to share my email with you.
It's going to be darkzess at gmail.com.
That is my direct email.
Make sure to mention the show, negotiate anything or Kwame Christian in the subject headline.
So I know to thank Kwame for you.
And I'm happy to get on a call with you if you go ahead and book through there.
And alternatively, my book in addition to is out now, called Billion How I Became King of the Thrill Pill Cult on Amazon.
You can get it on Audible.
There's a great audio book if you don't like reading like many of us do or don't have time to read.
The Audible book is awesome, and it goes through my entire journey.
There's a great foreword by Chris Voss and the FBI negotiator.
And the entire book talks about my journey, going from sleeping on the beach to creating a billion dollar company.
A lot of great tactics in there, like the ones we talked about.
And you can check me out, ShaheenShayan.com.
And again, podcast. gascola.com.
My Amazon coaching program is a small, dedicated program.
Reach out to me directly, d-a-r-k-z-e-s-s at gmail.com.
And the book, Billion, How I Became King of the Theropel Cult.
Shaheen, thank you so much for joining us.
Really appreciate it.
Good to see you, Kwame.
Thanks again.
You've just heard one powerful perspective and now we're moving on to the next, a fresh voice with a new angle on the same challenge, so you can keep expanding your skills.
Let's dive in.
Andy, thanks for joining us today.
Hey, thanks for having me, Kwame.
I appreciate it.
This is a crazy moment from first year in the podcast years ago at this point to now being on it.
It's absolutely insane.
This is great.
And listeners, Andy has a great story just in general.
But I think what would be cool is starting off by just sharing that part of the journey how you found the podcast and then where you are now, because there is a lot to explore.
Yeah.
So my area of expertise is. starts out in sales.
So I was a salesperson at Comcast, got developed into a sales leader there, and I needed some material one day for one of my training sessions with my team to help improve our numbers.
And I just happened to come across your podcast, the Negotiate Anything podcast.
And I heard this and I said I've never heard anything like this before, you know, because everything was raw raw, raw.
You're the first person I ever heard who made negotiation sound like a conversation.
That was really my first experience with that.
Because you see, like some of my favorite movies of all time, you're like where the room two for the money, any of the sales movies, it's always like you're about to go to war.
Yours is like, Hey, like we're just really just trying to create a solution.
And it fit perfectly because the time when I was working there, that was literally the transition that we were making in our sales pitch.
At the same time, it was like seller, it was like a customer focus and a completely changed everything.
My team had great performance, my sales skills picked up.
And then even in day to day, I would just try things.
So the time I travel and I would just implement some of the things that you mentioned on the podcast and day to day life.
And I just see that I would just get things from people I would normally feel like anxious about because I historically was a very aggressive salesperson.
And thanks to your work that you've done, it really helped me take a step back and say hey, there's a better way to do this.
And then when you had that event in New York last year, I said, I have to go to this.
I have to go.
I was like, one is in New York.
Right.
So gotta go to New York.
And then two.
It's with somebody who you know I look up to as like a mentor, you know from afar, in negotiation and whose work has had a significant impact on my success.
So I just couldn't pass the opportunity.
And then that in person event was more than I could ever ask for.
I mean, I probably should have paid 100 times more than I paid for it, honestly.
So yeah, I took it back to my team.
They love the material.
They're like, Oh, man, this is some great stuff.
And The way you were willing to really get granular on the truth of what people experience day-to-day in negotiations and business scenarios and the psychology behind it all.
Just taking that deep dive in it and that event in New York was just incredible.
Man, thank you.
That means a lot to me, because that's really the goal just to make difficult conversations easier, demystify the process, help people to connect and have real conversations where you can solve problems, like you said, creating solutions.
And what I love about this is that it shows the journey.
Because you came in with a methodology, you were more aggressive as a negotiator and then you recognize okay, there's another way.
You put it into practice.
Because a lot of times people just make it a theoretical exercise.
But you're like, no, I'm actually going to try this.
You tried it at work.
You got better deals, you tried it in other areas of your life and you started to see success.
And then that's when the confidence grew.
And this has been easily the best advertisement for the podcast and events I've ever had.
So thank you for that.
Well deserved.
Well deserved.
Thank you.
And listeners, this is where the story really gets interesting.
Because in the past 365 days since that event in New York almost a year ago, you have had some unique opportunities to flex these negotiation skills.
So can you tell the listeners about the real estate work you were doing and then the transition that happened this year?
Yeah, absolutely.
So my specialty is distressed residential real estate.
And I actually got into the real estate business at the very beginning of COVID in March of 2020.
March 25th, 2020, I transitioned from tech to full on real estate.
And that was an interesting conversation to have with the wife to say the least, right?
So things went really well, worked for a great organization.
And then, unfortunately at the beginning of so I went to the event came back.
Things are rocking and rolling towards the end of the year, great holiday season.
And then unfortunately at the beginning of this year, 2024, the founder of the company, passed away.
So that just kind of threw everything into disarray.
I was part of the resolution team essentially for the business.
So I helped, you know, kind of to wrap things up.
So I mean, something interesting in negotiations is when word got out that unfortunately he had passed competitors calling in China backdoor deals.
So everything you see in a movie where you're like Oh, this is essentially an opportunity to take advantage of the competition.
I experienced that in real life and then trying to figure out ways to keep individuals who were selling us their homes on board when competition was.
And then even when some of the folks that we were in negotiate, who were actively in process of closing on their properties, heard calling in and saying well, I want to back out of this deal.
Or dealing with investors saying well hey like, what's going to happen, and all those types of things, while you're dealing with this personal tragedy because he was the founder of the company but he meant a lot to us personally.
The impact he had within our industry is significant.
He's one of the most impactful people ever in our industry.
And for him to go, it was like, okay, you're dealing with this personally.
And then how did you isolate that?
So you're really negotiating with yourself first right, because when we got the news, we literally had to get back to work because we're like well, you're still a and what we do for a living.
As it may sound callous, but I can't call someone and say, hey look, I can't Buy this house anymore at this.
Two three, four hundred thousand dollars that you were counting on in the next five days.
We're dealing with something emotionally.
We can't deal with it anymore.
Right.
So that's not an option.
So you have to negotiate with yourself to get back to that.
And then now you have to do with the actual business things, where you're just trying to keep it together and keep everything flowing so that the family could have everything that they needed, in order to make sure that everything landed where it needed to be after the unfortunate series of events.
Wow.
First of all, kudos to you and your team, because that's incredibly difficult to do.
So not only did you experience a personal tragedy there's a grieving that has to happen, there's a mourning period but then also you recognize that you've been thrust into a new level of leadership.
And a lot of times, as leaders, we are faced with this fork in the road decision just every moment of every single day.
Am I going to be selfish or selfless?
And this is a simplification, but sometimes it's really hard to be selfless when you're experiencing a lot of these emotional challenges and.
But you recognize hey, even though I'm feeling this, I have to find a way to move forward.
I still have to find a way to be a selfless leader that focuses on the needs of the team and the family, and That's hard to do.
So let's actually explore this internal negotiation, because I'm glad that you said that you started there, because a lot of times people just say I'm going to ignore the emotions.
I'm going to try to muscle my way through this.
And then it leads to breakdowns down the road.
So with that internal negotiation, how did you manage your emotions in order to perform?
Yeah, well, first thing was, I mean, there's so many different phases.
So the first thing was, OK, well, when do I tell my family that this has happened?
Right.
Because obviously I have my family is going to be like, well, are we going to be OK?
Right.
So then it's OK.
Well, let me make sure that I have a clear path.
So the first thing was I had to get my own I had to get my head right first.
I said OK well, this is where we are.
What's the next phase of this right?
And then the thing that made that really easy was I just really just focused on the relationships so like we still had like our chief of staff there at the time, and he's an amazing human being who, like you know, over the years we've grown to be amazing friends.
And then as part of the other folks who are part of the resolution team, we're literally a family.
One of the guys I speak to every single morning, we have lunch once a week.
And we literally get back together and have these moments because you put the relationships first.
So that internal negotiation was easily just put down to.
Well, what's the right thing to do by the people that I care about?
Right.
So one thing I found is that in any organization, when you focus in on the people relationships, you really it sounds corny.
And I know there's all these social media means about like when they say it's a family, it's not a family.
But it really is true.
Like we like I'm like, I'm gonna be at the baby shower for like one of these guys.
And like, we're probably never going to work together again directly.
But like, that's how close we all got.
Right.
So then it came down to Okay, what do I do next?
And I said, OK, well, let me just speak to them.
And then obviously everybody who was involved said, hey, look, we know this is a tough situation.
We understand that you need runway to plan.
But, you know, are you able to support in the interim?
And that's exactly what we did.
It was OK.
What's the way that I can do what I know is the right thing to do ethically, while not getting burned on the back end on a personal level, on a financial level?
And fortunately I was able to have authentic conversations and really get the best of both worlds by being able to have those conversations.
And also too, by them reciprocating that, which is just another case in point.
You really are working with people that truly cared about you, because it wasn't like Hey, you can't do anything while you're still here.
You have a non-compete.
You can't go ahead and seek out new opportunities.
You can't do deals while we're wrapping this up.
Everything is going to stop on this day.
And then that's when you can proceed.
No, they we were able to find a happy medium and say, OK, well, I want to help.
While at the same time, I also need to begin to build for my future, because once X date comes, there's no runaway unless I build it out.
There is so much here.
So first, I can definitely empathize with when and how do I tell my family?
Because whenever there's bad news, you realize yeah, this is hard for me to handle, but maybe I can handle this.
But our families, they will filter this through the lens of safety.
Like, am I safe?
Am I okay?
And so understanding how to deliver that message, that is tough.
But I love that you started with getting your head straight, right?
Just recognizing this is having an emotional effect on you.
And it's kind of like what they say in the airplanes, put on your oxygen mask first.
And going back to what I said before about selfish versus selfish.
Self-care is not selfish, right?
That is not a bad thing because, you recognize, in order for me to perform well in these conversations, I need to make sure I'm okay.
And then I love the fact that when you were having the conversations with your team members about what we're actually going to do, you started off by first acknowledging the emotions and the difficulty of the situation.
Hey, this is tough for everybody.
I know we're all grieving and struggling in our own type of way.
How can you support?
How can we help each other to move through it?
So it wasn't just saying, hey, everybody, forget your feelings.
Let's get stuff done.
You're saying, hey, this is tough.
What are you able to do?
And that's a great example of a compassionate negotiation that helps the person in their emotional situation but then also focuses on the future and helps you to move forward and and solve problems.
Yeah, and i mean it's a big thing too, especially because obviously everybody had a different path, right.
So as a leadership team, we all took time out like hey, like we helped place folks in new jobs, like folks who were like hey, like i don't really have that conversation, okay.
So now that this opportunity is past, what do you actually want to do next?
And particularly because we have a fairly young sales, for?
I think our average age is like 20, three or 24, right?
Yeah.
Wow.
So yeah, so like now you have, and like these are folks who've had a lot of success in their early 20s.
And for the most part, it was the first time they've ever experienced anything like this.
You know, i'm in my 30s now, so you know i've been, i've lived through the great recession and then like, i grew up in inner city so i've been like for me.
I'm like this is like kind of like you know, just kind of par for the course, you kind of just figure it out.
But for a lot of these kids it's like they've had success your first job out of college, you're making six figures a year, and then it just disappears one day.
So we really had those kind of like hey, is this something you still want to do?
If this is something you still want to do, than that.
And then we speak to other companies, try to get them placed there, and then also too, like some folks like hey, like i like this, but i really just like sales, it doesn't have to be this.
And then we try to get them placed at other companies as well, like some of the bigger corporations down here in south florida.
So incredible.
No, that's great.
That is great because yeah if, If you're that age and you're experiencing your first hardship and it comes in this form, that's going to be tough.
And again it's a great example of compassionate leadership.
To gather the information you need to figure out what they really want and then make those connections.
And what I find really fascinating about this story is that we see this compassionate leadership and the compassionate negotiations that you're having internally and the kind of white glove, soft handed approach that we have to have in those types of conversations.
And then, at the same time, you are dealing with sharks who are circling trying to take the business.
And so, with that element, can you just break it down for people who might not be familiar with the industry what that actually looks like in practicality, and then what types of negotiations you had to have in order to work through that?
Yeah, absolutely.
So just like any other business, you know, you're doing your marketing.
So your competitors are a lot of times speaking to the same people that you're speaking to.
In particular, we were very heavy on direct mail. and pay per click.
So definitely leads are going to be touched by a lot of the competition, in particular in the areas that we're focused in.
So what would happen is that if someone spoke to one of the individuals whose home we were purchasing at the time And they happened to mention that, oh yeah, I went with this company instead,
Then, when word got out, they'd call back and say hey look, did you hear that they were going out of business?
The craziest part was.
So there was one day.
It was a slower day because obviously we had turned off the marketing at this point.
And there was a day and I remember, one morning I came in and I was like, oh my gosh, like this just must be late in marketing.
That was just still coming through on me like 15 to 20 phone calls, something like that.
And I checked it.
And when I searched the numbers online, They were all competitor numbers.
And one guy even left a voicemail saying, I just wanted to see if you guys were still open.
And it was crazy because some of these people were like people like you know who were like close with the founder of the company.
People were like, you know, we were competitors, but there was always a healthy respect.
But, you know, there was blood in the water and the shark definitely showed up.
So, yeah.
Wow.
OK.
Yeah.
Yeah, this is shaping up to be like a movie.
So listeners, I hope you have your popcorn as you're hearing this story.
Did you all have conversations with the competitors about this?
Did you address it?
No, because it would have just been a waste of energy.
And then we were really just trying to make sure that everything closed out, because in particular in our business we have like longer term files, right.
So if there is like a probate file, or if there's like a file that's going through, you know, some sort of tax lien situation, or there's a more difficult closing because of the person's financing who we're selling the property to, then in that particular instance you really don't have time for it.
And especially because at the same time, we had a much smaller team.
So the only energy we had was just to focus on getting the job done.
In particular.
I mean, in a business like real estate, it's par for the course.
You know We're saying real estate when somebody, when you speak to some of these folks, like they really stepped up and say hey, how can we help?
And they really meant it.
It really kind of separated like oh, these are the people who are truly decent people and really wanted to help out.
And then the folks who were like, oh well, it was just all a facade, when we were the biggest, baddest company on the block right.
But for the good folks.
I mean one of the best things that happened was from the competitors that were truly helpful.
They actually helped with some of our job placement needs.
So they were like hey, like look when will?
When the company, who are the people who you think would be a good fit here?
And every company has a different culture.
So we literally like, pick and chose like OK well, this personality type will work well with this type of leader.
So we got them placed at that company over there, or they wrote him a recommendation letter for that company over there.
And the same for this different personality type here, where it's going to be the best home, where you feel like our sales team, who now needs a new opportunity, will be treated just as good as we treated them.
Wow.
So it's almost like the blood in the water, sharkish type of behavior.
It wasn't something that you had to address directly because of the trajectory of the business.
You were trying to wind things down in a respectful way for your clients and for the team.
But-
That behavior kind of helped them to self-select out of the job placement opportunities for people on your team because you could say, all right, I can see what type of ethics this company is working with.
Let's place these people in other organizations that may have been competitive, but we like the way that they competed.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Oh, that's good.
Okay.
And now for those people that you were working with who got those calls from competitors saying hey, did you hear they're going out of business.
Do you want to come with us now?
I'm sure there were some clients that you were working with who got cold feet.
They got scared.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
How did you know that?
Absolutely.
So one of my friends Ricky, who's the gentleman I mentioned, we're very close now and he was a leader at the organization as well.
And he said, remember, an answer with nothing is better than nothing.
So if all I can do is, especially as we're negotiating or if we're working a deal together, if all I have for you on this particular day is hey, just want to let you know we're still working on it, right?
That's better.
In particular, which when I came to real estate especially coming from the large organization I was at before when I was at Comcast like responsiveness to the customers is a huge thing.
And we're coming into real estate and then just bringing over that service element that I developed there through the trainings that I had there.
And then seeing like how big of an impact it made.
People would say, I can't believe you call me back so fast or like you actually picked the phone.
And I was shocked.
And I said well, it's crazy how, in some industries, a base level of service can lead to so much business.
And that was really the biggest thing.
Most of the folks were just like hey, like yeah, we heard, or hey, I was wondering because I called the other day and then we've made it, got proactive.
We went through the entire deal pipeline and we just started calling people saying, hey look, Just letting you know.
Now, of course unfortunately, you did have some of those situations, but that's what contracts are for.
Right.
So, I mean, you, as a litigator yourself, you know, so like, Hey, like, okay, we're nice.
You know, first call, second call.
Third call, fourth call.
Okay, listen, we're closing.
You can't back out.
Just you can't back out of the deal.
What does that mean?
I don't want to discuss what that means.
Just know that it doesn't end well for any of us.
And it's going to cost a lot of money.
And then when you have that conversation, 999 of the time, most of the folks who are pushing are just like okay.
All right.
But yeah, that led to us having to expedite some closings, like hey, like let's get this close, because if anything else goes wrong, then this person is definitely not on board.
All right.
Oh my goodness.
So many notes that I'm taking here.
So first of all, this is a bar for real.
An answer with nothing is better than nothing.
That's brilliant.
And if I'm going to label a point, you've been dropping gems this whole episode, but that would be my five star point.
So listeners, if you're loving this, you're 20 minutes in, so clearly you are.
If you haven't left a review yet, give us a five star review and shout out Andy in the comment, because that's great.
And I think about so many times just in everyday life where we might have bad news or there might be a problem and we don't yet have a solution.
And we say, I'm going to get to this person once I figure it out.
And it takes us longer to figure it out than we thought as that's happening.
In the other person's mind.
They are catastrophizing about all of the awful reasons why you're not reaching out.
It's never going to be a good assumption, right?
So just checking in to say, hey, I'm still here.
I'm still working.
I'm going to get back to you.
It does so much, so much.
So that is a really great point.
And, like you said, it shows that the responsiveness to the customer, just the customer service element, can win the day in so many situations.
So it shows how just the fundamentals of responsiveness and focusing on the client the service element of everything can win the day in so many scenarios.
But it's often the fundamentals that people forget about when they're under duress.
So that background that you had coming into real estate really shined through in that situation.
And I love how you handled that difficult element of the conversation where you're talking about hey, we have a contract for a reason.
If you back out, there will be consequences.
It's hard to deliver that line without it sounding ominous and threatening.
And so when they're like, well, what are you essentially what are you going to do, Andy?
What are you going to do?
You're not going to say, well, I'm going to sue you into next year.
That's what I'm going to do.
He didn't respond that way.
It's like, hey, listen, we're in solution mode.
I don't want to talk about it, but it won't be good for either of us.
So it shows like I don't want to have to do this.
But I'm giving you an opportunity to be part of this solution.
And if you choose this path, then it's out of my hands.
Somebody else will be in touch.
Right.
And so I love the way that you phrase that, because it could really make or break a negotiation depending on how you deliver that part of the element.
Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I mean.
So the what if is such a huge part of all the negotiations, in particular when you focus in on what the person's trying to accomplish.
I mean, there was a deal that we did in Georgia last year and the person just kept stalling for one reason or another.
We finally get them on board.
We're under contract.
All these title issues are just popping up left and right, but we're still on board to handle everything.
And then he started saying this, this and this.
And I said well look, not saying any of these things are going to happen, but here's a list of things that could happen.
All right.
I said are you willing to take the risk that these things happen just because you just don't quote unquote, feel like it right now?
All right.
And then he was like, well, of course not.
And I said, and then that's it's one of these lines from your podcast that I use all the time.
I talk about this in New York.
It's the I use at least once a week.
It seems like there's something being left unsaid.
I use that one all the time.
And then he just started word vomiting.
Well, my wife is this.
She doesn't think it's a good deal.
And I said, well, hey, look, let's do this.
I said, why don't you think it's a good deal?
And he said, because I think the house is worth way more.
I said, I'll send you the comps I'm using.
And I sent them all.
I did full transparency.
I said, this house, this house, this house, this house.
I said, all these homes sold when the market was better.
I'm still giving you a number based on these.
I said what do you think the house is going to?
How much do you think is going to cost to fix the house up?
And he's like this.
And I said so.
If I buy it from you for this and I fix it up right, then where's?
There's no margin here.
I said, I'm trying to create a solution for you, but we're also an investing company.
There has to be a profit.
If you're willing to take the risk and do that then, like we told you at the beginning, you should do it.
Are you prepared to take the $60,000 and do that yourself?
And he's like, no way.
He's like, I don't want nothing to do with it.
I don't want anything to do with this house.
And I said, OK, are we good to go now?
And he's like, yeah, it's fine.
Let's just go ahead and close.
Right.
So it seems like it's something being left and said.
And it wasn't him.
It was the unknown unknown.
There's a wife somewhere in the background that he never mentioned because he starts off.
I said, hey, anybody else you need to speak to on this?
He's like, no, I'm the only decision maker.
But I heard the wife in the background.
I was like, is that your wife in the background?
He's like, oh, yeah, she's fine.
But whatever I say, she'll do.
That's how it goes for weeks up until right before closing.
And then now I'm like OK, like I expected, she's the decision maker, or at least she has a significant impact on it.
So but we that line helped me get through that.
Well, Andy, you have a partner too.
I do as well.
And we both know that they are the decision makers, no matter what we say.
Types of leverage that exist in a marriage cannot come from other places.
And it's such a great example.
First of all, I love that you dropped the podcast line to break.
That is sensational.
So cool.
So cool.
And then the other thing is just the fact that you acknowledge the emotions and the situation, even though you didn't know exactly what it was.
You're saying hey listen, I'm sensing something.
What is it that I'm sensing here?
And then you got all of that information.
And one of the things we have to remember is that there is no such thing as sense, just a negotiation with two parties.
If you're talking to somebody else, there are other people involved.
To what degree are they involved?
I don't know, but we know that they're involved in some capacity.
And so even if they don't have traditional decision-making authority, they do have influence.
There's somebody who is watching.
There are some other stakeholders here.
And once you get an idea of who those people are and what those interests are, Then you can be a more creative dealmaker.
Because I listen.
I don't know what happened in that situation, but if I were in his situation, you know what I would have done.
I would have taken those comps that you gave to me and I would have gone back to Whitney and said see, hey look, I'm a good negotiator.
You see this deal?
This is a great deal.
You know?
He wants to feel like a winner and he's feeling like a loser in this moment.
And so this is such a great example of creative deal making because you didn't need to bully them, or strong are them, or it wasn't even like one of those like logic trap types of questions.
It was just saying, hey, I'm here to provide you with a solution and you still have this problem.
Let's work it through.
And once you're able to break through that. we're able to make the deal happen.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I mean there's so many situations, especially in our business, where there'll be folks who aren't even on title or like you have no idea.
And it could just be like, Kwame is my trusted friend.
I ask him about everything.
I'll never know that they spoke to you, but I do need to make sure that I gauge what that is.
There's a one deal I always got a bunch of flack for.
So it was an amazing deal for us.
And the gentleman called in, the house was just in disarray, but he had two daughters.
I have two daughters.
We spent like 45 minutes to an hour just talking about our kids.
That was it.
And I was like, I just like this guy.
Whatever happens on this call, I just like this guy.
Right.
Like he's such he's just a good dude.
Right.
So he's but I could tell he didn't understand anything about real estate.
And what I found is that whenever there's like a true, like lack of understanding about what's going on, you do have to take it upon yourself.
To provide some level of understanding, because if you don't and they go to anyone else, you always have that leg to.
You won't have the leg to stand on.
Well, he told me this already and he asked for a number.
And I told him, I said, hey, look, I got to be straightforward with you.
I said I could buy it at that price point.
I said, but even I think that's too low.
Right.
And I remember my team was like, you're crazy.
And I said, something in my gut is telling me that I need to do this.
Right.
I'm like, you know, I'm a spiritual person, too.
So I was like, I literally felt like the Lord looking down on me.
Don't do it.
So I said to him, I said, hey, look, I think the house is worth this fixed up.
I said, I know you mentioned you have a chance.
He's like, yeah, but I kind of heard some of the neighbors.
I said, okay.
I said, based on what you're telling me, this is going to be a lot of work.
But at this price point, you're almost just basically giving me the house for free.
I said, how about if I pay this number?
This will give me enough room to protect the company if anything goes wrong with the market or whatever the case is.
And I can actually get you more than you need to buy your new house.
And he said, man, that's great.
And then he goes, I need to speak to my mom though.
Right.
So I'm like, okay, talk to your mom.
I get a random call.
I said, Hey, here's my cell phone number.
Cause I was traveling at the time.
I was going to my niece's high school graduation.
So I'm at the airport.
And I get a call from a random number in Jacksonville.
I said, oh, hey, this is Andy.
And she goes, hey, you spoke to my son earlier today.
I was like, oh, and she comes in like a ball of fire.
I don't say anything.
She goes, he told me what he wanted to sell this house for.
I think he's an idiot.
He should just fix it up himself.
But he told me you're paying him more than even he asked for.
So you must be a good guy.
I'm just going to tell him to sign it right now.
How soon can you guys get somebody out here to take photos of the house and get it done?
And I was like, oh, my gosh.
But I just knew because because like your gut tells you, he knows so little.
But you could also tell that he knew enough to go ask somebody else and he wasn't going to tell me that person.
And it was his mom.
And then she called me back directly and said I'm going to tell him to sign your contract because of the way you handle things with him.
Ooh, man.
A contract with a conscience.
I like that.
Yeah.
Because the reality is that sometimes we can.
Because of the fact that we know more than the other person, we might have more information or we might have more skills.
There is the opportunity to manipulate people. with these skills?
That's one of the questions that people ask me quite frequently.
They say well, I'm listening to you talk about persuasion, but what's the difference between persuasion and manipulation?
And for me, it comes down to intent, right?
And so when you have these powers, it's your responsibility to wield them ethically.
And this is a great example.
And then there might be a dealmaker who's listening to this podcast and saying, well, What?
You should have just put him in the ground, right?
Well, let's play this out, though, because then he would have talked to somebody else.
They would have said, this is not a good deal.
This person's taking advantage of you.
And we have to remember, trust is gained in drips, but it's lost in buckets.
You invested all of this information, all of this time, into creating this warm rapport, sharing about your family structure and everything like that.
And you're starting to like him.
He's starting to like you.
And if you would have found out that you were trying to pull a fast one, that would have been all gone in an instant.
And the thing is, you understand also it's a competitive market.
Somebody could have really easily come in and given them a better offer, and then you would have lost it.
And so I would hypothesize that even if somebody came in at this point and gave a marginally better offer, he would still go with you because of that trust factor.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean there's like That same service element and the trust factor.
I mean literally.
We had a deal in Texas and I asked her at the end of the day, I said, what made you choose me?
She said you were the only company that actually picked up the phone, when your website said you would pick up the phone.
She's like, I made four phone calls before you, and you were the only one that actually picked up.
And she's like, you were straightforward.
And everything in the contract.
She said oh, I'm going to go through your contract with a fine-tooth comb.
And literally, we got to the failure performance clause.
And then she said, what does this mean?
I said, it means that if we don't perform, you keep our EMD.
I said, it means that if you don't show up to the closing table then unfortunately you might get sued.
But you're going to show up, right.
She's like, oh, she's like, okay, well, that's easy enough.
And we went through all 28 sections of the agreement and she signed.
It was like an hour and 15 minute phone call, but we bought her house in an hour and 15 minutes, specifically because of the transparency and because of their responsiveness.
Incredible.
Oh, Andy, this is great.
This is great.
I could talk to you forever about this, because there's so many examples of these negotiation strategies working in every facet of your life.
And that's why we call the podcast Negotiate Anything.
And you're just a living, breathing testament of that.
So I appreciate you, man.
Before you go, let the listeners know about what it is that you're doing now and how they could potentially work with you.
Yeah, absolutely.
So if you wanted to reach me, feel free to.
You can message me on Instagram at Newton underscore invest.
That's Newton, just like Isaac or the fig, whichever you prefer.
That's a Newton underscore.
Invest, or you can actually email me directly at Andy at South homebuyerscom.
So if you want to work with me whether it's you need help with your sales training, or if you need just a deal analysis on a home that you're either looking to sell immediately, if you need help with the listing analysis, if you need help with all types of different things, we take over mortgage payments.
Folks write a seller to contracts.
At the end of the day, my job is just really to create a solution.
Like I tell everybody I speak with and the folks that I work with tell everybody that they speak with.
They say hey look, at the end of the day, whether we buy the house or not, we just want to help you out.
All right.
So if we end the conversation and we spent an hour on the phone together and it's like hey, like we're just not a fit,
I'll be OK.
Well, here's some ideas on what you could do that could get you to the end game that you are looking for.
Yeah, we offer support in all types of different ways when it comes to our real estate and sales sales training.
So.
Amazing.
Andy, thank you so much for joining us today.
Really appreciate it.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
Dream come true.
That's the power of a masterclass.
One topic, multiple lenses and real world application.
You've just heard three experts tackle the same issue in different ways.
And now the question is, what will you do with it?
Negotiation isn't theory.
It's practice.
It's self-awareness.
It's choosing courage over comfort.
So pick one insight today and apply it in your next conversation, because skill doesn't come from listening.
It comes from doing.
I'll catch you in the next one.
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