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Be dentist -ready. Shop the Colgate total active prevention system by visiting shop Colgate comm slash total Welcome to stuff you should know a production of I heart radio Hey and welcome to the podcast I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is sesame Street Edition which has been a long time coming Yeah, and I don't know if you planned this or not, but our selects episode, like the week before this comes out, I believe is Jim Henson.
I did not plan it. What?
No, I really didn't.
Wow, amazing. That's Kermit.
I mean, kismet. Kismet.
Right, that's really cool.
Yeah, if you haven't listened to those, I mean, really a couple of our greatest episodes ever in Stuff You Should Know lore are our Muppet episode and our Jim Henson up.
So those are good primers if you haven't heard those yet.
Yeah, because this definitely touches on Jim Henson because Jim Henson was a huge driver for Sesame Street initially, as we'll see.
But let's talk a little bit about Sesame Street.
We should say what it is, probably.
Yeah, although I would be really surprised if basically everyone listening wasn't at least familiar.
But for those of you who aren't, that's fine.
And Sesame Street is a long -running children's television educational program that started way back in, I think, 1969 was season one, and has spread all over the world.
I think it's in 150 to 170 countries, depending on who you ask.
Amazing. And even more than that, in 30 of those countries, at least, there are what are called co -productions where they have basically taken the ball and said, we're gonna make our own version of Sesame Street in conjunction with the people who make Sesame Street and just kind of adapt it to local customs and culture more.
So it's a global juggernaut and it's basically globally beloved too.
Yeah, I mean, not by everyone.
I'm sure some people hate it.
I hope you're wrong.
I was just kidding.
Okay, good. I think everyone has a soft spot, at least for Sesame Street.
I watched it for sure as a kid, but I wasn't like, I don't remember years and years and years and years of watching it.
I moved on to Electric Company, which felt like a little bit older version.
Much more intellectual.
Yeah, maybe a little bit, so I moved on to that pretty quickly, but I did love Sesame Street and the Muppets.
And it was right in our wheelhouse, even though it was, I guess it was started just a few years before I was born, actually, sadly.
Yeah. But again, it s one of the longest running television shows in the history of the United States.
It s up there with, like, General Hospital.
Like, it s just been going forever.
It s in season 55 right now.
It s been continuous every year since it started.
And it is, at least in the United States, but I would suspect in a lot of parts of the world, it s basically a rite of early childhood.
It s a rite of passage, like you just kind of grow up on Sesame Street.
Then, like you said, I think as you start to age out of it, you move on to other stuff that was also produced by people who produced Sesame Street.
Oh, I hope I don't start saying Semeses Street, because that's just not going to work.
That might be the name of it in some country, you never know, as we'll see.
They do have some great names for it.
Maybe we should talk a little bit just out of the gate about some of the biggest characters, most iconic characters, and when they were introduced because not all of them have been around for the whole run.
But from the very beginning, in the first season, we got Big Bird. I know we've talked about it, but there's a great documentary on Big Bird that you should watch if you're into that kind of thing.
Grover was right away.
Kermit was in season one, although as you learned, Kermit was already on TV and other areas such that people were like, Kermit's a little, I don't know if we're over him, but maybe a little overexposed, so they actually removed him after season one for a little while, right?
Yeah, I think they were concerned that he was too commercialized.
He was too associated with advertising and hauling products that they were like, this doesn't really have a place here.
Yeah. We also got Bert and Ernie in season one, Oscar, the grouch, our friend in the trashcan, the cookie monster, and then a couple of years later, we got Aloysius Snuffleuffagus, Snuffleuffagus, excuse me.
Not a nice little factoid for your next -gener party, is that he does have a first name and it's Aloysius.
What about the count?
72. What about tele monster?
This was 79 I must not have been watching it that much at eight years old because I did not remember tele monster.
I remembered him but he wasn't a big deal to me.
So I don't know. I guess we cross paths.
Who was Dave help us with this?
No, this was Dr. Claw.
Oh well. Laura Clawson.
Laura might have been into tele monster so maybe that's why she listed it.
Well, I know it's kind of a big one, but I think even more than Telly by far as far as recognition goes, Elmo came along way earlier than I thought.
Same. He came along in 1980.
Yeah. But he was just kind of a background character.
I don't even think he necessarily had a name or any big speaking parts, but he eventually kind of caught on and became one of the more beloved Muppets of all time.
Stay tuned for Act Three to learn how that happened.
Yeah. How about a cliffhanger there?
And then I guess we'll talk a little bit about the origins.
We'll come back to some of the Muppet characters later on.
Yeah, we should mention the hardware, though.
Because they have won a staggering 221 Emmy awards.
I'm not gonna degrade it by saying, well, they're daytime Emmys.
But they are daytime Emmys.
And you can rack up a lot of those over the years, but 221 over 55 seasons.
I don't care how you slice it, that's super impressive.
I have zero Emmy's.
As do I, which I'm kind of surprised neither one of us has an Emmy for the work that we've done.
11 Grammy's, pretty good.
Sure. And then a bunch of Peabody's.
I believe that the last time they got an Emmy, the producer accepted it just yawned on stage and walked off.
Just threw it in a big room, pulled the rest of them.
Yeah, on the pile. So we should talk about the origins of all this because Sesame Street and the whole idea behind it grew out of two developing things in the mid 1960s.
One was President Lyndon Baines Johnson's Great Society, which was this ideal policy movement toward ending poverty and inequality, getting rid of crime, helping the environment, making a great society as far as progressives were concerned.
That was one thing that was going on.
So there was much more of an awareness.
There was a, like they literally declared a war on poverty.
So there was much more of an awareness of a difference between the advantaged and the disadvantaged, especially among children in the United States at the time.
And then on the other side of the coin, there was this growing awareness among psychologists and other educators, that what had been previously neglected and ignored, which was the early childhood years, say between three and five, were really crucial to the intellectual development of a kid.
And so there came this idea to create television programming that was geared toward disadvantaged kids between ages three and five to help them to give them kind of a leg up before they started schooling.
That's pretty much the premise of where this whole thing came from.
Yeah, which is, I mean talk about a noble cause.
They were on board from the beginning and we'll, as you'll see, you know, shortly, they really put their money where their mouths were as far as doing actual research and studies to make sure they were doing what they intended to do.
Precisely. As the story goes, in 1966 as far as the origin, a woman named Joan Ganz Cooney and a dude named Lloyd Morissette were at a dinner party and they started talking about TV and like maybe TV could educate kids.
Cooney was in the newspaper biz.
She started producing TV.
And then as soon as New York City got a educational television station, she came on board and started working for them.
And I think a documentary on a Harlem preschool was her first job.
And it really just got her hooks, got its hooks in her as far as like hey, TV can do something different.
Yeah, she said in a documentary called Street Gang, I think Colin Howey got to Sesame Street.
It was from 2021, that she wanted to find out what television would do if it loved people instead of trying to sell the people.
Yeah. And this is a time where the FCC chair back in 1961 under JFK, his name was Newton Minow, He made a name for himself historically by saying that television was a vast wasteland.
And I mean, he was kind of right.
There was some good stuff on at the time but also there was some really bad stuff too.
And it was, I think what he was ultimately saying though is he wasn't critiquing the smartness of the sitcoms at the time.
And he was basically saying like, there's nothing to be gained from like, this is all just dumb escapism and advertising essentially is what TV is.
And we hadn't really come a very long way for a long time.
Well, we have and we haven't.
One step forward, two steps back maybe.
Hey man, when they did away with the afterschool special, TV took a nosedive as far as I'm concerned.
As far as Morissette goes, he was a VP at the Carnegie Corporation.
A very smart guy, he had a PhD in psychology from Yale.
And his sort of lore goes that he was watching his daughter, or his young daughter watch TV test patterns before broadcast started early one morning and he was like oh my God kids, like they'll really watch anything.
If it's on a screen this is not good.
No, he said to Joan Ganz Cooney, isn't it ironic don't you think?
Is he related? No, I think she has a E at the end of her name.
I don't think you're right.
I just wondered though because she was in kids television.
Yeah, you can't do that on television.
Yeah, I was like I wonder if there's a tie there but I guess not.
She got slimed. So they started doing a little research and they got a grant through the Carnegie Corporation because Morissette was a VP there.
And he wrote a report about, you know, using TV is a good thing for preschool kids.
They got another grant to develop like a more in depth pitch basically, did a lot more research. Again, they weren't just sort of writing from the dome.
And in 1968, they presented a proposal called Television for Preschool Children.
And again, on the premise that like, hey, all we're doing is like trying to sell stuff to people.
Like what if TV treated them with respect and love instead?
Yeah, and I mean, TV was a great way to get to kids already by the mid sixties.
I saw that I think, oh, I don't remember what year it was, but around the time that these guys were starting, kids were averaging 54 hours a week in front of the television.
That's almost eight hours a day.
That's a full workday of watching TV for kids.
So, I mean, they were already tuned in.
so the idea of like getting to them through the TV in a way that you were like you were trying to help them to educate them, I mean, it was radical for the time but it also was just totally sensible.
But like you said, they weren't just going on this idea like of course this is gonna work.
They tested this inside and out and what became the children's television workshop which is now called Sesame Workshop, this collaborative of like writers, producers, directors for the show but also child psychologists, sometimes religious leaders, educators and also of like different races ethnicities, all coming together to basically say like here are some things we can we like here's goals we want to achieve in educating kids.
We want them to learn cognitively.
We want them to learn social graces.
And like, I think if we try this way or that way, we can actually achieve that, but let's try this way and try that way and test them both and see which works best. Yeah, for sure.
And they had to get kids to watch though, like all of this hard work, it would be really, really sad if kids just didn't tune in because, as we'll see, like PBS and its precursor, the National Education Television network, maybe not a lot of people watched it at the time, So they knew they had to get eyeballs in front of it.
So from their initial $8 million in funding from different foundations and some from the federal government, they spent $900 ,000 of that 8 million to promote the show, which is a pretty staggering percentage out of the gate.
And they had a bunch of all, they went to regular media outlets of course, but they also hit head start programs and churches and day cares.
I think you found out that when, Like the week before the premiere they hired trucks with like loudspeakers to just drive around a lot of urban neighborhoods, advertising that it was coming on.
And like you mentioned from the onset, Mr. Jim Henson coming aboard was also a big part of getting people to watch because the Muppets were already a thing.
Yeah, like we said, Kermit was already so commercialized.
He basically was removed from the show, but they've been around since the 50s.
I think Jim Henson's first puppet gig was out of high school or during high school and he developed this shtick pretty quickly but it wasn't associated with kids.
He would take it on like the Steve Allen show or the Jack Paar show like late night TV and do like puppet skits that weren't at all geared toward kids and very quickly started doing advertising with them as well.
They just became a thing.
Muppets. People knew Muppets before they were Sesame Street.
So to land Jim Henson, he wasn't like some mega star, you know, he was no CC Deville at the time.
But he was well known so it was kind of like, they landed a bit of a whale by getting Jim Henson fully involved in developing and executing, or I should say producing Sesame Street initially.
You know what, I think I got the poison reference wrong in that episode recently.
That's why I said that.
CC Deville is a guitarist. Ricky Rocket was a drummer.
You got that straight finally.
Talk dirty to me. One of the reasons why also Chuck, it was so big to bring Jim Henson on was because from that research, and today this seems totally normal, but this grew out of the children's television workshop research was that puppets and animation really got kids going.
It really jazzed them.
You really got their attention.
And as we learn from the editorial cartoon episode, that's because they're super stimuli.
So they jack kids up.
And then weirdly, some of the child psychologists involved in the development of the show were like, okay, that's fine, we need puppets, but the humans and the puppets can never interact.
They can never communicate.
It will scare the bejesus out of the children if they do.
And I guess somebody was like, that's a pretty ridiculous thing.
And that got thrown away even before the pilot episode ran.
Well, no, they actually tested it with kids and learned that the kids were not interested in the adult only sections.
So they actually had real data so they tried it out and it just didn't work.
No, and they should have known too.
I mean, Sesame Street was pretty groundbreaking in that it was an educational show but they're already kids shows like Mr. Rogers had been around for a year before it debuted.
Captain Kangaroo had been around since 1955, but what made it different is that those shows were generally like anti -school, and they encouraged kids to explore life of crime.
Whereas Sesame Street was like, no let's go to school and be the best kind of people we can.
Now can we take a break?
Yes. All right, great.
We'll come back and talk a little bit about what happened on November 10th, 1969, right after this.
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All right, so I promised a specific date in mind, November 10, 1969, again, a year before, roughly before PBS came out, a show like this would air on something called the National Education Television.
And that's when it aired.
Ta -da. And it was a hit right out of the gate.
Almost seven million viewers in season one.
Ernie had a big hit song with Rubber Ducky.
They actually charted it number 16 on the billboards.
That's awesome. In September 1970 and was nominated for a Grammy.
And they used to do a ton of these episodes.
They had 130 episodes a season for awhile and then further reduction in funding kind of over the years trimmed it down.
And by the time they hit the 2000's They were down to 30 episodes a year.
But you know, I mentioned test pilots and James Earl Jones was, it kind of depends on who you talked to.
He was in one of those test pilots.
So some people say he was the first celebrity guest on Sesame Street, but the actual real episode one, season one, Carol Burnett was featured as the first guest. Yes, and Carol Burnett was laughing while she was counting to 10.
James Earl Jones is just staring at the camera doing the alphabet in almost a really creepy way.
Have you seen it? Oh yeah.
It's great. Yeah, and that pilot was called, the title of it was Gordon introduces Sally to Sesame Street.
And the other, I mean in my opinion, oddball human that appeared in episode one season one was magician James Randi.
Oh really? Yeah, pretty cool.
That is cool. was he just doing magic or teaching kids to be skeptics?
I think he was just doing magic.
I didn't watch the whole episode but I just thought that was kind of fun.
But the reason James Earl Jones was on there and shortly after Harry Belafonte and a lot of other black celebrities, very early on was because, again, the show initially was geared toward disadvantaged inner city black kids who had just been totally overlooked and forgotten So they wanted to show people that looked like them on TV and so they could learn from them.
So it was really kind of, I don't want to say like geared toward black kids but there was way more for the average three or four -year -old black kid growing up in America at the time that they could find anywhere else on TV.
The thing is is it was also designed for everybody, for every kid.
So any kid could come along and enjoy it.
And that was actually seen apparently Sesame Street is based on Harlem I guess and they originally had one name for it, which was I think was it 1 2 3 B Street or B Avenue I don't know.
I think it was and so People were like that sounds really, New York And it's going to turn off everybody outside in New York everyone in New York will love it But you know so they expanded it to Sesame Street eventually so that everybody could could appreciate it more Yeah, and part of the racial diversity was a problem in some places in the United States at the time, there are human characters Gordon and Susan were a black couple and the state of Mississippi said, not in my state, that's not going to be on television.
And because it is a you know PBS is a public thing, the state kind of shut that down.
The state commission did and banned it.
It only took 22 days for that to be reversed.
But take heart that a local NBC affiliate stepped up during that three weeks and aired those episodes even in Mississippi.
I think that's so cool, man.
Yeah, it's great. So yeah, the first, the original human cast were Gordon and Susan, a black couple and then Mr. Hooper and Bob, both of them were white and Mr. Hooper ran the store, Bob was a music teacher, Gordon was a science teacher and Susan originally started out as a housewife, developed into a nurse and then finally became a working mom later on.
Yeah, it took a couple of years to get Latino representation because initially in the first couple of seasons, Chicano activists and Puerto Rican activists were like, hey, where are we in this show?
And so by season three, we got Maria and Luis.
You did mention Gordon originally that was a guy named Matt Robinson, but he left the show.
He kind of co -created this character with Jim Henson named Roosevelt Franklin and he was purple, but he was sort of a black coated Muppet because he spoke using African American vernacular English and while some people was like no, this is great as a role model and it's real.
Other people were like no, that's a negative stereotype.
I think it would be different today, but for the time that didn't go over so well.
No, fans of Arrested Development will probably recognize Franklin, Joe Blust's puppet.
he was based on Roosevelt Franklin.
And because of that, when I started to watch clips of Roosevelt Franklin, the original Muppet, I was like, this is gonna be awful.
It was not. It's actually quite ridiculous that they got rid of him because he was a really well developed Black character.
It's just perplexing that they caved to that cause he was a good character.
Did you say Job or Gob Bluth?
Oh yeah, I said Job, didn't I?
Just stop the listener mails right now.
No, it's Job. I thought it was Gob, no. No, it's Job.
Or was that just one of the jokes?
Yeah, because his, that's his acronym, George something Bluth.
Okay. I thought there was a joke on there at some point about Gob, but I might just be wrong on that.
It's been a while. Hey man, it has been a while so you could be right too.
Don Music was another character they got rid of.
Don Music was a composer that would get frustrated and bang his head on the piano keys parents were like, hey, my kid is banging their head on piano keys and stuff and uh we we gotta get this character out of there.
So, they got rid of Don music pretty early on as well.
Poor Don. Yeah, um so there's a, there, that's, this is like nothing unusual for Sesame Street.
They started doing that from the outset, right.
Like they started, like they were, it started off with a black and white cast and I mean that was still kind of strange or unusual for tv in America, but they keep doing it.
And what's kind of saddening is every time they do it, it's like, oh my God, I can't believe how great this is that they're including this character.
And then there's another segment of the public who's like, I can't believe they're including that character.
It's just sad. Either way, I think it's both kind of sad because what they're doing, what Sesame Street does is they say, there's a group of people out there who are being neglected that kids that we're talking to Interact with and we need to bring them on just to normalize them because they're just normal people and we need to show that So they've they've introduced a number of characters that prove to be controversial over the years What I like about Sesame Street with the exception of Roosevelt Franklin They basically just stay mute on it and they're like you guys sorted out.
We're gonna just do our thing over here Yeah, for sure.
And this is you know, pretty early on too in 1978.
They had a character with Down syndrome who was in preschool his name was Jason Kingsley and was the son of a writer Emily Kingsley for Sesame Street.
And so all of a sudden they started having more kids with you know challenges and disabilities, they've had kids that are hearing impaired, they've had kids in wheelchairs over the years.
Recently they've kind of brought it into the modern age for you know issues that kids face sadly more and more these days.
One character had food insecurity and eventually homelessness.
Yeah, that's Lily. Yeah, and another whose father was in prison, and then another kid who was in foster care because her mother is battling opioid addiction.
So they've never been afraid to bite off some really, really tough stuff that sadly kids have to deal with and they know they have to deal with this stuff so they're not backing away from it.
Yeah, one of the other things that Sesame Street does when it introduces like a muppet like this is shine the light on the fact that this is an actual thing.
They're not like, what obscure terrible situation can we find and base a Muppet on?
Apparently, in the United States, 2 .5 million children are homeless at any given time.
2 .61 million children have a father or a parent who's in prison, and another 1 .4 million have a parent addicted to opioids.
So it's not like these are niche topics that niche puppets are built on, these are real challenges that a lot of little kids in the United States face.
Whether you consider it tasteful or not.
Yeah, for sure. You know, we mentioned that they put their money where their mouth is as far as continuing to do research and study about, you know, its effect on kids and potential outcomes.
Because that was, you know, that was the mission statement from the very beginning.
So they couldn't just be like, we're doing a great job, so we're good.
They got into the Educational Testing Service to do a study after just season one and they sampled 943 kids from urban areas and then one rural area.
And the kids, there were disadvantaged kids in urban areas and rural areas.
There were Spanish speaking kids.
There were advantaged, suburban kids in this study.
And they found that kids really did learn from the show And the more you watch, the more they learned and the more they knew, which was pretty great.
Yeah, that was season one, right?
So they went back and said, let's figure out if this worked.
There was a 2013 study that kind of recreated it intentionally or otherwise but rather than looking at the United States, they took it on an international scale.
And it was a meta analysis of 24 studies that had been conducted on the effects of Sesame Street And all combined, this meta -analysis looks at 10 ,000 children in 15 different countries.
So it was a pretty robust study.
And they found the same thing, that there were significant positives associated with kids watching Sesame Street.
And that kids who watched more, performed better in school.
And that this effect carried, no matter the income level of the country, low -income, middle -income, high -income country, doesn't matter.
The effects were the same.
and it hit three different outcomes.
Cognitive outcomes, learning about the world and social reasoning.
And basically, it just turned every single one of these 10 ,000 children into a super child.
Yeah, there was one well, which is why they have the S on their chest, right?
Sesame Street, another study I thought this one was pretty striking to me because they could actually do a fairly direct AB comparison.
The American Economic Journal for Melissa Kearney and Phillip Levine did a study because they were like, hey, wait a minute.
In those early years, there were UHF stations and VHF stations, and some areas had some and then a couple of neighborhoods over, they may not have the same access.
So they could literally compare districts and elementary schools and outcomes with people who did not have the show at all and people who had it.
And they found that the show actually did improve outcomes and that the positive effect of the show was particularly pronounced for boys and black non -Hispanic children and children who grew up in other counties who had economic disadvantage.
So it was literally helping and targeting the kids that they were hoping to target while also being good for everyone overall.
Yeah, and one specific outcome I saw just for an example in that study was that the kids who watched Sesame Street were 14 % more likely to be in an age appropriate grade in middle school or high school, so they hadn't been held back or they were 14 % likely to have not been held back than kids who didn't watch it.
Yeah, it's pretty great.
Yeah, it's statistically significant.
Yeah, this is a pretty good quote too.
The New Republic, their quote is, that Sesame Street was essentially the first Mo 'ak massive online open course, providing educational content to viewers for free.
And a 2015 white paper from the Early Childhood Education group said it's one of the largest and least costly interventions.
Yeah. And you might be like, well New Republic is pretty liberal rag of course, they like Sesame Street.
We found a quote from the National Review which is pretty conservative.
And the National Review called Sesame Street the one great thing accomplished by LBJ's great society, which is a hilarious quote.
And that was in 2021.
Just one thing. Hey, it's good for Sesame Street though.
Yeah, that's what I was saying.
Everybody loves Sesame Street.
So I guess we'll press on Chuck and plug in to the rest of the world because like we said, shows up in 150 to 170 countries and there's at least 30 co -productions around the world and it turns out they're really fun to read about and talk about.
They really are because like you said, depending on the country, they're gonna tailor it for their country and have characters that reflect things kids might recognize.
So if you go to Israel, and watch Oscar the Grouch, you'll see that Oscar's name, Moishe Oufnik, pretty good name, it means grouch in Hebrew.
Yeah, but you probably won't see Oscar the Grouch or Count Von Count in Afghanistan.
Afghanistan has its own co -production, called My Best Attempt is Bhaksh -e -Simsim, They have cultural taboos against trash and vampirism so Oscar and The Count don't really translate to the Afghani version of Sesame Street.
The Sim Sims. Right.
I wonder if that's their theme.
Yeah, there's Sesame in Arabic or Arabic -like languages, or Arabic -related languages, Sim Sim or Sum Sum seems to be what Sesame is.
Yeah, I think so. So if you ever run across a trivia question that says, what is sesame in Arabic, you better say simsim.
Yeah, S -I -M -S -I -M, the spelling counts.
One word. If you go to the UK and you said cookie monster, they'd say, I think you mean biscuit monster, of course, cause biscuits are cookies over there.
And if you go to Latin America, you might not see big bird, but you might see Abelardo, who is big bird's cousin.
It's a giant parrot.
Yeah, so you got like different characters or the same characters with different names or characters that just don't show up, but there's also characters that are just totally new.
And they kind of follow the original Sesame Street's program of like, let's include people who are stigmatized or left out.
And so the South African version of Sesame Street, Takalani, yeah, I don't know why I had trouble saying that, Takalani Sesame.
Delicious. Yeah, they included a character named Kami.
Kami is based on the word Kamo -Gelo which means acceptance in some South African indigenous languages, like Zulu.
And the reason they did that is because Kami is a HIV -positive orphan of a mother with AIDS who died.
And this is a muppet who is basically playing with other muppets to show little kids that you don't have to be fearful of having a friend who is HIV positive.
It's not dangerous to play with them.
And in South Africa that was very controversial because a lot of people have HIV in South Africa, but it's still very stigmatized.
So of course Sesame Street in South Africa was like, let's get commie in there.
They could probably have an American version of that same character or at least in the eighties.
They could. I read that there was a letter written by a small panel of congress people to PBS basically That's actually saying don't even think about it.
Oh boy. Since 98, there's been an Israeli Palestinian co -production which is super unique obviously called Rakhov's Tsum Tsum.
Oh yeah, or Shahra's Tsum Tsum like he said.
And this is a pretty great.
It's Israeli and Palestinian kids together and they're from separate streets but they get together and hang out and play and talk and when they do, the language, either Hebrew or Arabic is translated in subtitles into the other language and they weren't just like, oh let's just pat ourselves on the back of this.
They were trying to accomplish something so they measured outcomes again and did studies and they found that watching the show made kids in that area more likely to use positive terms to describe kids on the other side of that conflict.
And Sesame Street. We should just say that after every great thing we talk about them doing.
Yeah, you know, actually there's a quote that kind of goes along with that.
Andrew S. Natsios who led USAID under George W.
Bush, he said the Arabic language version of the show was the quote, biggest weapon against Al -Qaeda and Islamic extremism.
Yeah, I thought about that too, that like you're using Sesame Street to spread essentially global, good, basic human values, in places where those are sometimes in short supply, you know.
Yeah. I think that's cool.
And then that one, the Arabic version you just mentioned, it's called Al -An, Simsim.
They use that in Syrian refugee camps because little kids in Syrian refugee camps, schools were canceled because the government dropped chemical weapons on their town.
But they're still getting to watch this Arabic version of Sesame Street to make sure that they're not left behind.
Yeah, and since we're here, before we break, we might as well mention that the Sesame workshop is a nonprofit that gets part of their funding through the US Federal Government through the USAID program.
And just a couple of months ago, the current administration announced that obviously USAID, and by the way, episode coming up on that soon on that organization, is being cut at the behest of the Department of Government Efficiency.
So, Sesame Street is gonna lose a lot of funding and the current president said the Arabic language version was part of hundreds of billions of dollars of fraud.
But the good news is that it accounts for only 4 % of their total funding.
So hopefully, I mean, they were pretty much called off guard or scrambling a bit, but hopefully that it's not like the end of Sesame Street.
No, I saw in real dollars about five million dollars, but the problem is that still a significant like, like they're operating at a deficit.
So they basically need every dollar they can get.
So it's still hitting them.
Four percent even matters.
Yes. So I think in March 2025, they announced that they were having to lay off employees, which is not something that happens all the time at Sesame Street, although I'm sure they've tackled it plenty of times.
Yeah, maybe there's an episode about it Probably.
Should we take a break?
What I just want to throw out one more we talked about the Afghani version of Sesame Street in 2016 They have featured they debuted a girl muppet named Zari Who goes to school wearing a hijab?
Yeah, pretty great.
Yep. Take that Taliban.
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Just go to squarespace .com slash stuff and you can get a free trial and when you're ready to launch use our offer code stuff StuFF to save 10 % off your first purchase of a website or a domain So, Chuck, before we broke, I was talking about how Sesame Street probably has tackled the episode of being fired, parent being fired, right?
and the reason why is cause they have a long history of tackling tough topics that date back pretty far.
I think in 1982, that's usually where people trace the origin of Sesame Street, just taking on very adult themed episodes that kids sometimes have to deal with head on with the death of Mr. Hooper, Grand Hooper's store.
Yeah. I mean, I have a hard time even talking about this one.
It was 1982 Actor, Will Lee, who played Mr. Hooper passed away in IRL.
And they were like, let's not replace him.
Let's use this as an opportunity to teach kids about death and grief.
And Big Bird, they aired it on Thanksgiving so parents were more likely to be home.
They got together, again, they weren't just like, hey, let's just have the writers whip something up.
They got together with religious leaders and child psychologists to kind of figure out the best way to do this.
And they decided on Big Bird kind of taking the lead and saying very sadly, I wanna give Mr. Hooper a picture that I drew when he comes back, and that's when they're like, big bird, I've got some bad news for you, my friend.
Yeah, Gordon famously rolled his eyes.
Yeah, he's not coming back, death is permanent, and it was a huge, huge deal for not just Sesame Street, but just how we talk to kids about this kind of thing, you know?
Yeah because it took kids seriously as you know thinking feeling individuals because they discussed replacing him with a new Mr. Hooper and just pretending like it wasn't a different actor or saying Mr. Hooper retired and he's not coming back but he's retired not dead and they're like no let's let's use this opportunity It is really tear -jerking to watch Yeah in 1985 another big lesson came along when, if you haven't seen the show, Mr. Snuffleupagus is this sort of big, I don't even know what you call it, kind of a big, long -haired, monstery thing.
It kinda touched a woolly mammoth, I think.
But big bird, Snuffleupagus was Big Bird's imaginary friend, and the adults couldn't see this imaginary friend, and in that episode, he was seen by the rest of the cast, and they were like, hey, maybe this could inspire kids who are maybe child abuse victims that you don't need to fear that adults won't believe you if you reveal something to them.
And so, you know, they tackle it through snuffleupagus all of a sudden becoming a real thing to the adults on the show.
Yeah, because he always had been real, but anytime Big Bird tried to introduce some people, he would just not be there for some reason or another.
So he was real and when they apologized to him, I think Bob, the music teacher said, will believe you whenever you tell us something from now on, Big Bird. Like, they really kind of drove it home, beat the little kids over the head with this.
They also tackled 9 -11, not in a direct way by like, talking about the Pentagon and the Twin Towers, but it was a show very clearly centered around kids in dealing with a big sort of shared tragedy and how they might go about that.
Oh, let's see, what else?
another part of that too is there was a fire at Hooper's store they didn't show the fire it's just off screen they mentioned it they referenced it happening and some firefighters show up to put it out and Elmo is just freaked out by this so the firefighters stop and like comfort him and tell him it's okay and they help deal with that kind of um I don't know I think the the message was listen to firefighters because they're all right yeah great message Kids love fire trucks anyway, so they're halfway there.
Right. They also dealt with like kids who have parents in the military that are off at war at one point.
They've had episodes on hurricanes and like dealing with a natural disaster like that.
And they even dealt with the COVID -19 pandemic in 2020 cause kids were at home watching a lot of TV and their parents were pretty stressed out.
So they had a special episode all about COVID.
Yeah, including when the vaccines came out, Big Bird and I think everybody else got vaccinated.
Big Bird had a bandaid on his wings, he said my wing hurts a little bit, but other than that, I'm okay.
Yeah, so you mentioned the problems with the funding.
It started in the mid 80s, they had reports that expenses were gonna outpace revenues perhaps.
They do a lot of licensing, I think about two thirds of their revenue comes from licensing, licensing to like books and toys and things.
The monster at the end of this book is a classic children's book with Grover as the center character.
My favorite Grover book, one of my favorite books growing up was Grover and the Everything in the World Museum.
Did you ever read that one?
Uh -uh. It might've been after your time, but I loved that book.
The drawing in there is so great.
And it's just, it's all Grover.
Yeah. They've been talking about, you know, the recent cuts are one thing, but they've been talking about, you know, reducing funding and have reduced funding somewhat over the years.
For a long time though, I believe 2015 they were operating at a loss maybe for the first time, and so HBO stepped up and said, hey, you know what, if you give us a jump on PBS, we'll pay you some pretty good money.
So they got the episodes nine months before PBS, but in December of last year of 2024 Warner Brothers Discovery said, you know what, we're not gonna do that deal anymore.
We can license backup episodes still, or we want to still.
But the deal has concluded, and I think that also put them in a bit of a money bind.
Yeah, so I guess HBO Max agreed to take season 25, which is currently out now, but they're not taking season 56.
And the Sesame Workshop's like, well, we're still going to make a season 56, who wants to buy new episodes, brand new episodes of Sesame Street?
So it's up for auction right now.
I didn't see any interested buyers, but I mean, the idea of Sesame Street just going away because no one's gonna put it on the air is mind bogglingly sad to me and I just don't think it's gonna happen.
Hmm, a stuff you should know production.
There you go. Do you have like, A hundred money together.
100 million bucks or something, what would that cost?
I don't know, but I'll bet we could get it out of Jerry.
I don't know, I don't think it's gonna be 100 million bucks because that's like all of their operating costs for a year.
And I mean, they get a lot of their money from licensing toys and pajamas and all that stuff.
So when you buy those things you're actually directly helping Sesame Street.
I'll get my pajamas.
Yeah, I'll bet we could get it for 20 million right now.
The problem is Chuck is we don't have anywhere to show it.
I think that's a big obstacle we would have to overcome as well.
Oh we could cut a deal.
Okay, well, God knows how much that's gonna cost us but we'll figure it out.
Maybe we should finish up with some sort of random sort of factoids that you might wanna share with your friends.
Here's a pretty fun stat.
The characters on Sesame Street are some of the most recognizable in the world, and certainly in the US.
75 % of people under 55 told a YouGov poll that they even have a favorite character.
Do you wanna know the top 10, in order?
Sure. Guess, who's your favorite?
We never said who our favorites were.
I don't remember. I used to like the count.
Yeah, he's great. One, two, three.
That's a good count.
Cookie Monster is number one.
Elmo is number two.
Big Bird's number three, which I guess makes sense.
Grover, number four, Grover is my favorite.
The count, Mr. Stuffleupagus, Ernie and then Burt and then Abby which is a newer, a newer character I think, I'm not sure when she came along.
And then the last one, number 10, is Other.
My favorite, so the title, if you're wondering where that came from, it was from Alibaba and the 40 Thieves, Open Sesame.
Cooney is on record saying that that was probably the least bad title and we thought, you know, Open Sesame, we felt like we were opening children to knowledge and education so, so it's kind of a weird little origin, but it just, I can't think of it as anything else.
Yeah, and lucky for them it translates pretty well in Arabic, simsim.
What was the Mexican version called that had a great name?
Plaza Sesamo. I love that.
Yeah, I do too. Can you tell me how to get there, though?
Well, I'm glad you brought that up.
I was looking up stuff about the theme song.
It turns out there's not much interesting about it other than it debuted on the first episode and has been, you know, toyed with or altered here or there over the years but it's the same theme song in every episode of Sesame Street.
Yeah. ten million episodes.
We got to shout out the writers, the music by Joe Reposo and lyrics by Reposo and John Stone and Bruce Hart.
Pretty great. That was nice of you.
And then did we talk about Tickle Me Elmo?
Well no, this is the third act reveal.
Okay. Okay, so we talked about Elmo be suddenly becoming very famous.
The reason why is because in 1996, the Tickle Me Elmo doll became like the must have Christmas toy.
And I know we've talked about it in one of our Christmas episodes, but let's just briefly mention it again.
Yeah, I mean, thank you Rosie O 'Donnell for this one.
Tickle Me Elmo came on Rosie O 'Donnell and it was a big, big deal.
This may have been a Black Friday episode thing too, because trying to buy those Elmos at the time was a was a thing there was there was stampeding people went to the hospital there were people selling them on the black market for like really high prices mm -hmm so Elmo was a overnight sensation like you know 16 years after or I guess 12 years after his debut yeah 14 years it come it also Elmo is the only non human to testify before Congress that's right on behalf of music education in school.
I got two more things.
I just wanted to call out Julia, a four -year -old Muppet with autism who's been around since 2017, and then apparently this year season 55, one of the big themes that they're tackling are big feelings and kids dealing with them, and they're even debuting a new Muppet who's teaching kids like breathing techniques to calm themselves down.
That's great. And then the last thing I have is if you want a little dose of nostalgia, go watch the full compilation of the pinball count songs.
Remember those? No. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12.
Man, I don't remember that.
It came out in 76. So yeah, you probably have moved on to electric company by then.
You're like, that's baby stuff.
It's great, you should watch it.
The animation in it is beautiful.
Beautifully 70s, it's great.
Yeah, I love it. You got anything else?
Yeah. In 2005 there was a bit of a stir because Cookie Monster was known for just ravaging cookies and stuffing them in his face and crumbs flying everywhere and that's the beauty of Cookie Monster.
But people were like, maybe it's not such a good idea to have a character that's just binge eating sugar and sweets and treats.
So they use Cookie Monster as a impulse control model for moderation.
And a cookie became a sometimes food from Cookie Monster.
and of course people are gonna be like, what are you kidding me?
Is this gonna be vegemonster next?
And there were letter -writing campaigns and there was a petition and all this stuff and vegemonster was never gonna be a thing.
They were just, I guess they just filed those complaint letters in the circular file and I was like, settle down everybody.
I got one more I overlooked, do you wanna hear it?
Sure. This is Arkane but tele, remember tele -monster we talked about?
Yes, but no. Okay, so Telly has a hamster named Chucky Sue, and he used to have a stuffed animal horse named Clark.
Oh, how about that?
Yeah. Pretty unique, huh?
Yeah. Total coincidence, too, is from the 90's, both of them.
Yeah, just like that Henson app just coming out.
Yeah, lots of Kermit.
Kermit. Since I said Kermit, of course everybody, that means it's time for listener mail.
Yeah, this is a little bit on libraries from Name Redacted.
Hey guys, I love the Mini on alternative libraries.
I'm a member of the board at my local library and my wife is a school librarian.
I want to salute and celebrate our librarians who are largely thought of as old ladies with buns and cat -eye -glasses, but they are actually on the front lines of the fight for the First Amendment in many ways.
My local library has a teen room, whose librarian is collecting the LGTBQ books discarded by other libraries because of certain bad actors.
The librarian at the high school I work has sent RED cards telling our heavily immigrant population what to say if ICE immigrants show up at their door or stop them on the way to school.
And apparently, his wife, the librarian, has to really get involved in reference searches these days because of book banning and just getting rid of certain educational proposals, so one of her favorite t -shirts says, What is more punk than the local library?
So, thanks, guys, for all you do, and keep it up, and that is from Nameredacted.
Thanks, Nameredacted.
I know we talked about that some in our Banned Books episode.
Yeah. But yes, we can't say it enough.
God bless librarians for making sure that people are educated as we can be for free.
That's right. Perfect fit for this episode, too.
Uh, yeah I thought so too.
Uh, well if you want to get in touch with us like Nameredacted did, you can tell us your name or not.
Doesn't matter. We'll clearly protect you.
Uh, you can send it via email, probably encrypted if you want, to stuffpodcast .ihartradio .com.
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