Hello and welcome to Women in Retail Talks, the podcast where C-suite executive women in the retail space share their stories of professional growth leadership development, personal journeys and more.
I'm Marie Albajaz, Managing Editor of Women in Retail, a membership-based community of executive women at leading retailers and brands.
Today I'm coming to you live from ShopTalk in Las Vegas, where I'm sitting down with Fiona Tan, the Chief Technology Officer at Wayfair.
Fiona oversees a global innovation team responsible for creating market-leading experiences through its world-class e-commerce platform, which we will talk about.
All of that and more.
So, Fiona, welcome.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, I'm so glad you're here.
You know we're sitting here in the Women in Retail Pavilion and last year at the pavilion you were asked what are the biggest opportunities that you see for technology in retail.
And at the time, you know, March of 2025, you answered generative artificial intelligence and large language models capabilities, which seems pretty accurate in hindsight, a year later.
But I'll ask you now, is that still the case?
Are those still the opportunities that you see in retail?
And if so, why?
If not, why not?
Yeah, I know.
I think a lot of it is still that.
I think the generative capabilities and the models keep getting better.
So in a way, much more that you can do with it.
So, if you look at from the point of view of multimodal capabilities, imagery and video has come a long way since last year the ability for the models to be able to understand and do more.
And I think probably the one thing I would add on to what I said last year is just the agent capabilities.
So the models, being able to take a lot of information, do a bunch of reasoning and also take actions.
And so as you look at that landscape, it's like how do you also then adapt to be able to play well in an agent-enabled environment or system?
Right,
So you think about AI is now much more the system than a point solution.
And I think that's where the movement is towards high level.
Walk us through how you're adapting all of that at Wayfair.
I mean, let's just go with the last year or so.
Yeah, what are some of the kind of higher level things that you want people to know about, how you guys are using all of that?
The really neat thing about the capabilities is, I think there's a wide range of applicability.
So the way we've been thinking about how do we How do we go after it?
We look at the customer experience and what are the capabilities that we can leverage to give our customers a better experience, as they're inspirationally, as they're coming in, they're shopping outside.
How do we make it easier for them to visualize the items that they want to buy?
How do we enable them to have a conversation with us if that's helpful? so we're really focusing on how do we leverage these capabilities to build out next generation really targeted beautiful immersive experiences scale the home category which again it's I'll characterize one of the hardest to shop online, right?
And if you think about search files and filters were pretty much what we had for a long time.
And now, I think, the capabilities that are available from the understanding and reasoning and the large language models, the multimodal capabilities.
So we're really focusing on that area.
The second area I would say is the operational excellence within the organization.
How do we level up, right?
Our technology organization.
How are we leveraging the best of the agentic coding capabilities so we can lift up and do more across the enterprise?
How do we make sure that our catalog is enriched?
And there's a lot of really interesting things that we can do there so that it can better represent the product that we're selling for customers to be able to understand.
And at the end of the day, it's a matchmaking process.
And so how do we focus on that?
And then the third, which I think has come about much more so recently too, is the how do we play in the sort of ecosystem?
How do I make sure that I show up well on the AI native platforms and help drive what that looks like as well, because we want to meet customers where they're at.
They're starting to do more research on the AI native platforms.
Some may want to do some amount of commerce also on the AI native platform.
So how do I lean into that?
So I would say, for me anyways, that's how we're kind of structuring it and we're going out to each one of those areas and doing work using AI.
So going back to enhancing the customer experience, what does that look like practically for the consumer as they're shopping on Wayfair?
Yeah, so we're actually.
Our CEO is going to be speaking a little bit later on, so there's a little sizzle reel that we're showcasing, but we've been experimenting with this for quite some time, right.
We started with Discover and then Muse, but basically it's like how do I take this very difficult problem of visualizing real world items in your space?
And so that's the thing where I feel like the technology is advancing and we're able to leverage it more, so that it's now becoming very close to being a reality, right.
So being able to say, hey, I don't know what style I want, so I'll see it.
I'll know it when I see it.
So I've got to see a few things.
You've got to show it to me.
But then when I see it, I want to see how it looks like in my room.
But and I also want to make sure that these are real shoppable products, because you don't want to just show someone something, something very aspirational, that they can't buy.
So everything that we do, we want to ground in our catalog and our selection but also still enable our customers to be able to visualize it.
So i think that's going to be an amazing unlock and we're we're very close to launching.
Did you think five, ten years ago in your career that the home space and just retail would be where it's at today when it comes to AI?
Like, did you imagine that this would be where we were?
No, yeah, I don't think I did.
I think we were.
We've always been leveraging AI traditional AI predictive ML, AI to make a lot of decisions.
Predictions that would help us.
So in a way, this isn't completely new to us, but I think just the, the capabilities and how quickly they're evolving is at a pace that's really amazing.
And we've talked about before.
When we used to think about personalization, it was like okay, you segment customers into buckets and then you speak to that bucket in a certain way.
And now, with the capabilities we have, you can really get to a point where it's truly one-to-one personalization.
So I think it's exciting to see the pace of innovation.
And I feel like this time last year the refrain or the mantra was like just test just.
You know we're in the infancy stage.
Like everybody, just needs to test AI, see what works.
And I feel like we're a little bit beyond that, you know, let's just test mantra.
How do you as CTO decide what new technologies to pursue?
And, you know, how do we chase trends?
How do we not chase trends?
How do you decide all of that?
Yeah, so it you know, I think suddenly for me it's like grounding it on still that what are the?
You know we want to make sure that we're helping customers find the perfect item for their home, and so you kind of staying true to that and then looking what are the tools that enable that?
Right and so, and also there may be areas where we will want to test.
I think testing.
I would encourage everybody still continue testing.
But I might do that with a smaller team and just say hey, tell me if there's a there there, and if it is, then I'll look at scaling it out.
But we also know sort of what the problems are we want to go after.
So it's always going to be much more again, kind of grounded on what are the problem sets that we want to enable.
And again, enabling customers to find the most perfect item for their home.
So we use that as a sort of like you know, kind of governor, of kind of what are the things that we look at that will enable us to do that?
And also just what allows us to build on the things that we have our data, our fulfillment center capabilities, etc.
How do we enhance those things?
Those are the technologies I'll be looking at as well.
How do you encourage your teams to test and innovate while also staying grounded to the mission?
What's that balance there?
Yeah, so I think we always want to be making sure that you're testing and intervening within the grounding of the mission, for sure, and encouraging and making sure that they have tools available to them to be able to do that.
It's been something that we invest in and that's actually not just for the technology team but really for everyone in the company.
Early on we gave everybody a license to chat GPTA and Gemini and just to play around with it.
There's nothing better than just getting experience and you want to definitely do that.
And so just giving people the tooling to be able to do it, enterprise versions of it so they can feel safe about asking questions or being able to leverage the tools.
So that's what we started doing fairly early on, and now we're continuing to scale that because I think it's such a powerful capability and it's changing.
That's the other thing, and that's why I think we still need to test, because even if you tested something and didn't work or the capability wasn't quite there last month, like test again in about a month because the timelines are so much shorter now too.
So you kind of you do that experimentation mindset has to still to be there.
I have a hard time imagining that this is the case at such an innovative company like Wayfair.
But What happens?
Or is there a case where you have team members who maybe aren't as on board with the testing and with these new technologies?
What do you do in that case?
How do you motivate them?
Yeah, I think.
A lot of it's also just reminding them that, especially as technologists, the landscape's always changing, but also being empathetic.
It is changing faster than probably most people have seen in their lifetimes.
And so a lot of it's around like, hey look, the roles are changing and what you need to do to be successful and the tools that you have are also changing.
So you have to leverage them because otherwise you're sort of handicapping yourself.
And so a lot of it is around change management and making sure that number one you got to make the tools available, making sure that they feel supported, having the trading materials available to people, but then also kind of setting ambitious goals so that we're kind of like you have to leverage these new tools I'm giving you in order to be able to reach the milestones that we would like you to reach.
And so it's a combination of many things.
But yeah, it's a really exciting time, but it is also one where I think Everyone needs to lean into change.
And that's one of the things I've been encouraging my team to do is just don't be afraid of it.
Lean into it.
And again, don't be afraid to experiment.
And that's the only way you're going to really learn.
It's just so quick.
And I feel like the retailers that are doing it right are the ones that are no longer considering themselves just a retailer.
To me, Wayfair is a technology company.
Did you see that mindset kind of shift at some point?
Yeah, we've always been a very a tech-forward retailer, because I think you want to make sure that we're leveraging technology as much as possible, but also I'm also very clear that we are also a retailer.
I exist to make sure that you can find the most perfect item for your home.
So you want to use tech as much as you can in service of that mission.
And so we've always been doing that.
And, as I said, being digitally native, I think we've always leaned more into tech than most retailers, or just because that was part of our DNA.
So that's been a little bit, maybe more of a natural sort of transition for us, but I do think and I'm seeing that more and more I think retailers that may not have had the same background, they're also leaning in and being much more curious about how you can leverage technology right.
So we're at Shop Talk, you know, the biggest retail trade show in the country or of the year.
And you are one of Very few female chief technology officers.
Your intelligence is just astounding when it comes to technology.
I'm very impressed.
So my question is, as you're in this space, where I'm sure the majority of your counterparts are men, What do you say to the women who aspire to?
You know, be on that stage as CTO.
You know trading ShopTalk with other you know, mostly men.
Yeah.
No, I think.
Suddenly, the first thing I would say is that you're absolutely able and capable of doing it right.
So I think that's the part where you have the confidence because I think it's there.
In fact, I feel like there's a lot of things that we know about shopping and retail that are just personally interesting for us and we should definitely lean into it.
And that are overlooked, right?
When it comes to the bureaucracy of it, yeah.
And I think personally, for me too, sometimes it's like being in a room you don't always have to have the highest volume, the most voluminous of interactions, but just having clarity is good.
And I do think too, as you look at CTOs, and it's been something that has always thought to be true.
In my career, at least, it's been a mantra that I've lived by, which is I want to make sure that I'm always deep in my craft from a technology perspective, but there was always a curiosity and I felt like it was always very important that we need to understand the business and the product landscape and why we're doing what we're doing.
What are we leveraging tech for?
And so that's been what's guided me.
And I think actually now, given the way technology is, I would say even more so it's becoming much more of almost a requirement that we're bilingual, that we're all around it.
And sort of leaning into that is also something I would definitely encourage women to do and just embrace that.
Because I think you do need.
You're fully capable of being very, very stick in technology, but also be very, very curious about the business.
Because if you can, you know your craft, you can influence, you can play a big role and influence the business and strategy of the companies.
And especially now that's going to be so important.
And then, because you know the business and the strategy, you can make sure that you're looking for the right ways to fly technology.
So it's really symbiotic.
I would definitely ask people to lean into that.
How do you think that the role of the CTO will change over the next, I don't know, five, 10 years?
Yeah, I think it's going to continue to be that.
I think CTOs will need to be more well-rounded.
It's not just about the pipes and sort of things which you might think are a little bit more backend.
I think you do need to be front and center and you do need to be able to again understand the craft well enough and the capabilities that are available now.
Cause I think the trajectory of the business could change, right?
And I would say actually maybe not could change.
I think it will change because of how the tech is evolving.
And so being able to understand that well and be able to help make sure that you're evolving the strategy as it makes sense to make the business as successful and relevant as possible is going to be important.
And again, I think just being really plugged in on both sides is going to be, I think, a requirement for CTOs moving forwards.
So it sounds like just constantly evolve and be open to change.
Really.
I mean, really leaning into it.
I think it's an exciting time, you know, and I think it's OK to just also say that hey, there's some things I don't know.
And let's go learn.
Right.
Let's go discover.
Let's be curious.
So what's the next big thing that you're excited about at Wayfair?
I think we have a bunch of things that we're working on.
Certainly, I think, some of the things that we mentioned around what's the next evolution in the shopping journey for our customers and where can we help and lean into it?
Again, I think there's a lot of really interesting things.
Leveraging the ability to visualize your room, your home, in different ways is going to be is going to be, I think, game changing for our customers hopefully so and being able to interact and be able to.
You know again, just at the end of the day, you want to be able to have confidence that you're finding the right item because it's your home, it's emotional, it's your space.
And I'm excited about being able to bring that to the next level for our shoppers.
And then last question, we're still at the beginning of Shop Talk.
So what are you kind of really looking out for this week?
Yeah, I think there's obviously everybody that's involved in retail and technology for retail are here.
And so a lot of it's going to be talking to different partners, right?
So we've got different partners that are here.
It'd be interesting to hear what gets announced here.
There's always some of that right exciting to see.
I mean, shoptalk's always done a really nice job of curating the content, so i'm excited to to be able to take part in the next couple days.
Okay well uh fiona, we are out of time.
Thank you so much for for joining me on the podcast and the best of luck this week at shoptalk, thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Thanks for listening.
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