Hello and welcome to World Today, I'm Dinhyeonn in Beijing.
Coming up, China, Canada, and the Mexico vow swerve the responses to Donald Trump's tariffs.
China's annual trade in services exceeds US $1 trillion last year showing growth potential.
America's top diplomat has made new noises about the so -called Chinese influence over the Panama Canal.
And Qatar has called for a swift start to second phase of Gaza ceasefire negotiations.
To listen to this episode again or to catch upon our previous episodes, you can download our podcast by searching World Today.
China has condemned the U .S.
move to impose tariffs on China.
China's Public Security Ministry has voiced strong opposition to the 10 percent additional tariff on imports from China under the pretext of national -related issues.
China's Commerce Ministry also says it will file a lawsuit with the World Trade Organization and take countermeasures.
U .S. President Donald Trump is imposing broader tariffs on some major U .S.
trading partners including Canada, Mexico, and China.
Canada, on its part, says the first phase of its responses to US tariffs will come into effect on Tuesday.
And for your information, the Canadian federal government has already unveiled a list of goods subject to 30 billion Canadian dollars or some 21 billion US dollars that includes beverages, cosmetics, and paper products.
The European Commission, in the meantime, has also criticized Donald Trump's tariffs on these three countries.
So, for more on this, my colleague Zhao Yang spoke with Dr. Zhou Mi, Senior Research Fellow with the Chinese Academy of International Trade and Economic Cooperation.
Thank you very much for joining us.
U .S. President Donald Trump has ordered new tariffs on Canada, Mexico, and China.
So, how do you view this move?
What's your analysis of his consequence?
Well, it is not so surprising to me because when he joined the election last year, he mentioned he will post tariffs on other countries.
As we can see from his first term eight years ago, he post a lot of tariffs on other countries, one to show his very strong and tough position and force other countries to just follow his ideas.
So, when he is doing that, I think that he is just trying to do the same, the similar practices like the first term.
He want other countries to follow his ideas.
So when we are talking about this move, I think that is something to do with some of the drug control and that is something that he believes that other countries are not just trying to do march to help United States to overcome this crisis, but I don't think that it's a very good practices because when he is doing that, there will be a lot of reactions.
So the additional tariffs are rarely big issues for the international trade, especially when the United States is doing that with the top three trade countries with, you know, Mexico, Canada, and China.
So I don't think it's rarely a good and a wise choice and other countries will also do something to try to fight against the United States.
And then who will pay for Trump's tariffs.
Economists say this could slow the U .S.
economic growth and push up the U .S.
domestic inflation.
What's your take? Yes, I believe it is true that when the additional tariffs are posted on the imports, the goods that the United States – I mean the stakeholders of the consumers of some of the factories from other countries will get a higher cost.
And when the tariffs are put in these goods, they have to pay more.
Maybe it is not only about 10 % or even 25%, it is even more, because the supply chains will amplify this cost and trying to move on or the following part of the supply chains.
Though the consumers are already facing too many pressures on the inflation in the previous several years and U .S.
government has put a lot of strength to control the inflation.
But in my understanding, the shortage of the supply is one of the main reasons why there are not so good prices.
So the consumers need to pay even more after you know the slowdown of the economy in the previous years and they have to work harder to benefit from you know their income, but when the trade is not just one -way, we have to understand that if United States has enough capacities of manufacturing more goods, they have to fund other markets.
So the Canada, Mexico, and also China are also the main exporting destination of the United States.
So if they are not able to access to those markets, the people there in the United States must suffer from them also.
And for China's response, China's Ministry of Commerce said China will file a legal case against the U .S.
as a war trade organization, and the ministry also said China will take corresponding countermeasures to safeguard its rights and interests.
So could you explain more on China's response?
Well, that is on the two direction.
The first one is in the multilateral system.
We We know that in WTO, all the members are, you know, they have the commitment to WTO that if they are some disputes, they will try to find some solutions from WTO and WTO will also assign experts team or the panel to decide who is, you know, guilty, who is not.
So China is trying to, as one of the former members of WTO, we want to address these problems through this mechanism, the dispute settlement mechanism.
So we filed some compliments in the WTO and asked the experts in the WTO, not from China, not from the United States but from the very special experts to decide the practice of the United States is rising or not rising.
If the WTO said that it is not right, the United States should try to change its actions.
If the United States will not change their actions other countries, I mean the compliant countries or members like China will do something as you know the counter measures to also to fight against United States that is the first direction and the second I think that China is independent country and very important country we have our law the law of the foreign trade we will account to these laws to practice more to trying to stop the harm to our exporters I mean based on the fear competition rules.
So that is another crisis.
I think that Chinese government is trying to address the challenges in both sides.
And the White House says the tariffs are being implemented in order to tackle the fentanyl crisis in the US.
Does it have any foundation?
China has actually taken significant steps, being the first country to schedule all fentanyl -related substance in 2019, right?
Yes, it is true. We're taking it very serious about anti -drug actions.
In the Chinese society, you can find that in every part of China, it is illegal and it is strictly forbidden by the laws, and when we are put in some crimes to do with drugs, they are very strict.
Actually, China taking it very serious that we watch can true that drug abuition and illicit can operate.
So we have made up this mechanism in the year of several years ago and that is also in the first term of Donald Trump.
So when the U .S. said that it is a problem, that they want to do it, want to deal it with China, we are as a responsible country, we think that is also reasonable.
For example, we can cooperate with United States, but that is not the main reason I have to say.
Because US domestic regulations and also the policies are the main reasons for the fountain problems or crisis in the United States.
They do not have enough power and also the enforcement of the laws and the regulation are not so good.
So we want to cooperate with them to try and to prevent more the flow of the products to with the antennae and other networks, the products.
But we need to see that we can do it together.
It's not just from one direction, we cannot solve this problem by ourselves.
Because it is a problem of the United States itself.
They should start from themselves.
And take a look at the Mexico and Canada.
Mexico and Canada immediately vowed to retaliate against a tariff imposed by the US.
Canada will retaliate by imposing 25 % tariffs on the US goods.
So what will be the consequence of imposing tariffs on the US goods?
Well, the Canada, United States and Mexico are the first integration areas in the world in the year of 1993 or 1994.
So after almost 30 years, we know that integration in these regions are so tight.
So the export from the United States to Canada and the Mexico are taking very big share of its export and also vice versa is also true.
So we know that's the import from the, you know, the Canada are taking very serious part in the United States in certain sectors and the export of United States products to Canada are also very important.
So when they are going to do that, to put more tariffs, I mean, when Canada trying to restrict the input from United States, like from the whiskey and also to the orange juice, they said it is a really important part of their conception, but they want to do more independently and they want to consume their own products.
It may be not so comfortable when they are going to do that at first, but if the provinces, all the provinces of Canada are trying to do that together, I think it really has some impacts on the exporters of the United States.
Well, for Mexico, it's another story because in Mexico, there are so many US companies are doing an investment there.
They built up the manufacturers and factories there, and they produce the products and then export it to the United States Market.
When the tariffs are there, these companies are not so good.
They have to do something to reduce the impact on the tariffs by both sides.
So I think that for the most integrated region in world, if there are so many tariffs, it's a real signal that it's a warning the world that how dangerous the protectanisms will be to stop the function of the market and trying to spoil the actions of the natural reactions of the market.
And Trump has also pledged to impose duties on the EU in the coming days.
So, Dr. Zhou, how do you think will Trump's tariffs affect the U .S.
relations with his trading partners, Mexico, Canada, China and the EU?
We know that the U .S.
maybe they are important in the international supply chain as you know, big consumption market, but they have to depend on the export too.
So, I don't think that the trade is everything that United States have the relation with other partners like EU, Canada, Mexico and China.
But they do have a lot of other issues to do with that technology transfer and also the cooperation in the labors and also a lot of things to do with the investments.
So when the trade becomes more tension, I think that relation may be not so good also because the investors may think that the relations will be even worse when the trade are blocked and there are more restrictions on other issues.
and the criteria is, the international standards and also the agreements are not so easy to be fulfilled after the relations have come worse.
So I think that maybe the other countries and also the partners will think about whether it should be the time that they discuss something that maybe they're not involving the United States and trying to do more for the better integration and do not suffer so much by the interrupt of the U .S.
involvement in the international supply chains.
Well, for the EU, I think they are really are very serious about this problem, because the EU is one of the main economies in the world, and they also are a very active supporter of the international standards.
So, I believe that the relations is important, but we have to believe that the importance of the relations should based on the mutual benefit and the respect.
Dr. Zhou Mi, Senior Research Fellow with Chinese Academy of International Trade and Economic Cooperation, talking to my colleague Zhao Yang.
Coming up, China's - I think people are having more and more components in services as well.
I give you an example.
China's expansion of e -commerce in other countries certainly is happening as a service trade.
These things are also probably at play.
So I think a couple of reasons combined are contributing to the fact that China's trading services has been on steady rise in the last year.
So in a bigger picture, Sands, Professor, what do you think the momentum we see with regard to China's trading services tells us about the transformation in China's economy?
Yeah. I think trade to some extent - or to a larger extent - reflects the transformation of the economy as well.
China's economies certainly getting a larger share of the services in the GDP.
Accordingly, I think it's trade also gets an uplift of component in service trade as well.
I think for all developed economies or economists moving towards that direction, you're going to see more and more share of the GDP attributed to services.
I think right now, service accounts for, I think it's around 50 % of China's GDP.
And in large, highly advanced economies, for example, in the United States, you see service contributing to more than 80 % of GDP.
I think China is also moving towards that direction as well.
So moving forward I think there'll be more and more trading services just to reflect this general trend.
Hmm now for China some notable forms of trading services with some noticeable industries I guess would include say inbound tourism and China's digital cultural platforms like gaming gaming attractions among some overseas users for example.
So what do you make of China's policy support or overall performance or China's competitiveness in these specific areas I have mentioned.
Yeah. Well, I think the things you mentioned the inbound travel, outbound travel.
The inbound travel is counted as exports of service and outbound travel is Usually as imports of services.
I think, you know, the overseas travel both inbound and outbound has been largely affected in the last three, four years, you know, during the COVID era.
It's steadily coming back, spearheaded by outbound traffic first.
But I think, you know, I think in the last few months of last year, inbound traffic has increased significantly.
We are starting to see why it is also the result of China's unilateral visa -free policies for many countries.
We are starting to see more and more people coming to China for visits, for work, for other purposes.
But I think overall this is a trend of recovery in both their actions.
So that is a very encouraging development and moving forward.
I would hope that the channel will continue, especially I think for the inbound traffic.
I see. Now, last year, I think it was during August last year, the Chinese governments released a guideline regarding promoting the high quality development of trading services through high standards opening up.
So what do you think is the message that has been sent by the Chinese government here, and why is opening up important for China's trade and services?
Well, I think as a world's largest trading nation, especially the largest trading nation with the world's largest exports, and in particular with a trade surplus in goods of over a trillion dollar you know this country just cannot afford being closed up I mean you just in politically an economic unsustainable there are what you have to open up the country open up the economy so that our trade can be moving towards a more balanced picture so so I think you know this is not just a sort of a politically oriented kind of initiative I think it's also we it's also a imperative that has foreign policy
implications as well.
So, I think, you know, there's no doubt that China will continue to be opening up, you know, just to be, you know, more and more totally integrated into the global economy.
I think, you know, we want to set an example as a free trading nation.
You know, this is a notion that hasn't been really maintained and supported for leading trading nations, for leading industrialised nations who actually set up the post -Second World War of economic order.
These countries are receding in that aspect.
So I think China now is one of the few countries still talk about free trade, still hold the banner of free trade.
And free trade means that totally open it up.
So I think there's no other choice, we have to move towards that direction.
Hmm. Now the World Trade Organization has acknowledged, I checked some of the WTO's official documents, and this organization has openly acknowledged that for example, over the past 20 years, globally speaking, trading services has become the most dynamic segment of world trade.
It has grown at a pace much quicker than trade in goods.
But at a time when Western media outlets are increasingly interested in China's economy and many of the economic issues related to China, Professor Gong, why do you think they rarely pay attention to China's trading services?
For example, here in Beijing, we are operating an annual trade event focused on trading services, but you rarely see Western media outlets making any coverage about that event.
Well, I think it could be a couple of reasons.
One is out of ignorance, I guess, and probably they're not so much familiar with China's trading service's picture.
The second thing could be, they don't they don't want to talk about it, because on trading services, we actually a country that has a huge deficit.
Overall, in 2024, China exported about 440 billion dollars of services, exports of services, and imports 600 billion, so we actually had a 150 billion dollar trade deficit interested in services.
So I guess, you know, that doesn't feel very well, this narrative that China has mercantilist trade policy, blah, blah, blah.
So and has a very large trade surplus, blah, blah.
So obviously, you know, we understand very well that China's trading goods has a huge surplus, there's no doubt about it, but it's also mitigated.
but the fact that we also run a quite large trade deficit in services in the scale of $150 billion, $160 billion, and that's a fairly sizable amount.
So I think this is something that many Western country politicians don't want to talk about.
Thank you very much for putting this into perspective and for joining us today.
That was Professor Jiang Gong joining us from the University of International Business and Economics.
More to come, America's top diplomat has made some new noises about the so -called Chinese influence over the Panama Canal.
Qatar calls for a swift start to the second phase of Gaza ceasefire negotiations.
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I'm Dean Hunan Beijing, we'll be back after a short break.
Welcome. I'm Elath Elad, economics professor and member of the Data Science and AI Center at New York University, Shanghai.
On the World Today Program, you can find in -depth and impartial insight as well as critical commentary on key trends in the Chinese economy, financial technology, business and blockchain.
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US Secretary of State Marco Rubio has threatened that Washington will take measures if Panama does now take immediate steps to end what U .S.
President Donald Trump calls Chinese influence over the Panama Canal.
Rubio and Panama's President Jost Raul Moolanow had a meeting in Panama's capital city on Sunday.
Moolanow has reiterated that his country's sovereignty over the canal is not up for discussion.
Rubio's warning followed Donald Trump's early avail to retake the Panama Canal.
So joining us now underlying is Dr. Wang Jing, Associate Professor with Northwest University in Xian, China.
Thank you very much for joining us.
my pleasure. So to put it bluntly, Dr. Wan, here's the Trump administration bullying in Panama here and what do you make of the fundamental incentives for Trump to take issue with the Panama Canal?
I think actually let's be frank, I think the United States is bullying Panama because actually the Panama Canal is actually the sovereignty issue, the internal issue of the United States government without the right of refusing any and rejecting any provision from the other countries.
The United States on the one hand maintained that they had the particular kind of special rights over the canal, and on the other hand they always maintained that the OK, some other companies, particularly some other Chinese companies, are now taking over, or to some and sole court taking over to some extent using the canal to use it as a very channel to intervene United States' own interests, or by the United States' own interests.
That's of course ridiculous.
So that is why I think the United States is very, very directly violating the rights, legal rights of the Panama government and the Panama people, and also it is very direct the bully, the gesture of bullying, the manners towards the from the United States towards the Panama government, these people.
So that is why I think it's very direct to bully that should be rejected by not only the Panama government itself, but also the whole world.
Because it's a very very hegemonic behavior.
Now, regarding the so called Chinese influence over the Panama Canal, when we talk about this issue, I guess we are mostly talking about a Hong Kong based corporation that is operating two ports over there near the Panama Canal's entrances, right?
So what do you make of the mentality behind when this Hong Kong based company's presence is described by Washington or by the Trump administration officials as a threat to the Panama Canal and what do you think this tells us this might tell us about Washington's broader view regarding Chinese presence in Latin American region I think it actually has two two explanation we have two explanations on the one hand the United States is actually finding or try to find out, or kind of possible excuses to attack China to defend their own so -called rights over the part of the past, although these rights
actually don't exist.
But the problem is that they use these rights, they use the so -called excuses, so -called Chinese companies or the Chinese presence there also reflected the fact that the United the states, particularly under the Donald Trump administration, is gradually viewing or perceiving or we call it understanding China as a very major competitive.
So in this whole world, when some other country is doing the regular or a very, very normal business, it's a business contract, it's a business behavior.
that some United States perspective, it would be understood as a so -called China's strategy or China's so -called influence over the other country.
So, it could become very dangerous when the United States is kind of the description continue, because once every business behavior is defined from the United States perception and so -called political behavior.
That means that nobody is safe.
In this word, nobody could be saved by themselves, because United States today could define China's business behavior, so called political behavior.
But then tomorrow, they for example, define the other countries as a very competitor, and then define other countries with economic and financial behavior, so -called political behavior.
And then they have excuses to violate the legal rights of the of the cooperatives.
So that is why I think it's a very dangerous signal and this signal should be strongly condemned and rejected by not only by China, not only by Panama but also by the all of the world.
So what measures would you expect Washington to take if Panama doesn't doesn't yell to the pressures from Trump.
In history we saw the 1989 US invasion of Panama to stage a regime change in this country.
Do you think the Trump administration's measures and actions subsequently will go as far as something close to that I mean close to the 1989 invasion?
Of course, there might some kind of the military activity that is taken by the United States over through the government of the Panama if the government does not follow the order or follow the direction of the United States they have these kind of capabilities and also in the history as you mentioned United States always deedlessly or I think this will do the things again and again again so that is why I think it is something we cannot reject the possibility that the United States would intervene the internal politics of the Panama by through the United States or military capabilities.
And on the other hand, I think the United States would do something else.
For example, to invest more resources into the country and try to destabilize the country's political scenario.
And also, the United States could, for example, impose new economic sanctions to the certain companies or the certain political groups who have the closed connection with the anti -United States or the anti -Washington rhetoric, and I think United States will do it.
So the problem is that on the one hand, the Panama government and also the other countries are doing the right thing because they are defining their own legal rights.
They're defining their sovereignty, they're defining their legal rights for cooperation and the economic development but on the other hand we have to defend the very ridiculous attacks from United States and also they have a defense, they are country from the possible intervention from United States.
So that is why seeing Panama alone cannot defend it.
This is why they were called for the very strong war unity to resist United States pressure.
Hmm now in Panama's capital city, Panama city, we have already seen some local people, some local demonstrators burning the effigies of Trump and Marco Rubio in protest of this so -called threat to retake the Panama Canal.
So very briefly before we let you go, how would you evaluate the possible anti -US sentiment that could be banned not only in Panama but also in the broader Latin American region because of Trump's threat against Panama.
Now, I think these are the kind of turning points, because the United States is using its own hegemonic behavior everywhere, including the Panama Canal, although we know the kind of canal is actually a very important channel for all of the global countries.
So, that is why I think that could become a turning point.
Maybe the United States will win.
I mean, the United States will give a lot of pressure to the Panama government and also the other companies to make them make confessions.
But then I think gradually all the countries in this world will recognize that the United States is the dangerous origin of the danger from its own hegemonic worldview.
All the countries, particularly from the global south, we will unite to resist United States pressure.
So that is why I think we could have become a very turning point and the United States pressure cannot be resisted today, but maybe tomorrow.
Yeah. Thank you very much for joining us.
Dr. Wang Jing, Associate Professor with infrastructure with Northwestern University in Xi 'an, China.
Coming up, Qatar cause force swift start to the second phase of Gaza ceasefire negotiations.
We'll be back. You are listening to World Today.
Qatar has called on Israel and Hamas to start work on the second phase of the Gaza ceasefire agreement.
Qatari Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Mohammed Bin Abdulrahman al -Fadi on Sunday stressed about the importance of both sides' commitment to engaging in good faith.
And during a recent Arabic ministerial meeting held in Cairo, Bin Abdulrahman reiterated Qatar's opposition to any attempt to forcefully remove Palestinians from the Gaza Strip.
On January 19, the first phase of the Gaza Agreement went into effect, during which negotiations will continue for subsequent phases.
The agreement is mediated by Qatar and Egypt with support from the United States.
So joining us now underlying is Dr. He Wenping from Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.
So thank you very much for joining us today, Dr. He Wenping.
What do you expect will be the focal points of the negotiations for the second phase of the deal?
And do you think there is a commitment from both the Israeli side and Hamas to engaging in good faith?
Well, according to the agreement reached in January.
Actually, the second phase of this agreement will be focused on release all those the refugees like Easter side also where we release all those cage Palestinian.
But most importantly, that is the issue well we saw completely from Gaza.
I think this is a very key folks.
That's why now I don't think this commitment for realize this second phase will be that strong.
Actually, if we look about the first phase, all those implementation, the withdrawal of the troops from Gaza Strip by the Israeli side now actually is not that encouraging.
Actually, Israel even had made another front, military attacks to the West Bank of Jordan River.
So why do you think that has been the case on the part of the Israeli side?
Is Israel facing pressures from either its domestic fronts or international fronts?
Oh, of course. The faith, especially this withdrawal of Israeli troops from Gaza Strip.
Now Netanyahu has to get new ideas, some ideas, and now reach agreement first with Donald Trump, with the Americans.
You know, without the U .S., there's firmly support.
And actually, Israel cannot move until today.
So, that's why obviously, now he delayed sending his negotiation team to Qatar.
So, until he got this agreement, he got this new idea, maybe, from the pump.
So, I think this is very clear.
We can see Netanyahu and Donald Trump now, they're obviously in the same shows.
Now, they're working out with a new idea or some consensus.
Now more than a week ago, Trump floated this idea regarding relocating the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip to Jordan and Egypt.
Why do you think his proposal here has been strongly rejected by not only Cairo and Amman, but also other Arab countries in the region?
Yes, I also noticed six countries, Arabic countries, including all those countries you mentioned, their foreign minister, they had an urgent meeting, and then the joint center statement rejected this idea.
Actually, this idea is not the first time through on the table.
This is the easier side.
Always want to make this idea becoming true.
That is to make all those Palestinians living in the Gaza, like Egypt or Ammon or other other countries, and then maybe make the Israel troops no longer need to withdraw, because Palestinian people are no longer there.
And Hamas will be routed out from that area, and then they will make Israel becoming so -called absolute security.
But what is the consequences for other Arabic countries?
They have to settle down all those people from Gaza, and then they have to come out with lots of resources to help those people to resettle.
Actually, this is not the interest at all for all those Arabic countries.
I used to have a meeting with the Egyptian generals in the Shang Forum, I think it was the last year.
And then when I asked those Egyptian generals, they said, what is the idea for you?
They said, in the Palestinian people, they said, come to Egypt to settle down, you get this piece of land.
And then they absolutely said, no, they are saying Egypt cannot sacrifice their own interests For anything like Italy has done to Feinstein saying the Palestinian -Israel this conflict, their interests cannot make Egypt becoming a hostage.
This is the same attitude when you go to Amma or other Arabic countries.
That's why even before this idea, the come out on the table in a formally way before that, and that has been immediately rejected by all those Arabic countries involved.
So, while our attention is currently on the Gaza and the ceasefire deal surrounding it right now, how do you foresee the destiny for the occupied West Bank?
Yeah, even the occupied West Bank of the Jordan River now is somehow in some kind of danger.
During the past 180 days Israel has made in their words six fighting fronts, Lebanon, Hezbollah, and then Hamas, and then goes to Syria.
Now even this West Bank of Jordan River also is now on their target in the name of anti -terror Palestinian issue.
The biggest trouble for them is they have been divided.
one is the Gaza Stream, another is the West Bank of Jordan River, so...
you see, Palestinian people are not united by themselves, that is why Israel can use this divided and the rule and then one hand to bombing the Hamas and on the other hand seems the West Bank of Jordan at the very beginning seems okay we are okay but now you see what is the okay you cannot be security forever Because in the eyes of Israel, this Netanyahu, including the riotists, those politician people, now teamed up with the very pro -Israel, this Donald Trump government.
Now they want to do more.
Don't forget, during the Donald Trump 1 .0 time, Donald Trump firmly supports Israel's settlement And also, even move the U .S.
embassy from Tereviv all the way to the Jerusalem.
So you can see that Donald Trump, now 2 .0, will do more to kind of move to back up the Netanyahu government.
That is why now Netanyahu will fly to the U .S., to the White House, now to talk with Donald Trump to see what they will do together in the coming second phase of this negotiation.
Thank you very much for joining us.
That was Dr. He Wenping joining us from Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.
You're listening to World Today.
Stay tuned. You're back with World Today.
I'm Dinhany Beijing.
Rwanda has expressed welcome for a joint regional summit in response to the escalating conflict ongoing in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
The M23 armed group has made some significant advances in the eastern part of this country, taking the major city of Goma and vowing to march onto the capital city of Kinshasa.
The United Nations and several countries believe that Rwanda is backing this armed group.
Rwanda's government, however, has never publicly admitted to being involved.
The 16 -nation South African development community has proposed a summit with the eight country East African community to discuss the security situation in the DRC.
The Rwanda Foreign Ministry said it welcomes the proposal, adding it had consistently advocated for a political solution to this conflict.
So joining us now in the studio is my colleague Zhao Ying.
thank you very much for joining us.
Thanks for having me.
When we talk about this M -23 and its role in the ongoing conflict in the DRC, I guess there were some basic questions we need to understand.
How did this group emerge and what are their key demands?
Well, the full name of this group is actually the March 23rd Movement.
It is a rebel group in Eastern Congo that's been central to the ongoing conflict there, and it first came into the picture back in 2012 when a group of soldiers from the CNDP, which is a 2C led militia, decided to break away from the Congolese army.
And they were angry that the DRC government hadn't honored the terms of a 2009 peace deal called the 23rd March Accord, which was supposed to bring an end to previous conflicts, and the March 23th's demands are pretty clear -cut.
They're looking for better political representation for the Tutsi community in the DRC, more security for their people, and a full implementation of that peace deal, and they've also accused the government of not doing enough to protect them from other armed groups in the region, but the group's role in the conflict goes beyond just those local politics, and over the years, they have captured major towns, including the city of Goma.
This is a key strategic point because of its proximity to Rwanda, its trade routes, and its mineral wealth.
And as the M23 advances, they've also stirred up a lot of tension with neighboring countries and international powers, which are all trying to find a way to end the violence.
So the UN and several other countries—like I said earlier—they're accusing Rwanda of supporting the M23 rebels, what evidence is there that could point to Rwanda's involvement, and how has the Rwanda government responded to those allegations?
Yes, as you said, the UN and several countries, including the US and France, have accused Rwanda of supporting the M23 rebels, and this is largely based on reports from UN experts who have claimed that Rwanda provides military support including training and supplies to the group.
And there have also been allegations that Rwanda troops were directly involved in fighting alongside of the M23 and eastern DRC.
And actually, there's a 2012 UN report which said that Rwanda was playing a major role in the M23 activities.
And later reports also suggested that Rwanda has defacto control over the group.
However, Rwanda has always denied these accusations, and they insist that it has not been involved in any military support for the M23 and has blamed the Congolese government for not implementing the peace agreements that led to the M23's formation in the first place.
And Rwanda also argues that the conflict has deeper roots that need to be addressed, because the M23's rise is tied to the bigger picture of the 1994 Rwanda genocide.
And after the genocide, many of their perpetrators, including leaders of the Huta militia, fled to neighboring countries like the DRC, where they've continued to be a source of tension ever since, and of the M23's creations was partly a response to the presence of the FDLR, A group made up of those Hutu extremists.
And Rwanda accuses the Congolese army of fighting alongside the FDLR.
But, of course, Congo denies those claims.
And also the Rwanda government says those accusations that they are supporting M23 are actually politically motivated and designed to undermine the country's reputation.
So one thing you have briefly talked about earlier is mineral wealth in the DRC, and I think indeed Rwanda has been accused of rooting DRC's mineral wealth through the M23.
I guess that's one acquisition.
So can you elaborate more regarding the role of mineral smuggling in this conflict?
Yes. As we know, the DRC is one of the richest countries in the world when it comes to natural resources, especially minerals like gold, cobalt, and tin and coltan.
And these minerals are in high demand globally.
The M23 has been accused of using its control over strategic mining areas to smuggle minerals out of the DRC, often bypassing official trade channels in selling them on the black market.
And Rwanda, which borders the GRC and has a strong presence in the region, is frequently cited as a key player in this illicit trade.
And reports suggest that minerals extracted in the GRC are smuggled into Rwanda where they are processed and then sold on international markets.
And this trade has not only helped fund the M23 but also contributed to the prolonging of the conflict.
And in fact, some analysis argue that the mineral smuggling is actually one of the main economic drivers of the conflict.
And Rwanda has denied these accusations, but one thing I think is for sure as long as this lucrative trade remains unregulated it will be difficult to address the underlying economic motivations driving the conflict.
So, in your observation, how bad is the situation on the ground, and how do you think the international community is responding to this crisis briefly?
Well, according to humanitarian groups, there are over a million people displaced across eastern DRC, with many of them being forced to live in makeshift shelters, and also the children in particular are at risk of being recruited by armed groups or falling victims or trafficking.
And while humanitarian aid is coming in from the international community, the skill of the crisis is overwhelming.
And the international community, including the U .N.
and various NGOs, is trying to provide food, water and medical care.
But due to the ongoing conflict, many roads, or either blocks, are too dangerous to travel.
So, I mean, more coordinated action is obviously needed to address both...
I mean, to address those humanitarian crises in the region.
Thank you very much for joining us.
that was my colleague Zhao Ying.
That's all the time for this edition of World Today.
To listen to this episode again, or to catch upon our previous episodes, you can download our podcast by searching World Today.
I'm Dean Hunning Beijing, thank you so much for listening.
Bye for now.
