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Welcome to the A -Z English Podcast.
My name is Jack and I'm here with my co -host, Sochol.
And I'm going to let Sochol introduce today's topic.
So Sochol, what would you like to talk about today?
Jack, I kind of want to talk about funeral traditions in different cultures.
So I was going to talk about, you know, Mexican traditions, because I just went through that with my grandfather passing.
I guess he passed less, like a week ago now maybe, or a little less than a week ago.
So yeah, I don't know if, and I then I guess I can just get into it.
Sure. I don't know how to kick this off, actually.
Maybe start with the just the process is in American culture.
There's a I guess there's kind of two aspects to it, right?
There's the funeral and the wake.
And the wake is more like a gathering where people get together and there's maybe some sometimes there's food I think is if I'm not mistaken.
So, and I think the interesting thing about that in American culture, and maybe this is true in every culture, it seems odd to be eating at that time.
You know what I mean?
No one has an appetite that people are grieving.
They're upset. But I feel like maybe the food preparation is a distraction.
It's focusing on our executive function of our brain, the part that is just very analytical and just doing things.
And I think that is a distraction from the pain and the grief.
Would you agree with that?
I think so. I think that also it's because a lot of people who aren't like super close family come and so they're like, you know, they're kind of there to help in a certain way or just, you know, for emotional support, but they're probably going to be hungry because I don't think they're mourning really
like the same way, you know.
They're sad I'm sure, but it's like a little different.
So I think it's like it's kind of a way for the family to say thank you.
In Mexican tradition that happened, that happens too, but it's like a two -day affair where you have to be like awake all night.
You're like up for 48 hours straight basically because you can't leave the body alone.
Oh, okay. Okay. Because that's different than American culture where the body is in the casket, but you don't have to stay up all night with the body.
Yeah. The body was in the casket, but we do have to stay with the body because it's like, I don't know, I guess it's to prevent bad spirits like in old mythology or whatever, to prevent bad spirits from like latching onto the soul or the body so you have to stay there like 48 hours and it's really hard.
My sister and I kind of were with my mom in shifts, so I would like stay up the whole time and then I would go to sleep then she would stay up.
Okay. So we didn't have to do the whole 48 hours thing.
I did have to stay up more than my sister because she traveled plus she's in vet school, so she was like sleeping for a lot large portion of it.
But when she finally woke up she stayed with the body and then I went to sleep and I woke up in the morning.
So and with the his like sisters and nieces and nephews they kind of did shifts as well.
So like one day I think my aunt was my great aunt was there and the other day my cousin I guess was there and it's like the family just kind of did shifts I guess.
Yeah, but it sounds like you didn't get much sleep though.
You sound exhausted.
Yeah. Yeah, it was very tiring and very hard because you're like dealing with a lot of grief and on top of that you're like serving people food and running around and serving people like drinks not alcoholic drinks but just regular drinks, but you still you're you're running around serving people like
soft drinks and food and it's just only something like you have to make these two giant you have to make like so we had cinnamon tea and coffee and then sweet bread like like pastries at night the first night and then the next morning we had like breakfast and we had like we also had pastries coffee
and and cinnamon tea and then we had like mole which is like a it's a chocolate based like sauce you know yeah and I've never tried mole.
No but I you've mentioned it before in the podcast I think.
Yes, I have. It's kind of different.
Mole is different because it's not it's just like it's a completely different dish I don't know why they share the same name but mole the paste is like a different dish and there's a there's like seven different types of moles this one is like a black mole which is kind of sweet a little bit sweet and spicy
and it's very thick.
It has a bunch of ingredients like chocolate chilies charred tortilla peanuts I think and different things like that so and we ate that with rice and chicken and then the next day after the funeral we also or before the funeral I think or after I can't remember we served no it was after the funeral we
served eggs in salsa verde and black beans but it's like kind of crazy because you're like running on no sleep and making all these meals for people so it's kind of like I don't know it's kind of wild and then like the family like my mom I think was up like the whole 48 hours.
Oh wow. I saw her sleep once and it was for like 15 minutes.
Right, right. Is she and and I you know for her this is uh both of her parents have passed in the within a very short period of time.
Yeah within four months from each other because my grandmother passed at the end of February and my grandfather passed at the very end of June.
Yeah, so yeah. She was up the whole night and serving people food and soft drinks and it just seemed like a really stressful night time for her and I feel really terrible for her because she's like in charge she's also the executor of the will which means she has she has a lot of work to do.
Right, a lot of a lot of documents that have to be signed and yeah a lot of responsibility in that in that respect, you know.
Yeah, so that's very difficult.
So yeah, I think it's just interesting.
I think I think it's it's kind of cool and very interesting how people are up for there's always people at your house for the whole 48 hours and it's kind of interesting but I just felt so suffocated like I wished it was just us like his closest family so I could just pull a mattress out and sleep on the floor or close
the body. Like I just I just kind of.
Or just cry, you know like if you feel a little bit um maybe I'm I'm just making an assumption here but um do you feel like you're you let you you can't be vulnerable when there are people who you don't know very closely around?
Is it yeah it was definitely hard but like when I first saw when like when I first got in there and saw the casket I just wailed anyway because it was just so intense.
Yeah, it was like it was different because with my grandmother it's like I didn't really cry.
I didn't I I cried a little bit with my grandfather.
I cried a little bit with my grandmother but with this grandfather I cried a lot more.
I think it's just like all the compound of them all dying so close together and then um it was just sadder because I felt like we didn't really get to say goodbye because the Mexican hospital system is really a mess and with my grand with my paternal grand grandfather he was um he had like dementia so we
kind of got to say a slow goodbye to him.
Yeah. So it was different and then he passed but it's like you know he was he was really suffering.
It was a it was a slow burn kind of goodbye and so it kind of felt more like he was ready to go you know.
Yeah yeah this one was more sudden it was yeah in a way like with my maternal grandmother who passed before my maternal grandfather I was living with her at the time so I like saw her decline in real time.
Yeah. And I and we were there with her every step of the way in the hospital.
We were we also stayed at the ICU for like the whole week basically um but we got to see her every single day and hear about you know what's going on.
So with this one it was just kind of a shock because like only one person could go in I think per day and it would only be like 30 minutes per 30 minutes and um it was very restricted and they didn't really keep you updated on anything.
So the last couple days we thought he was stable and he was getting better so I was like I was kind of slowly planning my way to get over there if that makes sense.
Yeah makes perfect sense.
I was like he he'll be fine that's what we were understanding.
So for me it was like oh like I'm gonna I'll I'll plan my I'll just um I have to get it together to plan with my aunt about when I'm going to Mexico City and when her and I are gonna head to the US.
Um and so we were I was just looking at flights when I got the call from my aunt that he had passed and I was just like it really shocked me you know.
Yeah and so it was like I really wasn't expecting it and my my mom and aunt didn't even get to say goodbye.
He'd already passed so yeah it's just yeah it's very hard I think when there's less closure like that and you think someone's gonna get better and then they don't and it's just very like confusing and very hard on you.
So yeah with this one I did cry even though there are people there of course I didn't feel like as comfortable um but I just broke down anyway it's like I couldn't help it.
Oh no and people are are very uh sympathetic to that I'm I think we in in in Mexican culture you you mentioned before in other podcasts that it's uh a kind of a masculine um uh culture yes so kind of suffocating pushing down your feelings um in in public is you know trying to be stoic stoic means like
you know trying to be strong um and and I I feel like we that's also part of the United States culture when it comes to these things is like you know don't break down and I wish we could be more vulnerable with each other and in those situations and and just really let our true emotions come out and it
sounds like you you did that and it was healthier to do that.
Yeah I pretty much was beyond giving a crap about whatever anyone around me thought you know what I mean so I yeah I broke down so yeah it was it was very hard and then you know we had the funeral um recession kind of thing and they carried the casket and we stood around um watching him get lowered
into the like the brave and um kind of different in Mexico because Mexico City is huge so there's like one small lot and it kind of looks like a house from outside like a small house like a one room house or something.
Oh okay yeah it has doors that lock and like a window and like a roof and everything and it's like kind of like a really tiny mausoleum but like a really tiny one but not it doesn't look like a mausoleum it just looks like a little tiny house like one room house so we opened it and then they like pull
the concrete slobs out and there's like 10 it's like a like a 15 -foot hole or 12 -foot hole like and it's like 10 slabs that you could bury different people in on both sides.
Okay is this a family plot here?
Yeah it's a family plot.
Okay so if I'm you know I don't mean to uh be um to diminish this or anything but um I remember seeing a little house like that in the movie Coco.
Oh yeah yes that's kind of how it's like yeah yeah okay yeah yeah it is like that and um so we we uh lowered him down in there and they put my grandmother's ashes with him actually in the same casket that was that was a uh that was a moment of anger for all of us because his freaking sister my grandfather's
sister who's my great aunt said if we wanted to put the ashes in with him we could put her ashes at his feet.
Oh like why would you even say that you know what I mean I wasn't there when she said that or I would have been so mad um but you know we just put them they were like next to his arm I guess.
Yeah yeah you you want holding each other not yeah yeah you know not one like beneath the other one it's like you know but yeah so we watched him get lowered in the slab and then they like bricked him in basically they have to brick people in because they don't want them like stealing the body or like
stealing anything that came that the body was buried with.
Oh like grave grave robbers kind of situation.
Yeah yeah grave robber situation so they like brick him in yeah to his slab and the grave so it was kind of a interesting process and and the I was getting very like lightheaded and nauseous and they everyone thought I was going to faint and um my great one of my other great aunts pulled out a ziploc
bag and it had a white onion cut into quarters and she took the a quarter of a white onion and sprayed it with rubbing alcohol that she had in a little spray bottle in her purse and she handed it to me to like sniff so that was supposed to help me not pass out um and it did help weirdly I felt way better
really okay I was I would have thought maybe the smell of onion would make it worse but I definitely it's like interesting because you don't really smell the onion that much because your face is like right up against it and it has rubbing alcohol on it so the only thing the onion does is like I guess
the juices from the onion make the rubbing alcohol more mild so it doesn't burn your nose when it comes up they like react together somehow so like you can still smell the strong smell of like alcohol but it doesn't like burn your nostrils yeah um so that was interesting and uh my boyfriend and my sister
said that um the onion like the smell of the onion was kind of making them nauseous but I didn't notice and they didn't tell me until after the funeral um because I guess they were further away so it like smelled weird to them yeah and then my aunt really made me laugh because she was kind of right
next to me and she but she didn't see she like right kind of in front of me and so since she didn't see my onion she she was like why does it smell like guacamole and I was like huh that's that's funny yeah that's yeah yeah it's like a moment of humor in all of it so a little levity was probably what everyone
needed in that moment yeah so you know we had good laugh about that and then it was yeah there were some moments where definitely we had a couple laughs so and then yeah we went back home and and that was kind of it um there's some certain things you do with the body like I got to see his body and it
was different because my grand the way my grandmother passed her body looked very different and then when my grandfather passed when they put him in um and they put like coins in his pocket for his passage and two special shoes like what I just like on him which are traditional shoes so he and different
things and my sister and I said we why didn't we didn't give any of this to my grandmother um and so we just we gave him extra money to pay for her passage because we thought she might be waiting since no one gave her any money to pay for her passage um yeah that's interesting it sounds like there's
like a lot of little little things that you have to to do yeah like a lot of little things you have to remember yeah yeah and big things yeah well how are korean funerals jack i'm curious about that i've never been to one i've seen them in like kdramas and movies but i've never like been to one yeah
so the korean funerals are interesting they're very different it's um the my my wife's grandmother passed um probably going on oh gosh uh 10 or or 12 years ago something like that and um what happens is there's there's kind of an extra wing of of hospitals that are kind of set up for uh funerals and what happens
is um the the body is is uh creaked cremated um for the most part in korea that's the the tradition i think it probably comes down to the size of the country um land population yeah exactly it's it's it's um it's it's rare to to bury a body um and um so the body is is um prepared and cremated at the at that facility
that is attached to the hospital i believe and then in the hospital you get like a a room and it's it's a large room with an eating area and then there's a a nice a very nice uh photograph of the deceased person and kind of like almost like a shrine kind of set up um you know flowers and things like
that and outside when you when you enter this this large room um the uh uh like you're if the company you work for will always send flowers and it's the flower arrangements are always these um kind of tall uh flower arrangements with a big ribbon uh expressing condolences and so i think the more um
the more influential you were the more people you know you knew um the more flowers are sent you know so it can it's very important i think to to have a lot of those outside um and outside the door when people enter um when you when you enter the room um people you will give some money and so there
was a one family member that's sitting there collecting an envelope of of money that goes to the family to pay for the funeral costs and um whatever uh uh uh other things that need to be paid for and um and then there's uh there's some food where you can you sit they invite you to to sit down and have a meal
and there is no there is no like formal kind of ceremony thing in in that in in that uh at that time um you but what what happens is you have this this room this large room for three days so and that's what's so interesting to me is that the family stays there for three days so there's like uh i believe
there's a bathroom and a shower um and you know you can you sleep there and and uh you know people will get up at different hours and people will arrive at all kinds of different hours um and i think it goes back to maybe the older times during the uh uh the the joe sun dynasty the the one before uh
the last dynasty um in korea and um at those times you know if you were to hear about the passing of a relative you would you would start your trek to that location and so i think they three days is enough time for most people to make it there um now nowadays it seems a little bit um unnecessary or we
could say antiquated which just means like um it's an older tradition that that no longer is it's still followed but um it's it's not necessarily necessary because people can get there very quickly within you know a day you can get to the uh to the hospital and go to that special wing of the hospital
where the um i i guess the the the paying respects to the family uh occurs and then there's an urn an urn is is a a container a kind of a beautiful ornate container that has the ashes inside of it and that's also i believe um up there with the photograph and uh people will you know come and and you
know give their condolences to the family um but that three -day waiting period was kind of interesting to me um be not waiting period but the three -day period of time where the family is stays together in that one place kind of reminds me of what you were talking about of like staying awake with the body
for of 48 hours um there's there's something about that and i i know there's another in the jewish tradition there's something called uh sitting shiva and shiva is where the body is um sometimes it's in in a person's house um and they sit with the body for i i don't remember exactly how many days but people
will come and they will sit down and they will mourn with the family and then they will leave and other people will come and and come and go and it's kind of interesting how some of these traditions seem to overlap a little bit like there's something about maybe there's something um important about just
sitting in your grief with your loved one who's passed and then kind of getting a collective hug from all the people that knew that person and loved that person and you know coming and sitting with the family i feel like in in american culture it's you know the most we get is like um you know someone
will come up at the wake or or uh the funeral and say i'm sorry for your loss and then that's that's kind of it you know um there isn't like a longer it's kind of like uh this is uncomfortable i want this to be over as quickly as possible and right it seems like in mexican culture and korean culture
and in judaism um or jewish culture um there's something about fighting through that discomfort and getting to a much more honest place where you can act cry together uh mourn together laugh together sometimes um there you know it's not always um mournful sometimes there are happy memories and and share they
share stories and things like that and so i thought it was was really beautiful um and there's one other aspect of korean um funerals that are that are interesting and that is the uh close friends and family will do almost a a performative kind of weeping and now sometimes it's it's genuine i'm i'm
sure but i did see this happen and the woman was wailing and and and crying and and you know um i i don't understand korean very well but i you know it sounded like she's saying no how can this be this is you know unfair and and then after she was done weeping all of a sudden her face changed right
back to normal and so i realized oh this is a performative thing um out of you know paying respect to the person who's passed that you know showing um how how much you've stirred up my emotions internally um but it was interesting how she kind of came out of it really quickly and so i was i was i was really
intrigued by by that aspect of it as well yeah i might be like a catharsis i think as well where like it's like you get to let out all your mourning and wail as loudly as you want and everything and then after it's over you kind of just like empty you know yeah yeah that's probably that's exactly what it
is i think that's what it is because i i know that um some people were were um a little bit uncomfortable with it or or i i noticed that maybe they because i'm a i'm a foreigner they they were like oh this you know maybe i don't know if they were embarrassed a little bit or something of of this happening
but i was just um you know i didn't know uh my wife's grandmother very closely so for me kind of being there was kind of an out of body experience you know i felt like very much an observer kind of in a in a in a very foreign situation and so almost like an anthropologist i was kind of documenting all
of the the things that were occurring and uh kind of viewing it that way yeah it's just like it's it's funny like and then they they come to our culture when they see like my mom was really shocked and because actually in mexican culture uh i think it's normal to you know to cry like that too a little
bit at least and and american culture is really not we're kind of more cold and rigid and so i remember when my mom came to um the u .s and had to attend a funeral she thought it was so weird how like even the closest family wasn't like breaking down yeah she saw it as like very strange and it's funny
because they have like a completely opposite um experience when they come to our culture as well and for me it was fun it was like such a moment of being bicultural because like when at the funeral you're blowing the casket i when i thought i was going to faint um i was talking about it on the way back
in the car on the way back to from mexico city to oaxaca and so it was my dad and my aunt and my mom there and you know so driving back and um i was like oh yeah i thought i was going to faint but i'd never seen anyone pull out the like a baggie with onions before but it really helped and my mom said
yeah it's a really common thing to take when you're burying a body um at least in mexico city because it's like it's thought to help protect against people fainting yeah um and my dad said why would why would you faint like he asked me that and my mom rolled her eye she looks so annoyed it was very
funny because it's kind of like i get it yeah they're like totally different the answer is so obvious it's just such a funny question you know it's like because you know my close you know relative has just passed of course you know that's why um the in american culture the the idea of stoicism is so strong
it's like um we almost um respect it right when they don't cry because they'll you know in the car ride home they'll say oh look how brave she was look how brave he was those are things i've heard you know my parents say before uh after a funeral right and it's like why do we need to be brave at this time
shouldn't we be totally raw and vulnerable and just you know exposed to nerves and and just you know what it why does it have to be so clean and and and and and dare i say cold yeah polished yeah it's like a tight it's a performance as well just how it's funny like just how you know we might see other
cultures performing uh grief and and like a vulnerable outward fashion they probably see us performing stoicism it's very like bizarre behavior right right when you because it's the because the actions don't match the gravity of the situation it's like right the yeah they're almost it's almost like
um you're accessing all this willpower to just not feel something and and and then and then when people get home and then they're alone they completely break down because they've been suppressing all of these emotions for the last couple days so i i don't if i got to choose i would be okay with a a korean funeral
that'd be okay with me hey i think i want a mix of both cultures for me i like i don't want people to have to like sit in the hospital watch me suffer to death you know but you know it ultimately the funerals for the people who loved you during your life and if however they need to grieve i think that's
okay with me you know yeah yeah i absolutely absolutely and in the korean funeral there's you know there's soju which is an alcoholic drink um is served pretty um uh should i say liberally liberally yeah that's what i was trying to say um and uh i think that maybe helps suppress some of the the emotions
um but uh yeah ultimately i i i found it to be a beautiful experience even though it was a tragic one but um yeah i yeah maybe maybe there's something we can take away from each culture and you know put all the good parts together and and and have do it that way so yeah for sure yeah yeah well listeners
you'll have to let us know what funeral traditions are like in your home country i'm really curious because i know there's some other cultures that also have extended like wakes and um yeah i'm just really curious to know how you guys um celebrate the life of those who passed on or how you mourn so make
sure to leave us a comment down below at z englishpodcast .com shoot us an email at a disease podcast at gmail .com and um make sure to join the we chat and whatsapp groups remember that jack and i are also having an english corner now that we do monday to friday and that is for one hour in the morning
uh for me and in the evening jack's time so you'll have to message jack directly to get the details um but yeah it's only ten dollars usd a month and you get 20 classes so that's pretty good 50 cents a class yeah um yeah and it's just really great you get to converse and we we have topics like these
that we talk about and it's just a really nice environment um friendly environment in there yeah very friendly yeah all right see you later bye bye okay bye you
