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Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio.
Good morning. This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast.
Today's episode is going to be a longer one, part of the series where I interview fascinating people about how they take their days from great to awesome and any advice they have for the rest of us.
So today I'm delighted to welcome Karl Pullein to the show.
Karl is the host of the Your Time, Your Way podcast.
He also teaches productivity courses, among other things.
So Karl, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me.
Yeah, so why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?
Well, I think the most surprising thing is that I originally come from the United Kingdom, but have lived in Korea now, South Korea, for 22, 22 years, 23 years.
23 years. Yes. 23 years this year. I only came for one year.
I just came to teach English. I needed to time out.
I trained to be a lawyer. And then I went to work in a law office.
And that was my first experience of working in an office.
And I felt like I was a prisoner. You know, I had to be there from nine till, well, it's usually 8.30 till 6.30 p.m.
You are allowed out for lunch. But the rest of the time, there was an office manager.
And it was perfectly normal, by the way, at the end of 1990s, early 2000s for this to happen.
And I really genuinely felt I'm in day release prison here.
Because my previous jobs had been in hotel management, car sales.
And in those jobs, you just run around all day.
You weren't tied to a desk. And so I thought, okay, I need some time out because do I really want to spend the rest of my career being tied to a desk?
And I came to career and that's 23 years ago, last month.
And yeah, there's no chance of going back now.
I found my forte, if you like. I fell in love with teaching and I knew that within three months, that was really what my vocation was.
And I've never stopped since. Yeah, which I love.
I love that you were able to change in the middle of life and figure out what you wanted to do.
And I'm also really appreciative that you are talking with me at 11 p.m. your time, which is during business hours on the East Coast of the United States.
Definitely challenging to connect with that.
But you've had such a varied career, like you said, car sales, hotel, teaching English law.
I'm sure that you've picked up on little things from all of these, right?
I mean, there's lessons you've taken from all of these as you're teaching now.
Absolutely. I mean, I think my first, I mean, I fell in love with time management productivity when I was in middle school.
I used to, before computers and Excel and stuff when I was at school.
So it used to be an A4, blank piece of A4 paper.
I'd write out a timetable for studying for when my exams were coming.
And I was absolutely fantastic at making those timetables, but just terrible at revising them.
But that was really where I just became fascinated with time and time management.
I also think I was quite lucky because I had a teacher at school who got me into cross-country running.
Now, most people hate that, but maybe it's because I'm probably more introverted.
So the team sports, yeah, I was okay at, but they weren't really where I excelled.
As soon as I started running, it was, wow, I just fell in love with it.
And then I became quite a competitive athlete running for my county, which I think in the US would be state.
And that taught me – again, I was given training schedules from my coaches.
So at a very early age, I learned very quickly that actually – the calendar as we use it today, but the schedule was always going to be the most important thing in life.
And then when I got working in the car sales, I was very lucky because when the first, my first real general manager, I mean, he was probably the, it still is to this day, the most organized person I've ever met.
And again, this was before we had all the digital productivity tools we have.
So it was this wonderful A4 leather bound, desk diary that I just fell in love with and I went and bought myself one.
And yeah, it taught me a lot. Yeah. Well, it's interesting you say that because that you were drawn to productivity tools early on.
I think you've also talked about, um, Having, you can correct me if I'm wrong here, ADHD that as an adult, you know, you found out.
And a lot of people who grow up with that are not necessarily drawn to productivity tools.
They see it as something of a more foreign concept.
I think so. Yeah. I mean, I'm very lucky because ADHD wasn't a thing without school.
I'm so glad that I actually learned coping mechanisms without being told this is the medicine you should take because I probably would have believed them.
And so I developed coping mechanisms very, very early on in life, which means that there's no point in me going to see doctors about it.
I know, I've got it. I mean, you just read my school reports.
It's pretty clear. And yeah, I can get easily distracted.
But what I do notice, though, is that To me, the ADHD is a superpower because I know now how to engage it in order to get really focused on a project, for example, that I'm working on.
Because just before I went away, I was running close to a deadline for a course I wanted to get out.
And I just thought, right, this is where ADHD is going to be my best friend.
And yeah, for about 48 hours, I was completely zoned in.
Nothing was going to pull me away from it.
And I'm so glad I've got ADHD. I actually think the number of people who've got it, it's probably actually abnormal not to have it.
Because so many people have variations of it.
I think in many respects, it's probably quite normal.
But as I say, to me, it's my superpower.
Yeah, and by learning the coping techniques of planning out your schedules for long-term things, and I'm sure having the cross-country running as a way to burn off some energy, those are probably a great combination.
That's why exercise is still a huge... If I'm not exercising, everything starts falling apart.
I mean, I'm not going out running 10 miles a day or anything like that anymore.
But at least 30, 40 minutes a day, I need to be doing some exercising.
I'm lucky I have a dog as well. So he needs an hour.
Yeah. Well, we will get to that in a minute.
We are definitely going to talk about exercise.
I wanted to ask you, though, one thing I was reading of one of your ideas that you talk about, this time-based productivity.
And you've talked about this issue. Like, it's the problem with the modern world.
Like, in the past... When you had to do a great many things, you had to actually go somewhere to do them, right?
And so obviously going somewhere takes some amount of time.
Like you can't fool yourself that you could instantly be at the store or be at this appointment or whatever else.
You had to go there. So you had to build in the time for it.
Whereas now, a lot of the things we do could be done whenever.
We have complete flexibility to choose them.
And so people don't necessarily allocate adequate time to them.
Am I understanding that correctly? Yeah.
I mean, one of the things, this probably came about about 10 years ago when I sort of like came up with my email processing system, if you like.
And I realized that actually the number of emails I get per day is probably about 150, something like that.
Of that, probably 40 require me to take some action.
Now, I've got a choice here. I could just ignore that and let it build up.
Well, tomorrow it'll be 80. The day after that, it'd be 120.
I'm never going to have time to sit down and deal with 120 actionable emails.
No chance. But 40, I calculated, takes me around about 50 minutes to an hour.
I mean, 40 is just, I mean, some days it would be 20.
Like today, it was probably about 15 because, you know, it's Sunday night for me.
I don't get that many. So I now allocate just an hour a day, and I call it my communication time.
Now, if I don't clear... all those 40 emails today.
It doesn't matter because tomorrow, the oldest, because I reversed the order, so the oldest is at the top, not the bottom.
So I'm not cherry picking. So tomorrow, I just know if I start at the top, nobody is ever really going to be waiting longer than say 24 hours for a reply.
And it's worked solidly for 10 years now.
And 10 years ago, I was probably only getting about 30 to 35 emails a day.
So I've had to increase the time I spend doing it.
But I'm quite happy to an hour. After that, no, I'm not going to spend more than an hour on communications.
But I know that, again, I've got an hour tomorrow and a day after.
So I'm relaxed about it. It never worries me.
There's always some little caveats, you know, if anyone's got, if there's a money issue or there's a, somebody can't log into their account on my learning center.
Sure, I'm going to deal with that as soon as I seal that email, but it only takes me like two minutes to deal with.
But the rest of the emails, yeah, they'll wait until my, usually about four o'clock in the evening, afternoon, when I'll sit down and just do my actionable email.
But that taught me, I thought, okay, if I can spend an hour on communications, what about allocating time for other categories of work that I have to do?
Whether it's, you know, I usually have three hours set aside for recording YouTube videos.
I have probably about six hours a week set aside for writing.
And it's now so much, today, Monday is brilliant because this morning, obviously my evening time now, I didn't have to think about, well, what am I going to do now?
It's just, oh, it's Monday, it's writing day.
So this morning I spent about two, two and a half hours of writing, got most of my writing done.
I'm happy with that. Excellent. All right.
Well, we're going to take a quick ad break and then I'll be back with more from Carl Pullein.
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Well, I am back talking with Carl Pullein, who is the host of the Your Time, Your Way podcast, a productivity expert as well.
So another exercise that you have talked about, as I was reading the description for your recent courses, the perfect week calendar.
What is the perfect week calendar? Right.
Now, this is because most... Now, just to go back a little bit of history, one of...
I was introduced to something called the Franklin Planner in the early 1990s, probably around about 93, 94.
Now, part of that, you get sent on a training.
The company I was working for sent me on a training course.
And the first day had nothing to do with time management.
I'm supposed to be here to learn about time management.
Why are we talking about governing values, what's important to you, and the lens you look at the world through and stuff like that?
Now, back then, I'm in my early 20s. It probably went over my head a little bit, but I did start writing out what I felt at the time was my governing values.
Weirdly, when I look at them today, I'm going, wow, 90% of them are still true today.
And the perfect week calendar is essentially a step up from that.
It's like, okay, this is all the stuff that's important to me.
And if I don't define that, what does that actually mean at a task level?
It's just going to never get dealt with.
I'm just not going to be dealing with it because, as you mentioned before, today's world stuff is just coming at you 24-7.
But if you know what's important to you, you can then quickly filter out the less important stuff.
So the perfect week calendar is about saying, okay, I want this amount of time per week to exercise.
I want this amount of time per week to spend with my family because we have family time. so there was something I read a long time ago now about Michael Dell when his kids were young and he's building a big computer empire he would always be home I think by 6pm to have a family dinner at 7pm And then he would play with his kids.
And then at 9pm, he'd go to his home office and deal with any remaining stuff that he had to deal with.
I was thinking, wow, that's three hours every single day where he has said, that's it.
It's now family time. Blocked off. Nobody gets... my attention except my family.
I know that Gary Vaynerchuk does it as well.
You know, he's always home for family dinner, time with the kids, and then he will maybe go out and have a business meeting later in the evening.
And I realised that that means, you know, to me, family time is also important.
So it's in my calendar. Because if whatever goes on the calendar gets done, that's my philosophy.
So you can design the perfect week. And you do it for your personal life first, and then you do it for your work life.
What's important at work? What's your core work?
What are you employed to do? Make sure that you've got time set aside each week for that.
Because if you don't, your calendar will fill up with meetings.
And if you're spending, if you work a typical 40-hour week, and 35 hours are spent in meetings, when are you going to do your work?
So you've got to start getting, when you do that perfect week, you get to realize just how much time you've got.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, we always talk about there are 168 hours in a week.
So, you know, there are a lot of hours for doing various things, but you have to know what you're doing with them.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And another exercise that you also are teaching to people is a five minute daily planning session.
So I saw that you promised that we could plan for our days in under five minutes, which sounds exciting to me.
So tell me how I am planning my day in less than five minutes.
Well, this again comes back to just dealing with reality.
The first place you look at is your calendar.
Where are your appointments for the day?
Because that's going to tell you how much time you've got to do tasks.
So if you've got seven hours of back-to-back meetings, forget tasks.
You're not going to do them. You might be lucky to get to your communications, but you're probably going to be eating, drinking coffee, or just exhausted.
But if you don't start with your calendar and start with a to-do list, you could easily write 18, 19 tasks.
Oh, I've got to do this. I've got to do that.
I've got to do this. And then you look at your calendar and go, oh, shoot, I've got six hours of meetings today as well.
Your day is destroyed. So I have this what I call the daily planning sequence, which is first look at your calendar.
That will tell you how much time you've got left for doing to-dos or tasks.
And then build what I call realistic things that you have to do. and then prioritize that list.
Now, this is stolen completely from the Franklin Planner system.
They say 10 to 15 minutes planning and solitude.
With the digital tools that we have today, because a lot of tasks we can set up to recur and stuff on our calendar can recur, you can actually reduce that down to easily five minutes now.
And you just get into the habit of doing that every day.
Now, I say to people, do this the night before.
Because you'll sleep better. You won't wake up as often and go, oh, I've got to do this.
Oh, I've got to do that. You'll just be more relaxed in the evening.
The other thing is, the next day, you're ready to start.
There's none of that, oh, what do I need to do today?
And that just slows you down. It just bangs straight into it.
Yeah, absolutely. So do you have any routines that make you more productive?
I know you are a frequent exerciser. That is something you do, but you do it not in the morning, which I know a lot of our listeners in a podcast called Before Breakfast are morning exercisers, but that's not you.
No, I've never been a morning. I tried it and it just doesn't seem to work very well for me.
I prefer to exercise mid in the afternoon.
At the moment, we're in the summer now, so it's hot and humid.
It's in the 90s and it's probably 80% humidity out there, so it's not pleasant.
So I tend to do it now early evening, but it's only like two or three months of the year where it gets ridiculously hot.
So the rest of the time, I'll do my exercise mid-afternoon.
And what I find there is it's just a nice break.
So I'll get down to doing my focused work in the morning and then I'll do some errands.
Then I'll do my exercise and then I'll come back because I work in the evenings.
So I basically what most people do in the evenings, I do in the afternoon.
Yeah. So I split my day and it works well for me.
Well, certainly, I mean, with being, I mean, overseas, I'm sure from a lot of the people that you're working with, there's the time zone issue for you.
So you kind of have to use your evening hours because that's work hours.
Yeah, it is. So my days will start, I mean, my work days generally start 8.30 and I'll work up until about 11.30, 12.
So I do intermittent fasting as well. So that will be my kind of first meal of the day then.
Then it's usually, as I say, errands, dog walking, exercise.
And then usually I'll come back and do my email later in the afternoon.
And then after dinner, a bit of admin, and then I'm on to doing meetings and calls again.
Yeah, yeah. That does require a little bit of thought for how this pans out.
But I know a lot of our listeners are working with people all over the world these days.
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, well, that's why the perfect week calendar just makes this really simple because now I've designed, I mean, when I first started, I'd say, yeah, I can do that.
I can do it two o'clock in the morning. Oh, I can do 4 a.m. in the morning.
Now I won't because now I realize, no, no, no, I need some structure in my day, which is how the perfect week calendar came along.
I know that Michael Hyatt actually calls it ideal week.
And on his website, he's got a wonderful example of his ideal week.
And weirdly, it's quite similar to mine, actually.
So he kind of splits his day a little bit as well.
Yeah, maybe that's what all of us should do.
But yeah, we were trying to figure out what time we could do this interview.
I was like, Carl, I bet you know. You know when it's good for people to overlap.
So people on the West Coast of the US, I usually find like early morning for me.
Well, when I say early morning, like 9 a.m. my time works well because it's usually about, I think, 4 or 5 p.m. on the West Coast.
And then East Coast, that's actually much easier because that's only 13 hours behind.
So 11 p.m. my time would be 10 a.m. New York time.
So it all works. It all works. All right.
Well, we're going to take one more quick ad break and I will be back with more from Carl.
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That's TonyRobbins.com. Well, I am back talking with Carl Pullein about productivity strategies.
We've been talking about managing our calendars.
So here's a question for you. You've talked about when people are trying to change their habits, it helps to picture change. what they want their lives to look like.
And I know that many years ago, you managed that incredibly difficult thing of quitting smoking, right?
Over the course of a couple of years. And I'm sure there were logistical challenges, but what was it about envisioning that you wanted to be running or exercising still later in life?
I was still exercising, even though I was a smoker.
I was running marathons and I was a smoker.
All right, well, some people are able to do lots of stuff.
Oh, yeah. I mean, the weird thing was, I mean, because it was just, to me, I mean, I think I started smoking probably around 18, 19.
So I'd already been a competitive athlete.
I just went through... I went to boarding school and then suddenly I became... I was out of school.
I'd done all my high school exams and it's like, oh, there's bars.
Oh, there's girls. Oh, there's cigarettes.
Yeah, it's all... Before I probably had a sheltered life and suddenly the world opened up.
And... And pizza, that was a bad one as well because that just, boom, my weight went up like skyrocketed.
But, you know, there comes a point, and I remember being interviewed on a Korean radio station, and I was supposed to be giving advice to, like, young university students, and this student called in to say, you know, I really want to travel, but I know I have to get a job and start my career.
And I just said, no, go and travel now. And the host of the show was a bit surprised because in Korea it was like, no, no, education is so important.
And I'm looking back and I was thinking, no, I made a lot of stupid mistakes in my 20s.
And I am so glad I did it then because the worst time to do it would be now.
Because when you're in your 20s, you tend to think you're immortal.
You're not, but you tend to think you are.
And there's always a good chance you can recover your health.
I'm sure, I mean, I quit smoking a long time ago now.
And when I ever go and have my annual medical checkup, you know, there's no lung disease, there's no heart defects or anything.
But had I quit smoking, say, now, I probably would have done some very long-lasting damage that would be very hard to recover from.
So do all the stupid things in your 20s.
That's the advice I would give to anybody young today, because you've got to find out what you want to do, who you want to be, and that's the best time to do it.
And I'm also very lucky because Facebook, LinkedIn, and all those didn't exist when I was in my 20s.
Absolutely. There'll be some photos of all of us from when we were younger.
Oh, there will be somewhere, but there'll be physical photos locked up in some attic somewhere.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. No, it's true.
I mean, that's the time to do the crazy things.
And I always feel somewhat bad for people who are young doing crazy things because there's, you know, you can wind up with photos following you for the rest of your life.
But one of the things I do tell people is find five people, dead or alive, that you most admire.
And ask yourself, what is it about them that you admire?
There'll be some characteristic trait about them that you will admire.
And one of my writing hero is Ian Fleming.
He created James Bond stories. And I think the thing that really...
I admired about him because of his writing style.
But then I discovered that he would fly off to Jamaica every January.
He had a house in Jamaica. And he'd spend six weeks every morning, 9 till 12, writing the next James Bond book.
Now, that whole thing just lit up me because I'm going, oh, routine, daily routine, three hours writing books.
And I just thought, whoa. And it's always resonated.
That kind of thing resonated. And people like, you know, getting to know about Dwayne Johnson and some of his YouTube videos and LinkedIn videos, oh, sorry, Instagram videos, you know, say, you know, exercise for him comes first every day.
And I go, yeah. I mean, there's no reason why anyone could do that.
Not necessarily have your own gym follow you around the world like he does, but maybe every day I go out for 20 minutes walk every morning or something like that.
It's not difficult, but once it's embedded, it's like brushing your teeth every day.
It's just something that you just do. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
You should see me on an aeroplane, a 15-hour flight.
I'm walking around. Yeah. Nowadays, I wait for people to go to sleep because they'll turn the lights out.
Then I'll start walking. Then you'll start walking.
That's good. What on earth is he doing? Why does he keep walking around?
I thought I better wait until I go to sleep.
Try to get my steps in, of course, of course.
So Carl, I always ask my guests, what is something you have done recently to take a day from great to awesome?
Oh, that's a good question. Tell you what it is, because right now I'm suffering from jet lag, so I'll wake up at like 2 o'clock in the morning.
Now, I could just toss and turn in bed hoping one sleep will come.
I've learned it doesn't, or if it does, it'll come at like 7 o'clock in the morning.
So I just get up, come into the home office, and get my work done.
Now, that time between 2 and 6... It's four hours and I get a ton of work done.
And then the rest of the day when I get hit by, you know, the jet lag really hits in, I can just go back to bed and I have no guilt because all the important work has been done.
And sometimes I'm actually quite disappointed when the jet lag wears off.
I go back to my normal hours because now it doesn't feel quite as easy anymore.
But, wow, if I'm, and I always, I mean, I'm not a great sleeper, but, you know, I often think, well, could I just do that in normal time?
If I wake up at like three and can't get back to sleep, just get up and get on with the work.
At least I can go back and take a nap. But that one is, if you ask something most recent, well, yeah, that was this weekend.
Yes, absolutely. It was a productive weekend.
I could have spent four hours tossing and turning in bed, got up, felt rough all day, and got a lot done.
Or get up now while I feel good, get the work done, and then go back to bed.
Yeah, absolutely. I love it. So Carl, where can people find you?
A best place to find me is at my website, carlpullin.com.
Although these days, apparently you can just type my name in Google and you'll find me apparently.
Yes, yes. But I just tend to say, you can get to me on socials and everything through my website.
It's all there. Sounds good. All right.
Well, Carl, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you to everyone for listening. If you have feedback about this or any other episode, you can always reach me at laura at lauravandercam.com.
In the meantime, this is Laura. Thanks for listening.
And here's to making the most of our time.
Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast.
If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback, you can reach me at laura at lauravandercam.com.
Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia.
For more podcasts from iHeartMedia, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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