For years at Good Inside, we focused on the huge changes that parents go through when they're learning to work with toddlers and young kids.
But, as anyone with an infant can tell you, the ground shifts instantly, newborn in the stretches when everything feels bigger and closer to the surface than you expected and it all feels like it's going to be like that forever.
And nobody prepared you for what's happening inside your body and inside your head.
At Good Inside, we started building something for that.
The first piece is a new podcast called Rattled, a show for when new parenthood shakes you.
Every episode starts with a thought that doesn't quite make it into the group chat.
Thoughts like, why don't I love this?
I miss my old life.
Why is this so boring?
Why didn't any What if I hurt my baby?
We name the thought.
We sit with the guest who lived it.
And we work it out together.
And there is even more for new parents coming from good inside later this spring.
And I'll tell you about it on the other end of today's episode.
Today I want to play you two excerpts. one from each of our first two rattled guests.
First up, Caro Chambers.
You may know her from her cookbook and her sub stack, What to Cook When You Don't Feel Like Cooking.
She's a mom of four.
And in this clip she tells me about a 630 am morning in Carmel California when she woke up and realized nobody told me this would happen.
Tell me a little bit about who Caro Chambers was before your first baby.
Ooh, okay.
I did whatever I wanted whenever I wanted.
That's who I was.
I mean...
Chef's kiss about pre-child life.
Okay.
And at that point in your life, pre-motherhood, paint me a picture, like all the details.
It doesn't even have to be the most representative of a moment before having kids where you're like.
I felt really productive today.
I felt really worthy.
Like I got something done.
Oh, great.
Okay.
So a worthy day pre-kids was like i had a morning routine that i would actually stick to, like i used to set an alarm.
You know, wake up, have cup of coffee exercise, get home, if i like was exercised, bathed hair, ready to go for the day by 9am.
I was like, I'm crushing like this is today will be the best day ever.
And just to stick on that, How many reps do you think your body had of doing that and associating that with worth and productivity before you had a child?
That's such a great, yeah.
I mean, how old was I when I had my first kid?
29.
I would say I started doing that as a young professional living in New York City at 21.
It was like, wake up, exercise, get showered, go to work.
And yeah, so nine years of... Yeah.
So I'm going to make up nine times 300.
Let's say you did 300 days.
Nine times three is 20.
This is like 2,700 reps of doing it.
Mm-hmm. it probably going according to plan because there weren't that many variables.
And then your body learning that was productivity and worth.
I have a feeling we're going to circle back to that.
Okay.
Okay.
Anything that you assumed would just come naturally when you became a mom?
All of it.
I am not like a big Like I'm not like a planner.
I'm extremely opposite of type A. I just kind of roll with things as they come.
And I remember this baby being here and like I felt like a broken shell of a human, you know, like my bladder was all messed up and my boobs were crazy and everything was so messed up in my own body.
That I remember just looking at this baby and being like, they're going to let us take it home?
Like, what?
I don't know how to do it.
Like, I don't know what to do with this thing or what it wants when it cries.
And I felt extremely overwhelmed by that at the beginning.
Like there is so much that happens in your own body and that I had no idea about.
Like I was like, oh, you have the baby and it hurts when you have the baby.
Like I was like, oh yeah, you know, you scream, you get the baby out and then it's over.
No, like you've only.
You know, sometimes that is only just the beginning and that I had no idea about.
So I don't, I think I felt so selfish.
In those first weeks because I thought about myself like all the time, like I thought about oh my gosh, why are my boobs so engorged?
Why is this happening?
Why is that happening?
Am I ever going to pee normally again?
Like, why do I keep peeing myself every time I laugh?
Like, is any of this normal, normal, normal?
And I had no idea that any of that was coming.
So I think I pictured this cozy little bubble with a baby.
And really, I ended up thinking about myself a lot.
Yeah.
The baby was the subject.
Yes.
Like no one told you to think about you.
Yeah, that's exactly it.
I imagined thinking about the baby all the time, having these like cozy, cuddly moments with my husband and the baby.
And yeah, I really felt like I thought about myself a lot more than I...
Yeah.
I want to know if you can take a moment to think about a night, a morning, whatever it was that that's still now for that first child, like you can still remember.
Okay.
So I'm a sleeper.
Well, I was, I used to be a sleeper.
I really slept in this morning and I was like, I used to do this.
Like I used to actually do this.
All the weekends I would like really sleep in.
And I remember very specifically, you know, once the newborn starts to like kind of figure out when they want to wake up for the day, you know,
They go from just sleeping every two hours to having this moment where they actually open their eyes and they're awake for the day.
And it's usually around, I think, two weeks.
I remember at 6.30, this baby was awake and needed to be taken care of and attention.
And I was like, oh, I've... completely changed my life.
Like I, completely like I did not think about the fact that I now, like I don't just get to sleep if I want to sleep.
And I don't just get to go to the gym if I want to go to the gym or, you know, whatever it is.
Like, I have this thing to take care of all the time.
And I remember so specifically, it was like when the baby, like, woke up for the first time.
Where were you?
I was in Carmel, California.
And I was in bed.
And I...
I like so specifically remember, like at first you can always kind of nurse the baby back to sleep, you know, or bottle the baby back to sleep.
And then like all of a sudden, you know, I'd feed him and he was still awake.
And I was like, oh, no.
Oh, this is like a different this is a whole different beast.
Like, what am I supposed to do with you?
Yeah.
I feel like entertain you.
And so you're in bed.
It's dark outside?
Oh yeah, it's dark outside.
It's winter.
It's winter.
But okay, it's 6.30 in the morning.
6.30 in the morning.
And you're not someone who's like the 6.30 rising shiner.
No.
No.
And so even for the first two weeks maybe there was a call out from your baby, but you're like half awake, half asleep, just like nursing back to bed following.
And then you kind of go back.
It's like, kind of, did that happen or not?
It's like a little half conscious.
Exactly.
But this was different.
This is different.
This was like that moment when, all of a sudden, the baby stops being like this squawky newborn and starts being a baby.
And like all of a sudden they are like awake, rise and shine for the day.
And you're like, oh, I wasn't prepared for that.
Yeah.
We're here together now.
And so if I I don't even know if this is the right word had a camera or like something recording inside your brain that first morning at 6 30, when this happened, when you're like this is not going according to plan yeah, what?
What am i hearing?
What's the thought?
Oh well, i definitely remember having some very like big thoughts.
Like i remember thinking like i've completely changed my entire life and like no one really warned me that that was happening.
Like I definitely remember thinking like was I, you know?
Was I actually ready to do this?
Like, was I ready to change, 100% change my life, have somebody else depending on me all the time?
But yeah, I definitely remember just thinking like, whoa, my full life has changed.
And was I ready for this?
And no one told me.
Yeah.
Like, I feel like I signed a contract without...
Like, there was some fine print in there.
Like, they snuck it in.
Where was this?
Yeah.
Exactly.
And just the language you just used really strikes me.
Because when I think about, like, I picture, I remember, it was probably like three weeks in.
And I remember my sister-in-law coming into my room.
I was like, you know, feeding my baby.
And she was just like very innocently like, how's it going?
It's like 4 p.m.
Yeah.
And it was, you know, it was the fall.
So, you know, it was that 4 p.m. like dread.
Mm-hmm, not good, you know, and she didn't.
She was younger than me, didn't have kids, and a little she's like oh okay, then anticipate this conversation.
But i picture my moment which, on the surface, is different than your moment, but there's one moment where the stories you tell yourself are so big yeah, and Am I cut out to do this?
Like, do good parents feel this way?
And I feel like that moment's truth felt like the forever truth.
Like, I was gonna feel this way forever.
That feeling in brand new motherhood is so terrifying and suffocating.
It's the, like, I'm gonna feel this way forever.
It also keeps going into toddlerhood like oh, he's going to act like a little Dementor at dinner, every single night.
Those feelings continue, but there's none as raw as in Brand New Motherhood, when you're like oh, I'm going to feel like I'm not cut out for this or whatever it is.
Yeah.
Or he's going to scream at 4 p.m. every single night for 30 minutes forever.
Yeah.
It feels so intense.
It is.
Suffocating.
Whenever I say that to a new parent around the forever truth, they're like, I know.
Yes.
And that's why it feels so awful, I think.
Right?
Yes, if something felt awful.
But then your next thought was but i won't feel like this forever, like you're like oh, i'm immediately yes, able to deal with it.
And the newborns go through so many stages right, i remember being so addicted to the to the wonder weeks app with my first, because it like kind of tells you you know, Your baby's just learning to open their eyes, so they're seeing the world, so it's overwhelming for them whatever,
It tells you these things.
Since that first baby, I've backed off of that and just been like, this is a moment.
This is a phase.
It might be an hour.
It might be two weeks, but this fussiness is going to pass.
This inability to fall asleep without me being attached to them is going to pass.
I had such bad postpartum anxiety.
I got up and checked on his breathing 20 times a night.
I had all the monitors, the outlet on his foot, the camera looking down at him.
I had all the monitors, and I realize now that that was... perpetuating the problem so much for me.
Because I felt like if I wasn't looking at the monitors, then something bad would happen.
And the solution kind of becomes the problem.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
Because I'd be like out at lunch having really nice time with a friend.
The baby would be perfectly happy.
And I'd be like, I've got to get home.
In 15 minutes, he's going to be overtired, and then he'll never fall asleep.
And then I'd be up all night, and then I'll never sleep, and then I'll turn into a monster tomorrow.
And you really psych yourself out.
You tell yourself these stories of like, if this happens, that'll happen.
And it's usually not true.
Yeah.
When we're in hypervigilance mode, right?
Everything could be a problem.
So everything needs a proactive solution.
Yes.
God, that's exactly it.
I'm happy here with my friend, but this could mean that.
And I got into... like optimizing moments where my baby would be on a play mat.
Oh.
Perfectly happy.
Oh.
And I'm like, I'm going to go, I'm going to go add this thing.
I feel like now when I see them, I was like, when the baby is happy.
Mm-hmm.
Sit down, drink your coffee, call your friend.
Like, no, I wish I didn't.
There's so many moments I have to go to your baby.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Nobody tells you how much of the early weeks is just trying to figure out what actually happened to you.
The next interview sits in a similar place, but with very different texture.
It's with Leah Smart.
A writer, an executive coach and a first-time mom who came on Rattled to talk about something a lot of new parents quietly carry and almost never say out loud.
Intrusive thoughts.
Jarring.
Terrifying thoughts.
Like, what if I hurt my kid?
I know that's a hard sentence to hear.
And it's a real experience for so many new parents.
In this clip, Leah walks me through what actually happened inside her body and brain when those thoughts landed.
And then we talk about what's actually at the root of it.
Listen for the moment where Leah names that directly.
And then we reframe the whole thing together.
This back and forth is what Rattled is built for.
Here's Leah.
I want to actually kind of zone in to a day, to an hour, to a moment here where I don't know.
You just still remember.
Something feels like it shifted, it rattled you.
Tell me about a moment.
When I was about five months, I started having panic attacks going into the subway.
And I'd lived in New York for a long time.
So this was a new thing for me.
And so I was diagnosed with perinatal anxiety.
I saw a maternal psychiatrist.
Which was.
You know?
It's funny, I've dealt with anxiety a lot of my life, but this felt different because I was pregnant, because I didn't know how it would impact the baby, because it felt a little more shameful, because no one had ever told me.
I only knew about postpartum depression, honestly, was all I'd ever really heard about.
So I was dealing with that.
And with that for me came something called intrusive thoughts, which is your own fears of the things basically that matter most, triggering your brain over and over again and getting you into this like really high anxiety mode.
And these are.
You know, these are tough moments, so I also just want to be thoughtful of people who've experienced them and maybe are just hearing right now what they are.
But
I found.
So many women after I'd had my baby in my mom's group I'm on the committee for a mom's group here in the city were like I had these thoughts.
What if I threw my baby out the window?
What if I saw a knife and then I hurt the baby?
What if I hurt myself?
I mean, you know, the what ifs can spin out of control.
And what you learn is, number one, you're triggered by what matters.
If I have an intrusive thought that's like what if I go into a church and scream something blasphemous?
But I'm not religious and I never go to church it'll pass through my mind.
If I have an intrusive thought, that's about this tiny little being that I just gave birth to with my husband, who I love, and I'm making up that I'm the only person in the world who's ever had these thoughts.
It will push you into a different zone and it can just create more anxiety and create distance between you and the baby.
So first of all, thank you for sharing even all that you've shared so far.
And I know you know this, but just naming these thoughts like what if I throw my baby out the window?
You're not the only one.
People listening have had that thought.
And it really is the story we tell ourselves about our thoughts that determines kind of how we feel after right.
But before we get to all the ways that you learn to tell yourself an understandable grounding story, were there hours minutes, seconds at that time that you couldn't find that story?
Oh, my God, yeah.
I mean, I had intrusive thoughts before I was pregnant.
So it got worse, right?
Because something even more important is being put into the story that didn't exist when I was, you know single, or when I just met my husband.
But yeah, oh my God.
I had, I can remember... certain days when I just had space.
And so, you know, I do my morning routine, but that was over by 11, right?
So by 11, I'm like, All right, you know, what am I up to?
And often, again, as I mentioned, my husband was gone on the weekends.
So it was up to me to kind of figure out what I wanted to do.
And some days I just wanted to be on my own.
But some days I was on my own and spinning in intrusive thoughts and going oh my God, oh my gosh, this is scary.
And I had to figure out alone, before I even saw a therapist, what it was, what they were.
What is that spot like?
I'm just going to start with one.
What if I throw my baby a window?
Does my heart start racing?
Do I start thinking about it?
Do I then start saying, what kind of mom has those thoughts?
If I'm inside your brain and body, what's going on?
How could I think that?
What's wrong with me?
Um, the more that you spin it up and you keep going oh my god, i can't believe.
I just had that thought.
What does that mean about me?
Am i okay?
Am i normal?
I'm not normal, and it's that whole thing just keeps going.
And so, um the more that you spin that up, the worse it gets.
It's like telling you not to think about a pink elephant, Right.
We're all thinking about it now, you know?
So it's.
The challenge is that.
But I guess the difference with the pink elephant is if I had a preconceived notion that thinking about a pink elephant meant I was a bad, awful person Exactly.
Then thinking about a pink elephant not only becomes consuming, but it becomes, it almost starts to inform how I think about my identity.
Oh, there's that thought.
I become so scared of the thought.
The last time I had the thought when I was putting the baby down for a nap.
And am I going to have the thought today when we become, I don't know.
Yes.
Okay.
So tell me.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
It's the like obsession with the thing.
Yes.
And the obsession is what creates the spiral, and really the obsession is about the fear of something happening.
It's not wanting it to happen.
If you don't want it to happen and you combine that with the fear and the anxiety, you're going to make it big because of how much it matters.
And that was the biggest turning point for me was The fears I have are actually about the opposite, wanting the opposite.
So, you know, if I fear for my baby or I fear, you know, like, what if I hurt my dog?
You know, whatever.
I love my dog.
I never hurt my dog.
You are not your thoughts.
That's right.
And you do not...
You don't even act on most of your thoughts.
What is it?
Like, I don't know if the number is still 87,000 thoughts a day.
Most of them are, you know, repeated and most of them are negative and most of them are about you.
And so we have a lot of thoughts throughout the day, but most we just kind of let pass through like clouds.
And when we really care about something is when that moment is the moment you get like trapped.
So I had to go find my own answers.
And then the days I would spiral, or the times I would spiral, I would use the things I'd found and go for a walk and listen to you know a book about intrusive thoughts, just to remind myself oh, this isn't real.
So there's a couple of things I want to break down.
I don't know why, but it's a helpful comparison to me.
I'm thinking about I happen to not be too scared of flying, but I know a lot of people who are.
And I'm thinking about being on a plane and someone thinking, I hope the plane doesn't crash.
I hope the plane doesn't crash.
Right?
That thought doesn't make the plane more likely to crash.
And that is such a good example of clearly you're thinking about that obsessively because you don't.
You want to stay alive.
Right?
And so...
If I bring that back here, I think maybe the difference is it feels so charged with this.
Maybe it's going back to what we started with.
You must only have happy feelings about being a mom now.
About life.
About everything.
Exactly.
And so I just want to add it because I think it matters.
I'm thinking about the person listening who took a really long time to get pregnant.
Maybe a lot of losses.
It did you know fertility struggles?
Yeah.
And then the baby's here and they have the thought no, I haven't thought of throwing my baby out the window.
And I'm thinking about I spent X amount.
Yes, what kind of person?
Yeah right, and What I love about your framework is, first of all, with our thoughts and the things we say, the truth is rarely in the words.
Like when I say to my husband, you never help with anything.
Like anyone knows.
If he says well, I took the garbage out yesterday, I'd be like This is like, not a discussion.
We're not going here.
Trust me.
Walk it back.
Because what I want him to understand is I'm overwhelmed with that.
That's it.
And so I just think, and so when I think I'm going to throw this baby out the window, you're saying
That's not the real thing.
The real thing is I love this baby.
And it's so precious and vulnerable and it's in my control.
And that's new.
I've never felt all those things at once.
And my body is kind of telling me, whoa, you care a lot.
This is new.
You're figuring this out.
Right.
And and And how that got translated into words, just like in an argument with my husband gets a little tripped up.
Yeah, they say like the topic is never the topic, right?
So it's like, what's underneath?
And you just said, you're like, this is me saying, I need help.
This isn't about you don't do anything.
This is, I need help.
And so there is like a...
I mean, everything comes back to you, right?
It's like, as we're talking about people who are maybe frustrated with others because they have what they don't have.
It's like it's really all, like I'm throwing this thing onto you and then yeah, I'm getting it mirrored back and it hurts.
And so I have to find a way to get it out without continuing to feel uncomfortable.
Yeah.
I want to ask you a question about those moments, those intrusive thoughts.
How was or was not your partner involved in those?
Did you share them?
Did he know?
How did that go?
No.
I'll tell you what this was like, and then I have a really absurd story about it.
But I am someone who the reason I can sit here and talk to you about it today is because it's processed.
As someone who cares a lot about self-development, and I do seek help and I do want to learn and I do want to understand.
I want to do all of that, but I can't share until something has moved through my body and I can talk about it without going.
Oh my God.
Like, even just now, when I was starting to tell you, I felt my heart race a little.
I was like, oh, I haven't talked about this in a while.
Right.
And like, it is processed.
And, you know, and I'm going to have another baby soon.
And so I might be challenged again.
Maybe not.
I don't know.
But I am, and sometimes to my own, like my own peril.
I mean that feels aggressive, but is I like to do things alone?
I like to go to my therapist and work through something and then I can come back and I can talk about it.
Work through the mess.
Yes, my mess is privately.
Yeah, and then i'm going to share it with you.
Yeah, when i get to that next step, i clean up my side of the street and i don't i don't really share what that looked like before until it's clean.
That's leah smart and It's the show I wish I had when my first kid was a newborn.
And it's the show I most want out in the world now.
If you listen to these clips and felt something light up or just crack open, I want you to do two things.
One, visit and subscribe to the Rattled podcast feed and listen to the full episodes.
The link is in the show notes.
And two send rattle to someone the friend who's pregnant.
The sister-in-law who just had a baby.
The coworker in the third trimester who's been a little too quiet in the group chat.
And yes, please don't forget the dads and the dads-to-be.
And one more thing I promised you at the top.
We have a lot more coming for new and expecting parents at Good Inside later this spring.
A home for the baby years inside the Good Inside app sleep support lactation expertise feeding guidance workshops tools, stuff for your partnership and for you and a whole community talking about their challenges and wins honestly each and every day.
And it's all designed around one core belief.
The best way to take care of a baby is to take care of the person holding the baby.
If you want to be the first to know when Good Inside Baby fully launches.
I really want to be able to tell you.
And you can find that link in the show notes as well.
Until next time, place your feet on the ground, a hand on your heart, and remind yourself even as we struggle on the outside, we remain good inside.
I believe in you.
You've got this.
And I'll see you soon.
