Welcome to the overwhelmed brain podcast, helping you navigate the difficulties in your life and relationships.
These are my personal opinions.
Always seek a professional when you're making choices about your mental health.
And welcome.
I'm going to be a little direct in this episode in some ways because of the nature of the topic.
I'm going to read you a message and you'll find out why in a moment.
Good morning, Paul.
We exchanged emails a little while ago and since that time, my husband and I have continued to struggle with the incident that happened then.
We've been together a good two decades and we have some good moments.
Since then, he has continued to feel that i betrayed him when i greeted a man i previously worked with in public with a brief hug and kiss on the cheek, And I introduced this person to my husband right away, but the situation has remained a source of deep hurt for him.
And so just recently, I planned something special for us and I scheduled a one-hour body massage for both of us.
I had a female therapist and my husband had a male therapist.
And during the session, my therapist adjusted the blanket and worked on my glute area.
My husband later said that he felt the situation was inappropriate.
Her husband says to her, you seemed aroused and you were disrespectful to me.
She sensed the tension in the room and asked to end the session early.
She apologized, but the situation escalated.
Afterward, my husband broke up with me and said he felt that I had cheated on him.
In the car.
He called me very hurtful names and said this is why he wanted to flirt with or be with other women.
I left the house because I was afraid the argument might escalate the way it has in the past.
Now, here's the tough part.
In the previous incident, during an argument, my husband broke my jaw and I required surgery.
He has always said that happened by accident, because I continued trying to talk to him when he wanted space.
Because of that history, I felt it was safer for me to leave the house this time.
Yes, it was absolutely safer for you this is me talking now to get away from somebody who is capable of laying their hands on you in a violent way.
You absolutely did the right thing.
You needed to leave that situation.
She goes on, since I left, this situation has remained very painful.
He has told me that I broke his heart, that I never respected him and that, while his feelings matter, mine no longer do.
Since he left, he opened up a social media account and locked his phone, which has been very triggering for me because social media and trust have always been issues between us.
I recognize that I also developed unhealthy behaviors in the relationship.
I became controlling at times such as checking his phone or feeling anxious about him speaking with other women.
Well, of course.
Of course, you became anxious and insecure about that, because it sounds like that's what he was doing.
This is Paul being real right now.
That sounds like he was setting you up to feel this way, because that's what he was doing, or at least Making you not feel secure enough in the relationship because of stupid crap he says about.
This is why I wanted to flirt with other women.
This is the things that you do make me want to see or flirt with other women.
Nobody normal and healthy says that.
They do that to control and manipulate.
They say things like that so that you will feel like you always have to catch up and be better, even though you have nothing to be better for.
When people have insecurities about somebody looking on their phone at other women or being in touch with other women and that same person has said things like this is why I want to flirt with other women, then he's giving you every reason not to trust him.
So your reasons are justified.
And we haven't even talked about the broken jaw yet.
And that is one of the main issues here.
But all of this is compounding into a worst case scenario for you.
So let's continue this.
Earlier in our relationship, when we fought, I sometimes coped by going out drinking with friends and returning home intoxicated.
In 2018, I made a commitment to stop doing that and I significantly changed my lifestyle, focusing almost solely on my marriage.
Right now he feels that I am blaming him instead of taking responsibility, while I feel that The way the situation was handled afterward caused additional harm.
I believe we could have addressed the massage situation together by speaking with management if something felt inappropriate, rather than it leading to a breakup and verbal attacks.
What I'm struggling with right now is understanding whether what I'm experiencing is a normal breakup or something more complex, given the history of abuse and control in our relationship.
I also find myself constantly worrying about what he might be doing or who he might be speaking with on social media, even though I need to focus on my own healing.
I know I need to do that.
I'll be starting therapy and by the time we're reading this now she's already in therapy and wanted to provide some context beforehand to let you know I finally left.
Okay, so this is a follow-up from another message that I received a few months back, and she's following up telling me she finally left.
God, you finally left.
I'm going to be straight up with you here.
This is a physically and emotionally dangerous person.
You already know this.
That's why you left.
But right now you're struggling with the question, is this a normal breakup or something?
No, this is not normal.
This is not a normal breakup.
It's not normal for an insecure man to suddenly become jealous and freak out because you kiss another man on the cheek and who was right in front of him at the time, because you're a friendly, kind person who wants to introduce a coworker or a former coworker to somebody that you care about your husband.
And you are displaying normal behaviors in front of somebody that you care about.
It would be like saying I love my husband so much and I want to introduce this person that I also care about but don't love in the same way, because my husband is important to me and the people in my life are important to me.
And because my husband is important to me, I want to introduce those people together.
It's just a normal, everyday, healthy thing that normal people do.
You don't have to feel bad.
You don't have to think I should have done that differently because that's who you are.
You are the person that hugs and maybe kisses someone on the cheek.
Like a mom kisses a child on the cheek.
It's so innocent.
So I see a grown man, your husband, acting like a child, wanting to get what he wants, feeling so insecure about your behaviors with another man that really equate to being kind and showing respect and showing love and connection, but not in a sexual way, not in a romantic way in your way, in your friendly kind supportive, loving way toward another human being.
And if your husband, as a man, is too insecure to see you being friendly with a man that's right in front of him?
What is he thinking when you're out and about by yourself?
Those thoughts must be rolling around in his head all the time, probably making him angry, possessive and jealous and causing him to be the way he is, which is manipulative and controlling and trying to guilt you and trying to make you feel bad for being who you are, completely unaccepting of who you are.
And there's also the other side of this, which is he wants to do these things.
He admitted it.
It's not like he was hiding it.
He says, this is why I want to flirt.
No, that's not why he wants to flirt with other women.
He wants to flirt with other women because he wants to flirt with other women.
That's what he... I would never say that to my wife as a threat of any kind.
If she said, I saw this guy.
He was really attractive.
And we got to know each other.
And I hugged him and said goodbye.
And I'll probably see him once or twice here and there.
But he was really cute.
If she said that...
The last thing I'd say is, you see, this is why I want to flirt with other women.
I want to go out and meet attractive women and hug them and kiss them on the cheek.
Doesn't make any sense.
I would never say that.
Now, if I were at all insecure about that, I might say that makes me a little uncomfortable.
If I were insecure about that, I would say that makes me a little uncomfortable.
You just met him and you hugged him and kissed him on the cheek.
You know, we'd have a conversation about it.
But when I pull out the I'm going to flirt with women myself card no, something else is going on there.
That's a major insecurity inside of him that he needs to deal with.
Or he's already doing it.
And he wants the focus to be on you.
Like, oh, you're flirting with men.
And he doesn't want you to point out that he flirts with women.
You already said that he locked his phone.
And I don't think I read this out loud, but you said that there were problems in the past with his phone and maybe women with that too.
So there's already an issue there.
And we got to remember that.
Some people project onto you what they are doing themselves.
Meaning, at least in the way I define projection, is that someone will blame you for doing what they're doing.
Just so that you will spend your time explaining and defending yourself, so that you don't focus on them doing it.
And, in fact, by telling you that you're doing it or accusing you of doing something that they're doing, they're hoping that, because you see that they find that behavior wrong or immoral or unethical or whatever, that you wouldn't necessarily turn around and accuse them of the same thing, because they came up with the idea that what you're doing is wrong.
And so if they said what you're doing is wrong, then they must believe it's wrong, so they wouldn't possibly do it themselves.
But the truth is, people who project what they're doing onto you want you to be the center of attention.
They don't want to be the focus.
They don't want to be the center of attention because they don't want to get blamed for what they're doing.
So they blame you for what they're doing.
They project onto you like a film projector that they are playing a movie on your forehead, and whatever's playing on your forehead is who you are.
That's kind of how I see projection.
Whatever they're doing that they don't want to be accused or blamed of meaning taking responsibility for.
They will accuse or blame you of doing it.
And that keeps the attention off of them.
And again, when somebody does that, it appears that oh, they must know right from wrong, so I can't accuse them of doing that.
It's a psychological trick.
And don't fall for it.
Don't fall for the projection.
I think I talked about this in a recent episode.
Don't fall for somebody accusing and blaming you for something where you feel like you have to explain or defend yourself.
Because if you are spending time blaming and defending yourself for something you know you didn't do, then you are just wasting the time they want you to waste, because they know you want to prove your innocence.
So if you're sitting there trying to prove your innocence, then think twice.
Think this doesn't feel right.
Why would they accuse me of this?
I've never caused them to be suspicious about this, or at least they shouldn't be suspicious about anything that they're telling me that I'm doing because I'm not doing it.
It doesn't make sense.
I like what Judge Judy used to say.
She used to say, if it doesn't make sense, it's not true.
That's a good way to look at it.
If it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true.
So keep that in mind if you find yourself explaining and defending yourself.
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Let's talk about the broken jaw.
After that, after somebody hurts you, puts their hands on you and literally breaks your bones or breaks the joints holding your bones however, your jaw was broken.
This person said.
Her husband said it was her fault that that happened.
Basically what he's saying it's your fault because you wouldn't leave me alone.
And he said it was an accident because she continued trying to talk to him when he wanted space.
Okay, but did you touch him?
Did you push him?
Did you smack him?
Because, in my reality, unless somebody hurts you, you shouldn't hurt them back.
And it doesn't sound like you physically touched him or pushed him or punched him or smacked him.
It just sounds like you were trying to talk to him.
And sure, that might have been annoying if he wanted his space.
Absolutely.
It would annoy me if I wanted space in my wife.
Kept saying, well, I want to keep talking.
She was following me around the house.
I want to keep talking.
I closed the door and she was talking through the door.
It would annoy the hell out of me, but I'm not going to break her jaw.
I'm not going to hurt her because sticks and stones.
And I'm not trying to make you feel bad about this.
I know you already do.
And I'm not trying to say that you did anything wrong.
I'm trying to say that what you've been convinced of is incorrect.
If he convinced you that it was your responsibility and your fault that your jaw got broken, then I'm here to say that He bamboozled you.
He conned you into believing it was your fault.
That's like saying I'm going to come at you with a knife and if you don't move it's your fault for getting stabbed.
Or if you don't move fast enough, it's your fault for getting stabbed.
But I'm coming at you with a knife, so don't blame me.
You see me.
I have the knife.
So if you don't move, it's your fault for getting stabbed.
The problem isn't that you have to move.
The problem is that someone's coming at you with a knife.
There's the problem.
There's the problem.
So never think that your broken bones, someone's violent, aggressive attack on you was your fault, when all you did was want to talk or follow them around the house.
I mean we're also talking about.
Most men are typically stronger than women, and most men need to learn how to control themselves around anyone, not just women, anyone.
So if he has that kind of temper that turns into physical aggression, It is absolutely imperative that you stay away from somebody who hasn't learned to control that.
So again, this is telling you that leaving was the right thing to do.
And a couple more things I want to bring up here.
You said that you started drinking and you were coping by drinking and going out with friends.
Honestly, it probably felt great trying to forget what you were dealing with at home.
But then you made a commitment to stop doing that.
And you made changes.
You made lifestyle changes.
And then you started focusing on your marriage, which is what we're all supposed to do when we have a relationship that is having problems and we want it to persist and continue and grow and strengthen.
That's what we focus on.
We focus on the issues in the relationship.
The problem here is that the focus was only from one person.
This was a one-sided arrangement where you wanted the relationship to heal and he wanted the relationship the way he wanted it.
And that's different than wanting it to heal.
And that's different from working together to make things right, to balance things up.
Because if one person is working on the relationship and the other person wants it the way they want it, regardless of the other person's thoughts or feelings about the relationship, then it's a one-sided situation.
And when you are in a one-sided relationship, you are in a relationship that's sinking.
And yes, the double meaning there is purposeful.
A relationship lists, it sinks in one side when that one side is not working on it.
A relationship that's not being worked on will not stay afloat.
It will be unbalanced.
It will be listing to one side.
Now let me get to near the end of this person's message.
She said I'm struggling understanding whether what I'm experiencing is a normal breakup or something more complex, given the history of abuse and control in our relationship.
It's complex because of the history of abuse and control in your relationship.
What does a normal breakup look like?
There aren't many.
Honestly, there aren't many normal breakups.
We all kind of break up differently.
We all do it differently.
But without abuse and without control and manipulation and all that.
It is usually something you can walk away with a tad bit more unscathed, a tad bit less emotionally and in this case, physically wounded.
So to answer your question, it's not that it's complex.
It's just that you experienced severe trauma or at least moderate to severe trauma.
And it's complex dealing with the emotions and the thoughts around that and what you went through and what you could have had versus what you did have, what you regret, what you thought you should have done better.
Some people look at their relationship and say, I lost all those years.
And so there's all these thoughts and feelings that come with any type of breakup or divorce.
So yes, abuse makes it more complex because a trauma bond can form, which means you still have feelings about the person that you've been with.
You actually love the person who is abusing you and you equate love with abuse and it becomes intertwined and entangled.
It's a big problem because your self-worth can come from the person who abuses you, who gives you slivers of feeling worthy and important.
But what they're doing is they're baiting you into more abuse.
And so that creates what's known as a trauma bond.
And that's why it can be more complex because trauma bonds are hard to break.
Because you look to the person who hurt you for your source of love and connection and worth and all the things that make you feel good inside, that we're supposed to have inside of us, that abuse victims often lose.
Because those things are being abused out of them all your worth, all your self-worth, your ability to trust your own decision making being abused out of you.
And then when those things are abused out of you, The abuse victim will look to the other person in their life who is abusing them for those things.
Again, it's an entanglement of a mix of love and abuse.
It's the same name of my other podcast, Love and Abuse.
This is the kind of stuff I talk about over there normally.
And it's difficult.
It's difficult to get out of the trauma bond and it requires you to be far enough away from the person who traumatized you enough to reconnect with yourself, to figure out who you are without them in your life.
And that's what this person who wrote to me needs to do.
You need to figure out who you are without this person in your life.
Who are you without abuse in your life?
Who are you without the fear of this other person in your life?
And redefining what love looks like.
And rebuilding your self-worth because again it was abused out of you and when it's taken from you or pushed out of you like that you do need to rebuild sometimes from the ground up you'll lose yourself you become a shell of your former self in this kind of situation And you can do this.
You said you were starting therapy, and I'm hoping that you are talking about this in therapy, because it's so important to understand just how wonderful you are and how important you are, and never to believe the words of one person who makes you feel less than who you really are.
Because that one person has his own issues.
He needs to deal with his own issues on his side.
If he has all these problems with you, this is what I say on my other show all the time.
If somebody who abuses you has all these problems with you, why do they stay?
If you're the problem, why are they staying?
You're not the problem.
You're the target of control.
You're not the problem.
You're the target of their power trip because they want to be able to control you.
Because if they really had a problem with you, if somebody is somewhat mentally healthy and they had a problem with you, they would probably either have a conversation saying, hey look, I have this problem.
Let's talk about it.
Or they would leave because they don't want to deal with the problem, because the problem's not changing.
So even if you were the worst person on earth, why would somebody stick around?
That just tells me.
There are people who stay with other people just to control them, just to keep their power.
Because if they can find somebody to control, then what ends up happening is they compensate for the insecurities inside themselves, because controlling somebody makes them feel secure.
So the last question this person asked is I also find myself constantly worrying about what he may be doing or who he might be speaking with on social media, even though I know I need to focus on my own healing.
That just tells me that you hope that maybe someday he'll see that he has damaged you, he has hurt you, and that he'll change his ways and come back and beg for forgiveness.
You may not think that.
But maybe deep down inside, that's what you hope.
Because if you still have thoughts and feelings about who he's looking at or who he's talking to, that tells me that you were, or you still are, trauma-bonded to him and that you are hoping that you can get that feeling of importance of being loved.
And it's very difficult when somebody makes you feel unloved and makes you feel unimportant and unworthy.
And when you get that from the person who's hurting you, many victims of abuse will continually seek it over and over again from that same person.
So when it comes their way, They love it.
It's a good feeling because they've been experiencing all this other abusive behavior and then suddenly they feel connected and loved and important to the person who has been abusing them.
That it feels like a drug, like it's a high, and they want that high again.
And so they seek it from the person who hurts them.
It's their emotional drug dealer.
And that happens.
So if you, the person who wrote, if you're constantly worrying about what he might be doing and who he might be speaking with on social media, those feelings of insecurity are I'm going to make an assumption here, an educated assumption those feelings of insecurity that you have based on a false belief that your worth comes from him.
They're based on a false belief that you can only find worth and you can only feel important and loved from the person who hurt you, because i have a feeling he has probably convinced you that you'll never find anyone better than him, that he's the best that you're gonna get.
That's what happens is that we start to believe that the person who is abusive and hurtful and controlling is the best that we can do, because if they're hurtful and abusive and controlling, then other people must be worse, because at least I found somebody who wants to be with me.
So other people must be worse than that and they don't want to be with me.
So if this person wants to be with me, this must be the best I can get.
It's just, it's bullshit.
It's bullshit.
And I don't want you to go the rest of your life thinking that this person, who has no problem saying it's your fault that he broke your jaw, who has such insecurities that he can't feel comfortable with you and another man in the same room where you kiss their cheek or where you can't even enjoy a massage Because he can't get over the fact that you might actually enjoy yourself and it has nothing to do with sex or anything like that.
Which again highlights something that he may already have in his head.
It's like somebody I know who lies a lot to his customers.
This is nobody you know.
I've not talked about him before, but there's somebody I know that lies to his customers.
He's a business owner, lies to his customers, charges more than he says he's going to charge and finds ways to overcharge them in many circumstances.
He lies to them all the time.
And this guy... feels like everyone's lying to him.
It's the same idea.
He projects onto others what he is doing himself to others.
He thinks that people are lying to him and scamming him when he is the one doing it to others.
So his reality, his perceptions and perspective of other people all look like the way he treats others.
So remember this.
If you are being blamed or accused and you have to defend yourself about something that you can't figure out where they got it from, like why are you saying this about me?
You could be witnessing someone's projecting onto you.
So to the person who wrote, thank you for sharing this.
I am so sorry for what you went through.
I do hope that this therapy is helping you.
I do hope that you are becoming stronger and becoming more empowered, regaining your power, because you deserve so much more than what you've been through.
Thanks for listening to another episode of the overwhelmed brain.
I want to thank our patrons, Ashley and Steven.
Yeah, there's only two today.
That's all right.
There are so many people that support this show.
I am so grateful.
Thank you patrons.
I appreciate you.
And if you value this show, like these patrons do, head over to more to becom, and you can give back if you are so inclined.
And I mentioned it earlier for a show on how to navigate difficult relationships.
Listen to my other podcast called Love and Abuse over at loveandabuse.com.
And if you know you're the difficult one in the relationship, Maybe that person's husband is listening now.
Join the program that is helping a lot of people heal over at healedbeingcom, where many people and relationships have healed.
And that might be your only chance.
If you're listening and you need this, that might be your only chance.
Again, healedbeing.com.
And with that, always keep your mind open because that's how you make the best decisions.
And be firm in your decisions and actions so that you can create the life you want.
Always take steps to grow and evolve.
You are powerful beyond measure.
And above all, and this is something I absolutely know to be true about you, You are amazing.
