Discussion keeps the world turning.
To some, Xizang is considered secret remote, untouched by modernity, like a postcard frozen in time.
But 75 years ago, peaceful liberation set in motion a transformation that shattered that very image.
So in today's show we are peeling back the labels and demystifying the region for what it really is.
And then China has dozens of hot pot styles and the industry around them is massive.
And now the city of Chongqing brings new moves to standardize the flame.
We'll dig into the delicious broth quite literally today, with Niu Hongli and Steve Hadley on the table.
Coming to you from our studios in Beijing, this is Roundtable, and I'm your host today, Fei Fei.
And first, on today's show...
For many outside of China, Xizang is remote, isolated and touched by modern life, a place quite frozen in time.
But here is the reality check.
Since the region welcomed its peaceful liberation 75 years ago, those labels no longer fit.
So what does modern life in Xizang actually look like, when you stop looking from a distance and start looking through the eyes of the local people?
We'll talk about it today.
So welcome Steve and Hong Ling onto the show.
It's a big topic, but quite interesting.
Hold on.
But...
Don't just skip over this is your first live show.
I'm not trying to make it dramatic.
Yay.
Roundtable podcast at QQ.com.
Send your emails congratulating Feifei on her first live show and send messages of support to her, please.
We are excited for you.
Thank you.
Quite a great topic as well.
So good debut.
Yeah.
And also it's a perfect lineup for today's topic as well, I think.
Because Steve, have you been to Shizan before?
No.
So I'm going to be the learner of the group today.
And Hong Ling, you are like the frequent flyer between Beijing and Lhasa.
Not as frequent as Lai Ming.
If I remembered, he has been there for three times.
For me, three by now, expecting to pay more visit.
It's a magical place.
So I'm sort of in between of you guys.
I think I've been there once or twice.
So we can be the ones explaining or learning as well about the region too.
So first of all, let's start with some of the basic information about Xizang first of all.
I think one of the biggest misunderstandings when it comes to the Xizang autonomous region, especially for people outside of China, is that Xizang only has
Tibetan people?
That's definitely not true.
When it comes to the people living in Tibet.
Actually, we know that there are around 314 million Tibetans we're talking about the ethnic group making up roughly 86 of the total population.
And there are other ethnic minorities, By saying minorities, I mean comparing to the 86%.
And they account for around 1.8%.
And you can see the Han population stood at roughly 12%.
And ethnic groups like the Mona, the Loba.
I have actually visited a village before because it's a small village and the majority of people there are the Loba people, so that ethnic group and they have one of the most beautiful costumes I've ever tried.
I've seen the picture of you wearing that.
Yes, yes, I tried that and I learned... weaving their traditional technique.
So the Loba people are there, Naxi people, Hui Nu many different peoples are living in the beautiful area of Xizang.
And for those of you who are not that familiar with the place, we know that Xizang Autonomous Region has a lot of different milestone dates or milestone stages when it comes to The peaceful liberation of Xizang that happened on May 23 1951.
That is the time it's declared as peaceful liberation, meaning that no people there are in the state of being a slave of anybody, of having no rights, of not able to receive education, cannot have any political activities, as in when it comes to voting or anything.
So that is the stopping point of that, and also later the first session of the first people's congress of the xinjiang townhouse region was held in lhasa from September 1 to 9 1965, marking the official establishment of the autonomous region.
So many milestone periods and from that period we get to see, the region has already started entering the fast development lane in the sense of economic development, ecological protection, the livelihoods of its people, of all the people from different ethnic groups living in Xizang.
The people of the different different ethnic groups they have.
And I apologize in advance because I think a lot of my questions might be quite stupid today or at least seem a little bit ignorant.
So I'll apologize for that.
But I'm wondering about the number of languages that are spoken.
In the region with so many, you have a dominant group percentage-wise 86, but then you have a number of other ethnic groups represented too.
All speaking the same language or all speaking their own separate languages?
In fact, they have multiple languages in the sense that yes, some of them speak Tibetan language, many of them, in fact.
But among those many people speaking Tibetan languages, if you're talking to a relatively younger generation, they also speak Mandarin, which allow them to receive education from outside, outside of the region, communicate with people outside of the region doing business, going to trips.
So they are bilingual in that sense.
And I think many of them speak really good English.
When I meet them on the show and I ask them to speak English, they do that too.
Oh, so when you both had your business trips there, you didn't have any problems with communication at all.
Well, it depends on the older generation, especially when you are talking about people that are not of the Tibetan ethnic groups.
For example, when it comes to Loba and Moba people, they have their own language, which is very different from the Tibetan language.
But when it comes to sort of the common language in the region, it sort of is bilingual.
You can both speak the Tibetan language or the Mandarin Chinese.
It's very bilingual because if you're walking on the street, you're looking at the billboards, you're looking at the signs on the street.
They are mostly always bilingual.
And there has been a different trend in different stages.
At the very beginning, especially for the younger generation, because they want to have better communication with people outside of the region.
You get to see them learning Mandarin and trying to have better opportunities.
And that was the main trend.
But these days I think the past couple of years or even past decade they not only would preserve and use their local language, their own language, in everyday life, but they find different ways to to nourish the language and culture and to demonstrate them in different ways, including different stage performances and including trying to find out the historical documents in Tibetan language and collect them and put them in a library.
Study them because, like any language, you cannot have a language that is fixed for hundreds of years.
They evolve as well.
So you have.
It's not like ancient Tibetan language, but you have the language used for ancient people that are in different forms.
But at that time, because the majority, especially before the peaceful liberation of Xizang, the majority of people using Tibetan language, when I say use, I mean, not only orally, but also in written language, being able to be literate, that's the definite minority.
It's the so-called noble people at the time, it's the monks.
It's So most of the people in that region before the peaceful liberation was illiterate.
Exactly.
And that's why not a lot of written documents are there.
And studying it and preserving it and finding a way to even digitalizing it now is the new trend.
The younger generation is trying to revive their culture in that way.
And I've actually met a young couple in Lhasa that they're developing their own children's picture book in the Tibetan language.
They're also having courses teaching young children in the city of Lhasa.
And they are importing very classic picture books like the colorful caterpillar or the brown bear.
Brown bear, what are you?
Hungry caterpillar.
Yeah, the hungry caterpillar.
Sorry, I forgot the name.
And also they are trying.
I think the last time I talked to them they're also trying to develop their own picture book based on their local culture.
For example, when it comes to the yak dan, you know of the, you know the dan of the yak that are very important for Tibetan culture.
And they're trying to make a picture book based on that so that the children can learn about their traditional culture.
And that, I think, is sort of built on a sound foundation of development.
When you have, you know you're not suffering from self-doubt, you have your freedom, you have your economic income growing every year and then you can start thinking about you know my identity, my local culture and then teaching them to the, to the to yeah, thinking about art and teaching to the young children.
So i think that's also one part.
Uh, that can be one of the misunderstanding about xizang is Xizang is remote and underdeveloped for some people.
But actually what is the real economic developed situation in Xizang in recent years?
Well, let's talk about 2025.
We see the economy of the Xizang autonomous region continue to grow steadily.
Eight major economic indicators, including GDP growth, industrial output, fixed asset investment.
All these have seen growth good, steady growth.
And, according to the official data, the GDP surpassed 300 billion yuan and that is roughly 44 billion US dollars in the year 2025, up 7 year on year.
Now we know the national GDP growth rate is 5%, registered 5% last year.
So it's It's growing faster than the national average.
Yes.
And when it comes to consumer spending, it's also picking up.
And total retail sales of consumer goods exceeded 107 billion yuan.
That is... nearly 16 billion US dollars.
And that's also above the national average.
When the national average stands at 3.7%, we see the figure in season is 4.4% year on year.
So with that comes more disposable income for the citizens of the region, too.
In 2025, per person, the disposable income in Xizhang was 33,600 yuan.
That's about $5,000.
That's a significant number because that's an increase of over 7% from the previous year.
So, good news, the region is growing.
Good news, more money for people to spend in the region, too.
I'm curious to know though, about the local economy, because my knowledge is limited yes, but from what I do know about the region.
You have the, I mean, Xizhang itself makes up a large part of the Qinghai-Xizhang Plateau, right?
That's called the Roof of the World.
That's how people refer to it.
The average elevation there is over 4,000 meters above. above sea level.
So I'm curious to know about the local economy, how people make their money, what types of things they do for business.
It is a very reasonable question but the answer verifies, based on the region, based on the stages we're talking about.
Because this year marks the 75th anniversary of the peaceful liberation.
But after the peaceful liberation There have been different stages.
Traditionally, agriculture is well actually, still till today, agriculture has to be the pillar industry in that region.
But you also have to consider the fact that it is the roof of the world.
If we're talking about Lhasa, it's over 3,700 meters above sea level.
Which makes agriculture quite the challenge then.
Precisely because of the lack of oxygen in the air, because of the drastic temperature difference between different seasons and also Day and night.
As well, yes.
Big temperature swings at that elevation.
And if you think about it, at least for the first several decades, in Xizang the main staple food, the main grains, has to be the barley rice, which is not that popular in other area of the country.
Which means yes, you can use it as a staple food, but if you use it as your main economic staple food, you want to export it.
It can be a little bit hard.
And let's do not forget that the entire area of Xizang, because of the high on the high it is on the high plateau area the ecological environment is actually quite vulnerable and we do not want to do too much to disturb the ecology, since it's very, very precious um scientific area and environment for not only the entire country but the entire world, since you mentioned, the Mount Himalaya was there and it's literally there.
I've seen it with my bare eyes when I was... Oh, did you?
Yes, it's very... In the city of Rukaza.
Rukaza, yes, Rukaza.
It was...
I think if you want to climb it, there is a base that you can enter and you can prepare yourself with all the gadgets and everything.
And it is also a national park.
In a sense.
So I was at the gate, kind of like the gate of the national, of the checking point.
And I saw the peak.
It was...
It was exactly like in the picture.
But when you are also in the picture, looking at the mountain, the peak in the picture, it's a totally strange feeling, especially when at that point I think I was at around 5000 meters above sea level.
You were already really high up.
Yep, and I was a little bit dizzy and...
Yeah, I had headache and I cannot, I could not breathe.
Well, even I have already been used to over 4000 meters.
5000 meters, a different story.
And I feel like wow, I get to know why of many, many people when they look at it directly with their naked eyes.
Of course it's magnificent, it's great and at the same time, when you're short of oxygen, your feeling gets, you know, even more magical.
Yeah, And that's the precise question that I want to ask.
You know, when you were talking about 4000, 5000 meters above sea level, people get a lot of high altitude sickness.
Headache is the light symptoms.
We're talking about some people may even throw up when they reach that kind of altitude.
So doing anything...
I guess, on the plateau is challenging.
That is why at the very first stages, it was still more agriculture, not a lot of heavy industries.
But you also know that In a place like this, the solar resources would be very abundant.
It will be such a waste if we do not have new energy industries in that place.
But thinking about the easiest...
Or the most obvious problem is that you need all the equipment transported to Xizang.
And that's the question that I want to pose to you guys.
This is about.
The third misunderstanding about Xizang is that it's isolated and difficult to access, which I guess before, especially 75 years ago, was true.
Yeah, I was going to say there must have been a point in time when that would have been a true statement, difficult to access with the elevation being what it is.
Yeah, and also, when you travel, needing to travel, to Xizang, no matter where you decide to depart, you need to go through mountains of thousands of meters high.
And before we have modern technology, of course, it will be challenging.
But now, I guess a lot of things have changed, especially when it comes to China, we have a saying about 想支付先修路, if you want to get rich, build a road first.
So that is, I think, one of the top priorities for China, especially after the peaceful liberation of the Shizhong Autonomous Region building roads, building up transport networks.
When we talk about getting access to Shizong, I think the most important and significant famous as well road, or it can be a highway as well as a railroad.
That'll be the Shizong.
Qinghai or Ningxia Lhasa area.
That area has been completed relatively earlier, but they haven't stopped from there.
They wanted to link different regions, different places, different counties, different cities in the region.
And that is why, in 2021, the Lhasa-Ninji railway, which is a key segment of the Sichuan-Xizang line we were talking about, was completed.
And a journey from Ninji to Lhasa now took only three hours.
And the reason I'm talking about this is that in, let's say, 10 years ago or 20 years ago, when we talk about the transportation, we talk about how to move people from outside of Tibet into Tibet.
So that trip that took three hours with that new railway at that time, how long would that have taken before overnight at least?
And that is what I'm talking about because both Ningqi and Lhasa are in Xizang.
Now, the focus of the conversation when it comes to the accessibility of transportation has already moved from getting people from outside of Xizang to in Xizang to improving the mobility of people in Xizang autonomous region so that they can transport easier, so they can have the so-called one day or two day living circle within Xizang and they can have better communication with people in the region and outside of the region.
By the end of 2024, the region had almost 1,400 kilometers of operational railways.
And that is an absolute game changer for the economy, but it's a game changer for how people live, are able to live their lives.
And we mentioned earlier about transporting the important opponents of, for example, solar power industry and also um, i think, wind power as well.
You have the huge, huge turbines and you have to transport them into the region so it can be installed, so it can allow the region to have related industries.
And that means what's funny about it is this one little detail is that we know it has to cross a lot of mountains as well as rivers.
And it means that you need to have larger, heavier bridges and also larger tunnels so that the huge wind turbines can go through, can pass through.
And then having them... installed in the areas that is abundant with wind and solar resources.
And that is now another very important industry in Xizang.
Yeah.
And also when it comes to this clean energy.
I think Xizang is now, especially in this year or last year, in recent years is now known for its clean energy.
Do you know, Steve, that Lhasa is actually in the Tibetan language means the city of sunlight.
And that tells that how much of a solar energy resources the region boasts.
But I think, at the same time, when we are having more and better transportation, that not only railways but, for example, when it comes to roads now, pretty much every township in the region now have access to roads.
And also when it comes to air travel.
You can also fly to Lhasa from different cities individually in the country.
And then fast forward to the current days, Xizang is no longer just about agriculture.
It also has digital technology.
So what is the current role of digital technology in the Xizang region that we are seeing?
For example.
I'll give you the bigger picture a little bit later, but when I was visiting, one thing that we saw was a live streaming base.
In Xizang.
In Lhasa?
I think in Lhasa, yes.
And the idea is that so many people are doing live streaming.
So many people are selling goods and also buying goods through these e-commerce platforms.
And they need to help them know how to be a better live streamer.
Yeah.
And they need to...
So that's the idea.
And in order to achieve that reality, we know that you need to have a good foundation.
And Cezanne had built around 72000 mobile-based stations, while more than 94 of administrative villages were covered by 5G networks.
5G, not just real.
Yeah, not dial-up modem internet.
So when you travel to Shizan, don't think about no coverage.
The region has pretty sound coverages.
Oh, over 280000 rural households gained broadband internet access, helping even remote communities connect more easily with the outside world.
And they have their logistics centers because of the e-commerce platforms, the e-commerce industry.
And also, since we talked about Cezanne being in a very special geological condition, a lot of, a lot of research has to be conducted in Xizang, meaning that, if you want to, very rapidly communicating with scientists outside of the region, but within your area, they are able to do that as well.
And one other thing about technology's perk in Xizang is that education and medical cooperation.
Because, when it comes to education yes, a lot of international meetings and summits and different types, online or offline, can be conducted because we have that foundation.
And when it comes to medical cooperation, a lot of doctors knowing the technique helping, diagnosing patients or even conduct remote operations surgeries.
It happened in September of last year.
It was actually the world's first 5G-enabled robot urological surgery.
That happened at an altitude of 4,500 meters at a hospital there.
And the operation itself, it was carried out by some local medical teams.
They collaborated with their counterparts in Dalian, I believe, which is in the northeast part of the country.
That's quite far away.
So very, very, very far away from each other.
And what they were doing was they were controlling the robotic arm remotely and the operations helped patients receive receive the best, the cutting-edge technology treatments that are available for people in big cities, and they didn't even have to leave their hometown.
So that's a good point to make, too.
You talk about how remote the region used to be, but now with the 5G coverage, and you think oh, that's great for.
Searching videos on Bilibili.
Okay, well, no, yeah, I mean, yes, it is, but it's more than that.
It's about connecting the region not with the adjacent provinces in the country, but with the country as a whole.
Yeah.
And for example, when it comes to education, students in Lhasa, for instance, can also have online courses with teachers from Beijing.
So that is also built on a very sound digital technology network.
And that is another misunderstanding that I guess for Xizang from outside of China is mainly because it's focusing on the public services in the region, for example in education or health care, that are often overlooked.
We were having international discussions about Xizang.
So what is the real situation for local people in Xizang in their educational or health system?
I guess the outside world would still think that the region is lacking basic services.
Would that be a fair statement to make?
Well, to be honest, I don't think we can generalize how people outside of Xizhang think about Xizhang in a simple way.
Because of the remote geography and because of the high altitude and things like that.
I believe that that's the perception that people would have.
There are different misunderstandings.
Some would view the region as a remote area so that it is hard to develop.
So maybe it's an underdeveloped situation.
That's one. common misunderstanding.
And another misunderstanding is that because they speak a different language, they have different culture, they must lack the support they need.
They must lack the kind of resources that they deserve.
This is another another direction when it comes to misunderstandings.
But if we take a look at the real situation, for instance, in 2024 graduate programs enrolled 2320 new students, bringing the total number of postgraduate students to nearly 7000, with close to 1600 graduates completing their studies during that year.
So that's the higher education situation.
And when it comes to vocational education, with over 10000 new enrollments, more than 30000 students currently studying and over 10700 graduates, That's for vocational education.
And there are special education programs.
There are different kindergartens and preschools.
And in Xizang, one thing is that it is the first region in China to implement 15 years of free education education for kindergartens through high school.
For most other regions and other provinces in China, it's nine years of free education.
So actually people in Xizang enjoy an even better And when it comes to the curriculum design, the biggest question that I got asked a lot by people that are not from Xizang is do the schools in Xizang teach the Tibetan language or just the Mandarin Chinese?
And that got me, you know, triggered sometimes.
I'm from Inner Mongolia, so we have also a very similar language system when it comes to education and also the bilingual signage system in place.
In Inner Mongolia.
We are also required, I think, all public signage to be in bilingual, in Mandarin, Chinese and also a Mongolian language.
And the same apply to the Shizan Autonomous Region.
And when it comes to schools, you also have a choice.
You can choose to learn Mandarin Chinese only.
And you can also choose to learn about the Tibetan language as well.
And I think I talked to a teacher.
She is of the Moba ethnic group, and they have their own oral language.
They have no written language.
So at her school in the Motuo County in Linzhi, in the eastern south part of Xizang, they teach three languages.
They teach the local Moba language and they teach the Tibetan language because that's the language used to get around the region.
And also the Mandarin Chinese to get around the country and also the English language.
They have to learn a lot, the students.
They learn a lot of languages.
Four languages, can you believe that?
When I was in Lhasa, I visited a local museum and they have this.
It was quite funny, because this is one exhibition hall.
And in that one exhibition hall you see a lot of little kids learning how to write Tibetan language.
It's kind of like Tibetan pinyin.
I'm not really sure if I'm using the right terms.
What does it look like?
I've never seen it before.
Different strokes, different strokes and how to pronounce them.
And also in the same exhibition hall, there's also Mandarin pinyin.
And I think in a little corner, I cannot recognize the language.
But yes, the kids, I was thinking.
Hmm, they have to learn a lot.
Yeah, and also math, history, geography.
So...
I wonder, though 5G and railways and highways and live streaming, and for a region that with such a rich history and such diverse groups of people and languages?
I wonder if there's any worry about a loss of culture there, because it feels I've never been there myself.
But from what I've learned from our chat today, it feels like it's headed in a very modern direction.
Is there any concern?
Definitely.
Like in any places here in China. you would hear people talking about the losing of local language.
It's not only about Xizang.
It's the kind of problem or challenge we face anywhere, not even only in China.
Around the world, people would think about it and that is why they are finding different ways from the deep bottom of their heart, finding the passion and started to, for example, collecting we mentioned earlier, collecting the kind of written documents of their own language, of their own culture, and figuring out the intangible cultural heritage items in their area, in their little village, and how to preserve them and how to transform them into a modern culture way of interpretation that people even outside of Xi Zang would be able to appreciate.
But that does not mean that they do not have the same right as any people in China to enjoy modern technology and modern way of living.
And that, I think, is one kind of like a misunderstanding or a strange perception when it comes to a place that you don't know about.
That is, you think about the ancient way of living and you find it quote unquote valuable or worth of protecting or preserve what you want to do.
You want to put it in a bubble and have people living a quote unquote idyllic lifestyle forever.
You deserve electricity and technology, but they don't because you want to put them kind of like in a modern style time capsule or a museum way of living, just because when you're traveling there for 10 days it's a fun thing to look at.
I don't think it's fair.
And that is why, with the new way of living with modern technology, with the new stage of modernization in Xizang, people are living in a very very, very similar way as any people outside of the region.
But at the same time, they're also preserving their own culture and culture, finding different ways to make more people appreciate their culture like any people outside of Xizang.
Yeah, and when it comes to, you know, trying to find that balance between modernization and preserving our own culture, I think Xizang can also be an example when people are trying to find strike that balance.
So I'm sure that maybe for the future, maybe another 75 years and even longer, Xizang will continue its path of transformation and development.
And for the local people there, no matter they're of Tibetan ethnic groups or Moba or Loba or other ethnic groups, I mean, it's a new day, it's a new life.
And it's feeling quite good, actually.
