Sirius XM Podcasts Hey, everyone, it's Dan here with a reheat by request.
Listener John wrote in and said, I'm a longtime Hot Dugs fan.
I was looking for some history and came across your podcast on the subject, but they're no longer available.
Well, that's right, John.
Some of the really old ones are no longer available until we pull them out of the deep freezer and reheat them, as we are doing for you today.
In this episode, I talk with Doug Sohn, a.k.a.
Hot Doug himself.
Now, Hot Doug's was a legendary sausage joint in Chicago.
It closed down, but the six-month advance notice of its closure sparked...
Real hysteria, not just in Chicago, but it spread across the country.
There were like pilgrimages to hot dogs.
So why?
Why would anyone wait in line for four hours for a sausage?
Well, you're going to listen to this episode and find out.
Then later in the show, I'm joined by filmmaker and food writer Kevin Pang and chef Curtis Duffy.
Kevin made a documentary about Curtis, called For Grace.
All about what it took for Curtis to open his Michelin starred restaurant Grace.
Now I should note that Grace closed in 2017, but Curtis went on to open another Michelin starred restaurant in Chicago in 2020.
That one's called Ever.
Remember, there's an episode of The Sporkful you want us to pull out of the deep freezer.
We take requests.
This one's by request from John.
If you want to hear one, send me an email or voice memo to hello at sporkful.com.
Thanks so much and enjoy.
This is The Sporkful.
It's not for foodies, it's for eaters.
I'm Dan Pashman, and we're coming to you from the 35th Annual Taste of Chicago.
That was really good.
Well done.
Joining me now is a Chicago food legend.
For 13 years he ran a place called Hot Doug's which was famous for its unique sausages, from rattlesnake sausage to duck sausage with truffle aioli and so much more.
Then last spring, Doug announced he was closing up shop.
He was ready for something new.
People went berserk.
Over the last few months before hot dogs closed, the lines got longer and longer.
A certain hysteria took hold.
People were camping out.
And in October, hot dogs finally closed its doors.
So will we ever get to try his delicious sausage concoctions again?
Please welcome the man behind hot dogs, Doug Sohn.
So the last time I saw you, Doug, it was last summer.
You had announced that you were closing down.
The hysteria was ramping up.
And for people who want to get a little bit of a feel for that, there's a sporkful episode from last summer called Hot Dogs and Hot Dugs.
When I waited in line, I interviewed customers.
I talked to you.
It's in the feed from last summer.
So you can get a real a feel for that.
But I want to kind of catch people up and I want to first hear about those last couple days.
Those last few days were insane.
There's no doubt about it.
It was actually.
I would always park on Roscoe and walk down the street and there might be one or two people before I came in.
Every time I showed up there was like a block and a half long, so I started going around the other way.
So I could just kind of just a little bit avoid the hysteria to get the day started.
How long were people waiting in line?
I would say the last week, probably the average was like five or six hours.
Yes.
Is there any sausage experience that can make that worth it?
Yeah.
I mean, you know, but it's any experience.
I mean, it's up to the person experiencing that.
I mean... Take me back to the moment when you locked up the doors for the last time.
How did that feel?
How did that feel?
It felt... I got to be honest.
I was just so exhausted that it really didn't, really didn't hit me, for you know, for like a couple of weeks later,
I mean just you know, people would sort of forget that I actually had a business to run those last four or five months, and just getting something on the menu each day became, you know this, not struggle, but a completely different operation.
You know, I've been doing this for a long time and now it was four times busier than it had ever been.
And so that took its toll.
It was melancholy.
It was satisfying.
It was, you know, I never felt regret by any stretch of the imagination.
And in some ways it was just, for me, sort of this last chapter of this perfect story.
What do you miss about it, and what do you not miss at all?
I miss a few things.
I miss the customers, mostly.
I miss the interaction with the customer.
That was my favorite part of the job.
I miss the food.
I forgot, really didn't think it through, that if I close, oh, I don't get my food either.
Yeah, I should have thought about that just a little bit more.
I don't miss the day-to-day operation of running a restaurant.
Things breaking, things not showing up, the day-to-day grind, pun intended, of running a restaurant.
I don't miss that even before you announced that you were closing, you had turned down million dollar offers to expand hot dogs.
That is true.
Now I would imagine that when the hysteria really hit, the offers got even crazier.
So like without naming names, like what was the most unbelievable offer that you got?
My favorite offer.
A gentleman came up to the counter and said I'm going to make you an offer you can't refuse.
And my response was apparently you've never met me, because that actually is my job is refusing offers.
And he said, $1 million.
And to which I responded, add a zero and I'll take the meeting.
And his response was, $100 million?
To which I responded, you're no longer my accountant.
But yes, if that's the offer, then yes, we don't need a meeting.
Just write the check.
But there was never anything that like so out of you know, so strange that it made me contemplate anything.
But you had people walking up to you into the counter of your restaurant and offering you a million dollars.
Yes.
Because that doesn't happen to a lot of people.
No.
That's not a normal thing.
No.
I guess not.
Apparently, he was stunned.
I was like, no.
And he looked at me.
I was like, it's not life-changing.
And it really isn't.
If it was enough that I never had to work a day again the rest of my life, sure.
I mean, I can be bought.
It's just I'm not cheap, apparently.
So let's segue now to the present.
You turn down million-dollar offers, and instead, you're starting a podcast.
As someone who's been hosting a podcast for over five years, I have to say are you sure you did the math on this?
Are you sure you don't want to open any more restaurants?
No, we're good.
No, the podcast, it's great.
It's fun to do.
You like doing it, I'm sure.
I do love it, but no one's walked up to me and offered me a million dollars yet.
Yeah, not yet.
You never know.
I mean, it took me a while, you know, until people made that offer.
It's a great creative outlet.
It's fun to do.
It's something I hadn't done before.
And I just have a great time doing it.
And the podcast is called The Untitled Hour with Hot Doug and The Hitmaker.
Exactly.
We're on the Radio Misfits Podcast Network.
And it's really just you guys hanging out and talking about whatever you're interested in.
Exactly right.
Which is not always food, so sometimes it's chainsaw carved totem poles.
Exactly.
And it's actually usually not food.
Every once in a while, it slips in.
But for the most part, it's exactly right.
It's subjects that interest us that the Hitmaker and I like to chitchat about.
One of the things that made a lot of news recently for people who are missing your food is that you have custom created three new sausages.
To be sold at Wrigley Field.
That is correct.
Home of the Chicago Cubs.
Exactly.
Yes, you can cheer for that.
It's very exciting news.
It's the Cubs.
Come on.
And apparently they're going to be rotating, right?
Exactly.
Okay.
So the first three, the Dave Kingman.
Yep.
And they're named after some of your favorite Cub players.
Exactly right.
Yeah, that was part of the negotiation was I get to name them.
Okay.
Dave Kingman is a bacon cheeseburger sausage with cola barbecue sauce and sharp cheddar cheese.
Yep.
Now, Dave Kingman, the player, was known as an all-or-nothing player.
He had a lot of home runs, and he struck out a lot.
How does that relate to this sausage?
I just really like Dave Kingman.
There's really no direct relationship between the two.
So is there any correlation between the player you named each sausage after and the food itself?
Not at all.
It's really, I like the sausage.
I like the name.
And you've got to call him something.
And we've got one named after Rick Russell, who is also nicknamed Big Daddy.
Exactly.
My all-time favorite cub.
Why?
Why?
Honestly well, he was playing right in my wheelhouse when I started to really follow truly follow baseball and, in particular, the Cubs.
And I always loved the fact that a guy built like that could be a dominating athlete.
I could relate to that body type.
You know, like basketball players, most football players like no, but rick russell absolutely, he's like.
Oh, i could aspire to be.
You know that, And that was it.
And he was their best player when I still really started loving the Cubs.
And now you've got the next best thing to being a star pitcher for the Cubs.
You have your sausages featured at the Cubs.
Exactly right.
And I get a little pass.
I get to go in any time I want.
Whoa.
Yeah, exactly.
That might be better than a million dollars.
Thank you.
See, I was holding out for the right offer.
The Rick Russell is an atomic sausage with chipotle mustard and pepper jack cheese.
Can I pitch you on a couple of other sausages?
By the way, I see what you did there.
What?
The pitch you.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, see?
I'm here for you.
No problem.
They write themselves.
Yes, hit me with it.
I want one named after Steve Goodman.
Now, do you know the connection, Steve Goodman?
I can't remember how many people know that.
Well, Steve Goodman, not a player.
He's a singer-songwriter from the 70s and early 80s.
That's true.
Grew up in Chicago.
He wrote Go Cubs Go and Dying Cub Fans Last Request.
That is true.
And he never lived to see the Cubs play a playoff game.
He was supposed to sing the national anthem at the first playoff game in 1984 but died at a very young age, right before that game.
So his friend Jimmy Buffett filled in and sang the national anthem in his stead.
How's that?
That's pretty great.
Do you know that he's also my stepbrother?
Are you serious?
Yeah.
How about that?
We're revealing this little known fact.
Yeah, my mom married his dad when I was like nine years old.
Tell me about him.
He was awesome.
It was great.
One of the truly great moments in my life is sitting at the Chicago recording studio.
And so I was probably...
In high school, like 16 17 years old, watching Steve and John Prine and all these players recording albums.
Like you know, until my parents were great, like you know midnight, 1 o'clock in the morning, hypnotized sitting on the sofa in the control room watching like this magic happening before me.
Ah.
So yeah, so yeah, no, we used to, I mean, we weren't, there was a big age difference.
We weren't super close, but yeah, no, we hung out a lot.
Well, that's amazing.
So then you have a very good reason to name one after Steve.
Absolutely.
We'll sneak one in there.
Two more quick ones I want to pitch you on before you go.
Sure.
Antonio Alfonseca, he was a relief pitcher for a short time with the Cubs.
And has six fingers on each hand.
That's right.
Again, you think he got some rube up here?
I know what's going on.
And because of his extra finger, do you know what his nickname was?
Oh, you might have me there.
His nickname was Pulpo, which is Spanish for octopus.
Octopus, that's right.
So octopus sausage for Alfonseca.
At some point here, I do have to sell something, but that's all right.
And finally, I think there should be one called the Mark Pryor.
And that would be a sausage where like, the first two bites are amazing and then the whole thing disintegrates into broken dreams.
Exactly.
And then, like, years later, we just have a simulated hot dog that kind of really fails as well.
All right.
Doug Stone, formerly of Hot Dugs.
His new podcast is called The Untitled Hour with Hot Doug and The Hitmaker.
It's available now.
Go take a listen.
Big hand for Doug Stone.
Thank you.
Enjoy the taste.
Dan, thank you so much.
Coming up, our live show from Chicago continues.
I'll ask one of the top chefs in the world to tell me his favorite candy bar.
But first...
Oh, man, I still just can't believe that Hot Doug is related to Steve Goodman.
I just really, really love Steve Goodman.
He also wrote City of New Orleans, which was recorded by Willie Nelson, among others.
And You Never Even Call Me By My Name, which was made famous by David Allen Coe.
Steve Goodman passed away at age 36.
He died of leukemia back in 1984.
And as we go to break, let's listen to a little of his classic Chicago song A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request.
It's a song he wrote toward the end of his life and it's just about one of the saddest, funniest songs you'll ever hear.
Give everybody two bags of peanuts and a frosty malt and I'll be ready to die.
Build a big fire on home plate out of your Louisville Slugger baseball bats and toss my coffin in.
Let my ashes blow in the beautiful snow from the prevailing 30 mile an hour southwest wind.
And when my last remains go flying over the left field wall, we'll bid the bleacher bums adieu.
And I will come to my final resting place out on Waveland Avenue.
The dying man's friends told him to cut it out.
He said stop it.
That's an awful shame.
He whispered don't cry, we'll meet by and by near the heavenly hall of fame.
He said i've got season's tickets to watch the angels now.
That's just what i'm gonna do.
He said, but you, the living, you're stuck here with the Cubs.
So it's me who feels sorry for you.
And he said, oh, play that lonesome losers tune.
That's the one I like the best.
Closed his eyes and slipped away.
Well Scotty, it was the dying Cub fans' last request, So here it is.
Do they still play the blues in Chicago When baseball season rolls around?
When the snow melts away, do the cubbies still play in their eyes because we bare your ground?
When I was a boy they were my pride and joy, but now they only bring fatigue to the home of the brave.
Time to cook up some advertisements.
I'll see you next time.
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Now, let's get back to the Sporkful live on stage at the Taste of Chicago.
Coming right along.
Excellent.
There's an old saying that if it isn't hard, it's not worth doing.
From a young age, Curtis Duffy set out to become one of the greatest chefs in the world.
Over the years, he sacrificed almost everything to make it happen, including his marriage.
He's now the chef and owner of Grace right here in Chicago, one of only 12 restaurants in the whole country that has three Michelin stars.
I love, by the way, that here on the Sportful we're segueing from hot dog to Grace, one of the best restaurants in the country.
We cover it all here.
Curtis Duffy is the subject of a documentary by Chicago Tribune food writer Kevin Pang.
The film is called For Grace.
Please welcome Kevin Pang and Chef Curtis Duffy.
So, Kevin, I'll start with you.
You're best known as a writer and a particular food writer.
How did you end up making a film?
That is a very good question.
I don't know anything about filmmaking.
I studied broadcast journalism at college at USC.
And I only stopped studying broadcast journalism when someone said oh, you don't even have the Facebook for radio.
And I thought, wow, what a terrible thing to say.
I did a TV show like six, seven years ago where I just went around the city and ate cheeseburgers for an entire year, essentially.
And so...
After that was done, I wanted to do something a little bit more proper, a little bit more mature, more grown up.
I was trying to look for some short film project, maybe 15 or 20 minutes.
And then I knew about Curtis and I invited him out to to lunch in Chinatown, in fact.
And we were just talking about the idea of creating a dish.
That was the original conceit was I wanted to make a short film about how a chef of his caliber creates a dish and sort of the mind processes of that.
And it was at that point where he told me you know what?
I'm also leaving Avenues, which was the name of this prior restaurant, and I'm going to be opening up my own restaurant.
And I thought hmm, perhaps I should ask him if we can follow him around for a few months as he builds this restaurant.
And a few months only...
What, lasted four years in the end?
Four years later you had a full-length movie.
Yeah, four years later we had a documentary, exactly.
Which has, by the way, debuted at South by Southwest.
It's been playing at festivals all around the country to rave reviews.
And one of the recurring themes in the film is the sacrifice that you have to make to become one of the top chefs in the world, and how all-consuming it's been for you.
Curtis, there's just not room for other things in your life.
And so I wanted to kind of test that thesis statement of the film a little bit with a little pop quiz for you.
Sure.
Let's see how all-consuming your work at your restaurant is.
What's the last movie you saw in the theater?
Before Grace.
Great answer.
Good answer.
What about before that?
Wow.
I don't know.
Honestly, I don't remember.
Right.
Because you're working.
Exactly.
Right.
How are the Cubs doing this year?
No idea.
Let me ask Doug.
Where is he?
Who is the president of the United States?
I don't know.
Kennedy?
So suffice it to say you're very focused on the task at hand, and that's one of the things in the film, and I love watching the building of the restaurant and some of the details that are so important to you.
We talk so much about details here on this pork full.
You get into the details of furnishing the restaurant.
You were obsessed with having a certain kind of tablecloth.
What kind of tablecloth and why?
Well, originally it was supposed to kind of wrap underneath the table so it would expose the leg going down to the floor.
So it looked like a beautiful raindrop when it hits the ground and then it kind of explodes back up.
I wanted that moment.
Unfortunately, we weren't able to find somebody to make those tablecloths.
So we're still searching that.
It's actually still on the drawing board for us.
Just to give you a sense of the type of obsession that these guys, these guys were finding chairs that were originally well, the one at the restaurant.
Now it originally costs 2300 per chair.
And they negotiated that down to $1,000 per chair.
This is the discount price.
And so after you buy 100, just the chair furnishing alone costs $100,000, which is completely nuts.
So Curtis, what was it about these chairs?
It was everything.
Everything that we made, everything that we decided to put into the restaurant was for the guest.
It was about giving the best experience possible, and that starts with the materials at hand.
Everything that you're going to sit down for two and a half hour, a dining experience.
Everything has to be luxurious, including the linen, including the chairs, the bathrooms, whatever it was.
And I have to say, those chairs are the most comfortable chairs I've ever sat on.
They should be for that price.
Yeah.
Go to the restaurant just to sit at those chairs.
Just order the house salad.
Right.
You have that, right, at the restaurant?
Yeah.
Yes, we do.
Has anyone ever spilled something on one of the chairs?
Yeah.
Yes, they have.
It's fine.
We take great care in cleaning them, but we've had a few that are ruined already.
Wasn't there a story about a certain lady who had some tanning?
She came in with tanning lotion on and sat in the chair for two and a half, three hours and left.
And you can imagine what that did to the leather chairs.
Her nice, beautiful butt print on it.
And her legs.
And then there's no way of getting it clean.
We couldn't clean it for anything.
So what did you do with the chair?
It's in the employee lounge.
$1,000 employee chair lounge.
Yeah, with someone's butt print on it.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Because I mean, I just got new chairs in my living room and they did not cost 1000 each, but I already won't let my kids bring juice in there.
Of course.
So I don't know how you stand it.
It would drive me crazy.
Coming up, Curtis and I talk about the lessons he took from his parents and the personal sacrifices he's made in order to build his culinary career.
That's coming up.
Stick around.
Hope you're hungry because it's time for some ads.
Welcome back to The Sporkful.
I'm Dan Pashman.
Now back to my conversation with Chef Curtis Duffy and food writer Kevin Pang.
The turning point in the film comes when we learn of a real tragedy that took place in your life, Curtis.
We don't need to get into all the details of it here because it's handled very powerfully in the film and we have a sort of PG crowd here.
But suffice it to say that even before that tragedy, you had a rough go of it growing up.
What role did... that play in your setting out to become one of the greatest chefs in the world?
I think one of the greatest things that my parents gave me was work ethics.
Because I watched them struggle, going through job after job, working two or three jobs at a time just to put food on the table.
And I think taking that from them and having that focus and dedication and knowing that's not the way that I wanted to live drove me and put me in a position where I wanted to be and where I needed to be.
And I mean you talk openly in the film about how your devotion to your work probably was a big part in breaking up your marriage.
Are there days that you've questioned whether it was worth it?
I think everything happens for a reason, you know.
Yeah, I think it was worth it.
Absolutely.
And I mean, on one hand, I'm so inspired by the fact that you set such high goals for yourself.
You would say, I want this to be the best restaurant in the country, period.
But on the other hand, that's such a hard thing to accomplish.
I mean, you're already one of 12 in the country with three Michelin stars.
That's an extraordinary accomplishment.
Do you think you could ever get to a point where you would feel like have some part of you that would put your feet up and be like I made it.
I did it.
No.
No, because I feel like we're always in a place where we can always refine.
We can always be better in everything that we do, in every aspect of our lives.
And that even leads to my personal side, right?
I sacrifice so much on my personal side to make greatness in what I do in the food world.
Now it's time to learn to let go a little bit on the professional side so I can have a little bit more stability in my personal life.
We've got to wrap up, but I want to finish on a little bit of a lighter note here.
Curtis, it can't be African blue basil all the time.
What are some of your food guilty pleasures?
Wow.
Purple basil?
Oh, what a chef-y answer.
Do you like Bugles or Twix bars?
I'm a candy guy.
I love Twizzlers and Whoppers and anything sweet.
I love pizza.
I love everything.
I'm a foodie.
And Kevin, I know you're a big fan of hot dogs.
I know you're a big admirer of Curtis's work at Grace.
Is there a fusion dish between the sausages at Hot Dugs and the food at Grace that you might be able to envision in your wildest dreams?
That could like, cause the entire Chicago restaurant scene to fold in upon itself and disintegrate.
Yeah, we're talking about folding onto itself and breaking the space-time continuum.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, so let me just work this out in my head.
And you have 30 seconds, go.
Okay, 30 seconds.
Curtis's food is really sort of like... multidimensional, very architectural.
There's a narrative arc, so there's time factor involved.
Hot dogs is about stuffing your face with foie gras and sausage and very visceral things.
So how about if you're able to serve me a foie gras duck sautern hot dog yesterday?
Nice.
Curtis, get to work.
I'm on it.
I'm on it.
All right, guys.
The film is called For Grace.
It's at various film festivals.
It'll be available streaming soon.
Keep in touch with the film and figure out where you can see it at forgracefilm.com.
Big hand for Kevin Pang and Chef Curtis Duffy.
When I first met you, babe, you fed me on chicken and wine.
It was steak and potatoes, and, babe, I sure felt But now all you give me is the seaweed and the alfalfa sprouts and sunflower seeds and I got my dots.
And baby left me here with the chicken cordon bleu.
So that's part one of our live show from Chicago.
One quick note about hot dogs.
Two of Doug's former cooks have opened up their own place in Chicago with Doug's blessing.
It's called Hot G Dogs.
It's an uptown.
And they have a lot of the same food that they had at Hot Dogs.
The scoop from the Trib's Kevin Pang is it's not quite as good as Hot Dogs, but it's still really good.
This show is a production of WNYC and The Sporkful.
It's produced by Anne, Sani, and me.
We got production help in Chicago from Maya Goldberg-Safer and in New York from Tim Ruggieri.
Special thanks to Paula Schumann and thanks to everyone at The Taste of Chicago, especially Mary Slowick, Mary May, Alex Hawley and Ed Silla.
Let's go out with a little more of Steve Goodman.
This is Chicken Cordon Blues.
Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.
I'm Jamie Edelman from Las Vegas Nevada, reminding you to eat more, eat better and eat more better.
Don't you see that old dog standing out in the street with a big smile on his face because they let him eat meat?
And I got you.
And I got the chicken.
I got you.
And I got the chicken.
Where are the cords?
And I got the time to cross over the moon This reheat was produced by Gianna Palmer.
The team that produces The Sportful today includes me, along with managing producer Emma Morgenstern and senior producer Andres O'Hara.
Our engineer is Jared O'Connell.
Music help from Black Label Music.
The Sporkful is a production of SiriusXM Podcasts.
Our executive producer is Camille Stanley.
And hey, did you know you can listen to The Sporkful on the SiriusXM app?
Yes, the SiriusXM app.
It has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports coverage.
Does your podcasting app have that?
Then there's interviews with A-list stars and so much more.
It's everything you want in a podcast app and music app all rolled into one.
And right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to SiriusXMcom slash Sporkful.
Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.
