You're listening to Round Table with myself Echo Young.
I'm joined by Steve Hatherly.
And… action in the studio!
Coming up - lowliness often feels like an overwhelming paradox in today's world.
We have more ways to connect than ever before, yet so many of us still find ourselves feeling isolated and disconnected.
We will unveil the truth and also the myth of loneliness and explore why it's not always about being alone.
And your voice matters and it'd be great to hear it in a heart -to -heart segment.
Gotta question something you're itching to share?
Fire up that voice memo and hit us up at ROUND TABLE Podcast at QQ .com Our podcast listeners can find us at ROUND TABLE CHINA on from Apple podcast.
Now let's switch gears and discuss a loneliness topic.
Ah, loneliness. The irony is rich, don't you think?
We live in a bustling interconnected world but can feel so alone a lot of the times.
Surrounded by millions yet deeply isolated, individuals can feel a profound sense of disconnection.
In this day and age of hyperconnectivity, True intimacy can feel elusive replaced by fleeting digital connections that offer a shallow sense of connection.
And what exactly is it about loneliness that makes us feel so separated from the herd and what exactly is the myth about loneliness?
So let's not bury the lead what is the myth about loneliness?
Yes, it It doesn't seem to make much sense, but the myth about loneliness is this, the solution is to surround yourself with other people.
That is a myth because that is not true.
In fact, surrounding yourself with other people when you're feeling very lonely may indeed make your situation worse.
The truth is, is that you can experience loneliness in a crowd, in a romantic relationship hip, or hanging out in a large group of friends you can still feel that feeling of loneliness.
That was confirmed in a 2021 study, they took 756 people who regularly recorded how they felt using an app over a two year period, and what they found was that feelings of loneliness seem to increase in overcrowded densely populated environments, in other words, modern cities.
This is quite paradoxical, it's true.
We live in big cities where technology and connectivity, as you mentioned, they drive our existence these days.
But this could make us feel less connected than ever.
Do you think the technology and connectivity has actually exacerbated the sense of loneliness?
I wonder if it was before the era of smart phones and in big cities, well, big cities have existed for a long time.
And I still remember people saying that you feel like you're one fish in a huge pond, or you can't find similar fish as who you feel you are, and how lonely that can be.
The more connected we become, the less connected we are.
That is a paradox, isn't it?
Urban populations, they're growing rapidly.
68 % of the world's people are expected to be living in cities by the middle of this century, century, but we are reportedly living through right now, what is called a loneliness epidemic.
It's a global outbreak that knows no boundaries.
It doesn't care how old you are.
Loneliness affects young people and old people.
It can even rewire our brains.
The BBC, they did a loneliness experiment.
They sampled 55 thousand people around the world in 2018, and they found that 40 percent of 16 to 24 year olds feel lonely often or very often and then other study shows studies show that around 10 % of adults around the world feel lonely and in many many different ways and that's why I have a little
bit of a disagreement on what you said when people connect more and we connect less because I think of course it's about connection as Hoeyang said in the lead When we're talking about loneliness, it means there are no connections.
And if you're just actually connected with people, you will not feel lonely because, imagine, as you— We are having that, kind of, scenario when you get into a huge crowd or get into a party, and you don't know anybody in there, of course, will feel lonely.
But when you're, maybe, getting to a coffee shop and there are two friends are waiting for you, It will definitely not feel lonely, right?
Oh, I totally disagree with that.
So you could be right.
But you can't say that that's right in every situation.
Because loneliness, and this is another myth about loneliness, is that it doesn't come from just having people in your physical proximity.
Just because you're standing in the circle of ten people, doesn't mean you won't feel loneliness.
loneliness comes from a human being's desire to feel understood or accepted or connected with another human soul and when we don't feel understood when we feel that nobody knows who we are then we can experience loneliness...
That is exactly what I expressed.
No, you said that you could sit in a coffee shop with your two friends and you won't feel lonely, but here's my friends, you feel like they don't really know who I am.
they don't really know what I like, and when I meet them I feel like I have to wear a mask and pretend to be happy, when in fact I don't feel any close connection to these people at all.
That is the truest definition of loneliness.
Can we say, well this is my sort of interpretation, that it's the quality of the connection that way determines how, whether you feel loneliness or not with physical company or virtual company.
Um, I've read in so many novels, uh, about relationships that went badly and then this man or woman, the protagonist kind of laments are some point that, Oh, this man, um, you No, my husband is in front of me, but he's changed into someone that I don't feel like I know anymore.
And although we sleep in the same bed, but I can't feel more lonely.
Yeah. It's kind of a movie trope.
We see it a lot of the time.
And to that point, and this is from Quantum magazine, neuroscience suggests loneliness Loneliness is not a lack of opportunity to meet others.
You can still have an opportunity to meet other people and still feel lonely.
Instead loneliness is happening in your brain.
It's your brain circuits and your behavioral changes that can lead to a catch twenty -two.
The catch twenty -two is this.
We desire a connection with other people but at the same time we see other people as unreliable or judgmental or unfriendly so what do we do?
We keep our distance, but by keeping our distance it adds to our loneliness by cutting off our opportunities for connection.
That's the catch -22.
And you know loneliness is very difficult to study because it's subjective.
You can't study it empirically there's no hard evidence that you can look to.
You ask someone what's wrong and they can say, I'm lonely, but you can't look at their body and find any sort of physical signals.
So it's a subjective thing that's why it's so hard to research and so hard to study.
Yeah, and you could feel great today but tomorrow you might feel really lonely.
Due to some of the factors that you just mentioned.
And especially like when you're looking at somebody.
When you're just – you're talking to them and they're surrounded by people and saying, I am lonely.
And then it's really tough for people to admit also.
Yeah, you know? Like a lot of the times people are silently harboring this feeling and maybe feel distraught by it, but it's also a little bit losing face in the Chinese parlance or you feel like Like you're expressing that you are like a little inferior.
If you say, well, actually, I'm kind of lonely.
Yeah. I don't know if that's unique to Chinese culture or not.
That might be a human nature thing.
That difficulty in opening up and admitting to other people.
Because yeah, it might be seen as a sort of weakness or something like that.
And maybe that comes from the fact that feeling lonely is hardwired into our humanity.
– some people believe that it serves as kind of an adaptive or evolutionary function that encourages us to take action or promote our short -term survival, which kind of makes sense from an evolutionary point of view.
Right. If you suddenly feel, I'm sad, I'm lonely, that's going to kickstart you into action to try to fix that problem.
Right? That's one theory out there.
It's kind of like when hunger tells us to find our food.
loneliness can tell us that there's something wrong with our social environment and that we need to do something about it and that might come from the fact that from our prehistoric ancestors isolation was dangerous.
If you were isolated it made you more vulnerable to animals or other hazards that could have a serious impact on your personal safety and therefore less likely to survive and pass on genes and things like that but that's looking from kind of a prehistoric point of view.
Exactly. And that's why I heard that feeling scared is also one of the very natural psychological responses.
And in this way, I think, when people are feeling lonely, it's also one of the defensive mechanisms to protect ourselves.
And when we are feeling lonely, or, it is the time that maybe you need to find a solution or someone.
Interesting. We'll get into maybe the word origin and how it's changed meaning in a bit, but I don't necessarily think that being by yourself is always triggering this feeling of lonely.
Sometimes you could be completely alone, but you enjoy the solitude.
So there's even you know, different connotations to feeling lonely, as opposed to alone.
And alone is a far more, can I say neutral term, as the word lonely just carries a bit more emotion and a slightly negative emotion in a way.
Yeah, and again, that's to the point of the feeling of loneliness is not about being...
With people. In the same geographic location as other humans, it's about that desire for connection that's missing.
Yeah. But sometimes you just want to be alone.
Oh 100%. Right. Just because you're alone in a room doesn't mean you're lonely.
That's for sure. Yeah and I'm always on the show promoting, doing stuff on your own can actually give yourself a little bit of breather room and you don't need to deal with other people's emotional well -being or state of mind and be completely independent in and enjoy that alone time.
Go to the movies, go on a meal, bike yourself really just enjoy that alone time as the most freedom and independent experience that I've ever been through, and I highly recommend it from time to time.
Really interesting in the English language because how lonely was used before is not the same way that it's used now.
Bound Alberti is a researcher.
Bound Alberti argues that prior to the 19th century the language of loneliness didn't really exist in the same way that we use it today.
Back then to be lonely simply meant to be singular or, onely, if you will.
William Wordsworth, he's a famous poet.
He wrote a poem in the early 1800s.
I Wandered Lonely as a Cloud.
It goes like this I wandered lonely as a cloud that floats on higher or veils and hills When at all once all at once I saw a crowd a host of Golden daffodils In that context.
He's not saying I'm feeling a lack of Social connection he's just saying I am alone So the word itself has changed over time in the English language English who is only created about what the sixth century something like that But yeah, it over centuries, changed in its meaning.
Yeah, sometimes, I think even human needs being alone, because what I can think of is that kind of image that people live in a metropolis, and then after a bustling day when you return to an empty home maybe, this sense of contrast can bring you a sense of loneliness.
But what I believe is, first of all, Well a very it is a very like normal phenomenon that people will feel alone when we are alone or feel lonely and also everyone needs a bit of solitude.
Sometimes it's for self reflection and sometimes it's simply for rest because you know socializing with people consumes a lot of energy.
And sometimes you need that kind of loneliness to recap a little bit.
Yes, to recuperate from the stress of hanging out or socializing with people that I can definitely agree with.
But also I think for those who say, oh, I really enjoy to have that moment of solitude, often what's left out not being said here is that you have some kind of support system, you have other deeply connected high -quality emotions or relationships with someone.
And if you're a complete lonely island I doubt many people would feel that, oh you know I love this, I think they're like you guys mentioned maybe this is part of human nature.
You sort of need that solid foundation of emotional support of some kind maybe for you to feel that, oh, I can, you know, I can enjoy this sense of solitude or loneliness to - The balance, yeah.
Human beings need other human beings, right?
You can't go through your life from the moment you're born until you're not here anymore living by yourself with no interactions with others.
But that said, loneliness may be a little bit at least self -imposed.
I thought this was kind of fun.
Back in 2014, researchers at the University of Chicago and UC Berkeley, they asked that question, hmm, is loneliness self -imposed or not?
So this is what they did.
They asked, in Chicago, they asked commuters whether chatting with a stranger would improve their morning journey.
Right. When the researchers split the samples into groups, and what they did was they randomly tasked some people with doing that.
Talking to a stranger and then others not doing anything.
What they found was that the people who had a random conversation with a person on the or the bus in the morning, those are the people who enjoyed their commute the most." How?
Maybe sometimes, maybe sometimes.
Because, well this is just according to that limited experiment, but if we look at that result, then we could see that a pleasant exchange, a pleasant chat with a stranger on the train or on the bus on your way to work can actually do something positive for you emotionally.
Yeah, especially when you're doing this kind of thing alone, and you need, um, one example is that, okay, that's make, making it more obvious when I, uh, went snowboarding alone.
I tend to talk to people who sit next to me when we're need to use that kind of, uh, chair lift.
Yes. And, you know, to talk about, oh, how's the snow today?
And how, how did you do that kind of, uh, thing?
Yeah So at that moment, it feels like, OK, you don't know anybody there, but that moment is when you need a little kind of a talk to make you feel less, maybe isolated, or just to be more blending that kind of environment.
That I completely agree, in that case scenario in many of these small moments in everyday life.
But not for your morning commute.
This morning, when I got on the subway to come to work, I looked - I saw all these people surrounding me and all of them had this distant look on their faces.
And they're all like, my - my - my drone business.
Yeah it might be weird in Beijing to start talking, yeah.
This is before my morning coffee.
Just my drone business.
But just quickly as my final point.
Do you know what though that Chicago experiment that prompted some UK rail providers to introduce in 2019 something they called chat carriages, so in the chat carriage that it was defined as that so people knew if they got on that particular train car they were there to chat with strangers, and they
took it one step further in front of the seats they put a little card with a question, a conversation starter in case people were too shy or too awkward to be able to do it on their own.
That's kind of fun.
I think I think so too, whether in crowded cities or or intimate relationships.
Feeling truly seen and understood is at the heart of overcoming loneliness.
And sometimes even small talk and chatting with people that you've met on that chair lift service up to the mountains, yeah, that makes you maybe find a little joy for that moment and feel less lonely.
Coming up let's have a moment of heart to heart.
You ask. we answer!
Who's got a question for Roundtable?
Hi Roundtable, This is Muriel from Sichuan province, currently living in Shenzhen.
It's been almost 3 years since I last send you a voice message.
Today, I'd like to update you on my life and seek your wisdom once again.
When the pandemic eased, I moved to Shenzhen and found the job I truly loved.
However, after almost a year in that position, I realized I wasn't learning much and the shrinking business scale combined with limited opportunities for advancement, made me feel like I couldn't stay there for a long time.
I eventually left that happy environment to join a company with a seemingly more promising future.
To my disappointment, I found myself stuck in a routine of dealing with numbers, sending out spam emails and making cold calls.
Things I found extremely draining.
I quit that job after a month and a half.
Now I'm jobless. I used to believe I could find a career that not only gave me a sense of accomplishment, but also allowed me to become financially independent.
Now I feel very lost.
In a big city without a place to truly cut homes, I struggle with a strong sense of financial insecurity and often feel adrift.
I'm fortunate to have supportive parents and friends, but I can't shake the worry that I remain emotionally and financially dependent for a long time.
Have you ever felt extremely lonely while living alone in a big city?
Have you ever felt hopeless and insecure when your career seemed to hit a dead end?
What did you do to overcome those negative feelings and thoughts.
Thank you for your time and any advice you can share.
First off, I want to say thank you, I thank you, Meriad, for being such a loyal listener, and I hope you're listening to this, and I hope you sense that we did the previous topic with you in our minds.
And we wanna talk about how to deal with this sense of loneliness.
But Meriad, you, and we had to shorten the audio due to time limit, but you mentioned so much about you making all these changes and to sort of get closer to your goal, and I think you should give yourself a pat in the back for doing all of that.
But guys take it away, you know, how do you deal with the sense of loneliness in a big city?
And I have to say, I completely understand.
I Muriel is having right now, especially during my first couple of years living and working in a new city here in Beijing, it can be really, really tough when you are like navigating new environment and facing challenges on your own, right?
And I did found some ways to help me to cope with those kind of moment, you know.
And I think the most important thing is to realize that feeling lonely is completely normal, as we discussed in the previous topic.
When I first moved, I brought along - maybe it sounded a little bit childish - I brought along my pillow and blanket from home to have something familiar in a completely unfamiliar environment.
And I think that really helped me to quickly give myself a sense of security when I get into a new environment.
Yeah, I know what you mean.
That sounds childish, doesn't it?
But it's not childish at all because it's giving you kind of a rock, if you will.
Exactly. And also another thing is that I think we touched upon a little bit to appreciate solitude and build your own routine.
You know, personally, I'm kind of enjoying being alone for some time, spending time working on maybe puzzles rearranging my room and even doing a deep clean once a week has helped me a lot.
And also establishing daily habits can give you a sense of stability, I would say, and comfort, even in an unfamiliar place.
Because that can maybe connect with the new environment more quickly.
YUp. Yeah, great advice.
Hi, Muriel. I'm Steve.
I think, of course, you're going through a hard time right now and I truly understand why you are feeling that sense of loneliness.
But what if we can see this as an opportunity?
When we're surrounded by friends and we have a lot of social circles and there are text messages and phone calls and lets meet at this time and this day, then you don't have a lot of time to focus on who you are in your own personal growth.
You have an opportunity now.
In the future you will have that.
No doubt you will have that large group of friends, those social circles.
But now, this is really a chance for you to get to know you.
You've changed jobs a couple of times.
Why? Because you were getting to know you.
I don't like this about this job.
I want to change it.
So this is all part of your own personal growth.
So, as difficult as it might be to be in a city without family and in -between jobs searching for your next opportunity, don't forget to see it as an opportunity as well, to really inside your soul and enjoy this time when you get to spend time with ...
Yourself. Yeah and that's such an, an important lesson.
I think it's a stage that everybody probably at some point will need to go through of loneliness Learning us in a big city can hit harder than people realize, but trust that you're not alone in feeling that way.
We're not alone in our loneliness.
I think it's important to nurture relationships that you have, but also explore a new avenues of connection.
We can say all social groups, hobbies, all those things, but ultimately I think it's building long -lasting careers and relationships can make you feel like you belong and finally putting down roots and feeling truly at home.
I think the sense of belonging is often what we miss in big cities when we're a blow -in, and as your life evolves I think you'll gradually overcome that feeling.
I certainly hope that for you.
You're listening to Roundtable, thank you so much for tuning in, I'm He Jung, Steve, and you shouldn't thank you for joining the discussion.
We'll see you next time.
