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I'm Niu Hongling, joined by Steve and Fei Fei.
Coming up...
More protein, whole milk returns, and also we see the ultra-processed foods take a step back.
The latest U.S. dietary guidelines have triggered a wave of reactions, some cheering, some confused.
Has nutrition science changed its mind, or are we simply rediscovering what was overlooked?
Today, let's talk about nutrition guidelines.
For years, consumers were told to fear fat, choose low-cardio options, and trust healthy tables.
Now the official advice sounds different.
Eat more protein, don't panic about whole milk, and avoid heavily processed foods.
Well, that didn't change much. it feels less like dieting and more like real food.
To answer what is real food?
We first talk about the latest change in US dietary guidelines, because apparently real food is also a key word here.
Yeah, there's a simple explanation or a simple definition for real food.
It's, does it look like what it is?
Ah, less processed.
If the answer is yes, like a carrot Looks like a carrot, but nacho cheese doesn't look like anything.
Yeah.
So you can feel the difference there, right?
So the carrot falls into the real food category.
Yeah.
So the latest version of the US dietary guidelines for Americans.
They are putting the real food emphasis as their tagline.
Basically for this food.
10-page document.
They are encouraging people to eat real food, also home cooking as well.
But also, I think, if our listeners, who follow a lot of these dietary suggestions and guidelines from different governments in different countries.
Some media outlets are highlighting this version of guidelines as a great flip.
Simply because in the latest version of that dietary guidelines they also published a parameter that's basically reversed from the previous version.
If you see the photo, you see that, for example, steak chicken whole milk is putting into a larger font when it compares to like a bread, or are the whole grains.
So the whole grain stays on the bottom, at the tip of that pyramid, while meat butter avocado, fruits and vegetables staying on the top of that pyramid but also form the larger part of it.
It is definitely different from what I remember.
Yeah.
I mean, there are a lot of differences.
One is the length of the document itself.
You said it's down to 10 pages now.
It was 150 pages before.
But now it's kind of this consumer-facing document.
And it's summed up in this kind of clear and accessible tagline.
And that tagline, you mentioned it, it's eat real food.
Yeah, the differences before.
So this pyramid or this triangle that we're talking about.
So this goes back to 1992.
That's when the U.S.
Department of Agriculture, they gave us this pyramid. with a base of 6 to 11 servings of grain.
Then in 2011, they got away from that pyramid.
They went with something called MyPlate, but then back to 2026 and the pyramid is back, but they flipped it upside down.
So the before, the very bottom layer, the wide base of the triangle or the pyramid if you will, was dedicated to grains and breads and rice and pastas and cereals.
And that was the largest section.
And it told people that they should eat six to 11 servings of those foods every single day.
And it was kind of the foundation of the diet.
And then, just above that on the next layer, was split into two sections, one for fruits and one for vegetables.
The third layer was also split into two.
One was for dairy products like milk and cheese, and then the other was for meat and beans and protein sources.
And then finally, at the top of that pyramid, was a tiny section for fats and oils and sweets with the instruction, to quote use sparingly.
But yeah, now they've flipped it.
They've completely flipped it upside down.
This is very interesting because recent years, and even on Roundtable, we talked about different trends in the nutrient-related
I'm calling it teachings because there are so many different theories that are advising us to do.
Some advise us to have less grain.
Some say grain is the foundation of your diet.
If you lower the grain, you're lowering your metabolism, which is bad for you.
And some talk about the benefit of having nuts.
Some say that you should have them.
In different types of proportion, you can have a handful of nuts, but not too much.
And also there has been a low fat period, saying that one should not intake, take in too much fat, or you should make sure that the percentage of fat in your diet is not too much.
Yeah, one example of that.
Yeah, they say this low-fat era is kind of over now.
That has changed too.
Yeah, and one example is whole milk.
Yeah, for years people were advised by different people to avoid whole milk and switch to low and even zero fat.
People were advised by different people.
That's true.
But whole milk, yeah, it's back now.
Full-fat yogurt is back.
Cheese, thankfully.
It's back.
That's my favorite on the list.
And this is moving away from the kind of skim milk only advice that we got for decades.
We got that for a very long time.
Also, for the first time, natural fats like butter and beef tallow.
Those are listed as acceptable cooking options, provided that they replace industrial seed oils found in processed foods.
How about sugar?
Is sugar still bad?
Yeah, of course.
So, according to that guideline, what's not changed is one part is the focus is on fresh vegetables and fruits.
And the another one is the hard line on sugar, that in the latest guidelines added sugar are strictly limited to under 10 grams per meal.
And it also notes no amount of added sugar or non-nutritive supplements.
Sweeteners is recommended or considered part of a healthy diet.
And it also starts to lift the bar for children as well.
It calls for children to avoid added sugars until the age of 10.
Previously, it was at the age of two.
Hmm.
Yes, as a mom, I was giving my kid well, allowing him to have sugar and candy because he passed the age of two.
Now I have to, you know, bring back the band.
Yep, for eight more years.
Wow, not good news for kids.
Yeah.
But according to the current version of the guidelines they still recommend if you really want sugar, you've got a sweet tooth.
You can get your sugar from natural food like fruit, or even dried fruit is better than sweeteners according to that guidelines.
One, the change is as drastic as this and also as major as happening in a nutrient guideline.
We often talk about it, no matter if it's happening here in China or around the world, because nutritionists talk to each other.
They learn what the other countries' guidelines are about and try to find out if there's something that can inspire us to make changes, possible improvements to our guidelines.
And this year.
Well, last year 2025, was a year that China has also put a lot of focus on making sure that people are managing their weight, because we realize the correlation between weight and chronic diseases.
There are food guidelines here in China, too.
Definitely.
We'll talk about that a bit later.
But the reason we're talking about the US one is not because we believe that is the one for us and we should follow that.
But because we kind of also want to know what is happening out there and also what we can learn from that.
So what triggered this major change?
Well, I think the health issues in the United States are one of the major reasons, if not the major reasons, that this change was deemed necessary.
Because the public health guidelines, those are responding to an epidemic of obesity and diabetes and heart disease.
So this focus has moved away from refined carbs and added sugars, as we just talked about, because those are key drivers of overconsumption number one.
So you're buying too much of this stuff, you're eating too much of this stuff and it's leading to those health complications.
They're moving away from that towards protein adequacy and Adequacy is an important word there because it means don't overdo it with the protein, which is kind of a thing in America now.
But you're also meant to make healthier fat choices, eat whole foods.
And it's also not an endorsement for extreme diets.
But the goal is to stabilize blood sugar, improve satisfaction after a meal, meaning you don't feel like you need to eat more, even within a short amount of time.
And ultimately, the goal, I think, is to reduce chronic disease in a food environment in the United States and Canada we can say Canada is guilty of this as well a food environment that's dominated, completely dominated, by ultra processed products.
Before taking the focus back to China.
I'm still a little bit confused about only one thing, that is, from 150 pages to 10 pages.
Hopefully more people would want to read the 10 page guideline and try to find a better way to diet for themselves.
But that's still not a sure thing.
That's still not something that we can count on.
So how can a guideline change this drastically really help?
Well, I think, first of all for me, For example for the first question is to why do we need such guidelines?
I think these guidelines is not sort of a legally binding responsibilities for the general public that you have to follow every day legally.
But that sort of gave a framework for school lunches, for school meal programs.
And also one nutritionist that a lot of, I think, Americans all seek these days when they are seeking doctor advice.
These guidelines will also be their rule book to rely on.
Yeah, and it's not just for schools.
From what I understand school lunch and breakfast programs, they are legally required to align with the guidelines.
And that is really an important thing, and that's why you said, like people aren't legally required to follow.
Yeah, that's right, individuals are not um, but school programs are, and that means that every day, over 30 million american kids are served meals that are based on these new guidelines, these new standards and and this is also an important thing for the future of the health industry in the country.
There are a lot of health problems with children In the United States, and making this change is deemed absolutely necessary.
There was a study that was done and this is a quote from Marty Macari, who is the commissioner of food and drugs.
Forty percent of children currently have a chronic health condition.
He also mentioned in the story.
There was a 2021 study that was published that found a majority of US children and teenagers caloric intake came from ultra processed foods between 1999 and 2018, increasing from 61 to 67 percent in that period.
So think about that.
Forty percent of kids currently have a chronic health condition and up to 67 percent of the caloric intake of an American child or teenager comes from ultra-processed foods.
Again, that's from 1999 to 2018, but that's a significant window.
Yes, and ultra-processed food is definitely something that we're trying to avoid, not only after the guideline but also before.
It was talked about many of many different types of nutrition's advising to avoid ultra processed food.
Yet on social media platforms, on short to video platforms, I've seen videos of entitled preparing for my school kid and i lunch back.
Yeah, and the lunch bags.
People put sugar, candy crackers, a little bit of fruit in the school lunch bag, which looks cold and not delicious and a little too much processed.
Hope that can change.
Yeah, and also the amount of sugar intake Not only children but also adults are taking in these days, especially when it comes to protein bars or protein shakes.
Yeah.
If you, if you do an Internet search, just just search this America's obsession with protein and look at the number of articles that pop up.
It's in everything these days and it's used as a marketing tool.
Yeah, people want to intake more protein, but they are not aware of the amount of sugar added to those protein bars or chips or I don't know shakes or whatever products that they are trying to eat.
How about the situation here in China?
Last year we've seen a campaign, a national campaign, of asking people to take care of themselves, starting from managing their weight to going to different clinics and different nutrients nutritionist to ask for maybe sometimes even a diet for them.
But in general, we also have a guideline for our people here in the country.
Yeah, we have what we call Chinese food guide pagoda.
It's not in the shape of a triangle, but in the shape of a pagoda.
And on the base, which is the wide base of the pagoda, is cereals and tubbers carbohydrates, And then it followed by vegetables, fruit and also meat fish, poultry meat and eggs, and also dairy as well.
So for China's food pagoda, the philosophy is really balanced diversity, meaning that even for the carbohydrate base, they're encouraging people to not only consume whole wheat, but also potatoes and beans and vegetables.
Just eat as many different varieties as possible on a daily basis.
And also when it comes to vegetables.
They also encourage people to include vegetables in every meal and ensure a daily intake of no less than 300 grams of fresh vegetables with dark colored vegetables making at least half of the total, meaning greens or purple ones or red ones, basically vegetables with colors, not just cabbages.
I didn't do enough research to claim the situation for people here in China, but based on my friend circle and the people I talked to, I think we don't have a huge problem when it comes to sugar that we mentioned earlier in the States.
I think we try to, at least try.
When we're having milkshake or milk tea we try to have lower sugar, like half the sugar or 50, 30 the sugar added in a milk tea.
But we do also talk about the fact that we take in too much salt.
So I think definitely different countries or people from different regions would have different sort of problems.
One health issue here in China that the country is trying to target would be the so-called three highs.
Yes.
First one is salt.
We are one of the highest salt intakes countries in the world.
That doubled the WHO recommendation level.
Doubled it.
Doubled it.
We love preserved vegetables, salted fish and meat.
And also we put a lot of salt in soy sauce, which also has a lot of salt in it as well.
So that's the primary driver for a lot of the high blood pressure cases that we see in this country.
And also We also want to put a cap on the use of oil, because when you think about the traditional stir-fry in Chinese cuisines now, it's increasingly becoming deep-fry, or heavy oil in modern, especially if you're eating out in restaurants.
Yummy.
It is yummy.
But that's also contributing to the high blood pressure and also heart diseases.
So the Pagoda is limiting cooking oil to 25 to 30 grams per day.
So it's not very much as well.
And I did say that sugar people are looking at or paying attention to their sugar intake.
But the thing about Chinese cuisine is that not only can you get the sugar from your milk tea, you can also get it from different dish.
And that is hard to look at.
Yeah.
Sugar doesn't just mean candy or chocolate.
It's in a lot of different things.
And sometimes it's hard to identify.
And that's why reading labels is is becoming more important for us.
Yeah, back to the food guidelines.
One of the criticisms about the American one America is a diverse culture, right?
It's a diverse society.
And that's one of the criticisms is that it can't be a one size fits all plan, because it doesn't account for the guidelines, don't account for cultural diets or even individual health conditions or even access to fresh foods.
Not every community has access to the same fresh fruits and vegetables and meats.
So yeah, it's not a perfect and I don't think it's possible to design a perfect guideline, but that is one of the criticisms about it.
And one thing we can do, try to do, and China is trying out is to design different diets or different types of nutrient plans for people living in different parts of the country.
If you're living in the southern part, they will design the kind of diet that contain the kind of fruit that are easy to find for you.
And the southern part, the west part and east part would have different types of diet.
That's one thing.
But another thing is I think I agree with Steve when he says it's not a one-type-fits-all kind of solution.
Previously on Roundtable we talked about food sequencing, meaning that you eat the same type of food, same quantity, but you eat them in different orders and that would change how your digesting system would react.
But at that time we also talked about the fact that it only shows how your digestive system would react, but with different problems you're trying to tackle, with different goal you're trying to achieve.
That order would change for kids who want to gain some weight.
You want to have the quick carbon first.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaking of kids, this is one of the major kind of criticisms I have.
I mean, you talk about the fact that schools have to follow these guidelines.
Well schools.
You know a school nutritionist or a person in charge of the school program would tell you that they would need a lot more resources and support.
It's not cheap. to run a healthy kitchen.
That's in the school.
But the problem I have is with the advertising, the things that we are exposed to from a very young age.
I was watching a football game from the United States a few days ago and I happened to notice every single television commercial related to food was for something deep fried or ultra processed.
Everyone.
Now, obviously, you can't really have a TV commercial for a carrot.
Nobody's going to care.
Nobody wants it.
Right.
It's not going to be money well spent from the company's point of view.
But that being said, over 80 percent.
This is from United States focus.
Over 80 percent of the nearly 14 billion dollars spent annually on food marketing in America is dedicated to promoting candy, sugary drinks, snacks and fast foods.
So if you want to come out with a government guideline that says more proteins, more healthy fats, less of this, but then you're allowing your advertising industry to say to children by the way, these are targeted towards children.
A lot of these advertisements go bug your mom or dad or whoever, the next time you go to the market for this sugary cereal.
That's talking out of both sides of your mouth, in my opinion.
So it doesn't add up.
Whenever this topic comes up, I kind of get annoyed because I'm always reminded of the advertising industry and how ultra-processed foods are just shoved down our throats through advertisements.
And that is why we need to talk more.
Well definitely, we can talk about regulations in the advertisement industry as well, but we can also talk more about different kind of theories when it comes to nutrient and how to better manage our own individual health conditions by looking at what we eat and by learning a bit more so that we can design a better diet for ourselves.
And that brings us to the end of today's roundtable.
Thank you so much for staying with us.
Stay curious, stay informed, and keep the conversation going.
I'm Niu Honglin with Steve and Fei Fei.
Bye-bye.
