You're listening to TED Talks Daily, where we bring you new ideas and conversations to spark your curiosity every day.
I'm your host, Elise Hu.
Today's talk is part of our new TED Fellows Films adapted for podcasts, just for our TED Talks Daily listeners.
This is part of a special series of episodes we release throughout the year, showcasing the incredible stories behind the TED Fellows program, which supports a network of global innovators.
Today, we'd like you to meet biotechnologist Patricia Aima Maldonado.
Patricia is a self-described bacteria trainer who thinks that these tiny microorganisms that are impossible to see with the naked eye are actually Earth's greatest superheroes.
She presents a groundbreaking technology that trains bacteria to transform organic waste into biodegradable plastic that behaves like the real thing and digs into why this sustainable approach could revolutionize the plastics industry.
After we hear from Patricia, stick around for her conversation with TED Fellows Program Director, Lily James Olds.
I remember all my childhood being at the doctor and my freaking pneumonia were due to bacteria.
At high school I went to a natural science fair and I met two older students that they told me that they were like modifying bacteria for producing proteins and solve hunger in the world.
And that scenario just changed my life because I didn't know the potential of bacteria.
They are the most special creature on earth because they are super powerful.
They just can kill you or save you in a second.
I am Patricia Imam Maldonado and I am a bacteria trainer.
In 2018, I founded the company.
We are producing a biodegradable bioplastic with bacteria that eat organic waste.
I think that plastic isn't a problem itself.
It's how we produce it, how we use it, and how we dispose of it.
Plastic is crucial for different social, technological, and medical advancements.
We use it in whatever you can think.
Plastic is light.
Plastic is soft.
Plastic is flexible.
And it has a very good performance that not other products can give.
We need plastic.
Traditional plastic is extracted from petrol sources.
Petrol-based plastics stick around for a long time.
And only 9% of the plastic in the world is recycled.
90% of the plastic is incinerated and 50% goes to landfills.
When it gets recycled, it loses quality.
So it is quite important to mix it again with virgin plastic in order to have the best application of the product.
When I mean virgin plastic, I mean the plastic that is extracted for the first time from this fraction of the petroleum.
Data from 2023, it shows that extraction of virgin plastic has increased.
So that means that we are promoting recycling and also virgin production plastic is increasing.
So it is the perfect illusion of sustainability.
If we do nothing, In 2050, there will be more plastic than fish in the sea.
It is still growing and will continue growing if we do not change how the system is accountable on that, because it often seems that the full responsibility falls into individuals.
No matter how you try to avoid single-use plastics, no matter how you separate properly at your home, it will never be enough.
A company puts a plastic product and the customer has to take care of the planet.
I need that plastic.
You are not giving me another solution.
They have to start thinking about the future.
It's time to be accountable and to substitute this type of material for the ones that can take care of the planet.
So a bioplastic is a plastic that meets one of these two conditions.
It is bioplastic from its origin.
That means there is no petrol-based plastic.
Or it is a bioplastic for its end of life.
That means that it is biodegradable or compostable.
Our bioplastic is double bioplastic from its origin to its end of life.
We work with agri-food companies, for example, a beer production company, and they give to us the leftover or the spent yeast from the beer production.
At first stage, we have a group of bacterias that cook the waste, okay?
They are like the chef.
And they cook the waste so that it's really tasty.
For a second stage, another one group of bacteria take that tasty waste and produce the bioplastic.
And at the end, we obtain the bioplastic.
This is a thing that some kind of bacteria can do.
Not all the bacteria can do.
And it's an adaptive survival skill.
You have to ask bacteria for doing something, and she will do it.
For me, bacteria is a goal.
So it's a super girl.
We work with a system that is installed there, where the waste is generated in the customer facilities.
And we start taking the waste directly into our model, our box.
And that is working 24 hours a day.
It is a new scenario for companies working with us.
They go from managing a waste into having a real benefit, a real value, because they do not have to change machines.
They have to change the mentality.
Right now, we're already treating three tons of spent yeast in a day.
We take 300 grams of spent yeast to produce one kilo of our bioplastic.
It has the same appearance, and it behaves really similar.
It means that it can melt.
It can flow.
It can enter in the machines.
It can give you, like, strength, you know?
And you just can make the same products as petrol-based plastics.
Right now this bioplastic is already working in luxury, like the perfume, the cosmetics healthcare, whatever you can imagine with a plastic that behaves as a petrol-based plastic you know.
If you throw the plastic away, I don't want you to do that, by the way.
I want you to separate properly.
But if you do it, then we can expect that bioplastic gets to the marine environment.
And maybe...
In four months, it can biodegrade in 90%, depending on the width that the bioplastic has.
You cannot make microplastics with bioplastics.
It is organic.
It breaks naturally, like in small compounds, and is food for other bacteria, for other microorganisms.
This bacteria right now and having our plant already functioning, working with three tons of organic waste a day, transforming this into bioplastic, it puts us in the first line of this marathon, this global marathon.
This is a new way, a new alternative to take care of the planet.
It is what I work for and it is really worthy.
Up next a special conversation between Patricia and TED Fellows program director, Lily James Olds, where they discuss what led Patricia to her love of microorganisms and how the technology she developed actually works, her team's plans to scale it and more.
That's coming up right after a short break.
Hi, Patricia.
Welcome.
I'm so looking forward to speaking with you today.
Hello, Lily.
Okay, so I have to start with this.
You call yourself a bacteria trainer, a term I've never heard used before, and I'm guessing I'm not the only one.
What does that actually mean?
Tell us how you work with bacteria.
So calling myself a bacteria trainer is the best way I can explain what I do.
It's simple and it's true.
And it makes people to stop and say, wait, what?
And sometimes science sounds too serious and people lose interest.
So this concept helps me to get their attention and shows how amazing biotechnology really is.
Going deeper.
So bacteria don't have brains, of course, but they respond precisely to the conditions we create.
So I study their behavior, understand their needs and design the preferred conditions for them to perform at their best.
So in practice that means adjusting the environment, the nutrients, the pH, the temperature, the oxygen levels and even the timing of the growth cycles.
And in my case, I train them to transform industrial organic waste into fully biodegradable, microplastic-free bioplastics.
You know, I think one of the things that stood out to me when we were talking before is that obviously a lot of us have known for years that recycling sadly, isn't that effective.
But it surprised me to hear you explain how recycling actually requires the use of more virgin or new materials, plastic production, which of course seems totally counterproductive to the point of recycling in the first place.
And, you know, you called that, I think, the perfect illusion of sustainability.
Can you tell me a little bit more about how your company is doing things differently?
So, yeah, we've been told for years that recycling will fix everything, but it hasn't.
Only 9% of the wall plastic gets recycled.
The rest is either incinerated approximately 19, landfill 50 or simply lost in the environment.
That is at 22.
And here's the shocking part.
The more we recycle, the more virgin plastic we produce.
So plastic is made of long polymer chains.
And when we cut or damage those chains during mechanical recycling, they become shorter.
And that means that the material has fewer possible uses.
Recycling is not a magical solution.
A bottle may become a shampoo bottle at first, then a playground floor, and then a pipe.
And that's the end of the life.
So mechanical recycling lose quality of recycle.
So it always needs to be blend with new plastic that we call virgin plastic, the plastic that is extracted for the first time from petroleum sources.
So in other words, the system has never designed to reduce production.
It was designed to maintain it.
So we say, that is the perfect allusion.
But because we promote recycling, global plastic pollution keeps increasing.
Mechanical recycling is just kicking the problem into the future.
It delays the waste and it's not solving the problem.
I mean, those stats on recycling are, that's just wild and depressing.
Yeah.
You know, I feel like some might be hearing that and thinking what's the point of recycling to begin with?
And I know you and your company are doing things differently, but can you speak to that?
We have two types of recycling, OK, mechanical that I've talked before and chemical.
And chemical recycling could help in the future because it breaks plastic down to its basic molecules.
So you can make a new virgin material again, but right now it's extremely expensive.
So the point is that we're recycling today because that's the system we have.
If someone at home is listening right now thinking, why should I recycle?
Please don't stop.
It still matters, okay?
Because the system right now is this, and we are part of the system.
The industry is huge and we can't pretend it will disappear overnight.
And today, the most sustainable thing we can do is limit the consumption and recycle what we use.
But if we want a real system level change, we must reduce the creation of these problematic waste in the first place.
And that means rethinking the material itself.
So we are not endlessly trying to repair a system built on materials that were never designed to be circular.
We also need to push companies to take responsibility, to adopt better materials, better designs and better alternatives like bioplastics.
So at Benvero we work with bacteria that eat organic waste and turn it into a fully biodegradable, microplastic-free bioplastic, a material that comes from organic waste and returns to organic matter when it degrades.
So, instead of creating a material that needs rescuing, we create one that never becomes a problem in the first place.
Change doesn't happen only in our kitchens.
It happens when all the industry, all the system is accountable.
Right.
And you talk about this earlier too, right?
How do we start to shift the responsibility to the companies that manufacture the plastic unsustainably to begin with?
And I guess specifically, what feels actually possible right now?
Yeah.
So we spent so many years telling people to recycle better, to buy less plastic and choose the right bin.
Yet during all this time, the industry has continued producing materials that simply cannot be recycled at scale.
So a quick visit to the supermarket shows how almost everything is wrapped in plastic that you never ask for.
But the moment you reach the checkout, the responsibility suddenly becomes yours.
You can take a plastic bag, a material that we all know is harmful, as long as you pay for it.
So the truth is that the system offers very few real options.
And this is where we need like a mindset shift.
The important thing here is not to blame the material itself, but to understand what it is designed for and ensure it's the end of life match with the purpose.
And if a customer wants to help change the rules, they can by calling out on sustainable packaging publicity, or maybe by using social media to demand better materials, or by supporting brands that generally innovate and question those that don't, by asking supermarkets why something is right the way it is, or by voting parties that support innovation, not just policies that focus almost entirely on recycling.
So regulations should open the door to alternative materials so we can move toward more sustainable options.
We are in a moment of a big change and we need consumers to stay as informed as possible and keep their mind open.
How many other companies are doing what you're doing?
Are you all alone in this process?
Or where are we in that shift of thinking and starting this transition and systems change from the beginning instead of the end and putting it on the consumer?
Where do you and your team sit in the landscape?
Please tell me.
There are many others doing this work.
Yes.
So as I said before, we have different many bioplastics in the market.
And these bioplastics.
It is important to know what is the origin of the bioplastics and what is going to be the end of life.
So this is our case.
We come from biological sources and also we can biodegrade in the environment.
But there are bioplastics that come from biological sources, but they cannot biodegrade, and also other type of bioplastics that can come from petrol-based sources, but they can biodegrade.
So they enter in the same scenario.
At the end.
What is important here is to know what do you want to use the material and what is going to be the end of life of the material.
So much alternatives will come in the next years.
We need the industry with their mind open, because we need them to test the new products and also that we need them to help us scale all these processes so that this is economically feasible for them.
So you mentioned Patricia, that your bioplastic doesn't create microplastics as it breaks down into those natural organic compounds.
Can you say a little bit more specifically about why that is such a breakthrough?
Yeah, it is important to say that because there is so much malinformation or fake news about everything.
I think that it is quite dangerous to talk about this, but microplastics are one of the biggest silent pollutions of all time.
They are invisible and they are getting everywhere in the sea, in the soil, in the air and already inside our bodies.
So most conventional plastics never fully disappear, and they simply break into these small pieces that persist for decades.
So our material can break into small pieces, but because it is fully biodegradable, those pieces continue degrading until they disappear completely.
So it transforms into harmless organic compounds that microorganisms can naturally consume.
So there is no toxicity and, more important, no microplastic residue.
We know that the biodegradation of our bioplastic is safe for the environment, thanks to certifications like TUV Austria.
They verify that our material is safe for the specific environment or the end-of-life scenario that will be used.
And I guess another question I have is you know, I think when we think of bioplastics, sometimes it seems like it might not be as durable or as long-lasting if it's also capable of, you know, completely degrading and being composted.
Can you speak to those fears?
It's important to clarify something.
Biodegradable doesn't mean that it disappears anywhere.
I think that the word has often been used too loosely.
So Lily, are you afraid to walk down the street with a cardboard folder because it might biodegrade in your hands?
Terrified.
No, just kidding.
No, of course not.
So you trust that it's made of an organic material, this cardboard folder, and that will only break down when the time is right.
And you know it will never turn into microplastics.
So that's the exact same idea.
The important thing to understand is that biodegradation depends on the environment, not on the material's performance.
Our bioplastic works like any conventional plastic during its normal use and it can handle temperature pressure, transport and production processes, and durability is not the issue.
The biodegradation process only starts when the material enters the right conditions humidity, microorganisms or a composting environment.
But it doesn't need a traditional recycling facility.
You're saying it just needs to be in the right context in the environment to be able to break down properly.
Yeah, depending on the final formulation and the final use of the plastic.
So, for example, if we create the material for agriculture films, we can program it to biodegrade in the soil once the crop cycle is finished.
And if we design a premium perfume cup Then it will have like another type of formulation that assures that only with a big temperature in an industrial composting system can just start biodegradation.
I think the most important question here is what are you going to use your bioplastic?
Will have a formulation that will like access faster humidity and microorganisms inside or not?
And stick with us.
We'll be right back after a short break.
I'm curious, what challenges are you facing when it comes to scaling up this technology?
I mean, it's good to hear that there's others that are trying to do this work as well.
But what are those challenges when you think about scaling up and doing this at an even larger level?
Scaling with biotechnology is never a linear process.
Every step becomes more complex as you grow.
Like when you increase volume, you don't get new problems.
You get the same problems, but magnified.
So one of the biggest challenges is simply time.
The time it takes to detect an issue and the time you have to fix it before it affects the whole batch.
So the challenge is not only to grow.
It's to grow while keeping the full stability, the high quality and the constant performance across all the stages we have.
So scaling biotechnology is a race between the biology, the engineering and the time.
So right now we are improving all these three at once.
And I'm curious, what role does the oil industry play in all of this?
Do they have a part in some of these challenges that we're facing?
Yeah, it's a complex relationship.
For example, if you want to do a plastic cup, you have the company that have like the mold.
That is something really special in the plastic industry because every product has its mold.
They buy specified material to the petrol, oil, plastic industry, right?
And this company has had this material for a long time, like more than 50 and 100 years.
They have these materials and they have performed the R&D and everything.
And right now they just take it.
They know how to put it in the machines and they have the plastic cup at the end.
OK, it's so easy.
They don't need to change anything because it's really an established system.
And also it's really cheap, because if our bioplastic costs three or four or five euros kilo, they cost 15.
So they have a big scale system that is already established.
It's easy to buy, easy to use, and the machines are adapted to that.
So they are not willing to change because the system works like this.
For years we haven't talked with this type of companies because the system is so established that it's something that they don't fear right now.
Right.
So there's no, at this moment, there's not yet in place any kinds of incentives to help grow what you're doing.
So it seems like that's a real place that there's growth needed.
I've listened about the lobby, the plastic lobby, just recent news from the COP 30 conference.
They talk about the plastic pollution and they didn't get a commitment there.
So they have a lobby for sure.
They control also the interests of different governments.
And if a country has petrol, they have plastic.
So it is quite a complex scenario here.
It is a system change.
So we are starting with the companies that they have a purpose on what they do.
And they are engaged on that purpose.
And then the change will come, because if you want to be relevant, you have to have a very good purpose.
And sustainability is the purpose that you need to have if you want to be relevant in the future.
Yeah.
And I guess, what are your hopes?
Let's go there.
What are your hopes for how what you're doing and what others are doing could scale and what could be possible in the next five or 10 years?
What's the future that you imagine and want to see as it relates to this coming in the horizon?
Yeah, so I hope we move from probing the technology to deploying it at scale.
And there are different sides.
On the bio process side, our goal is to multiply the capacity by orders of magnitude.
So not by building one giant plant, but by creating this network of modular facilities that can be replicated near the source of the organic waste.
So if we can concentrate these organic wastes and efficiently produce the bioplastic in big reactors in full stability, we can convert huge amounts of global waste streams into bioplastic.
And I want this technology to be a standard infrastructure.
But the real hope goes beyond our company.
I want to see materials that are designed to disappear become the norm.
I want the industries to adopt them not as an exception or maybe as a fear, but as a default.
And I want cities to be organic waste, not as a problem, but as our raw material.
And if we get this right, scaling won't just mean producing more bioplastic.
It will mean redesigning the entire segment of the materials economy so that the things we use every day are returned to the environment and never become pollution again.
I love that.
That's a beautiful place to end the conversation.
Thank you for this, Patricia.
It's always so lovely to talk to you and hear about your bacteria training.
So thanks for joining us today.
Thank you very much, Lily.
That was Patricia Aima Maldonado, a 2025 TED Fellow.
To learn more about the TED Fellows program and watch all the TED Fellows films, go to fellowstedcom.
And that's it for today.
This episode was produced by Lucy Little, edited by Alejandra Salazar and fact-checked by Eva Dasher.
The audio you heard at the top comes from the short film made by Divya Gidangi and Owen McLean story edited by Corey Hajim and produced by Ian Lowe.
Video production manager is Searing Dolma.
Additional support from Lily James Olds, Leonie Horster, and Allegra Pearl.
TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective.
Our team includes Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Green, Lucy Little and Tansika Sangmarnivong.
Additional support from Emma Taubner and Daniela Balarezo.
I'm Elise Hu.
I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed.
Thanks for listening.
