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You're listening to TED Talks Daily, where we bring you new ideas to spark your curiosity every day.
I'm your host, Elise Hu.
As many of you know, here on TED Talks Daily, we have our own book club series.
Once a month I sit down with TED speakers who have new books out and we talk about their work and the big ideas that shape them.
A few times a year, we host one of these conversations live for the TED membership community.
Our last event of the year will be November 4th with the author and TEDx speaker, Oliver Berkman.
And I'm super excited to let you all know that, for the first time ever, I am hosting a virtual read along of his book Meditations for Mortals four weeks to embrace your limitations and make time for what counts.
I'd love for you to join me for the read along.
I really am a huge fan of Oliver Berkman and his work.
The live event happens on November 4th.
You can follow me on Instagram at Elise Who, that's E-L-I-S-E-W-H-O, where I'll be sharing some thoughts and prompts about the book leading up to the event.
And if you are intrigued, head to TED.com slash join to sign up and RSVP.
Reading Oliver's book has made me think of the many incredible talks and conversations we have shared over the years that dig into big questions of how to embrace who we are and what we wanna be, how to make the most of our time.
Today, as we get started on week one of our virtual read along, we're sharing this archive TED membership conversation from 2021.
It's with TED curator Whitney Pennington Rogers, who sits down with clinical psychologist Meg Jay to talk about how to close the empathy gap between you and your future self.
We need to talk about the empathy gap.
So the empathy gap is why we sometimes hate on people on the other end of the political spectrum.
Or it's why maybe, we shrug our shoulders at the problems of those who look different or live different or love different than we do.
It's why we almost certainly aren't doing enough to protect our kids and grandkids from climate change.
It can just be difficult sometimes to care about people that we don't know, or to do right by people who don't even exist yet.
But what if I told you that that same empathy gap can also get in the way of us doing right by ourselves in our 20s and beyond?
And before I go on, let me say that everything I'm about to talk about also applies to all of us out there who are well beyond our 20s.
But for a little bit of background, in 2013, I gave a talk about why our 20s matter.
So it's about almost 10 years later.
I'm still a clinical psychologist who specializes in 20-somethings.
But these days, the 20-somethings I see, they know their 20s matter.
So they want to get them right.
They want to move to the right city.
They want to take the right job.
They want to find the right partner.
They want to have the right answers.
Well, the bad news is there are no right answers.
There are no right answers for where you should live, or where you should work, or how you should settle down.
These are what are called large world problems because there are just too many unknowns.
No app, no algorithm, no Enneagram can ever solve these problems or answer these questions for you.
But the good news is because there are no right answers, there are no wrong answers.
There are only your answers.
So your 20s are a great time to listen to and be honest with yourself.
They're a great time to have a conversation with your future self.
So philosopher Derek Parfit said, we neglect our future selves because of some sort of failure of belief or imagination.
So I'm going to say that again because it's really important.
We neglect our future selves because of some sort of failure of belief or imagination.
So when you're young, it can be difficult to imagine or believe that you could ever really be 35, especially when most of the influencers you see on Instagram or TikTok are younger than that.
But that's a problem, because research shows that our brains think about our future selves similarly to how they think about strangers.
And that's where the empathy gap comes in.
It can be difficult for us to care about a version of ourselves that we haven't met yet.
Yet research also shows that if we find a way to close that empathy gap between our present selves and our future selves, we start to think more about what we could do now to be kind to ourselves down the line.
So in one of my favorite studies on this, researchers used virtual reality to show 20-somethings what they would look like when they're old.
Scary, I know, but the 20-somethings who saw their age-morphed selves set aside more money towards retirement than those who didn't.
So I don't have virtual reality in my office, and saving for retirement isn't something that comes up a whole lot.
But what does come up a whole lot is that about 85 of life's most defining moments take place by around age 35.
So I asked my clients to imagine themselves at age 35.
And I asked them to believe in their ability to have created those defining moments.
And then I asked them to get really specific about what they see.
What do I look like?
Where do I live?
What do I do for work?
Do I enjoy the work?
Is it meaningful?
Is it important?
Does it pay well?
Might these things be true one day?
Which of these things do I really care about?
What about after work?
Who do I come home to?
Do I have a partner?
What does that relationship look like?
How does it look different or similar to the ones that I saw growing up?
Are there kids in the picture?
How old was I when I had my first child?
How old might I be when that child goes to college or has their own kids?
And of course, am I happy?
Am I healthy?
And what exactly do I do or not do that makes me happy and healthy?
So the idea here is just to try to get to know your future self, because when we spend time connecting with that person, we do some reverse engineering and we start to ask our present self questions about how our present and our future can come together or meet somewhere in the middle along the way.
We start to ask questions like, how is everything I think I want going to fit?
Or what does all this mean about what I need to be doing now?
Or here's one of my favorite questions to ask yourself at any age.
If I'm in a job or a relationship or a situation I would like not to be in in five years, then how much longer am I going to spend on this?
So, like I said, many of these are tough questions, but 20 years of doing this work has taught me that 20-somethings aren't afraid of being asked the tough questions.
What they're really afraid of is not being asked the tough questions.
And maybe that's because they've told the world that they're interested in having courageous conversations about race and class and politics and the environment.
And perhaps at any age.
One of the most courageous conversations you can have is with your future self.
Thank you.
Thank you so much, Meg.
That was wonderful.
And I know that your work is with people in their twenties, young adults, but, and you mentioned in your talk though, that this is something you can apply at any stage of your life.
And at any point, it's not just advice that you should use in your twenties.
Is that right?
Oh, yes.
I mean, I think our 20s is when we first start having to sort of figure out oh, there's a future self out there.
And I guess I better think about that person because you know, like school kind of does it for us, you know, has us plot, you know two or three years in advance.
So our 20s are when we first start to think across those horizons.
We get better at it over time.
And then in our 30s, 40s, 50s, we have more built-in connections to the future.
Like, maybe if you have kids, you think hey, I really want to be around when they graduate from college, or whatever the case may be.
So it becomes a little bit more natural the older that you get, but it's always important.
I have a couple in my practice right now and they're actually having a conversation with their future relationship because in about five years their kids are going to be leaving for college and they want to be sure they have a marriage they feel good about when the kids are gone.
Or if I think about myself, I'm 51.
So I'm having a conversation with my future self about hey, you know, What do I want to get out of the years of my career that are just ahead in my 50s?
And time's running out.
What is it I want to get done?
So I think we always need to be in conversation with our future self.
It's just something that's new and usually quite difficult for 20-somethings.
So I guess one thing I'm curious about is people have said, OK, I like this idea of these questions.
I want to ask myself these questions.
And they do that.
And then what happens?
I guess, what do you recommend people do next?
What is the way that they can take this further to advance themselves and this thinking?
Yeah.
So you know again, it depends on the goal, or you know what ended up happening between you and your future self in this conversation.
But I think like most long form projects.
So I would suggest some.
You know, pencil and paper, you know, do some math sort of sketch out some things, just to start with.
And then...
As you go along you might realize other things that are important to you down the line, that you want to be sure that you get in there and add in there.
And then I would figure out.
It depends on what it is, but a schedule that works for you, where you check in about your progress on you know.
Hey, am I being true to myself and to my future self in terms of what I said?
I was going to start prioritizing more.
So maybe that check-in is...
Once a month, maybe it's every year on New Year's, maybe it's your birthday.
It really kind of depends.
But I do think I mean having this conversation one time, because you, you know, heard my chat today and then dropping it is probably not going to do a lot for you.
But if it's kind of the beginning of an ongoing conversation with yourself and you know, like with any goal, it's probably something we need to keep circling back around on of OK, is that, is this still what I want, and how am I doing on this kind of create some accountability?
And so for that.
That is where I think some people find I'm going to tell a friend, or I'm going to tell my pastor, or I'm going to you know, write it in my journal, or whatever it is for you to kind of say this is a goal that I'm going to own and I'm going to keep coming back to it.
Have some sort of partner whether, even if that partner is yourself, it sounds like that you're your future self, right?
Right.
Well Mike, thank you so much for for being with us today, for your, for your talk and for sharing so much of your wisdom around these questions, and you know your twenties and so much more.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah, my pleasure.
It was really fun.
That was Meg Jay in conversation with Whitney Pennington Rogers at a TED membership event in 2021.
And for those of you who are interested in joining us for our last live book club conversation of the year on November 4th with author Oliver Berkman, visit TEDcom slash.
Join to sign up and RSVP.
If you're curious about TED's curation, find out more at TED.com slash curation guidelines.
And that's it for today.
TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective.
This talk was produced and edited by our team Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Green, Lucy Little and Tansika Sungmarnivong.
This episode was mixed by Lucy Little.
Additional support from Emma Taubner and Daniela Balarezo.
I'm Elise Hu.
I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed.
Thanks for listening.
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