Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable.
You're listening to Roundtable with myself, Hyung.
I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Yushan in the studio.
Coming up. Feet sore, stress high.
Foot therapy is here to save the day.
From steamy herbal soaks to those hurt so good massages.
We take a look at why this ancient practice is a contemporary favorite.
And whether it's the world of pop culture, technology or something that touches your heart, we're here to discuss in our heart to heart segment.
Drop us a line at Roundtable podcast at qq .com or go big and send us a voice memo.
We're all yours and you get to hear your voice on our show.
Our podcast listeners can find us at Roundtable China on Apple Podcast and the podcast platform of your choice.
Now let's switch gears.
Foot therapy is where pain meets pleasure and your tired feet come out victorious.
Picture this. Your feet first enjoy a luxurious soak in a warm, fragrant herbal bath.
Soften up for what's next.
Then comes the massage.
Those expert fingers press into pressure points you didn't know even existed with laser like precision.
It's a mix of ouch and awe that somehow works magic.
The result? A wave of soothing relaxation washes over you.
By the end, you're floating on cloud nine.
Your feet thanking you for the VIP treatment they didn't know they needed.
Perfect for office workers, juggling screens, deadlines, and the occasional existential crisis.
Foot therapy, part of a broader embrace of traditional Chinese medicine or TCM, wellness practices, has captured the hearts of Chinese young people.
So what is foot therapy which actually extends more than the massage and why is it so good?
Can I just start by saying Ho Yang you are such a poet and concluding the whole process in such a poetic way that even listening to it brings you this aesthetic enjoyment imagining such scene.
I imagined you standing out on the street foot massage shop dressed in some sort of Shakespearean clothing.
Yes that was very nicely said.
Yeah so what are we talking about here?
Foot therapy, reflexology Yeah that's a that's a more theoretical way to pit it.
So when we talk about foot therapy it primarily refers to this traditional Chinese foot massage which draws upon the principles of traditional Chinese medicine, TCM, but also is combined with other wellness practices as well including like soaking your feet like Ho Yang mentioned and also some other
massaging experiences combined altogether and this type of foot therapy is not just a simple massage like we mentioned is a holistic experience that aims to improve the overall well -being of your entire body.
Now I must admit I haven't gone yet but I've been curious and even in our own neighborhood here just outside our studios about a block away there's kind of a long street that has a lot of places to eat but mixed in and I don't know if I'm sure you've noticed this but mixed in with all those restaurants
there are numerous spas there on both sides of the street and some of them seem fancier than others but I stopped at one shop just out of curiosity one day just to check the prices and it's really really affordable it's not expensive at all.
I think you know being Canadian and when I hear my mom and my sisters talk about you know going for a spa day or something it can cost up to hundreds of dollars right but going for this type of foot therapy especially in our neighborhood not expensive at all.
Well it really depends yeah but hundreds of dollars or US dollars for one session that's definitely out of reach for most Chinese people I think we're talking about difference in price level in different countries as well.
And for some stores I'm pretty sure we're not going to the same store but I'm sure it's on the same street we're talking about.
What makes you think you and I wouldn't go to the same place?
I'm sure you are going to the same place I'm going Steve.
I'm not in some rundown shack in the back of a van.
I know I'm just talking about the different prices I noticed because I know but the shop that I stopped by one day just like you I was trying to just look for how much they cost these days the one I went to cost about 400 yuan or a bit slightly above that for one 60 -minute spot just all over your body
it's not just on foot.
60, 70 dollars I think.
Somewhere in that range.
So it's like the medium if not a slightly higher a bit more luxurious experience I would say but now when we're talking about foot therapy it's more about that affordable but still enjoyable experience that's start with a foot soak that just prepares your skin on the foot.
Yes it's important.
Get tender and get ready for the massage and it's usually soaking your feet in the warm herbal bath plus rose petals and essential oils sometimes depending on the store that's providing the service and then after that is done you sound like you're there already.
Vicariously I live that experience again.
What else? Walk us through this a little bit what else after the foot bath?
You know what during the foot bath you can also get complimentary body massage on your shoulder on your head on your arms and just to boost that relaxation experience followed by afterwards after the bath then it comes to the foot massage areas I mean process so that you can sit up or lie down comfortably
on the massage chair where there is this professional therapist applying on various massage say massage ball points what did you call it again?
The reflexology points on your foot that certain areas can actually reflect to a certain part or system in your body some are referring to organs as well so by pressing on these points it's like hearing your whole body bit by bit.
Yeah I printed out this is my reflexology foot chart maybe if we have time I'll talk about a couple of places on there but the data suggests that this type of foot therapy is getting more and more popular as of late.
Between December of 2023 and January of 2024 orders for bath house services is one of China's leading lifestyle services platforms that's called Meituan am I pronouncing that correctly?
They surged by get this 200 % within that amount of time and then by the end of 2023 the number of therapy shops listed on that location had reached nearly 500 ,000 which is up from 300 ,000 the previous year so as we just talked about with more demand comes more supply.
Right and also the reflexology point you know that is intertwined with Chinese traditional Chinese medicine right and you guys mentioned as we did yesterday on yesterday's show about the reflection points and that's all TCM and Steve could you just help us understand a little bit better?
You know these aqua yes agricultural points and TCM and play and that's all done in that little area called the soul of your foot.
Yeah yeah well I mean it's all over your foot as a matter of fact let me choose just one location so if you're listening now take off your socks okay have you done it okay good job now put your finger hopefully your feet are clean put your finger on the arch of your foot and then go west towards the inside
of your foot and on the coast of your foot there that is the reflexology area of your kidneys now go a little south and that's the area of your spine go a little further south and that's the area of your bladder go over to the other coast of your foot if you will that's the small intestine area and if you
go north up to your toes your big toe your big toe at the front of your big toe that's the area connected to your brain.
I need to poke that area a bit more I couldn't do with the brain boost.
Yeah and I gave you what four three four five examples there all over your foot there are one two three four five oh my goodness maybe I don't know 40 50 spots to talk about.
Yeah and that's all with the origin of TCM and the philosophy of and studying of TCM but also I just like to go a little bit in depth and you know this foot therapy thing because it's huge in China right in case you didn't realize.
So there's the massage the pressing bit which we've sort of gone through in depth but what about shoujiao or like what about there's this whole big industry of fixing your feet.
Well by shoujiao I believe you're talking about food or rather just to pedicure right but that's part of it but in a it's more than that.
Yeah in the Western context pedicure referring to like grooming your nails to make them look pretty and shiny with nail polish supplied on your toenails.
And then they're like I don't gosh I don't know the names of the tools but that thing that they scratch on your foot to make it softer and get off the dead skin and everything.
That's the Western idea for pedicure but here in China when we go shoujiao or just to get that same experience they have that you know removing that skin part too but we focus a bit more on fixing the nail issues.
It's almost like conducting a tiny little surgery that I know just too well because personally I'm involved in this practice for way longer than I'd like to mention but yeah I've had this ingrown toenail situation been with me like genetically so I have to just conduct that little surgery every once
in a while to just make sure my nails are growing out instead of sticking in.
Oh and this is just one of the services that provided at at is this a specialty place or this is a common thing that you can find at all the types of shops.
Let's say not all foot therapy shops can do shoujiao or pedicure but those places that's labeled to to be able to provide you the pedicure service by that I mean the nail quote -unquote surgery surgery service they can also give you foot massage and the foot soaking service as well so it's like depending
on what you need you need to probably go to different shops.
Right and Steve you'll need to sort of it's best if you have a translator because with a lot of the foot massage shops it appears like that but actually on the plaque of the title of the shop is actually the foot operation thing that you Shen just mentioned and actually as we're doing research there's
this fascinating case study that came up a Mr.
Zhong Yuan he has built an empire a business empire around fixing people's feet and he comes from humble beginnings from a little village and then he's managed to listen to this create big job opportunities for his fellow villagers and build this business empire apparently he has a franchise store on Wall
Street in New York City now.
That's right that's also reported by China Daily as well in just early October this year that this Yuan Yuan group you see now it's a group now it's not just a chain store has just opened a pedicure salon in Brooklyn New York and that location is within the 30 minutes drive of New York City's three
major Chinese communities and only about 10 minutes from the World Financial Hub Wall Street.
Alright so guys what do you think is driving the customers to this kind of service?
It's interesting isn't it you know because it's not just yeah you gave Brooklyn as an example I think maybe when we think reflexology or when we think TCM we think this is really limited to China and it's just not the case anymore and I think part of the drive of what you're asking is that globally
TCM is being recognized as something that's legit and something that's attractive because for people who are you know we talked about it yesterday on the show how TCM is here in China is kind of interwoven into people's lifestyles but in the West that's not the case at all so it's new it's mysterious
it's exciting it's an alternative right I read because I was searching how popular is this actually in America and I was reading different blog posts and one woman wrote a blog post about the fact that she had been having trouble with her feet for years she kept going to the doctors in the States and they
couldn't help her out she finally turned to TCM and found an answer there and she was saying please read this post and please if you're in the same situation I was in please give this a try so I think that's what's driving it is that there's a there's an interest now around the world I found another
website in New Zealand about a shop that was boasting about all the services they provided TCM services they provided so it's global now yeah and also the the idea of TCM like Steve mentioned is already globally recognized as well especially in on October in May 25th May the 25th in 2019 when it was officially
adopted into the 11th vision version of the international statistical classification of diseases and related health problems and what that means is that TCM is now officially recognized by the World Health Assembly which is the governing body of the World Health Organization WHO as a traditional healthcare system
so that's that's also opening more opportunities for the Western people who is curious to learn about this previously so oriental idea and just explore that a bit more in fact while I was doing my research half of the web page I was reading form were all in either in North America or in Europe right
so it's really cool now that people are learning about it yeah it is it is an exciting time to be in TCM I suppose and oh I just read last night one of our listeners texted a comment on so Joe and says that hey surprise my favorite show roundtables doing this TCM topic and I'm a TCM major Oh cool so yeah
that also shows the development of TCM in China is now like yesterday we talked about standardization of the practice and yes it is being standardized it can be taught in university and has been taught in university for many years in China now and I also like to stay here in China a little bit and asking
you guys then what about all these I suppose hip Chinese Millennials and Gen Z and apparently some of them are saying that this foot therapy thing as well as other TCM wellness practices are like the ultimate retreat for them in this busy work life and does that resonate with you do you see why it resonates
with them in 2022 May 20 survey data showed that consumers aged 20 to 35 accounted for 75 percent of the pedicure industry that means young people and I mean the majority of people going to these shops for these types of services are young people students or perhaps people who are working as well yay
and I'm sorry I'm just so so happy to hear that but in the meantime I think nowadays for a lot of young people it's not just about getting the relaxation from this experience it's also about socializing with your friend by by taking your friends there it's like I am NOT just soaking my feet on my own
we can chat well well I suck mine and you soak yours you have like a group like a chat group I do having grown toenails I don't there are people who do so here's one example so you born after 1995 she's doing like company team building experiences events such as going to the foot baths so yeah hmm and as
the popularity of foot therapy and TCM wellness grows it's a reminder that while modern life pushes us forward the wisdom of the past can still ground us and the rise of foot therapy shows that even in a go -go world young people are finding moments to pause and recover if the foot to carry the weight
of our lives perhaps it's time to give them and ourselves the care they deserve coming up let's have a moment of heart to heart you ask we answer roundtable heart to heart our listener Olivia has a voice memo for roundtable today hi guys I am Olivia from Guangdong province I have been listening to roundtable
for almost three years since I went to university I major in biological sciences in Tianjin normal University and I joined a laboratory of one of the professor when I was a sophomore firstly everything went well and I thought I could learn a lot from the experience but till one thing happened we found
a team to participate in a competition I did a lot of research and finally finished a summary and I sent it to my senior and he said summary is not like that but when I ask him how could I improve the content he said oh never mind I will do it by myself I asked him when should we start operating the experiment
and he said I have done before you can use the data directly I really want to operate by myself but he insisted that no you don't need to which really made me confused so I learned nothing and that's feel like I just waste my precious one year time in such a laboratory I was so disappointed so in my
new semester I decide to quit however it is my third year now it seems that I will not have the chance so just anxious and frustrated can you guys give me any suggestions thank you very much well thank you Olivia for sending in this voice memo and I totally get how disheartening it can feel when you're
working hard but feel that you somehow get pushed aside or you don't get the results that you're hoping for so guys what do you have to say to Olivia well first of all I just simply want to congratulate you Olivia in making it this far your third year college student on biological sciences and you've
spent your time in the labs and working with these colleagues and peers and seniors so that's why I would disagree with you on the point that you said you learn nothing because the fact that you were in this team you were learning from these people you were collaborating as a member yeah as a member
of that team has by itself its value for you to learn how working in the lab with colleagues are like and also what kind of projects you are more interested in you said you're very keen to do scientific projects so yeah this would be a very good start for you to learn about how such experiences should be
like and in the meantime you've accumulated experience and know that there is this say job allocations under such structures of within a lab so maybe next time you can probably consult your seniors or professors before you guys started working and just make sure which part of the job is yours and which part
is not can I think help you to feel more balanced to play a role in such an environment and from from someone who hasn't really been working as much as you do in a lab I actually consulted my boyfriend who shares the same experience of working in a lab and according to him scientists like you who is learning
to become one in the future or perhaps already a scientist and right now scientists should always be ready to be questioned or to be disagreed so if you cannot say prove yourself to your peers or to your seniors at least you can try to make sure that the outcomes you are providing is correct and convince
yourself you're doing a great job and you're just a very young student at this point I believe you have bigger projects and better experiences to come to you in the future as well so yeah congratulations you're doing great well said good advice there too pardon me Olivia I would take what Yushan said
and take it a step further you didn't waste your time because you got that valuable experience of being in a lab working with a team but you also learned a valuable lesson in work in that your co -workers that senior of yours in that context was your co -worker and your co -workers may not always have your
best interest in mind you wanted to do the experiment you wanted to figure out how to do the summary the appropriate way he didn't help you he just said whatever forget about it so you lost your opportunity so I think the lesson that you can take away here is is that in the future if you encounter a person like
that who says don't worry about it no no no forget about it you can say no I'm going to do this there's an experience here for me a lesson for me to learn and if that person isn't going to allow you go around and find someone who will allow you perhaps your professor there could have helped you out
because you gave him the power to make you quit that program because you quit it she quit Olivia quit so you gave him that power so I think the valuable lesson here is in the future you will encounter people like this again there's no question about it but next time you'll know what to do oh that's
great advice can I also please quickly jump in I also see this as it's about learning how to navigate the workplace where things aren't always fair and sometimes rules aren't written down but the key is how you respond to it and the big question here I can only speak for my Chinese experience is when should you
comply and when should you challenge the status quo when do you speak up when enough is enough because in this country no I don't necessarily think this is a country thing or a cultural thing this is just a workplace thing because we're often somehow raised indoctrinated that we should listen to seniors
yeah and and also here in China I think sometimes the unspoken understanding here is that okay I will support I will give the sometimes you're kind of willingly giving away the recognition in compensation you stay in the team you get a future opportunity and then therefore if I just bite the bullet
now I get the future compensation and that's why a lot of this stay silent but actually I think with younger people the newer generation and I've seen this with my millennial generation as well sometimes you know that well actually I could be speak up and I could put my foot down and stump it yeah and then
Olivia you can do that yeah and next time you know when to do that just ask yourself how important is it for me to stand up for myself in this particular moment choose your battles choose your battles wisely we don't want to hurt your career no but just yeah that is always an option for you of course
yes and thank you Olivia and all of our listeners who've sent in emails as well as voice memos and if you like what you hear you know be part of them just like Olivia you know send us a voice memo to roundtable podcast at qq .com and we will see you next time
