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Hi everyone, it's Blaine Alexander and today we are talking Dateline.
I am so happy to be joined by the one, the only Josh Mankiewicz.
Hi Josh. Hi. Hello.
How you doing? I am great.
So we're talking about your episode, the Widow of Woodland Hills.
If you haven't seen it, it's the episode right below this one on your Dateline podcast feed.
Go there, listen to it, or stream it on Peacock, of course, and then come right back here.
Quick recap. When Hollywood hairstylist Fabio Simintelli was stabbed in his own backyard, investigators wondered if it was a burglary gone wrong.
What they uncovered instead was an affair that turned deadly.
For this Talking Dateline, we've got an extra clip from Josh's interview with Fabio's sister and more about how the murderer has torn this family apart.
Okay, let's talk Dateline.
Let's talk Dateline.
You know, I think that this story is kind of what talking Dateline is made for because as we sit here recording it's 3 .36 p .m. Eastern Time on a Friday.
We just got the verdict two, three hours ago?
Something like that, yeah.
This was kind of a breaking news bit for us.
And it's great when that kind of thing can happen, that when we can go on the air at nine o 'clock on a Friday night and say, this happened today, that doesn't always happen that way.
A lot of times we do stories that, you know, were adjudicated more than a couple of years before we went on the air.
But when we're covering a trial right down to the minute, it's great to be able to say, this is the latest news on this, the actual verdict.
And I think it's a testament to just the dexterity of our producing team, of everyone who puts these shows on the air because, I mean, yes, to scramble and get that together and fill the holes that need to be filled, yeah, it takes a team, it takes an effort.
No, no, our, I mean, Chet Najoshi, Jessica deVera, Michelle Madigan, the producers who worked on this, Allison Orr, the senior producer.
Like these are the people whose names you don't know at Dateline, the people you don't see on TV are the big stars here.
And as a result of the incredible organization of this team, we were completely ready.
Well, I love it. It's amazing to see.
It's amazing to watch it, and you know, at least from the podcast side, be part of it for today.
So let's jump into this episode, Josh.
I think the first thing that if you watch Dateline, you work on Dateline, you always know, okay, they're going to look at the partner first, right?
This one, you had me fooled for a minute because I'm listening to them talk about the marriage and the things she posted.
And I'm like, no, this marriage is solid.
So I was actually surprised when I heard about the affair.
I actually did not see that coming.
No, I mean, I think nobody did.
You know, I have friends who live in, lived in that part of Woodland Hills and they knew the Semantilli family not very well, but they knew them.
Both my friends described life over there as extremely happy.
It was a house that seemed to be full of love, not full of anger, not full of distrust, which Which is why nobody, certainly nobody at first thought that Monica could have had anything to do with this, because she seemed happy, he seemed happy.
Nobody detected this.
So I mean one of the big themes of this of course, we hear about this a lot in Dateline, but betrayal.
And I really think that that's a, it seems like that was certainly a running theme of this story.
But when you talk about the betrayal of, even if Monica was saying, you know, oh, he worked lot or he was never home.
It didn't seem like Fabio knew that that was an issue with them.
I want to talk about Fabio though, because we really get a sense, and this is something we try and do in all of our Dateline episodes, but we really get a sense of who this guy was.
I mean, he seemed like someone who loved his life.
I was really struck by the fact that he had just sent this email about this epic 50th birthday trip that he was going to have. And then what was it the next day?
He was killed. I mean, you know, I mean, it's a tragedy, I mean this guy never made it to 50.
And he, you know, yeah, he got his start cutting hair in the basement.
His sister was showing him how, you know, and the next thing you know he's this big hairdresser and the next thing you know after that he's got this huge job with Wella and he's moving to Los Angeles.
And that is the kind of life people dream of and he was living it.
He just didn't live it long enough.
This seems like a good time to juxtapose Fabio with one Robert Baker, who was Ronecka's lover.
I mean, you just ran down the man's CV in his life.
And, I mean, he really was just an impressive kind of larger -than -life figure.
And then you have this man who is a former porn star.
He's a convicted sex offender.
He wears a pleather jacket that everybody liked to talk about.
And one can't help but wonder like, how do you go from married to this guy to a very deep, steamy affair with that guy.
We don't know how it started.
There's so much yardage between I met this guy at the gym and I'm going to fool around with him because I'm bored and my husband isn't around, to I'm in love with that guy, I'm planning a life with him and I'm going to have him stab my husband.
I mean, it's incomprehensible.
And here's one more thing that's incomprehensible.
This is, in some ways, a familiar story on Dateline.
Someone has an affair and the person they're having the affair with decides, I want them for myself, so I'm gonna get rid of the partner.
That certainly has happened before on Dateline.
Here's the part that hasn't happened before or at least hasn't happened in the stories that I've done, is he takes the fall.
This guy knows how the criminal justice system operates, he's been in it before.
She doesn't. But he goes in, and says, I did it, and she didn't have anything to do with it.
She didn't even know what was being done.
That, to me, is very unusual.
Why he did that, I don't know.
I would've loved to have asked him, I'm like, what's going on there, is that love?
I mean, what is that?
And he even said on the stand, they said, you still love her, right?
He said, yes. And they said, do you hope that you'll still be together?
And he even admitted, no, that's never gonna happen.
That's never gonna happen, right?
I knew that it's not like they were gonna go towards some sort of far off happy ending here.
No, he pled to the top count.
That's it, he's going away.
Regardless of what happens to her.
Yeah, I wanna talk about the affair, but I also wanna talk about how it came to light.
The SIS, the Special Investigation Section.
Did you know about this branch of LAPD?
Yeah, it's not spoken of that often, but they are an absolutely an elite unit.
that they're part of the robbery homicide division.
They've been around for a while and their specialty is surveilling robbery crews, people who they think are gonna knock over a bank or are gonna go into somebody's house for a home invasion.
And they think they know who it is so they're following them and then they need to be ready to move and go to tactical right away if they see that the crime is going down.
And, you know, sometimes, you know, that ends up in an arrest right there.
So this was an unremarkable case for SIS because Monica and Baker were not in the process of committing any additional crimes.
And they were also completely oblivious to the fact that they were being followed. The guy that we interviewed, Rob Burks, an old friend of mine.
And I've known him for a while.
And very recently he said to me, you know, what are you working on?
And I said, oh, it's the, you know, the Simantilli case out in the valley.
He's like, oh, yeah, we followed her.
I'm like, what? I said, you didn't tell me that.
And he's like, I didn't know you were on it.
So then very sort of late in the game, I asked him if he would talk about SIS's role in, you know, following them and sort of giving the primary investigators sort of the, you know, putting the pieces together so that they could understand Monica and Baker's relationship.
I mean, that definitely filled in a lot of blanks for investigators on this.
I thought that it was one of the more interesting parts of the story just kind of seeing how they do their job.
Yeah. Well, you know, it's one of those assignments that people get within the LAPD and then they never want to leave. It's very kind of high tension and you have access to all this technology that other people don't have access to.
I mean you can do, you know, you can follow people with, you know, drones and trackers and helicopters and all kinds of stuff.
You know, another thing that we saw in this episode was a lot of just different audio, but the undercover audio when Monica was being held with the cell mate, quote unquote, who was actually an undercover officer.
What an assignment that is.
That's the inside law enforcement that's known as Perkins, that's from a Supreme Court decision.
Perkins versus Illinois about statements that are made to law enforcement.
For example, if you're charged with a crime and you say, I want an attorney and I'm not talking to the police.
And then I'm a cop and they put a jail uniform on me and shove me in there and and say to you, hey, you know, I just committed murder.
Blaine, what did you do?
And you start talking.
That frequently will get thrown out because I am the police trying to interrogate you, even though you have said, I'm not talking to the police, which is your right under the Constitution.
So Perkins, the thing they did with Monica in this case, is a way around that.
And there are very specific rules for what you can and can't say to the person.
So, you know, they ran a Perkins operation and it definitely produced some things, although it did not produce the admission that prosecutors were hoping for, which is Monica admitting, yeah, this was my plan.
The only thing that came out of that was she admitted the affair and she gave some sense of how into Baker she was.
To me, the smoking gun piece of audio in this it's when Baker and Monica are in the patrol car, and they've just been pulled over and arrested when they were out driving in Monica's nice Mustang.
And they put them both in the back a police car.
And a lot of police cars, a lot of black and whites are, I think, wired for sound and video, but they did get Monica whispering to Baker, which you saw in our episode and she says, somebody must've talked, okay?
Innocent people do not say somebody must have talked.
Innocent people say, what are we doing here?
Why would they think we would have anything to do with this?
This is insane, right?
Somebody must have talked It's about what?
That's the, yeah, that to me, that's the smoking gun here.
Absolutely, it is, and who did they tell?
When we get back, Fabio and Monica's daughters chose to stand behind their mother even after she was accused of killing their father.
We've got a clip of what Fabio's sister has to say about that decision.
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You know, we learned a lot about Fabio from his son, Luigi, and obviously that's his son from a previous marriage.
I think that's important to point out because you kind of certainly see the different position that Luigi had versus you know, their two daughters who shared with Monica.
His relationship with Monica began as an affair.
Fabio was married at the time, right?
So she having an affair with a married guy, which was him, right?
There are people who will say, neither one of those people should trust each other because they're willing to have an affair.
And if they did it before, they will do it with you.
And I don't think that is necessarily true because sometimes people meet the right person and they did seem extremely happy together.
But yes, they began as an affair and that's what ended the relationship with Luigi's mom.
I think it's also worth pointing out.
Fabio obviously chose divorce to kind of begin a new life with Monica, and some could say like she had the blueprint right there, right?
And in front of her, I thought that it was interesting to dive into why she didn't choose divorce.
You and I have had this conversation plenty of times on Talking Dateline that yeah, it may suck, you may be embarrassed, you may get shunned by your family, but someone doesn't have to die, you don't have to spend the rest of your life in prison, right?
How does that become the top choice?
Yeah, I mean, you'll be divorced like so many other people are in this country.
And, you know, I mean, there should be no stigma about it.
If relationships are not working, murder it is the most astonishingly foolish, selfish, mistaken way to get out of a marriage.
There is no worse way.
I felt terribly for their two daughters in all of this.
They stood by their mom, maintained that she was innocent of this whole thing.
One testified for her.
I know that you asked Fabio's sister, Morella, what she thought about the kids supporting their mom.
We have a clip of that.
It was devastating.
This has cut you off from your nieces.
I know. You know, it - I just look forward to the day that we could probably reconcile or be together again, you know.
It's not unusual for children to take the side of the surviving parent because nobody wants to hear or say to themselves, you know, Dad killed Mom or Mom killed Dad.
Yeah, but she had an affair.
She brought this into the house, and I just feel like the sooner they face reality, the more complete they would be.
That's a good example of something that we see all the time on Dateline, which is that, you know, kids frequently want to believe that the parent who lived and who is charged did not do it.
And, believe me, I get it.
my heart just goes out to them, especially the daughter who found her father stabbed to death on the patio and the jury has decided Monica was responsible and, you know, and the prosecutor's telling.
She essentially orchestrated for her daughter to find her father bleeding out and stabbed to death.
Because she wanted an alibi.
It's a terrible, I mean, for a mother to do that to a child is something that's just fully beyond me.
This we have talked about, which is you think you're gonna take away the parent of your kids, and they're just gonna be fine?
Like, they'll be okay, because you're happy?
It's nuts. It's just insane.
I mean, it's a terrible thing to put your kids through.
And, you know, in that way, in that sense, Monica and Robert Baker have something else in common, which is they were both willing to expose someone they loved to enmesh them in this plot.
Monica getting her daughter to find Fabio's body and Baker getting his lifelong friend, Chris Austin, no criminal record, somebody who looked at him like an uncle and who trusted him and who clearly did not want to be involved in this murder plot at the beginning and getting him to do it, making him a murderer, now he's wrecked his life and his It is an astonishing display of selfishness and willingness to hurt people close to them for their own means.
It's a terrible thing.
The level of manipulation, yes, is insane.
Let's talk about Chris Austin.
I can't remember being as glued to the screen for a portion of a dateline as I was when he was on the stand and describing what happened that day.
I'm always stunned by just how almost easily someone can agree to be a henchman, if you will, or a sidekick in a murder.
Right, he had no stake in this.
To do that and to be OK with playing a part in ending a life is shocking to me.
I completely agree because it's pretty obvious he tried to sort of get out of doing it a couple of times, but when, you know, when the chips were down, Baker kind of just, you said, we're doing this.
And he lacked the strength at that moment to say you may be doing it, but I'm not.
Mm hmm. He just didn't have the courage to act on it.
Yeah, he just didn't have it.
The trial itself was full of a lot of kind of dramatic moments.
This trial was long, two and a half months.
Yeah. Why was it so long?
This was very long.
A lot of people and, and a lot of story to tell.
You know, one of the things about this is that you have the two murderers on the stand, each telling different stories.
Baker saying, I loved her then I love her now, and I did the murder myself.
Austin comes on and he very sorrowfully and I thought clearly, honestly told the story of not just what happened but about how wrenching it was for him to have gone through that.
The problem was He couldn't testify firsthand to any of Monica's involvement.
All of his connection with Monica was through what Baker said about what Monica wanted and what Baker wanted.
And so that made these two completely divergent accounts of what happened in that backyard so important and the jury had to sort it out.
Her reaction to the verdict, she was emotional.
And she did seem stunned by it, I would say.
And Fabio's family seemed relieved to the extent that a guilty verdict can be any kind of relief because as we said in the story, it doesn't turn the clock back.
Yeah, yeah. Up next, we're taking your questions from social media.
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All right, we are back with the one and only Josh Mankiewicz to talk about our social questions, comments, thoughts from your episode.
Yes. We have some good ones.
And there were a few.
There were a few. So I think something that stood out to a lot of our viewers was the nickname Ravioli.
That was Fabio's childhood nickname.
We asked our viewers on Friday night what their nicknames were growing up.
So, Marie Wilson writes, Feetsie was her nickname because I kept growing so quickly out of my PJs.
Cute. J .C. Delaney wrote, beans.
I don't know why. Beans, just beans.
Did you have a nickname growing up, Josh?
Oh, you know, I mean, the usual dweeb, loser, President Truman, that was a popular one.
President Truman? Well, he was president when I was growing up.
No, I do not remember nicknames, but everybody in my family's known as Mank, we all are, like our whole lives.
Like, my dad was, my grandfather was, my brother is.
You know, so. Did that get confusing, like at family gatherings if someone just yelled out Mank and...
That's why we never have family gatherings.
Yeah, maybe that's why.
I think mine, I don't know, Blaine?
It's not a, it doesn't lend itself to you know, what, when I was running tracking cross -country in high school, we put nicknames on the back of our shirts and mine was legs with two G's because I'm very tall and I'm all legs.
So that was, you know.
That's good. I take it.
It was earned, right?
Beats President Truman.
I'll tell you that.
Oh, yeah. We have an audio question about the daughters from Laurie Keeble Bailey.
Let's listen. Did Monica's daughter still support her up until the end of her guilty verdict?
even with all the evidence against her?" The answer, Laurie, and by the way, this continues our tradition of only people with three names being allowed to ask audio questions.
The answer, Laurie Keeble Bailey, is as far as I know, they believed her right up until the end and they believe her today.
Whether that changes over time, I don't know.
But as we said, nobody wants to believe Mom killed Dad.
Well, we're going to our next question, continues the trend of three named audio questions.
This comes from Jessica McCourt -Hughes, who has a question on how we report our cases.
Hey, Josh, how hard is it to keep an open mind when reporting on a case where the facts so clearly point to guilt at a suspect?
Jessica, thank you.
First of all, for nearly every reporter I know, certainly Blaine included, it's not difficult to step back and look at any story objectively, because there's usually something on both sides that makes you think this could be true, even if there's a mountain of evidence.
There's some on the other side that points towards innocence.
For example, there is no piece of audio anywhere in which Monica says, thanks for going along with my plan, or I'm I'm glad we did this or whatever.
So no, it is not hard to keep an open mind.
Here's an important question, one more audio question, let's listen.
Hey Josh, Julie from Raleigh, North Carolina.
Great episode on Friday, and I'm sure you're getting a lot of great questions.
But I think the important one is about your pocket squares.
Are those selected based on your mood or maybe the vibes of the case that you're working, possibly location?
inquiring minds want to know.
Thanks, Josh. Julie.
First of all, I need to know what your other two names are.
But well, good question, as we say in television when we don't quite know how to respond.
I have a lot of pocket squares.
I've been wearing them for about 40 years.
I started in the early 80s.
And they are kind of based on my mood at the moment, I should have some line, say that it's like, some kind of code as to like where I am in the country at the time or you know.
It's not true, it's sort of, you know, what I think, you know, sometimes I find one, I think, like, I haven't worn that in a while and I wanna get that one on the air.
But a lot of times it has to do with sort of what shirt and tie I'm wearing because you don't wanna go, you wanna compliment those not be completely crazy.
Yeah, I wish I could say that there's rhyme or reason to my pocket squares, but there isn't.
If you had to give a number real quickly, how many pocket squares would you say you have?
250. Wow. Yeah, that's crazy.
We have a couple of questions about the sentences that everyone received.
Cindy Wilson Shepherd is asking, but what sentence did the two guys get for killing him?
Chris Austin got a deal.
He hasn't been sentenced yet.
His sentencing comes later in April, but he's looking at something around 16 years.
Robert Baker pleaded to the top count he's life without parole.
Host -He's going away.
Yeah, okay. And then, last question from K Star Matics, what's Monica's sentence?
Never heard what it was?
We don't know. David - It's, her sentencing is not until June, but she's looking at the same numbers as Robert Baker.
I mean, she was found guilty on everything.
She's also looking at life without the possibility of parole.
All right, a lot of great comments, a lot of great questions, a fantastic deviation on your pocket squares.
This was a good one, Josh, thank you.
Thank you. And that's it for Talking Dateline this week.
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So we've got some updates on some big cases that we've been following.
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So all of that is coming up on Dateline, True Crime weekly.
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Thanks so much for listening.
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