I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast.
I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time.
Taking time to be more fully present.
Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now.
12 years ago, Wayne Dyer, affectionately known as the father of motivation, was drawn to live in Maui, a beautiful, mysterious place known for its big, wide -open sunny skies and lots of ocean.
Well, it's Wayne Dyer's belief that everything in our lives happens for a reason.
So as the clouds rolled in, we just decided to roll with it, too.
It's perfect the way it is.
It's perfect. This is everything.
As you would say. Yes.
As you would say. Come have a seat.
I love it here. There's something about this.
Oh, I came to Maui and just...
How many years have you been here?
12 full time. Yeah, well, it has not been that long for me, but there's something, there's a reason why they call it paradise.
Oh, yeah. And it feels so trite to call it that sometimes, but it really is.
Not for me. Yeah. It is.
They always say, don't you get island fever?
And I say, I only get the fever when I have to leave.
I just, I'm going to the mainland, I get mainland fever.
I'm now a little sick because I have to leave tomorrow, and I get that, but I'm reading wishes fulfilled.
I'm trying to manifest something different for myself.
You can take care of that for you, really.
I'm trying to... Literally this morning, I woke up, and I was feeling, oh God, I only have one more day.
And then I said, you can choose another thought.
That's right. You can choose.
You can choose another day, too.
You can choose another day, too.
You can do that, too.
I wanted to say, do you remember the first time you were on the show?
I remember the first time I met you, absolutely.
It was in Baltimore.
Wow. And with Richard Shearer...
That was even before the show.
But one thing I always remember about you, because I did the show with you maybe four times up there.
Yes, yes, yes. And you used to always touch my leg when I would get me to stop talking.
Great show. I had a lot of fun up there doing this.
You've been doing this a long time.
For a long time, you've been trying to raise the level of consciousness for people so that they can literally live more enhanced lives.
Do you feel like one of the fathers of this movement?
I have eight children, Oprah.
I just don't need to be the father of anything else.
I can hardly handle that.
The truth of it is, I still feel like a little boy inside.
I'm now being called an elder, which I just...
I don't know. I can't...
I still think of myself as a little child.
I go through life like that, just happy and fun and an acting silly and playing with kids.
For me, I have just had so much growth within myself and so much realization now, especially right now.
There's almost like an urgency.
I'm 71 now, and I feel an urgency.
I have some very, very important things I think to teach and to learn.
How did you grow up?
What was your life?
Were you raised traditional Christian?
How were you raised?
I was raised in a series of foster homes in orphanage until I was 10.
My father walked out on my mother.
She had three little boys by the time she was like 22 years old, and I was the youngest.
We were put into foster homes and so on until I was 10.
I was in different kinds of homes all the time.
They were always Christian homes, but some of them were Catholic and some of them were Baptists and some of them were Methodist.
I didn't really pay too much attention to the religious part of it, though.
Even in my teaching, it hasn't been focused on religion.
It's much more focused on consciousness and love and kindness.
What was the awakening moment for you that you realized that there was more to, quote, religion, more to life than what appeared to be?
Probably the most important moment of my life occurred when I was 34 years old, just a few years before I met you.
I went to my father's grave.
I was sent there by a series of just mystical kinds of things that just could never have happened.
You could never intellectually explain how I got to my father's grave, because this was a man I grew up hating.
I mean, bitterly hating.
My two brothers didn't care, but I was angry at him all the time and I would have bad dreams about him.
I'd wake up punching him and I'd be in a cold sweat and so on.
I ended up at his grave in 1974.
The story is too long to tell.
I've written about it in many of my books and told the story.
I stood at my father's grave August the 27th, 1974, just before I wrote Euronia Sounds.
My life was out of control at that time.
I was overweight. I was in a bad relationship.
I was heading for death really.
I was eating terribly.
My writing wasn't going well.
Nothing much was working.
I stood at my father's grave.
I went to my father's grave to do something on his grave that I wouldn't even want to talk about here.
Just as I was leaving the grave site, I was called back almost like mystically.
I just said, from this moment on, I send your love, I forgive you.
Who am I to judge you and tell you what your life should have been?
But you went there to do the opposite.
I went there because I just wanted to have closure.
I really always just wanted to meet this man.
I didn't even know he'd been dead.
He'd been dead 10 years before I even found out that he had been dead.
That was a major turning point in my life.
When you could feel the love.
Yeah. Actually forgive.
Yeah. There's that wonderful line that Mark Twain says that forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
It's this beautiful idea of being able to send love regardless of what comes here.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
You know about that.
That's beautiful. You've had to do some of that yourself, I know.
Yes. If you live long enough, you do.
Yeah. There's this old idea that if you pursue revenge, you better dig two graves because it'll kill you.
It'll kill you. It'll kill you.
Holding anger for someone else is like taking your own poison.
I often feel, Oprah, that maybe he incarnated into this life just to teach his youngest son who he never met and he walked away from how to forgive.
Because of that, I've been able to affect the lives of millions and millions of people all over the planet and all different languages.
For me, after I walked away from that gravesite in August of 1974, I was teaching at St.
John's University, I was a professor up there.
What were you teaching?
I was teaching counseling psychology to graduate students.
I flew down to Fort Lauderdale, Florida, rented an apartment in the Spin Drift Motel, and I wrote Uronia Zones in 14 days.
Wow. Cover to cover without any notes, without any struggle.
I had been struggling with my writing, I had been writing textbooks.
Today that book is like 60 million copies, 47 languages all over the world.
Everything in my life turned around when I got the rage, the hatred, the anger out of my heart.
Today, I write about and live something called divine love, a kind of love that never varies, a love that never changes, a love that you have for everything, for this mountain, for these trucks, for these people, for these lights, for these clouds.
It's like that kind of love, that's the love I'm working on and living every day.
Well, when you first came on the Oprah Winfrey Show, one of the things you said was that we all have the power of God literally inside of us, and you've taken that a step further in wishes fulfilled.
Right. And I loved, I think it was page 31 where you talked about the spark of God.
You say there's a spark in each of us.
And you speak in this book really about taking that spark and literally expanding that spark so that it becomes as large or as you want it to.
Yeah. Peter Doonof, this great teacher from Bulgaria, great spiritual master, great teacher, said that the creator places a spark of himself in every creation, every flower, every tree, every animal, and every single one of us.
And that spark is, for most people, is just kept as a spark.
So occasionally they will have a divine moment or they'll have an extension of love and so on.
Because everybody who's watching us right now or listening to us right now has had just a moment hopefully in your life where everything seemed to be really okay.
You ever had... Oh yes.
I'm sure you have those all the time.
I do, but then you lose it.
And then you lose it.
I mean, I've had them where you're pouring a cup of coffee, you're standing at the sink, or you're in your ...
you're just like, gosh, I am okay.
Everything is okay.
And I'm really not just happy, but content and at one with everything.
Everybody I think had a hint of that but can't hold on to it.
What you're saying and wish is fulfilled is that you can hold onto it.
Yeah, and you can expand that spark.
That spark... And that you can expand the spark.
The spark doesn't...
The spark is like a dot in your humanity.
Let's say I weigh 200 pounds.
It's a tenth of an ounce, this little spark.
It should grow to a chunk, to a piece, to what gets as big as a soccer ball inside of you so that what all you have to give away is love, that you become this...
until you get to the point...
I call that the higher self.
So you had me in the spark of God in you.
You had me when you were describing, if you will, for our audience now, the cup of the ocean in relation to the ocean.
Want to talk about that?
Well, it's just a good metaphor.
The ocean is God, let's say.
You take a cup and you reach it into the ocean, you say, what do I have here?
What I have here is a glass of God.
It's not as big. It's not as strong.
But if it's still altogether God, this whole thing is altogether God.
That's right. If you take a cup of ocean water from the ocean, it still has the ocean.
Now if I take it over here and I pour it over here and I watch it, what will happen is it will evaporate, change form, and where will it go?
Out into the air...
And then back to its source.
It will return to its source.
While it is separated from its source, that's the ego.
That's the part of us that believes that we are what we do, what we have, what other people We believe we're the vapor and we believe we're the cloud.
All of that, all of this stuff that what Muktananda called the false self.
The part of us that comes to believe that who you are is what you accumulate, what you accomplish, what your reputation is.
You're separate from everyone else.
And when you stay separate from God, you lose the power of God.
When you return to the source and become one with it, you gain all of the power of the source.
Let's say you're sitting here and you're 58 years old.
Yes. Okay. Let's say I am.
I know because you are.
Okay. So now... You make 71 look so good.
I don't mind 58. That's great.
How many bodies have you been in just since you incarnated in 1954?
You know, in Mississippi.
How many bodies? You were in one this big.
Okay. I did love that.
I love that in the book too.
I underlined that. That's one of the things I underlined.
And you were in a 10 year old body and...
Let's start with it.
You say you were in the baby body.
You were in the baby body.
Yes. And then you were in a little toddler body and then a little pre -teen body.
Yes. And then you were in a teenage body.
And you were in a 20 year old body.
You have pictures to prove it.
Yes. But where is...
I was in a 20 year old body.
Beautiful one. I had curly hair.
I was cute, okay. You're still cute, Wade.
Where is... There's not one cell left of that body that I was in when I was 20 years old.
And I really believe that that's who I was at the time.
I do find that fascinating.
Okay. I'm going to give you that.
Okay. I'm giving you that.
I did find that fascinating, yes.
So who I am is that which just keeps occupying new bodies.
You talk about it all the time.
It's your soul. Yes.
But the soul is the part of us that is infinite.
Yes. It's not finite.
If it was finite, it would end someplace and would begin someplace.
But it's not. You can't touch the soul.
You can't get a hold of it.
Actually, when I read that sentence in your new book, which is fulfilled, it's really early on.
It's like in one of the early pages about the bodies and the bodies and that.
You love the bodies.
I felt great. I just got a real sense of comfort from that because I actually sensed for the first time, oh, you're just going to move out of this body and move on to whatever that next plane is.
Is that how you see death?
I mean, I don't even think there is such a thing as death.
I think it's all an illusion.
You're just going to drop this body.
You just take off an old shoe.
Yeah. Yeah. So that who we are is the part of us that is infinite, the part of us that never stops.
And this isn't just my thoughts about it.
I can't identify with this body.
The body I'm in right now, I think is me.
I think it's real. But tomorrow, it'll be a different body and another.
So it's learning to focus on the inner instead of the outer.
All of our sense of what reality is is based upon our senses, what our eyes and ears tell us, what the internet tells us, we think that that's what's real.
But all of that, everything that materializes dematerializes.
So let's talk about the manifestation of your wishes, being able to create using that spark.
Because I'm going to just be the spark and grow the spark.
That's right. Just let me be there, Wayne.
I will. I love you no matter.
You're the spark or whatever.
Let me be just a spark.
How do I then begin to make that spark?
Because that was my prayer for myself for my 58th birthday as I sat here in Maui with my girlfriends.
And my prayer is to be in the space of God and have the space of God live and breathe through me as I live and breathe through it.
And to be in actually the thread that I get through all of wishes fulfilled is that everything that you say, the word alignment is used almost in every sentence.
Staying connected to your source.
Because it's about being in alignment with that.
Staying with the ocean.
Always staying with it.
Not taking the ego which is separate.
So your question is how do you go about doing it?
Well Einstein's question, when they would ask him about quantum physics, his response was always, it's all details.
I just want to learn to think like God thinks.
So how does God think?
It's like the great teacher Vivekananda who was Paramahansa Yogananda's great teacher who came over here early part of the 20th century and his devotees would ask him this question, how do I do this?
He said in the springtime, go out and observe the blossoms on the fruit trees.
He said the blossoms vanish of themselves as the fruit grows.
So too will the lower self, the false self, the ego, vanish as the divine grows within you.
So it's like all you have to do is begin to think like God thinks.
Now how does God think?
Let his mind be also in you.
That's what Jesus said.
Let his mind be also in you.
So it's like God doesn't want anything, doesn't take anything, doesn't demand anything.
It doesn't get petty.
I love to quote the poets.
I write poetry myself.
And Hafiz, the great Hafiz.
He said even after all this time, the sun never says to the earth, you owe me.
Just think what a love like that can do.
It lights up the whole world.
That's how you do it.
It just lights up the whole.
All you have to do is give and practice this divine love.
I just had a thought, your new love in your life.
Yes, we're sitting right over there.
Hi, must really love you because do you quote poetry all the time?
I write her poetry.
You write her poetry?
Oh, that's what every woman wants is a man who can write it and then talk it.
And more importantly, live it.
Yes, and she does as well.
We practice this thing.
I mentioned Peter Dunoff and you look like you're not quite sure of who that name is.
Albert Einstein once said that at the height of his popularity in the 40s and 50s, he said, the whole world bows before me.
He said, I bow before Peter Dunoff.
Peter Dunoff was someone who was teaching divine love in Bulgaria.
He was born in 1864, when I was four years old in 1944 and he said, there are three kinds of love.
He said, there's human love, there's spiritual love and there's divine love.
He said, human love varies and changes.
So you love somebody one day and that's the next and it's varying and so on.
Spiritual love never changes but it varies.
It'll vary in degree.
Divine love never changes, never varies.
It's all I have to give away.
It's just...and you do that not...and this is what Jesus was teaching us.
It's about loving your enemies and not hating and not...you know, even in the Dao, we did a whole interview years ago on the Dao and in the Dao it says that every victory in war should be celebrated by morning because it shows that we are still operating at these low levels of, you know, who we are is separate
from each other. In the second and third chapters of the book, you talk about higher self and being able to tap into that in a way that you ask...I love this...that whenever you're in any given situation you ask yourself, are you operating from your lower self, your ego, which is edging God out, or are you operating
from your higher self?
The lower self is always the self that says, what's in it for me?
I want more. It's the mantra, the internal mantra is more and more and more.
I'm not getting enough.
What can I have? The mantra of the higher self says, how may I serve?
How may I serve? It's really about...
How can I be used? That's my question.
It's really about...when we were on the way over here, I was telling Mira and three of my children who were also sitting over there that one of the reasons that you're one of the most admired people alive is because you have lived this divine love kind of approach.
I mean, your life is about giving.
This is what I aspire to.
Just being able to give.
I mean, starting up schools.
For me, it's like...and if you're not kind and loving to the cameraman and to the people who clean your toilets when you're staying in a hotel.
That's how you tell how people are.
That's how you tell.
Just like taking time to everyone.
It's love for everyone.
Guess what. Well, you can't guess.
I just came back from India.
I know you did with my friend Deepak Chopra.
Deepak. He called me just before we left.
Really? And I will tell you, I don't know why this happened to me in India and it didn't happen to me driving down Chicago Avenue, but everywhere I turned in India, I swear I saw myself.
I saw myself at the guy on an ox cart.
I saw myself at the woman on the side of the road.
You're asking how that happened?
This is what happened?
What was that? This is exactly what it happens to me because you begin to realize that all of us are connected.
At the highest place, we all came from the same source.
We all returned to the same source.
All of us are just nothing but individualized expressions of this oneness of God.
That's what we all are.
Once we get that - But have you ever had that experience before?
That was kind of weird.
I see myself not only in that.
This happened to me.
I just had this amazing experience with John of God and this healing and this leukemia.
Wayne Dyer is referring to the controversial Brazilian healer known as John of God.
Over the past four decades, John of God says he's treated millions of people with no medical training and little formal education.
John of God performs physical surgeries seemingly without anesthesia or sterilization.
John of God says he is a vessel rather than a healer and that entities, the spirits of deceased doctors, surgeons, and saints, work through him.
He and his followers claim the entities have cured people of cancer, helped the blind to see and the paralyzed to walk again.
Many of John of God's healings, however, do not involve any physical contact.
You were sick? I was diagnosed with leukemia.
You won't say you were sick?
I believed I was then.
I am perfect health.
Okay. I am well. I am perfect health.
So you were diagnosed with leukemia?
I was diagnosed with chronic lymphocytic leukemia.
And for 11 months, I believed it and I lived in fear.
Not fear like I'm going to die and poor me and all of that kind of thing.
Just sort of a subconscious feeling about, oh my God, how did this happen?
And I had this experience with John of God who's down in...you did a whole show.
With John of God who's a healer in Brazil who is a farmer who does this for no money and I'm going to go see for myself because everybody's...
You going to Abidjania?
Yes I am. So let's finish the story though.
So I had a friend from Bulgaria.
Her name is Reina Piskova.
She's a medical doctor in California, an eye surgeon.
And she flew down there.
She wanted me to go with her because she found out I had leukemia.
You had heard of John of God.
I had heard of John of God, but I didn't know that much about him.
And I was on the fence about it because there's so many people who...
Are charlatans? Yeah.
But anyway, she got down there and she called me and she said, take a picture of all dressed in white.
When you go down there, you're only dressed in white.
Everything is in white.
And take a picture from the front, from the back, from the side, from the side and send it down.
We did that. She emailed them down there.
She took the pictures to John of God.
She said, would you do surgery?
He said to her, I can't because he's not taking these herbs, these special herbs that you take.
So she FedExed. I mean, God bless her.
I mean, she went to a FedEx office down in Brazil near Brasilia.
Got these things FedExed up to me on a Tuesday.
The herbs. I took the herbs and the special water and did all of the things that I was supposed to do.
And we took the pictures again.
And she said, your surgery will be...
It was on my mother's 95th birthday.
So that's why I remember it.
So much. April 21st.
And so I had the surgery.
I didn't feel anything.
I went to bed. I drank the water.
I did everything that I was supposed to do.
I woke up the next morning and she called me from Brazil.
What do you mean you had the surgery?
I don't know, Oprah.
I just had the surgery.
What do you mean you had the surgery?
He's in Brazil and you were...
Were you here in Maui?
I was in Maui. Yeah.
Different time zones.
I know. I was as skeptical as anybody could be about this.
Stay with me people because this is as woo woo as I know how this sounds.
It sounds like woo woo.
It sounds crazy. So anyway, Reina Piskova calls me from down in Abidjania.
She had the surgery.
I had the surgery. Now the surgery...
This is a guy who can do surgery to a thousand people in a room at the same time.
He is not somebody who does the surgery.
He doesn't remember any of it that he does.
You can watch him do it.
He gets into this thing and he picks up these instruments.
You can actually see pictures of the entities that enter his body as he does the surgery.
I know. When you're going down there, you'll see.
I'm going down to...
You did a whole show on it.
I did, but every time I've heard about him or talked about him or even written about him in the magazine, it has been through somebody else's eyes.
I keep hearing these stories and hearing these stories.
I had a direct experience.
I went to bed. I didn't feel anything.
Nothing changed. This is after you've taken the herbs.
I took the herbs. She said you'll wake up at seven o 'clock.
She told me what time the surgery was at seven o 'clock.
She said you'll get up at eight o 'clock and then you'll drink some of the blessed water and you'll go right back to bed for 24 hours.
Let's get to the surgery part.
The surgery is a remote surgery.
It was 12 ,000 miles from where I was.
I don't know what happened.
These are entities.
They don't have any form.
They're just the spirits that enter his body.
It's been going on for 40 years to 25 million people.
Okay, so tell me this.
Does he tell you a certain time to lay down, a certain way to lay down?
No. Just go to bed.
Wear white. Just wear...
Everything is white.
Drink the water. Take the herbs and don't have sex and don't eat spicy food and don't eat pork.
Basically, that's it.
So I did everything.
I went to bed. I got up.
Were you skeptical as I am right now?
Because this sounds crazy.
I know. I know it was.
But that's because we have been conditioned to believe that...
This is my limited self -talking.
Here's a line from Jesus, with God, all things are possible.
Now what does that leave out?
That leaves out nothing.
Okay, that leaves out nothing.
So it doesn't leave out this either.
It leaves out nothing.
That's what all things mean.
I do believe that. If he meant some things are possible and some things aren't, he would have said that.
But he didn't. He said all things are possible.
But this does sound crazy, even to you, doesn't it?
Yeah, it did. It did.
But I had leukemia.
So when you have leukemia...
My white blood count was going up and I had cancer in my blood and I was...
Yes. So Reina called me and she said, go right back to bed.
I said, I can't go back to bed.
I just slept for eight hours.
She said, you've had surgery.
It's no different than having your gallbladder removed or something.
She said, you've got to go right back to bed.
How did you feel when you woke up?
I felt fine. I didn't feel any different, honestly.
And I said to my kids, I'm going for a walk.
You know, it's like I walk about an hour and a half every day.
I kind of brisk walk and all of this.
And then I got about 100 yards away and I collapsed.
I mean, I couldn't get up.
I was basically helpless.
And I had to almost crawl back into the apartment to get on the elevator.
I was out of breath.
I said to my daughter and my son, both of whom were there at the time that this happened, and they said...
I said, I've just got to go back to bed.
I said, I just feel so weak.
I don't know what has happened.
I have no idea. And I went back to bed until eight o 'clock the next morning.
24 hours. I slept. I got up twice to go to the bathroom and to have a little bit of a soup and I went back to bed.
Now, that's not the weird part.
Oh, that wasn't the weird part.
Well, do tell the weird part.
Well, the weird part is a week.
So a week went by and I was getting weaker and I kept thinking, are I not going to be able to exercise anymore?
Okay. I can't swim anymore.
I would look at the ocean.
Now, I swim every day, long distances.
I couldn't even imagine getting to the beach.
It looked so far away.
And I would need help with it.
I was almost like a cripple.
So they said, on the following Thursday, on the 28th, the sutures will be removed.
What's sutures? And I said, I've got news for you.
I don't have any sutures.
And she said, that's what it's called.
Now when you have leukemia, they don't have sutures.
It's in the blood. You know, it's like you do bone marrow things, but you know.
And they said you'll go back and this is where the most important thing that you will do.
You take the herbs until the week and you'll go to bed at 10 o 'clock at night on the 28th of April, a week later, seven days later.
And when you wake up at 7 o 'clock in the morning, you will have had the sutures removed.
And you'll be on your way to the healing.
And these are the kind of things that you have to make.
Now what are you thinking when you're hearing this?
Are you thinking what I'm thinking right now?
Kukamata. No, not kukamata.
Not kukamata. Because I'm a little older than you, Oprah.
I'm open to everything.
And I really believe that with all things that's possible.
The sutures part sounds a little...
I know, it did. It did to me too.
And there are no sutures.
But that's just what they call what happens when these entities re -enter your body and do whatever it is that they do.
So you're just going along with it and you say whatever.
I have leukemia. So if it works, it works.
I went to bed. I got up the next morning.
I walked out. My daughter looked at my eyes.
She said, what happened to your eye?
She said, your eye's been scraped.
Your right eye. There's all kinds of like goopy stuff in my right eye.
Like someone had actually gone in, which you'll see when you go down there.
That's what they do.
They do this kind of scraping of the eye.
And my son looked at me.
He said, what were you doing in the bedroom there?
He said, you don't have any pupils.
Were you doing drugs back there?
I said, no. I just got up.
I said, but I have never felt so loving in my life before.
And I looked at my daughter.
She said, you just look so beautiful.
I put my arms on her.
I said to my son, oh, my God.
I just love you so much.
Everything changed, Oprah.
He took whatever they did that night when they were in that room changing my life around, they took the fear out.
Everything that is fear cannot be love.
Everything that is love cannot be fear.
And my birthday, my 71st birthday was just a few days later.
I was in San Francisco.
And all I wanted to do is the most memorable birthday I've ever had.
I had a big wad of $50 bills that I went downstairs at the bank and got.
And all I did all day long was go to homeless people all over Union Square right there in downtown San Francisco and talk to people who were taking plastic bottles out of rubbish and so on and talking, telling them their name, putting my arm around them and putting $50 in their hands or $100 in their
hands. And I did it all day long until four o 'clock in the afternoon.
I gave away several thousand dollars and I walked back into my bedroom and I just cried.
I mean, I just I was sobbing.
What happened to you?
What was that? What do you how now?
They put divine love into me.
Somehow I was I just feel like I've been in this kind of training since I was a young boy to learn what it is, to really live divine love.
And it's every everything that has happened in my life.
Mira, this woman who came into my life shortly after that.
We just have had this most loving, divine, you know, amazing experiences as two people never ever felt like.
At 71? It's just it's just the most beautiful experience.
I've never had anything.
But not just there.
Everywhere I go, everyone that I see, it's like I put my arms around people now, I send people love, I call people who are in hospitals, I go visit them, I give I'm giving everything that I have away.
It's just it's just been such a dramatic experience.
Wayne Dyer's latest book, his 37th is called Wishes Fulfilled.
It's all about the art of manifestation, using your imagination to help make your future dream a present fact.
Wayne believes your greatest power resides in the way you use two simple words, I am.
Instead of saying things like, I am sad, I am sick or I am unlovable, Wayne suggests to focus on what you wish to be true by saying things like, I am happiness.
I am health, I am love.
It's a technique he believes has helped him immensely with his leukemia.
Tell me this, when did you know the leukemia was gone?
You know, I was still writing Wishes Fulfilled at that time.
And I began to listen to the reading that I was doing on the I Am discourses.
And what it said in there is always use the name I am as the name of God.
It's the name that God said to Moses.
I am that I am. And he said, and that shall be my name for all future generations.
So that's my name. So every time you use the name I am, you're really using the name of God.
So if you say, I am weak, you know, and in the book again of the Bible and the book of Joel it says, let the weak man say, I am strong.
So you have to call things that do not exist as if they did.
That's again, that's out of the book of Job.
So you have to get yourself to a place where you're willing to say, I am perfect health, I am well.
I now start all of my lectures with I am well, I am perfect health.
And I don't go back and check my white blood counts.
You say this on page 174.
I have not partaken of new blood tests and medical evaluations because I trust in what I experienced such a degree that I need no external validation to assure me that these mysterious mystical events took place.
I was there for the surgery and I was there for the suture removal.
I need say nothing more.
And so you now don't do the blood tests?
I don't do the blood tests.
The oncologist that I was working with agrees with me.
He said just go by how you feel.
Because what you don't want is to be indoctrinated by somebody else's idea of what your health is.
That's one of the most important things.
The wishes fulfilled foundations that this book is based upon are, place into your imagination.
Self -actualized people.
I learned from Abraham Maslow when I was a young doctoral student, you never put into your imagination anything that you do not want to materialize into your life.
So you don't put into your imagination something like I am poor, I am depressed.
Because when Moses was speaking to God, God didn't say my name is I hope things work out.
My name is maybe. He said I am that.
Meaning I am that and I am that and I am everything.
Mastering the art of manifestation.
How is that different from the law of attraction?
It's very, very different.
Tell me. The law of attraction, and I am not here to put down the law of attraction, I think that is the thing.
I think the law of attraction and the secret open people up to a new way of thinking.
Absolutely. It had its flaws because it allowed some people to think that all you had to do is think about a bicycle and there it would show up.
The key word that you use in here over and over and over again in every chapter is that in order to attract or manifest anything you have to be in alignment with your source.
With your source. With God.
It's about alignment.
You have to stay connected to the ocean.
That's right. Because you can't just sit around and wish for stuff.
So the basic thing that Neville taught me and a lot of this is from the teachings of Neville Goddard who died in the 1970's.
He basically said that all of us have within us this amazing capacity to manifest and attract anything that we want into our life.
So how we call it, what words that we use.
We have to be able to say in the secret they say you get what you want and what is missing.
What Neville said and what has come to me and what I got from the I Am Discourses and what I get from the New Testament which I read before I did it is that you say I will attract into my life what I am not what I want.
I am capable of attracting all things that the sources is capable of attracting.
So that's the difference.
It's like you get what you are rather than what you want.
So you want to become, you can't go around and ask these divine beings, angels whatever you want to call them.
Who are right here all the time.
Oh you can't ask them to help me out.
You have to become like they are.
When you become angelic, when you become a divine being yourself, when you are giving, when you are serving, when you are in that place they will come to you.
So that's what happened to you in India.
You then begin to see yourself in everything.
Because it is our goal to reflect the character of God.
That's what we are here to do is to emulate that.
That's what the Tao Te Ching teaches as well.
They call it your original nature.
Your original nature is reverence for all of life, gentleness, kindness and service towards others.
That's Lao Tzu 500 years before the birth of Christ saying that's our original nature.
Yes. Reverence for all of life, gentleness, kindness, service towards others, giving, offering, serving.
And when you get to that place where you no longer have any judgment within you towards any of God's children.
That means no condemnation, no criticism, no judgment towards anyone, even the Osama Bin Laden.
But how can we be that since we are here, we are living, we are on earth, we got problems, we got our issues.
We have stuff going on.
And if enough of us get this message over, if enough of us get in, that's just what my mission is.
It's just to teach people that you are love.
You are divine. Put that into your imagination.
I am well. I am happy.
I am content. I am fulfilled.
Even if your senses tell you that you're depressed.
One of your people that called me when we did a pre -interview on here said, well, if I'm feeling depressed, I'm supposed to fool myself and say I am feeling well, even if You can choose another thought.
That's what I've learned.
Exactly. And it's like you don't say I am depressed because if you say I am depressed, you connect with depression and the universal source, God, whatever you want to call it, will align in such a way to offer you whatever it is that you put.
Yeah. Here's some more depression.
I am unhappy. I am depressed.
So by placing into your imagination what you want and assuming the feeling of that wish is already fulfilled, you go through your life feeling that.
When enough of us do that, we will transform this planet.
I'm telling you it can be done.
We're doing it right now.
Us sitting here, right here together, it's all part of this perfection.
Does wishes fulfilled work for stuff, for things?
I want a new house.
I want a car. I want a boyfriend.
I want a husband. I want the love of my life.
I want to be happy.
Does it work for that?
Not if you say it that way.
Okay. Not if you say I want to be because saying I want to be, it means I already am not it.
What I'm asking you to say is to put into your imagination what it is that you intend to manifest and act as if it already were.
Already were. As it says in the Bible, you know, it's like call and he calls those things which do not exist as though they did.
As though they did.
That's what you have to do.
So don't allow anything in your imagination or your consciousness that you really don't want.
That's what self actualizing people, they never do that.
One of my favorite poets was William Blake, you know, you've heard this.
I'm sure. To see the world in a grain of sand and a heaven in a wildflower.
To hold eternity in your palm of your hand and infinity in an hour.
We are all led to believe a lie when we see with not through the eye, which was born in a night to perish in a night while the soul slept in beams of light.
The soul. That's who we are.
And the soul is infinite.
So all it wants to do is expand.
It doesn't want to be fenced in.
It can't stand it when somebody tries to control it or tell it what to do or how it should be.
What you're saying is that we have the ability, a little wind kicking up here.
It's perfect. It's all perfect.
I love it. You know why?
Because now we look like we have a wind machine and a fog machine.
It doesn't bother me at all.
I haven't even noticed it yet.
You say, page 73, most common misuse of imagination is stressing what you don't want for yourself.
This is the largest category of misusing.
Highly functioning self -actualized people simply never imagine what it is that they don't wish to have as their reality.
That's hard because so many people live in the I don't haves and I wish I had.
But as soon as you say it's hard, then...
I'm so unlucky things don't work out for me.
Then your subconscious mind says, oh, so you want hard things?
So this is difficult?
It's not hard. It's not hard to say, I am content.
I am kind. I am happy.
I am fulfilled. I am healthy.
I am wealthy. I am in a divine relationship.
And you just keep saying it.
And then you feel it and you go around feeling it.
You don't have to...
I understand you got a new iPad.
Yes. I love my iPad.
I just got one. My kids got a new one.
Are we supposed to love things?
No. Okay, but this iPad knows everything.
This iPad knows everything.
He can ask any question.
But the best thing about the iPad is there's a little feature called trash.
I don't know if you come to this yet.
No. Oh yeah, trash is great.
So that anybody that sends you something that you don't want to hear like leukemia cannot be healed.
It's incurable. You're going to die from this.
All of that. You just go trash.
And you can watch it.
It goes... Oh yeah, and the trash can.
And the little leap comes up.
And then you push it a little.
Gone. And then you get the leap.
And it's gone. We need one of these in life.
Every time somebody says you can't do this, it's impossible.
Our subconscious mind has been programmed since we were little boys and little girls.
Let me tell you. I was 18 years old.
I was in the United States Navy for four years.
I was a radioman. I learned Morse code.
When I was 18 years old I learned Morse code.
I can't get it out of my subconscious mind.
I mean if you want the alphabet, it's da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da that's the first five or six letters of the alphabet.
It's always there. And so it's like every one of us have got that it's da da da da da da.
You can't do this. It's impossible to do that.
You can't heal this.
It's like it's a...
John of God things are impossible.
Instead of just opening up our minds and saying all things are possible means all things are possible.
This guy didn't say it in a way that wasn't clear.
All things are possible.
You know when I first read that Jesus said greater things than I have done you can do.
I was thinking was he talking about me or was he talking to somebody else?
Was he just talking to that little group?
When you think about Jesus and his ability to understand the future and knowing what we couldn't see, what the average man couldn't see, knowing the greater possibilities that we would have with technology, with our iPads, our ability to...
When you think of him teaching having to go on foot, walking through Galilee and now what you have access through to technology.
When I finished reading Wishes Fulfilled I thought that in summary what you really were saying and this is my quest for myself and for my next chapter in life is to move closer to home, move closer to God, to live a more self -actualized life.
But what you really are saying in this book is get yourself right with God.
Are you not saying that?
I am. I am saying stay connected and recognize that when you're connected to the ocean you have all the power of the ocean.
It's like it's only when you separate yourself from the ocean that you wither away, change form and return to your source which is what all of us are doing.
We're going to change form and return to our source.
It's just a great metaphor.
So it's really understanding that the highest self, the highest place within you is this divinity that is not just a spark.
There's a great teacher in India, his name was Patanjali and goes way back 2300 years ago.
He said when you are steadfast, steadfast means you never slip.
When you're steadfast in your abstention of thoughts of harm directed towards yourself and others that all living creatures will cease to feel fear in your presence.
That's Christ consciousness.
That's Buddha awareness.
Say it again, when you are steadfast in your abstention of thoughts of harm directed towards yourself and others that all living creatures will cease to feel fear in your presence.
That's what Saint Francis was.
That's like the animals, the birds will land on you.
There are some people who walk into a room and everybody in the room just feels better.
You've been around people like that.
You've had people on your show that are like that.
When I was in India I was in the presence of a yogi who was teaching me yoga.
I've had other people teach me yoga and I always thought that's more about the instructor and I can't make that pose.
I walked into that space and I suddenly felt loved.
I went, there's something to this India stuff.
There's something to it.
There was a calming presence with this person.
My teachers have all come from that place.
Nisargadatta Maharaj who wrote, I am that, one of his great cover.
He's called the teacher of the I Am's.
I've been calling him my teacher.
I've never even met the man.
He died in the 1980s.
I was just like a devotee of his.
I was reading everything and involved with his teachings in India.
All he was teaching us is that you just have an I Am presence but you have to honor that.
You have to pay homage to it.
You have to be in a state of gratitude for it.
You've used many quotes here.
Do you have a favorite?
Yeah, my favorite quote is from Pierre Tellyard of Chardin, the great French priest.
Basically he said that we are not here as human beings having a spiritual experience.
It's the other way around, that we're all infinite spiritual beings having a temporary human experience and just find that place within you.
What is the soul? The soul is the birthless, deathless, changeless part of us, the part of us that looks out from behind our eyes and has no form.
Are we in the soul or is the soul in us?
The soul is infinite so there's no in or out of it.
It is everywhere. There's no place that it is not.
What is your definition of God?
God is the highest place within each and every one of us.
It's our divine self.
What do you think will happen when we die?
I don't think we die.
I think our bodies leave, but we can never die.
That which is never born can never die.
That which never changes can never die.
What do you know for sure?
I love you. For sure.
Thank you. Thank you, my love.
Thank you. Good to see you.
Thank you. It's a wishful film to be sitting with you.
You were about 24 years old, I think, 22 years when I first started.
I was 22. 22 years old.
That's a long time.
So beautiful, yeah.
That's a long time.
We used to have so much fun doing those things.
We still are. I know.
Hey there, podcast listeners.
I have exciting news.
We're launching a brand new podcast in addition to Super Soul Conversations.
It's called Oprah's Master Class.
The Master Class podcast allows you to hear the greatest life lessons from some of the most respected and renowned actors, musicians, public figures and athletes in their own words.
Listen as Jay -Z, Justin Timberlake, Ellen DeGeneres, Shaquille O 'Neal, Reba McIntyre, Dwayne Johnson, and Jane Fonda, just to name a few, share what they've learned about life and their own insights into their personal stories and challenges.
I believe that there's something to be learned from every experience and everyone can use their life as a class.
Oprah's Master Class podcast will be available July 19th on Apple Podcasts.
Subscribe now and listen free.
Go to applepodcast .com slash Oprah's Master Class.
I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast.
You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook.
If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe, rate, and review this podcast.
Join me next week for another Super Soul Conversation.
Thank you for listening.
