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I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast.
I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time.
Taking time to be more fully present.
Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now.
Well, my prayer in the past couple of years has been, you know that song, just a closer walk.
Walk, just a closer walk with thee.
Just a closer walk with thee.
And what I have learned and certainly know and want to share with all of you is that your unhappiness and discontent is in direct proportion to how close that walk is.
Oh, yeah, baby. Yes, it is.
Yes, it is. And if you can stay in the center of your God space, if you can allow God to be, to have everything God filtered in your life, to at least start with that in your day, to have yourself God -ordered and God -centered, everything flows.
That's when you're in the flow, and everything out of flow comes when you are not moving from that space.
And the thing that many people have to do, however, is they've got to get clear about their intimate relationship with God and their definition of God.
See, Rhonda had one definition, experience and understanding of God.
Rhonda, the old you.
Rhonda Harris, the old me.
That did not work for Iyanla and who I had become.
Last week, Iyanla and I talked about how she was born Rhonda Harris.
She changed her name when she was in her 20s to heal from her painful past, to start anew.
It would be one of the most significant mileposts on Iyanla's spiritual journey.
What was Rhonda's experience and definition?
That she was bad in God's sights, she was wrong in God's sights, and at any moment God was going to smite her and plucketh out her eye.
Not pluck, but plucketh out.
Plucketh out her eye because she was so wretched and that's what was hammered into me.
That's what was hammered into me.
And that was your belief?
That was my belief.
And everything in your life was ordered from that.
From that. That created your path.
And then Iyanla had an awakening, an understanding.
Was that a one time to become an Iyanla or a process?
The name was given to me by my godfather.
And it means great mother.
And I had never been mothered.
Which you are! I am now, but back then I was like, holy moly, that's deep.
but I, so I had to look up what does it mean to Mother?
Mother is teacher, and teaching is my purpose.
And I knew that I had to grow, build, develop an intimate relationship with God.
Had to do it. Couldn't be lazy about it anymore, and I mean this happened before everything else unfolded.
So I had to do my daily spiritual practice, and I had to get over my fear of God.
I was scared to death of God as I knew and understood it.
God's gonna punish you.
Punish me, get me, I'm wretched, I'm bad.
Instead of your actions and your choices, punish me.
That's right. That's what's happening.
You're punished by your choices.
In 1979, when I found the Course in Miracles and opened to the page that said, I am among the ministers of God, I said, really?
And kept looking and saw no one can seek the peace of God and not find it.
If you do not find it, it's because you do not want it.
I'm like, what? What is this?
Right. Yes. And then scared to death that I'm reading The Course in Miracles and not the Bible.
I am telling you the very first time I read The Course in Miracles, I have to tell you this.
I've never shared this before, but the very first time, and I can't remember when I was introduced it early, late 80s, early 90s.
I read it the first time.
I was so scared that I was going to be struck by lightning.
The next day, right?
The next day. Plucketh out my eye.
Plucketh out my eye.
I took the book out my house.
Because I didn't want God to come look at my wake and see it there.
I couldn't figure out how the God that was a jealous God would be accepting of any other ideas about who God could be.
You know what helped me?
What helped me so immensely in this path?
I first, I read a book by Eric Butterworth called Discover the Power Within You, and that book single -handedly changed the way I saw God.
It allowed me to have the Jesus of my past and to also make Jesus bigger than I ever imagined.
Well, that was easy.
Let me tell you a little bit.
Introducing the Christ consciousness.
Within. Yeah. The first time I saw, experienced what I knew to be God, it was feminine.
It was a woman in the mirror, standing behind me, said to me, your beauty is within.
Really? You know, it was so shocking.
what was that a voice in your head no I saw it and the second time I had the same experience with the same vision the same apparition whatever you want to call it was I was had slumped to the floor in my kitchen in the midst of postpartum depression at 21 years old where I had taken an overdose of everything
that I could put my hands on and I could feel the life leaking out of my I looked up and there it was again.
And she said to me, do you really want to die?
And I said, no I just don't want to hurt.
Next thing I woke up, I was in the psychiatric ward.
You know, cause when you attempt suicide, they put you in the nut house.
You know? And for me it was just a pause.
It was too much happening too fast.
Just had a baby, two other kids to raise, dog to walk, laundry to do, money to make.
I was overloaded. How did you figure out though and get the, not just the intellectual training, but the spiritual heart and heat to be able to do what you're now doing on Ayanlet Fix My Life?
How do you hear it?
Where do you get that from?
I hear it. I just hear it, you know.
But your degree is law.
Yeah? Yeah. But you know what?
I didn't go to law school to learn law.
I went to law school to train my mind.
My mind had not been trained.
Law school trained my mind.
Trained me how to think, how to analyze, how to see, how to get out of the negativity, how to build an argument.
Because in law school, they don't care what you believe.
You gotta lay that deposition out, you gotta align, and it taught me how to think.
And really, law school was, I realized I didn't come to learn man's law, I came to learn God's law.
In law school? Well, how'd you do?
Yeah. Yeah. $47 ,000.
Yeah. But where where did this where does the spiritual wisdom, the spiritual power come from?
How do you know how to do that?
I give myself away moment by moment moment by moment there's no intellectual definition for that depth of spiritual unfolding I just make myself available to God and in that moment when I sense see feel hear it coming I just give myself away and I'm just used as the vessel and and it's deep for me you
know because I'd never know what I'm gonna say you know and it's it's a very powerful state of surrender what is your current spiritual practice because I know you can't hold the space that you hold yeah without What is your?
What do you do? Well, I do.
I read the Bible almost every day.
I put the Bible to my head and I open it.
And wherever I open it, that's where I'm reading.
And I ask for guidance.
The other thing I do is music.
Music ministers to me.
I don't go anywhere without my music.
Every day. I sent you a song.
Yes! I sent you a song.
Music ministers to me.
And some I play over and over.
Great is thy mercy towards me.
Your loving kindness.
You know Donnie McClurkin.
Yolanda Adams, just a prayer.
Oh my goodness, great is thy mercy Donit.
Okay, could you just spit?
I could just spit. Download that thing right now.
I was listening to that in Maui and I think it brought me to my knees.
Take you down. That's what you want.
Take you down. Took me down.
Take me down, Lord, take me down.
I got to go down. One knee, two knee, face in the dirt.
Stop me cold. Stop me cold.
It has to, and that one that I sent you.
Yes. Woo, but listen.
It's not just an M and M.
Yeah. You only get one shot.
Do not miss your chance to blow.
Opportunity comes once in a lifetime.
Hello. M and M. M and M.
India Irie, one shot to the heart without breaking your skin.
No one has the power to hurt you like your kin.
Come on now. Somebody talk to me.
Come on, now. Sunday morning.
Okay? Yes. So, music ministers to me, and I take it in, and the Holy Spirit translates it for me, and, you know, I didn't know my own strength.
Oh. I didn't know that's another one yes yeah I didn't know I didn't know my own strength I didn't yeah and some days I still don't but but I did not crumble I didn't crumble yeah I cracked but I did not crumble I didn't crumble yeah I crashed down yeah and I stumbled but I did not crumble I did not come
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Sly Stone became an icon.
When did you know that we were all one?
And what does that mean to you?
When did I know the first time we were all one?
I don't know the first time, but it continues to be reinforced, and I'll tell you when I got it in a way that changed my life, forever and ever, and it was the day Jameah passed.
You know, she passed at home, surrounded by me and everybody in the family.
And the day before she died, she...
She passed it on Christmas Day, 2003.
What kind of cancer was it?
Colon, colon cancer.
Some rare form they say is only genetic and nobody in our family ever had it.
You know, the night before she died, I was sitting there and I guess I knew, I guess I knew, I just couldn't accept it.
And I was praying over her.
We had taken her to the hospital, and she came home, and she was resting and sleeping.
And I sat over her, and I said, God, if I've done anything to hurt this, your child, please forgive me.
And I asked her to forgive me for anything I had done and said, because I said this to you before, and I'm real clear about it.
I was a great provider.
I was a horrible mother, a horrible mother.
I didn't nourish my kids.
I didn't nurture them.
I didn't know how. I didn't give them what I didn't have I had to learn it and by the time I learned it they were wrong they didn't need it but I asked God for forgiveness and I had a spontaneous experience in that moment where I saw the Christ I saw him standing there in front of me my eyes were closed
it was like I was frozen in time and he was standing there and dressed what looked like to me in kenti cloth and i said okay in my brain right i said okay i'ma you have lost your mind you're looking at a black jesus dressed in kenti cloth but god shows up the way you recognize him in your consciousness
and he says to me wow will you give her to that is powerful yeah he says to me what will you and he said will you give her to me?
And in the vision, dream, experience, I don't know what you call it, I don't need to explain it, I lifted her up out of the bed and when I lifted her up she was naked and I placed her in the arms of Christ.
In the vision? In the vision.
Okay. And as I did that, it's like he grew bigger and backed up and then they were gone.
And And it startled me, and I opened my eyes, and she was laying there in the bed.
And I knew then! I said if she makes it through Christmas Day, she's gonna make it.
She died at 10, 18 Christmas morning.
Whoa. So I wasn't really even shocked.
I didn't want it, and I was broken, I was hurt.
And I remember something my ex -husband said to me, which in the moment, wounded me, but has sustained me.
After she passed, and immediately, you know, know, because we're all ministers, we gathered around the bed and started praying.
And I just had a human motherly breakdown.
And I said, why, why haven't I served you?
Haven't I obeyed you?
Because very often we think that if we do this for God, God should do something for us.
You know, like we should be rewarded for doing what God sent us here to do, which was be obedient, loving and faithful and I said why why why why why would you take her from me and my ex -husband said this isn't about you and in that moment it broke my heart but today I live it this isn't about me this is about God's
plan and purpose this is not about me y 'all gonna fix my life sitting here with you everything that has happened my losing my daughter going broke filing bankruptcy, you know, driving a seven year old car.
It ain't about me! And the quicker I get that, the quicker I get that, the less sorrow and suffering I will experience.
This ain't about me.
Tell us about the letter you received in her journal.
You saw a journal. You ran across her journal.
I read her journal.
She, once she got ill, she always kept journals.
I taught her. she always had a journal but once she got ill she started really keeping a journal every single day and after she passed I went through I got into bed and I read her journals and maybe three or four months after she had passed I saw this and it helped me it saved my life because I was really
ready to leave out of here I have had so much pain in my life I didn't think I could sustain another hour of it.
Yeah. She wrote, Father, I know that you have great things ordained for me.
She was an ordained minister.
How old was she when she died?
18 years old when she went into the ministry, 30 years old when she died.
OK. I know you have ordained me to do great things I even know that some of the things you have planned for me I will not be able to do in this body this body is just physical the greatness you have for me is of a spiritual nature a nature I may never find in this body She wrote that in October and she
died in December. And that said to me, she really understood this.
She really did. And as her mom, I don't have the right not to understand.
I need to get some understanding.
Because, yeah, when I read that too, I thought she knew.
She knew, she knew.
She knew. and I even know that some of the things you have planned for me I will not be able to do in this body the greatness you have for me is of the spiritual nature a nature I may never find in this body she so she's here with us she's all up in this yeah she was an exquisite exquisite soul an exquisite
spirit my greatest teacher do you believe that every person who comes comes into being existence for a reason.
Absolutely. That nobody is here...
Accidentally, even though you got pregnant in the bush in the back of the car.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, everybody.
Everything God does is purposeful.
And since God is in each of us, each of us has a purpose.
Now, you have this purpose to build on, to do television.
I have my purpose. But Miss Franklin, in the projects, has a purpose.
everybody has a purpose because everything God does is purposeful and God is in everybody everybody and everything and when we start paying attention those purposes will all come together and it will blossom into something phenomenal for the planet and it's happening, it really is happening Do you feel
that we're getting better or worse?
Yeah, yeah, 60 % of the human family is awake.
60 %! But here it is.
It's awake? It's awake!
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what the news reports are the sleeping lunatics.
Okay? So, you see this?
See this? This thing right here is about 40 years old.
I had a thing. I don't know what you call it.
Let's call it something.
Let's call it a growth.
And so, when they took it out, they had to cut it.
And it bled. Then they took the thing out and they stitched it up and when I looked at it, it was horrible.
The stitches, it was oozing, it was very painful.
Now look at it. The scar is there, but I don't remember the pain.
What we're looking at in the world now is the cut thing with the stitches because we know that what we've been doing the way we're doing it isn't working.
So we're looking at the poison that's coming out, and that's hurtful.
It's painful. It's ugly as the day is long.
But 20 years, 30 years from now, all we'll see is the scar.
The pain will be gone.
It'll be all cleaned up.
That's where we are.
We're looking at the oozy nastiness.
It's OK. In the world.
In the world. In the world.
In the family, in the relationships.
And the fact that we can sit here on a Sunday morning, and people watch us on Facebook, and watch us on the web, over .com, and watch us on the own channel and all over the world, means that there is a gathering of like minded people.
You know, if we believe that the darkness, the evil, the ego, the devil, whatever you want to call it, is going to win, then we cannot believe in God.
We can't believe in God and think that the darkness is going to win.
Then we just all just need to lay out naked right now.
Take me now, Lord, take me now.
You know, how can we really believe that?
I will not believe that the darkness is gonna win.
I will not believe it.
I believe that the only thing that's gonna dispel the darkness, boop, is for the light to come on.
Yeah. And the lights are coming on, boop, boop, boop, here, there.
People eating more vegetables, living green, taking in saving animals, all of that is the light.
Taking in saving animals, all of that is the light coming on.
Yeah. There are so many reasons to get or stay strong.
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At Planet Fitness, you'll find best -in -class equipment for a full -body workout.
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And don't miss out on the brand new plate -loaded machines like hack squats and supine benches too.
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Plus, all members have access to free fitness training and memberships start at just $15 per month.
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Hours, amenities, and offers vary by club.
Must be 18 years old to enroll or 13 through 17 with a parent or guardian.
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What is a soul? What is the soul?
The soul, I believe, is the fingerprint of God that becomes a physical body.
Ooh. That is... I believe that.
It's the fingerprint, you know, like if you put it on a piece of paper and it's unique to everybody.
Oh, my goodness, does that not touch me in a powerful way?
Did you just have that answer waiting?
Yeah. It's the fingerprint of God that becomes the physical body.
Unique in its own development and expression, but filled with the divinity that is the essence of all that is.
Okay. All right. What is your definition of God?
All that is. Everything, everything, breath, life, everything.
I can't even, just get Webster's dictionary, throw it on the floor.
It's everything, everything.
And God is in everything.
God is everything, not only in, is everything.
Everything is God, a manifestation of the presence of God, a manifestation of the nature of God, a manifestation of the need for God, everything.
Okay, because I was going to ask you, when you're looking at darkness, at evil, at things that are undesirable, how is that God, and you're saying it's the manifestation of the need for God.
Yeah. When you're looking at darkness, you know, I told you about that that first lesson I read in A Course in Miracles, I am among the ministers of God.
so when I'm looking at darkness I can't run screaming from the room yeah I have to know I am among the ministers of God and what would a minister of God do bring the presence of darkness but bring in the light yeah and aren't we all among the ministers absolutely that's the point we forget yeah we keep
looking for a minister and not realizing you it boo have you always considered yourself a spiritual person or was there an aha moment when you recognize your connection into something bigger than yourself.
I saw the feminine face of God in the mirror.
I saw the feminine face of God as I felt the life slipping out of my body.
I didn't know what you called it.
And coming from a conservative...
You felt the life slipping out of your body when you committed suicide.
When I was trying to commit suicide.
And I didn't know what you call it until one day when I heard it and I said, well, this must be God.
And if it ain't, that's what I'm calling it.
and so you know you become what you believe so i believe god speaks to me and then when it speaks i understand and i said okay because the sheep know the voice of the shepherd yeah i didn't need anybody to tell me what kind of sheep i was or what i needed to do you know people can talk you in and out
of philosophy and theory but they can't talk you out of your experience yeah yeah and i experienced God's voice in my soul, which was the fingerprint, and the fingerprint came alive, and I said, well, I don't know what this is, but I'm calling it good, and I'm calling it God.
God is love. I believe in love.
God is truth. I believe in truth.
God is wisdom. I believe in wisdom.
God is peace. I believe in peace.
Pick one and stick with it.
Stick with it. That's right.
Did you grow up in a religious family?
Oh, yeah. Ooh, girl, please.
Child. Yes. We were churchified and religious churchy entity churchy entity my new word churchy affinity yeah I went to church Sunday Friday Wednesday I knew all of the songs and I knew all of the scriptures and you know and I was wretched born in sin and if I didn't line up with somebody else's concept
of what God was I was going straight to hell.
So I was prepared to go to hell and instead made my life a living hell until I woke up and said, I don't know what that is.
It sounds like God to me.
I'm going to listen.
How do you define religion versus spirituality?
Religion is the rules, regulations, ceremonies, and rituals developed by man to create conformity and uniformity in the approach to God.
spirituality is god's call in your soul oh that's good preach preach preach that is good that is good that's that's what works spirituality is it's the call of god in your soul you know because god is in simplicity you can't have a full compound sentence to explain god you understand say, God is.
Do you consider yourself still a seeker?
Oh, yeah. I'm still a seeker.
I will always be a seeker until I take that last breath.
Because the minute I think I know it all, I got it all, I won't be fully reliant on God.
I won't be a frog fully reliant on God.
And I got to hop. I got to hop as God calls me.
So yeah, I will always be a seeker.
I don't ever want to know it all.
In In fact, I don't know nothing.
I thought I knew, but I was mistaken.
Because I didn't have peace.
And when you do know in your work, it's when you have surrendered.
I give myself away.
You can't say that enough because people think surrender is...
Oh, yes. And for me, having Native American blood and African blood and having been to the reservation and understanding the culture and the history of both of those communities that I'm from, I understand what surrender looked like and meant to them.
For the Africans, surrender looked like slavery.
For the Native Americans, surrender looked like the reservation.
But that's not the kind of surrender God calls us to.
He calls us to open arms.
I give myself away so you can use me.
What does prayer mean to you?
It means intimate. it means intimate heartfelt authentic communication with my boo with the capital B God is my boo God is all caps my boo and that's how I do it I don't mean to be irreverent or disrespectful but as long as I held God out there as opposed to in here i don't pray to an external god i
don't pray to an external god i pray to an internal god so it's a conversation okay boo what we're gonna do here this is looking real strange talk to me and then there are those moments when i have to say father father i just love you today mother i love you today that's for me aren't you still amazed
at the miraculous ways God shows up in your life.
It is mind -blowing.
It is! It is mind -blowing to me.
Yes, me too. Oh, my goodness.
You know, I could tell you stories.
One day we'll have our crab cakes and we'll tell stories.
But it just happened just the other day.
It just happened just the other day.
And I say, okay, God...
What was yours? I'll tell you mine.
You tell me yours. You tell me yours first.
Okay. Mine was I walked out in my front yard, and I literally, I could hear the real Twitter, the birds chirping, and it was like the grass came alive and the trees came alive.
And I could feel that all of it was literally God speaking to me.
Breathing. Breathing.
It was the presence.
I could feel it in every stone, every place I placed in my foot.
And I was just like, whoa.
I was in the backyard and basically the same thing and I said good morning God and the crow said I said now you know that is just too much I said is that you God I said stop it I said okay I'm not gonna say anything I'm not gonna say another word if it's you God talk to me right now and the crow said
and what i heard was no thank you i can't believe that both of ours was a nature moment yeah yeah it was a nature moment women yeah it was a nature moment i could feel it what is your personal prayer oh i have three okay help that's the first one Help me now.
That's the second one.
Thank you. Those three will cover anything, anything.
They'll cover it. I don't need anything else.
I got some others, but - Wow that was great.
That's really great.
Help. Help me now. Thank you.
That's it. I don't need anything else.
Where do you feel most at home or at peace?
Braless in my bed, watching reruns of Law and Order.
Wow. That's it. That's heaven.
don't have to be deep.
I don't have to be special spiritual talking to Elliot and Olivia with no bra on it.
Law and order. I can't think what happens when we die.
I have to imagine what happens when we die and I think it's like we just wake up the next day in someplace and continue on with what we're doing.
I don't think it's the end and the darkness and all of that and I for me again back to my master teacher, Jamia, about a week after she died, and I was in the shower weeping my little heart out.
And I said, Jamia, where are you?
And she said, I'm right here, Mumsy.
I'm right here, Mumsy.
She used to call me Mumsy.
I'm right here, Mumsy.
Did you see her? I didn't see her.
God is wise. I couldn't take seeing her.
I couldn't take that.
But I heard her. And I said, well, where are you?
I'm right here. That's what I believe.
I believe they're all right here.
And I said to her, do you see Grandpa, my father, and Uncle Ray, my brother?
She said, oh no, they are in another dimension.
Wow. And when I think about how she lived and how they lived, that was real clear for me.
Another dimension. And she said, if ever you want to hear me, see me, just, no she didn't say see me, she said if ever you want me play Native American flute music and that's what I do.
I put it on and I talk to her.
Well now, that should freak your audience out.
Everybody's friends.
I always know, okay, I always knew she was strange.
What do you want your legacy to be?
I want my legacy to be the essence of the teachings in each of my children, my books, acts of faith, until today.
Yesterday I cried. Yesterday I cried.
Peace from the Broken Peace.
All of it. Forty years from now that young women, men, people can see, wow, this was going on back then.
Uh -huh. Because I think the work will be, it talks about what they will be living.
Yeah. But you know, it's interesting.
When I opened my school and I was saying to Maya Angelou, gee, that will be my legacy, she said, as I'm saying to you, you have no idea what your legacy will be.
None, yeah. You have no idea.
Your legacy is every life that has ever been touched, been uplifted, been moved, been not moved by everything you did and shared.
Yeah. I can accept that.
You can accept that.
And that's good enough for me.
What do you know for sure?
That God loves me. And I didn't do anything wrong.
I didn't do anything wrong.
Let me just say, I'm so proud of you.
I'm so honored. Thank you.
Thank you for sharing.
We didn't have a script or nothing.
I know. Sisterhood.
Put you and me in a room and there we are, two hours later.
Two souls. Two souls coming together.
Thank you. Thank you, my sister.
I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe rate and review this podcast Join me next week for another Super Soul Conversation Thank you for listening
