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I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Supersoul Conversations, the podcast.
I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time.
Taking time to be more fully present.
Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now.
Alanis and her twin brother, Wade, were born in 1974 in Ottawa, Canada.
raised Catholic, Alanis was a self -proclaimed god girl, recognizing a deeper connection to what she calls the divine early on.
She was also drawn to music at an early age, landing her first record deal at 14.
After releasing two pop albums in Canada, she took a big risk, moving to Los Angeles in 1994 at the age of 19.
It was in California where she began exploring an edgier, more introspective approach to her music, resulting in her first U .S.
release, Jagged Little Pill.
The album won four Grammys and sold more than 33 million copies, breaking the record for a debut by a female artist in the U .S.
But life in the spotlight took its toll.
Alana struggled with eating disorders and was plagued with bouts of depression and anxiety, buckling under the pressure to live up to the image of a fearless female rock star.
She found herself isolated and alone.
Searching for deeper meaning and purpose, Alanis set out on a path toward self -healing, a path she continues to this day.
I'm excited. So many people first came to know you through Jagged Little Pill.
Wow. Yes. That was nearly 20 years ago.
And now you've just recently turned 40 yes and call that a seminal moment I thought Jagged Little Pill that was a seminal moment was it that was a seminal moment that I'm only able to process now for having PTSD my way through the last 20 years in response to the mayhem that was that chapter so Jagged
Little Pill came out yes and it just it just turned you into a phenomenon yes we were playing 100 -seater clubs and then we were were playing stadiums.
So it went from zero to 650 in 3 .5 seconds.
Wow. And what does that do to your personal psyche?
What happens? I'd had a model version of it in Canada.
I had a couple of records out in Canada that quote, unquote, did well by Canadian standards.
So I'd had my teeth cut a tiny bit in terms of prep, but my head spun around 360.
And I just remember having been the person who loved to sit and watch people.
I remember I would just sit at outdoor malls and just watch people all day and imagine their lives.
And then I immediately became the watch -ed.
And that was really disconcerting.
So I remember looking down a lot.
I remember I didn't laugh for about two years.
A lot of self -protection.
People would, you know, break into my hotel room while I was doing a show and leave notes and take things.
And so there was a lot of invading of boundaries.
And all I remember was setting boundaries backstage.
I just remember having been the person who loved to sit and watch people.
I remember I would just sit at outdoor malls and just watch people all day and imagine their lives.
And then I immediately became the watch -ed.
And that was really disconcerting.
So I remember looking down a lot.
I remember I didn't laugh for about two years.
A lot of self protection.
People would, you know break into my hotel room while I was doing a show and leave notes and take things.
And so there was a lot of invading of boundaries And all I remember was setting boundaries backstage all the time.
Did you think you knew who you were at the time?
I think I started figuring out who I was about a week ago.
Yeah. Yeah. So you didn't even...
Because my thing, I've said for years, that if that big, that fame thing hits you and you're not grounded or rooted in something that, in an identity and a certainty about that.
Yes. Then you just sort of get taken over by it.
It's like a big, huge wave that takes you under.
Yes. Did you feel that?
I feel like the desire for fame as an end, as opposed to a means to an end, which, you know, as you probably know more than anyone, fame can be a means to an end of service.
Yes, yeah. But when it's just fame, and I was subject to what fame offered as anyone would be, and it was just, it was disconcerting and it was disconnective actually.
I had the bill of goods sold to me that I'd be able to be hanging out with Johnny Depp and you and I would be chatting every day and having tea and then I came to see that it was actually quite isolating.
I felt disconnected from people.
I felt there were a lot of projections and a lot of assumptions, a lot of misperceptions which felt violent at times.
So it wasn't as connective as I thought it would be.
You used the term PTSD.
What do you mean really by that?
Traumatized because on some level, I think, becoming famous and wanting fame, there's some trauma.
Did you want it? Yeah, of course.
I don't think it happens by mistake for anybody, frankly.
And then the traumatized person, in this case me, gets traumatized by the very thing that I thought would be the bomb.
You know, I thought that all would be helped and healed and soothed by fame.
Because when I get famous, I will be less lonely.
And I will be understood and I will be loved.
and that love will go in and heal any of the broken parts.
And the truth is, there's no difference between fame or, you know, when I get thin or when I get rich or when I meet the right guy, when I get the job, when I get that car, when I get babies, then I will be...
When I retire. When I retire, then I will be happy, I will be healed, I will be...
And it's the same thing.
Everything will be okay, yes.
Everything will be okay.
Yes, as though somehow we as humans could be exempt from pain.
You know, one of the big lessons I've learned over the last little while has been that if I can become comfortable with pain, which is different than suffering, if I can become comfortable with pain as just an indication, and it's potentially a daily thing, in my case it often is, then there won't be
my living in the future all the time, that one day if and when I'll be happy.
Or as one of our guests said, learning to walk in the dark, being comfortable embracing when the dark shows up.
Yes, and even if I'm not comfortable doing that, I'm very uncomfortable in pain.
I hate it. Yeah, we all do.
I run from it with all kinds of addictive fun things, you know, temporarily fun things.
But at least knowing that it's a portal and that on the other side there is this great sense of peace that goes beyond this ego development.
But I was having a hard time because I didn't have a sense of self.
You didn't? No, I had a really robust self from what people were telling me and from what my career said I was doing, certainly.
Yeah, that's so interesting, and I know really kind of...
Usual, unfortunately.
Well, strange for people, because when people are looking from the outside, they think that...
The self is so concrete.
Yeah, they think it's so concrete.
Which is its own challenge, too, if the self is that concrete.
You know, I think that in many ways, and I've heard lots of people say this, famous people talk about this.
I think in many ways I was so blessed, actually, because I got famous for literally being myself.
Yeah, that's great.
Literally. And was that self something that you knew?
Did you know, oh yeah, this is Oprah, quote unquote.
Yeah. Okay, that's great.
Yeah. And so I was, you know, the reason I think I became famous is because I broke the mold of trying to pretend to be, you know, Barbara Walters or trying to be like somebody else.
That's great. And then just sort of being myself.
And so the difference is, oh, so when you see me on the street, I am that person.
There's a congruence.
That's happening for me now.
What you just described is happening for me now.
And I had aspects of it that were one -dimensionalized and I was seen as singularly angry, which, you know, if you're going to be seen as singularly anything, angry's not terrible, then I was singularly spiritual, then singularly academic, and then in certain moments singularly stupid or flaky or fill
in the blank. So now it feels like, and I don't know whether it's because consciousness has evolved to the point where we're invited to be more, you know, integral.
More than one thing?
Yes, heaven forbid, that we're known as multitudinous beings.
Yes. So have you always been a seeker?
I've always been hungry, and I've always wanted to go to the lowest common denominator.
So I like getting to the essence of what's going on.
I hate my own lying, lying to myself, lying to other, so I like getting to the bottom where there's no lie left.
Wow, I love that. Yeah.
Getting to the bottom where there was no lie left.
And is that what your music was all about?
Because, you know, it struck such a chord with women, with the raw emotion, with the anger, with the vulnerability.
Were you living what you were writing?
I had a big dualistic thing going on in that when I would write in the studio, I felt safe because I was alone, frankly, or I was with a producer with whom I felt safe.
So I would just go for it, uncensored.
But the goal for me was to apply that authenticity to my day -to -day life.
So a lot of people would notice the split.
They'd say, on stage and in your lyrics, you're so authentic and so direct.
And then in person, you have this sort of persona and slightly meek even, because I am - Because you were having trouble with the self thing.
Well, I'm also introverted and temperamentally highly sensitive.
So I had this combination, Gemini, you know, of being both.
So on stage, the ham, the outspoken, comedic, crazy, intense, sweaty, glittery part would come out, Mm -hmm.
But then quietly alone in the studio, writing, pretty introverted.
Like, could be happy reading for six hours somewhere alone.
Oh, so can I. Yeah, that's the thing.
That's a little known thing about me, is that I could be happy alone for days.
With your soft socks.
Yes. Yes, with my soft socks.
Me too. Happy. Best.
Best week of my life until I get lonely, and then I want to snuggle and I need more.
Need more. So is it true that you didn't laugh for two years?
No, I didn't. Um, I just remember thinking the only way to survive this, you know, I would land at airports and people would be there with scissors trying to get my hair and get a piece of my skin, literally physically try to get a piece of my skin and they'd be jumping on the cars.
Well, now they just want a selfie.
God bless the selfie.
God bless the selfie.
And I just don't look good in selfies, but, you know, God bless it.
Who does, actually, really?
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Okay, this is interesting.
You have I read where you've said the same thing that I felt for years that I used to say this all the time on the show that fame is just a magnifying glass on who you really are or what you're grappling with in that moment or what you're grappling with that it just yeah you know that nothing really
changes it just puts a big old magnifying glass on it and all that stuff gets amplified and shows up yes so if there's self -doubt or if there's oh if there's self -hatred if there's anything and frankly god bless those young people in the public eye who are, you know, in the perfect time of their stage
of development to cut their teeth and figure it out, then thrown into the public eye as a young person.
Whatever it is, it just gets amplified.
What did it amplify in you?
A certainty around art.
I am nothing if not an artist activist and an activist on behalf of expression.
And the irony is that I don't, my not having had a sense of self, yet being so doggedly wanting expression to happen.
You know, going to speak to Congress, I remember, on behalf of artists when the digital world came into play and just fighting for the artist, you know, and fighting for that expression.
A certainty, a precocious...
Rainn Wilson said here...
Say again? Rainn Wilson here said, art's no different than prayer, it's the same thing.
Art, and inner child and art are inextricably late too.
Absolutely. So that's what's being expressed, this beautiful, delicate part.
So I think what was amplified as well might have been this propensity for service.
After Jagged Little Pill, the tour for that was finished.
I didn't want to do it anymore.
I remember going into a studio and just saying, I'm done.
And I often hear that with different artists who are burnt out.
You know, they really want to throw in the towel and they're not joking.
And I remember just thinking the only way and the only reason I could move forward is if service was imbued into this craziness.
So then it became really fun in that way.
So then did your art become an act of service?
Yes. Well, I actually think artists, anyone in the public eye is a social activist, whether they want to consciously embrace that or not.
Yeah. They're doing that.
People are defining themselves in accordance to you.
You are a service person.
But then I saw people would come up to me and say, you know, you really helped me through my parents' death or my divorce.
And so I thought, wow, me just being me, and it sounds like you may have said a version of this a moment ago, which is so beautiful to me.
Me being me in the studio was helping people, so I thought even if I don't entirely understand that, I want to keep doing it, so that's why I dove back in.
It's interesting to me, yeah, they're doing that.
People are defining themselves in accordance to you, you are a service person.
But then I saw people would come up to me and say, you know, you really helped me through my parent's death or my divorce, and so I thought, wow, me just being me, And it sounds like you may have said a version of this a moment ago, which is so beautiful to me.
Me being me in the studio was helping people.
So I thought, even if I don't entirely understand that, I want to keep doing it.
So that's why I dove back in.
It's interesting to me that your music was so liberating and healing for so many women in particular.
And I wonder, did it ever, did it heal you?
A yes when I would listen back to it years later.
So there are times quiet little moments, apparently not so private anymore, but driving, and I'll listen to a song and I'll just sob the whole way through it because I'll listen to it as though past self was singing to me now.
Really? Yes. But when you were doing it and writing it and in it, it was not, it was not the same.
There would be a movement of energy, and I actually think that art itself is cathartic, but it's not healing.
I thought that I could get away with writing You Ought to Know and writing these songs and it would absolve me and redeem and clean up but after having sung You Ought to Know night after night after night if I ran into that person I would have likely been catapulted right back to feeling uncomfortable
and terrified and you know awkward.
So it showed me that the process is cathartic of creating and moving energy and it can kickstart it can be a catalyst to investigate But unless there's an actual relationship going on or maybe I'm singing the song to the person across from me, there was not a lot of healing afforded.
You went through some really challenging times because you had anorexia and bulimia, correct?
Yep. So what did eating disorders teach you about the self?
Well, it taught me how women were and still are reduced to objects in a lot of ways or sexual pieces of meat, to be really direct about it.
and why I love being perceived as the angry white female on the cover of Rolling Stone was because I thought, well, at least I'm not perceived as just a sex piece of meat.
That's great. An angry woman is a thinking woman.
An angry woman is responding to what's going on in the culture and society around her.
But eating disorders for me, food was such an amazing way to calm my anxiety too.
It still is. Food, work, and love addiction for a long time.
I'm in active recovery for love addiction.
So those are my top three.
And then I have a hundredth secondary one.
What does an active recovery for love addiction mean?
It means, for me...
Explain. Explain, please.
Explain, please. Details.
So briefly, probably briefly, i .e., a year, if not a little bit more, five days a week therapy, you know, basically doing my own version of number one commitment recovery from love addiction.
The withdrawal with love addiction is harrowing.
It's probably the worst pain that I have felt in my life.
so treating a human being as that object focus, it's an impersonal experience.
As long as that person isn't interested, or if they're really interested in me, I would tweak it so that they would be horrified and wanna run, and then it was game on.
When I say love addiction, the word love ideally in my mind would be in quotes, because it's not actually love.
It's obsession. It's obsession and it's fear.
Love is just this natural state of recognizing that we're all connected and that we're one.
Oh my goodness. but you know, I remember doing a show about this years ago.
I mean, listen, I've done a show on everything.
Yeah, what have you not discussed?
I know. Whatever. So, this idea of...
But you know, so...
I read Keeping the Love You Find when I was 15, and I thought, here is a model that explains to me healthy love and active participation in both people's healing and your partner's healing.
And so I had this fantasy the whole time.
So you read Keeping the Love You Find.
I read, well, I had, you know...
I had Harville on here in, like, whenever he wrote Getting the Love You Want.
Yeah. I would not still be in relationship with Stedman had I not read that book.
Me neither. That book changed.
It's the best relationship book ever.
It explains it all.
It explains everything.
Everything. Yeah. And it's so merciful, and it's so intelligent, and it blends, for me, that stages of development chart not only explains how to navigate the relationship, but how to navigate this relationship and what I need to do in order to really become a whole.
And also, for me, it showed what you're attracting into your life, why you're attracting into your life.
and that's what what that getting the love you want principle did for me and the idea of being the active because a lot of people say well you know there's these this autonomous movement that was going on for a long time like do your individual work yes you know and then there was the other side which you
know do all your work and relationship and i actually think it's both yes do your individual work and know that you could be an active participant in your partner's healing yes and that's that third phase most people when they the three phase thing of three three phases of the committed journey of infatuation,
can't get your hands off each other.
Second phase, start conflict because it's going to happen.
Most people jump ship, especially in Hollywood.
Bye -bye. Bye -bye. I'm out now.
And I was of the mind that like phase two, this is just where it gets good.
You know, this is where we get to help each other and go to the phase three where you're helping each other out.
2010 was a big year for Alanis.
She married Mario Treadway, a fellow musician better known as Soul Eye, And the couple welcomed their son ever on Christmas Day that same year.
So you had some high -profile relationships.
And then you met your husband.
Yeah. OK, Mr. Solla.
Yeah, bless him. So what was different?
And how did whatever that was?
What changed the thing?
Yeah, what changed the thing?
I just remember meeting him thinking that he had a ceilinglessness to him, whether it was spiritually or the woo -woo conversation or ancient Egyptians or intellectually or psychologically or artistically stream of consciousnessly all of that.
I would I would date people and there would be something about me that would hit a brick wall with whomever I was sitting across from and with Solai when I first met him I could see that there was this limitlessness to where we could go and that I was even a little scared thinking oh god this I'm gonna I'm
gonna going into territories that are outside of my jurisdiction, outside of my comfort zone if I hang out with this person.
You remind me of a composite of my whole family, and this will get really interesting, and really challenging, and really beautiful.
So you got married in 2010.
And you were fascinated by that thing that Harville Hendricks describes as those three stages of committed relationships, you know, romantic love.
Then there's the battle of wills, the power struggle.
Yes, God bless you for knowing that.
Hold me. And finally the whole sort of like healing part of it.
Possibility, yeah. Possibility.
Because I've had a lot of growth in relationships.
Growth, growth, growth, growth and it's distinct from healing, right?
Yes, very distinct from healing.
So I was just so hungry for healing.
Always wanting opportunity to offer it to people but but desperate for it for my own so how has that process there's romantic love every and that I was even a little scared thinking oh God this I'm going to I'm going to be going into territories that are outside of my jurisdiction and outside of my comfort
zone if I hang out with this person like you remind me of a composite of my whole family and and this will get really interesting and really challenging and really beautiful so you got married in 2010 and you were fascinated by that thing that Harville Hendrix describes as those three stages of committed
relationships, you know.
Yes. Romantic love, then there's the battle of wills, the power struggle.
Yes, God bless you for knowing that, I love you.
Hold me. And finally, the whole sort of like healing part of it.
Possibility, yes. Possibility of healing.
Because I've had a lot of growth in relationships, growth, growth, growth, growth, and it's distinct from healing, right?
Yes, very distinct from healing.
So I was just so hungry for healing.
Always wanting to offer it to people, but desperate for it for my own self.
So how has that processed?
There's romantic love.
Everybody goes, this is the thing about it.
Infatuation, yeah. Yeah, the infatuation, which is really an aphrodisiac.
It's like, it's how we procreate.
Because if we weren't all over each other, why would we keep making babies?
Right, right. So there's the romantic, and there's the battle for struggle for power.
Yes. Did you all get through that?
We're still in it. We're still in it.
But we're onto ourselves.
You know, and Harville says basically five to seven years on average.
We're entering into our fifth year.
So we have moments of still being mired in the power struggle, and then we have moments of really being our best selves and actually just stopping our natural knee -jerk reactivity.
Do you feel like you're in the healing space?
Definitely. Yeah. Yes.
Yes, because, you know, the other thing that...
I learned from one of my spiritual teachers, Gary Zukoff, is that what you want is not a marriage, but you want a spiritual partnership between equals for the purpose of spiritual growth.
Yes, and Harville would say that if you're attracted and there's that buzz, that you're intellectually matched, and that might not mean you have the same education, but you're intellectually matched, that your level of willingness to do the work in a relationship is matched, and your wounds are matched.
So I could definitely tell Soli and I have complementary traumas going on.
And our education is really different, but our brains operate similarly.
Similarly. I'm telling you, when you get that and you're in a relationship, it just changes everything.
Yeah. You actually feel like it's an adventure.
You don't feel like you're being re -traumatized.
The only problem is that a lot of relationships, and I've been in tons of them, I was up for this whole idea of getting in the canoe, the sweet metaphor that Harville uses.
Yes. But the other person was like, oh, no, no, we're fighting too much.
This is the end. And I was devastated because I just thought, no, I know what this portends for.
I know what's possible.
Yeah. You know, and it just, it wouldn't get that.
But the fighting really is an opportunity for a major breakthrough.
But when the fighting stays, when it stays in that zone, it just feels like you're re -traumatizing each other.
And I get the, wow, we got to take a little breather here.
But that's usually when people say, I'm going to jump out.
They get infatuated again with someone else.
They go through the same thing.
in my case, over and over again because I was waiting for someone to see the value in sticking it out.
Wow, and you got that.
I did. Not only that, you got a boy.
Sweet boy. Sweet boy.
My dad works in B2B marketing.
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So what is the most important lesson you want to teach ever?
that he is this filter for love and consciousness and God to careen through him at varying rates.
In his case, I feel like the life stream courses through him very quickly.
So, you know, and that what we're doing here is we're doing a dance of self -definition over and over again and that who he is is a miracle.
You know, this search for contentment, which, you know, everybody really basically is on and can't even feel it because there's so much...
Trauma. Trauma and angst out there.
Yes. But for you, did it shift in 1997 when you went to India?
It did. I had what I now consider to be a glimpse of bliss.
And it lasted a month.
Wow. It was not abiding.
It was abiding for a month.
And I would meditate for four hours and I just saw the illusion.
Oh my gosh. I would love to do that.
Okay, let's do it. Okay.
Okay. Bye. Okay. See ya.
We're going off to India, sitting in the Himalayas.
A month. You had a month of bliss?
I had a month of bliss, and it continued when I came back to America.
Oh, my god, I'd kill for a month of bliss.
Yeah, oh, my gosh. OK.
I wouldn't kill, but you know, I'd be so.
You wouldn't have to kill.
You wouldn't have to kill.
You'd have a month of bliss.
You'd be so blissed out.
So what does that feel like?
It feels like my having seen through the illusion of my own ego and of this dance and of the separatism, this big big lie there's that word again this big lie that we're disconnected and I was doing it as much as anyone else was I was disconnected from the sense of God I was disconnected from my relationships
disconnected in here everything was fragmented and so I was believing that that was what I was so how did you come to that through meditation I stepped away from all I had did were you in the ashram where were you I went I went hiking in the Himalayas I a bunch of exercises where I thought I remember
hiking up into the mountains four days up no one around except for the odd animal and the odd kick -ass village and I just remember thinking I'm going to try to not talk about the future or anyone else only talk about now so there were exercises like that that I would try on I would meditate in India every
street corner is an altar there's incense it's just I love India there you go I love yes it's this grand invitation really Yes, and so was it that, you know, not a lot of people, not everybody, I know, is going to have a chance to get to India, but if you do go, now that you've been, can you have India in your
own backyard? Yes, and I remember saying that to my friend.
But if you do go, now that you've been, can you have India in your own backyard?
Yes. And I remember saying that to my friend.
We were meditating, and we were in that transcendental place, and we sort of came to, for lack of a better term, and my friend said, oh, we have to stay here.
And I said, no, let's just bring it back.
And I was able to bring it back, but it lasted about a month.
Really? And then it quickly slid away into the workaholic ethers.
Not to say that I don't have glimpses of it and this sort of connection with all that is access is not abiding for me.
It's just moments. See, I think the real work for all of us, because my God, God bless you, if you have the opportunity and the time to go and bliss out on a Himalayan mountaintop.
On anything, frankly.
On anything. Yeah. But the real work is staying in it in the day -to -day, ordinary, walking down the stairs, feeding the dogs, getting your kids off to school.
Yeah, in the mundane.
In the sweet mundane.
In the sweet mundane.
Yes, and for me, that's presencefulness, you know?
So to the degree that I cannot be obsessed with what's going on.
And right now, this culture is such a work -addicted culture.
How good are you at living in the observer space?
You talked about that a little earlier.
And watching all the stuff.
How good are you at being in that space?
I'm really good at it.
You are. I mean, I don't do it all the time.
But I love it. It's probably because of how I'm selfishly thinking how relaxing it is for my body.
Just to be in the observer mind.
Yeah. And also, having grown up with a lot of activity, a lot of personalities, a lot of chaos, watching was a normal orientation for me.
You know, we do a lot of talking on the show about happiness.
And I've read where you've said that confusion and anger and even fear and sadness are of equal importance to happiness.
Do you feel that there's too much happiness, too much emphasis placed on happiness?
Well, I think happiness is a state and it's a temporary state.
Yeah, always. So if we're chasing a temporary state, we're setting ourselves up to fail.
It's not part of the human invitation, really, to just feel one feeling at any given time.
Sitting in the seat of awareness, watching this like the movie that it is, can give some relief and show the dance of emotions that are temporary that move through and thoughts move through.
And they're like boats to me, you know, and my suffering is dependent upon how quickly I jump into the boat and follow that stream.
But if I can sit back and watch it, there's some relief.
But I wouldn't call it happiness.
I would call it the bliss or the joy of consciousness.
So also, I know transparency has always been very important to you.
And you said that transparency about what you're going through, levels of playing field.
Why is that of such value to you?
Because I live for connection, and I suffer deeply with disconnection, and I've been made fun of for that.
You know, a lot of ex -boyfriends who were just saying, you're obsessed with consistent connection.
And I remember thinking, well, I could think of worse things to be obsessed with.
Yeah. But, yeah, I think connection has always been what I've been obsessed with, connection with self, God, and other.
So there was a time, though, where you actually hid, literally hid, like, spiritual books or your spiritual interests, sticking books in drawers, because you were...
Ashamed. Of what? Judgment and being laughed at and being made fun of.
Of people saying you're a woo -woo.
Yeah, and I've been a woo -woo telepathic, and a lot of trauma is held in there, so just moving it is key.
As a 40 -year -old wife, mother, sister, friend, artist, activist, all, what makes you feel most alive today?
This conversation that really takes what's going on in the world and what we all ache in our hearts for to a new place that opens up new ideas and new possibilities for people.
It's my most exciting thing.
the essence of what we're up to in this moment.
Yeah. Yeah. Me too.
Yeah, man. What is the lesson that's taken you the longest to learn?
This work addiction one, and I think it's trauma stuff.
So for me to just keep continuously working through the somatic, you know, because I can tend to be a little conceptual, a little heady, to stay in my heart, to stay in my body.
You know, and so doing a lot of somatic experiencing and a lot of deep tissue Heller work and a lot of processing and blending all the therapies and modes together that there isn't one model for me that is the panacea for all of it.
To blend them all for me to keep coming back to who I really am.
But I'm still working on it, you know?
Tell me how creativity feeds your soul.
It moves energy. So stream of consciousness, I feel like I am letting myself be the filter that I am and be used, you know, whether I want to call it channeling or whatever.
Sometimes I think channeling is a little too heavy -handed um but i just feel like i'm being used by god i know a better that's not heavy -handed at all no it's not heavy -handed at all you know what as you just said that you know a better word than yeah tell me i know what it is this just hit me it's
so good god is streaming through you there god's doing a live stream yes that's so modern uh -huh That's until 2015.
Oh, my God. God's live streaming through you.
Yes, there's live streaming.
And that I would be as open to that as possible, as often as possible.
So finish the sentence.
The world needs. Connection.
A sense of connection.
Music is. Music is the greatest gift for me.
and it's the soundtrack for life.
Love is oh man there's so many for that.
Love is most felt when it's a verb and when it's an action.
Yeah. And a lot of times people think well I'm doing this for you and I think wait wait if you were really attempting to love you might want to check in with the other person what would feel like love for them.
Yes. So what advice would you give to your younger self?
Oh I love this question.
It's a sweet question.
Yeah, it is. I would say everything's going to be okay, and you can be young.
You can be a young person.
You can enjoy. And there's a lot of stuff going on around that I felt like I had to manage at the time.
So I would say to her, I would come in as a 40 -year -old and say, I got this.
You can go play. I got this.
Yeah. Perfect. Oh, thank you for having me.
Really. Wasn't this fun?
This is amazing. God bless you.
I felt it. It was so good.
I'm Oprah Winfrey, and you've been listening to Supersoul Conversations, the podcast.
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