My dad works in B2B Marketing, but I never really knew what that meant.
Then one day my dad came by my school for career day and told everyone in my class he was a big MQL man.
Then he just kept saying things like, The more MQLs the better, over and over.
My friends still laugh at me to this day.
I think it means Marketing Qualified Lead.
One thing's for sure, I'll be known as the MQL man's kid for the rest of my days.
Why can't you just be a fireman or a lawyer?
Why? You ruined my life, dad.
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Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio.
Good morning. This is Laura.
Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast.
Today's episode is going to be a longer one, part of the series where I interview fascinating people about how they spend their time and any advice they have for the rest of us.
So today I am delighted to welcome Joel Larsgaard and Matt Altmicks to the show.
They are better known as Joel and Matt, the hosts of the How to Money podcast.
So today we are going to be talking financial tips alongside productivity ones.
Joel and Matt, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having us.
I didn't realize we were fascinating.
We appreciate you having us on.
Yeah, well, I've been listening to you guys for a long time.
So I've been following all the details of the lives of Matt and Joel and their various kids and two minivans.
You each have matching minivans, right?
True story. We do. Actually, mine just rolled over 175 ,000 miles.
It was a badge of honor.
I made the kids watch the odometer as it rolled over.
We all did a little dance in the van while we did that.
Yeah. Hopefully strapped in.
Indeed. You're wonderful.
So, you know, listeners to this show love hearing about people's routines.
So I would love to hear if either of you guys have either a morning routine or another routine at a different point of day that really helps make your life more functional.
Wait. Okay. So I'll share Laura.
So for the past two years, I've been working out and specifically the past two months, I've been working out on a daily basis.
This is something that I wanted to incorporate more into my life and I have never been an early morning riser kind of person.
And I'm getting up every single day at 545, which is for me at least.
I don't know. That's crazy early.
And what I realized was that like for the longest time, I was trying to eliminate distractions in my life, like for like specifically like social media in the evenings, you're sitting there, you're doing the like the doom scrolling.
It just goes on and on.
And what I realized was that instead of just saying no to something, what I needed to do was replace it with something.
And what I finally realized was that, oh, well, working out.
This is something that I really enjoy and it's become more important than obviously wasting time on social media or, you know, some of the other ways that we waste our time.
And so the ability to supplant that was massive for me actually wanting to get up in the mornings and do it.
It means I'm going to bed earlier as well, which is a vital part to stay healthy and making sure you don't feel like like garbage the next morning.
And now Matt looks like Dwayne The Rock Johnson.
So there's that. Yeah, exactly.
Part of a morning routine is, in fact, going to bed on time the night before.
So what time do you have to go to bed to wake up at 545?
Nine thirty is what I'm aiming for.
My wife and I both.
And it's awesome. I feel like I'm a completely different person than I was even two months ago, but certainly beyond two years ago, for sure.
Well, I love that the idea that, you know, it's not enough just to be like, I need to get off social media, right?
I need to spend less time on social media if you don't have something else that you are replacing it with like why you're like, well, why am I off social media?
Social media is kind of fun.
I don't know. There are fun things I can do with my time, but you really enjoyed the getting up now.
I really do. Yeah. I mean, it's something I maybe that sounds crazy to some people, but it's something I really do look forward to.
And sometimes my wife gets out there with me as well.
And so it's kind of a time of connection.
I mean, that's mostly on Saturdays, I guess, only.
But but yeah, it's it's it's fantastic.
Awesome. How about you?
You have any sort of routine?
Yeah. So probably my favorite routine is taking my son to school on the bike.
So I've got an electric cargo bike.
And that just kind of like that's the best part of my morning is getting to ride with him.
We just tell jokes the entire time.
And then I come home and I walk my daughter to school.
So there's something about like that kind of, you know, I'm not pumping iron like matters, but there's something about that activity that gets my day started right, especially doing it with the kids.
And then after lunch and after lunch walk just because you're sitting down, you're at the computer so much of the day.
And so like getting out in nature, touching some grass, looking at some leaves is just very grounding.
And it takes me out of this, all the whirlwind of running a business.
Then you get back into it after that walk.
Yeah, you need a little break to boost your energy.
And I'm sure that's something that does.
Yeah, exactly. And what you didn't share is that there's there's a there's medical research to back this to because the ability to move a little bit.
And so this is something I do as well.
And it's it's not only just like a psychologically healthy thing, but like it keeps your blood sugar from spiking.
And don't you get me started on like continuous glucose monitors, which we're doing this.
Yeah, well, you know, the postprandial walk, as they call it, yeah, is an old fashioned term.
But, you know, good to good to still do.
Yeah, I like I like that you're bringing interesting definitions to it.
Interesting terms. Well, so you guys run a financial podcast and have for several years.
We are coming up on the holidays when this is airing, which is, of course, a time of financial stress for a lot of people.
Probably doesn't have to be, but does tend to be.
So question time. Have either of you ever overspent during the holiday seasons before?
Yeah, I have, but not not outside of the realm of normalcy, I don't think.
But there are times where you want to get a certain gift for somebody and you feel that is the perfect thing for this person that I love.
And so you end up kind of overcommitting or spending more than you thought you would on a specific gift for someone that you love.
Or yeah, or maybe you do go a little bit overboard.
I guess I have never gone to the point where I ended up in credit card debt the next year because I overspent on Christmas or holiday gifts for friends or family or anything like that.
I think that's the thing that I'm wary of, because when you look at the numbers, like there's a significant portion of Americans that wind up getting the credit card bill in January and they're paying it off for months and months to come.
There are still Americans who are in debt from last holiday, holiday 2023, a significant portion of Americans.
So I guess that's the thing that worries me.
Overspending a little bit if you have the extra cash and you can take it out of your budget somewhere else, that's one thing.
But if you're like putting it on the credit card and you're not going to be able to pay the balance off, that's the scary stuff.
And I think oftentimes it gets not just like one giant purchase or maybe for some folks it is, but I feel like it's just the accumulation of all the little purchases.
It's just a little bit more here, a little bit more there.
Oh, we forgot to account for the teachers.
Oh, yeah, that's a lot.
You know, like we got to include them.
And so I think for a lot of folks, maybe a takeaway is just to have some of these discussions ahead of time.
I was I was talking with a friend of mine and man, I was so encouraged because she was saying how her and her husband, they decided that they were trying to back off the gifts this year.
And I was expecting her to to talk about grandparents like extended family, which I think for a lot of times for a lot of folks, that's difficult, right?
It's like, OK, I see you a couple of times a year.
How am I supposed to know something that's actually going to move the needle?
And but no. And so I went into the conversation assuming that to be the case.
She was talking about her and her husband as well as her first grader and her third grader.
And she said they had this conversation on the front end and the kids were on board with it.
They they substituted a trip, which I think was the trip that they were still planning to take in the spring.
But the ability for the I guess the I don't know, not to say that you should be tricking your kids or I was going to say, I'm not sure that my children would be on board with limiting the gifts.
I still want the PS5, mom.
I do think having these conversations can help a lot of folks, again, especially when it comes to extended family.
But even still, if if you do want to have some gifts around the tree around the like around the holidays, I think maybe what that means is slowing your roll a little bit when it comes to expenses leading up to that.
Because we are all so used to just the not only like weekly purchases that we make, but almost daily where we're thinking, oh, this is something I would kind of like.
And you go ahead and make the purchase.
It shows up. So now anytime we get a gift, it's not even all that special, I think, as opposed to think back 30 years ago.
And people, I don't know, like we're a wealthy country now, Laura, and we don't really do without.
And oftentimes that can maybe take away from some of the magic of the holidays and actually getting gifts for folks.
Interesting. Yeah, I think another thing that happens with the holidays is, you know, you're saying people don't account for all the people that they're going to have to buy gifts for.
But I don't know that we even account for all the things that we wind up spending on.
Like maybe people have a thought of like, OK, well, here are the gifts, but then you're going to wind up traveling to see family or something like that.
And that's an entirely separate expense.
Or, you know, you decide to host a party or there's additional going out or something like that that happens in the course of the month.
I think maybe it's just that people don't build all of it into the picture.
I think that's true.
And I think to your point, and to Matt's point, part of the thing that we spend extra money on, too, that didn't used to be the case.
I don't think to nearly the same extent is buying stuff for ourselves.
And so instead of putting them on our Christmas list or whatever for other people, the wish list that we would love other people to get for us, because you're right.
Like my mom will say, hey, what do you want for this Christmas?
I'm like, I don't know.
I feel like I don't need anything.
But it's because I do buy the things along the way when I when I want them.
And I think when things are on sale and this is the time of year where all the retailers are trying to get in our in our pockets, they want our cash.
And so there's discounting things significantly.
We're more inclined to buy, I don't know, a nice TV because it's significantly cheaper than it's going to be at any other time in the year.
And so I think that's the other thing we don't account for as well.
We're just like adding things to our cart for us while we're adding things to the cart for other people.
And that can become like an overwhelming financial burden, too.
All right. So that's our tip there.
Be careful about treating yourself over the holiday season.
Maybe at least ask other people for those things that you really want.
But we're going to take a quick ad break and then we will be back with more from Joel and Matt.
My dad works in B2B marketing, but I never really knew what that meant.
Then one day my dad came by my school for career day and told everyone in my class, he was a big MQL man.
Then he just kept saying things like, the more MQLs the better over and over.
My friends still laugh at me to this day.
I think it means marketing qualified lead.
One thing's for sure.
I'll be known as the MQL man's kid for the rest of my days.
Why couldn't you just be a fireman or a lawyer?
Why? You ruined my life, dad.
Not everyone gets B2B, but LinkedIn has the people who do.
And with ads on LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people based on job title, industry, likelihood to buy and more.
Start converting your B2B audience into high quality leads today.
We'll even give you a hundred dollar credit on your next ad campaign.
Go to LinkedIn .com slash customer to claim your credit.
That's LinkedIn .com slash customer.
Terms and conditions apply.
LinkedIn, the place to be, to be.
Well, I am back. This is one of the longer episodes of Before Breakfast.
I am talking with Joel and Matt of How to Money.
So we've been talking about the holiday season, but of course the holiday season comes right before the new year.
If people were going to make new year's resolutions, financial new year's resolutions, what would you suggest doing?
What are some steps that people might be able to take to have a more financially sane life in the new year?
Or I think one of the best things that we can do, I mean, especially this time of year, like a lot of folks have time off from work, right?
And I think using that time to do the holiday things like baking cookies, building snowmen, going caroling.
By the way, Laura, do you still sing in the choir?
I feel like I will be singing a lot of Christmas carols this year.
Obviously doing all those things that are important to you and the culture of your family.
But also the ability to take some of this time and to look back.
Sort of like you said, like oftentimes we don't account for all that we're spending on and the ability to look back.
Look back over the past year and see where our dollars went.
And having a meeting with your partner to be able to get on the same page to make make it feel like and not just make it feel like, but to realize that you're on the same team moving forward and looking ahead to 2025.
And maybe identifying some of the different goals, some of the like some of the rocks that are non -negotiables where you're like, this is something that's really important to us.
Let's do all that we can to make this happen.
Hey, we've been eating out a lot this past year.
What if we cut back and that's going to allow us to go on that sweet vacation this summer?
Let's make that a priority.
And not only for partners, I think, but also these conversations I think are less likely to happen with, like if you're if you're flying solo, right?
Because you got the natural prodding of your partner saying, oh, do we really need another one of those?
Or, you know, there's there's different conversations you have.
But when it's just yourself, like you said, oftentimes, we just add that item to the cart.
We click to buy. We don't think twice about it.
So I think it's even more important to be intentional with our time with for individuals that are that are by themselves as they think through just some of the different goals that their financial goals that they're looking to achieve on their own for the next year.
Yeah, I think that money date thing is really important, right?
And having those conversations and now is a perfect time to try to have those say, what do we want to accomplish in 2025?
Start thinking about those things now.
What are the financial goals we have when it comes to saving and investing and buying awesome stuff that we care about, whether it's experiences or actual physical items?
But I think the other thing, too, is to look at your prior spending and say, well, what is it that I didn't even realize I spent money on?
I just recently realized that we are paying for Apple TV and we don't watch Apple TV.
And so that's that's actually the norm for most Americans when you look at what people assume they're spending in subscription amounts every single month.
They vastly underestimate.
So the average person say, I'm probably spending 120 bucks or something, but maybe they're in actual value.
They're spending three hundred plus dollars on recurring subscriptions.
So identifying those things because the truth is lots of times it's it's wasted money.
It's money that could be better spent elsewhere.
And because our eyes not on the ball and we're not identifying maybe the places that we're spending where we're not getting any value, we don't have the chance even to make the change.
All right. So we've got money conversation with a partner if you have one.
Making sure you're on the same page for your big goals for the next year.
We're going to look through all those subscriptions, see if you're actually watching those shows that you are paying for.
You guys got any others for us that we might consider for the new year?
So I think the other thing that I want to and this feels so anathema to American culture is to say, be really careful before you upgrade your car.
It is it is like the single line item I think that people can stand to save the most on.
And last times it's just this assumption that I think I it's time to upgrade the car.
It's like four years old.
Right. And the truth is, like, with what's happened with car prices, with what's happened with interest rates, cars are more expensive than they they've ever been.
And the same is true when it comes to insurance costs.
So there are all of these things stacked against you when it comes to car ownership and how much it's going to cost you a significant portion of the American public spends a thousand dollars or more for a single car.
Every single month.
And I think you can slash those costs significantly.
And that's particularly true in the work from home era.
So if you're talking about, yeah, the Apple TV subscription, when I cut that, I'm going to save eight dollars a month.
But if I can slash my car costs by a whole lot more than that and just thinking about the trade offs involved in that, it's like, well, how much am I actually going to miss that car?
Especially when I only drive it once or twice a week versus the things I can do with the massive pile of cash I'll have back in my life if I do make a big change like that.
And that's something that we've got a little more room to have movement on.
Right. Like when it comes to when you are looking at the biggest line items on our budgets every single month, housing is at the top.
But not many folks are going to say, OK, hey, we're really trying to cut back.
Let's go ahead and sell the house and move to a more affordable neighborhood.
Let's move out to the sticks.
Let's let's move in with your with your parents.
Wouldn't that allow us to save a ton of money?
Let's go to Thailand, even like that would be a big change for the New Year.
Yes, for sure. Typically have that kind of flexibility.
But when it comes to vehicles like, yes, because oftentimes they are providing us typically more than just that A to B transportation.
We do find a part of our ego, a part of our identity tied up in the vehicles that we drive.
And especially given the fact that these are crazy expensive, depreciating assets.
The man we really hate financing vehicles because you are paying interest on something that is going down in value.
And so, yeah, I'm just going to second what Joel said here about finding ways to cut your transportation costs.
Excellent. But you guys will be happy to know I am driving a 2011 car.
Yeah. And I'm not even just driving.
I'm sharing it with my teenage son.
So he actually has it at school right now.
So I'm kind of just going to my home office.
That's amazing. I love it.
You ever get in the car and you're like, what radio station am I listening to?
I know. He's like, what is this?
It doesn't play anything.
Although, you know, there's also the craziness of it doesn't help you park either, which sometimes that's not a good thing.
The old technologies.
Yeah, they don't. The fact that your car can self park now is incredible, but I probably won't experience that for another decade.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
All right. Well, we're going to take one more quick break and then we'll be back with a little bit more from Joel and Matt.
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Well, we are back. I am talking all things money and also productivity with Joel and Matt.
So, Matt, I want to talk about a little exercise.
You did. Oh, that's right.
Productivity was not not the exercise lifting weights that you're doing.
Back to exercise again.
Not exercise. Now we can we can be done talking about exercise now.
But at one point, you drew up a calendar.
I think of what you called Matt's perfect week.
That's true. Talk about what what that is and why other people might consider maybe not creating Matt's perfect week, but their own perfect.
You've got a good memory, Laura.
Yes, this was a separate.
So within Gmail, I created a whole.
It was another calendar that I decided I wanted to see where my time was going.
And so it wasn't just a way for me to account for every minute, not literally every minute, but every I will say every 15 minute chunk.
But it was a way for me to prove to myself that I did, in fact, have the ability to do all the different things that I was oftentimes finding myself saying that I didn't have time to do.
And so it included all aspects of my life.
So it included time for my own intellectual growth.
It included me at that point in time I was running.
So it included time for me, in fact, to go work out, but then also time to spend with others.
So there is a slot there that included relationship.
Obviously, work was a big part of that as well.
But I think for me, it was the relationship aspect.
And so what I mean by that is time spent with others.
And because oftentimes I found myself saying no to things that were coming up, I'm really good at saying no, probably better than I should be.
Yeah. Joel's like, man, you are so heartless and cold, but I'm just like, I'm very protective of my time.
But what I found was that, man, I wonder if I do actually have time to do this.
And so by pre -scheduling a bunch of different items throughout the week, I was essentially able to create Matt's perfect week.
And I could see that, oh, wow, look at this.
I'm running three times a week.
Oh, wow. Look, I've got time where I am devoting like an hour every other day to me being able to read and dive into a novel.
Oh, look, there's a couple of times on here.
Not only am I able to once a week go out with my wife and have a great date night, but to also meet up with a buddy and grab beers.
That was it was very eye opening for me because what I found was that I could no longer I did no longer have the excuse to say, well, I don't have the time.
It's like, no, no, no, I've proved to myself that I've that I do now have time.
And granted, there's always things that come up, right?
They're like they're the unaccounted for random quasi emergencies that are weeks are full of those things.
But I don't know. I found that to be incredibly helpful.
And it's not like I actually stick to that today.
Right. It's not like I'm looking at my week and I'm accounting for every 15 minute block.
But it does help me to say that, oh, no, I do in fact have the ability to make some of these different activities a priority if they actually are important to me.
Yeah. So just thinking about how this might work.
So you put in like when you need to work to run your business, like when you're hanging out with your kids, when you have child care responsibilities, when you are doing your housework, the other things you want to do.
And then let's say you see Tuesday night after 8 p .m.
is still you're just hanging out.
Right. And you say like, well, that's the night I could go out with a friend if I wanted to.
Exactly. Yeah, that's that's exactly right.
And so, I mean, it's I don't know, maybe it's similar to block scheduling, but the ability to have these events on there.
And what's cool about Google Calendar, at least when it feeds into to Apple's calendar, that's how we do it.
I've got my Gmail calendars and they feed into iCal or calendar or whatever.
But sometimes when I was feeling a little discouraged, I could reach over and turn that calendar on and it would overlay what I could, in fact, be doing with my time instead of feeling like, oh, I don't have any enough time in the week.
It was like literal proof that I did, in fact, have that time.
Yeah, I love this idea of creating a realistic ideal week.
So it's still, you know, you're not quitting your job.
You're not like suddenly able to fly.
I mean, it's life as it is, but life showing you at your best and what could.
Yes, it was within the confines of the current responsibilities that I had.
It's just there's a whole lot of nooks and crannies here where there's a whole lot of wasted time.
Like an English muffin.
English muffin, yes.
Time is one giant English muffin sometimes.
So Joel, we always talk in this show about little ways we have taken our days from great to awesome.
I wonder if you have done anything recently that has made one of your days more awesome.
The thing that has changed my days and our family's days the most is eradicating screens and TV Monday through Thursday all day, every day.
And part of that is for me, I don't even think about it, but then my kids have stopped asking about it.
It's that sort of pestering thing that sometimes gets you.
You're like, no, I don't think we're going to do it today.
Whereas like now the rule is like, no, we're not doing it at all.
And so then they don't even ask the question anymore.
And it even just reduces the amount of TV we watch on the weekend evenings too.
And so Friday night, pizza movie night, we're watching something every, every Friday night typically.
But we just watch a whole lot less TV in general.
It's kind of made it so much easier to relate to my kids when it comes to like how we're talking about that stuff.
And yeah, I watch so much less TV than I even used to.
So I think eliminating TV during the weekdays has been the way to take all those days, make them instead of great being awesome.
And what are your kids kind of doing to entertain themselves during their downtime?
Because I think that's what a lot of families stumble over is like, well, especially these days, is it's getting dark in the evening after school?
I mean, my kids get home and it's like dark 30 minutes later.
It is the hardest at this time of year.
But like last night, truly the girls put on roller skates and we're out in the driveway roller skating, even in the dark.
Like we got the floodlight on and we're having a great time just because like we know we got to find something else to do or they have started to play maybe with some of the toys that got neglected for a little while.
The ones you bought for Christmas.
Exactly exactly. And so yeah, for the first week or something, you hear a lot of cries of I'm bored.
I don't know what to do.
But quickly, they figured out that they'll get a friend from down the street or they end up playing with each other.
They kind of they come up with the most cute and interesting games, but it's because they're forced to be creative instead of just turning a screen on.
Excellent. Matt, how about you?
I will sort of dovetail into what I was saying maybe about taking time at the end of the year to kind of look back at the previous year, especially with a partner.
So I will say that on a daily basis, my wife and I, we try to go for a 15 to 20 minute walk after dinner while the kids clear the table and clean up and start to get ready for bed.
It's just a way for us to have some adult grown up conversation to be able to step away from the kids and honestly to have like some parenting conversations sometimes, too, because I feel like meal time can oftentimes it's just so difficult sometimes.
And so it's like, all right, how did that go?
Should we have done something differently in that in that instance?
And so that's something that we've pretty much always done.
But lately, every Sunday, we have taken a hike like we go for about a one hour hike.
And it's it's real similar to what we do on a daily basis, except for we're doing it for the week.
We kind of talk about, all right, we just had a busy week.
Let's unpack some things.
If there's any tension like boiling under the surface, maybe it allows us it gives us time to discuss that, allows us to do something together where we're both hiking up this mountain, which is a ton of fun that we both enjoy.
But then also to start the week on on the right foot as well, where we're looking ahead and we're able to kind of reconnect and maybe we're not even planning, right?
Sometimes it is planning and talking through some of the schedule as we're hiking, but sometimes it's just sharing how we feel about something.
So it's just a great connection point from a relational standpoint with my wife and I.
And at least for us in this stage of life, our oldest is eleven.
And we feel the freedom to do that because she's getting to the age where, oh, my gosh, I'm realizing there's this whole, wow, this is a we're we're we're graduating to like a different level.
It's completely changed the game.
And we're realizing that we have the the autonomy to be able to do some of this.
And so we're taking advantage of it.
And it's been such a sweet time for us to strengthen our relationship and ultimately do a better job as parents as well.
And also get out of having the parenting because he makes the kids do it.
I know that's even better.
I mean, this dividend of the kids getting old enough to do stuff and to watch each other.
I mean, when I realized I had like three live in babysitters all of a sudden.
I was like, wow, I'm it makes life so much more like I'm going to write another book.
Let's do it. Well, or even I can go to the grocery store and I'm not like, OK, where is everybody?
Are they all in the car?
All that good stuff.
All right. Well, guys, this has been great.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Everyone be sure to check out Joel and Matt on How to Money, which airs multiple times a week.
Also through I Heart Media.
Thank you to everyone for listening.
If you have feedback about this or about other episodes, I would love to hear it.
You can always reach me at Laura at Laura VanderKam .com.
And in the meantime, this is Laura.
Thanks for listening.
And here's to making the most of our time.
Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast.
If you've got questions, ideas or feedback, you can reach me at Laura at Laura VanderKam .com.
Before Breakfast is a production of I Heart Media.
For more podcasts from I Heart Media, please visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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