Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable.
You're listening to Roundtable with myself Hi Young.
I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Yu Shan in the studio.
Coming up, can't make it yourself?
Hire a stand -in. In the fast -paced lives of young people these days, sometimes it's easier to pay someone else to complete experiences for them.
What's driving young consumers to turn everyday joys into outsourced tasks?
And have you noticed WeChat's new feature of live photos where your snapshots burst into life with sound and motion, making every moment feel vibrant and exciting?
Why don't people either love or hate this new feature already?
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Now let's shift gears.
Too busy to jog? Let someone else run literally for you from unboxing blind boxes to running miles for fitness challenges.
Young people are outsourcing experiences.
This stand -in economy is shaping up in unexpected ways.
So whether it's exploring, assembling, or tasting, let's dive into what's behind this trend.
What constitutes the stand -in economy?
Oh my, I was so astonished when I first read about this.
So young consumers apparently are paying others to experience with them or even on behalf of them on certain experiences.
So there is a new word for it called the stand -in economy, like He Yang you just mentioned, and here's an example of it.
So during China's National Day holiday, an increasing number of tourists hire part -time climbing companions, and mostly they are just university students who are trying to earn a bit of money during their vacations, I mean holidays, and these young people, they offer their service to just help navigate
the map for them or just provide emotional support like cheering them up when they feel tired on their way up to the mountain, you know, and they give snacks, they help you to take care of your toddlers and babies, and essentially they're like, well, a helper to your journey, and also they provide you
with anything you might need during that journey.
And these people, they, well, their service is not really that high -charging if you look at the price, because according to the data here, costs of hiring such a personnel only takes like 300 to 500 yuan, which is approximately 40 to 70 US dollars per trip.
So, and in the meantime, it's in high demand here in China as well.
Really, I'm so surprised.
It makes me sound like a cheapskate but I'm going to say it anyway, 300 yuan?
I'm not paying for this.
It's pricey. Well, 300 might be the lower end, it goes up to 500 you said.
This one, and we're going to go through some different examples where my reaction will be, what?
But with this one, I kind of get it.
You know, if you're going hiking with your family and you've got a couple of kids and you're new to the mountain, you don't know where you're going, you don't know any information about it, hiring a local student who will take your pictures for you, carry your snacks for you, help to take care of the kids,
as you mentioned. It's kind of like a guide, in a sense.
If you're hiring a guide, it's going to take much more than just 300 to 500 yuan.
I've been so out of this world.
What? So, this one I kind of get.
But can I just add one more small thing, that taking care of your kids and allowing some college student to do that, it depends on maybe how old the kids are.
Sorry to bring in entertainment a little bit, but what is her name?
Nicole Kidman. She started in this TV series last year or the year before, Can't Remember, called Ex -Pats or Diplomats, Can't Remember.
Anyway, the key piece of that TV show was this lady's child died in the care of some caregiver who was not licensed.
She just found some young college graduate and said, oh, I can take care of your kid when they went on a tour.
And then the kid sadly passed away.
Anyway, so, I mean, giving away the reins to look after your kids, especially if they're young, yeah, I would have second thoughts about this.
I think it's a lot of responsibility.
But if it's somebody who's a pro in doing this, then I think 300 to 500 yuan.
Yes. Okay. That's qualified.
I think here, it's not referring to something so extreme as take care of you 24 -7.
It's really just helping you to hold them when you're tired yourself.
And plus, the parents are on the trip with you this whole time.
So, yeah, sure. There's less of a chance for extreme cases, but you're right.
It's okay. So then let's talk about the other stranger types of stand -in economy because some of them really just make me scratch my head a lot.
This is my favorite one.
Stand -in drinking milk tea.
What is that? So milk, pardon me, milk tea brands, they'll collaborate with other brands to launch new products.
And sometimes it's difficult for a milk tea lover to catch the latest project when they're on a business trip or when they're on a diet or when they're busy at the office or whatever, right?
So what they do is they hire a stand -in drinker.
Drink, on behalf of you services have emerged, which means that buying designated co -branded products for customers, and then you record the experience so that I, I don't have the opportunity to drink the milk tea, I hire someone else, and then I watch a video, I guess, of them drinking the tea on my
behalf. You know what this sounds like to me?
It sounds like these people who are paying for other people to drink their milk tea is trying to get involved and participate into this whole campaign by getting the video as a way of maybe just satisfy their emotional needs for it.
Understand what the motivation is here.
You know, in the meantime, it reminds me of, you know, I can post this later on on the social media as a way of proving that I'm part of this too, even though I'm not there to drink it.
Yeah, this is this one I don't, I don't get.
I get the hiking example, this one I don't really get at all.
I don't get at all either.
Or maybe just the thought that the 150 calories are now in the belly of that person in the video who I hired.
And you're like living vicariously through this stranger, but you're paying them to do it.
And you're paying for the tea as well.
That I don't really understand because you're missing out on the key part of the experience, right?
And all right, and there are some other ones.
Maybe they make a little bit more sense to you or not.
Hiring someone to go through the unboxing of a new product.
I thought the thrill is the moment when you unbox.
There are a category of videos on social media devoted to just that moment.
How does this one work?
Having someone unbox for you?
So basically consumers place orders through live streaming platforms.
And then the the anchor of that live streaming will unbox on site and shows the result in real time to tell you, oh, you ordered this box.
This is what's inside.
Oh, it makes a little bit more sense now because they're blind box.
Can you explain what blind boxes are?
You're buying something but you don't know what's inside.
Yeah, that's a perfect directional explanation definition of what blind boxes.
So you buy something that's within certain series or categories of products that you have in general idea of what it might be, but you don't know what exactly it looks like or which shape or which, you know, like style it's in.
So you just some people just buy the whole entire series and open them one by one in order to collect the whole series.
But people like me who is not really so crazy about this unboxing blind box thing.
I just get one and unbox it and realize, oh, that's cute.
Oh, I got one of these instead of one of that.
Maybe I want them more.
Maybe I can buy a new one.
That's the charm of unboxing.
So it's kind of like a controlled lottery system of getting good.
This one's for people who have zero patience or like minus one because you order a blind box, you can't even wait for it to come to the house to unbox it yourself.
You just have to know immediately what's inside.
Okay. That sounds like a pretty niche market.
And what about the stand in role in terms of jogging, going to the gym, doing all these sports things.
So you aren't, so the person who's paying for this service is not actually exercising or paying somebody else to do it.
Is that what's happening?
Apparently it points to people hiring other people to run on their behalf.
And the charges are based on running distance and time requirements.
So yeah, the longer you run, the bigger price you're paid.
Yeah. Because sometimes these sports apps that people will sign up for, they have tasks that need to be completed, right?
You and people I guess are feeling the pressure to complete those tasks, but for one reason or another, maybe they don't want to do it.
Maybe they're feeling lazy.
Maybe they woke up late.
Maybe they're too busy or on a business trip.
They're getting other people to do it for them to complete those fitness tasks.
Okay, it's just amazing to see how young people are coming up with new ideas to earn money.
Okay, so you're assuming the younger person is the one that's providing the service and whoever, I mean, whoever's paying for this stuff, I need to know that person.
It sounds like - What's the motivation here, right?
Yeah. But also, can I please add one more of these examples and we'll definitely get into the whys.
There's one more stand in economy example that I find to be weird, is you pay someone to assemble a Lego set for you, put together a puzzle for you.
I mean, so you just want the end result.
Yeah, right. Okay, so that's apparently part of the stand -in economy.
Again, that one makes a little tiny bit of sense to me because maybe you do enjoy the end Lego product or the puzzle and you see it as kind of art, but you don't enjoy the process of going through the creation of that art, then you just get somebody else to do it.
Okay, in light of all these a little bit understandable, a little bit strange things that we've sort of walked through off this list, why do you think people are shelling money on this?
Sometimes it's just about what would struck me as if sometimes people just aim for certain outcomes regardless how they get to that outcomes, especially for younger generations.
Sometimes we just don't really necessarily have to be there in person in order to get certain results like miles on the treadmill.
For example, if someone's willing to just put together the Lego set of Sauron from Lord of the Ring, the whole set for me, I'm willing to pay for that.
How much are you willing to pay for it?
I mean, here, I guess they charge based on the set and also the delivery time that's asked by the customers and also the difficulty of it, so I don't know, maybe 500 to a thousand?
I mean, I kind of get that one and I get the standing in line for you if you're too busy and a new shoe comes out or something like that.
They have these services in the West as well.
You hire somebody to go stand in a line for you.
I even, I'm reaching a little bit, but I even get the stand in jogging one.
If you're regularly reaching your fitness goals and there's some sort of, I don't know, punishment or something, if you don't reach it on one particular day, so you just get somebody to do it temporarily, okay, I get it.
I get it. It's like a one -time fix type thing.
So why would people do this?
It saves them time.
It saves them effort.
If they happen to be really, really busy in their own lives or they just don't have the patience for one particular thing, then I think that's the motivation for the consumers to go through with something like this.
Yeah, and sometimes it comes with controversies as well, I believe, because I was reading that one particular area, which is about playing games under, well, using your account and for you, it's like leveling up for you in the games.
You hire somebody else to get you past a level that you can't get past yourself.
Yeah, personally, I can just imagine how helpful that is because I face numerous fights that I wish I'm helped by some pros to win it and get to the next storyline.
But here is the controversy that once you give your account to someone and there's money involved, like trading involved on hiring people in that process, there's legal conflicts or things that you can't sort out happening in between.
And that's why, on a lot of the, at least here in China, I see a lot of game institutions and game companies labeling it clearly that it's not allowed for players to trade their account with other people just for leveling up.
And I think that's a good way, especially if it's adolescent or just teenagers or younger children who is playing the game there and don't know better and just want to level up as fast as they can.
And in the meantime, think they hire someone, but it can be a con that they're getting into.
And a lot of these games actually ban kids from playing.
And there are some pretty strict regulations in China in terms of the time to play, to game for adolescents.
And, yeah, that's been going on for a few years.
And I think we've seen some pretty positive results coming from it.
What about the, I don't know, legal ramifications of someone else constructing your Lego tower or what have you or your furniture?
They have those services in the West.
Someone will come and build your sofa for you.
What happens if they damage it?
Right? If you've spent a lot of money on this Lego set or this new sofa or what have you, and you hire someone else to build it for you, and they damage it in the process, then what happens then?
Who's responsible at that point?
Just like my earlier question, if you're looking after the kid and something happens with the kid, well, it's a huge legal responsibility.
So, is there kind of a gray area right now in terms of - I believe so, yeah.
And they don't even sign an agreement or contract.
No, but some service providers would charge a deposit from the customers who pay to have their Lego put together.
So, just to make sure that after I put it together for you, you need to pay me to get this stuff because I'm not doing this for myself, so a deposit is required.
But the other way around, I'm not sure, like you mentioned, that's a huge gray area.
There's an app in the United States called Task Rabbit, and they'll do almost anything for you.
They'll go buy your groceries or clean your house or help you move house or something like that.
And all the potential taskers, that's what they call them, the people who do these things for you, they've been interviewed and they've had their identities checked.
And each job is backed by what they call a happiness pledge.
So, if something goes wrong, the company will consider offering up to, and that's the key point, up to $10 ,000 should something go very wrong.
For example, if a tasker damages your property or hurts you or steals from you or whatever the case might be, then the company is there to back you up.
Right. And that kind of service, and also platforms that offer this kind of service, is plenty in China.
And that's an interesting thing to bring up, Steve, because, yeah, I didn't really, you know, match the two.
Yeah, we have platforms who offer this kind of service, but you've also got this vibrant stand -in economy that's also operating at the same time.
One last question regarding this topic, though.
Do you think that there is something missing when people just, and they can so easily find other folks to help them out to stand in?
So, instead of you actually going through their journey, you're paying for someone to do it for you and wait for you at the finish line.
Is there something, are we missing something in this process?
You mean human beings in general, from the consumer point of view?
I guess so. I mean...
Or just as a human being.
Well, we look at these things and we're kind of, even as we discuss it here on the show, we're kind of feeling like, this is stupid.
But these are other people who are actually doing these types of things.
So, we can sit here and say, we can have our own opinions all we want.
It might not be something that we would do, but just because it's not something that we would do, doesn't mean it's not something that someone else would do.
And therefore, I don't think we can say it's weird.
I think it's just people have their own motivations for their own reasons.
There's an existing market for this, and it's a big enough market that it's made it a topic for us to discuss on Roundtable.
Right? Yeah. And apart from that, I think it has something to do with people's priorities with the things that they do.
Because sometimes, if you're aiming for an outcome instead of the process of reaching to that outcome, then sparing some money is just the easiest way of achieving a goal, just like doing work or just anything else in the world.
So it may seem absurd at one point that people are showing skeptical against these.
But yeah, for those people, if they reach those outcomes, if that's their priority of doing this thing in the beginning, then yeah, it's worth it for them.
I just worry a little bit that outsourcing experiences can dilute the personal joy and fulfillment that come from directly engaging in some of these activities, making the experience feel less genuine.
And let's just say, here's this girl, my dream girl, and I'm hiring somebody else to pursue her.
Is that one of the stand -in services?
I'm now getting all philosophical, you know?
And okay, that's just beyond bizarre if you end up being with her.
But I just think that during that arduous journey, it could be kind of tedious, but in some aspects in life, I think it's necessary to get us to the destination and feel that that's where I'm qualified and deserve to be.
Coming up next, get ready to snap, share, and shine with WeChat's new Life Photos feature.
It lets you post lively images with sound.
But why is it that some people love it or hate it already?
Stay tuned. Looking for passion?
How about fiery debate?
Want to hear about current events in China from different perspectives?
Then tune in to Roundtable, where East meets West and understanding is the goal.
Is the Hour Roundtable with myself Heu Yang.
I'm joined by Yuxian and Steve Hatherly in the studio.
WeChat, China's largest messaging app, Turd Super app, has just dropped an exciting new feature.
You can now share live photos in your moments.
While Android users are still waiting for their turn, the buzz around this feature has exploded.
Live photos have been around for nearly a decade, but the chatter really took off in the days following the announcement in China.
Some adventurous users jumped right in, only to find themselves locked out of their chat history after reinstalling WeChat.
And let's not forget the hilarious moments when users were caught off guard by the sounds that accompany live photos.
Awkwardness ensued.
So who's loving it, and who's hating it already?
Well, at least I can tell that many iOS system users are loving it as they can't use it, comparing with Android users of certain phone modules as well.
Personally, I have never tried sending a live photo in my WeChat moments yet, but I've seen people sharing on their moments.
And for me, the viewing experience is kind of complicated as a way that I, when I just want to see a picture, I expect to see a picture within just maybe like very short glance and that's all, but instead I'm given a live photo, aka a small, tiny video of sort.
Two, three second video, Max, right?
These aren't long videos at all, but they are in video format.
Featuring sound, people talking in the background and shaking, shooting angles and stuff.
So yeah, why am I looking at that when I just want to watch pictures?
See pictures. What about you, Steve?
I was looking at our dear Yushun's live pictures in the office earlier today, and I didn't enjoy them.
Not because of Yushun's...
Sorry Yushun. No, it has nothing to do with Yushun personally.
It's the sound thing that you already mentioned.
We work in a relatively quiet office, and Yushun was like, oh yeah, I put some live photos on my WeChat.
So I went and I opened it up and the office is quiet.
And all of a sudden you just click on the picture and then you hear this like, the whole office stops and turns and looks.
So I was like, oh, sorry, sorry.
That's the thing that I don't like about these is that yeah, you're totally caught off guard when they're really noisy.
I think I've cracked the code as to why people are loving this and why they're hating it.
I think the people that are loving it are the people that are doing it themselves.
So when they're doing it themselves, they're happy to look at other people's attempts at live photos because they know they're trying and they want to see what other people are trying too.
So I get that. Why people are hating it is because people are still figuring out how to effectively take a live photo so that it's aesthetically pleasing, so that the sound and the video works well together with the lighting and the theme or what have you.
I think people are still trying to figure that out.
So you've got a bunch of amateurs essentially trying this new tool out so the videos don't look great so far.
Plus you get the sound element and that's why some people are annoyed by it.
That's my guess. Right.
And what benefits does WeChat expect to gain by introducing live photos?
The company must feel this is a great feature otherwise why would they roll it out, right?
I mean it definitely captures attention as we've already discussed previously.
Like live photos put right there is already an engaging experience to have you as if you're jumping inside that photo and experience what the person taking that photo was experiencing upon that shot was taking.
So it's definitely like a dynamic experience for you to get more engaging, get a full experience.
But on the other hand I guess yeah not everyone is looking into getting such an immersive experience into other people's moments.
Yeah it's a double -edged sword.
I mean from WeChat's point of view it gives them a little bit of a competitive edge, right?
It allows it to differentiate itself from its competitors and it gets people talking and therefore you could attract new customers.
But again that's a double -edged sword because if the thing that's getting people talking is annoying people well that might not be the attention that you want but there's no doubt that everybody's talking about it these days.
Do you think that this might change the way that people share content on this platform or maybe they would like to do it elsewhere?
Yes I do because I think that it is new and people are having fun with it now and that's why some people like it and some people don't but people are going to keep trying to get better and better at it.
Or just ditch it. Or throw it away but the users that continue with it will get better and better at taking these live videos and I think it will influence how people share their moments in the future.
And Steve didn't you say like right before the show or something like that in the English -speaking social media world live photos have been around for a long long long long long time.
So you would regularly see live photos on?
You see them everywhere.
If you get the storyline enriched why not?
I just don't want to get vertigo.
Simple as that people be kind.
And that brings us to the end of today's show.
Thank you so much Steve and Yushan for joining the discussion.
I'm her Young. We'll see you next time.
