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That's odoo .com. I'm Samin Nosrat.
And I'm Rishi K. Shirwe.
And we're home cooking.
Or as the case may be this week, not cooking.
We're home eating. Listen, we're like in week 40 bajillion of...
Week 40 bajillion, that's always the week when things...
everyone can take a week off yeah yeah listen even we're allowed to not cook during the pandemic i've eaten so much dried mango this week i can't even tell you in the spirit of not cooking but also in the spirit of happy things i have a question for you sumit this week is halloween uh -huh what is your number one halloween candy okay okay okay i've never been ready My off the street trick or treat candy is Reese's peanut butter cups.
Great. Okay. I'm just talking to you salty, sweet, salty, sweet situation.
Love it. Also, when I wrote my like candy story for the New York times magazine a few years ago that almost killed me, it nearly killed me in this candy story.
I went so deep on my candy reporting and I learned that the Reese's peanut butter cup is so salty.
it's saltier than it is sweet actually it's so salty if you actually just close your eyes and taste it the first thing you taste is salt not sugar which is maybe why i love it so much yeah is there any acid in a reese's peanut butter cup yeah chocolate is acidic yeah so you might call it a salt fat acid treat a salt fat acid treat not even gonna like raise my chin up But my true favorite candy of all time, which is not so often found in the trick or treat situation, but really like how exciting would it be if it could, is the Sour Haribo.
Specifically, sour streamers or sour skeddy.
Okay, so you're not saying Haribo gummy bears.
No, no, no. Other shapes.
Yes, the other shapes are actually preferable because they have a higher proportion of sour to chewy.
Because the sour is like a topical application and there's a greater surface area on the streamer?
Correct. There's more surface area.
Yes. And the streamer is my preferable texture because the streamer is a different texture than gummy.
It's like made with something else that's not the same stuff as the gummy.
How would anybody ever experience this in a trick -or -treat situation?
I'm not exactly sure.
Like maybe a desperate neighbor just like went to Walgreens.
That's and so a neighbor has forgotten to buy maybe like a desperate neighbor cleared the shelves of all the sour streamers and then generously trick -or -treat gave them out i don't know because that's even more than like the full candy bar i just needed to proclaim to the world my top two candies okay sour streamers all right and rhesus so in your mode as fancy celebrity oh i actually do have a writer i do have a writer i do yeah like if one of my like speaking events but I know myself too well so I do not ask for anything unhealthy on there I only ask for healthy stuff because otherwise I would be
like eating an entire bag of Doritos and an entire bag of sour stream yeah yeah like it would be so bad yeah yeah once again welcome to home cooking we are however many minutes in and have not talked about no cooking this is episode 11 of whatever the hell this has become okay rishi you tell me now what's your preferred halloween candy situation you know okay i think my ideal halloween candy doesn't actually exist but it would be amounts crossed with an almond joy oh like less almond you mean no no have the almond in dark chocolate oh dark chocolate almond joy would that be good that sounds like
that would be totally good yeah i think so i love almond joys so much i love the combination of coconut and almond I love the combination of coconut and chocolate.
I love the combination of chocolate and almond.
So it's really, it's a Venn diagram of three combinations.
It totally exists. This just comes in a brown wrapper.
It's called dark chocolate Almond Joy.
Dark chocolate Almond Joy.
I'm going to buy it for you right now.
Thank you. Send it with my banana bread.
I only recently found out that Almond Joys are maybe not as popular, that people don't like Almond Joys.
I feel like I know that.
I know that. What are people's problem?
What is the problem?
What is the problem here?
I'm just going to hold on.
I've got to play a bit of Karen.
What is the problem here?
Karen rules. Anyway, Almond Joys are so good.
Oh my gosh. No, my experience is that there are a lot of people out there who don't like nuts in things.
They like nuts fine.
They don't like nuts in things.
Huh. I thought it would be the coconut that was the thing that people had an issue with.
I think Mounds and Almond Joy are not two of the most popular candy bars.
Well, that's fine. More for me.
Unfortunately, in the seven Halloweens that I've spent in this house, I have never once gotten a trick -or -treater.
Really? All these previous years and you've never gotten a trick -or -treater?
Not even one. But I always, with a sense of optimism, go to the store and get a few things.
Get a whole bunch of Almond Joy.
Almond Joys, Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, Kit Kat, Twix.
Lindsay's a Snickers fan.
So some combination of those and put them by the door ready to hand out.
And then inevitably not one child.
Wow. But speaking of children, let's turn to our first question.
Oh, okay. This comes from somebody you actually know.
Oh. Hi, Simeon and Carla.
This is Eliza. I just turned nine this week.
As you know, we're living up in the Hindukush Mountains in Chitral, Pakistan, in a conservancy area for snow leopards and marhor.
We're doing a lot of cooking and baking with my family, mainly my mother.
But I had a question for you.
Because we're raising our own chickens because they're healthier than the ones you'd find in the bazaar.
But the only problem is that our chickens are skinnier and a little bit tougher than the other ones.
So do you have any suggestions, recipes or cooking techniques that will help us make it tastier?
Oh, that's my buddy, Eliza.
She's my best friend from college's daughter, and her sister, Roya.
So good to hear from you guys.
And they really live a special life in rural Pakistan.
So this is a good tip for anybody, not only if you're doing as they're doing and raising your own meat birds, but if you maybe are buying heritage birds from the farmer's market, or if you've subscribed to a CSA or also Thanksgiving is coming up and if you end up buying a heritage turkey, then sometimes those heritage turkeys can have tougher meat than the traditional broad -breasted white turkeys that we're used to cooking.
This is all sort of similar kind of advice that will work for it.
So because these sort of ultimate free -range pastured birds are not like fed these heavy carbohydrate diets and fattened up in quite the same ways and they're much more muscular they do have tougher meat and they will definitely benefit from a different kind of cooking that is more like stewing or braising but you could you don't have to make just you know pakistani cuisine you could make any sort of stew or braise or even like a pasta sauce, anything where you slow cook it in a pot and any sort of vegetables like onions and maybe garlic and carrots and some liquid, whether that's stock or water,
and just let it slow cook until it's falling off the bone.
That's really when you'll be able to pick it off the bone and let it sort of just turn into a delicious sauce that you eat over rice or over pasta.
I know your dad Dad loves fresh bread, so you can sop it up with fresh bread and yogurt, and that'll be how it'll be the most delicious.
Awesome. By the way, the email that Eliza's mom sent is so sweet.
First of all, she addressed it to me, and she said, Hi, Rushi Kesh.
I grew up in Southern California, and Samin was the very first person I met at Berkeley.
We both did our junior year abroad in the UK, which is where I met my husband -to -be.
Samin is the only non -family member who has visited me in Pakistan after I moved here.
I adore her beyond words, and our whole family has been listening to your podcast. So cute.
how sweet is that they're my buddies i love them so much but while we're in this moment of cuteness i'm just gonna keep it going here we go hi rishi and samin i have a question about broccoli my mom usually makes broccoli with garlic or roast it but me and my brother kind of getting tired of it so what are some other ways of making broccoli that's the cutest thing it's too cute It's too cute.
Who is that? That is Izzy.
She's five years old, and she's writing on behalf of her and her brother, Liam, who's seven.
Oh my gosh. Izzy and Liam.
That is the cutest thing I've ever heard. Their mom, Esther, says that, for the record, she also makes broccoli fritters, and she's put it on pizza with pesto, but I guess it doesn't cut it.
So any other kid -friendly broccoli ideas you got?
Okay. Ooh, I like this one.
Okay, mom. Esther, have you ever thought about turning the broccoli into the pesto?
So you would basically, in addition to, say, basil, you would throw the broccoli into the blender with your pine nuts?
Yeah, I think what I would do is just cut it up into small pieces, into florets, and blanch it in some salty water until it's just tender, and then add it into the blender or the food processor, either along with the basil or even without basil.
I think in the the winter you can make it just with broccoli and parmesan and pine nuts.
You can leave the basil out completely if you can't find any, or you can sneak a little basil in there if you can get your hands on some.
But it's just a slightly different, you know, like kale pesto's its own whole thing where people make kale pesto with just kale and no basil.
And I think you can absolutely make broccoli pesto as well.
Awesome. I had one idea.
Oh yeah. What's your idea?
It's not something that i've made myself but i have thought about it because i love quiche uh -huh but i'm a little intimidated to make an entire quiche and get it wrong and just you know the crust and everything it's a little bit beyond my comfort zone but one thing i have been thinking about is a little broccoli and cheese egg muffin like you make them in like muffin tins you mean exactly yeah you make it in muffin tins so you don't have to worry about a crust or anything like that it appeals to the kid and me to have this tiny little.
Little thing you can pick up and eat with your fingers.
Exactly. I love that.
I do love that. I would probably cook the broccoli first though, so that it's not going in raw.
Because with that, I would want the egg part to be just barely cooked, whereas the broccoli would still be raw, not get cooked.
So maybe you steam it?
Yeah, I would either steam it or just blanch it in some salty water, just until it's barely, barely tender.
I will say broccoli is kind of my go -to, and also rapini which is kind of i think of as like bitter broccoli broccoli that's been rejected a whole lot yeah that's i mean that's why i like it i feel really like a kinship with it i those are my go -to vegetables that i keep in the freezer when i started traveling for work a couple years ago like very regularly and coming home to empty refrigerators or just refrigerators filled with like rotting food I realized oh god I have to take better care of myself because otherwise all I'm ever going to be eating is like toast and cheese toast and cheese toast
and cheese and so I really got into the habit of making sure I had a well -stocked freezer filled with all sorts of good frozen vegetables so that when I did get home after a long trip I could always make myself a nice pasta or a soup with filled with vegetables or even just like So that I didn't have to rush out to the store every time my fridge got low.
And that has really saved me a lot of times.
And that mentality has been certainly helpful throughout this period.
So broccoli pasta, I would say like a cheesy broccoli pasta.
I can't imagine a child not enjoying that.
that. To me, cheese and broccoli are such best friends.
I do know a lot of kids who strangely are kind of averse to cheese, but I feel like if you as a kid like broccoli, you probably will be okay with cheese too.
So parmesan is a nice friend to broccoli.
So I think even just a delightful sort of broccoli that's been dunked into salty water and drizzled with olive oil and some grated Parmesan, as simple as that is really pleasing for some little people to pick up with their fingers.
Or big people, as Rishi seems to be drawn to that too.
Yeah. Oh my gosh. Parmesan, broccoli, egg, muffin.
Maybe I'll try it. I think you totally should.
I think that's within my skills.
What I would do is I would whisk together some eggs, finely grate the Parmesan.
If you have a microplane grater.
I know at your house, you don't use very many rich dairy products, but if you found yourself with a spoonful of cream or sour cream, I would add that in there because that's going to buy you a little bit of margin for error in the baking.
It's just going to make it a little bit more, it's going to get you a little more custardy texture in the baking.
And then I would butter or grease the muffin cups and then pour that custard in and then place your cooked broccoli in there.
And then maybe if you have another kind of cheese, like a meltier kind of cheese, like a little piece of cheddar or Monterey Jack or something.
Put little cubes of that.
So you get two textures of cheeses and two flavors of cheeses.
What a treat. Yeah, that sounds great.
And then you could even put like little grated cheese on top.
So you get that browning on top.
Oh yeah. All right.
I'm going to try it.
Do it. Related to the broccoli and cheese idea, maybe.
I don't know. I don't want to answer for you.
We got this question from Ashley.
So thanks to COVID, I now live with two wonderful cooks, my mother, who makes the best authentic Spanish food, and my sister, who can whip up meals like beef bolognese and other fancy treats I really can't pronounce.
I, on the other hand, only have my homemade mac and cheese to bring to the table.
So what I was wondering is if you have any advice on how to make a real showstopper mac and cheese that can compete with my talented family.
Thanks. Okay. I don't think the answer is broccoli.
The thing about mac and cheese is it's so personal.
People really have like nostalgia and family.
There's just like so many personal opinions.
Like, do you want to describe for me what your ideal mac and cheese is, Rishi?
I mean, for me, it really is just like, my sister could make the best mac and cheese.
It's just craft just out of the box you know but it was great that's what you love yeah so i mean i love a box one and then i really love like a very well -made creamy delicious one that's homemade with a delicious bechamel sauce oh wow and you know the breadcrumbs on top and the like contrast of the crispy crunchy breadcrumbs and the creamy comforting sauce oh yeah that's something i got introduced to much later and i was like oh i didn't even know this could mac and cheese could be like this.
Totally. But I will say one of my problems with homemade mac and cheese is if people make it wrong or they get it wrong or something happens to the white sauce, to the bechamel sauce in the oven and it's, and it breaks or it splits apart and then it becomes grainy or greasy.
Or if you don't use the right cheese, if it's not sharp enough cheese, I don't feel like you get that like cheesy taste it just kind of looks orange but doesn't taste cheesy you know yeah so to me the things that i have figured out over time are it's important to use a variety of cheeses like i think some parmesan is really good in there i think you want to use something a little bit on the stinkier side like a gruyere or fontina and those are both good too because they have a good sort of melty pulley thing that that happens like the stringy goodness yeah yeah i do like the orange color.
So I like having some cheddar in there too for the orange, but because I always want there to be some nice sharpness, I would go for a very sharp cheddar.
But I've noticed that cheddars tend to do the separation and have the graininess.
So something I learned during COVID, and this might be something you're not comfortable with, Ashley, and this might not be what you're going for.
But this is my own mac and cheese journey that I've been on during COVID.
So I'm very excited to share this with you.
I have definitely watched like my share of, you know, cooking videos during this time.
And I spent some time watching some of Kenji Lopez -Alt's GoPro videos.
Early in the thing, he had like his GoPro stuck to his head, and he was cooking late at night, and he was making this grilled cheese in his kitchen.
And I learned this thing, because he always works like science facts into his cooking.
And so he was making a a grilled cheese sandwich and he mixed his cheeses which i always do and he used a slice of american cheese along with a bunch of other kinds of cheeses and the reason he used the slice of american cheese is because the american cheese has an additive called sodium citrate in it and one of my favorite things about american cheese is that it melts into that like perfectly even like glossy texture and so he explained in the video that even just the tiny bit of sodium citrate in that slice slice of American cheese as it melts into that grilled cheese sandwich, it will help
all of the cheeses in the grilled cheese sandwich melt in this perfect way so that when he slices his grilled cheese, it gets that classic diner meltiness rather than the kind of separation that I'm describing.
So once Kenji mentioned this sodium citrate, I couldn't get it out of my mind.
And So I just bought a jar of sodium citrate and you can just mix a tiny bit of sodium citrate into your mac and cheese.
There are a bunch of recipes for it.
This is like one of those molecular gastronomy tricks.
And that's how Velveeta cheese is made.
So you can make essentially your own homemade Velveeta or your own homemade nacho cheese out of any quality cheese that you want using like the highest quality cheddar, whatever like delicious quality, like amazing cheeses that you buy at the store.
but get that incredible incredible creamiest texture with just like you just use a tiny tiny pinch of sodium citrate and all you do is you just basically add this sodium citrate into the pot and you melt it with a little bit of water and the cheese and it turns into before your very eyes it turns into essentially velveta cheese sauce but like highbrow velveta yeah using whatever whatever mixture of delicious, delicious, fanciest cheeses.
And then you mix that with your par cooked noodles.
You know, I buy like bronze dye extruded fancy pastas.
Then you put them in your casserole and then you cover that with your whatever breadcrumbs, or if you want to use panko that you've like tossed with butter.
And then you throw that in the oven and you get out comes this thing where people are going to be like, I don't understand.
How did you get this this texture, and this flavor out of a home kitchen.
It seems impossible.
And you will never tell them your secret, but it's sodium citrate.
I feel like this could be a game changer for a lot of people.
I hope you like this trick.
If you don't like it, I would say look for our classic bechamel recipe.
And if you do need one, I tested bechamel recipes a bunch of times this year and really perfected mine in my big lasagna for the New York Times.
And we will link to that in the recipes as well.
So that's a way that you can sort of make a base special melon, work some cheeses into that for your mac and cheese.
Thanks, Ashley. Hope that impresses your family.
Okay, here's a question from Amy.
I have a breakfast question.
I had dental surgery and have to be on a soft food diet for about a month.
Part two of this procedure is coming up, and I'm already bored of my breakfast options, which has mostly been scrambled eggs and avocado or hot cereal or yogurt with some soft fruit.
and then on the weekends when I have a little bit more time, some pancakes maybe.
Can you suggest some alternatives I can rotate in so I don't end up associating these foods with the dental work and then never eat them again?
Thanks so much. Plus, there's a note that Amy includes that I love that she said, according to her dentist, she needs to avoid, quote, anything that makes noise when you eat it.
Oh, I think is a really good guide.
Okay, my suggestion, because I can't think of anything else that's like a typical quote unquote American breakfast food to add to this.
I'm thinking we got to go to other countries and other parts of the world.
So I'm thinking porridges of the world.
Yeah. Well, there's of course porridges of America, grits.
Oh, great one. Great one, porridges of America.
Let's start with grits.
Okay, great one. Okay, I didn't even think about that.
So what do you know about grits?
I mean, I've eaten them.
I know it comes from cornmeal.
meal. And to make it taste good, you need to add a lot of butter and a lot of cheese.
Okay, yeah. So grits or polenta, I think you could do.
And those are just two different sort of ways that corn is ground.
And grits can take quite a lot of time commitment.
If you have an instant pot or rice cooker or slow cooker or something, you could make grits in that.
But grits usually definitely benefit from an overnight soak.
And polenta, you don't have to soak as much, But either of those you could do, and you could go sweet direction or savory direction.
I agree with Rishi that a nice, generous dollop of butter, whatever cheese you've got, a dollop of mascarpone if you've got that, or sour cream.
Some black pepper. Oh yeah, some black pepper.
You could go the sweet direction with some brown sugar or maple syrup.
Those are all nice things to add to the grits family.
Also, I enjoy a poached egg on top of a grit, and that's plenty soft that you can let that sort of run in there, and that's pretty delicious.
I like a hot sauce poached egg grit combo myself with some cheese.
That's totally soft and makes no noise.
So there we go. We have started in America.
And then I think continuing with your slow cooker and or instant pot, or you could also make it the night before and reheat it, we go to other parts of the world.
In Iran, there is a dish called halim, which is made with either turkey or chicken and usually like wheat berries that are slow cooked together with water or stock or sometimes milk for a very, very long time.
And you could do it overnight in a slow cooker.
And it's cooked so long that the meat kind of falls apart.
And you add some, I know this is going to sound so counterintuitive, but you add some some cinnamon to it or like sometimes a little cardamom.
I don't know. It was like one of the comfort foods for me as a kid.
It was super delicious.
We would have it sometimes on the weekend.
It's like a mountain winter comfort food.
It's really tasty with some ghee on top.
It's a delicious porridge that I love.
To me, I'm like, go the porridge route, sister.
So I relate to this because I had dental surgery last year and I got by on a lot of smoothies.
Oh, you know, it's not a meal, really, but it can be pretty filling.
And I made mine with frozen strawberries, frozen blueberries, a banana, spinach, and almond milk.
And they're great, really got me through.
That would be my go to.
I'm definitely really into the smoothie route as well.
Actually, Samin, you know what would be another good soft food, actually?
Have you ever heard of the Indian dish upma?
No. How do you spell it?
UPMA. No, I don't think I know that.
It's really good. And it's a comfort food for me.
And it's soft. It's made with like cream of wheat.
Actually, it's my dad.
So, you know, my mom's health doesn't allow her to cook anymore.
Oh, yeah. That's why Sumitra uncle is big with the air fryer.
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
Well, there were times when I would go visit where my dad was now in charge of cooking and like we would have this three meals a day, which was like, fine.
It's really good. but he's actually he's really good actually should we call my dad and see if uh yes please any any excuse to call him uh okay yeah this is definitely one of his his specialties okay let me see if i can get him uh on this hi dad hi hi sumesh uncle hi samin how are you oh i'm so happy to be talking to you i don't know if you know this but you have a lot of fans on the internet Oh, oh, oh.
Did you know that? No, I didn't.
So, Dad, we got a question from someone who is having dental surgery.
Oh, okay. And she needs to eat soft food.
Okay. And so one of the foods that I thought of was upma.
Yes. And I remember that this was one of the dishes that when mom wasn't cooking as much, you started making really often.
Right. How did you learn how to make upma?
Well, it has actually happened before my marriage.
Oh, really? So I was at UMass Amherst and I had my American roommate.
But once in a while, we had a lot of Indian friends and there were five Indian girls there.
And one time I made open mind, I called them up and they said, oh, I loved it.
So they became my number one customers.
But when I got married and I showed that to my mom, and she laughed like anything.
She said, this is nothing like upma.
Because I didn't have any seasoning, nothing, it was plain.
So upma is what you call seasoned cream of wheat or semolina.
you know. And so I used to just have some onions, fry them out, and then put a little salt, sugar, and then boil the water and put the cream of wheat.
And that was my upma.
But in real way, you need a lot of seasonings you can add.
So then did mom show you the way that she makes upma?
She didn't show me that by myself, you know.
She just gave you the criticism.
This sounds sounds a lot like mom she just told you that it was wrong and then you had to figure out making it better right so so let's stay with what your friend wants so one of the things which I have added has been cashews roasted cashews or peanuts but for our friend we cannot have that yeah yeah yeah so we can make it a little simple so we can have a mustard seed and cumin those are are like spices.
And onion, which we have to brown it up, salt, sugar, and then I use a lot of peas, so you can have frozen peas.
Oh yeah, that should be okay, right Samin?
The peas get soft. Totally, they'll get super soft. If you can eat scrambled eggs, you can eat a soft pea.
And cilantro and grated coconut.
Grated coconut, okay.
This sounds delicious.
It's really good. How thick do you make it?
Well, usually you take one cup of semolina, three cups of water.
That's like about my same proportion for polenta or something.
So the first thing is you chop up a bunch of onions.
Yes, right. And then before that, you also add a little bit of green pepper, chopped green pepper.
And by green pepper, we mean like green chili, so like serrano or yeah, something like that.
Okay, so you heat up your oil, you put in cumin seeds and mustard seeds.
Once those pop, you throw in some chopped green chili pepper.
Yeah. And then your onion.
And brown it up. You can have chopped ginger.
And separately, you do boil peas.
But before that hand, the first step is you have to brown the semolina separately in a skillet.
Oh, you have to toast the semolina?
Semolina, right. So that gives you the flavor.
So separately from this while the spices are cooking.
But like in a dry pan, not in oil.
you toast it in a dry pan.
Dry pan and you keep it aside.
And then when the whole water is boiling, then you add that brown semolina.
And then add the peas into the onions, add the water, bring it to a boil and then stream the semolina in, whisking to prevent lumps.
Because otherwise what happens when you're doing polenta or any sort of porridge like this is you'll get these these lumps of starch that never dissolve, and then you have these horrible sort of uncooked dry lumps of semolina or polenta or flour.
So you have to go slowly and whisk continuously.
And then do you cook stirring the whole time over low heat?
Yes. And then you add, after this completely becomes thickened, then you add ghee on the top.
And then you just cook it until it doesn't taste like raw flour anymore.
Yes. Right. So how long is that?
10 minutes maybe? Maybe five to 10 minutes.
It will be happening.
Yeah. Because you already have pre -brown.
Cause already toasted it.
Toasted it up. Right.
And when do you add the salt and sugar?
You can add the salt and sugar when you added the water.
Yeah. That's when I would have added it too.
And then after that's all done seasoned with the coconut, grated coconut and grated cilantro.
Ooh, delicious. Yeah.
But since, because this person mentioned doesn't want to have crunch, we are deleting cashews and we are deleting peanuts, you know?
Yeah. Oh, the cashews are, for anybody who's thinking about making this who does not have to have soft foods, the cooked cashews in the upma are my favorite part.
A perfect bite has a cashew, a pea, and some of the upma.
That is the perfect bite because it has a little bit of that crunch in it.
And then the pea is soft in its own way.
And then the upma has its own texture.
It's so delicious. Now I'm starving.
This sounds so good.
And you serve with, you know, squeezing, squeeze some lemon on it.
So that adds acid, you know?
Oh, yes. Familiar. Some things, salt, acid.
Some people, you can use the chutney, in Indian chutney.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, if you want to have. But this is traditionally a breakfast food, right, dad?
Yeah, it's especially in South India.
Does mom now approve of your, Ma, finally?
Oh, yes, she does. Okay, thanks for the recipe, dad.
We love you. Thank you so much. I can't wait to try this.
I'll let you know next time.
Okay. I have everything.
I have all the semolina and everything, so I'm going to make it.
Okay, good luck with the surgery, Amy.
Yeah, best of luck.
Hey there. Hello. This is just a quick PSA to let you know that super soft home cooking sweatshirts, shrimp Jenga forever t -shirts, and less soft home cooking magnets for your fridge are still available at homecooking .show.
Just click on the merch button to check it all out.
Or if you want to type the whole thing out, go to homecooking .show slash merch. So you just hear them talking about the creative process behind the making of one of their songs.
I was actually a fan of Song Exploder way before Rishi and I became friends.
Two of my favorite episodes are the ones with Solange and Sylvan Esso.
The show is so carefully and thoughtfully made, and it's just really inspiring for anyone who creates things.
Find it wherever you listen to podcasts.
So one of the restaurants that's been keeping me fed in moments when I'm not cooking is a place that you introduced me to, Samin, Sonoratown here in downtown LA.
And coming up, we're going to talk to one of the owners of the restaurant, Jen Feltham.
But before we do that, will you just explain to people what Sonoratown's deal is?
Yeah, it's just a little Mexican restaurant in downtown LA that specializes in the food of the northern Mexican state of Sonora, which, you know, is known for flour tortillas and cooking over a wood fire.
And it's run by this wonderful couple, Jen and Tio.
And so I had the great fortune of getting to know them and writing a column about Sonoratown a couple years ago.
And I think since then, they've been featured in a ton of press.
They've gotten really big.
Yeah, they've gotten so, so popular.
Which is like so awesome for them and so sad for us.
Yeah. Here's my question for you, Jen.
So for me, Sonoratown is such a comfort food.
I don't know know what it is, because it's not food that I grew up with specifically.
You know, I was introduced to this restaurant two years ago by Samin, but it just, it makes me feel so comfy and happy when I eat it.
Here's my question.
What do you make for yourself when you want to feel that kind of comfort?
I mean, you're going to think I'm crazy when I tell you, but it's the truth.
I think the reason Snortown has been something that people can really connect to is because it's really simple food.
It's not fussy. It's not complicated.
It's definitely stuff that you could make at home.
It's just when you do, it takes a lot of time.
And so since I'm pretty busy with the restaurant a lot of the time, what we eat almost, I don't know, five or six days a week, embarrassingly, but it's the truth, is pinto beans.
The way that Tio's dad taught us to make it is in a clay pot.
pot. It just takes time, unfortunately.
And we use the instant pot now.
I mean, the basic recipe that we use is literally just salt, just like slow, slow simmering with the lid a little bit uncovered.
And then you've got to keep sort of like tasting your water because the broth just becomes so delicious.
You want to make sure that it's properly salted, but that's the basic recipe.
But from there you can do anything, right?
So I've been using the instant pot before I leave for work in the morning and just throwing it in there with maybe like a whole onion, a whole garlic clove.
I'll put in like some dried chilies.
Wait, a whole onion?
Like actually literally a whole onion?
That's actually something I learned at Sonoratown because the ladies in the kitchen, yeah, we do use rice cookers.
Sometimes they won't peel the garlic or the onion.
They'll just like throw it in.
They'll be like, why?
I do that too. Something I really like to do though also is if we have any leftover tortillas that have been sitting in the fridge that are maybe like hardened or old and there's nothing thing that we can really do with them i'll also throw them into the pot wait corn or flour corn okay okay i haven't tried flour but i'm sure that would work too but no this isn't that same sort of thing where it adds like that really beautiful corn flavor to it it also thickens it which is something that's always good in beans and we keep them in the fridge after we cook after they cool and then refry them when it's
time to eat dinner with just like one serrano chili and all like like that gets blistered in olive oil first. And then the beans go in that ripping hot oil and we mash it up with a, with like a potato ricer or a potato masher.
But yeah, that's like every night's dinner with Sonoran sunflower tortillas or corn tortillas if we have them in the fridge, like I said, but yeah, so good.
I love that. And is it something that makes you happy when you eat it or are you just sort of, it's just something you're doing because you have no time because you're too busy making meals that make other people happy?
be. Okay. So when I met Tio, I was 20 and he was 18.
And he, when I went over to his house, we ate his dad's beans together with like some queso fresco and tapatio in it.
And I thought it was really delicious.
But then I went over to his house again and we did that again.
And then I went over to his house again and we did that again.
And I was like, whoa, what's wrong with you?
How can you eat this meal every day of the week?
He's like, it's my favorite thing to eat.
eat my dad's beans like i love it i could eat it every day of the week and so i embarked on this mission being you know an american girl i felt like you know like i'm going to teach him or show him about all the different things like he doesn't he obviously is doing this just because he hasn't eaten like delicious foods yet right and so we went to all these nice restaurants you know and he liked all that stuff but i think i never was able to convince him out of the fact that if something were to happen like this struggle meal would be something that he could easily do every day and he ended up
winning me over funny enough you know like after doing it enough times like i just crave it i love the flavor of it it tastes so comforting to me and like wholesome and i feel like it's changed my whole digestive system too so yeah yeah that's amazing how come they don't sell pinto beans by the pint seems like a no -brainer that's an oratown just anywhere you know a pinto pinto pinto pinto she doesn't deserve this from you stop we do sell it now no no as a pint yeah you can and do you call it pinto pinto now we do because that's a million dollar idea right there you just made me rich i think thank
you that's what i'm always trying to tell samin these are million dollar ideas it would be really truly a dream come true if pinto pinto made it onto the sanartown menu or really anywhere oh my god it would be the greatest gift. All right.
All right. It's yours.
You can have that gift. Amazing.
Gift for me, punishment to Samin.
I mean, it's a win -win.
What did I do to deserve this?
Thank you so much, Jen.
Jen, thank you so much for your time.
Thank you so much for having me.
Sonora Town is just an amazing restaurant.
If you're in Los Angeles, you can order takeout or get curbside pickup or delivery, I cannot recommend it more.
Thank you, Samin, so much for introducing me to them.
Oh, anytime. Everyone go there.
Yeah. You can follow them on Instagram at sonoratownla and order yourself a pint of Pinto.
Million dollar idea.
So in our last episode with Jason Manzoukas, you two talked a little bit about cooking with a cast iron pan.
My favorite pan. It turns out we've actually gotten a lot of questions about cooking with cast iron pans.
So I dug some of those out, and I wanted to play them for you and see if there's any answers you might have for some of our listeners.
Is this going to be like a lightning round?
Yeah, lightning round.
Okay, hit me, bubba.
My name is Carly. My name's Jacob.
I have a cast iron pan, but I find that every time I cook with it, whatever I'm cooking gets stuck and burnt and caked on.
It's really hard for me to tell whether I'm getting a normal amount of stuff stuck on it that I need to scrape or soak off, or whether it's because my seasoning isn't built up enough yet.
So I'm looking for some advice on how to make sure that my food doesn't get stuck to my cast iron.
Okay. One, it sounds like you have not properly seasoned your pan.
So you may need to add a few more layers of seasoning.
So that's just oil that's been baked on at a high enough temperature to become carbonized and become like sort of that black layer that we all sort of are all so protective of that we're like, don't scrub it off, don't scrub it off.
So to do that, you want to use a very small amount of oil.
I like to rub it onto sort of a clean dish towel and rub it onto my hot pan, like over my very hot flame very carefully, and then put it into a 400 degree oven for 30 minutes.
And then that's one layer.
So you might want to repeat that a few times.
The other part of your problem sounds like you might be starting your cooking in a cold pan.
So in general, with almost all cooking and almost all pans, but definitely in a cast iron, I recommend starting in a warm or even hot pan.
The only exception really is with butter, which will just immediately turn into like burnt butter or, you know, other very, very delicate things.
But like in general, you want to go into a hot pan to prevent sticking.
baking. Yeah, I'm pretty sure you told me this.
And now I hear these words every time I go to the stove.
Never cook in cold oil and never put oil in a cold pan.
Yeah, exactly. So I think, okay, let's heat the oil, let's heat the pan, and let's go.
Exactly. What I like to use for my cast iron pan, pretty much my favorite kitchen tool is a stainless steel scrubby.
So that's how I wash mine is just with water and a stainless steel scrubby.
Or if I don't have one of those around, I'll use salt.
I'll heat up my pan, dump a whole bunch of kosher salt or coarse salt into my pan, and rub it around with like a dirty kitchen towel or whatever, and then dump that salt out.
And so that coarse salt will rub away whatever you don't want, but not destroy the seasoning.
And the stainless steel scrubbing will do the same.
I think that's super helpful.
But it leads me to the last question in this lightning round, which is a more fundamental one about cast iron pans.
I'm calling y 'all because I am afraid of my cast iron skillet.
I used it once to make an egg and the amount of time and the amount of hassle and rules that go with it.
I just don't a hundred percent understand why you would use a cast iron skillet instead of just a regular pan.
I would like to learn how to use it.
My husband is mostly vegan, so if I'm going to go to the hassle of washing that thing and looking after it like it's a little child, I would like to make something that we'd both be able to eat.
Do you have any ideas for me?
Why cook in a cast iron pan when it requires all of this extra work?
I don't know what kind of egg you were making, but I will say sometimes I just pull down my nonstick pan and fry an egg in my nonstick or make scrambled eggs in my nonstick.
Listen, sometimes the cast iron is not worth the hassle for me either.
So you're not wrong.
I don't disagree with you.
But I will say probably the most used pan in my life is my cast iron.
And that's because I find it to be incredibly versatile.
I can go from stovetop into the oven without worry.
and mostly more than anything because I am a fiend for browning there is no comparison to the quality of browning that you can get in a cast iron pan and so just like the way that vegetables will brown the way that chicken skin will brown I know that your partner will not enjoy that.
But the way that food will sort of evenly stay warm over a low flame, it does take some getting used to, but it is so incredibly versatile and so incredibly controllable once you do get to know it, that in my opinion, it is worth sort of investing that time to sort of go through that learning curve.
I often take for granted the fact that I'm a bigger person.
I have big bones. I have a bigger frame.
I've always been strong.
And so I don't really think about people who have a hard time picking up heavy stuff in the kitchen.
And so I do know that that's a consideration for a lot of people with cast iron cookware is sometimes they're like, I don't want to deal with this heavy, hot thing.
It's scary to pick up this heavy, hot thing.
I'm going to burn myself I'm going to drop it so if that's a fear that's a really real fear that I think you should take seriously and I'm not going to like pressure anyone you know into that but I will say if that is something that you think you can work past it's worth sort of investing the time to get to know how to use this pan certainly for its browning qualities if for nothing else okay awesome that's our lightning round or I guess maybe with the pan seasoning we should have called it a darkening round yeah i have to say we're really light on the puns in this episode no i'm just building
up the layers you have to season your cast iron puns oh yeah yeah yeah yeah we do gotta season the punt well speaking of seasons back to halloween samin do you have a costume picked out for this year what if i go as you god it would be really terrifying to imagine like the version of me that's in your head coming out into the world would be truly terrifying to see it's gonna be gonna have like poindexter glasses and like basically you'd dress as steve urkel and you'd be like hi i'm rishi Maybe I should go as Sumei Shanko.
That would be cute.
So cute. You just need to carry an air fryer everywhere.
This brings me to our final question of the night.
Is this really leading us to a question about vinaigrette?
Is this like an unfortunate pun about dressing?
I wish. Oh my god. How did I not make that one?
What are you dressing up as?
Caesar? Salad? That would be pretty good.
Wear toga and like a wreath of laurels.
And then you have just like a bowl of salad.
That's a good costume.
Anybody out there, you can use that.
It could just say et tu.
Okay, that is dark.
But that leads us to our final question of the episode and just a delightful one.
Maybe the entire podcast. Here we go.
I'm Hannah and my two and a half year old son Asa has been like weirdly and consistently obsessed with cooking since he was a tiny baby.
He makes his own rice.
He washes asparagus.
He knows how the Instapot works better than I do.
I'm just going to interrupt this to remind you that she said he's two and a half years old.
Yeah. This is wild.
And he loves Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat, both book and TV show.
And a couple days ago I said, Hey buddy, what do you want to dress up as for Halloween?
And he said said samin samin so i was wondering because i looked at a bunch of pictures of you and have watched this tv show uh it's not like you have a uniform you don't wear a chef's hat you don't always wear an apron if you samin were going to dress up as you for halloween how would you do it thanks so much bye oh my goodness i can't believe this came in our inbox also asa i love you amazing okay hannah and asa my uniform is overalls um yes that's right which i'm guessing since you're two and a half you probably have some i wore them from two and a half on yeah in fact part of my chef's detective
uniform that rishi is trying desperately to get me to have made the hat we have so far the hat we have which only happened because rishi ordered it for me and now i'm i'm guessing the rest of it will only happen because rishi will also order it for me is he wants me to get a custom pair of tweed overalls made yeah if there are any wool tailors who can design a pair of bespoke overalls for samin um i will please hit me up i would love to engage your services so i would say uh overalls red sneakers that's pretty classic a curly ponytail that sounds great maybe a striped t -shirt under oh a striped t
-shirt that's another classic yeah and you can just walk around with some salt just just throwing it around.
A tiny dish towel over your shoulder.
Oh yeah. But very dirty only.
It's really dirty. Would it be accurate?
Oh man. Thank you so much for this question, Hannah.
Send us a picture. We need photo evidence of this.
This is amazing. Amazing.
Oh my God. That is so cute.
It's the best. Well, happy Halloween, everybody, especially Asa.
And if anybody else wants to dress up as sumin now you have the full guy of the tea please send us your pictures now you got to tell me what my guide to dressing up as you nobody wants to dress up as me what what if i want to dress up it's so boring it's just like headphones a white t -shirt exactly white t -shirt blue jeans goatee goatee who has a goatee you do beard what is it a beer In this episode, we learn that Samin doesn't know what a goatee is.
Or a beard, apparently.
Okay, before we go, one last Halloween thought, inspired partly by my dad.
Let's bring him back.
Okay, I'm on. Do you know, Samin, that my dad used to work in a hot dog company?
I don't know that I know this.
Yeah. And since I have both of you here, Dad, with your hot dog experience and it being Halloween, samin have you ever thought about carving a hot dog instead of a pumpkin for jack -o' -lantern no please please go on well if you could make a jack -o' -lantern out of a hot dog it would be a halloweener there goes rishi you made me turn the recording back on for this somebody just think about it halloweener a halloweener and your dad's just cracking up that was worth it oh my god those and that's it for this episode thanks for listening we make this podcast with the help of margaret miller zach mcneese
gary lee and casey deal and queen maimie reingold does the illustrations for our episodes home cooking is a proud member of radiotopia a collective of Independent Podcasts, and you can learn more about all the other Radiotopia shows at radiotopia .fm.
Let us know if you have any cooking -related questions.
Just record a voice memo and send it to us at alittlehomecooking at gmail .com.
Our website is homecooking .show.
Or shrimpjenga .com.
Still works. You can find recipes and transcripts for all of our episodes on our website.
And you can follow Rishi on Twitter and Instagram at Rishi Heroi.
And Samin is at Chao Samin.
Stay healthy, eat well, and take care of each other.
We'll be back in two weeks.
Until then, I'm Samin.
And I'm Rishi. And we'll be home eating candy.
Radiotopia. From PRX.
