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Hello everybody and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s.
The podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our
20s and what they mean for our psychology.
Hello everybody, welcome back to the show, welcome back to the podcast, new listeners,
old listeners, wherever you are in the world it is so great to have you here.
Back for another episode as we of course break down the psychology of our 20s.
Today let's talk about something that I don't think I have ever spoken about on the
podcast before.
Having kids, having babies, having children.
It might seem so far off for some of us and so adult but for other people it is right
around the corner.
It is part of their future to 5, 10 year plan and although I definitely think we've passed
the days when we were kind of expected to have children by 22 or 23 it is definitely
something that a lot of us start considering in our 20s whether children are part of our
future whether maybe we want to be younger parents or whether we want to focus on our
careers and wait regardless of your kind of preferences regardless of what you want
to do in your life.
I do think that talking about children as a possibility, thinking about their role in
our future is something that we really do need to start thinking about during this decade
as adult and mature as it seems.
I'm 24 at the moment and I always for the longest time was convinced that I did not want
kids.
I didn't want a family of my own especially when I was a teenager I had these very huge
exaggerated fantasies of like being the archetype of the fun drunk single art traveling around
the world like collecting, I was going to say trophies collecting trinkets you know this
whole fabulous vision.
People would always tell me that I would change my mind.
I really resented that I honestly still don't believe that everybody does change their mind
but let me tell you something I turned 23 and it was like suddenly I was sure and I was
sure that I wanted children and it was like something had clicked in my brain that I wanted
to be a mom to your mom someday and it really startled me and for the first time it really
had me considering things like parenting things like fertility and it brought a new lens
to my health and who I was dating and of course when that happened I turned to my friends
about it because that is my main source of wisdom and so many of them had experienced
something similar.
Some of my friends who had always been very you know firm in their decision that they
did not want children they remained firm others like me had like shifted entirely and
you know it's like I turned 24 and suddenly I've had more conversations about egg freezing
than I have ever had before and so many people are talking to me about fertility or starting
to really care that their period is consistent or about what they're eating in their health
and I want to talk about it when do we really need to start thinking about kids do we need
to start thinking about it in our 20s or at all.
What are the factors that we need to consider?
What about when it comes to our romantic life the pressure to find somebody is it all
to add up to soon and should we kind of preserve our youth for as long as possible.
You know there are so many questions that come up around this and it's so easy to kind
of just like put it off I'm going to make the argument for why thinking about it is
actually going to give you more freedom and more choice than not thinking about it and
we also heard from a few listeners who have children who are expecting in their 20s
about having you when they were ready and what we can learn from their experiences when
it comes to family and future planning so without further ado it's a much different
episode today but one that I am so excited about let's get into it.
Being children is such a distinctively adult conversation regardless of where you are
at in your 20s it is still so shocking to hear from my friends in their late 20s or early
30s that they're expecting children because it's kind of like you've heard a strange
fork in the road like an intersection of sorts where people's life paths split and children
and I think also you know marriage to some extent but that like is where the split occurs.
Some of us are still getting super drunk on the weekends some of us don't have a dollar
in savings but there are other people posting you know engagement announcements or getting
IVF or going to OBGYN appointments.
Everyone's path is super different but I think for many of us we are in a few minds when
it comes to whether it's even you know at the time to consider whether kids are part
of the plan let alone start trying to have kids if we aren't sure do we need to decide
now or can we you know it kind of feels like even thinking about it pops the bubble a little
bit it pops the bubble of being carefree and young because once you do start considering
it some really big things come up you know especially not just in terms of like do you
want to start considering whether you should have kids now it's even the question of like
do I want to consider whether I want kids at all and when I when I might want to start
what comes up with that is questions around like ethics and climate change and recession
and like the world that we would be bringing children into and it's almost like once
you are like yeah maybe I do want children is that when you have to start making a plan
is that when we kind of start to feel strapped to a timeline because once we start thinking
about kids there is this acknowledgement that there is a bit of a to do list that comes
with that you know you have to find a suitable partner or most people would prefer to have
a partner with them to raise a child you have to kind of get your finances sorted get
your life sorted before a window closes and for women obviously that window is our biological
clock and you know typically I really hate that phrase because it very much connotes that
like when the clock hits zero we expire we are passed our worth that we've run out of time
you know as if our lives don't continue whether we have children or not but that is what
we know it as colloquially and we also know that there is like a deadline for reproduction
not to make it sound so clinical but around you know 30 to 35 our ability to have children
to clients and it continues on that kind of plane it continues to climb before menopause
so knowing that does that change how we live our 20s even if we don't want to start having
kids to our 30s knowing that it might be more difficult and the thing that I often hear
from people is like if children are a certainty in my life plan why not do it in my 20s because
there is a greater chance that I can have children naturally there's a greater chance that
I'll be around longer and I might have more of that support system in my parents in
my grandparents even you know some of us are so lucky to still have you know both sets
of grandparents alive I can bounce back from a career break easier like there are a lot
of pros but there are also a lot of cons right the loss of freedom the quick change in
life trajectory compared to all of our friends the money that's a huge one the money children
are so expensive but also it's this like capacity and this lifestyle that we would be giving
up so that I think is the thing that really contributes to the decision to have kids
in our 20s or to even consider it because even if you do want to have kids eventually
in your 30s there is kind of an acknowledgement that there is a chapter that will close when
that decision is made and of course there is a chapter for everything but I think the
chapter that you are in without children is one of immense freedom it's being able to go
out for drinks or out for dinner with your friends any night of the week it's you know
coming home when you feel like it it is having the freedom to travel where and when you
would like it is having the freedom to sleep in or you know to just actually being control
of your life and there is a brief window where we truly get that after we turn 18 to
when we might you know have kids obviously if you don't end up having kids you literally
you win the lottery you get to have that freedom for the rest of your life congratulations
but you know if you want to have kids at some point like you're likely going to want
to start trying before you're like 40 so that's like 22 years to like get it all out
of your system to travel where you want to do what you want like maybe max you might want
to start trying early you might not want to have like a geriatric pregnancy when you like
I'm obviously spiraling here but it's the case that when you start thinking about it you
start thinking about how much this decision might impact other areas of your life it's
not just around like yeah I want to have a baby it's work decisions will you be able
to have a career break do you want to climb the corporate ladder or not it's travel plans
do I want to other places that I wouldn't be able to go with kids that I want to go
now other experiences that I want to have that I know are going to become more difficult
like solar traveling obviously can't solar travel if you have a baby because the baby's
got to be there big factor and then dating dating do like how serious you're going to
get how quickly and I think that when you have this acknowledgement of like okay no eventually
I do want kids and I know that it might be easier to try like in my late 20s or my early
30s it might put a lot more pressure on the people that you are romantically interested
in so I was speaking to a friend about this very component the other day and obviously
we are you know in a day and age where it's not like a man and woman need to like get
together at 22 and have babies by 25 otherwise like that's it you're not going to reproduce
there are so many other options there is IVF there is adoption there is sorry you can
see so many things but you know sometimes the dream is to have somebody to do it all
with to have a partner to help raise your child especially a partner that we love that
can feel so special but it also ups the stakes if you haven't already kind of found that
person and you're getting older you're not just facing the stigma of a society that
puts romantic love on a pedestal and pity singleness but it's also really confronting
to realize that the key to unlocking your life plan rests in a stranger that you'll get
to meet and it's kind of like how do you rush something that isn't always up to you how
do you tick this off your list to make it sound super super clinical and I was speaking
to a friend about that and how she is now in her kind of like early 30s and how stressful
it is that it's no longer just about finding a connection because yes of course that
that obviously is the most important thing but it's also about making sure that you're
on the same page she said to me she was like when I decided that yes I did want kids it
wasn't about that I wanted kids in my 20s I just wanted them eventually everything else
became a lot more serious and she was like I realized that I'm getting to an age where
I don't have the luxury of getting to know you like I don't have the luxury of like let's
figure it out it was like no if I'm going to spend a year dating you're a couple of years
I want to know that we are on the same page about kids or about family about values and
the timeline for things really shifts not that you are rushing it hopefully you are not
rushing it but it's more that there is a directness and intentionality and it's more like
you have to make calls about big things like kids earlier on and make sure that you're
on the same page and when you're 19 or 22 you know you kind of have time to have your
doubts you can date people that you probably don't think is going to be the one and it's
not going to really hurt your long-term chances of creating the dream life with the kids
or without the kids you can have those kind of fairy tale conversations about the future
without needing to enact plans right away but that changes the order you get and it definitely
is probably going to give you a fairly large dose of milestone anxiety if you kind of wake
up to the conclusion that children are part of your life plan and that part of getting
there is finding somebody and you haven't done that yet and the reason I say milestone
anxiety specifically is because that really derives from a sense that you are not where
you want to be in life or where you should be it can still feel like there is this like
key ingredient that you are missing and although milestone anxiety is typically applied to
things like career or financial goals when it does come to relationships I think it's
a lot more complicated because it's not like there is a formula for success or a correlation
between effort and output it is so influenced by things like chance and timing and if you
believe in it fate so I think it's really hard to not feel in control something so significant
for the life you dream of and even when I think everything goes according to plan right
even if you have assessed your emotional preparedness you have assessed your financial
preparedness your social preparedness the strength of your relationship you are in a relationship
you are both ready to have kids you know and you have been like yeah I am going to start
in my 20s I am going to this is what I want to be a young parent this is just what feels
right for me sometimes it doesn't always work out the way that we want it you can be
absolutely sure of your decision and life can still throw you curveballs and a big one
that I think a lot of us in our early 20s in particular don't think about is fertility
not just like the biological clock but also kind of whether we're able to even have kids
the state of all those other systems this is just not something that we think about when
we are 20 or 21 but the older you get you start to hear stories one of the stories was
something that I was it's not a story it's somebody's you know lived experience the
experiences of a friend of mine who I think really woke me up to this couple of years
ago she started having like these really weird symptoms and problems with like her period
and with other things and she went to the doctor and I'm not going to disclose exactly what
she had what happened but basically they said to her that her chances of having like a
natural pregnancy were incredibly low and that if she and her partner wanted to have kids
they had to kind of start trying before she was like 28 29 like she had to kind of get
to wriggle on that was essentially what the doctor suggested this was such a wake up call
for her and for I would say the people around her as well where we were kind of all in this
like bubble of like yeah let's just like fuck around find out like we're having fun
we're focused on like graduating uni and like yay like dating around and like partying
and then it was suddenly like oh wait I actually you know I think about my future only as
my career and I think about my future and it's like oh meeting the love of my life and
like getting ahead and like buying a house but it's like no there is a part of this that
is happening right now my fertility that I hadn't even considered and it really raised
the question of is it better to be prepared now or to live in blissful ignorance is it
worth bursting the bubble of not knowing and almost immediately fast forwarding your timeline
if you do find out the news that she found out which is that it might actually end up
being really hard if she doesn't start now or is it just like better to just get to
that problem when you get to it here's the thing if you've always known that you want
to be a parent and that is a huge facet of your identity and your goals and your future
I do think that it's worth just knowing in your 20s if that is something that is possible
for you even if you don't feel responsible yet knowledge is power especially as all the
science starts to improve there was this episode of Newgo that I watched a while back in
which like if you've watched Newgo like CC goes in and like Jess and Tacey are going
and they assess like their ability to have children and it's like meant to be this
fun thing you know like like you figure you go like you know when you like take a pregnancy
test and like you know it's going to be negative and you know you see this movies where it
ends up positive like it was just meant to be it's very much like that meant to be like
a funny thing and CC it turns out like has very poor fertility and is like really unable
will be unable to like conceive naturally and in that scene she kind of talks about wishing
that she had a magical wand to like go back to early 20s and like tell herself like be
a little bit more serious so even if it does seem weird to be thinking about it now and
even if it does seem pretty intense intense I think especially if you're a woman see
you know see this this questioning around your fertility in your future capacity or desire
to have children as an investment in your health the same way that you want to live a
long healthy life the same way that you want to have a really successful career and so
you are making investments in that right now if you do want kids it's important to be
thinking about it sooner rather than later and I think what I began to realize was that
the pressure doesn't increase but is reduced by being able to make future decisions with
full information that might actually derive from a decision that you make right now that
is kind of like the appeal of egg phrasing right like I've been reading so much stuff
about egg phrasing recently the premise is that you kind of store your good day good
DNA from when you're like in your early mid 30 20s sorry for like later when you're in
like your 30s or maybe even your 40s so that it's kind of like insurance you have time
you can delay the inevitable it brings control back into the situation even if like you
end up not using those eggs even if like it's not something that you end up deciding
actually know like I don't want kids like the climate crisis is too terrible I just
never met the right person like I'm happy without them it is the sense that like the
decisions you make now give you the freedom in the future it's like science has allowed
us to control something we were never able to control before which is time and biology
so that is kind of my argument for why I think it's important to firstly consider whether
you even want kids in your 20s and not in your 20s like in your 20s consider whether
you want kids in the future that's probably a better way to put it because the decisions
that you make around your health and your fertility now it may actually come back to help
you when you do decide in your 30s or 40s and if you don't want kids like great then you
can you know start making a plan to live your life more the way that you want it to and
I think the other component is like it's also important to think about whether you do
want to have kids in your 20s right whether like this is a better time whether you like
my friends example the knowledge that maybe it will get harder as you get as you age
and the older that you get it's better to start in this moment so I also wanted to hear
from you guys people who chose to have kids in their 20s what they would want us to know
whether you're just considering whether you're decided or you're acting on it stay with
us for more after the break.
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slash i heart that's lesa dot com slash i heart there is obviously a perspective to this
and i can't bring i don't have kids in as much as you know i was speaking about this weird
maternal urge that suddenly popped up out of nowhere in the last year i really don't plan
on it for the next like five to ten years but i wanted to hear from people who have thought
about it a lot especially people in their 20s who have decided to have children perhaps
earlier than what most of us would expect in this day and age or people who have had to make
big decisions about fertility in their 20s that feel really adult and feel like they are
something that should have you know that they could have delayed but then couldn't so i
saw this actually really funny article before i read this first thing that having children
in your 20s is now like punk which is so funny and that's kind of like you know what i do
i kind of get it because yet again when i hear about people having kids in their 20s it's
not that i feel any certain way about it i'm just like oh that's different when actually
it's not really it's not so i do want to hear about it i do want to hear from people about it
about their decision their timeline when they started thinking about things and their fears
so here's the first person that messaged us and i really love her perspective
i always knew i wanted to be a parent and had my baby girl at 23 i faced a lot of stigma that she
was an accident oh my god sidebar why would you ever say that to somebody that is so freaking rude
and yeah back to this person i was facing one that she was an accident when actually i'd been
together with my now husband since we were 18 and it was part of our plan i still lost friends who
didn't get it and had people judge me but she is now five and i like knowing that she will be
20 when i'm 43 and i could be a young parent as she grows up and keep up with her
so that is the kind of perspective that i think we don't hear too often people who you know had kids
young and how that is actually like a really valuable thing for them i think a lot of the time
and i will speak for myself here you see people who have had children young and you're like well
that's a bit different and you think about what they might be missing out because that wouldn't be
your choice but as this person said like no she didn't just she may have missed out in the sense
that she lost friends that sound like they were never really her friends but she gained so much
and i think when you are clear that that is going to be part of your plan and when you have really
considered it and thought about it you can actually choose when it's going to work best for you
and for her it sounded like when she was younger that was really what was aligned with how she
wanted to raise her child and she's doing it so i really liked that input i thought that was really
a perspective aside of things that we don't always hear here is another person who wrote him
i found out that i had half a uterus when i was 21 and that just put everything into perspective
then and there it felt like i aged out of my friend group immediately and no one could
understand how my life felt different because suddenly i was thinking about decisions they didn't
have to make for years whoa that was three years ago i still don't have a partner but i feel more
at peace with the fact that i'll be okay if it doesn't work out because i had time and more time
to consider whether this was even for me i'm glad i got to be okay with what could happen
and not be really excited about it when i was 30 and married then find out the hard way
yes it was hard but now i know more about my values and priorities than i did before i found out
about my uterus why did i say it like that my uterus thank you thank you for sharing
it really comes back to that point you know kids aren't everything at the end of the day you don't
need to reproduce to have a purpose but maybe the paraphrase what you're saying it seems like
at the end of the day it's about having choice that's what feels meaningful here
and choice also comes from knowledge and knowing more in your 20s even if it might up the stakes
actually lets you have time to consider things and to consider what you want in long term and the
alternatives to that ultimate choice let's hear from one more person hi i'm so glad that you
were talking about this because i feel like it is so weird amongst my group when i bring this up
people want to stay young thinking about kids feels old i made the decision to freeze my eggs
through work because i am 28 i have a boyfriend slash life partner but we haven't decided whether
we want to have children yet although we have definitely thought about it egg freezing just took
the stress away and work paid for it for people thinking about it it does put a lot of strain on
your body and it's costly so know that going in some part of me thought that if i went through that
i must know that i want kids because otherwise why would i do it yes it is important to think
about kids in your 20s as a hypothetical but i want to stress that you do not i want to stress that
you do have more time um then you think my mom had me at 38 back then she was so old she told me
she was never worried about it though because she loved she loved her life and she would have
had a full and wonderful life whether i came around or not and i loved that philosophy it is a big
decision but you can wait at until you are 38 or older and still be successful okay sorry i
feel like i really fell of my words there i really love this point and i think this is a really
good one to end on though because it brings some nuance as this person said you know she still made
a huge decision about her fertility and she didn't know but you do have time kids on everything you
can change your mind you can start late and i think it's a good way to finish this up is to
really articulate and express that science is coming a long way like this episode was not to
sit down and stress us all out about you know go and get a scan right now go and find out
if you can have kids like start on your family planning journey as young as possible because that
does sound very like the handmade's tale i understand it but i think that the whole philosophy that
underlies this whole episode is that more information equals more choice and if we think about
retirement in our 20s if we think about our dream jobs in our 20s if we think about finding the
love of our life in our 20s all these big things right we should you know all these big things that
are the ingredients for our life plan and are the ingredients for our five and ten year plan
we should also be thinking about children and if you don't want them that is honestly so like
i don't feel like i need to say that but yes just rest it one more time if you don't want them great
like you come to that decision you come to that conclusion and yes you can change your mind but
it's also like if you do want kids there are factors that are important to consider during this
decade whether that is your dating choices whether that is your health that we have more power by
thinking about earlier so i do hope that this episode has made you think or has just been
entertaining has helped you learn something thank you so much to the people who wrote in with
their perspectives and their life experience it was just something really that i've been thinking
about a lot and i was interested to talk about i would love to hear what you guys think if you have
a story if you have an opinion something else that you want to say please
DM me on instagram at that psychology podcast i would love to hear from you and if there's
somebody else you think would be interested in this episode who wants to hear it please feel free
to send it to them make sure you leave a five star review on apple podcast Spotify wherever
you are listening right now and that you're following along for future episodes and until next time
stay safe be kind and be gentle to yourself and we'll talk soon
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