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Hey, and welcome to The Short Stuff.
Josh, Chuck, Jerry, Dave, let's go.
I could not, for the life of me, find out where we have talked about Uncle Sam before.
And it had to be one of our videos.
But I couldn't find it.
I checked a million times over, and it was not a short stuff.
I couldn't find it anywhere.
But I know for sure, the only reason I know this is because
we've talked about it.
It had to be our 4th of July special that we did with The Onion and The Daily Show.
That keeps coming back to haunt us, huh?
Yeah.
Because we had another one the other day that was, I think, in there.
Yeah, I bet you it was.
Yeah, it had to be, right?
Yeah, but who cares?
Let's tell the real story, Josh and Chuck style.
Yeah, we're going to talk about Uncle Sam.
If you don't know who Uncle Sam is, then by God, you're not much of an American.
Yeah, I mean, how would you describe Uncle Sam?
From a cartoon, a drawing of a man who has become synonymous and a symbol of the United
States of America, a logo almost.
Yeah.
If you've ever seen somebody wearing a red, white, and blue stove top hat with, or a top
hat with stars on it, that's an Uncle Sam hat.
Yeah.
You ever see somebody wearing an American flag suit?
Mm-hmm.
They're basically doing their best Uncle Sam.
Ever seen anybody with a beard?
They're pretending they're Uncle Sam.
Yeah.
If you've ever seen a picture of all those things put together and a guy pointing at
you on a poster saying, I want you to do whatever, join the army or give money for war bonds,
that's Uncle Sam.
Yeah.
So our conception of Uncle Sam, the one you just described as thanks to a great illustrator
who was working around the time America entered the First World War, one of the great names
of all time, James Montgomery Flagg, with G's.
Love that guy's name.
But he was an amazing illustrator and painter, and he painted that iconic image of Uncle
Sam looking out from the poster, pointing at you, the viewer, that I want you.
I remember The Simpsons where it was like the immigration episode, Homer put up a poster.
He asked Apu if he could put up a poster in his convenience store, and it was Uncle Sam
saying, I want you out.
Do you remember that one?
Uh-uh.
No?
That's funny, though.
And Apu took the occasion to talk about how much he loved America, and Homer goes, wow,
you know what, Apu?
I'm really going to miss you.
That's great.
You should say it is Apu, though, right?
No, you should not.
The funny thing about this poster that came around in 1917, and we'll get this, it's not
the first incarnation of Uncle Sam, but it's the most famous that we know now, but James
Montgomery Flagg supposedly was inspired by a British minister of war, Lord Kitchener.
But he used his own handsome face as the actual model, and if you look up a picture of James
Montgomery Flagg, you know, he put wrinkles, he was younger, and a gray beard, but if you
picture that guy with that gray beard and hair, it's Uncle Sam.
Yeah, for sure.
That's pretty neat.
Yeah, it was.
Like, there was a, that Lord Kitchener poster was essentially the exact same thing, a drawing
of Lord Kitchener looking out for the poster, pointing at you, saying he wants you to sign
up to help.
And both of these posters were propaganda posters from World War I.
And the one that Flagg designed of Uncle Sam had been printed four million times.
Four million copies of the poster.
That Farrah Fawcett poster hadn't even been printed four million times.
That's how successful this poster was, right?
And this was all just before the war was over.
So in about two years, it was printed four million times.
The thing is, I'm sure there's people out there who are like, well, yeah, that's the
origin of Uncle Sam.
And friend, you'd be wrong.
Uncle Sam had been around for at least about a hundred years by the time James Montgomery
Flagg made his iconic poster.
And I say, we take a break, we come back and we talk about that very issue.
If you want to know, then you're in luck.
Just listen up to Josh and Chuck, stuff you should know.
I'm Jessica Acevedo, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing
for the Devil, The 7M TikTok Cult.
And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church.
And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed.
Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and
LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades.
Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high control groups and interviewed
dancers, church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted, just
like mine.
Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new, chilling first-hand
accounts, the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives.
Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration.
It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again.
Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts.
For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly
powerless to intervene.
It uses terror to extort people.
But the murder of Carmi Galante marked the beginning of the end, sparking a chain of
events that would ultimately dismantle the most powerful crime organization in American
history.
It sent the message to them that we can prosecute these people.
Discover how a group of young prosecutors took on the mafia, and with the help of law
enforcement, brought down its most powerful figures.
These bosses on the commission had no idea what was coming their way from the federal
government.
From Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts, this is Law & Order Criminal Justice System.
Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts.
All right, so the origins of Uncle Sam, there was a story that many people believed for a long time
that it came about during the War of 1812.
And that it was named such, or the character was named such, because of Uncle Sam Wilson,
who was a meat packer from New York who supplied beef, these big barrels of beef to the army
for the War of 1812.
They had US stamps on them, and they called those barrels of beef Uncle Sam's.
That was published and republished many, many times starting in the New York Gazette in 1930,
leading to a congressional resolution in 1961, recognizing Sam Wilson.
But that is not the origins of Uncle Sam, right?
No, I mean, a lot of people think Sam Wilson was the guy who started it all.
I mean, that story, everything comes together so close, like he really was a real person.
He really was working in the War of 1812.
The barrels of meat really were stamped US, but some really dedicated historians,
one by the name of Don Hickey from Wayne State College, another one named Christopher Filippo,
they both got to the bottom of this and found that very, very shortly before the Uncle Sam Wilson
story could have happened, people were already using Uncle Sam as a way of depicting or talking
about the United States of America as a whole.
Exactly. They found some actual proof-proof, and from an 1810 diary from a 16-year-old sailor on
the USS Wasp, where he was seasick and not feeling so good, and he wrote,
I swear that Uncle Sam, as they call him, would certainly forever have lost the services of at
least one sailor. And that was in 1810. So if he was using it in a diary entry in 1810,
that means it was what I would consider probably fairly common usage at that point.
Right. That guy almost certainly didn't make that up in that diary entry.
Yeah. So yeah, the thing is, is even though Sam Wilson wasn't the actual direct inspiration
for Uncle Sam, he certainly helped kind of popularize it. I think he probably,
his association with it and the story that came from that probably took it from what may have
just been relegated to Navy lingo, that would have become archaic, to now it has a story and
it's spread from there. So even though he didn't inspire it, it's still like, yeah, Uncle Sam
Wilson definitely had a huge role in the creation of the idea of Uncle Sam.
Yeah, absolutely. In fact, there was a minister, I believe, at the real Sam Wilson's funeral,
he wrote a letter that said that he had often talked with Wilson, quote,
about the circumstances which led to the singular transfer of his popular name
to the United States. So it sounds like what that's saying is that Sam Wilson even knew that.
Yes, for sure. And went along with it.
Right. He's like, yeah, yeah, it was all me. And he'd look furtively around.
So there was another character that I hadn't heard of, a guy named Brother Jonathan. Did you
heard of him? I had not, I didn't think, but then I also think that we may have brought this up
because those pictures looked very familiar. Okay, they did not to me. But there was a character
named Brother Jonathan who predated Uncle Sam by a couple of decades. Brother Jonathan was the
original personification of America around the time of the revolution. He dressed like a revolutionary
cat with a tricornered hat and those tails and the coat with tails and everything. But he was much
more rambunctious, much younger. I saw an editorial cartoon of him forcibly pouring a bunch of French
brandy down the throat of John Bull, the character who personified Great Britain and still does.
And he was around for decades. And eventually he kind of handed the baton off to Uncle Sam,
which is really interesting because it happened as a time when America was starting to mature.
The character personifying America went from a younger, rambunctious
brandy forcing character to a much more like older stern kind of down to earth pointer guy.
Yeah, I think Brother Jonathan went away by the 18, like there was some overlap there,
went away in the 1860s. And then Thomas Nass, and that's a pretty big name in
cartooning back then, right? For sure. He kind of gave it the conception of Santa Claus,
the pre-Coca-Cola Santa Claus. That's right. I knew that name from somewhere. But Nass is the
one who sort of came up with the more modern image and then Flag, of course, made the iconic
one that we still use, that same exact sort of character. Right. And so, let's see. What else,
Chuck? Well, I mean, one of the ways, you know, if you've still never seen much Uncle Sam besides
recruitment posters and stuff like that, or the old propaganda posters that Flag was tasked with
drawing, is in political cartoons, you'll still see to this day, like a political cartoon that
will use Uncle Sam in a variety of ways, whether it's a beleaguered Uncle Sam in a food line or
a warmongering Uncle Sam. Like, you know, anyway, they can, it's not just like kind of one use
whenever he's in a political cartoon. They can, he can adapt and change to suit whatever message
you're trying to deliver. Yeah. Whatever comment you're making on America, you just make Uncle Sam
do it. Yeah. There's also a 1996 slasher film called Uncle Sam, and I was reading about it.
And it's the, the horror fan blog was like, it's not a must see, but you could see it.
It's a movie that exists. But Robert Forster's in it. He plays like a corrupt congressman who dies.
Isn't that interesting? What year was it? 96. Okay. So that was pre Jackie Brown. Yeah.
You're around that time. I would think it wouldn't be post Jackie Brown.
No, did he blow up after Jackie Brown? Not blew up, but was definitely
relevant enough to probably not be in the Uncle Sam slasher movie.
He landed a role on Breaking Bad season five, at least, right?
Oh, was he in that? Yeah. He was the guy,
sorry for spoilers, everybody, if you haven't seen Breaking Bad yet, but he was the guy
who brought, oh, I can't remember the main character's name, but Malcolm in the middle's dad.
Yeah.
Supplies, when he was- Walter White.
Walter White, yes. When he was hiding out in New Hampshire, Vermont or wherever.
He was the guy who was just basically waiting for him to die so he could take his money.
Here's your things that I'm going to deliver to your house. And now if you could just give
me your money, that's my best impression of him.
That was great. I thought it was Robert Forster speaking just now.
And by the way, Jackie Brown was in 97, so kind of right around that time.
Yeah. For my money, the most underrated Tarantino film.
Yeah, maybe Tarantino saw him in slasher and was like, that's my guy.
You never know.
That was a good movie. I don't know if it's most underrated. Yeah, maybe.
Maybe. I could see that, sure. It was a good one.
He's got a lot of overrated movies.
Yeah. He's got a few under his belt for sure, but he's also got some of the greatest of all time.
Agreed. He's all over the map.
Yep. Yeah, and I'm really sad to hear that he's planning on making his last movie,
although apparently he scuttled the project that was his last movie.
Oh, yeah.
Because people had, like, spies had infiltrated it and he got pretty far into it. It was like,
nope, I'm making something else for my last movie then.
Huh. And you know how that goes. Soderbergh was supposed to retire too. Then he did like
40 more things.
Okay. All right. Well, that's good. That's hopeful. So obviously we started talking about
Quentin Tarantino and the Uncle Sam short stuff, which means short stuff is out.
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