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Hi, my name'sJosh. I'm from the podcast TheImperfects, where we interview our well-known people who look like they have perfectlaws, but like most ofus, infact, all ofus, they're often far fromit.
We interview people like James Clea and AdamGrant.
What do you do with the feeling of being animposter?
It's really tempting to trust your own judgment over otherpeople's.
What you're forgetting is that other people see you moreobjectively.
And I think what that means is if multiple people believe inyou, it's probably time to believethem.
Listen to The Imperfects on the iHotRadioapp, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get yourpodcasts.
If you want togrow, you've got to step out of your comfortzone.
Joinme, JennaColopas, for season three of my podcast overcomfort.
Everyweek, I'll be having honest conversations with some of my favoritefriends.
This is like me actually first time talking aboutit.
My mom is going to literally killme, but I'm so sorrymom.
We're opening up about the goodstuff, the vulnerablestuff, and the cringystuff.
Listen to The Overcover Podcast with Jenna Colopas on the iHotRadioapp, ApplePodcasts, or wherever you get yourpodcast.
My name isCurly, and I'mMaya.
And welcome to The Super Secret BestieClubs.
Podcasts. A super secret club where we talk about super secretthings.
Yeah, like secrets that aresuper.
That's what itis. In eachepisode, we'll talk aboutlove,friendship, heartrate,men, and ofcourse, our favoritesecrets.
Get inhere! Listen to The Super Secret Bestie Club on iHotRadioapp, ApplePodcasts, or wherever you get yourpodcast.
Hey and welcome to ThePodcasts.
I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry'shere, and Dave is hoveringover.
It's like a hologram of Obi-WanKenobi, which makes this shortstuff.
It makes us as onlyhope.
That'sright.Boy, that's tough forDave.
Where is onlyhope?Sorry, I'm being aSteve.
Youknow, we haven't talked toomuch.
We talked a little bit about the mafia and stuff likethat.
But I feel like we have a gap in our sort ofalcapone, Chicago mob sort of timeframe.
Like who arethe, what was themovie?
TheUntouchables? That sort ofera?
Such a goodmovie. We don't have a lot of thatstuff.
So this is maybe the beginning of a little bit more ofthat.
Okay, this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship as Alcapone saidonce.
That'sright. Then you got a knife in yourback.
So our story actually takes place in1933.
That's when itbegan, although it lasted almost the entire decade of the30s.
But by thistime, and this is sofunny, because this whole thing is associated withAlcapone.
But if we were going to jump to the end and put it at thebeginning, he probably had almost nothing to do withthis.
Yeah. The reason this Chicago milkwar, as it'scalled, is associated with Alcapone is because his directdescendants, hisprotégés, that took over when he was put into federalprison.
They were the ones who were involved inthis.
So he had some sort of kind of like phantom supernumerary handinvolved, but no directinvolvement.
Yeah. Like if he wouldn't have been inprison, it would have been Alcapone running this milkwar.
And it would have been 10 times bloody orprobably.
Yeah, you're probablyright.
But like we allknow, he was in prison for taxevasion, initially right here inAtlanta, and then eventually inAlcatraz, veryfamously.
But we're talking about the milkwar, like you weresaying.
And this gets a littleconvoluted, because there's just a lot of milk unions and delivery driver unions formilk.
And they all have similarnames.
And most of them are pretty good bandnames, so it gets a little bitconfusing.
But we're going to do the best we can to tell you how the mob in Chicago got involved in the milkbusiness.
And one of the main reasons is that FDR camealong.
And the writing was on the wall that prohibition was going to berepealed.
And that was really bad for themob, because they were making a ton of money with bootlegging and with thespeak-easies.
So they'relike, we need todiversify.
Right. So theysaid, how aboutmilk?
It's pretty unregulated and under theradar.
We are already in the food business a littlebit.
We run the artichokeracket, which wascrazy.
That's the fact of the short stuff rightthere.
Well, that and the Wisconsin cheeseracket.
So they already had the foot and the dairy and producebusiness.
Soyeah, I guess milk is a logical extension ofthose.
Imean, the cheese that makes sensetoo.
But it is surprising to go from booze tomilk.
Yeah. But it almost didn't matter what the productwas.
Sure. The mob could figure out a way to completely upend theindustry.
They were earlydisruptors, I guess you'd call them in 2010'sspeak.
But the way that they did that was through violence andintimidation.
And that's the first tactic they tried when they showed up at a guy named Steve Sumner'sdoor.
And Steve Sumner's door was the front door of the office of the Milkwagon driver's union local753.
And the reason why is because Steve Sumner ranthat.
He was the unionleader,right?
And you had said this whole thing's kind ofconvoluted.
And the reason why is because from what I cantell, there was an uneasy working relationship between the different unions and the different associations that all came together to produce by bottle cell and distributemilk.
Yeah. And each one had their own competinginterests.
And they were all trying to worktogether.
There was some price fixinginvolved.
There were some alliances that were alluneasy.
But then when the mob camein, they came in kicking down the door and shootingdown, shooting Tommy guns into this wholealliance.
And it just created this total chaos that had just been waiting to happen that the mob coming in really triggered and thensome.
Yeah,absolutely. Because at thetime, the milk priceswere, I guess you would sayfixed,right?
Is that theterm?Yeah.Yeah.
Milk prices were set or cappedrather.
And they had to use union representatives to drive and deliver this milk and distribute thismilk.
The mob of Chicago basicallysaid, allright, we're going to get in on the groundfloor.
We're going to buy an actual dairy and they bought meadow moredairies.
And that's how we're going to get into the milkindustry.
And what we can do is then not have to use unionemployees.
We can bypass that fixed pricing and we can undercut by a penny or two what everyone else is selling itfor.
Yeah. And get all the milk moneyourselves.
Yeah. And don'tforget, this is during thedepression,right?
So a couple of pennies off of a bottle of milk that was selling for 11cents.
Oh,yeah. That meant alot.
Like,yeah, you can make a pretty bigdeal.
So there was pricefixing, which isillegal.
And the mob came in and undermined it by introducing good old American competition toit.
Which is reallyweird. That's why this whole thing is so hard to kind of wrap your headaround.
Because it all is totallynonsensical.
Yeah.Yeah. You'reright.
Imean, I feel better because I couldn't figure out why I couldn't really make the most sense of this because it's not the most complicatedstory.
No. Butyeah, they came to Steve Sumnereventually.
This guy namedMurray, the camelHumphries, who was one of Capone'sfixers.
If you have afixer, you're not a goodperson.
Let's just saythat.Yeah.
That means you're breaking things if you need someone to fixthings.
That's agreat, greatslogan.
Oh,yeah. I should get that on ateaser.
Hurryup. So they went to Sumner andsaid,Hey, if you and your union can just lay low for a littlewhile, let us hire these non-unionworkers.
We can sell our stuffcheaper.
And then you can make a big deal aboutthat.
And you can protestthat.
Then we can raise these pricesagain.
And in exchange forthis, we're not goingto, we're going to offer youprotection, which everyone knows for the mob means we're not going to destroy your milk trucks and fire bomb your deliverywagons.
Right. And what's funnyis,like, I can't remember the spoof movie that this isin.
I want to say TopSecret, but I might bewrong.
Where somebody comesin, some liketraditional, like maybe gangster criminal comes in and starts shooting up theplace.
Mm-hmm. And then all of these like normalpeople, like pull guns out of nowhere and start shooting backunexpectedly.
That's exactly what happened with this because the mob came in and said that they were going to start breaking heads if everybody didn't fall inline.
And so all these people in the dairy industry who were allegedly legitimate went and bombed the mob'sdairy.
The moment they said that they were going to dothis, they went and bombed theirdairy.
Allright. I say we should take a break because that's a pretty remarkablething.
I'm going to go with Johnny Dangerously and I'm not sure if that's true ornot.
Is thatit?Okay. But it seems like I likely can't it and we'll come back right afterthis.
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Hi, this is Hugh here from the Imperfects podcast where we chat to well-known people whose lives seem perfect from theoutside.
But throughoutdiscussions, they share the vulnerabilities and imperfections that make them who theyare.
We chat to people like James Clear and AdamGrant.
You could have him potential to be a betterpartner, to be a betterfriend, improve hisapparent.
There's so much discussion of how do we build ourcareers.
When are we asking the question of how do we build ourcharacter?
Listen to the Imperfects on the iHeartRadioapp.
ApplePodcast. Pull wherever you get yourpodcast.
Johnny Dangerously TopSecret.
It's virtually the samemovie.
Imean, it's just aguess.
Boy, I saw Johnny Dangerously in the theater when I was akid.
I thought itwas. Ohyeah.
Funny thing I've everseen.
It's some parts of it are still prettyfunny.
I haven't seen it in a longtime.
But I think itwas,yeah.
JoePiscopo. MichaelKeaton.
You kiddingme?Yeah. The dream team is what they callthat.
GriffinDunn.Yes, the car master of chargeit.
Did you know he's Joan Didian'snephew?
Ofcourse. He's got a new bookout.
I'm Joan Didian'snephew.
You're my Joan Didian'snephew.
Youdummy. Emily just got it supposed to be a goodread.
So she's all intothat. Have you ever seen afterhours?
Oh,yeah, ofcourse. Goodmovie.
It's ofcourse,Aisy,baby.
Yeah, itwas. But it's also like a kind of a screwballcomedy.
Yeah,yeah. The only one he didreally.
Allright. That's been moviecrush.
Oh, I missed thatshow.No.
Not enough to do it againthough.
So we'reback. And like yousaid, when weleft, Ibelieve, right before I said JohnnyDangerously, you said these regular schmose started bombing the mob'sdairy.
And that's whathappened.
And it's justcrazy. And all of asudden, youknow, this milk war has kickedoff.
Yes. So I said that there was like a bunch of different competinggroups.
There were the people who made themilk.
Those are the farmproducers.
Those are the farmers who are like milking thecows, putting into huge likecanisters, and then selling it to the milkdealers.
The milk dealers have formed an association and they're the ones who are fixing theprice.
They weresaying,hey,farmers, this is how much you're going to get frommilk.
Don't ask for anything more because everyone who's going to buy it from you is in cooots againstyou,right?
So the farmerssaid,well, this is allcrazy.
We're just going to go onstrike.
You're not going to get any milk unless you guys start giving us a betterprice.
So in addition to thisgroup, these people werearguing.
There's also another group that wereinvolved.
And they were the stores that soldmilk.
They had milk for one set price and they could typically sell it lower than other companies who used deliverydrivers,milkmen, to deliver their milk directly to people's homes because there's that addedcost.
And then on top of that addedcost, the milk drivers wereunionized.
That's what Steve Sumnerrepresented.
And so they had a contract with those companiessaying, you're going to pay our drivers a goodwage.
And so there was competition between the companies that used union drivers and the companies that just sold it directly fromstores.
And all of them hated each other because they were all beating one another up to get as much of a margin of profit out of the others as they possibly could because the American public were the ones who werelike, we're not going to pay that much formilk.
You guys are going to have to figure this outyourself.
Yeah, do you think the mob ever went up to people andwent, you're going to be eating your granula withwater?
Or did they have cereal bythen?
Or were they still calling it probablynot?
I remember a Kellogg'sepisode.
That was the 19thcentury.
That's what I'msaying.
That was like the early1910s.
They were calling itgranula, but they called it cereal pretty soonafter,right?
Oh, I see what youmean.Sure,sure,probably.
Yeah, I wonder what the first onewas.
Because I think they called their cornflakes cornflakes pretty earlyon.
So they at least hadcornflakes.
Allright, let me do anothertake.
Okay. You're going to be eating your cornflakes withcereal.
God,f***it. You want to take a thirdtake?
Yeah, let's do takethree.
Okay.Uh, I'm going to add a linetwo.
I'm going to improv aline.
You're going to be eating cereal with water like in the movieFridays.
That'sawesome. We were going to ice cubeit.
Yes, we had to drinkit. Or we had to eat it withwater.
Yep.Oh,boy.Uh, where werewe?
We were talking aboutcornflakes.
Yeah,well, in thestory, I know there was a band name ondimension, the Peer MilkAssociation.
Yeah. They were one of the union's great band name post-acadeledcompany.
The secret of milkdealers.
What about thatone? That's not toobad.
Milk wagon driversunion.
Yeah.Nah.So,uh, youknow, we haven't taken a breakyet.
Havewe?Oh, wedid. Wedid.
Okay.Good.Yeah. Imean, we're supposed tobe.
We're supposed to be adding fun itemnow.
We're supposed to be done bynow.
Allright. So here's whathappened.
Uh, in1939, there was an anti-trustcase.
Yeah. That was going on basically withthis, youknow, monopoly that washappening.
And the court threw it out as a district courtjudge,uh, that threw itout.
I believe it was reinstated by the Supreme Courtlater.
But they avoidedtrial.
Uh, the DOJsaid, you knowwhat?
If everyone signs and agrees tothis,uh, then we can get this milk warover.
Uh, thefarmers,um, and theunions, you got tosay,um, that you won't stop independent producers from marketingmilk.
There can be independentproducers,uh,distributors.
You can't fix your pricesanymore.
Anddrivers, you're aunion.
There's a lot of moving partshere.
Yeah.Um, you can't hamperthe, the store sales ofmilk.
Like I know you like delivering to people'shouses, but distribution is the thing now and you got to let thathappen.
Right.Um, and so essentially what the Justice Department saidwas,um, you basically need to go the way that the mob was trying to take this and it's like go your separate ways and compete with oneanother.
Like be capitalist rather than pricefixers.
Exactly. What's funny is there's a quote from SteveSumner, who's just befuddled by this antitrust case that was slapped against him and some of theothers.
He'slike, we're trying to get the milk flowingagain.
Like we're just making deals here and they'relike, you're pricefixing.
That was the problem in the firstplace.
So stop doingthat. And I got the milk flowingagain.
I think in 1940 the whole thingended.
That'sright. Pretty greatstuff.
The Chicago Milk Wars featuring Al Capone in nameonly.
That'sright. Check that that'sright.
Twiceeverybody. And of course that means short stuff isout.
That'sright. That'sright.
That'sright. That'sright.
That'sright. That'sright.
That'sright. That'sright.
That'sright. That'sright.
That'sright. That'sright.
That'sright. That'sright.
That'sright. That'sright.
That'sright. That'sright.
That'sright. That'sright.
That'sright. That'sright.
That'sright. That'sright.
