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Hey, I'm Kwame Christian, and you are about to step into the world of Negotiate Anything, the number one negotiation podcast in the world where we teach you how to make difficult conversations easier while getting more of what you want in the process.
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Let's make every conversation a winning negotiation.
Elliana, thanks for joining us today.
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.
Yeah, we are excited to have you, so help you to get it started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.
Sure. So my name is Elliana.
I am a career coach and I primarily work with the millennial Gen Z generation, those who are predominantly in the workforce right now.
And my goal is really helping people get to the next level in their careers through learning the strategies, setting the goals, developing the mindsets to be able to do that.
And a lot of my focus is really in career pivots and transitions.
It's those who have been working mid -career, they're getting to that breaking point.
They're realizing they're not on the right path anymore and they're wanting to make a change, but not really quite sure what that change should be.
And grappling with a lot of the questions of, if I make this change, am I going to have to start all over?
Am I going to have to take a major pay cut?
Do I have to go back to school and really figuring all of that out?
And my goal is to help them realize that, no, you don't need to start from scratch.
You don't need to take that major pay cut.
You can leverage the skills you have to find the right career and build one that you feel aligned with and that you feel excited about.
So that's really my goal as a coach and what I look to help people achieve.
I love it. And also, my humble friend, make sure you shout out your course as well.
Yes. So going along with that, I have a course called the Career Upgrade, which is all about upgrading your career and really teaching you the four -step process that I teach my clients to be able to make that change, find that new career, and then also execute on it.
What steps you need to actually take to successfully make it happen.
Get that offer up and land where you want to be.
Love it. And everybody, we are going to have links to all of these goodies in the description of this episode.
So make sure you check that out.
And as you know, when we have our guests on, they do a lot of preparation beforehand, and I always try to mix it up when they get on the call.
I like it. With option B.
And so Eliana, the whole conversation that we had before the interview started, when it comes to human interaction and negotiation in general, what is giving you the most energy right now?
So I was sharing before we started recording that, ironically, I am now getting energy because I was having a very big lack of energy.
And that was because I noticed, and I just talked about this on Instagram stories this morning, so this could not be more authentic, that I had told myself going into the summer, I was going to set clear boundaries for myself, I was going to start saying no, I was going to really give myself time and energy
to recoup after what has been a really busy beginning of the year.
And I noticed that I was not doing that.
And I was saying, yes, like friend calling me, hey, can you talk about this?
Can you talk about that?
And I feel like whenever you're in a service industry, people are always kind of hitting you up for things.
And I've just been saying yes, because that's my nature.
I set a very clear intention this morning that I'm going to be firm with my boundaries that I had said I was going to hold, have hard conversations, which is what I know this podcast is all about, which means saying no sometimes, and really sticking to what I had set out for myself and show up less
on social media, say no, spend time with my family and really enjoy my summer.
So that is what is giving me energy now, now that I've kind of stated that for myself.
Yeah, I love it. And the reason I wanted to do this selfishly is because I'm going through the same thing, Eliana, I think a lot of us are so we could have a two second podcast and say, all right, great.
So say no more often and set those boundaries piece out.
But as we all know, it's easier said than done.
And when I think about what you said in the introduction, you said you want to help people build a career that they're excited about.
And you described you're building your own career with your own company.
And yet you are still running into this problem of boundary setting.
So it shows us that it's not just simply saying, oh, my job is encroaching on my lifestyle.
So I need to push back on the job because in your situation, you would be pushing back on yourself.
And I think a lot of us, we don't recognize that internal battle.
So let's talk about the challenge.
What makes it so hard to set these boundaries?
For me, and I know a lot of people can resonate with it.
It's the fear of letting other people down, especially when you're in a service based business.
But I'm sure even when you're working for a big company, you have your managers, you have your coworkers, and it's the fear that I'm going to say no, and someone's going to be disappointed in me.
And I'm not going to do as well as I could, or I'm not going to hit that goal or complete that task.
And there's a lot of almost people pleasing that I think is caught up in all of it.
And that's always been something that I've struggled with.
If I can help somebody, then I want to.
So how do I protect myself while also feeling like I'm giving the help that people need?
And I think that's where the challenge is.
It's kind of like those two things coming up against one another.
That's a big struggle.
Absolutely. And that's the thing.
We feel that tension, but a lot of times we don't actually explicitly articulate that tension because we have this internal battle.
I know what's best for me.
I know what I want to do and what I should do.
But then I also feel this tension from other people where I'm saying, okay, but I don't want to disappoint them.
I care about the relationship.
And it feels like it's a binary choice, me or them.
And we often end up choosing them.
And I'm not sure if you can relate to this one, but sometimes we choose them and we make what are sacrifices for ourselves, but the other people, they don't even realize that they're sacrifices.
And so they don't even recognize the impact this decision is having on us.
And it can almost feel unappreciated because they don't acknowledge the sacrifice.
100%. Yeah, I think that.
And then you kind of get resentful towards them, even though you're the person who said yes.
And you're going, they don't realize what I'm doing for them.
And I'm going out of my way.
My schedule is so busy.
They have no idea. You're the one who said, yes, they just think that oh, I asked her a favor.
I asked them a favor.
And they said yes. Why is that my responsibility?
Right. So it's that internal dialogue gets created and we create things that they don't even know are there.
So 100%. Yeah. Yes.
Okay, good. Good. Good.
I'm glad I'm not the only person.
You and everyone. Great.
Well, yeah. Let's get deeper into this because right now you this morning perfectly serendipitously made this public commitment.
So in your mind, what challenges did you have to overcome to get to this point where you were willing to make this change?
Well, I was starting to feel burnt out and like we're in July, I think a lot of people feel this way going into the summer where you think you want to take some time and relax and recuperate.
And like I said, I had a really busy beginning of the year and I had set this intention and I wasn't falling through and I was starting to just feelings inside of me.
I was feeling burnt out and I was starting to feel anxious.
And I was almost feeling like also for my clients that I work with that I wasn't showing up as in as present of a way as I could as powerfully as I could because I was feeling so drained.
So it's like sometimes you got to cut certain connections or set those boundaries to show up more powerfully for those other people in your life.
I like to share on Instagram stories because I feel like that's accountability.
I'm like, if I'm going to put it out there to all those people, I really got to stay true to it.
So that was I did it this morning.
And like you said, very serendipitous that now we're talking about this and that you asked me that question at the very beginning.
Absolutely. This is great.
It's really helpful because essentially what you've done is you validated your own emotion.
And a lot of times as busy professionals, we spend a lot of times invalidating our emotions.
I feel busy. That's a good thing.
That's how I should be feeling.
Oh, I have a family.
I'm a mother. I'm a father.
I'm working in this company, whatever it is, this is how it's supposed to feel.
So you follow that feeling and you recognize, hey, I have an option here.
I have a choice. And what you recognize is it's not the choice that we thought it was where it's like me versus them.
It can be a both end.
We could be a bit more flexible, but we change in life when the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change.
Exactly. And we have to honor that in ourselves.
Yeah. And I love that you said that too, because that sentence just resonates so deeply with my coaching practice and this notion that we're taught things, right?
The notion I talk about Sunday scaries all the time.
We're always taught, oh, it's your job.
You're not really supposed to like it.
You go there for the paycheck and we're fed these beliefs and we hold onto these beliefs, which is why such a high percentage of the workforce is miserable right now because we believe it's normal to not like your job and it's normal to feel really anxious going into the week.
But sometimes doing that, like you exactly, like you said, when you say the pain of staying is outweighing or the pain of labor, maybe it's the opposite.
It's cool. Yeah. We can clean it up too.
The pain of staying the same is greater than I wrote it down too.
Cause I'm like, well, you always mess this up.
So the pain of staying the same is worse than the pain of changing, right?
I hope I got it there.
And that's really what it's about, you know, like you reach a point in your career where you realize, like I cannot do this to myself anymore.
I can't imagine another six months of this, let alone another five, 10 years.
And when you feel that inside yourself, when you feel that internal battle, that is a clear sign.
It is time to look for something new and that it's not normal to allow yourself to keep staying that way and to keep feeling that way.
So I'm so glad that you said that.
Hello, my friends. Before we get back to today's episode, I want to ask you a question.
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Absolutely. This is great.
So now the listeners can understand, all right, when I'm feeling like this, I don't just need to sit there and take it.
I can make the change and I can do something about it.
I can advocate for myself and set those boundaries.
And now let's put your coaching hat on, Eliana.
Okay. So let's say somebody is coming to you and they're saying, I'm struggling with setting boundaries.
How do I set effective boundaries?
Well, I think it first comes down to awareness, right?
I think a lot of the times the problem is that people say, I want to set boundaries, but they don't know what those boundaries should be.
Because it's a buzzword, right?
Boundaries, and sometimes even when I say it, I feel very cliche, but you have to get clear on what are your non -negotiables.
What is okay for you and what is not okay for you?
Understand what those boundaries are and then understand I'm a very much a see what you can do, how you can fix it on your own, what the solution is, and then bring those solutions to your manager, to your coworker, to your partner, whatever it is, right?
Come up with an idea of this is what I want my boundaries to be.
How do I think these boundaries could be addressed?
Now I'm being proactive, I'm problem solving.
And now when I come and present this situation to whomever it may be, I'm not simply just venting and saying, oh, I'm having an issue.
This is the boundary I need for myself.
I'm so stressed. I'm coming from that problem solving perspective.
This is what I'm struggling with.
This is really the boundary that I would like to set for myself.
And here's how I propose that we can really input and create this boundary here.
And you're coming together to really like that conflict resolution together and being able to work on it.
So that's really the first key.
Yeah. This is critical because starting with the awareness is really important because a lot of times we might feel the feeling and we recognize something needs to change.
And then we go into these conversations and we're completely disorganized and we're just emoting in front of the other person and they don't even know what to do.
And so starting with that awareness, not just of the fact that something's off, but more specifically, what do we need to do to get back on track?
Because again, like I said, this is something that I'm working on with myself because I run the American Negotiation Institute.
We have a growing team and we're trying to do new things all the time, but I still have a family and I have to be really clear and say, all right, this is how much time I want to spend with my family before work and after work and what I want the weekends to look like.
I need to communicate that with my team so they know where they can and cannot go.
And so now I can say with myself, Kwame, you can be as ambitious as you want within these time parameters.
And then I can communicate that clearly to the other side.
And so this just goes into the art of preparation before all of these difficult conversations.
It's that internal work first, figuring out, all right, something's off, what do I need?
And with specificity, and then you can come to the conversation with clear solutions on what you need and why you need it.
Exactly, exactly. And I love that too, because it's also, that's such effective leadership right there too.
And you're setting that example for your team and saying, hey, I'm setting these boundaries for myself.
And that also gives your team permission to set boundaries as well.
Like now you're a ship all moving together.
So I love when people who are the boss who are in that leadership position can really exemplify those things for others.
So that's wonderful.
Definitely. I think that's really important to pay attention to as well, because we are leaders in different ways, because people might be leaders because they are at the top of the company, they might also be leaders because other humans see you doing things.
And I think it's so important for us just even as parents as well, to show our kids that it's okay to set boundaries.
So they don't just see us working ourselves half to death over the course of our careers.
But then also people on our teams, they're going to be watching it, they're going to say, hey, Eliana just set that boundary.
And now she is much happier and her work product hasn't diminished.
And our relationship hasn't gone off the rails.
Okay, maybe I could do the same thing too.
Yeah, lead by example.
I love it. Yes. Okay.
Now, something that people often say is I'm afraid of setting boundaries because I don't want to hurt people's feelings.
And so how do we help people overcome that element?
I think that's the hardest part.
And that's the a little bit before, but I think what often happens is that we burn ourselves out and then we're not doing ourselves any favors, but we're also not doing others favors.
And I think that if we can share that in a respectful way, it can be really helpful.
We say if friend approaches us or a coworker approaches whoever it is and asks us for their help with something, whatever the situation is, being able to share like, Hey, I'm so glad you came to me for this.
And you know, I care about you and I want to be there for you.
I'm at a point right now where I'm feeling stretched very thin.
And I feel like if I say yes, I can't give you the best version of myself.
Right? So let's take a few days or let's revisit this in a few weeks where I know I can give you my full attention and really help you work through this issue or give you the support that you need.
So you're letting them know you care about them.
And this isn't like a no, right?
If someone comes to you and asks for help and you want to set a boundary, you don't go, no, no, I'm overwhelmed.
I can't do this right now.
Like you're bothering me, which I think sometimes people do to a degree.
So it's letting them know where you're at and also letting them know that at the same time, like we can revisit this.
I'm not just ignoring you.
I'm not recognizing that you have a need that needs to be met or you have something that you need help with.
Like I see that. I see you.
I hear you. I just can't do it right now because of XYZ, but check back with me in a few weeks and we'll recircle on this.
And I think that can make you feel better while also not hurting their feelings at the same time.
This is brilliant. And I loved the fact that you gave the example essentially, no, go away.
And I think a lot of times people can get to that point after they've spent an extended period of time, people pleasing silently suffering, and then they just blow up.
So a lot of times nice people can seem so mean from time to time because they fall victim to the people pleasing pressure.
I'm going to give in, give in, give in.
And then one day you're like, I'm not taking this anymore.
And the whole world looks at you like, what have you been taking?
I was unaware. What's going on.
Wow. Yeah. And so that's important to keep in mind too.
And then you're saying really is you're starting off the conversation by reaffirming the relationship.
I care about you and I recognize that you have this need.
And you're asking for this from me for XYZ reason.
I understand that. And so my goal to you is to always be a good friend, a good family member, a good colleague, a good leader.
And I recognize I can't be that for you because right now I'm not in a good place.
And people would really respect that because what ends up happening is that a lot of times we say, Hey, I want to keep on saying yes to these things because I don't want to let people down and I want to be a high performer.
But then what ends up happening is we take on so many things that we end up being letting people down and being a low performer.
Exactly. Yeah. Counterintuitive.
Exactly. And so setting the boundary can actually improve relationships, improve performance and productivity.
So if we just take the time and share that with the other person to let them know that we care and we're rejecting their request, but not rejecting them as a person, then we could actually advance the relationship while setting boundaries effectively.
Exactly. Yeah. I love the way you said that.
Yeah. Rejecting their request, but not rejecting them as a person.
That is very key. Absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is good.
Let's wrap up with some big mistakes that people often make in these situations.
So people are bought in.
Okay, great. I'm going to reaffirm the relationship.
I'm going to set these boundaries as they're starting to go on this journey of assertiveness and self -advocacy.
What are some mistakes that you've seen people make?
I think what happens is this is with every negotiation conversation.
I see my clients do this all the time.
You share what it is that you need, or you ask for what it is that you need.
And then immediately, maybe there's a moment of silence or they don't immediately respond in the way that you were hoping they would.
And then you just retract on everything.
Well, no, no, no, it's fine.
It's fine. It's fine.
Well, we can do this.
It's in the negotiation conversations, how many times my clients have said to me, well, they didn't respond right away.
So I told them I just accept the offer as is.
And I'm like, no, no, no.
Silence is golden. Sit in the silence, sit in the discomfort and lean into it.
Don't immediately retract because you thought that they were going to say no, or they were thinking something terrible about you.
So it's like sticking true to your boundaries, even in the boundary conversation to a degree.
And when you share it with them, regardless of how they respond, whether they're understanding or they're not understanding, stay true to what it is that you want and know that there's still going to be resolution on the other side.
I think that's one of the biggest mistakes that people make.
And kind of same idea when there's maybe objections, so rather than silence or they don't respond right away.
But when there's a direct objection to what it is that you have to say, then again, going back to, oh, well, no, it's fine.
Yeah, I guess I can squeeze this in.
If they're going to object, well, you can object back in a respectful way and share, look, I hear you and I understand why you're saying this to me, but I really have to stay true to this because, and you know, confirm and say again, what it is that you had been saying previously.
Like you have to state to your original intentions.
And I think that makes all the difference often.
I love all of this.
It's so important because a lot of times we give up so soon and the problem is not that the negotiation strategies and tactics and principles don't work.
It's that we don't hold true to it long enough.
So for example, somebody might do the right thing.
They'll say, Eliana, got it.
All right. So I'm going to advocate for myself.
I'm going to do this research and do a little bit of introspection.
I'm going to be ready.
I want to know exactly what I'm going to ask for and why.
And then we go into the conversation and we're saying, hey, this is what I'm looking for.
And the person sits back and thinks for seven seconds.
You're like, I give up.
So you were able to maintain form for 13 seconds of the conversation.
That's not good enough.
So a lot of times it's not a question of whether or not the tactics or strategies or your approach to conversations is effective.
It's about whether or not you have the discipline, strength, and confidence to utilize it long enough for it to work.
And when we feel that silence, then we give up and we fill in the gap with information.
They might have just been thinking to themselves, oh, you know what?
That's a good point you brought up.
Let me just figure out how I could make that work.
And then you just jump in and let them off the hook.
And then with the other side too, when we're thinking about as the conversation progresses, how they're going to be objections, they're going to be people who are resisting a little bit, or they just have some questions.
Again, a lot of times people say the negotiation doesn't begin until somebody says no.
Very true. Yeah. And so we retreat too soon.
Concession and adjustment, those are things that are necessary, but if you have a shallow bag of tools and tactics to resort to, or you don't have much confidence, then you're going to resort to concession much too quickly.
Exactly. Exactly. And that's why you have to do the preparation beforehand for whether it's like a big job offer negotiation or whether it's just a conversation again with your partner.
I mean, I'm not saying you have to be doing all this research before you go to talk to your partner, but conversations, you have to be conscientious, you have to be strategic and thoughtful about them.
So it always requires a little bit of prep work ahead of time and anticipating what might happen so that you can be ready and in a position to be able to handle that situation, whatever it might be.
Yeah. Love it. Oh, this is so good.
So good. And so now I think listeners who are saying to themselves, you know what, I have a career transition coming up.
I might want to hire a coach and they're looking for a coach.
Eliana, could you give them some suggestions as to who they should reach out to?
Yeah. Well, I mean, obviously I'm here for you.
And there's a lot of other amazing career coaches out there as well.
And what I would say too, just to anybody thinking about a transition, there's so many myths and beliefs that I hear all the time.
Really one of the big ones being this notion of a pay cut.
I can't tell you how many people I have spoken to who say, well, I really want to make this change and I know I could do it, but I'm going to have to, I'm gonna have to start over.
I'm going to have to take a massive pay cut.
I can't afford that for my family.
I can't afford that for my life.
And obviously I get that fear, but it couldn't be further from the truth.
And I have helped people shift from, I had a client that worked as a manager of an ice cream store.
That's now a digital marketing manager, right?
So like that wasn't a pay cut at all.
That was a huge increase.
So point being that there's so many skills and transferable qualities and skills that you have that you can leverage.
And I always tell my clients, it's not the most qualified person who gets the job offer.
It is the best job seeker, the person who is clear on their value, on their abilities and knows how to translate that effectively and knows how to tell engaging stories to showcase that.
And anyone can learn to do that, right?
Anybody can learn to be a better job seeker.
So stop worrying so much about your qualifications and think more about how you're presenting yourself.
Do you have the awareness around your skills and your values and your abilities?
And then are you able to communicate that effectively in those conversations?
I love it. Eliana, this was a masterclass in assertiveness and boundary setting.
I really appreciate it.
And before you go, just let the listeners know about where they can get in touch and learn more about what you do.
Yeah, absolutely. So even though I said I was social media hiatus, you can still connect with me over there.
I will still be posting content.
I can never fully give it up.
And it's just my name, Eliana, understore Goldstein.
That's on both LinkedIn and Instagram as well as Reels.
I just joined threads everywhere these days.
So trying to be present in all places while still watching out for those boundaries.
So please connect with me there.
Shoot me a DM. I always like to chat with people.
Love it. Eliana, thanks so much.
Really appreciate it.
Of course. Thank you again for having me.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Now, before you sign off, I have something to tell you that I've never told you before.
Just kidding. I've told you before, but you should listen to it again.
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I'll catch you later.
