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Hey everybody, host Nora McAdnerney is back for season 2 of the Head Start Embracing
the Journey, a podcast from Ruby Studio and AbV.
In each episode Nora has a real conversation with real people living with chronic migraine
to see how they took action to understand this disease.
So jump into the conversation for season 2, a show that creates a little more space
for empathy and understanding in such a complicated world.
There shouldn't be so much hesitation around asking questions and asking for help.
So don't wait, join the Head Start Embracing the Journey and learn a little bit more about
life with chronic migraine.
Hi there everyone, it's me Josh and for this week's Selective, I've chosen our episode
on the War of the Worlds Myth from November 2020.
One of the great myths of the 20th century is that Orson Wells 1938 War of the Worlds
broadcast set off a mass panic in the United States as a rubs from all corners of the country,
grab their shotguns and ray insensitiously through the streets and pray death would be
swift.
Well it turns out America is less gullible than that.
Instead we're gullible about the idea that we're gullible.
Think about that one as you enjoy this episode.
Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I Heart Radio.
Hey and welcome to the podcast, I'm Josh Clark, there's Charles W. Chuck Bryan over there.
It's just two of us batching it up without Jerry.
Oh man, I think Jerry's inclusion, we're still batching it up.
How do you mean?
I mean, does she really ruin the batch scene for us?
Sure, she's very maternal and judgy.
That's true.
Oh yeah.
You were headed down a kind road for a second.
I was.
With Jerry?
Yeah.
That doesn't sound like me.
So for all of you who are just tuning into the first time, welcome, this is Stuff You
Should Know.
To everybody else who's tuning in for the multiple times, welcome, this is Stuff You Should Know.
Yeah, we never do that.
Some shows do that.
What they welcome new listeners.
Yeah, and kind of say what they do.
I mean, we've literally never done that.
That's fine.
That's lame.
Hi, who does that?
Any friends of ours?
Yeah.
And in the flop house, they've been podcasting as long as we have in every single episode
they say who they are and what they do.
No, okay.
Well, do you want to do that this one time?
Well, I'm Chuck.
Brian, and this is Josh Clark.
And this is a podcast where we explain things in a lighthearted and fun and sometimes
even funny way.
I disagree with all of that.
Oh boy.
So what we're going to talk about today, because I think we need to talk about this
one in a slightly somber tone.
Chuck, it's a blemish in the history of America, really, if you think about it.
Well, yeah.
And you know what?
I've never actually had listened to it until this week.
Same here.
And it was, it's a lot of fun to actually listen to.
I would recommend it.
Yeah, especially in a dark room where that's all you're concentrating on.
Not like a second screen kind of thing.
Like where you're really listening to this radio play.
Yeah.
Put yourself there a little bit like what it must have been like.
And well, not 1898.
That's when the book came out.
Yeah.
But in 1938, I mean, what, 40 years later, just in that 40 year stretch, I mean, think
about the difference between 1980 and 2020.
Not ridiculously different periods.
It's just gotten better.
1898?
Exactly.
Oh, yeah, it's gone downhill.
And don't think that had nothing to do with Reagan's election in 1980.
But the difference between 1898 and 1938 are, it's just like two different worlds, man.
Two different worlds, comma, war of the.
So I guess we should start with the book written by the great HG Wells.
It was the very first alien invasion story to hit the bookshelves.
And that's a pretty remarkable thing.
It was a serialized thing at first in magazines and piercings.
And the UK and then Cosmo here in the US.
And then they finally slapped all those serialized versions together into a book.
And it sold pretty well.
Yeah, it's never been on a print since that first edition in 1898.
That's pretty respectable.
I expect as much for our book as well.
Yeah, I'm sure it'll be still being published in 40 years.
Or 100 years.
Yeah, 140 years.
Yeah, well, let's hope.
So in this book, and like you said, first alien invasion story ever published, which is,
just the fact that this is a completely new premise, new conceit made it kind of scary.
But in the book, HG Wells describes this alien invasion.
And part of the thing that was so scary about it at least at the time from what I can gather
is that it was about the breakdown of society.
And we're talking like Victorian era England society where like rigid social rules and
customs and more is and guidance for all behavior at all times was like the norm.
So the idea of that breaking down was scary in and of itself.
I think that made the book kind of scary to contemporary readers.
Would that be right?
Readers back then.
And that was one big theme that Wells explored.
Another one that he explored in that at least I think whoever wrote the encyclopedia Britannica
article on it said that the main point of this, the main subtext was learning how humans
dominion over animals can be cruel and thoughtless because all of a sudden with these alien
invaders who were just wiping us off the map, we were like domesticated animals to them.
Yeah, so the she was on the other hoof and sure it caused or at least it was intended
to cause people to take kind of a hard look at pre animal farm to make sort of a social
statement about how we treated animals.
Yeah.
And so that was in 1898.
If you flash forward to Orson Wells in his Mercury theater version, he, this is, you
know, like you said, we're right in the middle or we're in the Great Depression and we're
headed towards war and it's sort of an uneasy feeling in the United States as a whole.
So he thought perfect time to go in there, put a fresh coat of paint on this thing and
scare the bejebus out of the American public by doing really something that they had never
heard before, which was sort of a verite style production.
Yeah, and I mean, it's easy to overlook today, but radio was still rather new at the
time in 1938.
It was like, you know, cutting edge technological medium and it was not fully defined.
So the idea of creating this, I guess, Hoax broadcast is the best you can call it.
This fictionalized version that was, what would you call it, man?
I hate that word so much.
I know.
It's really taken on a bad tang here lately.
Yeah.
I mean, it's verite.
It's a, you know, a faux documentary style thing that no one had ever heard.
Like, there's no way when people heard this, they would think, oh, this is, you know,
I know Christopher Guess.
This is sort of a scary version.
I've seen Blair Witch.
I know what's going on here.
I recognize Lenny from LeVernin Shirley anywhere.
I know this not real.
Yeah.
So they weren't prepared for this in 1938 when Orson Wells, he was already a big name and
radio as the voice of the shadow, which was big hit.
And his Mercury theater was pretty, pretty well respected at the time.
It's, yeah, it's like a live stage theater.
Yeah.
So they'd only had this show for a few months by the time October 1938 rolled around.
But their whole jam was, they were on CBS and CBS had them do hour long radio adaptations
of classic like novels, like Treasure Island.
They did around the world in 80 days.
And so since it was October, they wanted to do something spooky around Halloween.
Something not boring.
Something not boring.
Yeah.
So they were like, well, what's the most boring scary book there is?
And they said, H.G. Wells wore the worlds.
So they decided to adapt it.
Yeah.
And together they're rehearsing.
We'll talk a little bit more about that in a sec.
But there wasn't a strong feeling among the cast and crew and the production group that
thought it was going to be awesome because I think probably because they had never done
anything like this.
They had never heard anything like this.
And they thought, is this even going to be any good in a couple of different sources
in the production went to a radio critic ahead of time?
It's like, thanks a lot.
And they said, by the way, this is going to be a real stinker.
They said, apparently two different people in the production said that this will put everyone
to sleep.
And I don't have the impression that it's strictly because they didn't have any frame of reference
to judge it against because no one had done this before.
From what I can gather, originally it was going to be really bad and really terrible.
And the production and the cast and crew knew this.
They knew that they were marching toward embarrassment with the early versions of the script.
Yeah.
So, Orson, he's sort of distracted.
He's got a stage production going on.
He's got his partner and his group, John, the great John Houseman.
He all know from the paper chase kind of a legendary actor.
He was one of his original partners.
And he got together with Howard.
Is it Koch?
I never know if it's going to be a Koch or a Coke.
It doesn't matter.
All right.
K-O-C-H.
And he was the writer who was adapting the novel.
And they were like, we got to make this thing better.
And one thing I think we can do, this was Houseman talking.
I'm not going to do it with John Houseman.
But everyone knows how he sounds.
Right when I came across John Houseman being involved, I was like, I can't wait.
I don't even remember.
I mean, he was just very serious and sort of all I can think of as paper chase.
And what was the TV commercial?
Was it?
I want to say it was like Schwab or...
No, it was Meryl Lynch.
I think it might have been Meryl Lynch maybe.
I don't know.
But one of those finance firms he did, he voiced for.
Well, yeah.
He was very famous for having a very high pitch squeaky falsetto voice.
And he talked very, very fast.
And actually, I know who it was.
It was FedEx and Duncan Donuts.
That's right.
He was well known for it.
That's right.
He was the time to make the Donuts guy.
Right.
With the musket.
So, Houseman and Koch Coke went in there.
And he said one of the things we should do probably to make this a little more scary
and a little more believable that it's an actual broadcast is, you know, time passes in
the book.
And we can't do that here.
So let's just get rid of all that stuff so it gives the appearance that it's going down
right now.
Yeah.
That was enormously a huge change.
Totally.
And I don't know if he did that to help the pacing move a little faster or what.
But that was, that would pan out to be a really important difference in the original script
that Howard K turned in and the one that they ended up doing.
And then even beyond that, some of the other changes came just hours before broadcast.
Because apparently if you worked with Orson Wells, you should be on the lookout for him
to come in at the last minute and be like, all the stuff we've been practicing for a
week or two.
Forget all of that.
We're doing this instead.
And part of that from what I can tell is that he was trying to shake up the actor, shake
them out of whatever complacency they'd worked themselves into with rehearsal and to get
this raw or more terrified performance.
And apparently it worked.
I mean, I can't imagine I didn't hear any rehearsals or anything like that.
I would have loved to have compared, you know, the week before to, you know, the actual
broadcast.
But everyone delivered these really great, really great performances.
And they really nailed by showtime the realism in a lot of ways, not just in the performances,
but also in just little details.
Like they, you know, they were, they were doing a mock radio program, which we'll talk about
a little more in detail in a second.
But they were, they were pretending to have news bulletins break.
And so they were, they were doing the things that news bulletins did.
One of the things that stuck out to me was one of the eyewitnesses.
So it's an actor, but one of the eyewitnesses is like being interviewed by a news reporter
on the scene.
And they start to talk and the news reporter goes, can you speak loud, speak more loudly
and move into the microphone please?
And the, I think the actor actually says, how's that?
And the guy repeats himself.
And then the actor has to repeat himself what he was originally saying.
So it has that veneer of authenticity, just from little details like that, that, you know,
we're really, it stood out to me when I was listening for him.
But if you're, if you're not listening for him, you just, it makes you buy into the whole
thing that much more.
Yeah.
And the other big change that Wells brought along was stretching out the first two halves
of the thing, such that it went past, it went 40 minutes.
And radio at the time, every 30 minutes like on the half hour, they would check in with
a station ID check.
And listeners, even though radio was new, were well honed to this station break every
30 minutes.
And so when 10 minutes passed, the half hour go by and they're ain't, and they're ain't
no station break, that really makes people kind of buy in to what they're listening to
as possibly real.
And then you add to the fact that there were no sponsors for the show.
Yeah.
So they weren't cutting to a Casper or, or me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me,
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me,
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me,
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me,
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me,
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me,
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me,
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
this is what this specific study is what if you've ever taken a mass media or communications college class you've probably studied war of the worlds largely because of this study basically it might have just come and gone if it weren't for this this academic paper that were put out and all of a sudden for decades and decades it's reported on as like a cautionary tale almost of responsibility in media even fictional media
and you know as recently as 2013 PBS American Experience documentary said this was the case our old Palsit Radio Lab in 2008 did an episode about this where that was the case
but there were a few problems with this paper beyond the supremely bad methodology behind just getting scared new Jersey people to go in there and give their report
was they found up that we they ended up finding real ratings for this thing and not a ton of people even heard it it turns out.
So so his six million estimate was way off way way off and they did a survey during the program that said 2% of respondents said that they were listening and some markets like big cities like Boston even preempted this thing for local programming so it wasn't.
A ton of people it wasn't a ton of people being scared and like just literally losing their minds with fear and panic and things swing so far the other way that it the narrative became you know what no one was really scared at all and what newspapers really did was they put out hit pieces on a competing medium like radio and how you shouldn't trust it anymore.
So so what happened over the last within some time within the 21st century but sometime in the 2010s the the the myth that America lost its mind went bonkers and ran wild in the street because they were panicked by the war of the world's broadcast was shown to be a myth that it didn't happen.
And that was the new understanding for a little while just a few years until another guy came along and said you know what.
There actually both both are right in both are wrong in a lot of ways should we take a break and talk about the truth always being somewhere in the middle.
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All right I said the truth is always somewhere in between that's not always the case with everything in life obviously but that's that's a saying for a reason and that's definitely seems to be the case in this case with a gentleman named a Brad Schwartz he's a probably the leading war of the world scholar.
And he went back and he went and investigated the letters and the cables that that came in there at the University of Michigan archives and these are the letters that actually came in.
Two wells and the mercury theater in the days after the broadcast and what he contains and I agree is that this is what you need to be reading is what people were really thinking at the time that weren't just cherry picked in the town where that got attacked in New Jersey who were obviously there were going to be freaked out more than anyone in the country.
Right so one of the things that he points out is you know everybody been you know since around 2010 or maybe a little earlier everyone had been wailing on headly Cantrell for his terrible terrible methodology.
But they the revisionists were also kind of doing the same thing they were making all sorts of suppositions like the idea that the newspapers had basically conspired to target radio it's rival to show how irresponsible it was and how it shouldn't be trusted with the news that is really newspapers that should be handling the news and maybe you can listen to little or finnany on the radio but that's about it that that was all supposition that was as much supposition and
much supposition as headly Cantrell extrapolated his findings in New Jersey to the rest of the country and a bread shorts one of the reasons I think he's doing good jobs because he's saying no where if you actually sit down and read these letters and these cables that were coming in in the days after they really probably paint the most accurate picture anyone's ever found to this to this point of how it was actually received like you can see almost in
real time at the time what people were saying about this by in their letters to orson wells into the mercury feed around the air.
Yeah and it was a range of feelings it was everything from people who said you know what we knew it wasn't real but it was really scary and super awesome.
I don't know if they said things like super awesome he said that a number of people wrote in who actually made fun of the people who fell for it and said that you know they're they're gullible they're their robes and one writer even said they should be sterilized and disenfranchised.
Yeah because they'd shown that in an actual emergency they were undependable they would just run around like chickens with their heads cut off in the streets.
And sort of draws a line between what was going on back then to us today with this whole fake news hoax garbage that we have to listen to day in and day out.
And basically said this was the first viral phenomenon in media was the world's broadcast and it was a mix bag some people loved it some people did think it was real in panic but it certainly was not this widespread panic across the country like you were talking about.
Yeah he said less than a quarter of the letters described what he would consider panic but even most of those weren't actually angry when they were writing the letter a lot of them were thrilled like you got me.
He did right but he did say that yes there are cases that you see in these letters and in cables that that described people panicking so that did happen in some cases.
Most of it seems to have been isolated in New Jersey so if Hadley Cantrell had not extrapolated his findings and had you know interviewed more people who had different reactions to the broadcast but if it had just been like an investigation into the reaction in New Jersey that's a studier that book would have been much more useful but the fact is he just screwed that screw the methodology up so badly that it's basically useless.
But he wasn't he didn't make up the panic that he described necessarily may have exaggerated it who knows but it did it does seem to have actually happened in some cases but it was sporadic few far between certainly not organized and certainly not seen across the rest of the country like it was reported on by the papers the next day.
Yeah which sort of leads us to the story of the poor pulses of Manhattan this Manhattan couple they did fall for it they were very scared apparently as the story goes they got their last six dollars together and got on a train to get the heck out of New York.
Assuming not going west into New Jersey they went north toward Connecticut got as far as they could on what little money they had get off the train and you know there's a bunch of other passengers that they're telling you know they're warning everybody of what's happened right and this one guy there goes over and gets the and I just picture this in the movie is like no one's listening to this guy and he picks up the newspaper basically the TV guide so I.
It's the Dunkin Donuts he says it he says it says right here war the world's broadcast is supposed to be on at that hour.
I can just says right here in the newspaper it's a radio play everyone no one everyone now what nobody okay and then he just goes and gets on a train and leaves but they feel bad for them the other people.
That were you know that gathered together they loan them or gave them I guess the money and she chipped in and got them back to New York City and then later a still pulse wrote a 15 page letter the next day to Orson Wells that was very admiring and said how thrilled she was but.
I can imagine what else is in that 15 page letter it's a lot of.
I know hell of a story I think is what which is over and over and over right so so that was one of the letters that a bridge shorts turned up in that trove and like it very clearly describes a couple panicking because they mistook the war the world's broadcast but again this was not like across the nation like the papers reported and shorts actually explains the papers basically as a combination of.
A couple of things one is a bias I can't tell if it's selection bias volunteer bias or confirmation bias but the biases as follows if you're in a newsroom and all of a sudden your phone starts ringing off the hook and you're getting.
A hundred and fifty percent more calls that night and all of them are people asking about this Martian invasion and what's going on and is this real or is this a hoax or have you guys heard anything about this and some of those calls are even from the local police who are also getting similar calls and now they're calling you to find out the net seems like there's a lot of people calling and freaking out about this Martian thing but if you step back if you zoom out and look at that number of people that actually called the newsroom it's just this my new fracking.
This is my new fraction of the population of whatever town it is so it wasn't a bunch of people freaking out but to the people answering the phone in the newsroom who are getting swamped with calls way more calls unusual it did seem like that so that combined with anecdotal reports that no one followed up followed up on from the wire services that people were attempting suicide or having heart attacks or whatever that just being reported and related fact led everybody to believe that this was actually.
Happening out there in the country that people were running well maybe not my town because I stuck my head outside the newsroom and I didn't see anything but I hear they're going crazy in Chicago right now or I hear they're really going nuts in Milwaukee or whatever and that's how it got reported and that's what everyone thought happened people
who live through this thought that this happened the next day or some well thought his career was in jeopardy the next day because he accidentally made America go berserk and that's how that myth began and that's how it stood and and a bread shorts basically traced it back to lazy lazy reporting.
So myth busted thanks to a bread shorts and us.
And us for sure I'm glad you included us so there's an interesting footnote here though because this actually did kind of play out that way eight years later and night was eight years later yeah nineteen forty eight and Ecuador so this is in keto Ecuador these broadcasters recreate the orson wells radio play and they did a version that went a lot further than his did and got other
radio stations to join in and add to the reporting which really pretty brilliant move there to increase like you turn the station and it's happening over there too right and this really did scare people they really did take to the streets and panic.
There was you know public panic going on and then the crowd finds out that it's fiction and they get angry and actually turned into an angry mob and burned down the local newspaper building that had the radio station inside of it killing six people
yeah six people died fifteen people were injured like they knew that the staff was in that building and they set the building on fire to try and kill him a bunch of people escaped other back but a lot of people didn't escape and the two people who were
responsible for the broadcast including Ecuador's most beloved and trusted presenter were indicted for it like they're more safer basically yeah exactly
and they were they were indicted for their role in this like people died because of it and this actually does seem to have happened in Ecuador amazing yeah so there you go the idea that America fell into chaos and panic after the war the world's broadcast in nineteen thirty eight is largely
going to spread the gospel everybody unless you're an Ecuador and then you're like no it's actually happened here and since I said that actually happened here I think Chuck is time for this and a man
so this is from Tom in the UK did you see this email I don't think so it's great it's one long sentence and I'm going to try and read it and how I think Tom speaks
as a canony man as Tom from the UK because just the way he wrote it I think Tom probably talks a little bit like this this isn't Tom from the UK who was our tour manager when we did our UK tour is it no well shout out to that Tom
yeah this is an engineer and this is what you get to say all right sup Josh and Chuck Tom engineer from the UK stoke on Trent big fan of the show
bin bin gin for about two years and got through all of them all are you lot even Jerry have got me through a lot these last couple years and I put a few people on to your
podcast wanted to email you lot for a while and finally managed to get round to emailing a load of things to people about stuff that really doesn't matter
email the TV show about one of their actors a part of a part of call physicist about using a light year of lead as a frame of reference
the company super noodles for the excellent job they've done with their super noodle part but I'm not much for the peas
and I just wanted to say I know you like the Japanese mayo but you really need to try the Polish mayo spot on all the best Tom
boy boy Tom that was great and Chuck that was a fantastic stoke on Trent accent the most accurate I've ever heard and the first
Tom that was a great email you're right Chuck I love that email so much I had so much fun you were right to choose that one so thanks Tom thanks for writing in
thank you for including us in your list of people you harass via email and keep listening okay and keep writing in maybe we'll make this a regular thing Chuck
I would love that yep so Tom right in again and if you want to write in too we want to hear from you you can send us an email to
stuff podcast at iHeartRadio.com
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