This is an iHeart Podcast.
Guaranteed human.
On this week's episode of Next Chapter, I, T.D.
Jakes, sit down with Denzel Washington, a two-time Academy Award-winning actor and cultural icon.
I don't take any credit for it.
I just didn't put me first.
I just put God first, and he's carrying it.
Listen to the next chapter podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
New episodes drop weekly.
Hi, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally.
And I'm Hari Kondabolu.
On our new podcast, Health Stuff, we demystify your burning health questions.
You'll hear us being completely honest about our own health.
My residency colon was like a cry for help, honestly.
And you'll hear candid advice and personal stories from experts who want to make healthcare more human.
I feel like I never felt like I truly belonged in medicine.
We want to make health less confusing and maybe even a little fun.
Find Health Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News keeps you on top of the biggest stories of the day.
My fellow Americans, this is Liberation Day.
Stories that move markets.
Chair Powell opened the door to this first interest rate cut.
Impact politics.
Change businesses.
This is a really stunning development for the AI world.
And how you think about your bottom line.
Listen to The Big Take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey, everyone.
It's been quite a few years since we dusted off our classic episode on the insanity that is Black Friday.
So we thought we'd put it out there for you again.
I'm glad we made this episode when we did because Black Friday's nearly gone away since then.
So we kind of inadvertently came up with a document on a fading cultural phenomenon.
And I assume historians of the future will rely heavily on this.
In the meantime, I hope you enjoy this episode.
Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from HowStuffWorks.com.
Hey, and welcome to the podcast.
I'm Josh Clark.
And with me as always is Charles W. Chuck Bryant.
Jerry's over there.
And that makes this stuff you should know.
You just checked to make sure Jerry was there.
She's very quiet.
You literally turned your head and body.
Right.
Yep, she's there.
I did the Bigfoot thing.
I had to turn the whole side of my body to look over my shoulder.
That's how you know that was real footage.
Well typically, when you know Jerry's here, because you can just smell like miso soup or something emanating from our right side.
Yeah.
Or my right side.
Your right side.
But it's not emanating from you.
It's coming from Jerry.
Yeah.
She stinks like miso, which is actually a very pleasant smell.
Salty and umami.
That's right.
So, Chuck.
Yes.
Have you ever been to a Black Friday sale?
No.
No.
And I want to say H no.
Oh, yeah.
Well, I mean, that's a decent qualifier, though, because it's not like an average sale.
No.
And if you don't go to a Black Friday sale, a pretty good reason why is because you're scared.
Well, yeah, and I think this is one of those, a very divisive topic.
You're probably either really into going or it's the last thing on earth you would rather do.
I don't know.
A lot of people are like, maybe I'll go check out a door buster at 3 a.m.
I think there are people who do have that kind of idea, but maybe not at 3 a.m.
Sure.
It's almost like a multifaceted creature.
Like it is for some people, like just in the middle of a normal shopping day on the Friday after Thanksgiving, they'll go to a store and it's fine and there's some sales or whatever.
But then hours earlier, these hardcore people who had bathed in the blood of their fellow shoppers.
Well, sadly, yeah.
Yeah.
We'll see.
Had already come through and gotten all the best deals.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then there's those of us like us who are just like, I'm not going out.
And I'm not overstating this, because people always say literally when they mean figuratively, but it's literally one of the last things I would ever, ever do in my life.
Yeah.
I can't think of many.
I'd rather go to the DMV than go to a doorbuster.
The DMV?
Yeah.
In between North Korea and South Korea?
No, no, no, no.
That's the DMZ.
Right.
Okay.
Okay.
I always get those two confused.
No, I'd rather go take the last ticket from the DMV and have to wait all day than go to a doorbuster sale.
Yeah.
No, don't blame me.
All right.
So we'll get to more hate spewing about this later.
Right.
And I should state my opinion.
I feel like if this is your thing, that's awesome.
Well, true, true.
I'm not like cast dispergence on people who – disparaging remarks.
Is dispergence a word?
No, it is now though.
You're like your own like –
An American dictionary.
The new Chuck dictionary.
We should make that up.
I like it.
Yeah.
We could add like five or six words already.
Chuckisms.
Yeah, agreed.
I'm not saying like poo-pooing people who do it.
If you're into it, great.
As long as you conduct yourself in a reasonable manner and you don't turn into a monster like others do.
Right.
But there are obvious criticisms of the day too, which we'll get into.
But I think first Chuck, we should explain what the, as you would say, H is we're talking about to the people who listen to this podcast and don't live in the united states, because black friday is pretty much a uniquely american experience.
It is, i think, most people probably know, but just very quickly, it is the day after thanksgiving.
Now in the united states is known as black friday, and we'll get into the pretty interesting history of it.
But um, it's the biggest shopping day of the year right, and there are all these crazy specials that they run and we'll get into that as well but, Quite simply, it is the busiest shopping day of the year, the day after Thanksgiving.
Right.
And its origins – well, the origin of the term Black Friday goes back kind of a ways apparently, to the mid-20th century.
But the idea of going shopping, starting your Christmas shopping on the day after Thanksgiving, actually goes back to the late 19th century, early 20th century thanks to – department stores like the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade.
And as a part of those parades, Santa Claus.
It's no accident that it's a Macy's parade.
Right, exactly.
Yeah, it's still a good parade though.
Have you ever been?
No, I haven't.
Yeah, I've never been to the parade, but a couple of times.
Emily and I have gone to the day before when they blow up the floats, which is really neat.
Very cool.
You and me and I have a friend who's actually holding one of the floats, one of the balloons.
Oh, cool.
This year, yeah.
Yeah, it's fun to do, although we did it like Eight or nine years ago and it was really neat and sort of crowded, and then we did it a couple of years ago and it is nuts now.
Is it?
Yeah, it's kind of gone overboard.
Gotcha.
The word got out.
I think I saw something last year in the news.
Yeah.
It's not a place to go if you don't like strollers.
Let's just say that.
Oh, yeah?
Oh, yeah.
Strollers with all-terrain tires?
Yeah.
But the idea of starting your Christmas shopping the day after Thanksgiving came from those parades, and they came from those parades because all of those parades pretty much to a parade featured santa claus yeah, and usually at the end kind of like bringing up the rear and that means we're kicking it off.
That's the official start of the holiday season.
That's right.
Santa claus has made his first public appearance.
So um from the association of those two came going holiday shopping the day after thanksgiving.
Uh, that was in the late 19th century, in the, They think, or early 60s.
Well, the 50s calling the day after Thanksgiving, Black Friday came about, but it didn't necessarily have anything to do with shopping.
By then,
It was from factory owners who apparently coined the term.
Yeah.
And there's also the, the other competing theory, that it was the day that stores would go into the black, meaning start to show profit.
Right.
But that's not quite right, is it?
No, so that's a fallacy.
That's actually a – well, it's a made-up fallacy to gloss over the original meaning of Black Friday.
And it came out of Philadelphia in the 60s and the cops and the bus drivers and the city workers who work downtown came up with calling that day Black Friday, because apparently –.
Tons of out-of-towners would leave their homes on Thanksgiving, converge on Philadelphia to watch the Army-Navy game on the Saturday after Thanksgiving.
But they had a day to kill.
So they all started doing their Christmas shopping because there were sales in downtown Philly every year.
And the place would be nuts.
And this was where Black Friday came from.
Apparently, the police department wanted to basically keep people away.
So they'd be like, well, you don't want to go to downtown Philly.
It's Black Friday.
Right.
And that was the original reason or origin of the term.
Yeah, I see you saw in here an article from the AP in 1975.
A sales manager at Gimbels was quoted as saying that's why bus drivers and cab drivers call today, Black Friday.
Yeah.
They think in terms of the headaches that it gives them.
So I learned something new when I read this.
Yeah, and then... I had no idea.
It spread out of Philly and then, years later, retail lobbies and retailers themselves said we got to come up with a better, a better origin story for this, because we want this to be a day that people want to get out of their house and go shopping, you know.
But we should point out, even though it is not the day that companies go into the black, as it were which, by the way, comes from uh, when they did accounting by hand, you would write in red ink or black ink, depending on if you were ahead with money or behind.
Red ink meant you were in the hole.
Yeah, black meant Everything's good.
Exactly.
Even though it does not mean that the holiday shopping season is when stores make up between 20 and 40 of their retail profits.
That's a lot.
Yeah.
I mean even Emily's small business.
I don't know about majority, but a large percentage of her yearly sales are a couple of months.
Yeah.
And it's not just her.
Apparently in 2013, the National Retail Federation announced is predicting that Americans just in November and December.
Chuck, are you ready for this?
Yeah.
Americans are going to spend $602 billion in November and December.
That's cray.
That's a lot of cash.
Yeah.
In two months.
Yeah, I don't spend like I used to on Christmas.
Emily and I sometimes will spend on gifts on each other or do that like couple thing where you like.
Go in and just do something nice for your house.
Uh, and then like the adults on my side of the family, we don't exchange gifts anymore.
Um, just dirty looks.
Yeah.
You exchange dirty looks.
No, like my brother and my sister will chip in usually and get my mom something kind of nice uh, or give her uh, offer her a service.
Like last year, we replaced her fireplace with, like a gas fireplace, or build her a garden fence or tile her kitchen, like something like that.
Wow, your mom's got it.
Yeah, she's on easy street is what you'd call that.
Yeah, but emily's family, the they all still exchange gifts, so i still have my christmas gift swapping.
Uh joan satisfied nice, you know.
Yes, you get your christmas present on.
Yeah okay, chuck.
So um, the the idea of shopping after thanksgiving And then Black Friday that day being called Black Friday it's been around for a while.
And it's a really valuable day.
It kicks off that two-month period where $602 billion is going to be spent on stuff.
But it was created.
Like Valentine's Day, it was literally created and then the myth kind of became reality, just because they said – everyone's going to shop today, it's the busiest day.
And it became that.
Yeah, it wasn't until 2004.
Usually the Saturday before Christmas was actually the busiest shopping day of the year.
Thanks to me.
But the Retail Federation and all the retailers were like well, we can't tout that as the busiest shopping day of the year.
We want to get people spending over the course of a couple months, not the Saturday before Christmas.
So they basically said, Black Friday is the day.
And like you said, it just kind of became true just from people saying it over time.
I'm surprised that they haven't come up with a catchy name for like Procrastinator's Day or something to like pump up that last Saturday again, or something.
Or to keep you from it.
So they call it like Shame of the Nation Day.
Something like that to make you like go do Black Friday and not wait until the Saturday.
So...
And there's this website called blackfridayarchive.com.
It's actually kind of cool if you like nostalgic ads or whatever.
Nostalgia going back to 2007, I should say.
But it's just like scans of Black Friday print ads from those years, which are kind of neat.
If you're totally bored out of your mind, go check out blackfridayarchive.com.
I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally.
And I'm Hari Kondabolu.
On our new podcast, Health Stuff, we demystify your burning health questions.
You'll hear us being completely honest about our own health.
I'm talking about very serious stuff right now, and you're laughing at me.
And you'll hear candid advice and personal stories from experts who want to make healthcare more human.
Sometimes you're there to listen, to understand, to empathize, maybe to give them an understanding or a name for what's going on.
That helps people a lot, understanding that it's not just in their head.
We are breaking down the science, talking with experts and sharing practical health tips you can actually use in your day-to-day life.
From when to utilize and avoid artificial light to how to sleep better.
Everything you need to know about fiber and how to poop better, minimize the effects of jet lag and how to stay hopeful in times of distress.
We human beings all we want is connection.
We just want to connect with each other.
We want to make health less confusing and maybe even a little fun.
Find health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm robert smith, this is jacob goldstein, and we used to host a show called planet money, and now we're back making this new podcast called business history, about the best ideas and people and businesses in history and some of the worst people, horrible ideas and destructive companies in the history of business.
Having a genius idea without a need for it is nothing.
It's like not having it at all.
It's a very simple, elegant lesson make something people want.
First episode how Southwest Airlines used cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline business.
The most Texas story ever.
There's a lot of mavericks in that story.
We're going to have mavericks on the show.
We have plenty of robber barons.
So many robber barons.
And you know what?
They're not all bad.
And we'll talk about some of the classic great moments of famous business geniuses, along with some of the darker moments that often get overlooked.
Like Thomas Edison and the electric chair.
Listen to Business History on the iHeartRadio app.
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here.
I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health.
And I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mailroom.
And I'm Jordan, the show's producer.
And like a lot of guys, I haven't been to the doctor in many years.
I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't.
Because guys usually don't go to the doctor unless a piece of their face is hanging off or they've broken a bone.
Depends which bum.
Well, that's true.
Every week, we're breaking down the unique world of men's health, from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility and things that happen in the bedroom.
You mean sleep?
Yeah, something like that, Jordan.
We'll talk science without the jargon and get you real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about.
It's going to be fun, whether you're 27, 97, or somewhere in between.
Men's health is about more than six packs and supplements.
It's about energy.
So Black Friday continues.
It became a smashing success.
2004, 2005 it's a relatively recent thing that it became what it is today here in the States, which is an out-of-control juggernaut of shopping and consumeristic frenzy.
It was so successful overnight that the retailer said well, let's figure out ways to extend this whole week.
Yeah.
So they came up with Cyber Monday in 2005.
Yeah, that's pretty recent and it is the online shopping version of Black Friday the Monday after Thanksgiving.
And that was another thing.
They just made up another self-fulfilling myth that they said the workers go back to their computer after Thanksgiving, on Monday, and they do all of their online shopping.
Yeah.
That wasn't really true, but now it is because the retailer said it was and the media reported it.
And not to be outdone.
In 2010, American Express invented Small Business Saturday, which is when you go out and support small businesses with your money.
Especially ones that take American Express.
Exactly.
So it's interesting.
They're literally creating days to tell people basically, if you're not shopping today, you're missing out on something.
Right, exactly.
And the more days, the better as far as retailers are concerned.
But there's only so many days after Thanksgiving.
So they started to think recently like well, what if we pushed in the other direction, rather from Friday on.
What's behind Friday?
Oh, yeah, Thanksgiving.
We can't touch that.
For shame.
Well, starting in 2012, they started touching it.
Walmart actually opened at 8 p.m. on Thanksgiving in 2012.
And there was a general strike called that we'll talk about later because of that.
Because these stores... are not supposed to be open on Thanksgiving.
Thanksgiving is its own day.
It's a day of being with family and celebrating.
Giving thanks.
Up until 2012, it was sacrosanct.
Yeah.
This year, Macy's and JCPenney for the first time are opening on Thanksgiving.
And Sears and Toys R Us as well on Thanksgiving evening.
And Kmart is opening at 6 am on Thanksgiving, basically extending Black Friday to through the weekend.
41 hours.
That's not a day.
That's how long Kmart's going to be open.
Black Friday at Kmart lasts 41 hours.
Yeah.
That's pretty crazy.
And at shopping malls, you're going to have some smaller stores doing the same thing.
An estimated 20 to 25 will be open at 8 pm on Thanksgiving Day and two-thirds will open at midnight.
So essentially, what's happening is Thanksgiving evening is – being ruined by retail.
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, i think the retailers would say well, you know, we don't have to go that people.
Right, we've seen that people start lining up thanksgiving afternoon, thanksgiving evening, to wait for us to open, like that, you know, the next morning.
So why don't we just open?
So i mean, i think it's kind of um, it goes both ways, but i i pretty much see where you're coming from.
Yeah well, this year it's a little trickier too, because Thanksgiving comes on November 28th, which is the latest it's been in 11 years.
Yeah.
Is that right?
Yeah.
2002?
Yeah.
So weirdly, because they still sort of have to enforce Black Friday, they're actually shortening their own shopping season a little bit this year, which is probably why some of them are opening on Thanksgiving.
That's exactly why.
It's six days shorter than usual this year.
So just by the very existence, by making up Black Friday, They've screwed themselves this year a little bit.
They have.
By a week.
Yeah, because there's In other countries like Canada, the UK, the Netherlands, countries that observe the Christmas holidays like we do in America, meaning everybody gives everybody else presents and things like that, and they spend money.
But those countries don't have a Black Friday, a day that officially kicks off the holiday shopping season.
Those countries spend more over the course of the holiday season because they have a longer period of time to shop.
So without Black Friday in America, the retailers would possibly make more money.
So they've definitely painted themselves into a corner by making black friday such a thing, and this year it's really kind of pointing out like we may be shooting ourselves in the foot here.
So what can we do?
Well, their solution has been well, we'll just take over thanksgiving too.
But that's not necessarily sustainable and there's a lot of people who are saying black friday is going to go the way of the dinosaur.
Yeah, i read an interesting article in the new yorker uh, this morning, a finance article.
I think it was new yorker, it might have been new york times, but um, this financial analyst was basically analyzing how the sales go and sort of saying that it's really not financially the smartest approach to take for the shoppers or the retail, for the retailers, to offer these huge deep discounts and sort of blow it out in one day.
A better, smarter financial approach would be to elongate the seas shopping season at a and not even discount things, maybe even raise prices.
And, uh, His contention is that they're shooting themselves in the foot.
Right.
I think he's right.
Yeah, he probably is.
But, at the same time, if you're one of those people like me, frankly who went to the mall the day after Halloween and saw that the lights were up, the garland was out, Santa's workshop was ready to go,
The day after Halloween?
November 1st.
Wow.
The place was totally decked out for Christmas with Christmas carols piping through.
Yeah, see, that's...
That's ridiculous.
But see, that was the great thing about Black Friday.
It's like you had a month of just kind of chilling out everything getting ready between Halloween and Thanksgiving.
Then you had Thanksgiving, and then the holiday season started.
Without Black Friday, it's kind of like this dam that's holding back the holiday season from spilling into basically October.
Yeah.
But with retailers figuring out that it's an impedance to them making money, it probably won't start the official season any longer.
It'll probably be further back from now on.
Yeah.
Well, I think we're in, I don't know about, well, technically slightly in the minority.
In 2013, 53% of the population of American adults said they will shop on Black Friday.
Right.
53%.
Yeah, that puts us in the minority by a bit.
Yeah.
And in 2011, 152 Americans shopped.
152 million.
Oh, yeah.
Just 150.
But they spent $500 billion.
Yeah, 152 really rich Americans.
152 million shopped on that day, for an average of three hours at a time, which is not too long.
But
I mean, three hours is... It's longer than I want to shop ever.
I saw a woman who did 16, though.
Like, a 16-hour stretch of shopping.
She better have gotten it all done, at least.
I hope so.
You know?
Yeah.
Like, if she shopped for 16 hours and only got, like, three gifts, it's not time well spent.
There's also evidence... that the internet is basically knocking on Black Friday's door.
Thanksgiving Day is the fastest growing online shopping day.
And I think like 70 of the people who said that they're going to shop on Black Friday said they'll do some or most of it online.
So the internet's still there for retailers to make money.
But the idea of Black Friday in-store sales going extinct is probably not going to happen because it's its own thing.
Like there's a this one consumer psychologist or consumer analyst, I think, pointed out that it's it's a tradition.
Number one.
Now it is.
And number two, there's a certain element of like sport to it.
It's, it's more than just getting a good deal.
It's like, you know, throwing a fist at somebody while you get a good deal or something to it that, that transcends the whole thing.
So we mentioned door busters.
It's a central part of the cog that is Black Friday.
And it goes back in print, believe it or not, to the year 1917 and anecdotally, to 1895, wherein a retailer will basically say you know what we have?
One item, or usually it's a few now, but some really deep, deep and really super great deals on just a few select items.
So like, for example, a A good laptop for $180.
Yes.
And like deals like that, iPods for half off or a TV for like $200.
Like really, really, like you said, very good discounts.
But here's the deal.
It's a scam, people.
It's a bait and switch scheme.
It's a bait and switch.
They've only got a very limited amount of these select items, which is why the violence happens, which we'll get to in a minute.
And then after that, they're hoping you get in there.
You don't get that laptop, but you're like, screw it.
I'm at Walmart at 5 a.m.
I might as well buy some stuff regular priced or slightly discounted items.
And, you know, that's how they get you in the store.
That's how they get you.
It is.
And it's true that these items do exist, and they are for that deal.
They're for that price, I should say.
Yeah.
But there's only like 10.
And in the fine print, it's like one per person.
And that deals is for in stock only.
Like you can't get a rain check or anything like that.
No, no, no.
But the concept that these deals do exist for those items that are in the store, coupled with whoever physically gets their hands on that item first, gets that deal.
Yeah.
Leads to doors actually being busted.
It's called recipe for disaster.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
So, before we get to the dark days and the bad stuff that can happen truly, let's do a little message break.
OK.
Hi, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally.
And I'm Hari Kundabolu.
On our new podcast, Health Stuff, we demystify your burning health questions.
You'll hear us being completely honest about our own health.
I'm talking about very serious stuff right now and you're laughing at me.
And you'll hear candid advice and personal stories from experts who want to make healthcare more human.
Sometimes you're there to listen, to understand, to empathize, maybe to give them an understanding or a name for what's going on.
That helps people a lot.
Understanding that it's not just in their head.
We are breaking down the science, talking with experts and sharing practical health tips you can actually use in your day-to-day life.
From when to utilize and avoid artificial light to how to sleep better.
Everything you need to know about fiber and how to poop better.
How to minimize the effects of jet lag and how to stay hopeful in times of distress.
We human beings, all we want is connection.
We just want to connect with each other.
We want to make health less confusing and maybe even a little fun.
Find Health Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Robert Smith.
This is Jacob Goldstein.
And we used to host a show called Planet Money.
And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History, about the best ideas and people and businesses in history and some of the worst people, horrible ideas and destructive companies in the history of business.
Having a genius idea without a need for it is nothing.
It's like not having it at all.
It's a very simple, elegant lesson.
Make something people want.
First episode, how Southwest Airlines used cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline business.
The most Texas story ever.
There's a lot of mavericks in that story.
We're going to have mavericks on the show.
We have plenty of robber barons.
So many robber barons.
And you know what?
They're not all bad.
And we'll talk about some of the classic great moments of famous business geniuses, along with some of the darker moments that often get overlooked, like Thomas Edison and the electric chair.
Listen to Business History on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here.
I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health.
And I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mailroom.
And I'm Jordan, the show's producer.
And like a lot of guys, I haven't been to the doctor in many years.
I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't.
Because guys usually don't go to the doctor unless a piece of their face is hanging off or they've broken a bone.
Depends which bum.
Well, that's true.
Every week, we're breaking down the unique world of men's health, from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility and things that happen in the bedroom.
You mean sleep?
Yeah, something like that, Jordan.
We'll talk science without the jargon and get you real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about.
It's going to be fun, whether you're 27, 97, or somewhere in between.
Men's health is about more than six packs and supplements.
It's about energy. confidence, and connection.
We don't just want you to live longer.
We want you to live better.
So check out The Mailroom on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite shows.
All right, let's go back a little bit to 2008.
Probably the well, I was going to say the darkest incident, but I think the Toys R Us may be darker.
I think this one's darker because so many people were involved, yeah.
Yeah, that's true.
All right, 2008 in Valley Stream, Long Island.
It was at a Walmart, and it was 5 p.m. on Thanksgiving.
So basically people there the day before.
It wasn't one of those days where it was open on Thanksgiving.
So they're to wait until 5 am, so at least 12 hours ahead of time.
There were people, about a thousand people already set up there.
Some people are camping out in tents.
They're waiting.
They got their coffee.
They're probably slugging some Jim Beam to warm the belly.
And uh.
So the police came out and said you know what?
Let's set up a buffer zone, a barricade, which worked till about 2 AM when that was breached.
And the cops basically said, we're out of here.
This isn't part of our job.
Yeah.
The crowd had turned angry.
Um, a little bit after that.
Um, So one of the store employees had some family members come and like.
They took them out of the line and took them in the store.
Not a good idea.
Yeah.
But even if everyone in the crowd would have been cool with it, I don't think everybody in the crowd realized that they were family members of an employee.
Sure.
So the crowd actually turned like ugly.
Yeah.
They broke through the barricade and were squeezed against – you know how the stores have – and then that little glassed-in vestibule area, and then usually a second entrance to get into the store itself.
So by this time, there was about 2,000 people waiting for the store to open.
It was 4 a.m.
The store was going to open at 5.
And a couple hundred were in between this little buffer zone and those front exterior doors and being pressed up, literally crushed to death.
And there's this fascinating article in The New Yorker by a guy named John Seabrook, called Crush Point.
And it's about not just this incident but just crushings in general, where a crowd can crush somebody.
Yeah, we covered that like years ago.
It seems like it.
Yeah, totally.
But anyway, you should check out that article.
Yeah, people literally yelling, push the doors in, chanting this.
And just before 5 o'clock, it's crushed.
It's a pretty bad scene.
And workers in that vestibule area realized that there was a pregnant lady named Leanna Lockley being crushed against the doors.
And so they were like, we've got to get this lady in here.
Opened the doors enough to squeeze her through.
She got in.
And then the crowd surged forward.
And it just kind of went downhill from there.
And they still did the 10-9-8 countdown there.
Isn't that mind-boggling?
It's mind-boggling that they didn't... Well, first of all, that the cops left.
Yeah, they said apparently in a court deposition that the cops when they left said controlling this crowd is not in our job description.
Good luck.
Walmart had hired a security force of two for the event.
One person hadn't shown up.
The other one was inside the store not helping.
So they got a bunch of their stock guys, their biggest dudes that they could find, and said come stand in this vestibule and help anybody who falls down.
That's when I would have been like, dude, that's not in my job description.
Exactly.
Well, they didn't say that.
And when the doors finally opened after the festive countdown – while these people were being crushed against the front.
Unbelievable.
The doors started to open and, right when they opened, they actually gave way and were literally busted by this wave of humanity.
Yeah, and at that point, the employees, their little Red Rover line was completely ineffective.
People are getting knocked down.
Some of the workers are... getting blown out of the way some are jumping on vending machines it's ridiculous what yeah a couple of them like climbed up the coke machine yeah like get out of the way it's for safe harbor one guy who was uh in the in the way of the crowd when the doors gave way um the this article by john seabrook puts it that he was blown back yeah so again there's a vestibule there's the outer doors there's the vestibule and then there's inner doors and then there's the store This guy got blown from the outer doors all the way through the vestibule, through the inner doors, into the store by this wave of people.
2,000 people.
Yeah, just coming in all at once, all trying to get their hands on that door buster.
Yeah, like an iPod or something.
Yeah.
So that's not the end of the story, sadly.
People are getting crushed.
This pregnant woman trips over some old woman.
She's on the ground at this point pregnant yeah, leanna lockley, in danger of being, you know, trampled to death uh.
And then she somehow managed to get to her knees and saw an employee um, do you know how to pronounce his first name?
Uh, jim tay demore.
Jim tay demore.
He?
Uh was assigned to help people in case anyone fell, fell down next to her, the doors fell on top of him and 2 000 people trampled over those doors and killed him.
Yeah, he was trampled to death.
He died of asphyxiation being crushed under the door, and he was a stock guy.
At 6 am, 603 am.
He was pronounced dead one hour after the festive countdown to let people get in to shop.
And that was at the hospital an hour later, so he most likely died on the scene.
Pretty awful.
What's crazy, Chuck, if that story's not bad enough, tramplings are... actually really common yeah and like somebody might not die you might not be asphyxiated and he might not have died had he not gotten caught under the door um but the people getting knocked down if you want to see this just go onto youtube and type in black friday not even black friday tramplings just type in black friday and you will see tons of compilations of store security footage of people coming in right when the store opens on a black friday sale just climbing over one another knocking each other down some people help other people up or drag them out of the way or whatever but just as frequently people just climb over the ones who are down it for a sale it's it's insane i seriously encourage everybody to go check out some video of it yeah i can't believe that after this incident that there wasn't a law passed outlawing outright Black Friday sales.
You know?
That is not happening.
Well, but it's ridiculous because there's Economists and analysts have proven that you can have like even It's not like they'd lose money.
They would probably make more money if they didn't have these blockbuster sales.
So...
It's not like they could say, well, you're keeping me from doing my business.
I don't know.
I just can't believe they can't outlaw something like this.
So that was a pretty horrendous example of a crowd crush and a trampling.
Yeah.
But other things do happen.
You mentioned the Toys R Us in Palm Desert, California a couple of years back, right?
Yeah, that was in 2008.
These two women got in a fist fight, and then their husbands got into it.
And basically, first of all, these two men were carrying guns into a Toys R Us to Christmas shop, which is a little weird.
And they started a shootout with each other, basically.
Yeah.
And not a very skilled one, apparently.
I read about it.
One guy forgot to cock his gun.
Right.
The other guy, his didn't work either, so they start chasing each other through the store.
Through the store.
Shooting at each other.
Yeah.
Luckily, no one else died.
Right.
But those two gentlemen shot each other and died.
And at Toys R Us because their wife's got in a fist fight.
On Black Friday at a Toys R Us during Christmas shopping.
I'm surprised no one else, if they're running through the store shooting.
I think everybody cleared out of their way.
I know I wouldn't follow them around and be like, hey guys, what are you doing?
Where's the door busters?
In 2011, a woman at a Los Angeles Walmart pepper-sprayed some people in the video games.
Initially, the cops thought, well, this lady was some Black Friday jerk.
Which would make her a pretty awful person.
Yeah, but apparently the real story is and she actually got out of it was that her children were attacked punched kicked, thrown to the ground by shoppers trying to get an Xbox from these children.
And so she defended her kids by pepper spraying.
These Right, and this thing still hasn't been settled.
The most recent thing I saw was that a year on, so last year, the cops still hadn't filed charges.
So I guess they believed her story.
But she shopped anyway after that happened and bought her items.
So she pepper sprays a bunch of people, affects 20 people, causes a bit of a trampling pandemonium and then two horrible things happen after that.
One.
Like you said, the lady took her kids and her items and went to the store and checked out, bought her stuff.
Second, the people outside the immediate circle where she pepper sprayed, but still in that little area stuck around, still tried to get their hands on the sale item.
Yeah, they're like checking out, and their eyes and nose are watering.
They're just like, just ring it up.
Let me get home.
Yeah.
And then, of course, Chuck, there's the workers as well.
Well, yeah.
I mean... no one wants to work on Thanksgiving.
And this year, like we said, a lot of retailers are opening on Thanksgiving and there's really not anything they can do about it if they want to keep their job, which is really sad.
And Walmart employees planned a strike, I think, last year in 2012, and it didn't work.
Only 26 of the 4,200 stores reported striking employees.
So For fear of losing their jobs, probably they had to come to work anyway.
Well, Kmart in particular was criticized this year for opening at 6 a.m. on Thanksgiving.
And Kmart said, these people don't have to work.
We're not forcing them to work.
And their critics are saying well actually, that's not necessarily true, because you're using part-time, seasonal employees.
And there's no federal mandate that those people work. have to have holidays or time off.
So therefore, they're in a position where they either work or you can fire them legally.
Yeah.
So they kind of do have to work.
So there's a lot of ugliness on Black Friday.
But Chuck, if you are just the average normal person like my brother-in-law loves to go Black Friday shopping.
And he'll go at midnight and go to the doorbuster sales.
But he's not crazy.
Well, the majority of them don't end in violence because...
This happens all over the country, and these are isolated incidents.
So it's not like at every doorbuster sale you're going to get trampled, but there is a risk.
There is.
And the people you want to look out for.
Apparently there was a study of consumer behavior at Black Friday sales and it was a legitimate study.
Sure.
It said that you want to look out for the people who have done a lot of planning, because they exhibit – the most antisocial behavior, like shoving pushing, yelling.
Like they've got their plan in place.
Exactly.
And nothing's going to alter that.
And they feel like they've really put the time in and they're not about to lose that doorbuster item.
To some jerk who's never done it before and just showed up.
Who just lucked into line or whatever.
Oh.
You know, like, remember the famous Who concert in the 70s where the people were trampled?
Yeah, that's in that New Yorker article, too.
They got rid of general admission seating after that.
Like, why can't they do something about this?
You know, I think the law stepped in and said wait a minute.
You can't just open the doors to a concert venue and say first one in gets front row.
Do they still have general admission?
Not for big arena shows.
Oh, yeah, no.
Yeah.
Well, you know that there was like just one door open and like four others locked yeah, and people were getting crushed up against the locked doors and the people inside who are working at that concert like just never opened the doors even though people were dying.
So i can't remember what we covered that in man.
It's so like vivid in my mind from way early on because we studied the, the science of crowd surges.
I don't know what it was either, because this article is not that old.
No, it definitely wasn't about this.
It had to do with something else.
But, yeah, dirty, bad stuff.
Or you can take another approach.
Yeah, this is a different approach, you could say.
In the 1990s, an artist named Ted Dave gave birth to what's now called Buy Nothing Day, wherein people are encouraged to not buy anything for 24 hours and to fight the power and consumerism by not showing up at all.
And not just fight the power.
The guy who created Ted Dave.
He's a Vancouver guy who came up with it in the 90s.
It was also not just to stick it to the man, which I can only imagine.
If nobody bought anything in America on Black Friday, what kind of crippling effect that would have on the economy.
But he was also saying personally, that's a good day to not buy anything and be... take stock sure of how much you do maybe waste or spend or whatever yeah just think about your consumer your consumerism for one day dirty hippie and during that time like don't buy anything and don't gas up your car the night before don't get a bunch of milk the night before like just yeah just Be normal and on one day of the year, don't buy anything.
And that's Buy Nothing Day.
And it's kind of become this big thing.
Ever since AdBusters, the people who gave us Occupy Wall Street kind of found out about it and adopted it and just took the whole thing worldwide.
It's pretty amazing.
It is.
So if you go to a Black Friday sale and you see a bunch of people dressed as zombies, they're making fun of you.
They're making fun of zombie consumers.
Same with the people who are dressed as sheep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then there's Zenta Claus.
Maybe I'll do that.
Maybe I'll dress up as a sheep.
Yeah.
And just walk around and buy in people's faces.
Yeah.
And then if I'm there, I might, you know, pick up a laptop.
Right.
There's also credit card cut up stations.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Where you can get rid of your credit card and it's just consumerism.
Yeah.
And then there's the, my favorite, the, what is it?
The Whirly Gig Conga line.
Oh, I haven't heard of that.
Is that to disrupt shoppers?
The whole point is to just kind of serve as a mirror, I think, to people.
Like, look at yourselves.
You're ridiculous.
You think I look stupid?
You're the one that looks stupid.
Right.
We're not even buying anything.
But yeah, so it's kind of a twofold thing.
It's one like just kind of reflecting personally slash, sticking it to the man as an individual consumer, like realizing your power in the grand scheme of things is all kind of hinges on you spending your money.
And if you don't, then you're taking the power back or pointing out to other people just how ridiculous they're being as consumers.
People probably be like, where'd you get that cheap costume?
Right, exactly.
What all was that on?
Nice um, so i've got, uh.
One last thing.
Uh, i noticed the other day i'd never heard of this before.
In china, you think we like to shop, chinese love to shop, and they have something that they have created called singles day.
Okay, and it is on november 11th.
So 11, 11.
The four ones stand for single people and they're basically like hey, because in china, i think, you're encouraged to marry.
So this is like hey, be single, go out and treat yourself to something online and buy something, because it's singles day and you should celebrate being single, really.
And it's a huge deal they spent.
Uh well, this e-commerce platform in china called alibaba is the one who really got behind it recently, and they spent 57 billion dollars on singles day this year, which dwarfs cyber monday by three times, almost.
Wow, And it's the biggest online shopping day in the world.
And in the first six minutes.
This year, just a couple of weeks ago, they spent 160 million in the first six minutes.
Wow.
Online in China.
Jeez.
Just to celebrate being single.
And they're encouraged to shop for themselves, which I don't think we pointed out.
A lot of people on Black Friday when –
When asked, say they do some of the shopping for themselves.
It's not all gifts.
It's like, I want that laptop.
I think 47 or 41 of people who said they're going to shop on Black Friday said they'll do most of the shopping for themselves.
I usually do that.
Whenever I go out genuinely Christmas shopping, I'll pick up something for myself.
These people are saying they're mostly shopping for themselves.
Mostly, but I'll just treat myself to a little something.
A little something modest.
And I want to say, Chuck, we don't begrudge anybody going to Black Friday sales.
If that's your thing, enjoy it.
That's fine.
Just act like a human being.
Yeah, don't take anyone's life.
No.
Don't trample over somebody who's fallen down.
And most importantly, have a very nice Thanksgiving.
Enjoy the people you're with, whether they're friends family, old acquaintances, new acquaintances.
Take some time to really enjoy this thanksgiving day and relax and and just be.
I agree, my friend yeah, it's thanksgiving.
Be with your family, turn off your smartphone, maybe even wow, really get crazy and just be in the moment.
Yeah, how about that?
Um, and we give you permission to shout down anybody who says that uh, tryptophan is what makes you sleepy.
That's right, you go ahead and set them straight, Yep.
Happy Turkey Day, Americans and other parts of the world.
Whatever you're doing, I hope you're well.
Yeah.
Nice, Chuck.
And Chuck, we should say that, as usual, if everyone wants to send us happy Thanksgiving wishes, you can send us an email directly to stuffpodcast at iheartradiocom.
Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app.
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
On this week's episode of Next Chapter, I, T.D.
Jakes, sit down with Denzel Washington, a two-time Academy Award winning actor and cultural icon.
I don't take any credit for it.
I just didn't put... first.
I've just put God first and he's carrying me.
Listen to the next chapter podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
New episodes drop weekly.
Hi, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally.
And I'm Hari Kondabolu.
On our new podcast, Health Stuff, we demystify your burning health questions.
You'll hear us being completely honest about our own health.
My residency colon was like a cry for help, honestly.
And you'll hear candid advice and personal stories from experts who want to make healthcare more human.
I feel like I never felt like I truly belonged in medicine.
We want to make health less confusing and maybe even a little fun.
Find Health Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News keeps you on top of the biggest stories of the day.
My fellow Americans, this is liberation day.
Stories that move markets.
Chair Powell opened the door to this first interest rate cut.
Impact politics.
Change businesses.
This is a really stunning development for the AI world.
And how you think about your bottom line.
Listen to The Big Take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon.
This is an iHeart Podcast.
Guaranteed human.
