Second Drink: Grief Counseling | Office Ladies

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Hello and welcome to the Second Drink for Grief Counseling.

Angela, you left me a message last week about this Second Drink share for today.

And all you would say is that you could not believe what you found.

You wouldn't tell me any other details so I literally have no idea what you're about to share, but I can wait no longer.

OK, I am pretty excited about this.

So you guys remember when we first broke down the episode not only did we discuss the fact that the Dunder Mifflin employees were having a bird funeral, but we both had crazy bird stories of our own.

Mine happened while I was re -watching Grief Counseling while I was preparing for the breakdown.

Yours happened, while you were actually recording this very podcast. I'm not gonna spoil the stories, I want you to hear them in real time.

They do involve some birds, a squirrel, and a cat, that's all I'm gonna say.

Yes, my incident is cemented in our recording of grief counseling, because not to spoil anything, but my daughter pops into the podcast. We still talk about it.

It was just really strange timing like all of it, but how does that connect to what you have to share?

I'm so curious. Well, apparently, there are many of our listeners who believe that this particular podcast breakdown of grief counseling is cursed.

I could not believe how many people wrote in about it and they all have the craziest bird stories associated with listening to us break down grief counseling.

Okay wait, so when you were preparing grief counseling you had a bird incident.

When we were recording grief counseling I had a bird incident and now you're telling me that listeners had bird incidents while listening to grief counseling.

Am I getting this right?

You're getting this right.

Okay. So, apparently grief counseling altogether is cursed for birds.

I have so many. Let's start with Darth underscore Gandalf, who wrote in to say, I wanted to reach out to tell you about what happened while listening to the grief counseling podcast episode after Angela told us about how a squirrel killed a bird. And then Jenna's cat had a burden its mouth.

A bird flew into my window.

What? It wounded its wing, but ended up being okay.

but I thought that was so crazy and I needed to share.

I love you guys so much. Oh my goodness.

I guess that does kind of - I guess that kind of spoils what is in the episode.

You'll still hear it.

Next person was at Hatch Jolene, who wrote in to say, I just listened to this one recently and as I was listening to it, my kids caught my dog killing a bird. Oh my God, this is terrible.

Amy Barbie wrote in to say, I listened to this episode yesterday and in the same night my dogs killed a pheasant.

This is so creepy. Tara Jade 101 said, I absolutely love your podcast but this episode is definitely cursed.

My cat has never in all caps killed a bird and brought it back to my house until I was listening to this episode.

Lady, this is nuts.

I know, I'm not even done.

Kristen Powers wrote in and said, Y 'all I finished this podcast episode this morning and decided to head to our community pool for a little while afterward. There was, in all caps, a freaking dead bird floating in the water!

Then she put three emojis, scary face, vomit face, crying face.

I don't know what is up with you guys and the bird curse, but I hope it's over soon.

Sideways laughing face.

EPnetter wrote in and said, I'm behind but had to share.

I just finished listening to Grief Counseling while going for a run and at the very end, finishing up the last stretch of my run, I passed a dead cardinal on the sidewalk.

What is up? Fitting right in with the theme.

Oh my gosh, this is someone who listened to later.

It doesn't matter apparently when you listen.

Bethany, 0301 said, this episode is cursed.

Just getting around to listening to this episode on my walk this morning and finishing up.

I passed a dead yellow bird on the sidewalk that was not there when I began my walk.

Okay, Jamiegirl19 said, I ended up listening to the podcast episode a few days late, but the night I listened to it, my mom saw a hawk eating a dove in her back yard. Lastly, Megatron wrote in and said, oh my God, I never comment on anything like this, but I am so creeped out.

I was listening to this episode on a run and there were two dead birds on my path.

What is happening? Lady should we even be rerunning it?

I don't know. I don't know.

Isn't that so crazy?

Oh my gosh. Okay, well.

Well, I guess here is our second drink of grief counseling.

Yeah, and hopefully it won't have the same bird curse effect this time around.

Good luck everyone.

I'm Jenna Fischer. And I'm Angela Kinsey.

We were on The Office together.

And we're best friends.

And now we're doing the ultimate office rewatch podcast just for you.

Each week we will break down an episode of The Office and give exclusive behind the scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you.

We're the Office Ladies.

Hi, everybody. Hello.

Welcome to Office Ladies.

I'm so excited about this episode.

It's so good, right?

Yeah, and we, we reached out to lots of folks.

So we have some fun, fun stuff.

This is Grief Counseling.

And guys, if we can get you depressed by the end of this podcast, we ve done our job.

Oh, Michael. It s season 3, Episode 4, written by Jen Salata and directed by Roger Nygaard. Jen Salata is one of my favorite people, Jenna.

100%. She is just such a delight.

And was so much fun on set because she would always crack up.

Oh, yeah, she was one of our worst laughers, which made her the best laugher.

Yeah. Hey, Jenna, you know what I'd love right now?

I hope it's a summary.

It's a summary. Woot, woot.

All right, here it is.

Michael finds out that his former boss, Ed Trucke, was decapitated in a self -induced drunk driving accident.

Nobody seems upset though or certainly not upset enough, which causes Michael to question if anyone would care about his death.

Of course, he doesn't know that that's what he's worried about.

Yeah, he doesn't understand really the depths of his sadness.

Yes. He wants everyone to love him and be sad for him if he wasn't around.

Make a fuss about him.

Well, first he leads everyone in some grief counseling, but then later he forces everyone to participate in a bird funeral.

Meanwhile, over in Stanford, Jim is put in charge of supervising Karen for the day, but decides to put their work on hold so they can search for her favorite bag of chips.

Oh, we're gonna have so much to say about that.

This is a really odd tangent, and I don't mean to take this really weird, really fast. Do it.

Jenna, while I was re -watching this episode, I hear a commotion outside of my That's What She Shed.

No. And a squirrel is eating a little bird. That's worse than what I thought you were going to say?

Yeah. And so I was like, wait, what's he eating?

What's he eating? I start filming it.

I have video of me filming the squirrel, and in the background, you can hear grief counseling in a bird funeral.

Oh, my God. it was so crazy, but apparently squirrels are like an opportunist. If there's a little bird's nest, they go for a baby bird, they do it.

Squirrels are terrible.

Everyone thinks they're so cute because of their fluffy tails, but they're awful.

Look it up everybody, squirrels carry more disease than rats.

Look it up. Okay, sorry, but it just was kind of crazy that I was watching an episode that had a bird funeral and then I saw a squirrel attack a bird. it was crazy.

Yeah okay how do we get back from that?

Hit me with some fast facts.

Alright, fast fact number one.

This episode was written by Jen Salata.

We said that and Angela reached out to Jen for this episode.

Yes, Jen and I traded emails and texts and she was so much fun to talk to about this episode.

She was so excited to share information and so she sent in a whole bunch of audio clips that we are gonna play, and she is gonna come back as a full, awesome guest for maybe two episodes coming up, Jenna.

Ooh. Ooh. We're trying to figure out scheduling and what not, but she is in, and I cannot wait.

Well let's play her hello audio clip, Sam.

Okay. Hey guys it's Jen, I miss you.

I'm loving your podcast. I am learning so much. I had no idea of the drama behind the scenes of Booze Cruise where you are floating away at Sea Angela with Phyllis and Rainn and Brian.

Amazing, anyway, I'm loving it and I'm going to answer some grief counseling questions.

So I'll send them in separate audio files.

Isn't it nice to hear her voice, Ang?

I love her voice. I find her voice really soothing.

Now, listen, we were chatting back and forth and I was listening to her voice a lot and Jen, I think you have real good podcast voice.

I know, Jen, are you doing voiceover work?

Like I'd buy anything you're selling with your voice or just call me and talk to me at the end of my day Just leave me a message every day.

Just kind of telling me what you did Yeah I will listen to that as I like do the dishes I agree and Angela in one of the clips that Jen sent she Explains a little bit about the process of writing this episode for her, right?

Yeah. It's so it's so fascinating Sam Can you play it enjoy Jen's voice everyone one thing about this episode?

that really stuck with me personally was, it was a thrill because it was hard to tell stories on other shows about characters going through internal things.

And in this case, with Michael, it was even more than that because this character was going through something internal and he was unaware of it, which made it really exciting to write because I love internal stories, but it also made it kind of difficult to explain at times.

And I remember that I created a little chart where it said, here's what Michael is doing and saying in the scene, and then in bold under it, I wrote what was actually happening to Michael underneath it all.

And of course, Steve got it all intuitively and he's a genius.

It was such a treat to be able to write and tell that kind of story.

And then Jenna, to have you be aware of what it was that was going on with Michael, to have Pam sort of sense it and see it and fix it without it being spoken was just such a delight as a writer.

Isn't that amazing?

I love it, I love that she had like secret notes and charts in her script about the emotional journey of characters.

Yeah, I find all of that so interesting, just like the writer's process and what she wrote and how then it ended up playing.

Oh my gosh, Angela, I just realized something.

What? She was tracking.

She was tracking. tracking Michael's emotional journey.

She tracked it. All right, well, we are gonna hear more from Jen throughout the episode.

So Jenna, why don't you fast fact me?

Okay, I'm calling fast fact number two, the big fight.

Oh, you did a shoulder shimmy.

I know, are you intrigued?

I am. In Mindy Kaling's book, Is Everyone Hanging Out Without Me?

She writes a chapter about working on the office and being a writer and also being a performer.

and she said in her book that she and Greg Daniels got into such a huge fight during this episode now that she stormed off the set she kicked his car yes but rather than have me read you the passage Angela wouldn't you rather hear it in Mindy's voice yes well guess what why there's an audio book oh oh my god oh my Oh my god, hit play Sam, I wanna hear it!

All right here is the clip from the audiobook of Is Everyone Hanging Out Without Me and Other Concerns?

It's published by Penguin Random House LLC and read by Mindy Kaling.

I tend to fight with Greg the most. My friend and fellow office writer Steve Healy believes it is because I am emotional and intuitive and Greg is more cerebral and logical.

Or, as I like to think of it, I am a sensitive poet and Greg is a mean robot.

Our fighting is legendary.

One time late at night our script coordinator Sean and our head writer Danny both brought in their dogs, and upon seeing each other they got into a violent barking fight.

Paul Lieberstein glanced over and joked, Oh, I thought that was just Greg and Mindy.

What do we fight about?

I wish I could say they were big, smart philosophical issues about writing or comedy, but sometimes they're as small as, it.

If we do that cold open where Kevin dumps a terrine of chili on himself I will quit this show.

We did that cold open by the way and it was a hit and I'm still working at the show.

I can get a little theatrical.

Which makes sense because after all, I came up through the theater, said in my snootiest masterpiece theater voice.

I will tell you about the worst fight we ever had.

In a very heated rewrite session for the season three episode Grief Counseling, I was arguing with Greg so much he finally said in front of all 12 writers, If you're going to resist what I'm doing here, you can just go home, Mindy.

Greg never sends anyone home, or even hints at it.

Greg is the kind of guy who is so agreeable I frequently find him on our studio lot embroiled in some long boring conversation with a random person while his lunch is getting cold in his to -go container.

And he's the boss. I would never talk to anyone if I was the boss.

I would only talk to my attorney and my psychic.

So anyway, my very nice boss had just hugely reprimanded me.

Gregg suggesting I go home unless I adjusted my attitude was the harshest he'd ever been to anyone in the three years I'd been on the show.

There was silence. No one looked at me.

People pretended to be absorbed in their phones.

One writer didn't even have a phone, he just pretended to be absorbed in his hand.

I was so embarrassed and angry that I got up, stomped out of the room, stole a twenty -four pack of bottled water from the production office kicked the bumper of Greg's car and left the studio.

Is that amazing? It's amazing.

I love the detail that she took a 24 pack of water.

Like, oh, I'm leaving.

I am leaving. But I'm going to be hydrated.

Well, listen, she goes on to say that after this, she went to a nail salon to get a pedicure.

And the woman asked her, oh, do you have the day off?

And Mindy was like, no, my boss threw me out of work.

And the woman was like, oh, you got fired.

And that's when Mindy was like, oh, wait, wait, what am I doing here?

And she drove back to work and she told everyone she'd been in the bathroom.

But Angela, she did keep that water.

Good for you Mindy.

Her book is so fantastic.

I own this book. It is hilarious.

It is a great read.

Mindy, thank you so much for letting us use a little excerpt from it.

And you have to come on the show.

And she is guys, cause I texted her and she's coming on just wait.

coming out we won't say when, but it's happening it's soon you guys if you're looking for entertainment right now give it a try the audio book is available on the penguin house audio website and soundcloud .com and thank you to penguin Random House for letting us play the clip I love knowing that this was going on in the backdrop of us filming this episode you're kicking a car you're taking water, Jin Salata is on set cracking up, what is happening in the fast fact number three.

I mean I don't know how you beat one in two but go for it.

Well I'm not sure I will, but I got a little scoop from Kentipedia about this episode.

All right on the first shoot day of this episode, Kent reminded me that we had our big season three photo shoot for NBC.

Where we did a big cast photo shoot, we did individual photos all in character.

And since there weren't a lot of scenes happening in the break room that's what we use for the photo shoot.

I don't know if you remember it Angela.

I do. They set up a desk and then they would switch out the props on the desk and we would take single photos.

Yeah. And I have this very stern single photo of me holding a pencil and a pad of paper with a drawing on it that I have never felt properly represents the character of Pam because I think I look like, I think I look like a teacher who's ready to scold you in this photo as opposed to a woman going through a life -altering journey of love and expression.

I have a photo of me looking very stern in a sort of a severe ponytail and I'm holding up a card with a cat on it.

Mm -hmm. Well then they took the desks away and they loaded the break room with paper boxes, and we all posed in front of them.

Do you remember that one?

I do, because it was actually a very small space, and when they got us all in there, they then couldn't figure out how to get us all in the photo.

Yeah. We were so jam -packed.

So they had tiered these boxes like a little pyramid, and guess who had to crawl up to the tippity top and is at the very top, and really, I just looked like a very tiny floating head in the way back of the photo.

It's me. Well, then they moved us all over to the warehouse.

Do you remember this and they made a rain paper on us.

They blew paper in a giant fan This was a little insane because it took I mean, I can't even remember how many times to blow the paper Yeah, I have a great photo from this day I don't know who took it actually but it's in between whenever they blew the paper in the air Then they'd have to stop and reset it.

Yeah, they'd have to pick up all the paper from the ground Yeah, and then someone would have to bring it back and toss it back in the air, right?

So it was like a 20 minute turnaround between these setups.

And in between the setups, we all had to just stay there in the warehouse.

We're like on the loading dock area.

Right. Yeah. And I'm in my skirt and my blouse, my severe ponytail.

And I squat down ladylike in a skirt.

You know how you can tuck your skirt up in your leg and squat down.

So you're not ruining the mystery for anyone.

Sure. You said sure, like you weren't sure.

I squat down in my Angela Martin outfit to talk to Paul Lieberstein.

So there's this great photo of everyone sort of milling about in between this paper setup, and I'm squatting down, so completely out of character, talking to Paul.

I love it. Well it was really crazy because we would have to shoot these whole episodes but then also like when they would be setting up a new scene, we would run off to the warehouse and take pictures with the paper coming down on us.

Yeah it was bizarre.

It was super, it was super bizarre.

And when Kent wrote me and reminded me of that, it all kind of came flooding back like, oh yeah.

Yeah. I can remember how weird that was.

Yeah. Well listen, should we take a break and then get into this episode?

Let's do it. Let's do it.

All right. We'll be right back.

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Alright. So, we're back.

We are in the bullpen.

That's what we would call the big main room where, you know, Michael would always come out and talk to everyone and he is doing a bit, guys.

He has stacked up some boxes of paper.

Jenna, now that I remember that we're doing the photo shoot, I feel like those were the boxes that were in the break room that we took pictures on.

I'm not even kidding.

They very may well have been.

So Michael's doing that classic like stairs or escalator bit, you know, where you stack up a bunch of stuff and then you slowly just kind of crouch down, and Dwight thinks it is the funniest thing he's ever seen.

Oh, Reign's reaction is like if you showed that to a 5 year old.

Yeah, yeah. But at Glee, and just this is the best joke he's ever seen.

Ever seen. It is. And also he's laughing as if he's never heard of it.

Yeah, this is all needed.

He made it to be an adult man and has never seen the fake stairs bit But you know I think you know in this episode Pam is a little bit of the gym Pam has taken on the jokester role Right yeah, so Ryan and Kevin join in they ask him to get little things like a pen.

You know, but then Pam Showing a little bit of Pam sass is like how about a cup of coffee?

How about you get me a cup of coffee and Michaels like?

Eh. Well, I have a lot to say about this cold open, Ang.

Oh, I want to hear it.

First of all, this was not the original cold open in the script.

Somebody has the original script.

I've got a shooting draft of grief counseling.

Let's hear it. The original cold open was in Stanford. It involved, yeah, and it involved a coworker of Jim wanting him to look at photos of her baby.

Oh, oh, I saw this in a deleted scene.

And she gets really put out with him because she shows him a picture of her husband and the baby in the bathtub.

And Jim is like, finds it off -putting, he's like, oh God, they're in the bathtub.

And she's like, oh, you know what, come back to me when you have kids, okay?

She gets really mad at him.

Well, this was the original Cold Open.

this cold open was added later and we shot it at the end of the week because it was an ad and we had all those boxes we had all those boxes from our photo shoot oh my gosh I wonder if they were inspired they were like wait I know we should do these boxes just stacked in the middle of the soundstage we got it yeah a lot of people wrote in and said oh my gosh how many takes did you guys do of this cold open because if you notice Steve looks like he's like sweating when he brings Pam her coffee.

He is sweating his butt off.

He is so tired. Kent told me we did ten takes.

Oh no! Ten times! And every time we did a take Steve went up and down the stairs three times.

Oh my god! He's Steve!

So, he did that 30 times.

He was getting like a major like one of those like your quads says the person who never works out what are those called?

Your quads. He was getting like he was probably some quad and glute.

quad and glute and then he had to crawl around?

Anyone? You're a poor guy.

And Kent also told me that we actually did six different camera setups for the scene because they had to move the camera in different places to do the shot when he's crawling, when he goes inside the kitchen, for his talking head, which is technically part of it.

So yeah, but he walked up and down the stairs 30 times.

Oh my gosh, Steve, your butt.

It must've been so sore.

Well, I have two, two little things in this opening scene.

First of all, at 51 seconds, I think Angela kind of smiles.

Oh, when Pam says get a cup of coffee, Angela kind of has a smile.

Like there is a brief moment where I think she's on your side.

I just wanted that to be documented.

Oh. And then I have a great fan catch. At one minute, 27 seconds.

Ready for this? Yeah.

Kelly and Chloe Harrigan and Shannon Rajowski, they wrote in and they noticed that when Michael returns from the kitchen when he's crawling on the ground, that that is Jim's coffee mug.

That's the coffee mug that Jim always uses.

Oh my gosh, yes! Isn't that a great catch?

And I was like, I wonder if that was a little nod to Jim so that Jim's presence got to be in Scranton for a little moment.

I love that. Great catch, guys, great catch. Alright so then we move into Michael's office, and he's on the phone with Jan. Who informs him that they have lost Ed Truk.

And then Michael's like, well I have his number somewhere.

I can find it for you.

Yeah and she's like, no Michael, Ed Truk has died.

He goes out into the room, he breaks the news to everybody, Kelly rushes up gives them a hug.

Oh we have a special appearance by Kelly's extensions and her bangs, they make a special appearance.

They are hugging Michael giving him some comfort and then Michael approaches Pam for a little awkward hug.

So awkward and lady I have a track moment I'm tracking it.

What are you tracking?

You know I love to track the plants at front reception.

Are there more new plants?

Well whatever happens to them they make an appearance and then we never see them again.

At three minutes 29 seconds I am pretty that's a succulent.

We have a succulent.

Succulent alert! Succulent alert at front reception, we'll probably never see it again, but when Michael hugs Pam awkwardly you get a nice shot of that succulent.

I'm not kidding, I really need to start a spreadsheet, a really complex spreadsheet.

All the things we're tracking.

Mm -hmm. Well next we move over to the Stanford office and a staff This meeting becomes very awkward when Josh is super sexist and condescending to Karen.

Oh, he was. He sort of just totally dismissed her.

I know. Yeah, seriously, and then he puts Jim in charge of her for the day.

Oh, gross. Oh my gosh.

Gross, Josh. This is like a physical representation of mansplaining, I feel like.

You know, it's just Jenna check in on that Yeah, why don't you oversee that?

Why don't you check in on that and she's like, yeah.

Yeah. Thanks. Yeah.

Thanks Well, we had a fan catch from Brandon He says at three minutes and 42 seconds when Karen is flipping through her stack of papers I think I see a page from the script in her note.

Oh oh yeah she's got a little script page we used to do that remember and we used to hide pages in our notebooks I used to keep them in a drawer like in between takes I would open my drawer and I would be like okay wait did I get it did I get it to get it and I shut my drawer again yes we had scripts hidden everywhere on that set yeah that we could just peek at between scenes to make sure we were like on our lines or if we wanted to prep right before.

I mean, obviously we had worked on them and we knew our lines, but when you're doing a bunch of takes, sometimes you're like, oh, wait, crap, what was that?

And you just wanna do a quick peek.

But also, you know, they would have their writers draft and then we would read it at a table read and then they would make a bunch of changes and they would start on Monday with what was called the shooting draft and that's what I have. I have a bunch of shooting drafts left over, but every single morning we would arrive to work and there would be a stack of new pages.

They were rewritten scenes just for that day.

They would hand you the pages sometimes that morning and be like, okay, here we go, guys.

These are changes for the day.

You better believe we were hiding pages in our desks and notebooks, but yes, Brandon, you saw one.

That just tickled me, because that is so true.

That was a good catch. Okay, so now at four minutes, two seconds, Karen is really disappointed, you guys, because the chips that she likes, they're not in the vending machine.

But I think Jim felt bad at the way Josh treated her.

And he now wants to make amends, right?

He wants to try to help her find these potato chips.

And this whole scene about Karyn and her potato chips just got me thinking about Rashida's breakfast order.

Okay. Do you remember her breakfast order?

No. Okay. Well we often were in hair and makeup together at the same time and I texted her because I was like Rashida i totally just had this memory of your breakfast order.

here was the great thing about our caterer Sergio first of all he was amazing but if your order became kind of popular if other people liked it you would get your name on the menu yeah you would you would walk up to the truck to order breakfast in the morning food truck and you could order a Rashida Angela size because I always wanted everything half -portion because it's big there the portions were big and I'm a little person so I'd always say can I have half of that so they started calling it Angela size so here's what the Rashida was and Sergio I ran into Sergio a while back because I was working

on a Netflix show and he was the caterer for it for Mindy show never have I ever he was a caterer yeah Mindy hired him, which was fantastic, we had a little mini office reunion, and here's the Rashida, which you can still order from Sergio.

Ready? Yes. A corn tortilla, poached egg, black beans, avocado, turkey bacon, cholula on the side.

And I was texting with Rashida about it, she was like, I don't even know how I functioned after eating that.

Like, why should I have just gone and taken a nap, but that's the Rashida.

And I can get that Angela size if I'm not that yeah, I'd like the Rachita Angela size, please Oh my gosh that brought back so many memories Molly neck wrote in to say guys you can see her favorite chips in the vending machine slot B 1 okay, so there's a row of potato chips in the vending machine, but Apparently those aren't the ones that Karen once yes, Karen wants salt and vinegar potato chips I did a mini deep dive on hers potato chips and And Philadelphia Magazine did a ranking of all the HERS potato chips, and salt and vinegar was their number one chip.

So it might make sense that it was hard to find, because it's the number one chip.

Close behind was Cheddar horseradish.

Pam's favorite sour cream and onion was number four.

Our favorite is their barbecue chips.

I love their HERS barbecue chips.

I don't know where that is in the ranking.

Okay. I'm sorry. I didn't look that one up.

Okay. But I do have a script catch for you as well.

We're not done talking about this yet.

In the shooting draft of the script, her favorite chips were going to be salsa verde Doritos.

Wow! So here we go.

We're going back to Scranton and Creed is in Michael's office with Dwight and Michael, and he tells them that Ed was decapitated.

And Michael's like, and he goes, yeah, he was flying down the road.

He'd been drinking.

And I guess he ran into a semi truck, right.

And was decapitated.

Yeah, Angela, we got a lot of mail about this scene with Creed, okay?

There is a very, very big debate online over whether or not Creed, the character is making it up that Ed was decapitated or if it's the truth.

The truth within the show.

And, you know, Creed told some crazy stories both on camera and off camera.

So I can see where this sort of like controversy, if you will, around Creed's retelling of this as a truth is not.

Fiona, Danielle, Kelly, Danny, Mackenzie, Adam, and Valerie, they all said, how did Creed know the details of Ed Trucks death if Michael was the first to know from corporate?

So their theory is that Creed's making it up cause there's no possible way for him to know more details than Michael.

And then Maria pointed out that Creed lies later in another episode and says that Dwight was decapitated.

That's in the episode, The Return.

So she's like, maybe Creed is just obsessed with decapitation because he's a weird character.

I don't know. Well, here's the thing.

I love that you guys were all writing back and forth about this.

I think that because Creed knew Ed, he actually knew Ed. maybe there was someone he called.

But we decided, hey, let's go to the source.

Let's ask Jen Salata, was this story made up by Creed the character or was it truth in the sort of scope of the show?

Did this really happen?

So here's what Jen had to say.

Did Ed Truc really get decapitated?

Sadly for Ed Truc, he did really get decapitated.

It sounds like a Creed story but it actually was a true story in the world of our show.

there's no ed truck and he didn't really lose his head.

However, in the world of The Office, he did get decapitated for real.

I think it was Greg that came up with the decapitation.

I can't quite remember and Greg can't remember, but I remember spending a lot of time talking about the way Michael's former boss would die and how it had to be something very sudden and jarring so that it could be a shock to Michael Scott's system that he could just freak out one day because he's just living his life and going into the office and then all of a sudden he could be dead.

So I think that is where the decapitation came from.

Unfortunately I also can't remember who came up with.

His Capa was dictated from his head.

I feel like it wasn't me because I would have been really proud of it if it was me and I'd remember that.

But yeah, the decapitation was real for Ed Trucke.

Sorry Ed Trucke. There you have it, Ed Trucke really got decapitated.

Creed actually got some facts that Michael didn't know.

This is the slippery slope with Creed, and let me tell you, this is true in real life.

And how's this character?

He'll say something and you're like, that's not true.

And then it's 100 % true.

And then he'll say something else and it's total BS.

So welcome to the world of Creed.

That is true. Well after this, Michael decides to break the news to the whole office.

I love the little couplet, I just loved it.

I watched it over and over of Michael being like, I don't know how to tell you this.

and then Dwight is like, Ed Truck was decapitated.

He goes, what? I was like, what are you doing?

He's like, you said you didn't know how to say it.

You said, you didn't know how to say it, Dwight is so literal, right?

So literal, yeah. Oh my God, it made me laugh so hard too.

Well Lady, I want to talk about something in this scene because at five minutes, 38 seconds.

I wrote down Angela's face.

What'd they do? I feel like in this moment you have what I would consider to be a quintessential Angela reaction.

You made so many sour faces on our show.

And they are so funny to me because I never see you make these faces in real life.

They are so not your personality, but they have been turned into memes.

You are known for this, just disapproving look.

But it's like it's just funny to me because in real life you are nothing like this.

You know, people write in and say, oh, you have resting bitch face.

You've heard that expression, right, RBF.

But now they're just calling it resting Angela Martin face, like resting Angela face.

But this is cracking me up right now, like in a whole different way, because I am doing the show called Be Our Chef.

You know, I'm hosting this family cooking competition.

Lady, you know, I know this.

We watch it. We watch it religiously.

My kids love the show.

You guys, it's a cooking show.

It's on Disney+. You have to watch it.

It's families cooking and competing and Angela's the host and it is just the sweetest most uplifting most just pure fun.

Oh, that is so sweet.

Here's the thing my family's doing so you're saying that you froze on my face making the sour face Yeah My family keeps doing Like freezing the screen when I'm making the weirdest faces I guess in Be Our Chef, I have learned that I talk really animated and I move my hands around and I it's like I'm Jim Carrey.

My kids think I look crazy most of the time on Be Our Chef and their favorite thing now is to screen grab it and text me.

I'm loving it and Angela, I have to say, this last Friday when it came on I was like guys, guys we're gonna watch Be Our Chef and Angela's aunt and my daughter goes, you really love Angela.

Ah, she is your best friend and I said she is my best That is so sweet.

I know I know. Okay.

So yes, I make weird faces everybody.

I make weird faces While we're talking about my weird faces Jenna in the scene where Dwight asked Angela to put his head on ice, right?

Oh, yes. Okay. This is around five minutes 44 seconds right at the top of the scene I'm getting something out of the vending machine.

Did you notice my jacket?

yeah lady I have the same time code 5 minutes 44 seconds I wrote Angela Wardrobe what's up?

I know. what is up with your very odd short -sleeved jacket?

what is this item? it is a short - it's a - can it be purchased or was this made for you?

I think someone purchased it or found it in a warehouse like NBC but it is a Short -sleeve pinstriped kind of like a dress jacket and I jokingly called it to wardrobe my Janet Jackson Jacket because do you remember I loved Janet Jackson and do you remember rhythm nation her album yellow nation, okay?

Watch the music video of the song all right.

She is wearing this pinstriped Jacket course mine was short -sleeve hers was like regular, but we jokingly called this to the wardrobe department my Janet Jackson I don't know it was so weird it was weird it was it was like short sleeve.

I'm sorry to whoever designed it but it's like your short sleeve blouse is peeking out underneath your short sleeve jacket it's an odd.

It's a total mess it's a total mess but it makes it makes me laugh to look back on it.

It a little bit reminds me of something that you might see on Project Runway when they had to, like, make a jacket out of another jacket, but they had to, like, reimagine the jacket.

Re -imagine the jacket, and they just made it a short -sleeve jacket, and they were voted off.

Yeah, pretty much. All right, guys, so then we have a pretty adorable Dwight talking head, where he says that he wants to be frozen when he dies even if they have to do it in pieces.

Even if he is decapitated, he wants to be frozen, because he will wake up stronger than ever, and he will've been able to use that time to figure out how he died and how he could've better defended himself.

Yeah, yeah, he's thought it through.

He's thought it through.

I love those talking heads.

Angela does not wanna participate in this.

She doesn't want to.

No. So now Michael is on the phone with Jan, and he really doesn't understand why they have a day honoring Martin Luther King when he didn't even work at Dunder Mifflin.

Yeah, but Ed Truck sat at his same desk and has died and Jan's like, okay, listen, do you wanna just give everyone the day off?

And he's like, you don't get these people, they wouldn't want that.

No, they don't wanna go home.

What they want is a robot statue of Ed Truck.

The eyes light up, that's what they want.

Well we had a fan question here from Sierra.

When Michael is on the phone with Jan and has an article with a picture of himself and Ed on the desk in front of him, he slowly drags the corner of an envelope down to cover Ed's head, you know, because he then decapitated.

Was that scripted? Yes!

That action was scripted.

It was in the script.

And then, of course, you see they made the camera made sure to capture it.

So smart, so smart, so thought out.

Well, I really thought Dwight's drawing of the Robot with the six -foot extension cord to the wall so it couldn't attack them I thought that was fantastic and smart I wanted to know who drew it But we probably don't know do we we don't know we had fan questions about that, too And and I tried to find out but I couldn't get the answer for you.

I'm sorry, that's alright I don't think it will rain drew it in the back just quickly on a notepad.

I'm sure But I feel I feel like I can say with 99 % certainty.

It was not rain I I feel like rain might have doodled on it during the scene, but the original drawing was not rain.

Yes. Okay. Now we have to go back over to Stanford. I actually texted Ed Helms. I said Ed you just made me do the snort laugh so hard because here we are, Jim and Karen are still trying to find these chips.

They're having a hard time.

But Jim's like we're not gonna quit and she's like I'm not a quitter and then Andy's like what uh, what's the game?

what are we playing I'm in and they tell him we can't find the chips and he's like did you check the vending machine they're like oh uh no actually we checked the fax machine and you see how pissed off andy gets at them because he knows he knows they're being smartasses and he just looks at them so seriously and goes did you check your butt he turns around it made me laugh it made me laugh so hard I like watched it twice back to back because I was like oh my god and then And I texted Ed, I said, Ed you are so funny in this scene, I texted him the line and he was like, we were like trading texts

about it, just cracking up.

Well that line is in the script.

I went and looked, I had to know.

But I don't know if you noticed in this scene, seven minutes, 35 seconds, the smile post -it is gone from Jim's computer.

You've been tracking that post -it lady.

I've been tracking it.

Gone. All right and I don't know if you notice, I mean, he's acting more like Jim now, right?

Like he's got a little thing, he's dazzling a lady with his charm.

He's getting more comfortable.

Yeah, he's more comfortable and he has an adventure within work, right?

That's kind of like this is a boring job to Jim.

So he always has to find a distraction to get him through the day.

Jim's the guy who makes work more fun, right?

With his little things like this that he does.

so he's back to his old ways.

Back at the Scranton branch, Michael is just obsessed now.

He just can't stop thinking about Ed Truk and he's really starting to internalize it about himself, right, like what if I were gone?

No one cares here, no one cares.

And he decides that they probably need some grief counseling.

They're in denial. Yeah, he wants us to know the stages of grief Mm -hmm, and he feels like it's his job to take us through them He doesn't know if he can get us all the way to acceptance But if he can get us depressed he will have done his job.

It's such a great line.

It's such a good line I have a really great little tidbit right here.

What is it? Okay, so In the deleted scenes Toby is actually a trained grief counselor Okay.

Yes, and so you know, Dwight's like, Toby should probably lead us through this.

He's a trained grief counselor.

And Toby starts to walk them through the steps, they're in the conference room, and Michael's like, ah, you're ruining everything, it's gonna take me forever to undo what you've done.

And of course, Toby was being perfectly normal and appropriate, right?

Yes, Michael's like you're ruining it.

And this whole scene is in the conference room taking place around the conference table.

everyone's sitting there and Michael's like that's it I'm gonna have to fix everything you've ruined Toby Ryan Dwight take the conference table out we're gonna take a 5 -minute break while they reset and we're coming back in here and I'm gonna lead you in grief counseling and I about fell out of my chair because in my knowledge that is the first time we have ever referenced the dang conference table oh my gosh and now we know who's always moving it.

It's Dwight and Ryan.

Dwight and Ryan. Where they put it, I don't know.

We don't know. It was the first time I ever heard Michael say, okay, let's get the conference table out of here.

Yes, acknowledging that the conference table can be removed and replaced.

On a whim. How do they get it out of the doorway?

I don't know. They probably have to take it apart.

But Michael's like, we're going to take five to ten -minute break, and when we get back in here, we're going to get down to it, and then the next scene is them with the little ball that they're about to toss around, but that's a deleted scene that sets it up.

I love that, I love that.

Well listen, why don't we take a break and then when we come back, we will meet Michael in the conference room for some some of his grief counseling.

Yeah, and maybe... Sound good?

Maybe Roy will stop by, who knows?

He might, because Pam might need a little break as well.

All right, we'll be right back.

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And we're back. Here we are.

Angela, what did you do during the break?

I went and got an iced tea Jenna, and I said hi to my husband and I walked up I guess behind him kind of quietly and I scared the crap out of him I was like hey, he was like Why does it get me so tickled I I like I don't know why spooking him makes me laugh so hard I Got a cup of coffee, and then I put the sheets from the washer into the dryer and I'm all excited that I'm podcasting and doing the laundry at the same time because you know I love a good multitasking oh yeah oh I have laundry going lady I started okay oh it's going okay it's also I find that when I do laundry I can't podcast in my

closet cuz you can hear the dryer sure on the days I do laundry I podcast in my shed there you go there you go making it work podcasting from home I'm in my pajamas I said that at the beginning.

Oh, I noticed. I didn't say anything but I noticed.

I did my hair, though.

I don't know what that says about me.

When my hair is done, I feel good, even if I'm still in my pajamas.

There you go. All right, guys, we are back in the conference room and Michael is going to lead us in some grief exercises.

It involves taking a ball, and when you If you have the ball, you can talk about a moment of grief in your life.

Michael goes first, of course.

Michael goes first. And he talks about Ed Tuck.

Angela, when he says his feelings about Ed Tuck, it's so good he goes on and on.

I asked Sam to pull a clip so that we could all listen to it together.

Oh, God. I'm so happy about this.

Cause I wrote in my journal that in this scene, this particular moment we could not get through.

And lady, it's not in the script.

This was I think an improvisation by Steve.

Oh my god, okay well there's one line, I'm not gonna say it yet, let's listen to it.

There's one line that I wrote in my journal, we all disintegrated so, Oh my god, wait, hold on, what is it baby?

Sonny got a bird. Oh, okay hold on, I'll be right back.

Okay, he got one of the doves, and what's happening?

got a bird, Sonny is their cat.

So here's the thing, this podcast started with me telling about a squirrel that ate a bird and now their cat just got a bird. I'm telling you this is the Bird Funeral Podcast. Okay, okay I'm so sorry.

I'm back. What happened?

You guys we got a grocery delivery and Sonny shot out the door I guess caught a bird right there that we're doing this episode right now and You had a squirrel eating your bird when you were prepping Squirrel eating a bird. Now your cat is like attacked a bird. Okay, but listen, it's good news.

I have good news We caught sunny we wrestled him to the ground We got the bird out of his mouth and it's a pretty big bird and he was unharmed The bird was unharmed.

Oh the bird was unharmed?

You saved the bird. The bird's okay.

Michael would be so happy.

What's going to happen next week for the initiation?

I don't know. I don't know.

I don't want to be initiated, Jenna.

No. I don't want it.

Please. Don't bring that over here.

I don't want any of that.

All right. Well that was crazy and so sorry I can't I can't believe this is all happening in grief counseling but let's okay where were we?

Alright, let's play this clip of Michael talking about his grief of Ed truck.

I lost Ed truck and it feels like somebody took my heart and dropped it into a bucket of boiling tears.

And at the same time, somebody else is hitting my soul in the crotch with a frozen sledgehammer.

and then a third guy walks in and starts every one of us broke when he said that Yes, yes.

That's what I wrote in my journal.

I said we could not keep it together.

Okay, I said that's not in the script.

I don't know if he was handed that rewrite on the day, but it feels like that's a Steve, that's a Steve improv, that feels like Steve to me.

Oh man, man, man, that got us good though.

Oh man. That is so good.

Well then, Roy walks in.

There's a problem with Pam's car.

Can she come down to the lot and take a look at it.

Oh yeah, so there is an extended scene of this in the deleted scenes, so if you thought it was awkward enough, their conversation by the car, there's, it's extended and even more awkward. Jenna here's my question for you, how did Roy know that she was stuck in the conference room?

How? How did he know there was grief counseling?

How? Oh okay. I think you're implying that she called Roy and told him about it.

I'm just saying, how did he know?

How did he know? Okay, I have a take on it.

I think Michael called Darryl down in the warehouse and said, bring everyone up for some grief counseling.

And Darryl was like, no. Well that would explain it.

Yes, that would explain it.

We had a fan question from Alexa Porter.

Was there ever talk of putting Pam and Roy back together Or was it all just a setup to mess with our feelings?

Well, there was talk in the writers room that maybe Roy could win Pam back.

Remember, David Denman was made a series regular for season three.

So he's going to be making a lot of appearances this season.

I can tell you guys nothing was decided at this point about what would happen with Jim and Pam.

What would happen with Pam and Roy?

They were feeling it out week to week.

I totally remember that.

I also remember it was constantly said that maybe, maybe in the series of The Office, Jim and Pam would not end up together in the end, but would instead lead one another to their actual true loves.

There was, it had not been decided right now that Jim and Pam were one another's true loves.

When you just said that, I got angry.

Oh no, I was like, no, Jim and Pam end up together, no. Well, I think maybe that's why the writing of their characters felt so authentic because the writers were figuring out their relationship at the same time that Jim and Pam were.

So we're as an audience, we feel that like, what will happen?

We don't know. These are two people on journeys trying to find themselves and hopefully that leads them back to each other.

Mmhmm, exactly. All right.

So while Pam and Roy are out in the parking lot, I'm sure Pam was really hoping that she going to come back to the like conference room and the grief counseling's almost over, but no they waited for her because they're a family.

I love that detail, they waited for her.

Yes, there's a great scene on the DVD, it's a deleted scene and Michael is trying to get everyone to loosen up right for the grief counseling he's like, hey guys take your jackets off loosen your ties take off your shoes ladies let your hair down and Angela goes, I don't think Kevin should take off his shoes.

Oh and Kevin gets really annoyed and then he has a talking head that he says, all right listen, I have hyperhidrosis okay?

So we find out that he has this disease that makes your feet sweat really really badly.

So I guess he's been taking his shoes off over in I love this little tidbit and I'm sad it didn't make it in well this explains Why when Pam walks into the room?

Kevin's feet are up on her chair and his shoes are off yes people wrote in and asked about that it's because in the deleted scene Michael is getting everyone to loosen up and we find out that Kevin has How do you say it hyperhidrosis Angela?

I love that. That's a good catch. That's a good catch good tip.

Tidbit. Tidbit! It's a Kenzie tidbit.

All right. So when Pam does finally get back they begin again and Dwight is the first one to share.

Oh this is one of my favorite things.

And Dwight shares that he was supposed to have a twin but he absorbed the twin in utero.

All right. We had a fan question from A.

Ritter Jolly. Did Rainn Wilson make the whole absorbing twin thing up or was it scripted?

Well, first of all, I will tell you, it is not in the script.

I don't know if Rain made it up, but in the script, Dwight was supposed to say this.

He was supposed to say, in the blizzard of 97, 12 shrewts died in the basement of our house.

They drank beer cider that had already turned.

President McKinley declared it a national emergency.

Now, my favorite thing about that is that clearly it's not 1997.

It's like 1897? I guess.

But that was originally Dwight's grief share.

So here's the thing.

I reached out to Jen Salada about this and this is maybe one of my favorite text threads of all time.

This is what tickled me so much is that Jen Salada, Jenna, she's one of our people.

She's a deep diver.

She is a de - the minute I asked her, she went on a deep dive for the whole afternoon.

Ready? So I say, okay Jen.

Dwight's speech about absorbing his twin is not in the script.

Was that an improv?

Did you tell them on the day?

She goes, oh my God, I don't remember.

Oh my God, I love that speech and sadly, it wasn't mine.

I'm going to start texting people, please hold.

Oh, I love this so much. That's happen throughout the day.

She said I texted Rain.

Reign actually thinks it was an alt pitched from Paul.

Jen said, here's a side note, I had a friend that reabsorbed his twin, but I definitely didn't come up with the strength of a baby.

She said I'm gonna check with Paul where that part came from.

Please hold. She texts Paul.

Paul says he thinks it was Justin Spitzer.

Hold one second now texting Justin, Justin was another one of our writers.

This is what Justin texted Jen back.

I still remember that because it was early season three and I was so nervous about proving myself.

I guess yes I came up with it But the thing that really sold it to me was the last line about him having the strength of a grown man Plus a baby and that was something that Paul Lieberstein added after so I think he deserves a fair amount of credit as well So I'm giving that a slow class low -class you a big clap yes wow it was a two -hander that Paul and Justin pitched I love that we got to the bottom of that mystery because that is one of my all -time favorite Dwight isms also guys Justin Spitzer is the creator of the show super store Justin is so talented he's so talented I love him love him Any

way I think the only place to go from here is back to our grief circle And yeah, we need to hear from some other okay So we're back into the grief counseling scene and Stanley has just refused He is not gonna participate now chunks that ball back at Michael.

Hey Yeah, you heard that but Pam agrees to participate and she's gonna share a story about her family But it's clearly just the synopsis for the movie million -dollar, baby Yeah, I mean again Pam is now the gem, she's the jokester.

Yes, and then Ryan joins in and he shares a story that is very clearly The Lion King.

I mean he says the word Mufasa, I mean come on.

But then Kevin catches on and he's tickled, he wants to participate, he wants to play the game, but he goes too broad, too on the nose, and he basically breaks down Weekend at Bernie's and Michael's like, what hold up?

That's a movie. And he gets really ticked off.

OK, so there was a lot of curiosity about these movie plots in the conference room.

We got a fan question from Tristan who wants to know when everyone is in the conference room for Michael's counseling session, did the cast improvise the movie plots that were mentioned or were they scripted?

Jenna, to my knowledge, they were all scripted.

That's how I remember it.

Yes. I looked these up in the shooting draft and Pam's million dollar baby story and Kevin's Weekend at Bernie's story are both in the script, however, Ryan's fake movie story is different.

Ah. Yes. In the script, he talks about Thelma and Louise.

Well. This is what he says.

He says, my mom's sister Thelma died last year.

She was with her friend named Lucy.

A cop was trying to pull them over and I guess the brakes must have not been working because they ended up driving over a cliff and it was a total shock to everyone.

Okay, well, we wanted to get to the bottom of this so we reached out to the source, the writer of this episode, Jen Solata, and this is what she had to say.

For the movies in the grief counseling session, I was really excited.

It was really fun to think about.

I went off on script and needed to find a way that everybody would sit there with Michael Scott and not share their own personal stories of huge loss, because it just didn't seem like they would do that.

So I thought they should share movies' plot lines as if they were their own lives.

And I came up with Million Dollar Baby for you, Jenna, for Pam.

And then also for Kevin, Weekend at Bernie's.

And for Ryan, I had a different one.

I think BJ came up with The Lion King.

I don't quite remember, but I think it was BJ.

And I love that one.

The one I had, I actually found my first draft of the script.

I had Ryan, I'll read you the line.

It's not as good as the Lion King one.

but I had Ryan say, this is almost too horrible to talk about but I had a cousin who was a big city lawyer and he was visiting an Amish town, not far from here and he was smothered to death in their grain silo.

And then I had Michael say, ooh, that must've made you really sad, did it?

And Ryan says, yes.

So I think that was a witness.

So I had Ryan's from witness.

I wish I could remember some of the other ones because I feel like we had other ones that we pitched on but those were the ones from my first draft. And then of course the Lion King Circle of Life was fantastic and Ryan saying it'll take about an hour and a half to tell it was like such a great line that is amazing by the way my college roommate and I used to watch witness and we would say to each other all the time be careful out among them English thank you my moving quote from witness but isn't that wild Jenna that Ryan's Ryan's movie went through three versions it was witness and then it was I guess

Thelma and Louise according to your script but the Lion King is what made it in the show.

Yeah clearly they had a lot of alts for these movie plots but all of them were scripted guys.

All of them written by our awesome writers.

We did not improvise that stuff.

Love that, love that little tidbit Jen Salada.

So guys Michael gets pretty upset that people are not taking this seriously.

You know he says the guy who used to do his job and sit at his desk has died and no one cares." And Toby tries to talk him down and tries to explain that this is just life and that this morning he saw a bird fly into the window downstairs and die.

Michael freaks out.

Oh my gosh, Toby. Toby, what are you thinking?

He totally attaches to that.

Now Michael's grief for Ed is somehow wrapped into this bird. It's going to be a whole thing yeah he runs downstairs he freaks out he wants to see if the bird is alive I had a fan catch here from Kendra at 14 minutes 33 seconds when Michael runs through the front door to get the bird he runs past the security desk and the security guard is not Hank oh good catch yeah different security guard Hank took a personal day you guys I guess so well Michael attempts to resuscitate the bird in the kitchen.

Angela, you're not pleased.

So Michael is determined to save this bird. He brings it into the kitchen.

Angela Martin is not pleased.

She's like, no, that shouldn't be in here.

Get it out. Well, she is not pleased and Angela, she's not wrong.

Thank you, thank you, Jenna.

You're welcome, you're welcome.

We had a fan question from Ellie Friedlander.

She wants to know was that a real dead bird?

No. No, no. No Ellie, it was a fake bird. I reached out to Phil, he told me that he found three dead fake bird options and presented them to Jen, Roger, our director, and Greg.

They chose the one that you see in the show.

And Angela, I have to say when he texted me back that he presented the three dead birds, I imagined in my head that they were on a silver tray Because remember Phil would always present you your props on a silver tray.

Yes. Yes, and I was just Imagining and I said Phil were they on a silver tray and he said, you know me too well These are the moments in our show where I'm like, hey babe, how was your day?

What'd you do today?

Well, I had to find three fake dead birds yeah, I He scours.

Or like, like when Greg goes home and his wife Susanna is like, ''Hey hun, how'd it go shooting today ?'' He's like, ''Great.

I picked a dead bird.'' Yeah.

I picked the yellow one.

I made my dead bird selection.

Yes, exactly. Well, Michael then tells the staff, ''Attention, attention.

We are holding a funeral for this bird at 4 .00 PM in the parking lot, be there, it's on.'' Jenna, now I think it's time to check back in on Jim and Karen.

Oh, yes, have they found the chips?

Where are they in their search for this very hard to find potato chip bag that's actually in the vending machine?

That might be in the vending machine.

That is in the vending machine.

That according to a fan catch is B -1 in the vending machine.

Yeah, it's right there waiting for them.

Well Karen kind of impresses Jim because she decides to call Montreal the Montreal factory to see if they have them and she speaks French may we may we may we a lot of people wrote in about this Breanna Bullard and many many others want to know does Rashida Jones actually know French?

So I texted Rashida since we're already texting about her breakfast order she's probably like Angela, what is happening?

This is what she said.

She goes, no, at this time, I didn't know French. I worked really hard on that line.

But a few years later, I ended up going to France to do a French immersion school in the south of France.

Maybe this scene was the beginning, and it got me inspired.

That's crazy. She did not speak French, but now she does.

Yes. I was like, I want to go to a French immersion class in the south of France.

That sounds amazing.

Same. Same. I took French in high school.

You did? Oh, I have a story about that actually.

Yeah? Can I tell this real quickly?

Yeah? I took French in high school from sister Landry.

I went to a Catholic school, sister Landry was my French teacher.

And I dreamed, I told you guys this before, I dreamed from the time I was a little girl that I would one day go to Paris and then And in my 30s, that finally happened.

Of course, at this point, I was now very far from my French training.

Couldn't really speak French, but Lee and I, we went to a little farmer's market and I guess in France, you don't touch the fruit.

Uh -oh. Okay? You don't select your own produce, you point to it or you trust the person selling the produce to select the best pieces for you.

I didn't know this, okay?

Oh my gosh. I would have been, I pick up things, I thump them, I smell them.

No lady, don't do it.

If you go to a farmer's market in France, here's my hot tip for you.

Don't thump the melon.

Don't thump the melon in France, okay?

Now all through this trip we've been going to restaurants and we've been going to tourist places and I was just fumbling with my French. I couldn't get anything out.

I could read the menus, but I couldn't order anything.

I thought I was gonna really help us, but I couldn't help us, but here we are.

We're at this little market.

I have done the faux pas, I believe that's French, the faux pas of touching the fruit and this woman turns to her coworker and goes off on me.

She in French, is calling me like, kind of like a dumb American.

Your piece of trash, your piece of trash.

Yeah, basically whatever it was, just these Americans come here and they touch her fruit.

She was like going on and on, okay?

in French. I was this mixture of just like, embarrassed but also felt like, I'm sorry how was I supposed to know that?

I'm a nice person. I'm not a bad person.

I'm sorry I picked up that banana.

And Angela? This fluent French spilled out of my mouth at this woman and in French I suddenly She had the command to say, I'm so sorry, but in the United States, we pick our own fruit.

I didn't know about your custom.

I apologize, but you don't need to say nasty things about me.

And the look on her face was like, oh.

Cause she certainly didn't think that the fruit touching American could speak French or understand French. And by the way, I didn't know that I had such a command of the language until I was insulted in a farmer's market in Paris.

And then your superpower came out yes, you know how like some some superheroes their power doesn't come through until they're in crisis I was like a mom lifting a car off her baby.

Exactly. Alright So now we're back at dunder mifflin and kelly is crying by the copier in the annex. Yeah, she is in tears Michael thinks he's finally made a breakthrough until She reveals that she's really crying about her plans with ryan Yeah.

I have a question about this scene.

Okay. What is up with this second copier in the annex?

Is it always there?

I have never seen it before.

What is happening? I think they just rolled it in from the bullpen for the scene.

I feel like they did and they did it because in the background in the break room Dwight is in there.

You can see him over Kelly's shoulder trying to shove this bird into an empty soda can.

I feel like that's why they had to put the copier there to combine these two moments, to have a reason for Michael to be back there.

Right, and for him to see over his shoulder and all of that, exactly.

That copier did not live there in that hallway.

They just shoved it there.

Thank you. Yeah. I did not think so.

I feel like I will track this.

It's gonna be a soft track, but I am gonna look for this copier more.

I think it should be a very soft track because I would be bold enough to say I think it might be the only time it's in the annex. I know that I getting so that's setting myself up for some fanmail of like Angela actually in season 8 But I'm just saying I don't I don't think that copier visits the annex very often All right, but this leads us into one of my favorite Dwight talking heads where he explains he's justifying Why is he shoving this bird into a can and it's because he grew up on a farm Yeah, and guys they reburied his grandfather in an old oil drum OK, hold on.

The same grandfather that was buried in the suit that he wore, like what's happening?

How many times has this guy been brought up out of the ground?

This is one of my favorite things about our show.

Teresa S. also loves it.

She wrote in to say, In Casino Night, Dwight says that his grandfather was buried in the tuxedo he's wearing.

and in Grief Counseling, he said his grandfather was reburied in an oil drum.

Re -buried? She wrote.

Re -buried? What happened?

What is the story behind Dwight's grandfather?

Was he exhumed for some reason?

And did Dwight take the tuxedo off his dead grandfather before reburying him?

And then hold him up?

It sounds like it. Then he folded him up and tried to shove him in a drum?

Theresa, that's exactly what it sounds like.

This is some of my favorite writing on our show in that moment in Casino Night when Dwight just says he's wearing a tuxedo.

My grandfather was buried in it.

That's it, we say no more about it.

And then three episodes later he's Like when my grandfather was reburied and it's like slowly, it's all coming together.

Sort of, sort of not completely.

This is one of my favorite bits of how our show is written.

So now we're at reception.

Right? And Pam has prepared this really beautiful box for the bird funeral.

I mean, it is amazing.

The attention to detail.

She asked Dwight if he would perhaps want to play a song.

She's like, do you have your recorder?

He's like always, always, always, always.

and you know Pam has this really sweet talking head where she's like, well you know what I didn't anticipate I'd be throwing a bird funeral today but you never know working here.

That's right we had a fan question from Andrew S.

Did Jenna make the box for the bird funeral herself or was that a Phil Shay creation?

Either way, how was it constructed?

Well guys, I did not make it, Phil Shay made it, he said he actually made a few options and presented them again to Jenn and Roger and Greg, they picked the one that they liked, and then Phil had to make multiples of it because you know it gets set on fire.

Yeah! So he had to make a whole bunch of those.

I looked it up in the script and it was described in the script, so here's what Phil had to go off of.

It said, it is a hollowed -out tissue box with tissue padding in the center for the bird to lie on, and the outside is decorated in tissue paper and has a tiny little toothpick cross.

My favorite part are the handles.

The handles made out of the pencils.

So that was a Phil edition.

That was just Phil.

Yeah. Yeah. He needed to make sure that tiny bird casket had little bars for the pallbearers.

That's right. The tiny pallbearers.

Yes. We are gonna wrap things up in Stamford now guys.

Jim found the chips.

He left them on her desk.

he's quite pleased with himself yeah i really wanted my mom to record a thing that said flirty jim but we we couldn't we couldn't get it together oh well these scenes drove people crazy i went back and looked at some of the comments from when this aired oh here is what they said detemp said i feel kind of weird about jim and carrion but hartman said uh the karen thing Why oh why am I liking it but I am?

Whoa! I remember people freaking out about it.

Well Keely said, Jim and Karen have great chemistry.

And Mandy said, okay I'm sorry I can't believe there are actually people out there who are okay with Jim hooking up with Karen.

That's what I remember.

But Kim E said this, hmm Jim likes to buy chips for all his ladies.

And I'm with you Kim.

As Pam, I'm like, oh, is this what you do?

You just find all the girls their favorite chips?

Yeah. That's his game.

Are we saying that right?

Is that your game? You and I?

I 100 % doubt we are.

Oh Sam's giving us an okay.

Sam gave us an okay.

That's his game. All right.

Should we go to this bird funeral, Angela?

I can't wait. Please.

Take me there. Well, we're out in the driveway.

Really? Next to the warehouse.

This was an actual parking lot that we used and it was right next to the warehouse, and that's where we filmed this.

Michael is very moved by Pam's beautiful coffin.

It starts with Pam saying a few words about the bird, but we slowly realize that Pam is speaking about the bird, but she's speaking to Michael.

About his feelings, about death and loss.

And about his aloneness.

She talks a lot about how just because the bird was alone doesn't mean he was unloved.

That he was very loved and respected by the other birds.

And then she sings a song.

I was very surprised by this for Pam.

She really put herself out there.

She sings, On the Wings of Love.

She's accompanied by Dwight on the recorder.

Michael is very moved.

He's holding hands, he's swaying, he's tearing up.

We got a lot of questions about this scene.

Richard H. really covers them all.

He says, did Rain already know how to play the recorder?

Did Jenna sing the entire song?

Or did the singing end where the scene was cut?

He also wanted to know, did we rehearse our duet?

Here's what I can tell you.

Yes, Rain knew how to play the recorder.

Remember, he played it in Take Your Daughter to Work Day.

He's actually very good.

But listen to all of the instruments that Rain can play in real life Angela.

He can play the recorder, piano, clarinet, saxophone, bassoon, guitar, drums, xylophone, bells, and a little tuba and baritone.

What are you a one man band Rain?

He kinda is! I knew you could play the bassoon because your book The Bassoon King is great.

So I knew that. But I didn't know you were walking one man show.

Oh, suffice it to say, Rain knew his stuff.

And we did rehearse but just a little bit right before the scene.

Rain and I practiced separately.

I had listened to the song over and over again to memorize the words.

I had to sing the first verse through the chorus.

That's what I had to do over and over again.

I was so nervous. Well, I thought you did fantastic.

Thank you. I have a fan question from the scene Jenna.

Okay. So Chelsea wrote in and said, was Angela's A -Man improvised?

A lot of people wrote in about this because it was so quick after Pam was done talking.

People wanted to know if I improvised that.

No, that was scripted.

And folks wanted to know, why did Angela do it?

And I said, I think personally, the direction that they gave me was that Angela had had enough of this charade, this bird funeral, Pam had gone on and on.

Enough. Amen. I'm done.

And that's. And that's how you finish it.

Yes. Amen. Amen. I'm finished.

Amen. Stop talking.

Yes. Exactly. Speaking of the script I have a script catch. Okay.

So you know in the scene we set the box on fire.

In the shooting draft of the script we buried the bird. There was a scene where Michael and Dwight are digging a hole outside and then we all gather around this hole and it got changed to fire but I don't know why.

I think maybe Angela there was really no grass in this area that we shot.

We had no grass there was a hedge with maybe like I don't know three feet of dirt.

Like yeah there was I mean not even there is a deleted scene where Michael and Dwight are trying to dig a hole there and then the business on the other side yells at them and they run away.

Oh okay well there you go.

Well, we had another fan question about this fire, then.

Clara Johnson wants to know, did you actually set the bird on fire?

Yes, real fire fake bird. Kent told me they had to hire a special effects guy to oversee the fire and the extinguishing, and they had to get a special permit to be allowed to set the fire.

And he said we did three takes, three takes the fire.

And Phil told me, though, that the special effects guys were worried that the fake dead bird might give off toxic fumes when it burned.

So we, they actually took it out of the box and just put a wad of toilet paper in there.

Oh, not toilet paper.

I know. Too soon. Too soon, Angela, too soon.

And then finally, we had a fan catch from Peter K.

He said, I noticed the box was burned in some shredded paper.

Could this be further evidence that Pam does use the shredder?

Oh, look at that! Nice one, Peter.

It would appear so.

Well, you know, Jen actually left us a really great message about this scene, and she was talking about the fact that we never got to shoot outside.

And when we did, everyone would get really excited.

And she explains a little bit about that.

So, Sam, can you play that?

One thing that I remember from the grief counseling episode is that when I went to the sound mix, they were showing us the playback of the episode, and it was still a little bit unusual when the characters went outside.

It was still a little bit of a treat.

So we get to this bird funeral scene, and our characters are outside, and I just remember hearing kind of an enormous amount of birds.

And I think that it was because we were outside, It was because we had a bird funeral.

It was so exciting for the amazing sound people who do a fantastic job, to put a lot of bird noises in because for the longest time when we're inside the office, they're just putting dot matrix printer sounds and just faxes and old fashioned office noises, so it must have been such a treat and a field day to be able to go outside and hear birds and especially on theme with the funeral.

So I remember, this is a slight exaggeration, but it sounded a little bit like Alfred Hitchcock, The Birds when I first heard the playback for the bird funeral.

But they quickly made a wonderful adjustment and it was the right amount of outside birds.

I love that. I love that our sound mixers got so excited.

They put like hundreds of birds and they're like, okay, guys, there's not that many birds outside.

let's let's dial it back.

Yes yes. Oh what good insight from Jen this week.

Yes thank you so much Jen Salata for sending in those clips and for texting me.

You are amazing we so appreciate it and thank you Rashida for letting me bug you about all kinds of random things yesterday.

And also Phil Shea and Kent Sabornak thank you guys for helping us make this podcast so great.

And thanks Thank you so much to Mindy Kaling for letting us take a clip from your book.

Is everyone hanging out without me?

And other concerns, it's hilarious.

We love you Mindy. So there you have it guys, that's the grief counseling episode.

Did we do it? Are we leaving you depressed?

I hope not. I hope not, and hopefully next week we won't have anymore dead birds to tell you about in our lives.

Stay safe out there flying friends.

Stay safe out there everyone, we love ya.

Thank you for listening to Office Ladies Second Drink.

This episode was initially created in collaboration with Earwolf.

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

Our Executive Producer is Cassie Jerkins and our Audio Engineer and Associate Producer is Daniela Silva.

Odyssey's Executive Producers are Jenna Wise -Berman and Leah Reece -Dennis.

Office Ladies is mixed and mastered by Chris Bazel.

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.

[The 'Grief Counseling' Curse: A Deep Dive into The Office Birds and Behind-the-Scenes Drama]-[Second Drink: Grief Counseling]

📋 Summary

The Cursed 'Grief Counseling' Episode

The Writing Process and Emotional Tracking

Behind-the-Scenes Chaos: The Mindy Kaling Fight

Fact-Checking the "Decapitation" and Movie Plots

Production Trivia

Conclusion: The Bird Funeral

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript