Today on Something You Should Know, why we like to sit in the same place we sat before.
Then, the fascinating science of dreaming and the power and importance of your nightly dreams.
We are as dream deprived as we are sleep deprived.
And during sleep.
It's thought that dreams help strengthen memories, they help us process difficult emotions and they help us prepare for life's dangers.
Also an interesting quirk of the human brain that may be costing you money and a few simple things that could drastically improve your health.
The first is stop drinking sugar-sweetened beverages like sodas, because they're 140 calories, 10 teaspoons of sugar and zero nutrition.
Fortunately, the American public's been doing that, but we have to do more of it.
All this today on Something You Should Know.
Of the Regency Era.
You might know it as the time when Bridgerton takes place or as the time when Jane Austen wrote her books.
The Regency era was also an explosive time of social change, sex scandals and maybe the worst king in British history.
Vulgar History's new season is all about the Regency era, the balls, the gowns, and all the scandal.
Listen to Vulgar History, Regency era, wherever you get podcasts.
Something You Should Know, fascinating intel the world's top experts and practical advice you can use in your life.
Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers.
When you walk into a room that you've been in before, there's a very good chance you will sit down in the same place you sat before.
Why is that?
Why do people do that?
Well, that's what we're going to talk about as we begin this episode of Something You Should Know.
So this phenomenon of sitting in the same place you sat before is called psychological ownership.
It's that feeling that something is mine. even though you have no legal ownership of it.
Research shows that people quickly develop attachments to physical spaces simply by occupying them repeatedly.
Over time, the space becomes associated with comfort, familiarity, and identity.
Sitting in the same place reduces cognitive load because your brain doesn't have to process new environmental variables.
It also creates a subtle sense of control and territorial security.
There's also something called place attachment.
It's a well-studied phenomenon in environmental psychology.
Humans form emotional bonds, not just with homes or neighborhoods, but with micro-locations.
Desks, chairs, corners of rooms.
These spaces become predictable anchors in an otherwise variable environment, which explains why losing your seat to someone else can feel strangely disruptive.
It's not about the chair.
It's about the routine, control, and identity.
And that is something you should know.
Every night, you enter a world that feels real, sometimes joyful, sometimes terrifying and often completely bizarre.
You can fly.
You can relive the past.
You can solve problems.
Or you can wake up shaken by something that never actually happened.
Because it's all just a dream.
But what are dreams, really?
For decades, scientists debated whether dreams are just random electrical noises in the brain or something far more meaningful.
Why do some dreams feel trivial while others leave a deep emotional scar?
Why do certain dreams repeat?
And what is your brain actually doing during those hours when you're unconscious but your mind is very active?
Karen Van Kampen is an award-winning health and science journalist and author of the book The Brain Never Sleeps Why We Dream and What It Means to Our Health.
And she joins me to explore what modern neuroscience has uncovered about why we dream, what those dreams may be doing for us, and how understanding them could change the way you think about sleep itself.
Hi, Karen.
Welcome to Something You Should Know.
Thanks for having me.
Well, this is such a fun topic because I think everybody has their own personal relationship with their dreams.
And one of the things I wonder about is...
Why I dream what I dream.
Some things seem obvious, right?
Something happened today and you dream about it that night or you're looking forward to something.
But a lot of times dreams creep in that are about people you haven't thought of, things that have never happened, things that seemed completely unconnected, and often very, very bizarre.
You know, the sheep shows up and eats the car that flies into the elephant.
You know what I mean?
Yep, for sure.
I'm always as fascinated by the fictions of my dream as much as the reflections of waking reality.
And some of the things that we dream about, it could have to do with recency.
So let's say we had an experience, let's say we're learning something new at school or at work.
If something emotional happens, it's almost like they jump the queue and they have priority to be dreamed about.
And then what's really interesting is that, to strengthen new experiences, new memories, one idea is that it associates new experiences with say, old memories, that are, you know, files stored away in our brain and our catalog of memories.
And that might be the reason why you have these sort of strange associations during dreaming.
Well, what we dream about.
Like you say, if there's something important going on, that that jumps the queue, that's a great phrase to describe that.
But so often the dreams just come out of nowhere, it seems, or like you might dream about somebody you haven't thought about in a long time, or a place, or like you wonder.
It seems very random and probably difficult to figure out or study.
But has anybody tried?
Yeah.
That was one of the questions that made me want to write this book and made me want to research dreams is why is it that I'm going to suddenly dream of someone that I haven't seen for decades, or someone from my past?
And so one idea is that there might be some association, some unique association, with this person or with this time in your past, with something that's happened recently.
So that's one idea.
That's one possibility.
That's what I've always been fascinated about.
Why do we choose to dream certain things at different points in our lives?
Well, when you say choose, see, I don't think I choose my dreams.
Oh, right.
Why does the dreaming brain choose?
Why does our brain choose to pick those things? thoughts or feelings or experiences to dream about.
But you make it sound as if the brain has its own brain.
It's our brain, right?
It's our brain.
So if our brain chooses it, we choose it.
So let's say we're lying down, we're going to fall asleep and there's things that are going through our minds as we're drifting off.
Oftentimes, something we're thinking about will jump the queue or it will be tagged in our brain, in our mind, and then might we might revisit that idea or that experience later in our dreams.
Sometimes people have bad dreams.
Well, everyone has bad dreams nightmares, and sometimes they recur.
They come back again and again.
And what is that?
And is there anything you can do about it other than just hope you stop doing that?
Sometimes nightmares, you can have recurrent nightmares and they can follow you for years.
And it can affect people.
People become afraid to fall asleep.
They don't want to go to bed because they're afraid they're going to have a nightmare.
The thing is is that dreams can affect, to have a have a very powerful influence of how we feel the next day, if we carry it with us into the next day.
Just like in that, just like a waking experience, our dream experiences can affect our well-being and how we feel.
So there's, there's several things that you can do for for nightmares great, so tell me how that works.
So since I was a kid, I've had this dream where I just pictured myself I was on the top of this metal scaffolding and then suddenly I trip and I'm falling.
And just before I hit the ground, I always bolt awake.
And I was told by a dream researcher that that's the ultimate avoidance strategy, because I'm never getting any resolution to the dream.
So the nightmare lives on.
So one way to combat nightmares is to do something called imagery rehearsal therapy.
So during the day, oftentimes you don't want to do this.
You don't want to think about your dream, your bad dream.
But if you think about it, then you try and rewrite it.
You re-script whatever part of your distressing dream is upsetting you.
So for me, it's the ending, but for some people it could be a detail or a person.
And so you reimagine your dream, you re-script your dream and you practice it.
I think it's something you know.
A couple of minutes a day, for a couple of weeks, you think about this new version of your dream.
And then, when you have this nightmare again the way I sort of see it is it's given you another way out.
So you have a different, you have an alternative to the first version of your nightmare.
So I understand that dreams are very closely related to your life.
But I get very skeptical when I hear about dream interpretation.
That you know.
If you were falling in your dream, it's because your life is out of control in some way.
Because if you ask 10 dream interpreters what a dream means, you'll get 10 different answers.
So I just, I don't really buy it.
One way to look at it is, you know, ultimately we're the best interpreter of our own dreams.
So if we just want to see a dream as you know, face value what it is, or if we want to interpret it in a different way,
I spoke with one dream researcher and he said that he often has these exam dreams before he's let's say, he's preparing for a presentation or he's working on a grant.
And he said, one idea is that, you know, exams test our competency.
So that might be a theme.
But you know.
So the way I look at it is we can look at dreams and um use our dreams however we'd like to, and and ultimately, we're the best interpreter of our dreams.
Well, i like that.
I like that because it just seems so random to ask somebody you know what does my dream mean?
And how would they know?
How are they, how would they have any idea what it means?
It was interesting.
I joined a dream salon in which I shared a dream.
And then I had different people offer their thoughts and interpretations of the dream.
What happens is you share your dream, and then people will say you know, if it was my dream, I might think of this or this or this.
And that was really interesting.
And it gives you different perspectives on how you might see your dream.
And then you know, and then I think you know, it's all.
It's up to all of us how we, how we see our dreams and how we use our dreams.
I mean, you know, no one's telling us we can dismiss our dreams or we can focus on them and try and use them in our waking, in our waking lives.
There's something about dreams where it crosses a line where I mean most of my dreams.
You wouldn't be able to tell I'm dreaming if you looked at me sleeping.
But sometimes I say something or I'll scream something or I'll, you know, it comes into reality.
My wife will wake me up and say, you're having a dream.
Wake up.
What is that line that you cross when it stops being silent and it becomes reality?
You can have nightmares or night terrors.
And sometimes, if it's a terrifying dream, you might scream or bolt awake during a night terror.
That's at different stages of the sleep cycle.
You know, I find it's interesting.
For me, I'm really fascinated when I dip in and out of sleep.
And I might notice something, you know, a noise, and then I dip back into sleep.
And then I go in and out and how the dreaming and waking world, there isn't that sharp divide.
It just, it flows from wake then into different stages of dreaming and sleep, I should say.
We're talking about your dreams, why you dream what you dream.
And I'm speaking with Karen Van Kampen.
She's author of the book, The Brain Never Sleeps, Why We Dream and What It Means for Our Health.
If Bravo drama, pop culture, chaos and honest takes are your love language, you'll want All About Terry H podcast in your feed.
Hosted by Roxanne and Chantel, this show breaks down Real Housewives, reality TV and the moments everyone's group chat is arguing about.
Roxanne's been spilling Bravo tea since 2010.
And yes, we've interviewed Housewives royalty like Countess Luann and Teresa Giudice.
Smart recaps, insider energy and zero fluff.
Listen to all about TRH podcasts on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen.
New episodes weekly.
Hey, it's Hillary Frank from The Longest, Shortest Time, an award-winning podcast about parenthood and reproductive health.
We talk about things like sex ed birth control pregnancy, bodily autonomy and, of course, kids of all ages.
But you don't have to be a parent to listen.
If you like surprising funny, poignant stories about human relationships and you know periods, The Longest, Shortest Time is for you.
Find us in any podcast app or at LongestShortestTime.com.
So Karen, you know that experience where you're having like a really great dream and then you wake up and you think, oh man.
You know, I want back in.
I want to get back in that dream.
I can't do that.
You can't get back in.
Exactly.
So that is, I mean, I would love to be, I've never been able to do that either.
But some people, that goes into the area of lucid dreaming, right?
So lucid dreaming is when you're in the dream state and you're realizing.
You're dreaming as it's happening.
So you can almost guide your dream thoughts.
And then, once you gain this awareness of the dream state, then you can try and start to you know, control and guide your dreams.
So I do know I met with some people and they would try and think of an idea as they're falling asleep like oh, I really want to get back to that great experience or that great dream.
And then once they're dreaming, they try and lucid dream.
And so I have this, I'm able to recognize that I'm dreaming.
Like I'll sometimes talk to a dream character and say oh, I know why you're doing that, because I'm thinking about this or something.
And then the person will say, yes, but you still have to keep going with the dream.
And then, but I can't control a dream.
I've never been able to lose a dream that way.
Well, every time I'm in a dream and I realize I'm in a dream, I just wake up.
I just...
Yes.
I can't stay in it once I've made the determination that I'm dreaming.
I had this dream and I was in this bar and I had to pay for a drink and my credit card like I tried to tap and it wouldn't work.
And so I said to the waiter oh, I'm dreaming this because I'm planning a vacation and I'm concerned about, about money.
And then the waiter said, yeah, you still have to pay me.
So then it's right.
But I wanted to.
But so I can't switch and try and control what's going to happen next.
But it's it's definitely mind expanding.
Yeah well, I've heard that.
I've heard that, you know, dreaming can be a source of inspiration and creativity for, but i've never been able to really.
Sometimes i've had things happen in a dream and i think oh this, this could be a good idea, but in in the light of day it turns yeah, that wasn't such a great idea, right?
So there's this area of, of this new sort of i look at as the next frontier in dream science, and it's called dream engineering, and one thing you can do is you can try.
So it's all about guiding your dreams, learning to guide your dreams.
And often it's using technology to do this.
So as you fall asleep, one idea is as you fall asleep, you're thinking of an idea, but then you do these voice recordings.
And as you're going into sleep onset, which has been called, it's like a creative sweet spot dream researchers, a group of dream researchers called it, this creative sweet spot.
So as you're going into sleep onset, a voice recording will play, like you've created this voice recording, and it will say you know, remember to think of whatever you want to, you know, get some creative inspiration about.
And then this recording will play at different times of sleep onset to try and know sort of guide your dreams to, to this new um area that you want to explore.
But why?
Why would you be able to come up with something in a dream that you couldn't come up with yourself in reality?
Because it's still you it's, it's the same thing and i've i've asked this question before like i've never understood why you can be surprised in a dream it's your dream, what?
But you can be scared and surprised and shocked and like i don't understand why you can't figure this all out.
I guess it's fascinating because you think you know like we create these dreams these, these reels, these fictions for our own.
You know curiosity and wonder and we've created them.
Yet as we're dreaming, we are surprised because they're as real to us as waking experiences.
So, as we're having this dream experience, we just get taken along on this adventure that we've created for ourselves.
I agree.
I find it so fascinating.
And it makes me think, you know, when we're disconnected from all those demands and the distractions from the day and our dreaming brain can can wander and maybe sort through this catalog of memories that we have stored.
And it plucks all these different things and mashes them together and does almost like this highlight reel.
That's what I just find it so fascinating what our dreaming brain can come up with and create.
Do people?
I don't know if anyone surveyed people to see, but my guess is that people have like one or two or maybe three recurring dreams.
Is that pretty common?
Yes, recurring dreams are common.
And recurring nightmares, recurrent nightmares are also common.
I have a recurring dream that is so weird because it is so irrelevant to me anymore.
But years ago I was a disc jockey on the radio and this was back in the day when we had physical tapes that you put in a machine or a CD that you put in a machine.
It wasn't all on computer.
And I would come in and start being on the radio, and I couldn't find any songs to play.
Somebody had taken them.
And I'm freaking out trying to find a song to play.
And it happens.
I have it over and over again.
It has no relevance to my life today.
But for whatever reason, I keep dreaming it.
Yes.
So when I spoke with different dream researchers, you can have this dream from years ago.
And again, it brings up that, why did you dream it now?
It makes sense.
If it's something to do with, It makes sense that it might find its way into your dreams.
If it's something that you the repetition like, if it's something you did all the time, if you were working in a certain place.
But you can have these dreams that just reappear after many years.
And it's really interesting to think, to try and ask yourselves why like, why is it appearing at this time?
So, knowing what you know and you've researched about dreams, what do we do with all this information?
It seems like we have so little control over this.
What can we do?
You know, we spend, they say about a third of our lives asleep and a great portion of that time dreaming.
And you know, we can not pay a second thought to our dreams and just go about our lives.
But you know, if we tap into our dreams and we look at them more closely, or if we try and use our dreams to improve our waking lives, there's many ways that we can use our dreams to improve our wellbeing.
Well, I'd like to hear those.
Okay.
One idea is that dreams identify our waking preoccupations and concerns.
So it's not that dreams are a replay of what happens in our waking life.
It's almost like they're a highlight reel of what is weighing on our minds and is saying hey, it needs more attention.
So this could be an issue.
It could be maybe something at work.
Maybe it's a person that we maybe want that keeps showing up in our dreams.
And so one easy way is to write down your dreams just before you know, before you get out of bed, when they're still swirling around in your head, or maybe make a voice recording.
And I found it really interesting.
One dream researcher said, you know, connect it if you want.
You can also do a journal if you keep a date like a day journal.
And connect your dreams with what's going on in your waking life.
And another thing is that it's really important.
We talk a lot about how we're sleep deprived.
But I read this study and it said we are as dream deprived as we are sleep deprived.
And it made me wonder, you know, why do dreams matter on their own?
And during sleep, it's thought that dreams help strengthen memories.
They help us process difficult emotions.
And they help us prepare for life's dangers.
Those are three ideas of benefits during dreams.
I've heard people say that they don't dream or they don't dream much.
What does the science say about how much we dream, who dreams, who doesn't dream, all of that?
Most people dream.
So we dream during non-REM and REM sleep throughout the night.
And our most vivid intense, emotional dreams often happen during REM sleep, closer to when we wake up in the morning.
And do everyone's dreams seem nonsensical to some degree?
I mean, does anybody dream just perfectly normal, like it's reality?
Or is everybody having those weird, bizarre dreams?
All dreams have that reflections of reality, fragments from our waking life.
And then it's mixed with these bizarre elements that seem to make no sense as well.
And that's sort of that fiction part of our dreams.
It's really interesting.
I'm always thinking, why did I come up with that?
And it's almost.
It makes me wonder you're creating this story or this script and how did I come up with that?
It's so interesting to think how our imaginations have created this.
What's your sense about people's involvement in their own dreams?
Because I find this topic fascinating.
But I admit I don't log my dreams or give them a whole lot of thought later in the day.
But how do most people do this?
It's changed my view.
It's almost opened up my own dream world to see how other people are thinking about and using their dreams.
Yeah, you can just not even think about your dreams.
Or there's many people who reflect on their dreams, trying to understand.
Maybe you know why was I dreaming that?
I think a big thing is to know how important it is to get enough dream sleep, to get enough sleep, but you know the dreams that sleep offers.
It's so important that we have enough dreams, enough dream sleep for memory consolidation and learning and processing emotions.
That's a really big thing.
Yeah.
And you know a lot of the benefits that we get from dreams happen, whether we remember our dreams or not happen, whether we think about our dreams or not.
We're gaining all of these different benefits from dreams.
Yeah.
Well, it's such a universal topic, and yet it's also a very personal topic.
Everybody has their own thing about dreams, and I love to hear explanations as to why it is the way it is.
I've been talking with Karen Van Kampen.
She's an award-winning health and science journalist, and the book is called The Brain Never Sleeps Why We Dream and What It Means for Our Health.
And there's a link to that book in the show notes.
Karen, thanks for explaining all this.
Okay, thanks so much.
Taking care of your health can feel overwhelming.
One expert will tell you cut carbs.
Another says lift weights.
Someone else tells you fast.
Track your sleep.
Avoid this.
Do more of that.
And don't forget your screenings.
Well, it's no wonder people are confused.
But what if living a long, healthy life isn't nearly as complicated as we've made it?
What if, beneath all the noise, there are just a few core principles that truly matter, rules grounded in solid medical evidence?
Dr Zeke Emanuel is an oncologist professor at the University of Pennsylvania and one of the most widely cited voices in medicine and public health.
After years of studying what actually extends life, he argues that we've overcomplicated the formula.
He boils it down to six surprisingly simple rules that may challenge what you think you know about diet prevention and even indulgence.
He is author of the book, Eat Your Ice Cream, Six Simple Rules for a Long and Healthy Life.
Hey, doctor, welcome to Something You Should Know.
Great to be here.
Thank you.
So you say wellness should be simple, but I don't think that's most people's perception of wellness.
That it's simple, that it sounds like it should take a lot of work.
So explain what you mean by that.
Well, that's part of the wellness industrial complex.
They want you to think it's complex, so that you pay attention to what they're telling you, and all the little adjustments.
But my view is it's six things.
And most people already know those six things.
One is don't take unreasonable risks.
The second is be social, interact with people.
It's the best thing you can do for your wellness.
Third is stay mentally sharp and engaged.
Fourth is eat well, fifth is exercise and sixth is sleep.
And the the last three the diet, the exercise and the sleep we already know.
We get uh, inundated with all sorts of information about those.
The first three we might know a little less about, but intuitively we know what we should be doing.
So those last three diet, exercise and sleep, as you say, we've heard a lot about it, but a lot of what we hear is contradictory is changes.
It's good for you this day, but bad for you that day.
So it's confusing as all get out.
I mean, just take diet.
There are two things we should stop doing and two things we should probably focus most of our attention on.
There are many other things once you have these four elements under control.
The first is stop drinking sugar-sweetened beverages like sodas, because they're 140 calories, 10 teaspoons of sugar and zero nutrition.
Fortunately, the American public's been doing that, but we have to do more of it.
Second, we have to stop eating so much ultra processed foods.
About 60 percent of our calories are ultra processed foods.
The Italians are at 20, which is where most people should be.
So that the most important thing is stop eating packaged cakes, cookies, pretzels, and snacks.
Those packaged items have increased to 500 calories a day for most people.
So those are the two things we really have to stop.
The things we have to start doing.
The first, and that hasn't gotten a lot of attention, is eat fermented foods, things like cottage cheese yogurt kimchi, sauerkraut.
Those are really good for you.
Not only do they give you protein and other items, but they improve your microbiome, and that is critical to good nutrition.
And the second thing I would say is 90% or more of Americans don't get enough fiber.
We need to eat more fiber.
Those are basically prebiotics.
Those are the things that bacteria in your gut grow on.
And we can easily do that by eating fruits and vegetables, not by going out and buying those expensive packaged prebiotics.
And Those four things, they'll get you pretty far.
All right.
Well, let's go back and talk about what you, because you talked about snacks and things.
The title of your book is Eat Your Ice Cream, which is not a healthy food typically in most people's minds.
So reconcile that for me.
Well, ice cream is actually a dairy product.
Yes, it does have a fair amount of sugar.
And if you eat it occasionally as a celebration once a week, it's fine.
The dairy part of it is quite good.
We know that Dairy has associated with a decreased risk of diabetes, even though it has some sugar.
It's associated with decreased colorectal cancer, probably because of its impact on the microbiome.
It also makes people taller.
It's got a lot of advantages.
It does have some disadvantages.
It can raise some kinds of risks of some kinds of cancer.
But net net, it's actually a good thing.
Plus, you know, wellness is something you're going to have to do for years and decades.
And if you make it all about self-denial and punishment and you know doing things you don't really want to do, you will not sustain it.
You have to make wellness a good, a habit you like and a habit you can therefore integrate into your life and look forward to pursuing.
You know, having an ice cream uh, one or two times a week as a sort of nice dessert is something you can look forward to.
And it's got some health benefits.
Wait, wait, wait.
Did you say a minute ago, did you say dairy makes you taller?
Yes.
If you look at the tallest people in the world, like the Dutch or the Danes, they're taller than Americans and they are big consumers of dairy.
And we know that the more dairy you eat, especially as young children, the taller you get.
Is there an explanation for that?
There are a variety of theories.
No one knows for sure.
Probably the proteins and the fats help.
There's some theory that it might be the hormones in dairy, because that comes typically comes from cows who have just had calves.
But no one knows for sure.
And we know that it leads to longer.
You know, the main way you measure heights across populations is by thigh length.
But the Dutch, for example, in the mid 19th century were among the shortest people in Europe.
They are among the biggest consumers of dairy.
They have a famous Gouda cheese.
They eat a lot of yogurt, a lot of milk.
They are now the tallest people in the world by a long shot, three to four inches taller on average than Americans.
Talk a little more about this, about the microbiome, because you said that eating fermented foods but you know, the list of fermented foods is pretty short, it seems, and not all of them are sound all that delicious to me.
So well, here's an ideal breakfast for you.
If you have a bowl of berries or some kind of fruit uh, so you get your fiber.
Uh, in You put on granola, that's got oats and dried fruits.
Add yogurt and hemp seeds.
Both have protein as well as omega-3 and 6 fatty acids.
That is a pretty optimal breakfast.
I personally have that every day, and I add to it.
Egg and a half if I'm making an omelet or two eggs also comes with a lot of nutrients and especially 12 to 14 grams of protein.
You have had pretty much an ideal breakfast to get you going in the day and a very healthy dose of fiber.
How does that help your microbiome?
So you've got the fiber from the berries is helps the bacteria in your microbiome grow.
And it's a variety of fibers.
It's not just one over and over again so that different bacteria need different kinds of fibers.
And yogurt has bacteria in it and, again, improves the diversity of the bacteria in your gut.
We also happen to know that yogurt is one of the leading foods for weight regulation and weight loss if you're on a diet.
So one of the things you didn't talk about in talking about diet was things like fats, saturated fats meat vegetarian, all that.
So throw that in the mix.
Americans, almost all Americans get enough protein.
There are groups that don't necessarily get enough protein.
Older individuals.
When we're on the downward path and losing muscle mass, need a little more protein.
If you're competing in races, you will need more protein as you prepare for that.
But most of us who aren't doing those kinds of things perfectly fine amount of protein just by eating regularly.
And we don't have to really count on how much protein we're eating.
We don't really have to focus on it.
We eat too much meat.
We eat about 12 ounces of meat per day per American.
That is too much.
You can get your protein in many other ways, whether nuts or beans, as I mentioned eggs, yogurts and dairy products.
And meats have excessive amounts of saturated fats.
And we also know that they're associated with increased risk of cardiovascular disease, increased risk of early mortality.
So we should cut back on our meat.
I make a recommendation that probably about six ounces.
Six to eight ounces a week is in the right range, not 12 ounces a day.
So the first thing you mentioned was don't take unnecessary risks.
Is that a big problem for people?
We still have a lot of smokers.
We have a lot of people who drink too much.
And we do a lot of things that are excessive in the risk category.
Ride bicycles without helmets.
Play sports that are not very good for the brain.
And I think that there are lots of things people are pursuing, especially people who might have money that are really an excessive risk.
Just take climbing Mount Everest is one of the riskiest things you can do.
You pay $100,000. to go up Mount Everest.
And the chance of dying is for all comers, including expert mountaineers, is one in 100.
And if you're over 59, it's one in 25.
That strikes me as pretty schmucky move, very unreasonable risks to do.
You know what I notice is that there are people who make this an effort.
They're going to get fit, they're going to get well, so they're going to do things that they haven't done, and it's all very effortful, as opposed to people who more or less adopt it as part of their life.
It becomes their life rather than fights their life.
Oh, I think that's a great way of putting it.
When you make wellness and living a long time the focus of your life, you're making a mistake.
The focus of our life should be something bigger than ourselves, not just a sort of narcissistic obsession with I've got to live a long time.
That will not be a very fulfilling life.
As a matter of fact, we know that part of what makes life fulfilling is not focusing on living a long time, but focusing on giving to the world.
I talk about Ben Franklin, one of the greatest people who's ever lived actually, and was world class in so many ways world class scientist, world class diplomat, world class publisher, world class journalist, world class writer, world class politician.
He was driven by three principles.
One was curiosity.
He was curious about the world.
It kept his mind young.
The second was moral growth, recognizing he wasn't perfect.
He made mistakes.
He had prejudices and trying to overcome those flaws.
And the third, and I think the most important thing is he was constantly thinking about how to be useful.
And by useful, he meant how do I make the world around me better?
He was a consummate civic improver.
He created the University of Pennsylvania.
He created the first hospital in America, Pennsylvania Hospital.
He created a lending library.
He created an insurance company.
He created a volunteer fire brigade.
He created a learned society, the American Philosophical Society.
He just made these civic items.
Second, He invented at least 10 things.
We know him for the bifocals, the lightning rod, but he also invented swim fins.
He invented a urinary catheter.
And interestingly, Mike, he never patented one of them.
His view is, I'm giving these to the world.
I've made some improvements.
Other people will take my inventions and improve them even further, and the world will be a better place.
And that's what motivated him.
That should be the goal of everyone.
How do we make the world a better place?
And that will make us much more fulfilled and also live longer.
There has been a lot of talk about this whole idea of social connection and as it relates to health, but I'm not sure I really understand the connection of how it makes you healthier.
I think your puzzlement affects a lot of people.
So we think, you know, social connection, it makes me feel happier.
It's all in my head.
Well, it's not all psychological.
It's very much physiological.
Just take one element.
When you interact with someone, you actually activate the hypothalamus pituitary axis that decreases your stress hormone cortisol secreted by your adrenals.
That is a direct physiological response lowers your heart rate, lowers your stress levels, lowers your blood pressure.
In addition, when you interact with someone, you actually get a release of oxytocin, the so-called love hormone, in the brain.
You get an increase in dopamine and serotonin, which also makes you happier.
All of these things are actually quite important physiological responses to social interaction.
And we know that human beings are social animals.
We know that they like interacting.
There's this very wonderful experiment by a professor from the University of Chicago, Nick Epley, where he took commuters before they got on the train and the bus and said for the next week, force yourself to talk to someone on the commute, not just to sit there and read your book or play with your iPhone.
Talk to someone.
And it turned out that after a week people were after every commute, but also after the week people were much happier.
They were much feeling much better, whether they were extroverts or introverts, by interacting with people.
So it actually plays on your physiological and your brain.
And that is why.
Social interaction actually is critical to wellness.
And interestingly, most books on wellness, whether it's Outlive or some of the others, do not talk about social interaction as important.
And that's a big mistake.
So talk about movement and exercise, because I think again, there's a lot of confusion of how much is enough and what do you do and all of that, the amount you should get.
Here are two important rules vigorous exercise, getting your heart rate up to 75 of your maximum.
So you're a little breathless.
Um, you should be doing that about 75 minutes a week.
Uh, that's you know.
For me it's a three to four 20 minute exercise sessions on a stationary bike when it's cold.
Um, Strength training, you should do a few times a week.
You wanna get your muscles a little fatigued.
Don't go overboard.
One of the things I think the influencers want you to do is exercise more and more.
You know, Peter Attia talks about 10 hours a week That is excessive.
After about 150 minutes two and a half hours to three and a half hours a week of vigorous exercise, you get no benefit in terms of wellness and longevity and you run the risk of repetitive motion injuries and Spending time that could be spent more productively doing other things on exercise.
So there's a plateau of benefit, both physically, but also in many other ways.
Well, with all of the complicated advice and contradictory advice that you so often hear, it's good to just hear the basics, and hear it from someone with your credentials that make you realize it's just not that complicated.
I've been talking with Dr. Zeke Emanuel.
He's a professor at the University of Pennsylvania.
He is an oncologist who's regularly in the media.
And he is author of a book called Eat Your Ice Cream, Six Simple Rules for a Long and Healthy Life.
And there's a link to his book at Amazon in the show notes.
Zeke, thank you so much for being here.
Thank you so much.
You probably like to think you're pretty rational when it comes to money, but sometimes maybe not.
Take the price, $59.99.
Now, you know that's basically $60, but your brain doesn't process it that way.
Research in behavioral economics shows that we anchor heavily on the digit 50.
Farthest to the left.
So that 5 of $59.99 quietly tells your brain this is a 50-something purchase, not a $60 purchase.
That tiny shift lowers what researchers call the pain of paying.
But here's the twist.
Not all prices work that way.
Studies show that precise prices like $29.87, that signals calculation and competence.
People make the assumption that the seller did the math on this.
That works especially well for practical purchases.
But for emotional or luxury buys, round numbers are better.
A $40 bottle of champagne feels right.
So pricing isn't about sense.
It's about cognition.
Retailers aren't just adjusting numbers.
They're adjusting your perception.
And your brain is doing most of the work for them.
And that is something you should know.
This podcast is produced by Jeff Havison, Jennifer Brennan and the executive producer is Ken Williams.
I'm Mike Carruthers.
Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know.
Hey, it's Hilary Frank from The Longest, Shortest Time, an award-winning podcast about parenthood and reproductive health.
There is so much going on right now in the world of reproductive health, and we're covering it all.
Birth control, pregnancy, gender, bodily autonomy, menopause, consent, sperm.
So many stories about sperm.
And of course, the joys and absurdities of raising kids of all ages.
If you're new to the show, check out an episode called the staircase.
It's a personal story of mine about trying to get my kids school to teach sex ed spoiler.
I get it to happen, but not at all in the way that I wanted.
We also talked to plenty of non-parents. so you don't have to be a parent to listen.
If you like surprising funny, poignant stories about human relationships and you know periods, The Longest, Shortest Time is for you.
Find us in any podcast app or at LongestShortestTime.com.
