From LinkedIn News, I'm Jessi Hempel, host of the Hello Monday podcast.
Start your week with the Hello Monday podcast.
We'll navigate career pivots. We'll learn where happiness fits in.
Listen to Hello Monday with me, Jessi Hempel, on the LinkedIn Podcast Network or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey, I'm Kwame Christian and you are about to step into the world of Negotiate Anything. the number one negotiation podcast in the world where we teach you how to make difficult conversations easier while getting more of what you want in the process.
Each episode is packed with practical tips and strategies from the experts we delve into negotiation, conflict resolution, and leadership skills that are crucial in both business and in life.
Whether you're closing a deal, managing a team, or navigating personal relationships, Negotiate Anything provides you with the tools you need to succeed.
Our conversations are real, relatable, and most importantly, rooted in practicality.
So if you're ready to transform your conversations and elevate your negotiation skills, join me on Negotiate Anything.
Subscribe and listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you love to listen.
Let's make every conversation a winning negotiation.
All right. I am really excited about this episode because I have my good friend Vanessa Gabalero on the show.
She's going to talk to us about how to negotiate your salary and a lot more.
So Vanessa is a talent acquisition manager and she has years of experience negotiating salary offers.
She's also building a side business where she helps women in their 20s and 30s find their voice after divorce. as they start to rebuild their lives and become not only financially independent, but most importantly, emotionally powerful.
So it's a really unique business and I encourage you to reach out to Vanessa if that speaks to you.
Here are a few things that I want you to focus on as we go through the interview.
First, we discuss the important differences between using a staffing agency and applying directly with a company. or trying to advance within the same company.
We also talk about the major pitfalls to avoid when negotiating your salary.
And on that topic, we run through and in incredibly helpful scenario that will show you what not to do. in the salary negotiation, which is just as important as knowing what to do in a negotiation.
And lastly, Vanessa answers questions from listeners like you.
So if you're listening and you have further questions on this issue, on either specifically salary negotiation or how to advance within your company. write them down and send them my way because Vanessa said she's willing to come back and do part two down the road.
So without further ado, let's jump into the interview.
All right. I am here with my good friend, Vanessa, and we are excited to talk about employment negotiations.
So thank you so much for joining us today, Vanessa.
Yeah, thanks for having me. So let's get started with just the typical interview question.
Tell me about yourself. Okay, so that's a pretty loaded question, but let me then break it down for you.
So I was born and raised in Philadelphia.
And I I moved abroad when I was. 18 to Lisbon, Portugal, because my parents are Portuguese.
Well, my family is Portuguese. I moved abroad for a few years where I got my undergrad in social and organizational psychology.
And I lived there for about seven years.
I started right after college working within talent acquisition, so recruiting, hiring, mostly in a staffing agency environment.
And then after a few years of working overseas, I wanted to come back home. for a lot of personal reasons.
I mean, on top of going through a divorce when I was in my mid twenties, I just, I knew that it was time to go back home.
So. I moved back and that's when I started working within corporate talent acquisition.
And my first opportunity within corporate was with the company that I'm currently with, and it's a Swedish hygiene paper company.
And they're also they're based in Philadelphia.
Their U.S. headquarters are here. So now, within the company, I've been able to grow.
I now manage a team of amazing men and women.
And I lead the North American talent acquisition team for this hygiene company. about 10 years of experience in recruiting.
Very nice. So I'm assuming in that role, you've had the opportunity to do a lot of negotiating.
Mm-hmm. Yes. So I have, let's see, I've extended probably hundreds of offers at this point.
A lot. Um, yeah, I mean, not, not only here, but I mean, throughout my career and, um, you know, if you know anything about agency recruiting, it's really aggressive You almost have placements, so it's an extremely competitive environment.
I've extended, yeah, hundreds of offers.
There's definitely, you know, tricks to it and, you know, I think I think where I've succeeded with salary negotiation with candidates is really that relationship.
I mean that's what it comes down to is the relationship that you build with the candidate and then trying to get them on board to work with the company that you're with or you're representing and that's that's all it comes down to so yeah That's my experience with salary negotiation.
Can you tell us a little bit about the difference between agency recruiting and corporate recruiting?
So I would say the main difference between agency recruiting and corporate recruiting is that You know, you get a chance to build deeper relationships and more meaningful relationships within corporate. because you're representing one company, you're bringing in top talent, for the company that you're with, right?
That says everything about you and you get the opportunity to see this top talent that you bring in grow within the organization.
And that's what makes my role so rewarding is that I've been here for four years now.
And I've seen people that I hired over three years ago get promoted. and I see them grow within the company.
You don't get that advantage, I think, in the agency side.
And so A lot of times with agency recruiting, You have to be mindful of the fact that only you know your worth, your value. and your career ambitions.
And I think you have to be a little bit more assertive. with agency recruiters because they're not experts for the company's that they're hiring for.
A lot of them aren't, right? Just always be mindful of that.
They have a lot of different clients and They don't have...
They probably don't have as much detail or insight as to the companies that they're talking to about. or trying to recruit you into, right? just being mindful of that relationship and the fact that it should be a little different between agency staff staffing, and corporate staffing or corporate recruiting.
That's really interesting because for me, I never really thought about the differences, but I mean, it seems significant.
And when you said be more assertive in kind of standing up for what you want to do as far as your career path and your goals?
How does that manifest itself in the process?
Yeah. So I think more so on the agency side, and this is just my experience, it's a little bit more of that that sales environment where you want to close your deals at the end of the month.
And this is the reality of it. and you know I have very very good friends in the agency world and you know I admire what they do and I was such a huge part of it for so long.
On the corporate side though, it's just different because You have different insight into the company when it comes to compensation, culture. values, you know, our mission.
And it's just it's You don't have a quota to fill at the end of the month.
You just need to get top talent into your company.
And it's all about. who you're bringing in and how much you're giving back to the business that you're a part of, right?
So it's a little different. In that sense, when it comes to being aggressive, I...
I know that agency recruiters, they have to be aggressive and that's how the industry works.
There's a lot of competition. incorporate, you're not competing with anyone.
You're just you're focused on what you're not competing with other recruiters or other talent acquisition teams. you're one team and you're competing with other companies for top talent.
It's just a different mentality. Still aggressive, but I think from a candidate standpoint, just being mindful of the relationship piece with both.
That's fascinating because it's important for everybody in negotiation to really understand the motives of everybody that's involved because most of the time When you're in a negotiation, you just see you and the person with whom you're speaking, and those are the only parties.
When you do a thorough negotiation analysis, you realize that there are more players involved and the motivations aren't obvious all the time.
So I'm really glad you said that. Yeah, I would completely agree.
I've always said that my success in hiring talent is incredible. making them happy, meaning making candidates that I'm working with happy early on through transparency.
So, um, I always encourage candidates to be as open as possible with me on as to what they're looking for why they're looking because that will that will make things so much easier for both of us, but most importantly, why they're looking, because that will make things so much easier easier for both of us, but most importantly for them.
And I think it's harder to see that when you're not within the company.
Right. You're trying to get in. And as an outsider and as a candidate, It's harder to see certain things, but I've always said that negotiation when it comes to salary is just...
It's so much better and easier and rewarding when you're just open and transparent early on.
Hello my friends, before we get back to today's episode, I want to ask you a question.
Have you ever wondered how to elevate your team's negotiation game and how you can help the folks on your team have better difficult conversations, At the American Negotiation Institute, we offer transformative keynotes and workshops tailored to empower professionals with top tier negotiation and conflict resolution skills.
Whether it's a keynote for your next event or hands-on training for your team, we've got you covered.
Don't just negotiate, master the art with the American Negotiation Institute.
Click the link in the description to find out more.
Elevate, negotiate, and succeed. Hey, I'm Michael Kovnat, host of The Next Big Idea Daily.
The show is a masterclass in better living. from some of the smartest writers around.
Every morning, Monday through Friday, We'll serve up a quick 10 minute lesson on how to strengthen your relationships, supercharge your creativity, boost your productivity and more.
Follow The Next Big Idea daily wherever you get your podcasts.
So one of the best ways to learn how to do something is by getting examples of what not to do.
So can you give us an example of something you shouldn't do in a salary negotiation?
This is definitely a hypothetical situation.
But I think it's important to understand what... what you shouldn't be doing in a negotiation because Negotiating poorly when it comes to salary can truly hurt you. in getting what you want or even in certain relationships that you're trying to build, right?
In giving you a specific scenario, so when you're going through a hiring process, you usually have a phone interview, a first initial phone interview with you know a recruiter or someone on the talent acquisition team and they usually would cover compensation with you, right?
A good recruiter or talent acquisition, member wants to know a little bit more about your expectations, your salary expectations.
And so you usually cover that on the first call, and I'd hope you would.
Um, my advice would be to always share as a candidate what you're looking for in your next salary.
The recruiter might probe a little bit more on what you're making now, but...
I would openly share what you're looking for.
So for example, if If you're looking for 100K in your next salary, and that's really what you want to make, that's okay. say that and not be afraid of saying that, right?
In that role, you've done your research, you know what you're making.
You know what the position might offer based on the industry that it's in. and you want that 100K, right?
So I would encourage... any candidate to openly share that with the recruiter or with whoever they're initially in contact with.
And so, they openly share that they want $100K as a candidate.
Great. we proceed right in the hiring process and we go through the interviews, onsite interviews, next rounds, which don't drag on too much or at least they shouldn't, right?
And then you get to that offer stage. And that 100K that you were looking for, And you got that input early on from the recruiter or from the talent acquisition member that you're working with. right, you got that input and they wouldn't have dragged you along. hopefully, if it wasn't something that was obtainable for the company. you get to that offer stage and they extend to you what you're looking for.
They extend you the $100,000 base salary plus whatever it may be.
If there's bonus opportunity, other perks, benefits.
You get the 100K that you openly shared with from early on.
Great. You're in a good spot. You go to your current employer, the one that you're looking to leave.
Right. This is the scenario. And you tell them. that you're leaving. and you want to hand in your notice.
Because ultimately, you got what you were looking for.
You openly shared it early on. And you're excited about the new opportunity.
But your current employer doesn't want to lose you.
And they go back and say, well, you know what?
What was your offer? 100? Fine. I'll give you 110.
I'll give you 115. whatever it takes so that you don't leave.
You go back to the recruiter at this new company that you're looking forward to joining, and you say, You know what?
I thank you so much. I'm so excited about this opportunity you gave me.
But your current employer doesn't want to lose you.
And they go back and say, well, you know what?
What was your offer? 100? Fine. I'll give you 110.
I'll give you 115. Whatever it takes so that you don't leave. you go back to the recruiter at this new company that you're looking forward to joining. and you say, you know what, I thank you so much, I'm so excited about this opportunity.
You gave me what I was looking for. I mean, everything aligned because you wanted that 100 and that's what you got. but now your current employer is saying, well, you know what, I'm going to give you even more.
So you go back to this potential employer and say, my current employer offered me 110, even the possibility go up to 115.
Is there any way that I can get more at this point?
Now, mind you, rewind, you've accepted that $100K already. the most important detail out of the story.
You were so excited about the 100K, you accepted it, And you went to your employer literally to resign, right, to give in your notice.
And then they came back and countered. You've already accepted the $100K and you're going back to negotiate more.
Big no-no. That's what you shouldn't do.
Now, if you hadn't accepted the offer, there would have been an opportunity for to negotiate maybe a little bit more, but because you were always set and transparent about the hundred, you would be catching that potential employer off guard. and saying, you know what, I know I've always said $100, but can I get $105?
Or can I even get the $110,000 that my current employer is offering me, there's always going to be a reason why you want to leave, right?
And you want to build the right relationships early on with that potential new employer that you have, right, or that you might have.
So be very mindful that there's a time to negotiate.
And if you don't do it early on and then follow through with it, it might just come back to bite you to a certain degree. even if you've already accepted an offer, I mean, always turn it down, but what type of relationship is that going to leave? with that company that you were interviewing with, right?
Even if you do decide to stay with your current employer for more money, right?
So that's the scenario where in a perfect world...
I would say follow through with that number or with what you're targeting early on.
And if you change your mind throughout the process, also let the recruiter or the talent acquisition member know.
You can always communicate when you change your mind and if there's something that you learned about the role that you didn't know early on.
You could always negotiate throughout. But when you get to that end part of the offer, right? you can only really negotiate once you receive the offer, you consider it, right?
And then you come back that first time to counter.
You get one counter essentially, but make sure that you counter before you accept the offer.
If you've accepted the offer, you really can't negotiate any bit more than that.
I love this hypothetical because it is so rich with with detail and nuance.
And I thank you so much for sharing this.
I have a few questions about it. So in that that initial phone conversation, when they ask for your expectation, what if you're not quite sure what the salary range is?
And there's always a situation. It's always going to be the case where the other side knows more than you do. in the negotiation.
Like, they know how much they can give. They know their budget.
And so there's a possibility you come in and you say, I'd like a hundred and they were thinking, we can give this person up to 120 and then they're just like, okay, you know, there's your hundred and you never know what you can get.
Do you think there's any value in kind of trying to dodge that question as well, as well as the how much you were making before?
Yeah, so... My advice to that is always do your research.
Leverage Glassdoor. They're so much insightful. salary information on Glassdoor. do that.
Definitely look into the industry, the role, and try to get as much insight as possible. before even discussing compensation.
That's rule number one. But the fact is, if you're at 80 and you've been underpaid, and the roll can go up to 120, but you're targeting 100, and you'd be okay with that.
Do your research. Don't dodge the question.
That's my advice. My advice is when the recruiter asks you what you're looking for, say that you're tar insisting because that's just, that's unprofessional to be quite honest.
Right. So it's, If they ask you once, give them a little bit of information.
Right. Because then they'll probably think, well, maybe this person's at 90 or whatever. at 95 and if they ask you, then just say, I'm around that ballpark.
You don't ever have to give a number once they start probing a little bit more. but definitely provide a number that you would be happy with knowing what the market pays, the industry, the role right after you've done your research.
But make sure that you say, You know this position pays more than what you're targeting, right? you openly say the hundred, but when they come back and offer you a hundred and you really know that the position can pay up to 120, you negotiate 110.
And then you'll probably get maybe even 105, right?
They'll meet you halfway if they really want you. and then you just got an extra 5K out of it.
The truth is, even if a position can pay up to 120, it varies.
It's based on experience, knowledge, education, right?
And you may not be eligible for the 120. according to the range that the company has, right?
So be mindful of that and know what you're worth.
Fight for what you're worth, but don't...
I would encourage you to share. a number that you are truly happy with and is comparable fairly early on. so that you get what you want out of this.
Very nice. Now what if you're applying online and they have that box and the box has that red asterisk of doom that requires you to say your salary there. your current salary how do you avoid that yeah that's that's a tough one you know um Is there any way that they can just add a little dash instead of a number?
We don't have that in our application process, so I would not. add a number in my application if I was a candidate.
I would not do it. I would find a way to just... put something there where you can maybe add you know a few numbers like a you know a dash or I don't know, a plus sign, right?
Something that... that gets by and that they look at your resume, they like what they see, they see that you didn't add a number, which means, you know what?
We might need to talk this through, which is fine.
And then they'll call you anyway, right?
So in an application, I would not add compensation.
And with the counter, do you have any rules of thumb when it comes to countering?
Like, how do we know how much to counter with?
That's a great question. Yeah, I mean, in my personal experience, it's always been about that conversation early on. really manages expectations for both parties.
So, realistically, I mean, you would leave your current job, with your current company, if you were to make you know, a significant jump, right?
And when I say significant, I mean, it's It's more than what you'd make in an increase at your current role or your current job.
So I'm going to say you want to leave your company for at least 20%, right?
And if you share that number early on with that 20% increase, then I think in terms of a counter, it should be I mean an additional 5% or 10% beyond that.
I mean, if you're thinking about it and leaving your current position for a 30% increase in base salary, that's huge, right?
So in numbers and in simplifying that Let's go back to the 100K example, right?
If you... If you openly said that you were targeting 100K, that those are your that's your expectation right when it comes to salary increase and you get $100,000 in your offer, I would negotiate for...
108 if you can, if you have justification for it. if you've had those conversations early on, if you have that relationship with your recruiter, and if you've indicated that that's something that would be very important to you.
I would negotiate at the 107, 108 so that you can probably get 105.
Now putting your recruiter hat on, let's say, You didn't have... Well, you would have a conversation about expectations and the person says... well, you know, I'd like to have an opportunity where I can make between 100 and 120. and then kind of put it at a range.
And then you come with a $100,000 offer. and they counter at 117.
How would you feel? as a recruiter, but if they were able to back it up with like legitimate criteria, how would that make you feel in your position?
Yeah, so I'll put my recruiter hat on there.
100 and 120 is a very, very large range.
So I would level set very. Put my recruiter hat on there.
100 and 120 is a very, very large range.
So I would level set very early on. I would say, okay. what are we looking at realistically?
I mean, 120 Does it mean that you're okay with 100?
I would level set X. and truly understand you know, where they want to be because if it's that high of a range, then The 120 is probably where they would absolutely love to be at, but they don't think it's very realistic. which is why they're giving that large of a range, right?
It's really the psychology piece behind it.
I would definitely probe a little bit more on that first conversation when they say 100 to 120. and say, okay, so If we were to, at the end of this process, extend you $100,000, how realistic is it that you would accept?
I would really ask that question early on to understand if 100 is a respectable offer because that's what's most important to me as a recruiter.
Or is it that 110, 115, and they're just trying to get a little bit more and say 120?
So it just comes back to expectations. early on having these conversations that are so important that everyone is scared to have and But you just can't because if you don't, it'll hurt. you at the end as a candidate and it will not help the company.
And hopefully the company is being as transparent as you are in the process.
I love that question you came back with.
How would you feel with 100? It's an expert level negotiation question because you're reality testing. because the person was trying to sneak through saying a big old range. so they can then kind of hold that over your head later on down the road when they get an offer.
But it was an expert response, coming back with an open-ended question, asking for elaboration on their perspective on their true outlook and, And I think that's something that people need to keep in mind.
You can't just walk into these salary negotiations thinking, oh, you know, I got this when you're dealing with people like you. who do this for a living so there's really no opportunity unless you have between the ages of 22 and whatever, you've gone through 100 jobs.
There's no way for them to be on your level when it comes to the salary negotiation.
Yeah, I mean, experience helps in negotiation, I would agree, but it wouldn't be... fair to the candidate that just said they're targeting 100 to 120, it wouldn't be fair to them if I didn't as a recruiter probe a little bit more because that would lead them on to later wanting an unrealistic number as a base salary. and possibly the company not even being able to offer it.
We both walk away unhappy at the end of the process, right?
And that's the last thing I want. So yes, as a professional, we should probe a little bit more when we face this type of situation.
Yeah, you're right. That does make a lot of sense.
All right, so now we're going to shift gears a little bit.
We're going to hit these next questions as Q&A style because I got a lot of responses from people in our audience.
And so we're just going to read them verbatim and then you just bless us with your wisdom.
Good. Okay. So this question is from Shannon.
I was just looking at the salary growth for creatives and it's terrible, even when you get to a director level.
How do you see your value from the company side instead of putting your own self doubts into the equation?
You know what, that's a question that just has so much to it, right?
You know, remove the obstacles from your mindset.
That's the first thing, right? How do you see your value, right, without... self-doubt, you know what, look at it this way.
How are you the go-to person? you know, in different situations within your company.
Look at it that way. start realizing what people come to you for. what they search for when they're talking to you, right? what they want to collaborate with you on. look at it from that standpoint of value, right?
I know companies a lot of times say, well, you know what?
You know, that person's replaceable, but you know what?
You're not. You are as valuable as... you put yourself out there to be.
So completely remove that self-doubt and from the equation because that inner voice that's constantly saying, you know what, you didn't do that right, so let's do it over. completely remove that because only you can put yourself out there and in your company so that they see your value.
That's all within your control. So don't forget that.
From your mindset. That's the first thing, right?
How do you see your value, right, without... self-doubt.
You know what? Look at it this way. How are you the go-to person? you know, in different situations within your company.
Look at it that way. start realizing what people come to you for. what they search for when they're talking to you, right? what they want to collaborate with you on. look at it from that standpoint of value, right?
I know companies a lot of times say, well, you know what?
You know, that person's replaceable, but you know what?
You're not. You are as valuable as... You put yourself out there to be so completely remove that self-doubt. from the equation because that inner voice that's constantly saying, you know what, you didn't do that right.
So let's do it over, completely remove that because only you can put yourself out there in your company so that they see your value.
That's all within your control. So don't forget that.
I love that response because a lot of times it's hard. when you're that close to yourself.
I mean, there's nobody physically closer to you than yourself.
Sometimes you're too close to see the value that you can bring.
And so your response of saying, figure out where your value is as far as like, what makes you the go-to person?
And also, one thing that I've found is when I ask people, like, what do you think of me in XYZ situation?
You'd be really surprised the insight you can get from some people who have a different perspective.
And a lot of times you'll be pleasantly surprised.
So I really love that advice. Good, good, yeah.
Asking for that constructive feedback is so important.
But I think that's the toughest thing, you know, what you just said, asking for, you on how you are in certain situations, you're so scared that you're gonna get something that you're going to get a response that you weren't looking for, right, or that you weren't hoping for is what prevents you from asking. can get in the first place.
So, yeah, value does come from putting yourself out there.
And that was a great example, Kwame. Nice, well thank you.
I want to give a quick shout out to my friends on the Paychecks and Balances podcast because they have an episode called. making yourself indispensable.
And I think that will help you all out when it comes to figuring out your value for the company.
So check that out. on the Paychecks and Balances podcast too.
Another question from Shannon. How do you ask for more when you're still learning and working towards becoming an expert?
Yeah, that's a great question. So without realizing it, you're probably already an expert in what you do.
So really break it down. Remove industry, remove you know, specific information to your role, right? look at what you do in your day to day and look around you and see if there's anyone else that does it as well as you do. or that has the amount of potential that you do in what you're doing, if that makes any sense.
Right. So look at yourself as an expert. and remove anything else from the equation.
I have to say that there are certain industries that... naturally pay more than others based on what they manufacture, based on what they sell. whether it's a product, a service, for example, pharmaceuticals.
They make a lot of money because they sell their products. you know, in a very pricey fashion, let's put it that way, you know?
So they're making a lot of money, and they can probably pay you more because of it.
So look at the industry that you're in. evaluate whether it makes you happy, whether you're learning, with where you are as quickly as you want to learn, right?
Because if you're not, reevaluate what's most important to you.
Reevaluate who you're working with because that's who you learn most with is the people around you. reevaluate what you're accomplishing, right?
So there are certain industries which I know won't be able to pay you as much.
But get that insight from Glassdoor again. use the tools, use the internet, use what's out there, to learn a little bit more about what you can accomplish if you were in a different setting. and then really evaluate if what you're doing now and where you're doing it is is getting you closer to where you want to be.
Right, and another thing too, to speaking towards expertise, expertise is relative.
So you might feel like you don't have much expertise compared to the CEO of the company. but relative to other people, you are the expert.
You're always going to be learning. And then it also depends on the relationship that you have with your man. and how comfortable you are with your manager.
But regardless of that, Go into the conversation, ask to set up some time and go into the conversation on a very positive note. of note.
Be prepared to talk to your manager about what you've accomplished, what you've gone above and beyond for and where you still want to grow. so that you allow your manager to see your full potential in how you see yourself.
Because only you can limit yourself. So once you do that, have a specific... increase in mind that you're looking for, right?
Based on your research, based on what you know about your company, there is an advantage to being an internal employee.
So think about all of that and go into it with, for example, a percentage that you'd that you target in terms of an increase.
Let's say 10%, even number, 10%. If your manager isn't able to at least meet you halfway, then suggest the following.
Suggest a midyear increase. Ask for the 5% now that they're willing to offer you because you've earned it. and set specific deliverables and objectives for what you want to cover in the next six months. and ask for the additional 5% increase at the end of those six months upon revision of those objectives and if they've been obtained. see what they say.
That's my suggestion there. I love that.
And it's essentially like a pre-negotiation.
You make it almost like math. You agree on certain objectives.
And then certain deliverables. And once they're delivered, they deliver the salary increase.
I love that. Yep. So, Shannon, you have some homework.
And you know I'm going to check up on you.
So... get working on that and I'm going to make a freebie salary negotiation freebie for you all to download.
So if you go to AmericanNegotiationInstitute.com slash salary.
You can get that and start. game planning and preparing for your next negotiation.
So that was for you, Shannon. So this question is from Faria.
She says, some companies will ask you to do more and more and continue to pile more work onto your plate. without reflecting the increased work with increased compensation.
How would you suggest that we handle that?
Yeah. So the beauty of pushing back, I think that's, That's my initial thought there, right?
And notice I didn't say the word no, right?
Which is everyone's fear. And that's why they allow the work to pile on.
This is about two things. It's about your own growth and learning and how you continue to challenge yourself.
So evaluate whether the work that's being given to you is... is doable from a time standpoint, right?
If you can actually tackle it and what you're going to learn from it.
If it's basic work that won't allow you to keep growing, right, and it's just standard probably no one else wants to do or they're willing to do. then that's where I'm gonna say, push back a little bit and say, you know what?
Thank you for coming to me and for asking me, but I can only do this. out of what you're asking me so you know don't say no and don't turn the person down completely But set early on the expectation of I want to do this for you. but I want to do it well.
And to be able to do that, I can't do it all.
I can only do this much of it for you. Is that okay?
Are you okay with that? Do you have someone else that can help you with the other part?
If you position it that way, they won't see it as being turned down. or is receiving a no from you, you're willing to help, right?
But you're giving yourself that respect, right, of, you know what?
this person just, they don't wanna do it, right?
This person doesn't wanna do this work, they're coming to me with it.
I'm going to push back and stay on my ground so that I respect myself and most importantly, they see that and they respect me.
Wow. You know, I like to come up with follow-up questions on that, but...
You pretty much handled everything. That was really good.
That was really good. I need to figure out how to tell my boss to stop giving me work, but that might be.
A bit problematic since I work for myself, but...
Yeah. Yeah. So then then use the same rationale.
Right. So what what is. going to challenge you to keep growing and what can you maybe outsource somewhere else or ask someone else to help you with.
Right. So. Use that same concept though.
I know it's harder said than done. My boss to stop giving me work, but you know, that might be, A bit problematic since I work for myself.
Yeah. Yeah. So then then use the same rationale.
Right. So what what is. going to challenge you, right?
Keep growing. And what can you maybe... outsource somewhere else or ask someone else to help you with, right?
Use that same concept though. I know it's harder said than done. right no but i think you're right i think we're i'm at the point now where i need to seriously consider adding people to my team.
Here, it's always a scary step in business, but you know.
That's how there's no, you know, Fortune 1000 solo business.
So I need to change my mentality. But I know time is short.
I want to finish up with one more question.
And we actually just got this question today.
And so this question is from Isaac. And so he says right now, the biggest thing he wants out of his job is education.
He needs to learn as much as he can. The reason, and he says, the reason I've been pushed for a larger salary is so that I can afford more education.
I've talked with my boss before about seminars and such, but he pushes them off.
Earning more would enable me to book learning opportunities.
Does that negotiation approach increase salary to afford education?
Does that make sense or should I be doing something else?
Yeah, that's such an excellent question.
Okay, so most companies or a lot of companies have tuition reimbursement programs. which allow you to get your undergrad or go and get your your grad, go to grad school, right?
Go and get your master's, your MBA. They allow you to invest in higher education.
If your company doesn't have that or if that's not what you're going for and you want just You want to go to more seminars.
You want to go to more conferences and come back with that learning experience. then I think it'll help if you just sit down with your manager and literally tell them, you know, what's the ROI?
What's the return on investment? what's in it for them, right?
And align the learning from that seminar or that conference to your team's objectives to the business objectives of the company, right?
Because I think it'll help if you allow your manager to understand what's in it for them.
That's really what it comes down to. Money equals value, right?
So, So it's great that you want to invest in your education, but you need to link it back to to the business if you want them to pay for it, right?
That's what it comes down to. So if you commit to going to the seminar, this conference, and you come back with specific deliverables, or you come back with specific objectives. that you're looking to learn and then bring back and implement, for example. then I think that will allow your manager to understand the value of the education that you're looking for and would help you invest in that.
I don't believe that companies increase your salary because you want to pursue education.
It's always something separate, it's through you know a tuition reimbursement program as a formal program in the company or it's on the side investment of your own growth and learning through seminars and conferences, but they need to be linked back to the company and to the growth of the company.
And it needs to be aligned with what you're looking for as well.
I think that's a great response. And what would you say to Isaac when it comes to really framing that conversation? in a way that doesn't scare the manager up front.
Because I'm sure if Isaac comes in and says, I want more money, the person's going to kind of get on guard, you know?
That initial ask, like, how does he approach his manager?
Yeah, so I would not approach that conversation going into it from an education standpoint if you're just looking to increase your base salary, right? just know that both things usually aren't connected.
Go into it thinking, okay, whether it's a salary increase, right?
You have to position it one way in general, right? given your worth, your accomplishments, your value, that's one thing.
If you just want to go in there and Give your manager the ROI behind what you want to do with your education and these seminars and these conferences. align back to what might be on a performance review, right?
So what might be your own goals for the year objectives, what your team goals may be, what the business objectives are.
Right. Go back to that and prepare for that conversation. so that you disarm your manager with any other follow-up questions that he or she may have. that might just might decrease your chances, right, in getting that buy-in.
So go into it and say, you know what? I will obviously always thank them for their time and go in and just say, you know what, I...
I value what I, what do you think? always ask them at the end of the conversation after you completely bombard them with all of the facts.
Ask them what they think because that will get their buy-in.
That will get their input. that is what will allow them to say, you know what?
I never thought about it that way. I'd be open to you going.
And this is where they may negotiate a little bit with you.
I know you want to go to this seminar or this conference, but why don't you try going to just one day or to two days out of that entire conference from From a financial standpoint, I think it'll be better for us.
Is that still within the ROI that you just presented, May?
Be prepared. Have that conversation fully thought out. to get what you want to continue learning.
I don't know if that answered the question.
Yeah, it does. Okay, cool. And one of the things that you said that I really want to key in on here And this is really an expert level strategy when it comes to figuring out really what the manager or your boss cares about, looking at the goals and objectives that he or she set for you. those are the things that are most important.
And so that gives you the opportunity. that insight gives you the opportunity to frame the whole discussion from their perspective.
So you're speaking their language from the beginning.
Go back to old emails. What is it that they care about?
What are the things that they say repeatedly?
Use those words and phrases to speak their language because, like I said in one of the other podcasts, People have a self-serving bias.
They feel like they are really smart If you say things that sounds like them, they'll think you're really smart too.
So that would be a really strong. um, way for you to increase your persuasion just by essentially mirroring their what they've said in the past.
I completely agree. That's awesome. Yep.
Yeah, nothing more to add to that Kwame.
That was beautiful. Thank you. This was so much fun.
Thank you so much for joining us. And thank you all the listeners for your questions.
Thanks for having me. This is so much fun.
I love the Q&A portion of it. It's And it makes me feel like I'm truly making a difference to the listener.
Hey, if we do another Q&A part two, I'd love that.
I'd be open to it. I am happy to help. And, you know, with my experience, I know that I can make a difference.
So I would love I would love to come back.
Thank you. Thanks again for having me. Wait, wait, wait, wait.
Now, before you sign off, I have something to tell you that I've never told you before.
Just kidding, I've told you before, but you should listen to it again.
I want you to know about Negotiate Anything Premium.
Imagine all of the things that you love about our traditional feed, plus so much more.
I know you like our traditional feed because you're at the end of the episode.
And with Negotiate Anything Premium, you'll get more bonus content you've been asking for. more of the expert insights that you can't get anywhere else, and more exclusive behind the scenes access into every conversation.
Are you ready to get more of what you want out of your life, career, and every conversation?
With Negotiate Anything Premium, you'll have access to more high level, custom designed content and insights giving you the tools you need to negotiate higher salaries, better deals, and better relationships in your life and career.
Once I had a listener share that Negotiate Anything helped her to negotiate a $53,000 raise.
Could this be you? What would that mean for your life?
I've seen firsthand the impact this model has had on my life and the lives of my corporate clients, and I am confident that it can do the same for you. are you ready to negotiate more of the best things in life click the link in the show notes to learn more i'll catch you later
