My name's Ryan Shelton.
I'm a co-host on The Imperfects, the Jewish grandson of Austrian and English immigrants, and I grew up on and am now currently living on Wurundjeri country.
I'd like to recognise the traditional peoples of this continent, whose land was stolen nearly 250 years ago.
In particular, we at The Imperfects would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation as the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast was recorded, and we extend our respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.
The rich storytelling history of the world's oldest living culture is what we proudly pay homage to when we share stories on The Imperfects.
We have a brand new set of Vulnerability House cards.
The Vulnerability House Volume 2.
New design, new box, all new questions.
Do you have any regrets about the way you have treated others?
I'm going to get emotional already, but the person that comes to mind actually is Hugh.
The Imperfects invites you into a very safe place.
A place where we share without judgement and drink heaps of vulnerability.
Grab yourself a cup.
This is the Vulnerability House.
It's exciting announcement day.
Sometimes we have exciting announcements and they're great days.
So good to see you both.
Great to see you too.
This is a different sort of episode this week because we have a brand new set of Vulnerability House cards ready releasing now.
I just press the button, they're available.
The vulnerability house volume two, that's right.
Just over two years ago, we released our first set of vulnerability house cards the ones that we were using on the show for years before that even and then you're able to buy them, play it at home, answer questions and uh, and then yeah we, we keep hearing everyone saying like, Release some more cards.
We need some more questions.
We're sick of these questions.
We're like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Chill out, Dad.
Dad didn't say that.
We're all just like, chill out, everyone.
We're going to release more.
And here we are.
Yeah.
The more I talk about it, and particularly right now, the more I wonder how long until Hugh says something in this episode.
I am feeling a lot of pain.
Because it's been a while.
Yeah.
I'm feeling a lot of pressure to say something, but I actually can't think of anything to say.
Oh, that's good.
That's all good.
Because, you know, and fair enough, you're only a broadcaster.
As you said, I was like, what could I say?
No, no, no, you actually don't have to say anything.
There's two things that I want to say.
Just popped into your head?
Yeah.
First of all, if you like Tequila Sunrise, you're going to love the design because it's got very much hardcore Tequila Sunrise elements. energy about it it really is without the tequila without the tequila which is probably a good thing yeah definitely a good thing and so the other thing I want to mention is that just looking at the cards it takes me back to it would have been 2000 and probably 20 2021 when we first started doing this yeah And we come up with a whole- First started doing the Vulnerability House, yeah.
Yeah, the Vulnerability House.
And I was very excited and I said, leave the cards to me because I'm going to get cards printed up.
They're going to have vulnerable questions on it.
And I got so excited to do that.
Now understanding my brain a bit better, ADHD, that was never, ever going to happen.
Great idea, but never, ever going to happen.
And the day we had our first episode of the Vulnerability House, as I was walking out the door, I went oh, I didn't design this.
I didn't design, print.
Right, right.
You did write.
I wrote the questions, but I'm thinking I probably don't have time to get them printed somewhere.
I don't know where I'd do that now because of the show.
We're recording in an hour's time.
So I looked around the house in a mad panic and I found Benji's Bluie cards.
He had a set of Bluie cards at the time and I –
Grabbed a whole lot of post-it notes, stuck them to the Bluey cards.
And so, for the first season or two of the Vulnerability House, we were reading questions off the Bluey cards.
That's right.
And wasn't that a fun time?
It was.
Yeah.
But we decided to step it up and become a bit more professional and get actual cards made.
Yeah.
And I think a few people have have said why they were kind of hoping they would still be Bluey cards when we released them and printed them.
But since then Bluey's become the largest streamed show in the entire world and I don't think our budget stretches to a partnership with Bluey on some cards.
If it was up to Joe Brum, he would probably say Bluey.
Joe would definitely say Bluey.
I'm not sure.
It's not up to him.
But, yeah, I love our cards.
I love, you know, it probably makes sense that they're not Bluey cards.
Yeah.
It would be weird too.
Yeah, because we never mention Bluey in the show at all.
So it would be slightly strange.
But these new cards are beautiful.
If Bluey wants to collaborate with us, we can chat.
Yeah, we definitely can chat.
Take the meeting.
Chat with Bluey.
Yeah, it'd be great to meet Bluey.
Like would we be animated or would Bluey be like, Hard to know.
Anyway, the exciting thing is you can buy these new cards, this new deck and you can play it at home or at work.
Family and people have been doing this for so long.
It's so nice whenever we hear... people doing this.
And it was actually amazing once where we did an event, a live event.
It was a school.
It was a school.
And they got a bunch of decks.
That was in Canberra.
Yeah.
And we saw we could in the foyer of the show we could see people sitting and like playing the cards and answering the cards.
It was amazing.
This is a moment where I'm really cursing my poor memory, because I know the lady who I can think of her face.
I've seen her recently at one of our teacher conferences.
She brought all her staff.
They played the game as they're waiting to come and say hi to us.
And I just wish I could say the school name and her name.
That would be magical.
Canberra High.
No.
Canberra School.
I want to say St.
Aloysius, our Lord of the Christ, Saviour, or something like that.
Let's assume that's wrong.
LAUGHTER
Lord of the Christ Saviour.
You know those schools that have like a long... Our Holy Redeemer of... Yeah, yeah.
All that kind of stuff.
The Lady of Mercy.
Yeah.
Lord of the Christ Saviour Bible College.
Okay, so what we're going to do is we thought to celebrate these new cards is.
This is how this started.
Before we had guests coming and answering the questions, the three of us would pick a card and answer questions.
So we're harking back to our origin story.
The last time.
I think we did this, when you and the three of us just pulled cards, was the last live show that we did.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Which is- The last stage live show.
We toured around the country.
Yeah.
We danced.
We didn't dance actually.
A little bit of dancing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And did you guys know we're doing it again?
Just to put in a real plug for the live show.
I have heard, yeah.
I subscribed to the Live Nation newsletter and I did see.
You should subscribe to our newsletter.
Yeah, well, I did hear that we've got our own one as well.
But true, to confirm and to remind, yeah, The Imperfects are going on tour.
Brand new show.
Brand new live show around the whole country.
Together Again, it's called.
Together Again, yes.
They will be singing.
I think there will be more dancing this time.
Yeah, but mainly the show is about connection.
We wanted to kind of have like an overall theme and topic to talk about.
And it's not a normal podcast episode.
I think a lot of people last time expected us to just do an episode on stage.
It's not that.
It's a show that won't be released on the podcast.
It's purely a live show for the people in the room.
Yeah.
All about connection and tickets are available at livenation.com.au.
So different from the last show.
There's so many different things like this.
Yes.
For example, what pants am I going to wear?
They will not be the same as last time because the world has changed.
Yeah.
I was wearing slim pants last time and I have changed.
Yeah.
And there's probably even more exciting things than that.
Yeah.
Wow.
Hugh just got fired from the marketing team.
No, make sure you rock up.
Check out what pants Hugh is wearing.
If you can guess, you get a $20 brushes voucher.
I mean, the whole reason we did it in the first place was we wanted to encourage vulnerability.
We found that having guests on to talk about their lives was just an incredible way of doing it.
But some people found it hard to, as in, where do I start and what should I talk about?
And we found that the cards were a really nice kind of like opening to maybe, you know, a memory from their past or something they were comfortable talking about.
We didn't want people to feel pressured to.
It's a great prompt, isn't it?
Yeah, we have found it a really nice prompt.
And what we have found is, and the reason we continue to do it is it leads to authentic connection with our guests.
The amount of people we feel.
We come and meet them.
They come in and do an episode, they pick a card and share something from their life.
Why is vulnerability in general important?
How many times do I have to tell you, Josh?
Tell him you.
So vulnerability is when you take an emotional risk when the outcome is uncertain.
And when you do that, more often than not, it will lead to authentic connection.
And that is what we, I feel like we need that more desperately than ever right now.
And will become increasingly important throughout the coming years.
So yes, that's why we continue to do it.
It would be so, so nice if the three of us could take credit for writing these questions, wouldn't it?
Wouldn't it be so great if the three of us could honestly say well, we spent a long time writing these questions and we came up with what we think are 52 really helpful, really brilliant, potentially life-changing questions.
Yeah.
But I think when people see the cards, they'll say, hang on a minute.
There's no freaking way.
There's been some foul play.
Well, this has got North East written all over this.
Bridge and Bella wrote all the questions and they're so, so great.
Brilliant.
Brilliant.
It's even better than the first pack.
And I thought the first pack was perfect.
True.
And the first pack is still good though because you can still buy it.
Yeah, exactly, Josh.
So you can buy them both.
They'll both be on the shop.
There's volume one and two always for sale because they're both great.
That's the great thing about things.
You can always buy them.
It is the great thing.
George Lucas, when he did Empire Strikes Back, he didn't say stop watching Star Wars.
Exactly.
Go back and watch Star Wars as well.
Yeah.
Okay, George, I will.
Yeah.
Many times.
Fine.
So we are going to each pick a random card.
So the way this works for people who don't know is that you pick three cards from the deck, you read them out and if one of them speaks to you, you answer that question if you have a story or something to bring.
So I'll kick it off.
Yeah.
So we've got these beautiful cards.
For those watching the video of this episode, you can see the Tequila Sunrise.
Hugh was referencing and I'll just pick three.
Okay.
Okay.
This feels good.
They feel good.
Don't they?
I was remarking that just before.
They feel great.
Yep.
And they look great.
God, we're the best.
Okay, here we go.
Have these been stress tested?
I was picturing Bridget just absolutely hammering Tambo with these questions.
I don't know if we can air that.
Sorry, Tambo is Bridget's partner.
We will put that through legal.
I very quickly added the bit about the questions.
TMI on behalf of Bridget.
Okay.
So the three cards that I have picked.
First one.
When have you prioritized harmony over truth and how do you feel about that choice now?
This question.
I mean, I think that the episode that people talk to me most about out of all the episodes we've done probably still is truth versus harmony, which was a Dr M episode which we'll link to in the show notes.
The topic of truth versus harmony is one that just really hit home for me.
So that is a great card.
Great question.
The next one I've got, the next card, where are you when you are truly happy?
Describe the same.
That's a really nice one.
Third one, do you have any regrets about the way you have treated others?
Okay.
And also just for people listening to this.
If you do get these cards, you can be flexible the way you play it.
Like if you pick three cards and all of them either feel not relevant to you or too vulnerable, at that point you don't need, you can keep going through the cards.
There's different ways of doing it.
So what's happened for me now is and this sometimes happens when you pick certain cards that it really rings true.
So my heart started racing when I read the third one, because I've got something that I can say about it which is sort of yeah.
And it's something that I actually have been thinking about a lot recently and now feels a good, nice private moment that I can share it.
So do you have any regrets about the way you have treated others?
I feel really uncomfortable and really nervous now, because the person that comes to mind actually weirdly and this will sound surprising maybe is Hugh.
Do you have any regrets about the way you've treated others?
I know it doesn't necessarily make sense immediately, but You have.
I'm going to get emotional already, but you have had a really hard year.
Like so much stuff has happened and I've noticed so many times that I haven't.
I haven't shown up for you like I want to or like I wish I did.
And I'm just, and it's like, I forget.
It's like every now and again I'll remember.
It's like oh my God, Hugh's going through this tough thing.
And I'm not going to go into it because it's not necessarily, but people who listen to the podcast will know this.
It's just been a year.
It's been a year.
And I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it's safe to say that you have been really struggling at times.
And I just feel really guilty, to be honest, that I'm not, supporting you like I want to be.
Not to say that you need me or you need me to come and like save you, but I will.
If you want me to save you, I will.
But it made me think about a question that I guess that we had.
She brought up the idea, or explained to us the idea, of asking someone a question in terms of like checking in with someone.
And the question was and I want to ask you this, Hugh is how can I show up for you in a way that would be meaningful to you?
I want to be there for you so much, but often I don't know how, other than like sending a silly video that I know will make you or Penny or the kids laugh, potentially.
I mean, I could do that.
Definitely do that.
But it's like, but that doesn't, it feels like I can do that.
If that's the answer, that's great.
But I genuinely want to know and this is maybe a bit unfair, putting you on the spot but um, What is a way that I could show up for you in a way that would be meaningful?
I wanna be really supportive and I wanna help you because we're friends and I love you.
But often I don't know what to do.
And as an example of a time that comes to mind in the last couple of months when this sort of feeling came over me or I had a thought of like oh, I should be doing more or I should be showing up for humor, was when I was away and we had to record an ad and we did like a Zoom recording while I was away and that was so fun.
It was just us like recording this ad or a couple of ads we had to do and we did the ads, but then we also just like chatted and it was really fun.
It was so good to see you both.
And then I think, Hugh, you said either in that –
During that or just afterwards you said like something like this is the most you've laughed, or the – I think.
In a WhatsApp message I just said yeah, it's the first time I felt joy since we stopped recording, I think.
Yeah, since I went away.
Yeah.
And I was like, whoa.
It sort of was a bit of a wake-up call of like, oh, okay then.
Because like the chat was fine.
Like it was good.
It was really nice.
But it made me like put things in – perspective for me in a way that I guess I didn't realize in that moment how tough it had been for you in that time.
And that really kind of illustrated.
Oh, if that chat was the most joy you felt, then things must be really tough.
And so I remember thinking after that, I didn't know.
I felt bad that I didn't know that you were going through that level of struggle.
And then I thought afterwards, I was like, oh, how can I show up?
How can I do something?
How can I make a difference in your life and make it easier?
And I didn't really know what to do necessarily.
And then I just did nothing.
Then there'd be another interaction with you somewhere and then I'd be reminded of it again.
I was like, oh shit, why haven't I done anything?
Why haven't I sent something or like i don't know something, and and that just happened a few more times and i just felt really guilty and yeah um, thank you, that's a really lovely, really lovely thing.
So the first thing is i felt very shocked when you said that, when you said me, because i have not at any point this year thought gosh ryan isn't being overly supportive, so i've never, i've never felt that or thought that.
And I wasn't really in a position to.
Yeah, you were overseas, so there's nothing that you could have done at the toughest point um, and i always just feel like this is sound cliche, but i will make it more specific but all i ever want is for you to be yourself around me, and because no one makes me laugh like you do, like i've never met anyone who can make me laugh like you do, and that is by far the most um powerful way you can help me.
Because, like even today, coming today, I was very flat and then came in here and you made me laugh so much within five seconds of being here.
And then I just felt like doing this.
Like I really felt like being here because of how much you made me laugh.
So I've never once thought, gosh, where's Ryan or why isn't Ryan here?
And you have, like when you got back, you're like, when can we catch up?
When can I see you?
My answer was I can't.
I can't.
Yeah.
The only time we have to catch up is at night and I can't.
Things at home are a bit too difficult to just leave at night now.
So the answer is I don't think there's anything you can really do other than continue to be yourself around me, because it's Okay.
Well, I'll keep trying to be myself, but I also...
And maybe this is like I often feel, this guilt, I guess, when it comes to I worry that I like disappear from people's lives when it gets hard.
It's almost like it gets really hard.
I don't know what to do.
And so I just back away.
I just back into the hedge and I can't do it.
I can't help.
So I'll just forget about it.
It's not a conscious thing.
I'm not like choosing to step away.
But I do notice that I do that sometimes.
And I have thought over the last couple of months that I've...
It's sort of an excuse, but it's sort of not, because it's like whether I'm overseas or two suburbs away, it doesn't make a big difference really.
Because I know for sure that if the roles are reversed, you do show up for people in a way that I don't think I do.
And I know that if I was going through that and you knew I was going through that, you would be checking in with me a lot, because that is the sort of person that you are.
Hmm.
And I think maybe that's why it's highlighted more with you as opposed to other people, because I know that I'm not showing up for you in the same way that you would show up for me if I was going through it.
Again to sort of allow your fears here.
I feel like what you've just done is the perfect thing to do in this scenario, just so you can know in this instance, so you can put your mind at rest.
Like, I haven't felt Ryan's not showing up.
I just have, it was, it felt like I really noticed you not being in my life because you're overseas.
I really felt that.
I even remember thinking to myself God, I wish Ryan was like turning up here over the couple months you were away.
I was like I wish Ryan was here so much, but you're overseas so physically you can't be here.
So yeah um yeah, it's like yeah, and and by asking that question, how can i show up for you?
I think the next time you think about someone who you think is doing it tough, maybe just even just saying that well, they'll probably say there's not much you can do or here's what you can do, and then Like I feel like that's all you have to do to then work out if you should be stressed or not about it.
Well, even like to be honest, hearing you say it helps if I do something funny that will make you feel good, because I have thought that.
I have thought like oh, maybe I'll send you guys a video, because often, like in the past, I've sent like funny videos to try and like.
If I know it's been a hard whatever.
But-
Then I get in my head and think like oh, but is that?
Am I?
Just by sending like a silly video?
Am I completely missing the tone here?
Oh, right.
You know, is it like, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
It's like if people are really going through it and someone sends like a silly video, it's like mate, you have no idea what the fuck's going on right now, and like that's like a funny moustache and stuff, but no mate, and I sort of get worried that that would be the response.
I know the place it's coming from, so it'll never.
Yeah okay, I can think about the worst in the worst of it all this year.
If you'd sent me with a funny moustache, it would have been great.
Okay, I've got a few good moustaches and a few wigs.
I got wigs.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
The kids love wigs.
Good to know.
Yeah.
Still?
Yeah.
Still.
No, I thank you for saying that.
Even that, just hearing that you've worried about that means a lot.
And that is, that's amazing.
And it makes me so happy we have this podcast because we wouldn't say this.
Well, even as I was thinking about it, when I saw the card, and I thought about it because I was like oh, this is silly to bring this up to you like now, when I should just talk to you about it in real life.
But anyway, whatever.
Either way.
No.
Yeah, not to – I don't want to make this about me because it's your thing.
I'd love you to make it about you right now.
But I feel pretty similar, I think, to what Ryan feels.
Yeah, well, I have wondered – no, I was joking.
You, on the other hand, have really dropped the fucking ball.
This is a separate conversation.
Actually, the mic's off.
So it's good to know I'm off the hook.
No, I think... You know when we had Hamish McLaughlin on and he talked about Gil... His brother.
His brother.
So when Hamish McLaughlin was on and he told a story about his daughter being really sick and he said how his brother dropped like I don't know if I dropped everything, but made a commitment.
He was there every morning to help give her the medicine she needed and just say you leave, I'm doing this.
And, to be clear, we're not talking in your case.
We're not talking about a sick child or anything like that.
But I see that kind of act and I often think, why aren't I more like that to you?
Like, why don't I just insist a bit more?
No, I'm coming around.
I'm doing this.
Like, that feels like what a brother should do.
But for some reason, I don't do it.
Maybe it's because I've got two young kids myself and life's incredibly busy, but...
I could easily not.
Yeah, I think I should.
I don't know if it's an inbuilt thing of like being the younger brother that I've always had these assumed roles of like you've always looked out for me so much, and maybe I'm kind of used to that and then switching that role when you need help I'm not very good at.
But I think of that story a lot and think why aren't I doing more of that?
So, sorry.
Yeah.
No, I mean again, that's a lovely thing to say, but like if we were in Hamish McLaughlin's situation medically, I have no doubt you would turn up and do that.
Like I have absolutely no doubt in my mind.
Again, I've never thought, where's Josh?
Why isn't Josh helping?
I know exactly where you are and you're fighting your own battles.
I'm going to say that as a turn of phrase, not like, but you're in it yourself with your own kids.
So I know that's why.
I know you're not at the pub just like...
Smashing tins.
Yeah, hunting on the sports.
I know how busy you are with family and with work.
So like I don't, I've never once thought where's Josh.
But it's lovely to hear you say that.
It really is.
Yeah, yeah.
I wish there was more I could do, because I guess I think one of the things that's tricky is that it's like in the case of like, In some cases it's clear as you just sort of alluded to in some cases it's clear what the action is to do.
But I think when and this is tricky to talk about because I don't want to give away specifics, but when it feels like there's just been a lot of things this year that have all piled and there's like each of them are different and nuanced and it's hard to know exactly what to do.
Yeah.
To ask the same question that Ryan asked before, like is there a way that I can show up for you that is meaningful to you and do it more often?
Thank you.
Well, on the weekend you helped us with our main struggles like weekends can be tough and you took one of our kids not forever, just for the I did actually take one of your kids forever, so that is pretty.
I guess I could do that.
No, but like you took one of our kids for the afternoon and that helped us so much.
So just like that's, and the opportunity was there because we'd been hanging out.
So it was easy to do it.
But I don't again.
I've never sat there wondering when you're going to come and take one of our kids.
So no, I really appreciate that.
Okay.
Well, we'll do it more.
I can't promise that.
I think it's a bigger lift for you to take a job than me.
Yeah, maybe.
Well, anyway, that's really all I had to say.
But it is really actually helpful to know that just like a funny video could be good, because I do like making them.
And I love getting them.
I'll do them more.
I'll do them more.
Thank you.
Great.
I'll let the kids know that videos are incoming.
Yeah.
They will love it.
Okay, good.
They watch them over and over and over again.
Okay, great.
I'll put some more layers in it then.
I have more of them on YouTube, so you get a bit of a view counter going.
Yeah, chuck some ads on it too.
Yeah, yeah.
How many times have I watched you?
I could do quite well from this.
Okay.
Well, great.
Yeah.
I love this podcast.
I love that I can do that.
Yeah.
Thank you both.
That's lovely.
Really appreciate it.
Love you guys.
I'm in love with you.
All right.
Well, should we take a?
Well, the original plan was for us all to do one now, but I reckon if we do that, it'll probably be an extremely long ep.
So maybe we should... Take a break.
Take a break.
And then we'll each take a card.
But we might split this episode up and we'll release maybe one on Wednesday, one on Friday or something.
Oh, nice.
This week.
Yeah.
So each episode, one of us picks a card.
Love that.
Awesome.
All right.
We'll come back in a few minutes and we'll come back in a few days for people listening.
Yeah.
See you guys.
Have a good sleep the next couple of days.
Enjoyed this week's episode but want a little more?
Then you might want to know that we have a brand new show called A Little More Imperfects.
Over on Patreon.
For a little bit of money, you'll get access to bonus episodes with the three of us every fortnight, early access to live events, plus other things that we haven't thought of yet, but when we do think of them, you'll get them.
Visit patreon.com forward slash the imperfects.
The Imperfix is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment.
The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you're struggling, please see a healthcare professional or call Lifeline on 13 11, 14.
