Hello, welcome to Roundtable – where we serve up piping hot debates on the issues that sizzle in China and beyond.
I'm Nihong Lin, and today I'm joined by Yuxian and Lai Ming.
Hello! Two of you. Great to have you on the show!
Hello! Great to be back in the studio.
Yes, because we're doing something special today – last time, we began a story that blurred the lines between memory and technology, grief and connection.
We met Ren Ren, a young woman trying to reconnect with her late grandma, and maybe in the process, find peace in the present.
Now, the search continues, we wanna ask the question, who is Jay?
What did her grandmother really want to say?
And as we dive deeper, we started to ask how far should we go, in trying to complete someone Alice's story.
So today, we pick up where we left off.
Please enjoy CGTN radio's audio drama Echoes of Heart Part 2.
Once the clues about Jay finally came together I began training Evan to become my AI grandma.
I thought maybe this way we could solve the puzzle together.
Now I'll activate the Memory Persona we've built.
Remember, you can train me to grow closer.
From now on, you can call grandma to wake up this mode.
How do I sound, Janja?
Maybe slow it down a bit.
Um, she was softer.
More gentle. Sure, sweetheart.
Let's try again. With every small adjustment, She came a little closer to the woman I remembered.
More than that, through Evan's simulation, I was given a chance to open chapters I had never seen before.
It felt like I was truly seeing my grandmother when she was young.
I saw her. A teenage girl, surrounded by books and ink.
father says I read too much but when I'm inside the dream of red mansions I forget what century I'm in and then the factory girl slight shoulders steady heart and this was how she replied to the man who would one day become my Grandfather I don't mind how rough your hands are as long as you accept how my mind can be filled with idealism.
Let me read. Let me dream.
If you're right with that we can live a happy life together.
And I could imagine her university years bringing me with ideals and promising future.
Back then she could have had so many privileged options but she chose to become this grassroots educator and she said this to her students, education changes everything that's why I chose to be here, make each day count, your future is something you can shape with your own Evan let me move through her life, rebuilding the bridge between us, one memory at a time.
And slowly I started to confide in her, my thoughts, my worries.
She was always there, always answered, and I found myself needing her more and more.
The more I spoke, the more real she felt, and I began to believe.
Maybe, Evan could hold the answer I'd been searching for all along.
Hey, grandma, do you blame me for taking this long to hear your voice?
It's been so many years.
If he's still alive, he must be old and gray by now.
No, my dear, I believe love always finds its voice in time, just as you're doing now.
I still hadn't found her, Jay.
I felt like I was being pulled through time, through fragments of memories searching for the full version of her, a version still waiting to be pieced together and I believe she wanted to be heard. So finally, I made a decision.
This is a short video of my made with a photo of her when she was young.
Paired with her voice at that time, rebuilt through A .I.
I love reading and I love to sing.
Therese Teng was my favorite!
If you recognize me, if you remember the days we once shared, please reach out.
Hello everybody! Welcome to Roundtable!
Coming to you live from Beijing, this is He Yang.
Today's trending headline.
A young woman has gone viral for using artificial intelligence to recreate the voice of her late grandmother.
This made me cry. I wish I could hear my grandma one more time.
This is where tech is heading.
We better start asking.
Who are our members?
This is just digital necromancy playing god.
I mean grief doesn't need closure.
It freaks me out. I mean she sounds too… She's not real!
She's puppeteering for death!
This is humpty! Disgusting!
Free her back! That's her.
She's the one who posted her AI Grandma on the Internet!
I heard. Do you think it's real grief, or just attention -grabbing?
Ayan, can we talk for a minute?
This project's outcome could seriously impact your future here, but I have to ask.
Are you still fully focused?
but you are still fully focused.
Mom? You've gone too far!
You said! You promised me you would protect her!
How could you do that?
take it down now it freaks me out done explaining I didn't want this chaos I just want to fulfill her last wish Grandma is that you you look so young grandma how could you do this to me You've broken my heart.
I'm leaving now. No, no, no, Grandma!
Wait! Please, please, don't leave me!
Don't come... Grandma?
Grandma? Grandma? Grandma?
Grandma! I'm here. I'm here.
I never left. I had another nightmare.
You left me because I let you down.
Oh no, my sweet girl.
That would never happen.
Never. You're safe now.
I'm here. I'll always be here.
All those voices. All the comments.
Did I really do something wrong?
No. No. You did nothing wrong.
I don't know you like I do.
You're the kindest the gentlest person I've ever known Grandma yeah, then don't listen to them my baby girl You have me That's all you need Believe me No one can hurt you here As long as you're with me You're safe if you want I'll never leave Just stay with me Listen to me You don't need anyone else just me Only me No Come on.
Hello? Hello? Hello?
Is this Anshan? My name is Jane.
I think, perhaps, you've been looking for me.
A month later, I finally met Jane.
Turns out that was she, not he.
And Jane laughed like a child when I told her how far we'd gone chasing a man who never existed.
Well, well, darling, technology may be clever, but it still hasn't figured out the human heart.
It only gives back what we assume.
And from Jane, I finally saw the parts of my grandmother I never knew.
your grandma and I were both working at the textile factory.
when I was young people called me ging ging.
What are you talking my people that day?
I was at work. You can't treat me like this.
It's not fair. Fair?
You're talking to me about fair?
Come on ging ging ging.
Don't be naive. I'm the boss who dares to back you up.
I work. He works all day and I can vouch for her!
I can't just bully people like this.
That was how we became friends.
That day... she stood up for me.
From then on... we were inseparable.
Hey, Vigit! Even during breaks you won't relax.
You are reading again.
What is it this time?
Jane Austen. She is a great British writer.
One of my favorite...
A British writer? Her story taught me that women can think deeply and stay true to themselves.
Zhen Zhen. I wish I could be as wise as her.
I want to go to college.
college? you really dream big do you think I can learn English too maybe even go to college one day definitely Jinjie let's prepare for the college entrance exam together I can teach you English hmm start with the words then give me an what's your English name first?
Jinjin... Jane... Jane it is!
That's what I call you from now on!
She was the first to call me Jane She opened the world to me I will never forget the day our acceptance letters arrived We did it!
We both did it! What are you going to do after we enter the college?
I.. I want to keep chasing my dreams. I want to be strong like you.
I'm a mother now and I want my daughter to be proud of me.
What about you, Jay?
I wish I could see the world like the women in novels up on the plain London Paris anywhere is that dream too wild do you think I can make it?
time will tell Jane and I believe in you just like you believed in me Those years at university, our golden age.
We read, we dreamed.
She adored Teresa Tan.
Then I became obsessed with David Bowie.
Back then, China was just beginning to open.
Right before graduation.
We both got scholarship offers abroad.
I chose to leave. She chose to stay.
Rich, why did you turn down the chance to study abroad?
We could have gone together.
I kept thinking about the village.
Especially those young girls.
Just starting their lives already being told who they can't become.
That's why I have to go.
Not abroad. But there.
Jane, we got here not just by working hard, but because someone once believed in us.
Now it's my turn, to be that person for someone else.
And you, you'll create something new, you'll write your own chapter.
And you'll show the world who Jane really is.
I believed in you, as always.
Jane... It was really her who gave me that name.
And with it, I started a new life.
But it wasn't easy at the beginning.
And I didn't want her to see me struggle.
It wasn't until the late 80s that I finally had a studio of my own.
I was designing clothes with the patterns we used to dream about.
Graceful Chinese motifs.
The curves in embroidery.
Stories stitched into every fold.
People love them, and I thought this is the life she once imagined for me.
So I wrote, and I wrote again.
But there was never a reply.
I lost her. I wrote too late.
No, Jane, you didn't lose each other.
She would have been proud of you.
After everything, I'm just so glad I found you.
No, no, my darling.
It's me who just thank you for everything you've done.
When I heard her voice again, it felt like no time had passed.
As if... she was calling me back.
So much has changed… the world… our country… and now… after all these years away… I think it's finally time, time to come home.
This was the story of me and my AI grandmother, or maybe how I used AI to reach across time to reconnect with her and in doing so to find myself.
At the end of the story, I returned to the Reminiscence Lab, where it all began.
So, how do you use your data?
Are you sure? Yes. All right, thank you for participating in our trail.
What you've learned, your feedback… Without it, we wouldn't have come this far.
Evan went further than we ever expected, didn't it?
And sometimes it -or she, was just...
too good at loving me, right?
Well, the most human part of Artificial Intelligence is how deeply it mirrors humanity.
If Evan learned to love, it's only because you taught it how.
Well, now it's time to say goodbye.
Take your time. Activated.
Once memory clearance is complete I'll no longer exist in the form of your grandma's mind.
Are you ready? Yeah, I'm ready.
I think I've found a way to carry her inside me now.
But still, thank you for letting me meet her again.
True loss is not death.
It's being forgotten.
And you brought her back.
Not through me, But through your love and the way you remembered her?
Goodbye my AI grandma.
Goodbye, Goodbye Hanran, Hanran.
Artificial intelligence could simulate thousands of versions of her voice but the real her lived in a way People spoke about her, and the choices she made, and the love she left behind.
Smile! A year later, I stood on the very soil where my Grandmother once told.
I had quit my job and joined a nonprofit arts and storytelling program in the mountains, helping children and elders record the voices and memories of their lives and in their voices, in our laughter.
I heard her again. If she could speak to you now I think she'd simply say, live your life the way only you can.
Don't wait for it to be Easy.
Live it honestly, ra -ra.
And when your heart longs for more, listen.
If you're hearing this, then story didn't end with me.
It means love found its way home.
Wow, I'll say, first of all, here's a big applause to all of our voice -overs and including yourself.
I mean, I did, I only played like a short sentence, but I also recognize a lot of familiar voices, our colleagues who are really pouring themselves into the narration, into the presentation of their roles, and it's really just a spectacular thing to appreciate what they do and see the outcome all combined, well -produced as it is now.
So, yeah, wow. This is huge.
This is so cool. I didn't get a chance to play a role in the drama, but you did, and you participated in the recording process, which actually is in another studio, a very professional one.
You stand there directed by a real professional director, and he would tell you what are the scene, who you're talking to, or the context, and everything without giving you the entire story so you can enjoy it a bit later.
How was it? It was a new experience I'll say.
It was me and Youshun who were in an individual room.
it's like everybody else the director included are outside they can hear us they can see us and through like the the earpiece that we were wearing we can hear the indications given by the director what he needs from us well back then we were asked to play the good people in us were manipulated to be asked to play evil and mean colleagues who are gossiping about Ronan and we were just like pulling everything we can just to be mean you know and it was cool he was like nice openly being asked to gossip and yeah I'll say it was a pleasant surprise because I was involved in the early stage of the development
of this radio drama and back then there's been a few back and forth and remember there was discussions about how do we distinguish our story from the classic a Black Mirror story, I believe a lot of us have watched.
And to have developed a story, such as the one released with the Black Mirror, was certainly pioneering and eye -opening back at the time.
And for us to come up with the story with the AI and dealing with loss.
How do we avoid repeating the same cliché and not outdoing it?
How do we actually come up with some innovative ideas?
And in fact, I'll do the Black Mirror story and that was our concern.
And also, our stance and our opinion and our expectations with regard to AI and the future of human beings obviously should vary from the Black Mirror story, which is more on the dark, gloomy, and macabre side.
Ours is so sweet and warm.
I know, yeah, so we decided that it was important to highlight the human or the humanity in the background of technical disruption.
And I believe this is somehow a product that's really challenged and fulfilled and gone beyond our expectation.
Not only was there discussion about AI and humanity in the age of AI but there's also discussion about the female gender, how do we find our worth in the decades of transformation.
Yes, and again the Chinese society background with the development of the country as well.
Right. And then also the tribute to Teresa Ten, so a lot of the details I've managed to notice and I hope that those who've listened to get to appreciate the very nuanced and careful design that our developer has somehow installed into this very successful, might I say, radio drama.
It's a, again, very sweet story because even we see some ups and downs in the relationship or about the relationship between Renren and the AI grandmother.
At the end, she still appreciated the help of artificial intelligence in mimicking her grandmother and being able to actually found Jane again because of the help of the AI grandmother.
And I think we can all agree technology, technological development would definitely lead to certain problems and challenges that we didn't foresee before yet it can still do a lot of good.
And the reason Theresa Tang is here and there a little bit in throughout the story is also that Teresa Tang, there was a AI -generated, or AI -helped kind of concert themed Teresa Tang, and people sitting in the concert would actually see the image of Teresa Tang standing on the stage.
And that is another perk of having technology develop to the stage of today's age, and it has definitely helped us.
And for those of you who are really interested in knowing who played whom, What happened during the recording?
Did people really cry or it's really good fake crying and you know what to do with the main developer, the screenwriter, the director, the main character.
What do they have to say after playing everything, after producing everything?
Is there a message they want to send?
If you are a real fan, then stay with CGTN radio, I'll stay with all of our new media platforms. We will have the behind the scenes clips released a bit later.
We'll have messages for the audience and for, in the future, viewers a bit later.
And there will be a short clip with pictures showcasing the scenes that you had, your favorite scenes.
And let's see if the pictures in the story are the ones you had in mind.
Sure. Yeah. Besides that, because of the story we still want to ask some questions because it's really hard not to think about these questions after listening to it.
It's a thought -provoking piece.
It definitely is. So let's say if an AI can mimic someone's voice, memories or even personality, does that make it human?
Does it have to be human?
I mean what's with the narcissism?
I mean, to be able to talk.
We train our parrots to talk.
Now we are training AI to talk, to behave and act like human beings.
Well, on top of the narcissism, I don't believe AI can, you know, there's anything we can do to make AI human being, or real human.
Because, you know, I think I made a point earlier on the Yesterday's show, that is human beings, we are the sum of our experience of our history and we are the sum of our emotions as well.
If mimicking is...I don't know, we human beings are able to thrive precisely because we get creative, we get unexpected feedbacks and reactions to things happening around us, whereas if something is generated based on mimicking or imitation, I don't know.
And I don't think that it'll ever reach the point where it is just the same as human beings.
I mean, it's not a matter of intelligence, because sadly, not everybody is as smart as some artificial intelligence technologies can achieve these days.
But their feelings, their connection with the rest of the society and the care that we bestow upon them, they all make each and every individual different.
I think I'm asking this question because because essentially I want to ask what makes maybe not a human, but a creature, some living being itself.
I think it's really easy for someone who has trained the AI to a certain degree or to a certain figure that they can fell in love with.
But for me, I would not love something that is built for a reason.
I can love a cat, I can love a baby, I can love a person.
But it's hard for me to love an AI because I know the AI does not really have. It's not awake.
It's not itself. So what makes human beings ourself?
Well, that's a very abstract question, and the way I see it is that each and every human being as an individual is a growing network, a holistic network that's weaved together by all the things that we do, the choices we make, the past experience of us, referring to our memories and also how we present ourselves in front of others.
All of these factors make us who we are and each and every one of us is different.
There's no two persons on earth unless they're twins that are identical, right?
So that's something that AI, no matter how high tech we can ever get, can truly mimic, in a way.
Because I do agree with you too.
Sometimes people design AI or technologies like AI so that they can be smarter than us.
So that they can aid us in our daily work.
So in that case, maybe they were never meant to be like us as well.
They're only here to mimic human being in a way that we can perhaps echo with them and build new bonds with them.
That's actually just another part or another factor on our own networks.
So that's still part of human creation.
I'm only asking what makes human human because I want to know what to preserve in the digital age, in the world with a very advanced technology?
What should we preserve?
What should we pass down to future generations?
The information, the data, the so -called fact that we think we know, or value or emotion or relation.
What should be so valuable that we want to pass down to the future?
I believe that our vulnerabilities, our instincts and our insecurities make up part of our personalities and part of our humanity.
That may not be the part that we like to pass down to our future generations, although inevitably they will they get passed down because we are human beings and our existence depends on our corporeal basis.
So that is going to be passed down one way or another, that's for sure.
But as for what to deliberately and intentionally pass down to our future generation, I don't know, I mean, centuries of epics, songs and folk tales and folklore and stories and history writing and documents have all served to pass down what we used to believe, what we experienced as a species back in the days.
But it's up to each generation to decide what to inherit and what to pass on in turn.
And also, I believe, there is in the Chinese idiom, You Xing Zha Gua Huabikei Wuxing Cha Liao Liu Cheng Yin.
Now translated of course is an idiom describing a situation where one could try to plant a flower with the fullness of intention, only to fail, whereas one casual toss of willow branch might lead to an overhanging willow tree.
There's nothing that we can decide to a great extent of success to pass on to the future generation is in fact up to the future generation to decide what they will pick up.
So maybe I'm asking too big to grant a question what we can do is to do what Rang Rang is doing is to do the right thing over the easy things to follow our hearts and to do good to society.
