Ted Audio Collective.
Hello everyone. You're listening to After Hours.
I'm Felix. I'm Mihir.
And I'm Sarah from Bloomberg.
Hey, Sarah. I don't know if you guys caught this, but right before you all came in, the sound engineer, Peter Linane, and I were playing Name That Tune.
Ooh, okay. Let me guess.
It was tunes from the 60s or 70s?
You got it. I went around a little bit.
I found a sweet song.
I played the first note of Angie by the Rolling Stones.
And he knew. The first note.
And he got it. That's an easy one.
Oh my God. Wow. Anyway, Name That Tune is a great game.
But with a sound engineer like Peter, it's really fun.
It's really hard. So we brought just one topic today.
We will talk about startups.
Yes. I'm so excited to hear.
And in particular, ones that we kind of think of as being really interesting and fun all across the spectrum.
Where do you find out about startups, Felix?
TechCrunch is one of my sources where I often find an interesting angle, an interesting company that I hadn't heard about.
Interesting. So I look a little bit at Crunchbase.
Yeah. And then I also ask around.
So I have friends in the Boston area who is sort of in the scene.
Quote, I'm doing the air quotes, my fingers, I'm sorry.
And I get recommendations from them.
And then universities are great incubators of startups.
So one of the startups I have actually has a history with the Harvard iLab right here on campus.
Oh, very good. One of the ideas I stumbled upon, but I'm not going to be discussing today, is very expensive salt.
Oh. I was like, who thought this was a good idea?
But it apparently is working.
So you never know. It's apparently working.
You never know. All right.
I'm so excited to hear everything that you guys have.
Let's do it. So, me here.
Yeah. What did you bring?
So as always, I have a couple.
But I'm going to begin with jackfruit.
Oh, okay. So jackfruit is a very abundant fruit tree in India and throughout Southeast Asia.
It is very rich in protein and fiber.
And this young entrepreneur, Annie Ryu, has started Jack & Annie's.
And Jack is jackfruit and Annie is Annie.
And it is jackfruit made into a meat substitute.
And she is such a serious person and so thoughtful about this.
And I think the thing I love about it is, a, the product is fantastic because jackfruit turns out to have a texture and a taste that you can really make into a meat substitute in a good way.
Second, she's really walking the walk.
And she's giving a lot back to the farmers in India, particularly in Kerala.
And she found out about this by going to Kerala and finding the jackfruit.
She was in med school and she's just kept going with it.
It's available in 1 ,500 stores.
And I love the sustainability of it.
I love the mission driven nature, what she's doing because she's giving so much income back.
And then it's a great brand and it's a great product.
So I love these food startups.
And I love the idea of one that is doing meat substitutes in a good, thoughtful way.
And with a product jackfruit that many people haven't even heard of.
Yeah. Is jackfruit in abundant supply?
It is. It almost grows all over the place.
For folks who don't know it, it's a tree that grows quite wildly.
But the fruit is enormous, quite pungent, and is eaten both raw and cooked in India.
But she's processing it and making it into a meat substitute.
She started in Whole Foods, kind of classic.
She's in Target. She's really just pounding it out.
Just raised 20 plus million dollars.
So really fun story.
That's awesome. And do you think that that is something that gives Beyond Meat a run for its money?
Or are people buying them all?
Well, so I don't know.
I think that's a good question.
I happen to like her story and I like the product.
I think ultimately this is an area, especially with meat substitutes, where people have strong views about texture and taste.
Remember the episode we did about Beyond Meat?
Yes. And we identified two really critical questions.
One was the supply of the ingredients.
Exactly. Which was not abundant.
And then the other issue was salt.
And how healthy it is in reality.
Because most of the ingredients don't have that much taste.
And so you really have to add a lot of salt, which of course defeats the purpose of eating healthier.
Yeah, exactly. So that's my first pick.
What did you bring, Sarah?
Well, I think the first one I'd like to share is a company called Spark Charge.
Have you guys heard of it?
No. Tell us. So this was founded by CEO Josh Aviv.
And it is a portable electric vehicle charger.
So they are basically trying to be like the door dash of electric car charging.
So you could be here at campus.
You could be at your house.
You could be at the dentist.
And you realize your EV needs a charge.
And you could call up on the app and order someone to come and just charge your car for you.
So it's a service. It's not the product.
It's not the product.
They basically have this little portable charger.
They wheel it up to your car.
And right now, it's about an hour to get to like an 80 % charge.
But they're working on that.
And if you think that you might be like teaching a class or, you know, getting a filling when this is happening, then actually kind of makes sense.
Because the idea is that you don't have to plan your day or plan your route around where the chargers are that they can come to you.
Oh, that's nice. And is the idea that some sort of a subscription service, a little bit like AAA?
I know. If I'm in trouble, I can rely on them.
Exactly. So the app is, I think, $25 a month.
And then there's an additional small charge of like $6 to $10, I think, for each charge that you would then get.
I love this business model.
AAA is kind of more emergent.
This could be a regular usage.
Totally. I was looking at an interview with the CEO, and he pointed out that I think it's only 3 % of apartment complexes in the U .S.
have chargers. So actually, their biggest customer base is people who are at home and just don't have a charger installed.
Which makes it less time critical also.
Yeah, exactly. And one of the things I think that's kind of cool about it is that the infrastructure of charging these cars is the thing that's holding us back right now.
Yeah. And we have this huge infrastructure of gas stations to power old -style cars.
And we don't really have a charging network yet for electric cars.
And I think this is a cool way to bridge us into a future where there's more EVs.
So I'm excited about this as a kind of way to get to a more electric future.
Just on batteries, Sarah, I recently visited a company that's fascinating.
They are interested in battery recycling.
So this is not an issue now, but it will become an issue when batteries start to live the life.
There are shortages of some of the underlying elements, and so they are a shredder.
So they shred batteries, and car batteries, and they take the waste from the battery factories and they shred and repurpose all the chemicals.
And it's just a fascinating technology, because we're going to need so much of this and we're going to need to know what to do with those batteries.
So it's a kind of a play for like seven or ten years from now.
That's cool. Maybe we should do an episode on batteries people.
Maybe you should have a battery -related podcast.
Just talk about batteries.
Just batteries. Batteries all day long.
That would be a hit, I'm sure.
I do find it interesting and inspiring to hear all the different innovative companies coming out.
And I think during the pandemic there was a huge number of new companies registered.
I remember a conversation during the pandemic where Felix made a point to say, and this was during the dark days, as I recall it Felix, that these dark days are often accompanied by entrepreneurial surges.
I think you referenced 9 -11.
Yeah, you had referenced that.
And so maybe what we're starting to see is exactly that.
On the flip side, when I look through ideas of startups, there's also a lot of sameness.
Very similar ideas that are hard to distinguish.
So to your point, I'm scrolling through Crunchbase and I'm seeing this thing's AI, this thing's a robot, this thing's an NFT, this thing is blockchain, and that's cannabis.
So I'm combining those.
It's sort of a blur in my mind.
So yes, there's a lot of sameness.
I'd be interested in the cannabis blockchain kind of idea.
But it's an interesting question, which is that sameness, in a way, it's the worst mistake you can make as an entrepreneur, right?
I mean it is of the moment, so maybe the incentives are, well, if I do the cannabis blockchain thing, like everyone's going to fund me.
But it also just contradicts lots of business logic of like what are you supposed to be doing with your life and your time and your energy and differentiation and solving problems.
And I agree with you, Sarah, though, that so much of it feels like me too, stuff.
But I think that's the incentives of the moment.
It's not the deep thinking about what's the problem we're trying to solve.
That's super interesting.
Felix, what do you have?
My company is Audius, which is a music streaming service.
It's really interesting because it's the first music streaming service that is based on blockchain and supported by cryptocurrency.
And so the idea is let's create one of these organizations that is completely decentralized, not controlled by anyone, where we use Ethereum and then the ability to put smart contracts on top of the blockchain to allow artists to monetize their music every which way they want to do.
And there's so many interesting things about it.
So, for instance, the key three services that they need is a content ledger so that you know what's been uploaded in the past.
They need discovery nodes so that if you search for a particular piece of music that you can easily find it.
And then they need content nodes if you actually want to stream something.
You can type it in the search engine and you find the music.
All of this is provided by members of the community.
And it's supported by cryptocurrency.
For every type of service that you provide, you earn cryptocurrency.
So the user, it feels like it might feel a little bit like Spotify, but for the artist, I could tailor my royalty streams, I could tailor what songs I wanted to put on there.
You could have a fan club.
You could decide you need to pay to be a member of the fan club.
You need to pay per stream.
Any sort of monetization arrangement is possible.
But it's also really important because the community can decide what the rules are.
The rules of the platform are up for grabs.
And when they vote, they vote according to how much cryptocurrency do you own at this moment in time.
It's one of these new organizations that isn't governed by anyone.
Should I think of it as a cooperative or is that too old -fashioned?
The mechanism feels a little similar, except the stake that you have is directly reflected in how much did you do for the network?
Did you give a lot of computing power?
Did you host one of these nodes and so on and so on?
That sounds like an awful lot of work to listen to music.
I mean, it sounds great for the artist, but as a listener, when you look at all the revenue streams from Spotify, about 10 percent of the overall revenue goes to artists.
And if you compare that, say, with sports, in sports, it's about 50 percent of the NFL revenue that goes to the players.
And the question is, why is it that artists get so little?
And the rhetoric is around cutting out the middleman, making things more efficient, and so on.
And as much as I love the idea, I think it solves a problem that actually has nothing to do with decentralization.
So I find it interesting in the context of so many companies now are these decentralized organizations that aren't controlled by anyone.
But at the heart here, the issue is just the importance of labels.
Labels are the ones that make most of the money.
And the reason is that labels put artists on the map.
They make sure that you and I know about an artist.
And so decentralization, if anything, to your earlier points, actually makes things worse, in that imagine a world in which every artist has a different contractual arrangement.
That is, like, so much transactions cost.
But people are in love with this decentralization idea.
I mean, Katy Perry and others have invested in Audius, but all it means is that the really big artists that make a lot of money, they're never really going to be an audience.
Right, exactly. And everyone who makes no money is going to be an audience.
And yes, the decentralization idea is a really beautiful idea, but it's besides the point in an industry where one party has market power because they do something for artists that turns out to be really valuable, namely marketing, making them visible, distributing their songs.
By the way, just to be clear, to sign up as a user, I have to buy the crypto.
You can buy the crypto if you're interested in any one of these additional services, but you can go on it right now.
And just get it. You can stream music.
There's technical issues.
The streaming doesn't work fine as well as you can imagine.
It's like, yeah, it's a small detail.
But I think it's a prototype of an organization in search of a problem where decentralization really makes sense and can really be powerful.
Oh, that is great. That's really interesting.
So I have one that I think is kind of of the moment in a different way, Felix, which is so rents, as you may know, are going through the roof.
And alongside that, of course, comes security deposits.
Now, if you have ever paid a security deposit, you know it is this one -time payment you make to a landlord.
It's upfront and it's a month's rent, typically.
So imagine what's happening today where rents are going through the roof and you're supposed to put down first and last and a security deposit.
So along comes lease lock.
What is lease lock?
Well, if you think about what a security deposit is, it's an insurance contract.
So this is a player in a very specialized insurance market, which I love these kind of insurance tech companies, where they take one narrow vertical and they blow it out.
Really think about it.
Really? So what is this underneath it all?
It's an insurance contract.
So here's what we're going to do.
We're going to take instead of you paying a one -time, one -month rental fee that you get back when you leave and everything's okay, we're going to make it into a stream.
So let's say, for example, you have a $1 ,000 monthly rent.
Instead of depositing a $1 ,000, you'll pay $20 a month, and it is effectively a premium.
And you will not get anything back, for example, at the end of the year because it is an insurance premium.
So what I like about this is that I think Felix just took the middleman out and you just put the middleman back in.
Well, that's right.
I'm guessing here. But does it reflect a very low probability that I actually don't get my security deposit back?
In fact, Felix, they've run into a lot of trouble because a lot of people view this idea and they're like, well, wait, don't I get my money back with the $20 a month?
Yeah, that's right.
And they're like, no, it's insurance.
To me, much would depend on is it really that insurance contract and it reflects, you know, I'm going to be there for two years and I'm getting it back with 99 % probability.
And so I know what the implied cost is of forgoing the $1 ,000.
Or is it more, boy, oh boy, I'm really stretched.
I have to pay the first month and the last month and now the security deposit on top and I'm not that liquid?
And essentially, it's a super, super high interest rate on a loan.
Yeah, it's a bundled loan, but you are getting insurance because you are not liable at the end of the day for the damage.
Yeah. Is it potentially predatory lending?
Maybe, but there is an insurance component in there for sure.
Yeah, but we could probably do the math.
We could figure out how close are we to predatory lending?
It also seems like it may solve a pain point for some landlords who don't want to be keeping track of what each person has paid them and they're supposed to be holding it in escrow accounts.
There's like escrow accounts and there's these other solutions like surety bonds that are kind of weird.
And so it's very user friendly kind of way to solve that problem.
That's cool. I love these nitty gritty in the middle of some weird finance transaction, somebody solving some problem.
And I think they have like some window on that.
Sarah, what do you have?
Okay. So my next startup is a nonprofit and it's actually a product.
So we're getting out of the land of apps and services and insurance.
I love it. Into the physical world.
So this one actually had a period of time at the Harvard Business School iLab.
It's the giving cradle is the product and the nonprofit it supports is the Baracat Bundle.
It was founded by Karima Ladani and the cradle just came out I think in 2020 even though the organization had been around for a few years before that.
But here's why I think it's really cool.
It's a cradle that retails in North America for $150 and it's a buy one, give one model.
So if I buy a cradle here for my baby, the organization sends another cradle to South Asia.
Along with a bundle of health supplies and education materials.
And the only catch on the other side is that the woman has to give birth in a health center of some official kind, not at home.
So the goal is to help reduce the huge number.
I think 1 .5 million infant deaths and 75 ,000 maternal deaths that occur each year in South Asia.
80 % of those would be preventable through very simple interventions.
So I love it. The cradle is really cool looking.
So did you get one?
I did not get one. I really wish that I had known about it when my daughter was smaller.
Yeah. She's too big now.
But it's beautiful.
It's made of bamboo which is sustainable and they did all this interesting product research.
It has a mosquito net which I definitely could have used in where I live in Massachusetts.
So it's a really nice product and I like that they're extending this buy one, give one model that you see with like Tom's and where we partner.
But they're doing it in a way that is providing this extra incentive effect which is to get women into hospitals, which is fantastic.
And the other thing is, you know, the U .S.
has a really high maternal mortality rate.
So I'm sort of really interested in anyone who's trying to solve that problem anywhere in the world and I think it's a really cool cradle.
The other thing I love about it is you make that decision at the moment when you choose a product that is really important to you, you really care about it and you learn a lot, you do a ton of research and then you think this is exactly the right thing and it's personally important to me and then to
extend that motivation to someone else is actually a really beautiful idea.
I love that. Yes, I think that you've really hit the nail on the head of something which is that when I was doing a lot of this research, I spent an embarrassingly long amount of time looking at the specs.
Yes, I can imagine.
I literally put 40 hours of research into the stroller and the car seat.
So when you find something that you really like, of course you would want to give one to someone else.
That is great. I will just say the flip of it is that when we had our third child, by that time you're not thinking about any of this.
You're an autopilot.
So Felix, what do you have?
I also have a startup that is off the moment, except it's cold -blooded capitalist, which sounds a little bit like a letdown after your story.
Just like you, Felix.
Well, can't help it.
So the company is called Rocked, R -O -K -T.
What they're looking at is what is the ideal environment for a consumer right after you made an online purchase.
So in some sense it's super close to what you were just talking about, except their intuition, their questions are of course, should we then show you a loyalty program?
Should we show you our credit card?
Should we show you a picture?
Should we have rational language that you bought exactly the right thing?
Should we show emotional language that somehow you did maybe something for the planet?
And what's really remarkable about the company is that these little interventions, it's one of these online miracles that frankly I never really quite understand.
But if you look at the uplift in sales, just truly remarkable.
These little things matter much more dramatically than you think.
So for a retailer, for example, Rocket will contract with a retailer to design their customer experience and to make it as effective as possible.
And at this very special moment right after you clicked and it says transaction completed.
I just love the attention to detail, in part because it reminds me a little bit of this other statistic that I've always found amazing about e -commerce.
80 % of the e -commerce baskets that we fill are never checked out.
When you think about your 40 hours of research and then we put things in baskets and if you look at the details of why it doesn't happen, it's things like, you made me type in my shipping address one more time.
You still don't know what my credit card number is.
And it's somehow in e -commerce these micro variations in the experience matter quite dramatically.
So it's interesting because I have had experiences like that on Zappos, for example, after you click buy.
It's like, tada, hooray, your shoes are coming.
You're going to feel so excited.
At the same time, it's sort of a curious place to invest in because I've just bought the thing.
It's not enticing me to buy.
It's sort of rewarding me for having bought.
Yeah, I think that's right.
In a way, it's like your next purchase may be far away, but it is this key moment in establishing a relationship with a customer.
And if you do it right, I ordered something from Stonewall Kitchen.
And now they're texting me on a random basis with offers.
But if I had something that was catered more to what I wanted from them, that first order and then if they did it in a more thoughtful way over time, right now it's annoying.
But if they did it in a way where it could opt in and opt out of different things and I would do it at the time of the purchase, I could see how that could be very valuable.
You offered me insurance the past three times when I bought something.
Why do I see this insurance product again?
Don't you know? There's so many elements that then make us feel like they're not really thinking of me.
Right. Like I'm a customer.
I want to somehow be recognized.
But everything that you do, everything I see suggests there's some mindless machine that is just throwing stuff at me that actually has nothing to do with my preferences.
And the two things I really like about the companies, one is it's at a company that is actually profitable, have been profitable for a long time.
They're thinking about going public sometime next year.
There's no service fee.
Their model is entirely sharing the upside.
So they calculate the upside relative to some counterfactual and then they get a fraction of the upside.
So it feels like the heart in the right place, not quite as touching as your examples.
But actually doing something that really improves their customer experience, which is wonderful.
That is great. So I'm going to take us back to social enterprise, away from the cold blooded capital.
So I also have a social enterprise, which I think is spectacular.
It's called Upsolve.
And it's founded by a guy named Rohan Babadari.
And here's the problem he's trying to solve, which is it turns out that filing for bankruptcy in the US is enormously expensive and hard to do.
So chapter seven is the way we do that for individuals.
And it involves both a very cumbersome process and a lot of legal costs conceivably.
And it's precisely for those folks who can least afford it.
At a time when you clearly don't have the funds.
To do it. And so Upsolve is an app that basically streamlines the process for filing for bankruptcy for the individual.
And it is incredibly easy to use.
He's already, I think, processed something like $500 million of debt in aggregate that people are getting relieved of via chapter seven.
And now the next stage of it is, he's trying to provide financial advice to those folks who have just gone through this process.
But he's also fighting a legal battle in many states.
Basically because lawyers are trying to stop him.
Oh, because they're making money off of.
And it's a very weird political battle now.
So it's playing out in New York courts because even people like legal defense funds are saying no, no, no, no, no, no.
It's actually important for us to be able to help them.
And he's saying no, no, no, no, no.
We got to make it as widely and easily possible so anybody can give legal advice.
So it's actually kind of a free speech kit.
But I love the fact that he's, again, taking this very sticky, nasty process, which is filing for bankruptcy, super cumbersome, super costly in precisely the wrong ways from a societal point of view.
And he's trying to really streamline it, make it cheap, make it easy.
And then he's also trying to fight the broader system of lawyers having monopolies on legal advice.
That's always interesting to me to hear about this is a case where lawyers are sort of demanding their share, and also, it reminds me a little bit, we just filed our taxes and it's always so convoluted.
And any attempts to simplify the tax code always run into this like wall of tax advisors who are like, no, no, no, we provide an important service.
Well, actually, I was going to bring some tax start -ups because they're so fascinating, even on like narrow issues like state and local taxes, trying to figure out state and local taxes for e -commerce.
So many interesting things going on.
But these are all places where, God, there's a lot of pain in process, and there's a lot of fear.
And anything that we do in many ways to make it better is really fantastic.
Yes, I agree with you.
But I, at the same time, I'm like, not to be insulting to tax advisors or to lawyers, but there's people who make a lot of money advising people on very complex situations and the more we simplify those situations than those sort of white collar people.
Well, the interesting thing in this case is it's even like the Legal Defense Fund, right?
Right, exactly. So these are people, they're not looking for their cut.
Right, right. They're saying something that I think is worth paying attention to, which is actually, no, you can't just let anybody give legal advice to these people.
I think they're worried in some way that there'll be this entry of a bunch of folks who are not rowing, but a bunch of people who you don't want to do it.
Yeah. And so there is legitimate counter -concern, I guess is what I'm saying.
But he's fighting really hard on this issue.
Yeah. It's always interesting to see innovation on the one hand and then sort of frictions that keep it from happening.
It reminds me a little bit of, I was talking about the car charging spark charge.
Yeah. They wouldn't need to exist if we could have swappable batteries, but the car companies really want to market themselves on their great batteries, and so they don't want a battery that can be swapped from a Tesla to a Volkswagen.
That makes no difference in your purchasing decision, right?
So in the end, it's some sense that I may have an advantage in providing a better battery and I want to keep that advantage.
Yeah. It's sort of the thing where like maybe what's best for the consumer is a battery that can be easily swapped out in 10 seconds that buy someone at a gas station, but that's not what you're going to get.
Right. Because that's not what the companies want.
And of course, we have picks.
Me here, what did you bring?
Well, so I mean, usually I bring too many and this time I'm going to bring half a pick.
No, it's like a negative pick.
Oh, no. No, a negative pick in the sense that rather than give a recommendation, I want to get recommendations on a particular topic from our listeners.
And so here's the problem, and I'd love to hear what your thoughts are.
We are coming up on a period where people are going to be traveling.
There's an expected boom of travel.
So I have always struggled with phone service when I travel.
So I've done many, many different things.
Extra SIM card, get a SIM card in the country you're going to, have an extra phone.
Mm -hmm. Now, I think there are eSIMs in many phones.
E does not stand for electrical sense, or embedded, so there's an extra SIM card in now many phones, which apparently allows you to get on to local networks very easily and very cheaply, no matter what country you are in.
So that's Google Fi and other things.
But I hate this problem, and I have struggled with it many, many times.
I sometimes just use Wi -Fi all the time.
Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah.
So I want to know if there's a good solution to this problem.
So I am being selfish today.
I have no recommendation.
I am putting out a call for recommendations.
So I have no idea whether my solution is really cost efficient.
But I have a plan that essentially allows me to extend domestic prices to anywhere.
Exactly. For a daily rate.
That's right. And it's not outrageously expensive.
And then maybe the main benefit is that I exactly don't think about your problem here.
Well, that's right.
So those plans exist, but it can get very expensive fast, depending on the plan you choose.
But I think there is a better way.
My instincts are there are people who do things better than just do that.
Must be one of our 5 million listeners.
Exactly. I'm looking for suggestions.
I'm looking for suggestions.
That's my recommendation is a negative recommendation or a cry for help.
A cry for help. Oh, my goodness.
Well, if I knew that we could bring a cry for help, it would have prepared differently.
I have an endangered territory.
My pick is The Body and the Marsh, a book by Nick Luce, L -O -U -T -H.
It is the first book in the DCI Craig Gillard series.
Ooh, mystery novels.
It's a British mystery novel.
Oh, my God. Ooh. It's not one of these very character -driven mysteries where you're inside the head of the detective and the detective has a drinking problem and a complicated relationship with his father or whatever.
You just describe like every TV show I watch.
I know, same, same.
And I'm usually really into that kind of thing.
But this is more like a page turning.
It's very twisty and very sneaky and plot -driven.
And it's really all about the plot.
Oh, that's great. If you are traveling, it would be a great airplane book.
So that's The Body and the Marsh.
Fantastic. Wonderful.
Sounds good. What did you bring, Felix?
I have a music recommendation.
It's a Japanese singer, Haru Nemuri.
It's her second album, and it's a strange mix of music, but totally fascinating.
There's a strange music recommendation from Felix.
It's been a long time, Felix.
Yes, I know. So it reminds you a lot of J -pop, this very vibrant, you can imagine you're in some big Japanese city, everybody's hustles.
Pizzicato Five comes to mind, this cheerful side of J -pop.
But then it's also dark at one at the same time, where there's definitely noise rock in there, there's experimental music in there, and everything together.
Usually, I don't know if it always works that well to mix genres.
But in her case, I think really fantastic.
Oh, that is great. So that's enough for everyone to get a taste.
Haru Nemuri is her name.
This is her second album.
Cool. So in with The Rolling Stones and out with Haru Nemuri.
Yeah. There you go.
We cover quite some territory.
And this is it for today.
Thank you for listening.
This was After Hours from the TED Audio Collective.
Thank you.
