Rejection is something we get a lot of practice in.
From the other kids on the playground to soccer team triodes,
to the college we so desperately wanted to go to.
But rejection as a parent from your own child?
That's something we're often not ready for.
I think at least I can imagine as they grow up,
you're not always that one.
They're going to want their older sibling,
or they're going to want a teacher,
or they're going to want their boyfriend
to be that source of comfort.
But I think when they're very young,
and it's going to be a parent,
it does just feel embossing when it's not eaten.
Rejection from your kid cuts deep.
Maybe they insist that only your partner
is the one who knows how to tuck them in at night,
or that you always cut their vegetables the wrong way.
So how do you cope when your kid is upset
because they absolutely do not want you?
I'm Dr. Becky, and this is good inside.
We'll be right back.
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I was going to say, you know,
don't make me feel like a terrible month by the end of it.
But, aw, that's what I like to do that.
So we might have to end this conversation.
I'm listening to it enough to know that's a spiraling worry.
You know, but that's actually,
I think the perfect place to start.
And maybe we're kind of getting to the ending
before I let you tell your whole story.
So we'll do this a weird way.
We're going to get to the ending.
Then I'm going to come back and ask you for details.
Then we'll, right?
But so many times when something is hard with our kids,
like our interpretation, or maybe our fear is,
I'm a bad parent,
or I'm not managing this well.
And that's why this thing is happening.
So hearing you say to me, like,
oh, just please, just don't make me feel like I messed it all up
or like I'm a bad parent.
I think it's also probably insightful for whatever's going on
with your kids in terms of our tendency
to interpret hard moments through the lens of,
does this mean I'm a bad parent,
or does this mean I'm doing it all wrong?
Does that kind of parallel process make sense?
Yeah, very, very much so I did not think
I would be in this position as a parent of having,
so I'll keep, should I give you the quick summary?
Is that helpful?
Yeah, tell it.
Now we'll actually start in the beginning
instead of the middle to end.
So tell me your name, tell me what's on your mind,
tell me where you're zooming in from,
and then we'll jump in.
Okay, cool.
My name's Kusum.
I'm calling from San Francisco.
I have a couple of kids who are five and two.
I need a college five, Anke and a two,
and had a question about kid preferences,
and then very much for very near dad to the mom.
So give me an example.
Tell me the image in your mind or a situation
where this kind of parental preference.
And I want to say, because I think it's real,
where it can feel to a mom like the preference
for a dad feels like extra injurious,
or just feels like a different version
of parental preference than when mom is preferred all the time.
I think there's a lot of expectations
and sociological dynamics there.
So that's what's on your mind.
Your kid is kind of calling out for dad.
Yeah, unfortunately, it happens a lot.
One could just be going to school,
like yesterday morning,
he and my son first didn't want to go to school,
and then insisted that his dad takes him,
or he said, I want daddy.
I want daddy to take me to school,
and it can happen a lot at book time before bed.
I think it hurts the most when one of them is sad.
You do think that's your job.
You're like, okay, what makes him,
or why is he more nurturing it better
at taking care of you when something's wrong than I am?
So tell me right now, what's coming up for you?
I think, honestly, it makes me sad,
it makes me think I'm not doing my job as a mom.
The way I could, or the way I should,
and there's some reason whether it's this temperament
or just the way he is, they look at him
as more protective than nurturing and caring,
and just sort of, they go to when they're having a tough time.
And it's tricky because it shouldn't be about you
in those moments, like it should very much be about
giving them what they need.
And I try to remember that, but it's still tricky.
It's hard to remember anything
when something feels like a dagger to your heart, you know?
So the first thing, I don't know why,
but I do feel compelled to say to you,
I mean, I mean this, is I like you so much.
I just want to say that right away.
And I appreciate you being so honest
and brave and vulnerable.
And I can tell in a second how thoughtful you are
and how much you care about your kids.
So a second, what you're describing,
both in terms of your kids asking for their dad
in these moments and your reaction, as one tell you,
is completely normal.
You are not alone.
These are moments that a lot of parents don't speak about
because I think for a mom, there's something about it
that feels like embarrassed.
Yeah, definitely.
It happened in front of my parents once.
And I was so embarrassed.
So let's get to that moment.
So your parents are visiting and one of your kids is like,
no, I want daddy to do better.
Yeah.
So we were actually in Dubai.
We were visiting them.
And so, you know, jet lag and whatnot,
and Keen needed, he gets really cranky when he's tired.
And he was super cranky.
And I tried to make him feel better
and put him to bed.
And it was just like very explicit, unequivocal.
I want my dad to the degree that my mom was like,
he really wants to be like, let it happen, dad.
Yeah.
And so let's get back there.
And I want you to translate what your son's saying.
I want dad.
What does it feel like he's saying to you?
And don't worry, you're gonna have a thought.
You're gonna be like, this sounds crazy.
I know he's not saying that.
I know, but forget those thoughts.
Just like, let's go there.
What does it feel like he's saying to you?
Or what does it feel like the world is saying to you
in that moment?
He's saying, dad does a better job
taking care of me than you do.
I'm pausing on that because that's,
I mean, this is so important and so powerful.
And I think this is so generalizable when we get triggered
into this spiral in a moment with our kid.
That question is, oh, he's so like,
what does it feel like my kid's saying?
I have my kids having a tantrum in public.
It feels like they're saying, you didn't do a good job
raising me or the world is saying that.
Or my kid's saying, I want dad.
And it feels like they're saying,
dad does a better job taking care of me.
Or maybe even dad does a better job taking care of me
when I'm vulnerable and upset than you do.
To that very question in my head is like, is that true?
And so I think, well, he packed that stuff for a plane trip.
That should have been my job.
I'm very high energy, which can be good,
but he's very soothing and patient.
And so it's very much analyzing, is that true?
And even if it is, like, again, as you said,
I think it feels worse because you really do think
that should be you.
I should always be the one who can provide the best
comfort to my kids when they're in need of comfort.
Not quite.
What's going on?
I rephrase it for me.
I like being wrong.
So I think at least I can imagine as they grow up,
you're not always that one.
You know, they're going to want their older sibling
or they're going to want a teacher
or they're going to want their boyfriend
to be that source of comfort.
But I think when they're very young
and it's going to be apparent,
it does just feel embarrassing when it's not you.
It feels like it's an indictment on your material instinct
on your motherliness.
Yeah.
I just, I want to personally, like, he's a very
selfless individual and I think it makes me feel
more selfish and less competent
that he is the go-to.
And then what happens next?
There's this dynamic where our kids act in a certain way,
they say something.
We kind of translate it immediately
to mean something much grander, right?
Or it's like a barometer of our parenting
or it's this indictment on our parenting.
And then what happens in the moment is we respond
in the moment based on our translation
to try to like prove something to ourselves,
which usually gets in our way of showing up to the other person
and based on what actually is going on for them.
Because we're kind of like playing out
two different plays on the same stage, does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah.
Tell me about, when do you feel connected to your kids?
Like reading to them, playing with them.
I think last night we were in Ony's bed,
Kean was sitting next to me, Ony was between my legs,
they wanted to sing the whole book.
It was great.
I think like you just feel some relief.
Like, okay, it's not as black and white,
like there are times when maybe you're not perfect,
but at least they don't not want you.
And I wanna, I'm gonna ask this to think
in the entry and just about, not as much about them
wanting you or not is just what we were saying before.
Like this was a time I felt really connected with my kids.
Yeah, that felt great.
I was present, they were there and that was it.
And then the moments when there's the, like,
I want daddy, I want daddy, no mommy.
Like I feel, I feel less connected with them in those moments.
And feeling less connected with them in those moments,
then starts to spiral.
It's like, oh, am I ever connected with them?
Oh, do they ever wanna come for me to, you know,
for comfort?
Oh, am I doing something wrong?
Do I need to be a different type of parent?
One, you know, like part of me would love to tell you,
like we're gonna talk about things today.
And then next time your kid does that,
like it's gonna feel totally differently
and you're not gonna be bothered by it.
And then three weeks later,
actually your kids are gonna start saying,
I want mommy.
That would be great.
That would be perfect.
Thank you.
Yeah, but I don't have that playbook,
so I'm just gonna just tell you that.
So you're on the wrong podcast.
Wow.
No.
No.
But what I do think is a really powerful starting point
is to start with, this doesn't feel good to me right now.
I feel rejected.
And start to be able to watch how I feel rejected.
Or this doesn't feel good to me right now,
or I don't feel connected to my kid in this moment.
Start to watch how that kind of beginning
seems to then almost spiral into these really grand
kind of in totality, you know,
kind of truths about the type of parent you are.
And to try to just separate that
and almost start to watch it.
Like, okay, wait, what am I supposed to say to myself?
Right?
I feel rejected right now.
I feel rejected right now.
And one of the things actually in our brief conversation
that I've noticed is when you talk about your feelings,
you tend to use the word you and not I,
I don't know if you know that.
You feel this way or you know you,
which, and as we're talking about feelings in your body,
there's, it's almost like this outside your body-ness, right?
So I'm gonna ask you actually,
let's just do a lecture size now,
say, I feel rejected by my kid.
I feel rejected by my kid.
This is a bad feeling inside my body.
This is a bad feeling inside my body.
I don't feel so connected to my kid right now.
I don't feel very connected to my kid right now.
Tell me what's that like.
I think I preferred using you because I did feel
more external.
It does feel, it feels like the ultimate rejection.
It feels like the ultimate rejection.
So let's do a little exercise.
Where, when today do you think your son will reject you?
Um, he'll come home after his swim lesson
and he'll run to my husband.
Great.
Okay, you can picture it.
Yeah, picture it.
And almost like really try,
and those seems almost like,
why would I do this to myself?
But picture to the point that you're like,
oh, I now actually feel upset.
Like you actually want to generate
a little bit of a response
because that's how we can start to change
how we actually intervene
or what happens in the moment
by almost like preloading
a different way of responding.
So when the moment actually happens,
we're like a little bit got ahead of things
and already started that circuit.
So you're seeing that.
Yeah.
And I want you to just say to yourself,
whichever one feels most natural,
what we just said either,
I feel rejected right now.
Or this is, this feels hard for me.
It could be even simpler.
Yeah, I feel rejected right now.
I feel rejected right now.
Like that's a, that's a really hard feeling.
Yeah. Okay.
And I want you to do this with your hands,
but your hands out, right like me.
Okay, and look at one of your hands.
And I really want to look at that hand
and be like, in this moment,
I feel rejected.
In this moment, I feel rejected.
Okay, and I want you to look at your other hand.
And that doesn't mean anything
about the type of parent I am.
And that doesn't mean anything
about the type of parent I am.
You don't have to believe it yet.
We're just practicing things.
Because actually one of the reasons
I want you to practice using the word I
is because as long as a feeling you have
doesn't kind of live as an experience in your own body,
it's really hard to tolerate the feeling.
So then one of the things a feeling can do
is just it makes up like a really big story.
Because we're not talking like,
yeah, I feel rejected.
That sucks.
That sucks.
Like nobody liked being like,
oh, I'm here for my kid after swim.
And they're like,
daddy!
You know, like am I invisible?
Like that sucks.
Nobody likes that.
But actually step one, it sounds so silly,
but it's also obvious.
Step one to managing that feeling
and stopping the feeling from converting
into like a really big story
about the type of human being you are.
And it's actually like owning.
This is a feeling I am having.
Not one has, not you have.
This is a feeling I am having in my body.
It's living in my body.
Maybe I don't know where it doesn't matter.
I have to be hard on myself about that.
But this is a feeling I'm having.
It's a feeling.
It's not a truth.
It's not a story.
It is a feeling.
And the more comfortable we get,
naming feelings as our own.
The irony is the less they have to turn themselves
into really big stories to try to get the attention
they're looking for.
I feel like your rejection, sad feelings,
is just like, can you just like,
can you just notice me?
I swear, I'll stop creating this whole spiral
if you just like say, hi, you're right.
This does suck.
Like, does that make any sense?
No, it does make sense.
I, this is where I usually get stuck.
It's like, okay, I recognize it.
Yep, still feel shitty.
Great.
No, helping it.
Love it.
It doesn't help if we think the goal
is to get back to baseline or to get to happy
or to get to satisfied and okay with something.
I think it's like this really weird message
we've all gotten through the years.
Like, I don't know why that would be the goal.
I don't know why I'm thinking about this.
But I think about someone I used to see a long time ago
came to me after saying, like,
I really need to stop using all the different types of drugs.
I use.
And whenever something feels bad,
like there's some, you know, drug I use to like,
numb it out.
I just want to be clear with you, if you think therapy
is going to help you the way heroin helps you,
like I just want to tell you,
you're going to be sorely disappointed.
Not only won't things work as quickly,
like coping and talking to yourself
and taking deep breaths does not do it to your body.
What heroin does to your body?
And not only does it not do that as quickly,
you'll never get back to zero.
That's not what life is.
That's not what living is.
So I just want to be clear.
It's like I'm paying money to learn how to cope with feelings
so I can still have the feelings.
And I was like, yeah, yeah, you are.
Yeah.
When you travel with kids,
you get really good at expecting the unexpected.
But my last family vacation,
I didn't expect it to feel, well,
like an actual vacation.
We found an Airbnb with all of these really personal touches,
games for my kids, fresh coffee for me,
and a really comfortable couch that I could sprawl out on
and watch Netflix after my kids went to bed.
The place reminded me a lot of home,
and it made me realize that my place
could also make the perfect Airbnb.
And so could yours.
We've all put so much work into creating a loving,
beautiful home for our families,
whether it's our kids' playroom,
a cozy reading corner,
or even our favorite coffee maker,
and those same personal touches
could also create the perfect getaway for another family.
Plus, it's an easy way to make some extra income
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Your home might be worth more than you think.
Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host.
I wanna talk about a group of kids
that I'm particularly passionate about.
Why?
Because I think these kids are some
of the most misunderstood kids in the world.
I see these kids as deeply feeling kids,
and the world tends to see these kids as oppositional,
defiant kids.
What are the kids I'm talking about?
They're the ones who have explosive meltdowns.
They're the ones who tend to yell,
I hate you, go away when you know
they actually need your help.
They're the ones who will trip and fall,
and then blame you,
even though you were not around them at the time.
These kids are misunderstood
because they're seen for their difficult behaviors
instead of for their underlying core struggles.
And because of this difference,
I really went to work a while ago
and created a completely different approach
for these kids.
And approach that parents tell me
leads to the first time they've ever understood their kid,
and then the first time they've ever seen
productive change in their home.
I wanna make sure you know about my upcoming,
live, deeply feeling kid workshop.
You're going to get an approach that makes you say,
oh my goodness,
this is my kid,
and then you're gonna get a set of strategies
that actually work.
First things first, follow the link in show notes
to see if your child is a DFK
and see exactly how we can help.
All of it is available within membership at goodinside.com.
I can't wait to connect with you inside.
So, my favorite coping mechanism, okay.
And I know it's still gonna be a little bit of like,
okay, Dr. Becky, and then what?
Like fancy coping mechanism doesn't do shit for me, you know?
So, is something I call AVP, and I wanna go over it.
Acknowledge, validate, permit.
And then there's a little bit of an asterisk after.
Or after that, you say the same line to yourself.
And it'll all make sense after I go through it.
I can cope with this.
A is acknowledge,
V is validate, P is permit.
A is acknowledge is just naming what's happening for you.
And that doesn't have to be fancy.
A lot of people think naming of feeling is like,
is this anger, is this shame?
Those words actually don't mean anything.
It could be, I'm noticing I'm having a racing heart.
Or it just could be, I notice I don't like this feeling.
I notice I'm uncomfortable.
I'm acknowledging, I feel rejected.
So, your son rejects you after swim.
And you're like, I'm gonna do this stupid thing, Dr. Becky,
told me to do it, and though again, it's like not gonna work,
but fine, I'll try one time.
And you're gonna say to yourself, what version of that?
Do an A for me.
How do you acknowledge what's happening in your own language?
Yeah.
My heart is racing.
My palms are getting sweaty.
I hate that.
He enlivens my husband.
Great, great.
A plus student crushed it.
Okay, now is the V.
V is validate.
To me, the best way to operationalize validating a feeling
is telling yourself the story of why the feeling makes sense.
And that phrase makes sense.
Like I swear there's something about it
that our body just loves hearing.
So an example might be, well, my kid did want my partner
instead of me, and I know that is a vulnerability for me
and nobody likes that feeling.
So it makes sense that my heart would be racing
and my palms would be sweaty.
It makes sense to feel this way.
Give me your version of that.
Okay, it makes sense that I feel sad.
Perfect.
It makes sense.
I feel sad.
It makes sense and worked up.
It makes sense and some distress.
Any of that makes sense.
So we've acknowledged it.
We've named something.
And for anyone listening, it's like,
I don't like naming my feelings.
It really could just be, I'm uncomfortable.
Er, I am upset and I don't know why.
That's still naming it.
And then makes sense could be, well,
there's a lot of different things going my life.
I do a lot.
So what makes sense that I'm upset,
even if I don't know why.
Like just tell yourself the story of why it makes sense.
Then is the P permit.
And it really is almost the same line every time.
Even though now, and I want you to push back,
this is where people are like,
ugh, like, what does that do?
Okay.
It's just saying, I give myself permission
to feel this way.
Or I give myself permission to feel exactly how I feel.
I give myself permission to feel sad right now.
Right.
So I'm just gonna love it again.
Ugh, my heart is racing.
My palms are sweaty as my son runs to their dad once again.
Ugh, well, I know feeling rejected
is like a pretty bad feeling.
So it makes sense I'd be feeling that way.
I give myself permission to be feeling sad right now.
Do you remember the last line I said?
The, I give myself permission.
Yep.
And then I want you to add, and I can cope with this.
Okay.
And I can cope with this.
And going through this exercise,
what you're really doing inside your body
is instead of allowing a feeling
to run away with itself.
As soon as you name it,
this is actually really powerful.
As soon as you name a feeling in your body,
you are in a relationship with that feeling.
There's you, and there's the feeling.
There's two things.
When you don't name a feeling and a feeling gets big,
it's like a toddler who doesn't get over attention.
They literally take over your whole body.
They really, really do it.
Get louder and louder and louder.
And then you actually can't differentiate you
from the feeling, the feeling like,
my image is like they took over the CEO seat
in the board room and now they're like the CEO of your body.
So naming it actually gives you separation
and makes it a part of you and not all of you.
Tell me where you are.
Okay.
So I was thinking about what you said.
And I agree with you,
but I think, I'm not sure if this is rational or not.
I still have this thought.
To some degree, I realize it where I'm just like,
yeah, but what if I'm not doing enough?
Like honestly, I think if somebody said
if I was shitty system, I'd have all of that
and I'd be like, I'm actually kind of a good sister.
So I don't, I think I could get myself out of it.
Here's what I love about the question.
Here's what you see is useful.
Number one, I would just tell yourself,
being in a shame embarrassment, self-critical spiral
is never the place I could make any productive decisions from.
Like never.
Like that's not a place we make productive decisions from.
So that's first, we have to talk to ourselves,
we recognize our feelings.
Like that's not a place that has some truth to be like,
and so I need to change every way that I parent.
Like you gotta get grounded first a little bit.
But then I, there's a part of your question I want to shift
because I think it's so powerful.
But it's different, right?
I want to hear the difference between see,
like I'm not doing enough as a parent
and I don't do anything and I'm the worst, right?
Versus, I'm glad I'm allowed to feel sad.
In this moment, I feel rejected.
Even saying in this moment,
it feels like a referendum on my parenting.
I'm trying to separate the two.
How I am as a parent, from how I'm feeling.
Okay, okay.
And when we notice ourselves a little more grounded,
I think we can then ask ourselves a very powerful question.
Do I want to show up differently to my kids?
Do I want more of those connected moments?
Is the only way a connected moment counts for me
when my kid is upset and screaming for a parent?
Do I have to wait for those to feel better?
Is there any more that I can generate?
Not to prove to myself I'm a good parent.
But actually just because I want to do more,
do I want to put my phone away more?
Do I want to do more reading?
Because that actually just feels really good with my kid.
But that life questioning, I think is totally different.
Then what I actually think is a very unproductive,
just spiraling tornado form of questioning,
which is see, am I horrible parent?
Do I actually need to do more?
Like I don't even think it's a question.
I think we're just saying to ourselves,
I'm a bad person in the form of asking ourselves a question.
That's very fair.
That second question or that first question about,
do I want to show up differently?
You always want to be doing better.
Like how do you answer that question?
Well, I'm going to turn it back on you.
Remember, we're turning your use into eyes.
That's a big, that's a project.
Maybe give yourself a little like clue and how.
Like don't be so grand to start small.
Do I want to show up differently today?
I think that's it.
I think it's the quick wins, right?
Like I can start getting the kids ready for school
five minutes earlier.
So I'm not.
I'm not a shitty mom when it comes to getting them into the car.
Like that feels like an easy one.
So I'm going to change that for you because it's interesting
how your moments, it's interesting you get so global.
I don't know if you noticed that too.
I want to start getting them out earlier.
So not such a shitty mom.
Like the moment of those five minutes,
I guess something to do with the type of parent you are.
I'm just going to give you a different reframe.
I would like to show up as a calmer, kind of less rushed,
more present version of myself.
And one of the things I know is if I get ready 10 minutes
earlier, that would be easier for me to do.
And I would just feel better about the way I show up that day.
So more days this week, I'm going to set my alarm earlier.
And I know that would just help me live more in line
with my own values.
And that's going to be something I feel
like I end up feeling proud of.
Oh, my kids will probably benefit too.
But I will just feel better about that.
Do you hear the difference?
I'm going to show up 10 minutes earlier.
So I'm not a shitty parent.
And that's something I would tell your kids.
I would say, you know what I'm thinking about?
Sometimes in the morning, I'm a little rushed.
And I don't know if this is true.
I'm going to speak as if this is my own.
I'd say, you know what?
And then I'm rushed.
And then maybe I'm on my phone.
I'm checking an email.
I don't really have to check.
And you know what I realized?
I need to give myself more time.
Because I want to show up in a calmer, sturdier way
for both of us.
And so tomorrow is going to be different.
I'm going to even keep my phone in my bathroom.
And I'm going to bring it out.
Nothing's that important.
A seven in the morning.
I can't wait till 7.30.
And I'm really looking forward to it.
I think you're going to notice a difference.
Honestly, I'm just telling you I think I'm going
to notice a difference.
I think I'm pretty proud of myself.
And that's going to start tomorrow.
And whenever we do things as parents that are wins for us
and help us show up in a way that's actually more in line
with the way we want to show up, yes, our kids benefit.
Not because we became better parent,
but because we actually just accessed and brought out
like the sturdier version of ourselves.
That's good.
I like that.
You know, before we met when I was thinking
about this conversation, I had all these notes.
I like I'm going to talk about this and this.
I talk about none of them, none of them, which is always
what happens.
And I actually think for anyone else listening to this,
I think so often when we have these like triggered moments
with our kids, in which case I would say a moment with them
brings up a really global big story
about the type of person we are.
That's usually assigned whoa, something else is going on, right?
We often think, what should I do?
What should I do in that moment?
What do I do?
What do I do?
Well, the moment is about the story,
not about our kids' behavior.
So actually reflecting on like what we need,
what that story is, how we translate things,
what may be going on for us, what coping skills we need.
I promise is so much more important
and is going to be so much more effective
than trying to memorize the thing to say to your kid,
which won't come to you because you're going to be triggered
and overwhelmed anyway.
But I feel like we did a lot of that.
And I also am just very practical.
So I just want to also share two things
that I would have in your kind of back pocket
in these like, I don't want you, I want daddy moments.
To me, when I've been there too,
I either go straight empathy or I kind of go straight humor.
And empathy is just like, you really wish it was daddy right now.
Or you really want daddy right now.
Kind of imagine that like I'm a character in that moment
that they're not really like insulting my motherhood
and I'm just reflecting back what they want.
It happens to be daddy.
But like I put myself a little outside
so it doesn't seem like an assault on me.
And I imagine them being like,
I really want chocolate ice cream instead of vanilla ice cream.
And I'd be like, oh, you really wish you a chocolate?
Like I just like, it wouldn't be such a personal relationship
assault.
So I just go straight up.
Now again, I think you practicing this kind of AVP,
acknowledge, validate, permit.
That is necessary for you to even be in the grounded spot
to be able to use a strategy with your kids.
So that's the order of operations.
But straight empathy matters.
Because also when you say to your kid,
you really wish it was daddy right now.
You're actually saying to them, I see you.
And you're also saying like, I'm not scared of that.
Like I'm not avoiding that.
And that feels really good to a kid.
And the other thing I can do is straight humor.
Right?
This is great for like, I don't want you to do bath.
Daddy has to do bath.
And I pick up my kit or something.
I'd be like, it's true.
I don't even know where a bath is.
Because this is the bath, right?
And I like to be to the toilet.
And I'm just going to put you in there.
And what is it?
It's like you put soap and then you flush flush.
And then soap flush flush.
That's like, and like inevitably your kid laughs.
And laughter always brings on connection.
It like changes the story or it's true.
I don't even know how to read.
Like I'm going to read you a book.
It is.
It's just funny.
And again, it's like I'm not scared of it.
It's playful.
Not dismissive.
I'm not making fun of my kid.
I'm actually just entering into play around the rejection
or empathizing with my child's underlying desire.
Those two are my personal go-tos.
But I think those two things will only be useful
after kind of thinking a little bit more about
some of the other stuff we talked about.
I like it.
Did I make you feel like a bad parent?
I feel like shit.
No, I feel good.
That was great.
Thank you.
I'll let you know how it goes.
All right.
So nice to talk with you.
Thank you to our podcast sponsors, AirBnB, and Granemals.
Thanks for listening.
To share a story or ask me a question,
go to goodinside.com, Bush Podcast.
Or you could write me at podcast at goodinside.com.
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Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julia Nat,
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I would also like to thank Erica Belski, Mary Panako,
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And one last thing before I let you go.
Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts
and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle,
and even as I have a hard time on the outside.
I remain good inside.
