Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Round Table.
On this environment day, China sets sail on an inspiring journey to restore rivers and lakes from shore to source.
What does it take to bring a river back to life and how can the public ride the current of this transformation?
Coming to you live from Beijing, this is Roundtable.
I'm He Yang. For today's program, I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Gao Jun -Ya in the studio.
First, on today's show!
June 5th isn't just World Environment Day, it's also China's own day to reflect on and commit to ecological progress.
This year, the spotlight is on rivers and lakes with a sweeping action plan aiming to 40 % of China's waters are beautiful by 2027, but this isn't just about cleaner water it's about vibrant life, scenic beauty, and community participation.
So let's take a look at the River Protection Action Plan.
Could you help us go through it?
Yes, China's Ministry of Ecology and Environment unveiled a fresh action plan, actually, just the last months to protect and restore rivers and lakes across the country.
And based on a plan, it integrates the management of water resources, water environment, and water ecology.
The plan sets the goal of completing 40 % of the Beautiful Rivers and Lakes Initiative by 2027, achieving significant progress by 2030 and full completion by 2035, that's 10 years away.
Yeah, so they refer to this as the beautiful rivers and lakes initiative.
Now you might be asking, well, what does that actually mean?
A beautiful river or lake?
Well, under the plan, it's defined as one with sustained ecological flow, also intact or restored ecological functions and surrounding buffer zones.
And by having that buffer zone, you're effectively protecting the biodiversity there also controlled pollutant discharges and water quality that is really improved fundamentally improved or maintained at excellent levels it also has the idea of spaces that meet public expectations for scenic and recreational use so that was taken into account as well what people want and what people expect when they go out to experience a beautiful piece of nature.
Yes, indeed. And also a big part of the plan is to restore aquatic ecosystems. And that sounds like something pretty big.
You know, I'm surprised, is because they aim to make 40 % of China's water beautiful by 2027, because personally, I thought, maybe China has already achieved that goal.
I don't know. So far, so it's less than 40%.
I can't believe that because I think our surroundings, the rivers and waters, I think we can see by ourselves, they're improving all the time.
And I think we've been telling by many friends, their own stories, especially foreign friends, their own observations on China's improvement in terms of water protection.
For example, I was actually working on a climate -related podcast and I was talking to the former Undersecretary General of the United Nations.
He's also the acting director of United Nations Environment Program, Eric Sohaim, and I think he has so many examples to share because he first arrived in China back in 1984.
And over the years, he's been witnessing all the positive improvements.
He's given us an example like there is this is the Milk River back in Zhejiang Province.
Why is milk? Because it was polluted by industries.
And now, we can't believe it.
It's become drinkable water.
Oh really? Yes. So, plenty of examples like that.
Yeah, and it's about protecting aquatic life too.
That's what they want to do.
They want to restore habitats, they want to improve flood control, they want to improve drainage systems. They also want to curb what they call eutrophication in lakes and reservoirs.
That means excessive richness of nutrients in a lake or other body of water.
And that's due to the runoff from the land a lot of the time.
And that causes a lot of really dense, perhaps you've seen it along a river bank or around a lake where you'll have this really dense growth of plant life and death of animal life and that's because of a lack of oxygen.
So that's part of the goal too.
Yes. And unfortunately, we've seen a few pretty iconic lakes in China that went through this detrimental phase.
But the great news is after a lot of effort being put in, a few of these rivers now have seen much clearer water quality.
And these are things that we can definitely go through some of these examples in the later part of today's discussion.
And while the world marks Environment Day with a global focus, China adds its own meaning to June 5th.
So how did the state take root and what does it reflect about China's environmental journey?
Let's go from the world aspect first. Yeah, so this is from UNEP .org talking about World Environment Day.
It's the biggest international day for the And yes, it is indeed led by the United Nations Environment Program, or UNEP, UNEP.
They've held it annually since 1973.
So this has a really long history, and it's grown to be the largest global platform for environmental outreach, and it is indeed celebrated by millions of people all around the world.
And the event this year is taking place in Korea, and they're hosting World Environment Day 2025.
and the focus this time around is on ending plastic pollution globally.
Getting rid of the planet's plastic problem, it's an important contribution to achieving these sustainable development goals, including those on climate action and sustainable production and consumption and protection of seas and oceans, and also repairing ecosystems and retaining a biodiversity.
They're holding it this year in Jeju on Jeju Island in Korea, that's an island south of the country, and I've been there a few times.
It's a beautiful place, it looks like it's a naturally protected environment so I think it's a wonderful location to have this year's event and the theme is Beat Plastic Pollution.
Plastic pollution has been a huge problem plaguing the world, and could you give us an update on status quo now?
Yes, plastic pollution actually permeates every corner of the planet, even our bodies in the form of microplastics.
We talked about that on Roundtable one episode.
Uh -huh, and right now actually more than 400 million tons of plastic is produced every year worldwide, and half of which is designed to be used only once.
And of that, less than 10 % is recycled.
Yes, and an estimated 11 million tons end up in lakes, rivers and seas annually.
Yeah. This is terrible.
It's terrible. And if those numbers don't make sense to you, we can put it in this context.
That's about the approximate weight of 2 ,200 Eiffel Towers altogether.
It's really shocking and it is, yeah, a problem, as you said, Junya, that permeates every corner of the planet.
discarded, burnt, single -use plastic.
It harms human health, it harms biodiversity, it pollutes every ecosystem from mountaintops all the way down to the ocean floors.
And as I mentioned, we talked about microplastics on Round Table on one episode.
Those are those little, tiny, plastic particles that are up to five millimeters in diameter, and they find their way into everything.
Places where we don't even suspect it'll be there.
Food, water, air, chewing gum I think was one of the surprising things that we talked about on that particular show.
It's estimated, this is a little alarming as well.
It's estimated that each person on the planet consumes more than 50 ,000 plastic particles per year, and many more if inhalation is considered, meaning breathing in.
So you mean breathing in?
Yeah. Oh yeah. Thanks for reminding me of this terrible state that we are in.
But, considering that today is World Environment Day, so not only do we hear or raise awareness on these big important environmental issues, then it'd be great if we could see more action.
Well, and we are seeing action, and I actually had a peek around at some different news outlets to see what they were reporting on for this year's event.
And one of the things that I found...
This is from Travel and Tour World.
the green revolution has been ignited across the global travel industry and there were a few examples that they talked about.
You know, aviation is kind of like the elephant in the eco room if you want to put it like that.
But this year, 2025, it's proving to be a pivotal year according to that outlet.
Major airlines, they're accelerating their fleet upgrades, they're replacing older aircraft with fuel efficient models.
These jets can burn less fuel, they can emit fewer pollutants, and offer better long -haul performance.
That's one example.
The hospitality sector, they're no longer treating sustainability as a luxury, but it's treating it as a necessity.
I'm not sure if you've seen in your travels recently, where you'll, you know, if you're looking through lists of hotels that for a possibility to stay, you'll see these eco -friendly hotels that are all about sustainability, they're all being nice to the planet and we're seeing a lot of movement in the hospitality sector that way as well.
A lot of major hotel chains are making moves.
And then finally, a lot of popular destinations.
They're feeling the pressure and then they're responding with purpose too.
Italy, for example, has introduced new crowd control measures in Venice.
Peru has announced stricter entry protocols from Machu Picchu to ensure preservation of the and also in India, the ministry of tourism.
They've launched new sustainability training programs for local guides.
So it's not just about lakes and rivers, it's also about the travel industry and what the industry as a whole can do to better protect our planet.
Yes, and I think every action matters, right?
So we can start from ourselves to take small actions and maybe it won't make a big difference.
I think all of us here in the studio, we are using our own water bottle instead of you know, drinking those water from the plastic bottles.
And if we travel to a certain hotel, maybe we are bringing our own, I don't know, toothpaste, yes slippers, things like that.
It will help to reduce pollution.
Yeah, definitely. And also on June the 5th, this day in China, there's our own theme That is about the river and lake protection.
What else is happening in China on this day?
Well, this actually goes back to 2014, when China officially included June 5th as the annual Environment Day and its environmental protection law.
And this, giving this global event, kind of a Chinese connotation, if you will.
And this year's event, it's held in the southwestern part of the country, in Chongqing Municipality.
And it showcases achievements in ecological protection, and also promoting ecological culture.
And it calls on society as a whole to promote and to protect ecological civilization.
There's been a lot of achievements, I think, in the very beautiful country called China.
Yeah, the Beautiful Rivers and Lakes Initiative is a key chapter in the larger story of Beautiful China, a national vision that also takes center stage on this year's Environment Day.
But what does building a beautiful China truly mean when it comes to our water?
Well, there's another report from China Daily from April of this year, and it talked about the fact that China uses a five tier system for surface water quality.
So grade one would be the best and water graded at or above grade three is considered fairly good and suitable for most aquatic organisms. To go over some figures and maybe an example or two back in 20, 24 almost 91%, 90 .4 % to be specific of surface water was found to be at or above grade three.
And that's up 1 percentage point from the year prior.
And that was a big deal, because it marked the first time that the proportion exceeded 90 percent.
The minister of ecology and the environment highlighted the significant progress that was made in pollution control at one particular lake called Taihu, if I'm saying that correctly.
That's the country's third largest freshwater lake in the lower Yangtze River And then another area the Songhua River in northeast China as well.
And back in 2024 the quality of water in Taihu Lake it reached the level of being fairly good for the first time in the past 30 years...
well done. I really want to clap my hands because as a Chinese citizen and following environmental news I remember a few years back, Taihu was reported to experience that eutrophication issue.
And the locals were so distraught by the fact, and just imagine this is a big lake and then you live nearby, big cities are nearby and then everybody is experiencing this terrible view, as well as smell and just think about the kind of environmental problem that could be, but now that's all changed.
Yeah, and the minister outlined a range of measures that contributed to the positive progress there, including sustained efforts to minimize pollution from cold burning.
In 2024, ultra -low emission upgrades were completed for 130 million metric tons of crude steel production capacity.
On top of that, about two million rural households in northern China shifted from burning cold to using clean fuels for home heating.
And nationwide, 17 ,000 kilometers of sewage pipelines were constructed or renovated last year as well.
Black and odorous water bodies, they were eliminated in cities at and above the prefecture level.
And 80 % of such water bodies in county levels or county seats were cleaned.
And, uh, he also said that around 1 ,440 tailing ponds at the Yangtze River Economic Belt and 360 such ponds in the Yellow River Basin were effectively treated.
That's a lot of work being done and being done effectively.
Yes. And as we were doing research, I have to confess tailing ponds was the first time did I come across this term.
And I did a little bit of digging.
So it is a man -made storage facility often resembling a large lake or reservoir used to store the waste materials and that's the tailings generated during mining operations and these tailings typically a mixture of ground rock, minerals, and water are deposited in the pond for controlled containment and management.
Tailing ponds matter a lot because they help manage the environmental impact of mining by preventing the release of potentially harmful materials into the environment, and in China we are a huge country with a huge population, and we have massive natural resources reserves including mining is a big part of it.
But when you do the per capita calculation, then actually it isn't very much, and these are some of the really big issues that the country has been grappling with and it is great to see that there are these new developments to help the environment.
And speaking of coal burning, you know, my hometown was actually 90 km away from the coal capital of china which is in shanxi province yes datong, yeah datong city it's 90 kilometers away from it you know in my i think it's just the greater datong zone and uh while you know when i grew up it's just everywhere it's just coal a coal on trains or taking coals to the seaside and uh we are using coals in our daily life be it cooking or taking showers But now, the high speed railway from Beijing to Datong is actually almost every weekend fully booked.
Because people are now traveling to Datong.
Datong has set a very good example in terms of reducing pollution, in terms of improving the air quality, water quality, environment.
And it has its historical relics, but most important is the natural environment is improving and people are enjoying it.
is it still a coal -based city economy I think it's changing but still maybe on the larger part still coal -based yeah see this is something that I beg the world to read more spend a little bit more time listening to our show for example and just to learn a little bit more about China's situation in the sense that a lot of as I you know have been doing some reporting throughout the years, and engaged in some of the international exchange programs, etc. For example, like an average person sitting in a nice house in Europe, perhaps.
Sometimes you would question, why don't you just switch off coal altogether in China?
And it's not that easy for China, nor is it for a lot of European countries either, if we're just talking about flipping the switch. Because here in China, actually—this is something that my international peers don't always understand—sometimes we talk about, okay, we're refining our technology and making it far less pollutant in using coal.
That is a huge development for China, because we simply cannot afford to completely abandon coal overnight, although we've been trying to phase it out.
So, that's, I think, part of what Junya has been sort of referring to as well, and there's less use of coal, more efficient use of coal, and we're trying our best to switch to greener energies and this is all happening at the same time.
And let's talk more about the environment protection in China.
Restoring rivers and lakes is a powerful step towards ecological recovery, but clean waters is not only, it's perhaps only part of the picture.
What about the air we breathe?
Yeah, also an important part of the environment, right?
Again this is from that China Daily Report from April of this year, the average density of PM2 .5 particulate matter in major cities nationwide reached 29 .3 micrograms per cubic meter in 2024 compared to the annual target of 32 .2 micrograms. It was also noted that major cities experienced fairly good air quality defined as an index below 100 on the 0 to 500 air quality scale on 87 .2 % of days in 2024.
That's an improvement of 1 .7 percentage points year -on -year and 0 .3 percentage points higher than the yearly goal.
So air quality is improving...
You see that number 87 .2 % of decent air quality in 2024, and that's an increase from the year before, proving that the countries headed in the right direction.
And living here in Beijing, I'll be honest, before I moved here, you know, the kind of, I guess the kind of stereotype globally, I don't know if that's fair to say but I guess I had it in my mind, oh the air quality is going to be bad every single day.
And I've lived here for almost one year now.
And I can say, yep there are days where it's bad, there's no question about that, spring time is a tough time of year.
but once you get into the summer and fall it's gorgeous.
Blue skies, beautiful white clouds overhead, and I must say that was a really pleasant surprise after moving here, because of course you know you believe some of the stereotypes that that you hear.
Yeah well for the years back I remember in Chinese media and international media there were lots of these reports that usually have the illustration of a really smoggy day or a site in the news report of somewhere in Beijing.
And that was true to a certain extent.
But if you've lived in China for the last 10 years, like I have, then you'll see, at least in Beijing, the improvement has been visible and significant.
And there's been so much effort going into fighting air pollution and that means a lot of people had to choose...well actually this is more of a government effort to switch from coal fire power plants to clean energy and some went for natural gas and others.
So, yeah, this is, this is a united effort, and it's not done overnight.
And we're sort of reporting along the way to our listeners as we go through this process.
And with June 5th now deeply rooted in China's environmental calendar, it's only fitting that the year's spotlight falls on Chongqing, a municipality that's quietly leading by example all these different frontiers of environmental protection.
What stood out to you guys?
From Chongqing, yeah this is from the People's Daily.
They've made some really great efforts in advancing the beautiful China initiative.
Last year the water quality of the Chongqing section of the mainstream of the Yangtze River remained excellent for the 8th consecutive year.
Well done there. Also, the number of days with good air quality reached 333, which is also a really significant number.
The city itself, Chongqing, has inspected over 1200 rivers and identified 15 ,000 pollutant discharge outlets into rivers.
So using what they call the Bayou Water Governance big data platform, they have built this digital monitoring system for discharge outlets.
and that enables intelligent long -term oversight and the city promotes joint river management and deepens her horizontal ecological compensation mechanisms ensuring that those who protect the environment are benefiting from it and those who damage it well they have to kind of compensate for that yes and the vision of the beautiful China is grand but it also comes down to choices.
So what can individuals do to turn this vision into reality one action a time?
Hmm. Yeah, what can everyday people do?
Oh, well I think there's plenty that we can do.
You can reduce, you can reuse, and you can recycle.
Have you... I remember learning that my school days, right?
The the three R's to conserve natural resources.
But that's kind of the stuff that we hear about like I said in our schools.
You can volunteer, you can volunteer to help clean ups in your community, you can get involved in your town or your city.
Probably a search on the internet will lead you where you can volunteer and spend some time there and some energy.
You can also educate yourself, knowing what you can do and what others can do can help understand the importance and value of our natural resources and of our planet.
Yeah. I've been talking about taking our own cattle, taking our toothpaste, toothbrushes.
But the one thing that I can't resist is shopping online.
All the parcels, the packages, too much pollution, I think, to the environment.
But I don't know. I think the government or even the producers at the beginning, they need to figure out a certain way to package it's maybe not that in that much plastic, just make it more environmental friendly.
I don't know. Well, that's certainly a one regulation that is already in place that there's a guideline on, well, to stop the over packaging issue, I suppose.
It's such a challenge.
You know, I remember when I lived in Korea, one of the things that I would do when I would go to the grocery store and buy, I don't know, bananas, for example.
The bananas are packaged in a styrofoam base and then they have this other kind of styrofoam around them to protect them, to keep them healthy.
And then that's all wrapped in a plastic wrap.
So what I would do is I would go to pay and when I paid, I would take off all of the plastic and I would just give it to the cashier and then just put the bananas in my bag and go.
But I don't think she will reuse it.
No, and she definitely didn't appreciate it.
But I think the point that I was trying to make, very ineffectively, is that, hey, customers, we don't need this.
Now that's from a customer's point of view.
Why that's so difficult is because they have to get the bananas to the grocery store in a condition that's good enough that customers will buy it.
So listen, if I knew the solution, I'd probably be working in some high up government organization, but it is something that needs to be solved.
I just think we haven't solved it yet.
Yeah, well, you know, your customer reaction, if that company is smart enough, should take note.
And, you know, you've got this bottom -up demand.
And there should be also the top -down action as well.
And a lot of the policy -making, which is happening at this moment will further target these environmental issues that we've brought to your attention today and hopefully come up with better policy in that sense and of course implementation is always key.
This is such a big topic and I guess for kindhearted goodwill people we try our best. I always try to keep this in mind it's that number one we're all roommates sharing the same apartment if we think of the globe as an apartment and we don't own it right?
We don't own planet Earth we're almost renting it in a sense or living here for free so it deserves to be treated with respect if you stayed at your friend's house you'd clean up after yourself wouldn't you?
Then why don't you do that for the Yes, in the end safeguarding rivers and lakes and the air isn't just a government mandate.
It is a societal shift. It asks us to look at the environment not as a resource to be consumed, but as a living ecosystem that we belong to.
