It unlocks their potential.
If you want to increase your team's efficiency and uncomplicate your business, try Fresh Service for IT and Fresh Desk for customer support.
Learn more at freshworks.com.
You hired a new employee, so it's time to get to work, right?
Not quite.
First comes HR software for payroll and benefits, then IT tools and finance software for expenses, and none of the software work together.
That's Fresh. sad software as a disservice.
Rippling lets you run HR, IT and finance on one unified platform, with automations that save time and connect your workflows.
And right now, you can get six months free when you go to rippling.com slash scale.
Learn more at r-i-p-p-l-i-n-g.com, rippling.com slash scale. terms and conditions apply.
Hey, folks, Jeff Berman here.
This week, we're sharing a conversation with hospitality legend Danny Meyer.
You probably best know Danny, as the founder of Shake Shack, which now has hundreds of restaurants in more than 20 countries around the world.
Danny also leads an ever-growing portfolio of one-of-a-kind restaurants and investments through his Union Square hospitality group.
Midway through our conversation, we invited a rising entrepreneur to join us on stage Danny's daughter, Hallie Meyer.
She's making her own name in New York City as the founder of Cafe Pana, a growing ice cream business.
This Masters of Scale Live was recorded in front of an audience in New York City.
It's part of an event series presented by Capital One Business.
We haven't made just how you do it.
This is Masters of Scale.
We kicked off the event with a recording from a story that we did with Danny several years ago, with a live musical score from the artist Margot McDonald.
I'll never forget the first time I finally figured out that almost every Roman trattoria has the exact same pastas on the menu and every one of them is related.
There's the cacio e pepe, which is simply spaghetti with pecorino cheese, olive oil and lots of black pepper.
Then, by simply adding guanciale, the bacon that comes from the cheek of the pig, it becomes spaghetti alla gricia.
Or, by adding eggs, that same exact recipe becomes spaghetti alla carbonara.
And if you omit the eggs and add tomato sauce instead, you get spaghetti alla matriciana.
Four different pastas, all related.
Great Italian cooks really cherish and respect their ingredients.
A little olive oil and salt doesn't provide much disguise if the tomato itself isn't perfectly sun-ripened or if the basil isn't fragrant.
One of the things I discovered about myself in Rome that I prize wherever I find it is an Italian word called sprezzatura.
Sprezzatura is what happens when the food or the painting or the athletic endeavor or the architecture comes across as having been effortless.
In other words, you can dig into a bowl of pasta that is so amazing and makes you so happy, and it appears to be effortless.
That's sprezzatura.
It's so easy to fall into the trap of believing that more is better.
But whenever I find myself thinking that way, I try to remind myself of the simple bowls of pasta that I first discovered in Rome, and that little things can make all the difference.
Now for him, please.
Danny, we were backstage together.
I was watching you listening to that.
What did that bring up for you?
It's actually bringing up a lump in my throat.
Truly.
I can't believe this is happening right now.
Can we go on to a different question?
Sure.
No, you know, I think I've just composed myself.
But first of all, I recorded that. well before the pandemic.
In fact my voice even sounds younger then.
But I think what I was trying to get at is the joy of discovery and how infrequently that happens as you get older.
The fact that you get to taste something for the first time, see something for the first time, smell something, experience something for the first time, and they're still out there.
In fact, one of the reasons I love traveling and I just constantly stay curious.
Audrey and I go to new restaurants all the time, right here in New York or wherever it is we're traveling, but is to get new discoveries.
It's just for me, it's like the greatest joy there is is to learn something new that you never thought of before.
And then and I'll just share one other thing, because I know you guys think about entrepreneurialism and innovation all the time, but innovation is, for me, is never about inventing something that was never there.
It's truly about how many of these discoveries did I store in my taste memory, my heart memory wherever, and then use that file cabinet and pull out those things and combine them at the right time, and maybe freshly, in a way that seems fresh but it really isn't.
What's something that you've discovered or rediscovered recently that's influencing what you're doing or how you're thinking about the world.
You know, I think, Audrey and I were recently in Portugal, which I hadn't been to since I was really, really young.
And the joy of going to a country where I don't know the language.
I can speak Italian and French, but I can't speak Portuguese.
And just kind of soaking up different streetscapes in the wine country, a completely different landscape in the Douro Valley.
It's just so exciting.
I just love learning how people live.
And I've always learned the most by learning how people eat.
So I want to go back to that trip to Italy at 12 and a source of so much inspiration for what you've done in your life and career.
You've talked about your dad having declared bankruptcy a couple of times in your youth.
One might imagine that would be daunting, then for someone to go and be an entrepreneur and build businesses.
What do you think got you there to being an entrepreneur, to being willing to take the risks?
I don't think I ever considered anything other than being an entrepreneur.
That was what I grew up with.
I watched my dad doing that.
And I loved... the creativity aspect of it.
I love that he was a great writer.
He always had a fresh idea up his sleeve.
And it wasn't daunting for me to take something that I was obsessively passionate about, which is going out to restaurants and knowing how I wanted to be treated and trying to create a restaurant, which became Union Square Cafe that, if only it existed, would have been my favorite restaurant.
It was really easy for me.
And in retrospect, It just made complete sense.
We didn't have any restaurants in New York in 1985 like Union Square Cafe.
We had really fancy places and we had a couple chain places, but we didn't have a place that you could eat really good.
Like today.
There's hundreds of them in New York City and Brooklyn.
You know where you can eat really good food and it doesn't matter whether you're wearing jeans or a coat and tie, and they treat you well.
It used to be in New York that the restaurants that treated you the worst were the most popular.
Mm-hmm.
Bizarre, but true.
If someone had told me during the first 10 years of my career I only had one restaurant, if someone had told me I was going to one day be on a show called Masters of Scale, I would have said you're absolutely insane.
I will never, ever open a second restaurant.
Why not?
Because I didn't want to end up bankrupt.
And I associated both of my dad's bankruptcies with scaling his business.
And he did scale his business.
And I'm really sad that it wasn't until after he died, at the very young age of 59, that I gave myself permission to realize I'm not my dad.
And number two, there's a whole lot of businesses in the history of the world that have scaled and not gone bankrupt.
And it it really helped me to understand that it was not about scaling.
It was about his Achilles heel, which is that he didn't surround himself with enough really talented people who complemented both his strengths and his weaknesses.
And instead he surrounded himself with a lot of people.
That made him feel somewhat exalted, which is what he needed emotionally.
And I made a determination to Finally, when I did expand, after almost our 10th birthday at Union Square Cafe, opening Gramercy Tavern, which is now 30 years old that I was going to constantly surround myself with people who could do things better than I could.
And that gets easier and easier as life goes on because, you know –
One of the really fun things about all these years of growing and doing this is that I feel like it's my responsibility to constantly take inventory of what I do during the day.
And truly, because none of us is ever going to invent more hours in the day.
So the real question is, if I am...
Ruthless about saying here is how I'm spending my time, and I do this about once a quarter, literally with a piece of paper and pencil in my office.
Invariably 20 of the things I'm doing are things that someone else on our team could do as well or better than I do it.
And every time I do that it's an act of generosity because someone else gets to grow, and Every time I don't do it, it's an act of selfishness.
But I think even more importantly every time I don't do it, it's an act of stupidity, because I don't get to grow.
And my license to grow is to increasingly do fewer and fewer and fewer things, but increasingly only those things that uniquely, I can do better than anybody else on the team.
Yeah.
I love that insight.
And I
Appreciate that, having a team that complemented with an E, not an I, you allowed you to take the leap.
But what got you over the psychological barrier of taking the leap to go and launch Gramercy and have a second restaurant and then go beyond?
Yeah, two things.
Actually, three things I'd say.
One was a fair amount of therapy, psychoanalysis.
I mean it.
Three days a week on the couch really learning – about what was motivating me and what was demotivating me.
So that was- Did that start after your dad passed or did you start that before he passed?
It ramped up, that's for sure.
Yeah.
And then I'd say the second thing was I got a knock on the door one day from a guy who was a really good chef.
Audrey and I would go to his restaurant called Mondrian.
We loved it.
And his restaurant had gone out of business.
And he knocked on the door, basically.
We saw each other at the Aspen Food and Wine Conference, a guy named Tom Colicchio.
Some of you may know him from Top Chef.
And he said, I want to be your partner.
I love Union Square Cafe, and I think we could do something special together.
And that became really the second kind of way that I created a restaurant with Union Square Cafe.
It was.
I've got this idea that I'm really passionate about, And now I've just got to find the right place for it and the right chef for it.
With Gramercy Tavern because of Tom.
It's like I've got this chef that I really, really want to work with.
And now I've got to figure out the right idea and the right place for it.
So it was therapy.
It was Tom.
And there was a third.
Yeah.
Audrey said, if you don't open a second restaurant, you're stupid.
So marry well.
One of the interesting things about your universe is you have restaurants like Manhattan that are one-offs and, I think, probably designed to be one-offs.
You have restaurants like Daily Provisions that have expanded but are still relatively small.
And then you have Shake Shack, which is incredible scale and scaling.
How do you decide which ones are meant to be what?
Well, that's a great question.
That implies that I ever decided Shake Shack was going to be a scaled concept because I didn't.
It started as a hot dog cart.
And this was the summer of 2001.
We didn't open a second Shake Shack for five years.
So, getting back to your question, I had my hand on the emergency break of scaling forever because of the stuff you asked me about earlier.
And really the thing that pulled me over the edge to open a second Shake Shack it's not anything I ever wanted to do was another two things.
The first one was that the biggest problem we had with that first Shake Shack was way before there were apps on telephones.
You know where you could cut the line by having an app.
And the biggest problem we had was people complained I'd go there more often, but the line is too damn long.
I was one of those people.
Yeah.
I remember.
And we tried everything.
We had a shack cam so that you could look online in real time and see exactly how long the line was.
And people actually loved that.
They used it.
But the second reason was that Randy Garuti, who had become the – it was before he was CEO of the company, but he was definitely running the business at that point for us lived – on the Upper West Side and he walked by this space every single day.
That had been closed for years.
It used to be called the Museum Cafe.
And he said, we've got to open a second Shake Shack.
It'll help us cannibalize the lines.
I said, all right, if you really think so.
And we spent more money than we ever thought we could building this place.
Never thought we would make the money back on the second one.
Second one opens.
The good news was that the lines were around the block.
The bad news was we got robbed on the first night we were open.
Someone broke into our safe.
And the better news was that the line at the first Shake Shack didn't get cannibalized.
It got longer.
And so we said, uh-oh, we got a tiger by the tail.
So most of the restaurants we opened –
I call restaurants of terroir.
They're like a single vineyard wine.
They belong where they were planted.
Gramercy Tavern, not only did we name it after the neighborhood, but you feel like you're there.
Union Square Cafe, you feel like you're there.
And as you said, Manhattan, The Modern, those are restaurants of terroir.
We call those our hardback books.
But then Daily Provisions is another example.
Never intended it to be you know, more than one.
Now there will be seven by three weeks from now.
So it's still tiny relative to Shake Shack.
But if you find that people have found a place in their heart for something you're doing and it's becoming essential, it's becoming part of their lives, you don't have a right to hold it back from people.
You don't have a right to not employ more people.
You don't have a right to not give this gift to communities.
But you've got to really be clear that they love it.
So then you can put it into paperback.
And that's the difference.
You have this knack.
I mean, let's be honest.
You can see a space or you can meet a Tom Colicchio and you see the opportunity.
And I appreciate, almost following the lead of the business and the brand and the customer experience.
You're almost following them on the journey is what I'm hearing you say.
It's a dialogue.
When you start a restaurant and I assume this is the case for a lot of businesses you definitely start with a huge amount of belief and passion that your idea is fresh enough that it's going to solve a problem for somebody that didn't exist.
I've never been excited about doing a replica of something else that I've already seen.
I like to...
We call it writing a new chord with the same existing notes.
So, in the same way that if you're a musician, there's only eight notes in the octave plus some majors and minors.
No one's inventing a new, but that doesn't mean there cannot be an unlimited number of new songs.
And in our case, what I'm always doing and this gets back to discovery is I like to take five different experiences that have stayed with me could be mostly restaurant experiences and asked myself if you merge those all together, what would you get?
One of the other ways that you are achieving scale is through an investment fund.
And it's interesting going through your portfolio, because you are in Salt and Straw, the ice cream company, you're in Pinky Cole's Bloody Vegan, but you're also in Clear, the company that helps you get through lines more quickly.
Goldbelly.
Goldbelly.
How are you deciding where to make investments to help others on their scaling journey?
Yeah, well, so after Shake Shack had its public offering in 2015, a couple things happened.
That was another thing I wasn't all that excited to do, but I'm really glad we did because it was a wealth creator for people on our 100 of.
Everyone on our team at that point got a chance to buy stock at the strike price, which was 21.
The first trade happened at $46.
We never – people were retiring mortgages and school loans and car payments.
We never, ever could have done that on our own.
But I said to myself, this was so great.
Could we do it again?
And I realized that I'm not smart enough and I don't have enough ideas necessarily to ever do that again.
So that's when we came up with the idea of what if we could identify – other entrepreneurs who had fantastic ideas we wish we had come up with but we just hadn't, and who were leading cultures that we would be proud to associate with Union Square Hospitality Group in terms of being an employee first, caring deeply for the guest experience, caring deeply for their communities and their suppliers and obviously, their investors had to be good businesses.
And so we raised a first fund.
And then we raised a second fund.
And we've got about 26 investments at this point.
And I get a chance to be – I'm not on any one of the boards, which is great.
But I'm at meetings three days a week with the investment committee.
And I get to be sort of the great uncle.
I'm no one's dad.
But I'm sort of like a great uncle.
All the founders know that I'm a phone call away.
And it's a good chance for me to – share stuff, mistakes I've learned, so that they don't have to make the same mistakes.
They can make new mistakes, but they don't have to make the same old ones.
When we talk to investors, they're often talking about betting on the entrepreneur.
It just feels like you've got a nose for the idea as well.
How much of it for you is the person and how much is the concept?
Well, we're learning, you know, because we look back.
I think anyone who's got a fund.
You look back at the good ones you missed and you're Unfortunately.
You look back at a lot of the bad ones you're happy you missed.
And I think we probably made more money by not betting on the ones that we're happy we missed.
But I do think that in general, the leadership is probably even more potent than the idea itself.
I think a great leader can pivot and make a decent idea even better, but I've never seen a great idea overcome bad leadership.
More with Danny Meyer and we'll meet his daughter Hallie, to hear how she's growing her popular New York City ice cream business, Cafe Pana, in just a minute.
This is Mike Nicholas Capital One, business customer and co-founder of Ansett Uncles, a plant-based restaurant and community space in Brooklyn, New York.
And he's telling us how they started a product line.
We already had a space in the community.
The food was an extension of our lifestyle and our values.
So we know we wanted to create something that was an offshoot to that.
Our pepper sauce, that's my grandmother's recipe.
That's like a liquid gold, right?
If someone wants to approach us and ask us, what do we do?
We provide flavor.
Growing a product line is no small investment, but Mike and his wife and co-founder Nicole, were able to manage with the help of their Capital One business card.
Working with Capital One Business, we're able to leverage our limits and utilize those points, making sure we can continue the scale at the speed that we need it to go.
To learn more, go to CapitalOne.com slash business cards.
Every founder knows the paradox of productivity.
You add tools to save time, but somehow you spend more time switching between them.
That's where Superhuman changes the game.
It's not one more AI assistant.
It's an entire suite that lives where you work, in your email, your docs, and anywhere you write.
And it's tailored to you, so it sounds like you, not like everyone else.
With Grammarly Coda and Superhuman Mail built in it anticipates what you need before you even ask.
Because real productivity isn't about working harder.
It's about working smarter.
Unleash your superhuman potential with AI that meets you where you work.
Learn more at superhuman.com slash podcast.
That's superhuman.com slash podcast.
Welcome back to Masters of Scale.
You can find this conversation and more on the Masters of Scale YouTube channel.
One of the other ways you're scaling is by raising a next generation of entrepreneurs.
So I'd love to invite your daughter, Hallie, up and join us on stage.
Thanks for having me.
I'm thrilled you're here.
Hallie, part of your journey involves Rome as well.
Will you tell us about what Rome is for you in your journey?
Sure.
It's kind of alarming how similar the journey of inspiration is, especially since growing up, I think, and especially since I've started my own business.
There's been a lot of kind of tension between well, are you doing exactly what your dad's doing?
Are you doing something totally different?
And it's a very interesting tension, but it's no denying that Rome is a huge thing for both of us.
It's just the place that...
For me, I think the story started when I traveled there with my family growing up.
But I think it really kind of solidified when I had an experience in Actually, after the 2016 election, I decided to leave the startup I was working on because it didn't feel like the right thing to do anymore.
Was it in the food space?
It was.
It was in the food tech space, actually.
Yeah, it was a home-cooked meal delivery service, which there are many of now, actually.
But...
At the time, I said, you know what, I want to sign up for a year of AmeriCorps service.
And that year of service didn't begin until the following school year.
I was like, I think I want to open an ice cream business eventually.
So I think I should just go to Rome because it's a place that I've loved growing up.
And I found a cooking job at a place called the American Academy in Rome, Rome Sustainable Food Project, which is still hosting cooks from Rome, from around the world.
Actually, in this like fellowship program, I made it a goal to eat at least two gelaterias in Rome every single day I was there.
Great goal.
And I definitely did at least two.
Good for you.
And it recorded all of the experiences, but all of it was, you know, with in mind, like how can I put these notes together?
Yeah.
So tell us about Cafe Panna and What have you taken from your experience growing up with your dad?
And what are you doing differently?
So I'll start with Cafe Panna.
So Cafe Panna is an Italian-inspired ice cream store or business now because we have two locations.
We make everything in-house.
We change the menu daily, which is kind of the most fun part for me.
And that's based on the ingredients that are available at the market or that's based on?
It's based on a lot of inputs.
I would say like one is just whim.
The next is definitely the ingredients available.
The next is customers sending dozens of emails a week saying you really need to do this.
Take on a Swedish dessert I had.
It's banana with meringue and Nutella.
Got it.
Great.
We're going to do that.
And then they feel like they've just won the lottery because we made their flavor.
That's the fun of it is like speaking to people in all of their different ice cream languages.
But yeah, a lot of it does have to do with the, with the ingredients that are available.
And that was how the kitchen ran at the Rome Sustainable Food Project, the menu change daily.
So that was fun to kind of like take that.
And at the gelateria I worked at in Rome as well.
It was like every morning you got in.
Okay, what are we making?
So that approach like is, that's what, keeps me excited.
I think it keeps my team pretty excited too.
And it keeps our customers excited.
Now at this stage, the business is a little over five years old, the Gramercy location.
And we opened a much bigger factory in Brooklyn in July.
So it's also a storefront, but now we're producing all the ice cream there.
So we've got a lot more capacity than we did.
So we currently sell at those two stores, ship nationwide on Goldbelly and sell to a growing roster of hand-selected wholesale partners, specialty stores and restaurants.
Great.
And what from your dad's experience has really informed what you're doing?
And both like, oh, my God, I'm totally doing that.
And oh, my God, I'm totally not doing that.
Yeah well, definitely hearing this during the last 20 minutes, I'm like wow, I'm really doing that.
I think one of the things my dad is really good at is he doesn't give me advice unless I ask for it.
Which I really appreciate.
And usually you can correct me if you think I'm wrong.
But I think usually the thing I come to you for advice for is generally around HR moments and conversations.
But I think what I'm hearing a lot of from your story is kind of where I'm at right now, which is a little bit of an instinct to press the brakes on scale, and for me it comes from just like an obsession with the product itself and just really really believing that our success to date has to do with people's love for the product and the and the places that they get it and their memories around that, and that getting any bigger than a certain point could potentially like burst the the bubble of obsession people have with it.
So I'm definitely hearing a lot of that.
Yeah.
For you, how do you know?
You're describing an instinct.
Is it instinctual?
Is it more analytical?
Are there data points you're looking at?
Or is this like I just feel that we might lose control of this, of the quality of the relationship with the customer?
I think it's definitely feeling, because there's plenty of data to suggest that people want more of the ice cream in more places.
However, I do think unlike a restaurant, there's plenty of ice cream companies out there, right?
And so there's plenty of data in that regard.
You don't think there's plenty of restaurants out there?
Yeah, sorry.
There's something different about it.
I can't describe it.
But people see this as a product business as opposed to like a full-on experience, which is part of what I love about it, right?
Because our interaction with people can be like the majority of the speaking to their souls we do, can be through the flavor, which I love, because that's what keeps me going.
Even though of course we have to have a nice experience at the register and hopefully we're wiping your tables down in the cafe and you get your order on time if you order through DoorDash.
But it's so different than putting on a show every single night in a restaurant.
So I think that seeing other ice cream businesses' stories of growth, many of which I love.
I love all ice cream.
I'm truly obsessed with ice cream.
My dad can attest to that, and so can my mom.
It's easy to see where a brand that people just adore and consider like a personality trait of theirs can become something that is just everyone's suddenly.
So I'm definitely... wrestling with that.
Yeah.
Danny, how did you react to your daughter going into a version of the family business?
Well, Hallie's been, I love it.
I don't think we ever said, Hallie, you should do this or you should not do that.
Hallie's been cooking her entire life.
I know when I was a kid growing up in St.
Louis, instead of doing homework, I would go out and play touch football or street hockey or whatever.
Hallie did her homework and her version of, you know, blowing off steam was to go read cookbooks.
Hallie, what's success for you in this?
See, this is the type of question that, I mean, you're just getting at the core of it.
That's my job.
Yeah.
So I think right now in this particular moment, I'm especially in the it's just over five years.
I was the only person that wasn't an hourly staff member until a year and a half ago.
Like I have done every single thing in the business.
So everything I see through a very kind of like operational lens and I'm working my way kind of trying to work my way away from that, because I know the importance now of taking your what you do in a day list.
And that was the other thing that I was like wow yeah, I guess this is another thing I've absorbed.
Really trying to make sure that I'm not doing things I'm not so good at, because I can bring the most to the table when I'm doing the things I'm really good at which, for me, is the creative side, the menu development side, the recipes and all of that.
It's really not managing managers, which I have done for four years, but God, it just...
I'm really excited to have someone who's good at doing that now.
So I think that's a little bit in my way of saying, well, what's the next step?
But what success for me looks like is that the product is perfect and that everyone who buys it is just obsessed with it.
And we're there right now.
And so I think that's the fear.
It's like, well, what happens if you do more?
But more specifically, now that we have the Brooklyn location up and running, it's starting to be able to say yes to more wholesale partners.
So a lot of people want a lot of small stores, want to stock the product, some bigger stores too, and some that I'm wondering does this work?
Does this not work?
But I think it's pressing the gas on wholesale out of this location and not pressing the gas on more scoop shops yet.
Before we get to a final few lightning round questions that we do.
Dani, if I remember right, I've heard you talk about not pursuing perfection.
When you hear Hallie say the product is perfect.
I don't like that.
I don't think it's perfect.
I don't think it's perfect.
I just think it's so great and fun.
And it's, you know.
Why don't you like it?
I don't like the word perfect.
Yeah, no, I don't either.
No, I think perfection is a recipe for unhappiness.
I really do.
And so yeah, I'm really all about perfection, pursuing excellence, which is, for me, the way I describe it.
No, you can have all the perfection you want.
I definitely don't have any of it.
I won't have it because I can't.
But what I love is the journey of excellence, which is this kind of balance between honoring the work you did yesterday, flawed though it was, because we're all human but honor it.
No one woke up this morning saying, I really want to suck today.
Yeah.
Right.
Everybody gave it their best, even if it wasn't a great day, but honor it and then figure out how could we do it a little bit better tomorrow.
It's a phenomenal segue to you're both known for incredible customer service and hospitality.
What's either a non-obvious component of that for you or a non-obvious source of why you've become so great at that, especially in the ice cream world, where people have really really strong emotional attachments to their specific order that they placed or the fact that their flavor is not back.
But I think the biggest lesson I've learned is just how much you can make someone's day if you remember the flavor they like.
You shoot them an email the week you're launching something like it and they just It's that type of thing.
It's like the fact that their whole day can be made by the fact that their local ice cream shop remembered that they like a flavor called Galaxy that has pink frosting in it, you know.
Which sounds awesome.
Yeah.
How about for you, Danny?
You know, I think about it a lot.
I spent a lot of time both as a salesman when I was first living in New York and I would drive around the city and We didn't have the internet.
But wherever I picked, to eat lunch by myself was the highlight of my day.
And I was nosing out places to eat, discovering new places in all the boroughs.
I often found that solo diners were not treated very well.
And I traveled solo to London.
I traveled solo to France.
And a lot of times they would look down their nose because you were just one.
And so a big part of My motivation for hospitality is how I wanted to be treated.
Well, I don't know about you.
I'm super hungry now.
So let's leave with this.
Dani, you said you don't offer Hallie advice unless she asks for it.
I'm asking you, on behalf of everyone here and listening and watching, one piece of advice from each of you.
Hallie, you want to start?
No, absolutely not.
No?
I think you started the whole thing, so...
I think if you're an entrepreneur, I would say try to grow where you're planted before you just propagate.
I like scaling.
I've learned to scale.
I enjoy it because I like seeing people on our team get to grow.
But I think it was a great, for whatever emotional reasons, I didn't grow for 10 years.
The gift to me was that I planted roots first.
And I think we know this from grapevines that the deeper those roots dig into the soil, the more flavor the resulting wine will end up having.
And so try to grow where you're planted a little bit before you scale.
Love that.
I think that's very much what's probably on my mind and driving the slowness.
The one piece of advice— that I have is not even from me.
It's from Stephen Sondheim, which I love because of my grandmother and both of my parents.
And it's a quote from Sunday in the Park with George, which is about an artist.
And it definitely has to do with doing things at your own pace and not letting external forces push you to move at any different pace.
And it's anything you do, let it come from you. then it will be new.
Beautiful.
Dan and Hallie, thank you so much for being at Masters Scale Live.
Anything you do, let it come from you, then it will be new.
Wise words shared by Hallie Meyer and so many insightful lessons from both her and her father Danny, in our conversation.
I'm Jeff Berman.
Thank you for listening.
Capital One business customer and owner of Emily Warden Designs, a handcrafted fine jewelry store in Richmond, Virginia that got its start in a dorm room.
I said I was going to try it for a year.
I signed up to do craft shows.
Trade shows got into a few local boutiques and then things just picked up from there.
Emily's steady success at trade shows gave her the capital she needed to invest in a storefront.
Every cent that was made was going back into the business.
I was nervous that we weren't going to get enough traffic, but we had a huge turnout.
With Emily Warden Designs firmly establishing itself in the Richmond community, Emily would need to significantly increase inventory in order to keep up with demand.
And she looked to her Capital One business card for support.
The purchases were so high, I needed to get a business credit card.
And I looked at Capital One. the options and the cash back was so amazing.
It gives me even more of a push to take a leap in getting one or two extra stones because I have that extra cushion.
To learn more, go to CapitalOne.com slash business cards.
When a company grows, one principle holds true.
You don't just scale a business, you also scale a network of people.
And that network relies on trust, especially around the basics, onboarding, benefits, and payroll.
Your team isn't just employees.
They're partners in the journey.
They depend on you for clarity, and you depend on them for momentum.
That's why companies rely on JustWorks to handle the basics like automated payroll and benefits.
And if someone has a question at 5 a.m., a real human picks up the phone.
Because at scale, reliability isn't a luxury.
It's infrastructure.
JustWorks, for your people.
In private capital.
Opportunity moves fast.
But your greatest advantage isn't your capital, it's your network.
Affinity turns your firm's collective network into a deal-making machine.
Its relationship intelligence platform maps every connection across your team, revealing warm paths to founders, bankers and decision-makers in seconds.
No more spreadsheets or manual tracking.
Affinity automatically captures and enriches your relationship data with insights from PitchBook, CrunchBase and more.
In fact, more than 3000 firms, from BlackRock to Bain Capital, use Affinity to close deals 30 faster.
Affinity, turn relationships into your competitive advantage.
Learn more at affinity.co.
Masters of Scale is a Wait What original.
Our executive producer is Eve Troh.
Our senior producer is Tricia Bobita.
The production team includes Tucker Legerski, Masha Makotunina, Brandon Klein, and Timothy Liu Lee.
Our senior talent executive is Stephanie Stern.
Mixing and mastering by Aaron Bastinelli and Brian Pugh.
Original music by Ryan Holiday.
Our head of podcasts is Lital Molad.
Visit mastersofscale.com to find the transcript for this episode and to subscribe to our newsletter.
Special thanks to musician Margo McDonald, the entire Wait What?
Events team and the crew at the Green Space in New York City.
