WBUR Podcasts, Boston.
The universe has good news for the lost, lonely, and heart sick.
Sugar is here, the both of us, speaking straight into your ears.
I'm Cheryl Strayed.
I'm Steve Almond. This is Dear Sugar Radio.
Oh dear song, won't you please?
She has some little sweet days with me.
I check my bedb of every day.
Oh, and this sugar, you see in my way.
Hi Cheryl.
Hi Steve, how are you?
I am doing good. I'm terrific.
We're going to do another of our rapid fire episodes today.
And the theme, we're going to talk about love and doubt.
People who are quite clear about their feelings of affection or love or lust or compatibility.
But they have that one question that they're struggling to answer.
It's like the love train has chugging along and gaining momentum and it just crashes into the giant boulder of doubt.
How's that for a terrible metaphor?
It's a pretty good one.
So the question is, can we help them get back on track?
Okay, we're going to leap right in. I'll read the first letter.
Do it.
Dear sugars, I've been dating a wonderful man for just over a year.
We've been officially a couple for just about six months.
We have so much fun when we're together and he shows me that he cares in so many ways.
Sneaking quietly into bed so he doesn't wake me, inviting me to his family holidays, lots of kisses and snuggles when we're together.
And I miss you when we're apart.
We spend all of our free time together and we've decided to move in together in a few months.
We talk about everything. He shares his ambitions, his insecurities, and whenever we have a disagreement, we talk it out.
He's more open about his feelings than anyone I've ever dated.
He's told me that I'm the person he feels closest to.
But there's one thing he hasn't shared, his love.
While I feel it from him, he hasn't uttered those three little words to me.
I love you.
Each time our relationship has moved to the next level, I've been the proactive one.
So on this front, I've held back.
I'm waiting for him to tell me he loves me before I say it.
I'd like to know he loves me before we take the next step of sharing a home together.
But I don't feel comfortable asking, do you love me?
If he said yes, I'd feel like I'd forced it.
Like he said it because he knew it's what I wanted to hear.
So sugar's what do I do?
Can I get him to express his love and words without disbelieving it?
How long is too long to wait to hear? I love you.
Signed, I love him.
I love him.
Cheryl, I love you.
I love you. It's on the record.
I love him.
It's so important to hear those words.
You have the right to hear those words. They're meaningful to you.
But I'm having trouble making sense of your letter.
Because I'm having trouble squaring.
We talk about everything. He's more open about his feelings than anyone I've ever dated
with the feeling that you have that language that you need is being withheld from you.
And I think that requires that you figure out how important hearing those three words are
versus the actions that are really the embodiment of, the enacting of love in one another's lives.
It's also significant that you are on the brink of moving in together,
or you've decided to move in together, and that nowhere in that conversation
did you express to him, I need to hear you say that you love me.
I think you need to somehow rectify the part of your boyfriend in this relationship
that is moving full speed ahead.
He's the best thing that ever happened. We talk about everything he's more emotionally available
in anybody I've ever been with with the part that's saying,
but somehow, despite all of that,
he's not saying these three words is lighting that flame of doubt within me.
And so he needs to know that because he's your guy.
Yeah, I agree. You have to talk to him.
And I want to say, you know, welcome to a long-term relationship.
If, you know, there's the way that you want the other person to be or behave.
And then there's the way that they are and behave.
And you need to negotiate these things.
And so to me, it just sounds like that he loves you and that you love him.
And he just has, assigns a very different value to those three words.
And then he has to have a good friend who is the mother to two kids who are now grown up there in their 20s.
And a few years ago, we were talking about being parents.
And she mentioned to me that she never said to her children, I love you.
She had overheard me talking to my kids on the phone.
And we say, I love you literally like 20 times a day to each other.
That's just the culture of our family.
And the culture of her family is that they didn't say it.
But what was interesting to me is that it didn't mean that she didn't love her kids.
And her kids knew that she loved them, but she just didn't say it.
And I think that maybe this is what's going on with your boyfriend.
I love him.
Like maybe for whatever reason, that's just not a thing that he has said in his life to people.
I want to underscore this because I think it's such an important point.
I come from one of those families that did not say I love you.
And I literally had to train myself to say to Aaron and to say to even friends of mine.
When they say I love you, I feel uncomfortable.
It's as if there's been a sudden kind of intrusion of intense direct emotion that makes me feel frozen.
I get stage fright.
Interesting.
Yeah, and it's terrible.
I mean, I really literally now I can say I say to all the time to Aaron, I love you because I know it's shorthand for all the things I love him that your boyfriend does for you.
And I imagine that if you explain to him that it's personally meaningful, even if it makes him feel a little uncomfortable, you'll find out what his relationship to that phrase is.
And whether it's something you should be unsettled by, I don't feel I'm at a point where I can say that.
Or of course I love you.
We're moving in together, but that's not how our family or I didn't realize it was so important to you or dot dot dot.
It doesn't sound like there's any problem with commitment here.
He's full speed ahead.
Let's move in together.
Yeah.
I think you just need to revise your ideas about what this exchange is going to be like.
The two options I see you taking are either just go ahead and say I love you and see what happens and you are going to just have to let go of this really sort of archaic sexist notion that he be the person who says first I love you so that it's you know.
It's spontaneous and real.
Yes. And you know, you're just not going to get that probably.
Or you just say I need to talk to you about something I love you and I am perplexed that you haven't said you love me and I've been waiting for you to say it and and I don't know why it's important to me that you say it first but it is.
When my husband and I decided to get married, it was a perfectly mutual decision that we made together.
But I wanted him to then ask me to marry him and I completely see that for like the sexist bullshit narrative that it is and yet I still wanted that piece of it to be in my life like I wanted I wanted him to do that asking and maybe it's rooted in what you have to say about this feeling that you are the proactive one that you're the one who compels emotional growth in your relationship deepens the relationship at each juncture.
And so that's something really important for you to unpack and I think that this I love you conversation can be a great portal into that deeper relationship.
Right. Yeah. It's really the question is are we both moving in together? Did we decide that together? Are we going to make decisions mutually rather than me having to kind of drag you along because that's not you know this not hearing I love you standing in for a larger resentment that you're having to do that work of pushing things deeper.
And that should be work you do together and happily. We love you. I love him. Yes. Okay. Next letter. Here we go. Dear sugars. I've been with my girlfriend for about a year now and I've never felt such a strong connection to someone.
She and I have more in common than I've ever shared with a partner in our relationship has progressed very quickly. The only problem is when we first met I didn't feel as much of a physical attraction to her as I thought I should.
But I decided that my attraction to her on all other levels was deep enough to overcome that I thought that our physical chemistry would grow in time but unfortunately it hasn't.
I feel terrible and shallow for even writing this down and I can't imagine how I could ever explain this to her without hurting her deeply.
I've even felt some of my male friends imply or say outright that they thought I could quote do better.
My question for you is am I doing the right thing and pursuing a relationship with this wonderful person and ignoring what I perceive to be totally invented standards of beauty or is physical chemistry the first and most important part of a real relationship.
Sincerely struggling with standards here all I am so curious to hear you take struggling with standards. I think that you are up against two things that you've conflated into one. Okay. And you mentioned them both in your letter as if they are one.
There is your physical attraction to your girlfriend and the physical chemistry you have with her the sexual chemistry you have with her.
And the invented standards of beauty and this idea that your friends have put into your head that you can quote and quote do better.
Now what I take that to mean is that she that your girlfriend might be attractive but she's not you know a beauty. She's not a stunningly gorgeous woman and your friends think that you could be with somebody who's prettier than her.
And what I want to say to you first of all is those are two different things. Okay. The person that you're attracted to and you have chemistry with is not necessarily the person who fits into these standard conventions of beauty.
And this has Steve has talked about this in his own sort of sexual trajectory really like that you when you're young you sort of think like the hottest person is the person that's the mood that meets those conventions.
Right. And then what happens in life is you start dating people and you start sleeping with people and you find that actually sometimes the person you connect with the most doesn't fit so neatly into that box even that box that you've sort of invented in your own mind.
Right. And so the first question I want you to think about struggling with standards is are you having a really powerful physical bond with his woman or are you sort of hung up like is the thing that's inhibiting you from having that bond or having that chemistry.
Is it this idea of what women should look like and if that's the case the great news about that as it can be revised you know you can say you know fuck those standards I love sleeping with her I love you know this relationship.
Now if on the other hand it is a chemistry issue rather than a beauty standards issue then I do think that you're right for asking this question and that it's an important one because part of a relationship part of a romantic relationship that sustains itself over time is a very important thing.
And then what you're thinking about over time is dependent on you being able to have that kind of intimate physical erotic connection with somebody and of course as we've discussed many times on the show you know how hot that is wanes over time and then like it re-ignites and it can shift in all these ways but if you don't have a basic real attraction to your romantic partner I do think you need to rethink the relationship and maybe break up or become friends.
If you decide to end this relationship struggling with standards I really don't think you should say to your girlfriend it's because she's not physically attractive enough for you because that is an absolutely first of all that's a really subjective opinion and it's one that will hurt her for a long time and probably affect her for many relationships.
The pattern in my life has been when I get involved with somebody as I find out more about who they are and all the hidden beautiful things within them they become more attractive to me and what's really unsettling here is that for whatever reason after a year she has not become more attractive to you and that to me is the trouble sign but I do think that you are right to feel ashamed and troubled by the fact that you are not attractive enough for a long time.
The first place you go after that realization is these friends of mine who say that I could do better because I think this is what being steeped in this kind of culture that is beauty youth and beauty worshipping it mixes up our internal lives.
I can't separate those it wouldn't be wonderful if we could separate those two parts how much is chemistry and how much is this external standard the problem is we've internalized these things and they become false sacred texts inside us that we should be able to get a 10 or an 8 because we're a thus and such and that is something that you should probably question yourself about but at the bottom of it you cannot fake chemistry you cannot be you know and friend of mine said to me years ago
before I was married you said you know Steve you want to marry a woman that you're just attracted to enough that you want to sleep with them but no more than that you know like you shouldn't be crazy after them and at the time I thought I don't you know I
know I think the idea to just be with somebody who just crazy about all the time and you think they're just there are 10 and I've realized like well that's the reason that I feel that way towards Aaron and I'm desirous of her is because I've gotten to know her and we made a life together and I feel like my chemistry responds more to her the longer I've known her in the deeper
relationship has become a year isn't a short amount of time to kind of figure out whether she's start you're getting past the superficial signifiers of desire and the real chemistry the underlying
chemistry is there and if it's not it's not and don't waste her time or yours sort of trying to fake it because that is its own kind of form of
affiliation to stay in a relationship where you know it's not the only ingredient but it is an essential ingredient if it's not there be honest about I agree with Cheryl I
would not make it precisely about beauty but I would take stock of the part of yourself that might be mixed up about how much is about beauty and how much is
chemistry and how those two things have become a link in your mind and heart.
Okay next question dear sugars I recently met a great guy I'll call Richard on a dating app and we've been seeing each other pretty
regularly for about a month recently he shared with me that he would like our relationship to become exclusive and for us to be boyfriend
and girlfriend I've been single for about four years I'm 30 and I'd very much like to be in a committed
relationship I told him that I wanted the same things but I'm still in the process of getting to know and understand
him and I needed more time since then we've both shared with each other about our past relationships and he revealed to me that when he was in
college and in law school he cheated on every girlfriend that he ever had he says that he is not acted this way for about seven years and he has
since had other girlfriends to whom he was faithful when he told me this I tried to remain open and non judgmental I asked him how he was
able to rationalize this behavior to himself and he said to be honest I just turned that part of my brain off he emphasized that he was much younger
than and he was sewing his wild oats and that he wouldn't cheat on me now because that simply isn't what he wants he wants someone to spend time
with and to be in a committed relationship with he's a very matter of fact type and he doesn't mince words so I take him at his
word that he doesn't have any plans to resume his cheating ways however there are a couple of things that concern me about this one thing is that he
didn't express much regret or self reflection it seemed as though he was saying his bad behavior suited his desires back then but they don't know
and so he has cut out those behaviors but what I want is a man who has values and principles that guide him through life not someone who picks
and chooses when doing the right things suits him the second thing is that some of his friends who he hangs out with continue to cheat on their girlfriends or spouses
while the acknowledges that their behavior is scummy it's odd to me that he could be friends with people like that I know this might sound super self-righteous but I can honestly say that the people
eyes around myself with are good people and do not cheat on their significant others am I judging him too harshly for cheating all those years back
should I be giving him credit for being forthcoming about it or is it obvious that he doesn't have a strong moral compass I so would like for this relationship to work but I'm not willing to commit to someone I don't
deem trustworthy sugars what should I do signed to judgey or not judgey enough that's a great sign off you know this is a sticky one because what it sounds like to judgey and I judgey enough what's unsettling you is that this is a
good thing is that this guy doesn't have an adequate capacity to self reflect and to tell you I not only did I do these things but I know they're wrong and they're not wrong because they're not what I want now they're wrong because that's that was
hurtful to who I was with you say he's very matter of fact and doesn't mince words so you sort of believe his declaration but there's something untrustworthy about how he's saying it it's sort of
disassociated somebody oh I'm sorry that you were upset by that I'm sorry that upset you as opposed to I'm sorry that I said something that was clearly hurtful to you I did that it's more it feels like he sort of
disassociates a little bit I feel like a month into this thing you need to have a talk with him before it goes any further and say I know we talked about this and I know you think the
thing is over but it's not for me I'm also a little bit curious about why it came up because I don't make an assumption that everybody has been faithful to everybody they've been with especially in the late teens 20s I feel like the
landscape out there you don't know what you know sort of the world he was moving through I don't have the expectation that somehow he should have been
faithful to all of his partners and I think frankly that's the part of you that's being too judgey the part of you that maybe isn't being judgmental enough is the part that feels unsettled by the way that he discusses his personal morality especially as it relates to being
faithful to you if you move further into it what do you think I think you're being too judgey to judgey oh okay or not judgey enough and I'm not saying when I say I think
you're being too judgey I don't mean to say that you that you don't have some valid concerns and I absolutely think that you should talk more deeply to Richard about those concerns it seems to me the the most important
concern is that his sense of regret or his sense of you know I believe him that it's true that he that he just sort of put that out of his brain and you know did what he wanted to do at that time but
now as the you know the 30 year old or 30 something that he is I would want to know if he's reflected upon those things and really thought about the consequences of his actions I will say though to me that's implicit in a the fact that he's told you about these things be the fact that he then
spent the last seven years not cheating on girlfriends you know you you ask if he's trustworthy you know you say I'm not willing to commit to somebody who I don't
believe trustworthy and yet maybe you should think about you know what is trustworthy mean to you just trustworthy mean never having made a mistake or it is trust
where they mean telling you the truth about his life and if it's the latter you've got that this is somebody who has admitted his past mistakes to you even though he knows you feel
judgmental about them he's also shared with you that his friends some of his friends are cheaters and he knows that that deserves you to would you
know that he covers that and doesn't tell you those things when you say that you surround yourself with people who are good people and don't cheat on their significant others what I want to say is you don't really know who's
to know their significant and you know sadly what you're going to find out probably over the next few decades is some shocking information about people you love you're going to find out people you thought were
committed and being honest with our partners you see deceived them at times you know life and love are complicated and I'm not saying that it's okay to be without a moral compass I'm not saying it's okay to deceive and lie and cheat I am saying however that a lot of
people make a lot of mistakes in this realm of life and it doesn't necessarily mean that they're immoral right I absolutely think you're right to put a high
value on honesty and fidelity and faithfulness and committed relationships but I think that what you have on your hands here is a man who's actually willing to have an open and honest
discussion with you about it you know who I'd be so much more afraid of the guy you met on the dating app at the age of 30 who claimed to have an
absolutely pure background who claimed to have this moral righteous high ground I would never do this I would never do that I
know and you know what those are the people who actually have and do and will right and so I think that lower those
judgments open that mind open that heart have some real discussions make yourself vulnerable ask him you tell him that
it scares you that he's done this in the past ask him for a deeper search and you know maybe he's I bet he's telling you the truth
that he hasn't thought about it much but that's the cool thing about a relationship is you get to then
discuss things in a more deep way I will tell you my husband my dear husband who I've been with for almost 21 years now
I was in this very same situation in fact worse when I met him he could say to me I've never been faithful to anyone
there wasn't the seven years that he said well I was always faithful during that time he'd never been faithful to a girlfriend
and this was hard for me to I really thought okay what am I getting into with this guy but what I found is what I got into was a man who was
really struggling with his relationships with women and really struggling with how to be monogamous and you know that's been a journey
and I am really glad that I decided to undertake it with him and a huge key point for me wasn't is he perfect it was is he honest is he open is he willing to grow
did you kill Marlene Johnson I think you're one of the first people to have actually us from WBUR and ZSP media this is beyond all repair
a new podcast about an unsolved murder that will leave you questioning everything somebody should be in jail for murdering my sister
a woman who's never been believed as long as they think I have done this then they're not looking for who actually did this
and that's what makes it a cold case no it's a botched case and a search for the truth once and for all
wow it just gets more interesting beyond all repair listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts be careful
you're digging in a place that's been very peaceful for a while do it anyway dig
do your sugars while traveling for six months I met a guy when we met my heart melted and I instantly developed a hardcore crush on him
he's a tall dark handsome motorcycle riding musician with a nice accent we had a great fling
I became emotionally attached to him but since we are only in the same place for a month and there's no long term potential for the relationship I did my best to keep it light and emotion free
we've been messaging sending pictures and sexting ever since I left and I've been fantasizing about meeting up with him again in some foreign place and now the opportunity has arisen for that to actually happen
he will be house sitting in Sicily for a few months and working on his music I'm weightlifting state side as I wait for graduate school to start he hasn't actually asked me to join him
but I think he might say yes if I propose the idea here's my question do I go and spend a few fun filled weeks with him even though it will leave me broke
jobless and possibly heartbroken or do I continue down my logical responsible path and be grateful for the fun we had
Steve said that crushes leave you crushed and I know how painfully true that is but Cheryl says to put yourself in the way of beauty and what's more beautiful than a hot boy on a Sicilian beach I would be deeply grateful for your perspective and maybe even your blessing hopelessly wanderluster
I have only one thing to say oh my god and that is there is nothing more beautiful than a hot boy on a Sicilian beach I pretty much knew you're going to say that
wanderluster go don't even you know think don't even look back just go have fun you said you said you signed up for this you're going to be broke
you're going to be you're going to possibly be heartbroken you know those things as long as you know those things go honey I think absolutely this is fun this is the moment of your life to do these things do not look back go to that beach go to that boy have a blast
lick your wounds later wow I can't believe you even are thinking there's another answer to this question
the only caveat I would add is try to do a little bit of a self inventory no no just go just go man do the inventory later with the hot memories of this fabulous guy on a beaten Italy
okay all right okay what inventory could possibly be take please try to remember that I am Jewish so I'm sitting there going oh my but what if she goes over there
and he's recording music and he's got another one on the side and she's not really the person you know who he's going to spend time if you know that he has signed up for you to be there and that you're going to have this wonderful
ecstatic experience where at least this his interest other than being in the music studio is to be with you and that is co-mutual great but unless she's do a little bit of prophylactic no no just go
gathered here today to celebrate this thing called life and the great words of our dearly beloved and recently departed prints and this is what life is yeah what if what if she goes and he's you know
day she shows up and he's fucking the neighbor you know so be it like I think that this is the beauty of life this is that that's the beauty of life I show up in Sicily for my hot boy to have this ecstatic experience and he's
fucking the neighbor and I'm getting sloppy second and that's yeah she's gonna say do you think it's a good she says I think he's going to say yes and that's of course if he says no don't come don't go but if he's like yeah go okay it sounds great go with it let's go crazy
maybe rest in funk I get it but she's really proposing to spend a whole bunch of money and more of the point invest like a big part of her heart I think she should know that two things one that he wants her to be there and is going to spend
time with her because we have all been in situations where it seems great and romantic and wonderful and then that hot Sicilian boy is off with somebody else and you're left in the shadows
I know because men adore you but just imagine for a moment that there's a world in which a young woman who is telling us in her letter that she is emotionally vulnerable to this guy she's kind of in between things and ready to throw her heart fully into and she throws her heart into it
and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going
to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into
the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she
was going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her heart into the shadows and then she's going to throw her
I've been a serial monogamous for most of my adult life which included a six year relationship. I wasn't looking for love when I met S but from the very first date I was completely taken with her. She's one of the most interesting people I've ever met. Everything about our relationship is wonderful. We support each other, we have shared interests, the sex is amazing and we're moving in together. Despite this, I've not been able to dampen my desire to sleep with other women. This desire manifests itself
only when S is not around, which wouldn't be an issue except that she travels regularly for work. A couple of times I've initiated contact with other women in order to hook up, but I haven't followed through because I don't want to cheat on S. I'm excited by the idea of sleeping with other women and being desired. While I haven't had physical contact with another woman while I've been with S, I believe I've cheated on a psychological level. S has been cheated on in the past and I don't want to cause her that pain again.
We're so good for each other and I don't know why I would be jeopardizing our relationship by these desires. Sugars, do you have any insight on why I've become this person? Signed Bad Partner. I'm going to offer an educated guess. I think that your cold feet are taking the form of hot loins basically. The fact that you have escalated this relationship that everything seems to be lining up that you're moving in together has
consciously or probably more so unconsciously triggered a kind of panic and it is taking the form of doing the one thing that you know would sabotage the relationship. Because after all, you could have a conversation with a partner ostensibly and say, well, I know we're moving towards moving in together and getting more committed and let's talk about the relationship and what fidelity means and what the nature of all relationships will be and so forth. That's not what's happening.
Instead, it's choreographed in a way where they talk about moving in together the commitment ramps up and he immediately does the one thing that he knows is guaranteed to break her heart and to send her in the other direction. That's my guess.
Yeah, I agree with that. And since you took a psychological approach, which I think is very much I encourage you, Bad Partner, to ponder everything Steve said. I also want to address just the biological answer to your question.
And that is the reason that you desire other women is that's just perfectly biologically natural for you to be doing. I think throughout your life, but especially at this point in your life, you're a 29 year old man, you know, and I think that science has proven to us over and over again that human sexuality. We aspire to monogamy.
And so many of us really value being a monogamous partnerships for the emotional things that that can offer us, but physically we, you know, that doesn't shut off sometimes our desire for other people.
And so the way that most people manage to make a monogamy work is that they don't give in. They do what you've done so far. Right.
You see the desire and then you don't act on it. You make sure not to put yourself in a situation that would cause you to act on those desires. And I think over time, you learn how to get better at doing that. Right.
So my answer to your release is just like, listen, you're not alone in this. This isn't an idea. Like you're not a bad partner because you sometimes think about having sex with other people.
You're not a bad partner if you act on it and lie to yourself and your partner and deceive her in some way. And you haven't done that. What you're doing is really struggling with essentially an internal conversation.
I will say though, there are some red flags for me when you say a couple of times you've initiated contact with other women with a hook up. So you are at least reaching toward acting out against your better judgment.
And you, you know, something else intervenes and you stop yourself from doing it. But you know, I think that this might be something worth exploring in a sort of deeper way, either with a therapist or with us, really openly because the way the way to get rid of this kind of stuff that's really rooted in shame is to bring it into the light and explore some of the reasons that you're, you know, at odds with yourself.
Most men and women for that matter, but since we're talking to a male letter writer, bad partner, feel that when they start to move towards a happy, successful relationship and they move in together, there's a kind of panic because what's happening psychologically, but also Cheryl points out biologically as you're essentially saying I'm going to be just with this one person from now on.
So you have this set of desires, the idea of sleeping with other women, other bodies, other forms of pleasure being desired by other women, those are now implicitly and explicitly being forbidden.
And I will say we all want to see you and boy on the beach.
We do. But long, I was going to say Steve, long time listeners of the show will know I am not a polyamorous person myself, but I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to put in a word here for all of our poly listeners.
Yeah, who are right now like shaking their fists at us as we have this incredibly like heteronormative monogamous, you know, sort of like talk as if monogamy is like the great thing that we should all aspire to.
Another solution to the, I want to have sex with people other than the one person I'm in a committed relationship with is to open a relationship up and to talk honestly with us and decide the terms and maybe those terms will include having other lovers.
You never know, it doesn't sound like from this letter, you don't mention that, but I will say that is another path to the mountaintop.
So this is a silly beach as it were, or at least a silly beach.
Exactly.
Okay.
Abon Banzai's our last letter.
Final letter.
Dear sugars, I have found the most incredible woman. She's smart, beautiful, warm, caring, and my friends and family think she's fantastic.
We haven't been dating all that long, so I'm not going to rush into anything. It's too soon. But we see eye to eye on everything.
We've had some pretty significant talks, things like where we'd like to live, views on life, money, work, relationship sex, etc. big conversations.
All the major items on our respective checklists are sorted. We match up splendidly and I cherish our time together.
Here's the issue.
I'm divorced. I broke up with my ex four years ago and I've learned a lot since then about myself, about relationships, and especially about life.
At 35, I've finally had healthy relationships and I've found forgiveness for my ex. I feel ready to be married again.
But the question that lurks at the back of my mind is, how do I really know?
Divorce was the worst thing I've ever experienced, even though I'm the one who initiated it. There's no way I want to do that again.
I rushed into marriage the first time I see now, but when it comes to doing it again, I don't want to wait forever.
My girlfriend and I have plans to take a trip to Europe later this year.
I see that as a perfect time to ask her to marry me. At that point, we won't have been together a year yet, but it'll be getting close.
Is that long enough? Why am I worried about if it's seen as long enough?
Am I worried that others think I'm rushing into it again?
My best friend is the only one I've told I could see myself marrying her. He can be brutal when it comes to analyzing relationships, and he's been right about everyone I've been in, including my former wife.
He didn't flinch when I told him I thought she was it. He said he'd be happy to see it, lend me your insight sugars, sincerely help me be ready.
Love, love, so help me be ready. One of the things I often ponder is when people ask us a question, it often arises because they're asking themselves.
You are feeling doubt about doing this thing you want to do. You want to ask your girlfriend, but you do feel like it might be a little early.
I say trust that. I'm not thinking that you need to wait terribly much longer, but I do think that a European vacation is not the only cool place you can make a marriage proposal.
Why not just give it a few more months to sort of quell that doubt that you seem to have, the doubt that compelges to write this letter?
Let it ride. It's not going to make a difference if you propose 18 months into your relationship as you would 10 months into it.
I think because you're feeling this doubt, because you have this fear of doing what you did before, why not give it a little more time? That would be my advice to you.
If you still love her, it doesn't matter if people think you're rushing into it. You know what's in your heart. You know that marriage is never a guarantee.
You know that you could get married again and divorced as much as you don't want to do that.
And so you need to enter into it with that, I guess, embracing that sense of doubt and certainty. You're never going to know for sure even if you tell yourself you do.
In fact, that's kind of a setup. You know, I agree and I think that it's significant. Help me be ready for one that you're asking us to help you be ready.
I wish we, that's above our pay grade. You have to help you be ready.
But we can certainly suggest some things that stand out in the letter and are a little not fishy exactly, but there was a question in my mind in a couple of places. One is that you said, you know, we've had talks, the big conversations about life and money and work and relationship and sex, everything.
And I say, well, but not about marriage and divorce and children. Have you had those discussions? Have you told her, I really feel good in this, but I also have been bitten.
And so I'm twice shy. And what's been her response? Have you thought about the events that led to your divorce and what the arc of the relationship was and whether there are similarities or whether there are distinct differences and how you've conducted yourself with this relationship.
And so if you're not a relationship, Cheryl's right, if there is doubt that's arising, it's not coming from nowhere. It's coming from some identified part of yourself that's looking to external factors. Your friends and family lover, your best friend says she's good for you. Is that enough? They can't answer that question for you because they're not going to be in the marriage with you.
And they're not going to be in the engagement with you. So you need to spend some time within yourself discussing that and also having big conversations with this woman who you love so much.
And what I think about is the idea of kind of choreographing the perfect moment is a setup. There's no perfect moment. The moment that's perfect is when it feels like you can say, I am ready, not because my family and friends and the checklist says yes, but because I and my heart and soul am ready to take the risk of saying, let's do this thing together. And Cheryl's right, it is a risk. No relationship, no matter how good it looks on paper or how good it looks to everybody around you is guaranteed.
And you ask, how do I really know? You don't know. I mean, what I've come to understand in my own life and my own decisions about romantic relationships is is that you, you can really know what's true in a moment or an era of your life.
And we also really know that those truths will change over time. So yeah, I would say listen to the doubt, the doubt that compelled you to write to us. That doesn't mean that you won't marry this woman someday.
And then you can maybe just listen to those doubts and we wish you all kinds of love and luck in this relationship.
That's right. We do. And that brings us to the end of love and doubt. Love and doubt. I think that kind of lived up to it. All of these people struggling towards it.
It's such a beautiful ideal. And it's like nobody has a clear path. I wouldn't even trust a clear path.
It is love's ally. If it's properly understood as something that's telling you you need to think more deeply about making a life with this person or making a hot European vacation with them.
Indeed. Well, in many of these letters, they were fearful that the fact of the doubt meant that this relationship isn't sustainable or they should get out of it.
In some cases, it is. If you're really doubted in something that's essential and deeper about a relationship, you should absolutely listen to it. And it might be the doubt that guides you out of the relationship.
But many times is the thing that takes you deeper into it.
Right.
We must. We must. We must tell you that dear sugar is produced by WBR in Boston. We are produced and edited by Lisa Tobin. And we're recording today a talk back sound and visual right here in Portland, Oregon.
Josh moment is our engineer theme music by the Portland musicians known as Wonderly and the vocals are by Liz vice. She is terrific. Listen and subscribe to dear sugar radio on iTunes and write to us if you would at dear sugar radio at gmail.com.
