I'm Oprah Winfrey.
Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast.
I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time.
Taking time to be more fully present.
Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now.
Welcome to part two of our conversation.
We all know technology is changing the world at the speed of light.
What do you think fashion is going to look like, the industry is going to be like in the next 50 years?
Probably would be something I could never tell you because I don't know.
Fashion changes and it doesn't change.
The industry is changing with the internet and all the things that are going on and how to sell and how retail is and so the businesses are changing.
I believe that if you
50 years is a long time in an industry that changes overnight and has in and outs.
And the key is how did I make it 50 years?
I think it was paying attention to change and also having a sense of what I was doing and who I was and what did I have that made you want it.
I didn't have the schooling at the same time.
I went and did all these things.
And I'm aware of change, and I'm aware of the sense of knowing who you are and not going with the fashion trend at the moment and saying, this is who we are.
And I think that's what I would say to young people all the time about people in fashion, is don't pay attention to what the right is right.
Just pay attention to what you believe in.
And you were solidly clear about that.
Very clear.
Very clear.
And I've been clear today.
Have you ever been tempted to stray, to follow a trend, to be like the others?
I am.
I have my moments.
I have young kids in some of the neighborhoods, the lowboys and guys in Japan.
That collect my clothes and they're 20 years old.
So, you know, I know there is a quality that is timeless.
It was timeless for me and it's timeless for other people.
It's timeless for women.
That's who I am.
And it's not about am I conservative, am I classic?
It's about knowing how to change, knowing how to move, knowing how to update yourself, and knowing when to hold on and not lose your sense of who you are.
You told Forbes magazine that I'm not a fashion person.
I'm anti-fashion.
I've never been influenced by it.
So help us understand how a fashion designer is anti-fashion.
That's a title.
That's a title.
My inspiration is I want to be the guy on the horse, the cowboy.
I want to be...
I want to be the guy in the movie who's got the tweed jacket.
There are symbols of things that make you, that excite you.
If I look at an old movie, 1930s movie, Black and White, and I say, wow, I love that movie.
That still exists.
60, 70 years later, that still exists.
Change is important, but knowing who you are is very important.
So you're the official designer for the U.S. Olympic team and Paralympic teams in the U.S., open for tennis in the U.S., open for golf.
And you told me once that you designed for America.
What does that idea of America mean to you?
Well, I was born in this country.
It's been very good to me.
When I started, stores came up to me and wanted to buy my clothes.
They were very enamored by Europe and not America.
They all think it all happens over there.
That's when I really felt my patriotism, or whatever you want to call it, is when I felt there was so much in this country that was exciting, and so much that was interesting, in a white clabboard house, in a log cabin, and things that I just,
They had a whole pile of romance for me and I saw a life living and also the clothes that you'd wear in that world.
So it was the pioneer spirit.
It was the natural spirit.
It was old leather saddles.
It was all the kind of things that have a timelessness.
And America has a lot of that.
And we're known in America for mass production.
And I think America
And my goal was to show you how America, that someone from America make beautiful quality.
Because if you go into a store and you start to look at the American products, you say, wait, this is not the same as I get in Italy.
This is not the same in Paris.
Right, right.
And as an American, I know it had an effect on me.
It had an effect because I felt like I could make great stuff.
And I want that great stuff.
I want that handmade jacket.
I want that thing.
And I felt there were other people like me.
And that's how I worked.
You know, there's a collective feeling that we're in the midst of a breakdown in civility.
In America, no one taking the time to listen to each other?
Do you feel the shift in how we're treating each other?
And how do you describe these times we're living in?
And does that affect the way you design?
Well, it affects the way I live and who I am.
I have an optimism about design.
So my world is optimistic.
I think we're going to go through it just like we go through other things.
We're going to go through whatever bad times we're having now.
And actually, sometimes things have to take a little longer to go and find its root.
And I think that that's where we are.
I think, yeah, I don't like
How we appear right now.
I think people want to interview me and say, what do you think of America now?
And it used to be that I would come to Europe and they would say, I love America.
They were very enthusiastic.
We're hammering it down a little bit, and it's a tough time.
It's a tough time in this country.
But I think we're going to be OK.
In 2015, you stepped down as CEO of the corporation, Ralph Lauren Corporation, but you remained chairman and its chief creative officer.
Did you know in your bones that that was the right decision?
Well, it was the wrong decision at that moment.
Was it?
And I changed it and went another way.
And I'm very happy this way.
But I have a great CEO.
I've always had partners working with me, people that are financially toned to know what's going on and...
I don't think you can do it all yourself.
Anyone who thinks they can do it all.
Especially as vast as it is.
So it's a very big company and it has to be turned the right way and it needs to be able to communicate within itself because now I'm all around the world.
So I'm in China, I'm in Japan, I'm in Russia.
I don't think you're ever going to retire, will you?
I think people tomorrow night are waiting for me to say I'm retiring.
I would hope that I know when I should retire and that I'm watching a baseball player or watching a boxer through my years and saying, hey, you should have quit.
Don't get killed.
I think I'm tuned into where qualities that are good and where I'm weak and where I'm not weak.
Where are you weak?
Well, I can't do everything.
I think weak in terms of when you have a company that is large,
You have to make financial decisions.
You have to make a lot of different decisions.
Was it difficult to close those stores?
I think it was 2016 you closed 50 stores.
It was difficult because emotionally, you know, you build something you think it's going to be forever.
You learn your process.
We all go up and down.
I have had a very consistent point of view.
I built a very good company.
But companies go through ups and downs.
People go through ups and downs.
And you've gotta accept it.
And I think what happens when you get older, as you become more experienced,
You realize that you don't know everything and you've got to get the professionals with you, but you've got to get the right professionals.
And that's the most important thing.
That takes time finding the right leadership.
Well, that's important for them to communicate with you so you're both in sync with each other as to where you want to go and who you want to be and what you see.
Well, it was 1994 you became the first designer to hire an African-American male model as the face of your brand, Tyson Beckford.
I remember that.
It was such a big moment.
How can fashion better represent the diversity of the country?
Very much.
I think fashion can.
We're learning.
The world is changing
What i learned in the 50s and 60s not the same as today and i work with all kinds of models and tyson is a handsome guy that i said i want this guy to be on cover
I think it's exciting
Unfortunately that was considered a bold move back there
Well, you know, I think America's getting an education.
We're getting an education about racism, and where the world is, and what's right or wrong, and how to treat each other.
Women's rights and all in all the areas
But if you look at some of the designers today you have people that have talents that are all over the world and i think the world is changing
It may take a little longer but fashion in the in the fashion industry that's the industry i think that has no
No sense of negative sensibility about models or actors or the sensitivity is we want to do the right thing so your story as you know is the definition of the american dream and
For 50 years, you've defined what that looks like to the world.
Do you think that this American dream can still exist?
Could there be another, obviously not another Ralph Lauren, but your story?
Is that story still possible for people the way the world is set up?
Have to think it has to be possible because we go forward and as much as you think well look at people would say look at all the designs what's gonna happen when they're not here
Yeah well the world doubled and quadrupled and there's more designers now than ever has been and so i think there's a
I think there's a
A world that's changing and growing and designers are growing.
It's a lot of designers, some of them should make it and some won't make it.
But there is going to be a change and is there another Ralph Lauren?
I'm sure there is.
So Women's Wear Daily, often called the Bible of Fashion, recently published this book, as we talked about it earlier, chronicling your dazzling 50 years in the business.
And you said looking through the pages is like looking through the most beautiful album, but not only your work, but also your life.
One of my favorite poems is by Derek Walcott.
It's called Love After Love.
And he says, the time will come when with elations,
You will look at yourself in your own mirror.
And he goes on to say, you will be able to sit and feast on your life.
Are you able to look through the pages and sit and feast on your life?
I think I do.
I think I enjoy what I see and it reminds me of what I've done because we do forget.
Every once in a while it is important to
In my office I have all kinds of pictures and all kinds of trophies and things.
I forget them, but every once in a while I walk through my office quietly and I look at the things and I look at the pictures of some of the people I know and some of the toys I've been given and it makes me smile, it makes me happy.
I'm very happy in my office.
It's a world that I sort of built around myself of things that I love, whether it's old cars or whether it be little antique shoes or whatever it is.
How they came about and how they integrated in itself, I don't know.
But my happiness is really a very, I love what I do and I wouldn't want to trade it.
I wouldn't want to trade with anybody.
I'm very happy with what I've achieved.
I'm happy.
What do you want your legacy or hope your legacy be?
I had this wonderful conversation with Maya Angelou before she died, and I was cheering with her how excited I was about opening my school.
And I said, oh, Maya, I wish you'd been there because
This school's going to be my greatest legacy.
And she said, you have no idea what your legacy will be because your legacy is every life that you've touched.
And when I think about, you know, in the personal and impersonal ways, you, your brand, has touched my life.
I remember growing up thinking,
What real wealth was, was being able to have good towels.
So as soon as I made any money, I went, I've shared this before, I went to the Ralph Lauren store and I bought all the Ralph Lauren towels that could fit into my linen closet and had them folded the same way
You all folded them in the store so that when I opened the cabinet it would look like a Ralph Lauren store.
And that was an aspirational moment for me.
I felt like, now I've made it.
And when Barbara Walters came to do her first interview, I showed her my towels.
She said, what have you done as a wealthy person?
I go, would you like to see my Ralph Lauren towels?
Yes.
So your legacy.
I think I feel this.
I don't know what my legacy is.
I don't know if I want to think of legacies.
I want to just continue doing what I'm doing or doing whatever I can to make things better.
What do you hold sacred?
Good question.
I don't know if I can answer that question because I never thought of that.
I think of myself and how I am as a person.
I've made mistakes.
I'm not an angel.
I'm not God.
But I do see goodness in the world.
I don't want to give you all this blowing smoke at you.
I really feel good about being good.
I feel good about doing the right things.
I'm very busy with a lot of worlds and a lot of things.
So on some levels, you miss each other.
I've been married for 54 years.
That's a long time.
And you miss each other.
You can have a conversation.
You're living together.
And then you have an argument.
And you say, why do we have that argument?
And I don't want to hurt that person.
And so you go through things and you forget.
So what I do like is I'm looking for peace and comfort.
I have what I need.
I don't want to not work because I love working.
I think I wanted to give.
When I opened this place in Harlem, Ralph Lauren Center for Cancer Care, I was very thrilled I did that.
I was thrilled because I had nothing to gain.
Out of that.
It wasn't a public relations plan.
You were just doing it to create awareness for the fight against cancer.
If it was a public relations plan, I would have hated it.
So what I don't want is that.
I'm really still a very simple person.
I don't feel like I'm exotic.
It's been going 15 years now, because in 2003 you did that.
The cancer center, the Ralph Lauren cancer center.
Yes, yes.
So things don't always work as well as you want them to work, but I think you've got to stop and smell the roses occasionally.
I just wanted to say, though, that the Pink Pony campaign is like a worldwide initiative helping to ensure access to quality treatment at an earlier, more curable stage for women.
That's what you've done.
So that will be a part of your legacy.
Well, I don't know how you add up legacies.
Yes, it's every life you touch.
I love that one.
So when you sit on the perch of your life and you're feasting on your life, that beautiful poem, at what point did you say, oh, gee, I'm successful?
And how do you define that?
I never said it.
Never said it.
I am aware of it.
I'm aware of success.
I'm aware of being recognized.
I'm aware of getting the best seat when I go into a restaurant.
And I like it.
But I don't want to need it.
I don't want to need it.
I think I think I see too many people need it.
And I want I am free of that.
And I'm not totally free.
Yeah.
You know, yeah, I would say that, too.
I would have to agree with you because when you've had it for so long, you don't know what it's like not to have it.
Yeah.
So it just feels like I know because I have I have.
Some nice things and I'm aware all the time.
I'm totally always aware of remembering what it was like when I didn't have it.
Really?
Yeah.
Don't you think that's the best though?
I actually think that having grown up not having things
Yes.
Makes me so much more appreciative of the things that I have.
Yes.
And having grown up not with this whole sense of beauty around me, I didn't even have what you have being able to, I didn't even know it existed, gives me a greater sense.
Well, I had the same thing.
You're aware of who you are.
Mm-hmm.
But when you grow up and you don't have, I remember going to a friend's house and this guy, and he opened the closet to his father's closet, and he had shoe trees.
This is almost like your towel story.
He had shoe trees in all of the shoes.
And i said wow that looks great
And i went home to take a look at my shoes with thrown into my closet all over the place and uh because i had two brothers i have two brothers and a sister and we used to share the closet so you could imagine yeah
It sounds like it's romantic, but it wasn't so romantic.
I lived on a cot in a three-room apartment in the Bronx with my family, and the cot didn't look too good when I took pictures of it.
I couldn't wait for one of my brothers to get married so that I could have his drawer in the closet.
Did you choose shoe trees?
I have shoe trees now.
You have shoe trees now.
I have shoe trees now.
And I love it.
Was there a choice that you had to make that allowed you to fulfill your destiny
Of being who you are, sitting where you are now.
That was difficult.
You never did have a difficult choice.
I didn't have a choice.
I really didn't stop and say, this is what I'm going to do.
I'm going to make a right turn here and a left turn here.
I did it every day, every day at work.
So are you just operating on instinct or are you just going by your gut?
No, I operate on instinct but I also operate with talent around me.
I don't think you live it alone.
You have talent, you have people that know you and know how you think and you can bounce ideas off and they're stimulating.
I was going to open the store right opposite my mansion on 72nd Street.
And my right arm at that time, Peter Strom, he said, I said, you know, we've got to get that store.
As soon as I was walking into my mansion that was monumental on 72nd and Madison, I said, let's get that store across the street.
Now, what does that sound like for a guy who's saying he's humble?
I was excited by change and growth.
And expansion, yes.
And he said, Ralph, you can do whatever you want.
He said, if you take that building, you'll be out of business.
So you take the choice.
And I went with him.
He was right.
You listened.
I listened, and I think I got to know when to listen and when to not listen.
You can't have someone tell you what to do every time, or they may not have the same thing in your mind.
You have a gut inside you that says, I can do this.
I'm going to make it.
And then when it doesn't happen,
You feel like, why didn't I make this?
So what you're saying is also, which I found this to be true, the key to actually continuing to move forward, expansion, no matter what it is, you've got to surround yourself with the right people.
Every time I hire a good person, I'm elated.
I say, oh, wow, she was great.
I'm glad she's here.
That is one of my joys, believe it or not, in building a company and enjoying the sense that it stands alone.
It's a public company now.
I have to do a job.
It's not a private little kid walking around with shoes.
I have to do something.
I have to make this be important.
People invest their money in the company.
People are spending hard-earned money to buy my stock.
And I have to do as best I can to correct them.
And I've got to take chances and I've got to do what I believe in.
And if you don't believe in it and step back and get nervous, then you're going to trouble.
So it's always important to have the right person with you, to have the right talents.
I'm opening a store today, actually, downtown.
And it's beautiful.
But it was a bad store before but business was bad
People talking about retail being not successful
The store is going to be a winner
What makes your stores winners
I mean i love the store in chicago so much
I used to just go when i just wanted to like refresh myself whether i was going to buy something or not because it's like stepping into a story
Yes yeah it felt like stepping into a story
That's that's what i do yeah
It's like a movie set.
I'm in the movies.
I don't mean the movies today.
I understand it.
I feel it.
I feel what it is to go somewhere and be inspired.
You need that.
You need inspiration.
And I think the stories I have are not about hanging clothes.
It's like, oh, I love that.
Can I have that?
Can I have that whole, I want that chair and the blanket.
I want that.
Oh okay you all are doing that on purpose because i want the whole thing
I want the thing that's on the mannequin and i want the thing behind it yeah and i want the chair and then i want that
Yes i want the pillow next to that
I want on all of it
I'm still the same way.
I'm that way too.
That is, you love the dream.
You have values.
That's why I think when we spoke, I saw a connection to you that was really nice and was a matter of, I miss that.
Yeah.
And this is what happens your values come through in your clothes
That's what you're saying about what we were talking earlier about integrity
So we're going to a big celebration tomorrow night and there will be
All of us there wearing our vintage Ralph and our new Ralph and people will be giving you standing ovations and accolades and you won't even know where to turn in that room with all of the love coming forth.
And when you leave, what will you be most grateful for?
That i made it through the night to be honest with you i'm looking forward to it
I'm also i've i've lived through so many different things but i it's a little painful going through this
Is it because i am not a party person and i i like my own privacy and i feel like when i invite somebody
I'm sort of saying, why would they go to my party?
Because I don't like to go to places.
But it's very exciting that you're coming.
It's very exciting.
People that just wanted to come, and I'm like, oh, my God.
I feel like, what am I going to do now?
Sit there and receive it.
I feel like I'm going to disappoint everyone.
I'm sure of myself, but I'm not sure of myself like anybody.
I don't want to disappoint anyone.
I don't want anyone to say, oh, it's a dull party or... That's not going to happen.
You know that.
Well, it's not, you know, I know it and I don't know it.
I honestly, honestly am very thrilled that people are coming and people that I admire, people I respect.
It's a wonderful thing.
We're celebrating the 50 years.
It's obviously, it's a landmark.
But for you, it's just, it's like 50 and now then next year will be 51.
Well, I'm already designed into 1951 and 1952.
So it's not a matter of that.
I don't take anything for granted.
I don't know how to think about this thing.
I can't find...
The uplifting of life.
I don't have a big philosophy about this day.
I don't want to be disappointing.
You know, when you watch the Academy Awards and someone gets up and speaks, you want them to say something that means something to you in two minutes.
You want them to, you know...
And some of these wonderful actors and actresses, they can't say it in two minutes.
That's right.
And they can't blow you away in two minutes.
And I've made some speeches where I was, oh my God, I made a great, look at it.
I never write my speeches.
I just say it from the heart.
But we're not coming to your speech, Ralph.
You have to know.
Nobody's coming tomorrow night.
Certainly I'm not.
People are coming because of you and what this represents.
It's because it's like a gathering celebration
Of shared aspiration and values.
That's what it is.
It's like as we celebrate you, we also get to celebrate that part of us that wants to aspire to be the best of ourselves.
That's what it is.
So you don't even have to worry about the speech.
I do it.
Yeah.
I do it and it comes.
Yeah, it's going to come.
And it'll come if it's natural and I can handle it.
Yeah.
I'm curious.
But until it happens, I'm busy working on everything I have to do.
Yeah.
And I feel it's going to be interesting and I hope it comes out as we see it.
But you are really, I haven't spoken to you in a while
I remember why I like you so much and the way you get into it and you really dig into the soul of everything.
But for yourself, too.
Yes, for myself, too.
Yeah, I see it.
Well, I want to thank you for being who you've been all these years.
Thank you.
Thank you for the integrity.
Thank you.
We need it more than ever in this world.
Thank you.
All right.
Looking forward to tomorrow.
I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast.
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