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One of the most romantic stories I've ever told in my life in my memoir and on this podcast is the one about my sister Brett and her husband Ben.
You might remember the story about them from our season two episode called Beware the Fairy Tales.
That episode is all about meet-cutes and whether your how-we-met story with someone is actually important.
In that episode, Brett shares the story of how she met Ben at this holiday craft fair in New York City.
She walked right up to him and said, and hit on him rather aggressively.
Here's a clip from that old episode.
I look in front of me he's goddamn right in front of me and I see my now husband, who looks just like Seth Rogen which was like hashtag marriage goals staring off into space because he's probably super baked.
And I remember thinking, that guy.
Brett asked him out back then, and they started dating.
They got married in 2012, and then nothing changed.
Like really, nothing changed for the better part of a decade.
Until one day, it had to.
Here's Brett now.
The problem is you have felt the entire time that you've been giving him grace, because he's 10 years younger and you know he smokes a lot of weed and he doesn't have like a regular career.
You've been waiting for him to grow up.
But what you have evolved into is a person whose life partner is your sister.
Get ready for some emotions and family reveals.
In today's episode, everything is going to be different.
From the Boston Globe, this is Love Letters.
I'm Meredith Goldstein.
This season has been illuminating for me because I'm at the point in my life where I'd like to change so that I'm calmer and happier and better in relationships.
And now I have all these tools given to me by so many thoughtful guests.
Today's guest is Brett, my sister, who's visited our podcast a bunch of times.
Usually she's comic relief for this show, and she'll be that today too.
But she's also going to tell an emotional story about how hard it can be to change and why allowing for it can be so important.
Brett hasn't talked about this much on Love Letters, but for a very long time she's been chronically ill.
In her late 20s.
After getting a horrible bout of food poisoning, she was diagnosed with Crohn's disease, a gastrointestinal condition.
Over time, the illness evolved into something else.
Really, it became kind of a medical mystery.
Started as Crohn's disease.
It could still be Crohn's disease, but I don't have the poopy problems like a lot of other people do.
And thank God for that.
I did, but now I don't.
So they're not quite sure.
Some say spondyloarthropathy.
Some say enteropathic arthritis.
Whatever it is, it is some kind of chronic systemic inflammation that probably starts in the gut and manifests as arthritis.
Brett's one major symptom, terrible joint pain.
Some days are worse than others.
For a long time, to me at least, it seemed degenerative.
Like worse every year.
And I'll tell you that as Brett's very close sister, I have been freaked out about it.
Because that much pain makes it hard to live.
And the thing about Brett is, she frequently seems to be having the best time.
But I know she's also secretly just trying to get through everything while hurting all over.
Just to give you perspective...
By 2021, when she was 48.
The joint pain in her knees was so bad she needed a walker to get around her tiny New York apartment.
Sometimes it hurt for her to even sit still.
I could barely get to the bathroom every day, but that doesn't mean I wasn't in a good mood.
Really, if I could just get my upper body to work, then that was a good day, I guess.
A thing about Brett's pain, it's always worse in the winter.
The inflammation spikes in any kind of cold.
And that's why at the end of 2021, Brett was like, shit, winter is coming again.
I must do something to save myself.
Actually, she didn't even say that second part.
The person who said it was Bob, our financial advisor.
You might remember Bob from the episode that started the money season of the podcast.
He is the best.
In 2021, Bob, who's always looking out for us, called me and said, I'm worried about Brett.
I'm worried she's going to be in so much pain this winter that she won't be able to survive it.
This scared the shit out of me.
Bob is not one to yell emergency when it's not an emergency.
Bob basically said I know it seems like a frivolous expense you don't have money for, but please encourage her to go somewhere warm for the winter.
We're talking about her health and her life here.
This is the emergency you save for.
From my memory, Florida was kind of his, a little bit of his idea and endorsement.
Certainly his endorsement.
Like, he called me and was like, Brett has to go to Florida.
You're right.
That was his idea.
He also basically said, like, this is what your mother left you money for.
Like, because he knows that I'm like a pretty, pretty princess.
And he was basically like, you want to do it?
Do it.
Like, go for it.
Hit that account.
He was really interested when he called me.
He said, like, there's this big question mark.
Would she be healthier in a warm place?
And like, this is what is worth an investment.
Like, maybe to you, he said pretty, pretty princess.
But to me, he said, this is what you throw money at.
Because if it works, everything's got to change.
So Brett decides to move temporarily to Florida just to see if being there in the winter can stave off some of this horrible pain.
Maybe being in warmth for the winter will help her feel better the rest of the year.
To be fair, this was an idea that had come up before, but it never seemed to make sense.
It was remote work after COVID that made it possible.
Brett is a casting director and a performance coach for actors and executives.
Suddenly, she was able to do a lot of that on Zoom.
So, obviously, you live in New York at this point with a husband.
Walk me through... the conversation you had with Ben about going to Florida?
I don't really remember, but I know the general feeling, which was I said, I'm changing my mind.
I have to do it.
And he was like, okay, I'm not doing it.
And I was like, no, I never expected that you would.
And so then I think like By the time he might have said oh, if you want to talk to me about Florida or you want any help trying to find a place like, let me know.
And I was like, oh, no, no, Meredith and I took care of everything.
It's done.
So I talked to you.
And when you were going, this was a temporary, like, it's like a trial.
Let's see how it feels in the winter.
Winter.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Brett goes to Florida.
And honestly, she hasn't been anywhere really warm since. with fresh air and open space in years.
Because yeah, New York City gets hot in the summer, but it's not like Brett could enjoy it.
She couldn't take the subway because of her mobility issues.
A lot of New York is dirty and cramped, so Brett was homebound.
It never really looked healthy to me.
But in Florida, at the place she winds up subletting, there's fresh air, a pool to exercise in and a slower pace.
I mean, it's Florida.
It was wild because after a month or so Her weird autoimmune disease I assumed would not get better starts to get a little better.
I basically got to the point where at least I could walk with a cane and then eventually just kind of hobble around without one.
But my body shifted.
It loved the heat and humidity.
And all I wanted to do was be in like 110 degrees with 400 percent humidity.
And I felt like I was being healed.
This building Brett sublets in.
It's also a social change for her.
I don't think Brett ever knew the other residents in her building in New York.
But in Florida, it's different.
It's basically all these retired people in their 70s and older.
These are people who own condos in this building with lots of amenities.
Brett starts to make friends and figures out the social structure of the building.
Like who's queen of water aerobics?
Who has a car and can still drive?
These older people are actually fantastic companions for a 40-something with an illness.
They see Brett outside at the pool and they know she wants to get better.
They encourage her to push her body within reason to try to get her to walk in the sand and find her balance, literally.
Once I got pulled out of the ocean by like an 80-year-old Russian man and I was like in tears because I was so embarrassed.
They were bullies. with me from day one, and I loved it.
I loved every minute of it.
Brett had arrived in Florida on New Year's Day 2022.
By that first month, her new friends are asking, wait, you're married?
Why isn't your husband here?
They said, well, he must have a job that he can't leave.
And I said, no, he's a glassblower, and no, he doesn't want to be here.
He doesn't like sunshine or heat.
One friend Josephine, really pokes at why Brett is in Florida alone, because Josephine moved there for similar reasons.
Josephine said, I had debilitating rheumatoid arthritis.
My husband moved us here.
Do you think he wanted to come to Florida?
Absolutely not.
Our entire family is in New York, our children, our grandchildren.
That's what you do when you're married.
And I said oh, with all due respect ladies, I'm Gen X.
The younger generations are independent women.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And they listen to my whole spiel on.
You're old and you don't know what you're talking about basically.
And they looked at me and they said, No, you're wrong.
Ben does visit Brett during this time.
Not as much as I do, but he does go.
They talk every day while she's there.
All the time.
But he's also enjoying being home alone.
On his end.
With Brett gone, Ben's able to go out in New York a lot more, which I assume is a massive relief after a few years in lockdown.
Brett's considered high risk.
She's not supposed to get COVID if she can avoid it.
So Ben has spent more years than most truly quarantining.
Long after lockdown, he was still avoiding crowded indoor events.
He was a super careful masker, which was hard because Ben loves stand-up comedy.
And he really wanted to go to a club and eat a meal. without having to think about it.
Suddenly, with Brett away, he's going to comedy shows many times a week.
During this time, I visit Brett and get to know the area.
I'm also not a pool, Florida beach person, but it's not a hardship to be near Miami in the winter.
And it's so good to see Brett get healthier.
By my second trip.
That cane she'd been using is stored in the closet and she seems to be in less pain.
Brett winds up extending her stay in Florida by a month.
And then another.
Because really, the heat is working.
And it's not going to be warm in New York until May.
At the start of May.
She's like well, I guess I can return to New York for the summer, because it'll be hot again.
Return to my life.
Maybe Ben and I can become Florida people in the winter and New York people in summer.
She doesn't know how they'll afford two places, but they'll figure it out.
She talks to Ben about this.
We were on the phone one night, and I said, we have to have a talk.
So I am feeling so much better.
And what I've learned from traveling to New York and the Northeast is that I can't handle April, which means we are looking more like six and six six months in Florida, six months in New York.
Do I want to do this?
I mean, I'm on the beach and I'm happy and I get to swim in a pool every day and see the ocean.
That's amazing.
But I can't handle cold weather at all.
And cold is 60s for me now.
And can I say what he said?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I mean, he said it.
So he said, hmm, okay.
Well, I don't want to be in Florida.
And I was like, I know.
And it's okay.
I was like, it is okay.
It's absolutely okay.
And he said, well, you also don't like hiking or stand-up comedy or cats.
I don't really know if we should be married anymore.
And I was like, what?
What now?
We've been together almost 15 years, married for almost 10.
You don't hike.
I am allergic to cats.
And yeah, I can handle some stand-up comedy when they're really, really talented.
Love me some Bill Burr, but let me tell you something like I don't need to go six, seven nights a week like you.
I'm a casting director.
I'm not all that interested in seeing that much stand-up.
I'd rather see theater if I'm going to do something.
And I don't think it actually even matters.
And then I gave him a whole lecture on how married people can also have different interests.
This is when they start talking about what I never thought these two people would talk about.
Divorce.
I don't mean to sound naive here.
Lots of people get divorced.
But Brett and Ben get along so well and have so much fun.
Even as she's in Florida, they talk for hours every night.
They just click in this weird way.
But Ben's like, I love New York year-round.
And maybe I want to be a person who has a cat and goes hiking.
Without Brett there, he's getting to enjoy other things he really wants.
And the hard thing was that While I'm hearing about this, despite being Brett's sister, I understand Ben so much.
Ben and Brett coupled up when Ben was young.
She was 34 when they met.
He was 25.
She and I always worried that he hadn't had enough time to figure himself out that the age difference was too great.
But then when he was about 29, he said, yes, I do want this forever.
And he proposed.
He was older and more confident.
But in my opinion, he never really found that confidence alone.
Of course, even though Ben is starting to say maybe we're not meant to be married anymore, he's also not saying we should definitely get divorced.
Because Brett is also kind of his best friend, and they love each other.
It's really confusing.
But it's May and Brett has to decide whether she's going home to Ben in New York City or staying in Florida.
And if she's staying in Florida, what does that mean?
It was basically him just kind of being like, I don't, like, I don't know.
I don't, eh.
And then it was Sylvia.
It was one of the Italian ladies.
She was like, I need to come over.
And I was like, okay.
And she sat me down and she said, go to your sister.
She's like, I love you and I want to have you here.
So does Josephine.
I want you to go.
I was going to stay in Florida.
I was going to stay in Florida.
And that is what Ben and I talked about.
And she said, I don't think this is a good idea for you.
Do it because Meredith will give you better support than we can.
Because what we've realized we talked about it, she and Josephine what we've realized is that, like Meredith is much more your partner than him, and you should be with her.
So go.
So what happens when two possibly codependent sisters live in the same condo in Boston, While one is considering divorce and the other is in a brand new relationship for the first time in years?
And both women fear change.
More after the break.
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We're all out of the ordinary.
There's a battle playing out right now over who should control American universities.
We're going to bankrupt these universities.
In season one, we were guessing what was to come.
Now, we know.
We want nothing less than $500 million from Harvard.
From the Boston Globe and on the media, it's season two of The Harvard Plan.
This time, it really is personal.
Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
John Bean and Connie Nielsen star in Robin Hood.
From Sherwood Forest to the Norman Court, a classic tale reborn for today.
The story continues to unfold.
New episode Sundays on MGM+.
Have you ever seen Grey Gardens, where there are these two eccentric Kennedy cousins and they live separate from society, wearing headscarves and muttering to each other all day?
Or maybe an easier pop culture reference might be practical magic, where the older aunts are like gossiping and making margaritas uninterested in anything but their own spells.
That's kind of what it was like when Brett moved to Boston in the summer of 2022.
It was weird timing because I was about a year into the first serious relationship I'd had in a long time.
My boyfriend knew Brett and I were very, very close.
In theory, he'd understood that he'd become second fiddle with her here.
But the reality of that was different, I'm sure.
He learned quickly that Brett and I needed space.
Also, Brett needed support from both of us, everyone really, as she figured out what was happening.
Her relationship status was so confusing.
If you remember, when I was in Boston, like Ben and I, we would talk on the phone for like three hours and never, and I would literally.
This was my own form of torture that I inflicted upon myself.
He would just talk to me like, oh, let me tell you all about the standup shows and this.
And like, it was all small talk and random.
And I'm like let's see how long it takes before he actually talks about something real, given the fact that our marriage is falling apart.
And I would just sit there and be like, oh, good.
That sounds nice.
It was very clear that and he was clear about it is that what he wanted was to be able, to date people, do whatever he wanted and know that I was still very much there because he wanted to grow up and then decide if I was right for him or not.
He never asked me what I wanted, ever.
And he didn't want to know.
But he was very clear that he loved me and that he just wanted me to wait.
And he wanted to figure out all of the things and be with all of the people he wanted to be with.
And then it would be great if I was.
You know, I will still be there because we still will be married.
Ben does ask to come up to my place to visit Brett during this time, but she doesn't want to see him.
She tells me she doesn't want to feel like she's auditioning for her own husband.
Regardless, as they exist in their marital purgatory, Brett and I find a routine as roommates.
So I get up before you, and it was cute.
It almost.
I know this is going to sound weird and gross, but it almost felt like the beginning of a romantic relationship in the sense that I would always be kind of borderline giddy about waking up every morning and making two full pots of coffee.
But for you every other day, you had iced coffee, I had hot coffee.
And so I had to make the two pots of coffee, but I wasn't bitter about it.
I was psyched because I got to make you coffee.
And then I would stick the coffee in the fridge.
And then I would do the, she's going to come downstairs, no eye contact.
Because you're not a morning person until you've had your coffee and I would leave you alone.
I can't tell you how special this time is.
It also feels like some fever dream.
We start watching 10 episodes of Scandal in a row and doing impressions of the characters.
It feels like sister summer camp.
Brett feels physically better during her summer in Boston than she has during previous summers in New York.
It's easier for her to live here because there's parking and people can just come over and hang out.
And she seems less stressed.
Of course, the thing about Boston is winter is always coming.
By September, she and I have to face that.
I knew like winter was coming, but I also didn't want...
Like, I could have done that for the rest of my life and been happy.
I also know that it wasn't the healthiest thing for you because, like we didn't want to go full Fancy Gray Gardens.
We wanted to, like, like, I needed you to be able to have time with your boyfriend and stuff.
To be fair, it isn't just a boyfriend issue.
When Brett and I are together, we can just forget the world.
We can watch TV in solitude and fully entertain each other.
Sometimes it's healthier when we have some space so we can focus on others.
I think—well, first of all, I mean, the reason why I'm getting emotional is because, like I didn't want to leave you, you know.
But I also knew for all the aforementioned reasons that I had to.
It was weather and it was like you know.
I had a feeling you were never going to have sex again in that condo if I was there.
And so, like, I knew I had to go for your own health.
And so—but I didn't want to.
Sorry.
I'm used to being— funny with you and be like the funny girl.
I'm not used to getting upset.
In September, Brett starts looking online for apartments in Florida again.
I start worrying about how it's going to be affordable for a second winter.
I'm also worried because she doesn't have a real community in Florida.
Yeah, she made a few friends in that building, but she's not going to get that room in that building again.
We don't know many people there.
So that's when we both start thinking, why not California?
We have family in Los Angeles, and it's pretty warm there in the winter.
My paranoid brain is thinking, if Brett has a medical emergency there, our family could help.
For some reason, a thought occurred to me one day while I was sitting there, going wait a minute, I don't have to not do that, because Ben doesn't want to move to California ever, because he wants to be near his family.
It doesn't matter anymore.
I can do whatever.
Brett and I have a lot of angst about her moving all the way across the country for me.
But we realize the flight to Los Angeles is not that much longer than the flight from Boston to Florida.
And I go to L.A. a lot anyway.
For the first time, Brett is making a huge decision without considering Ben as part of the equation.
I was so wrapped up in being especially because I was living with you and so happy.
I was so wrapped up in you that I was basically like look, I can't go back to New York anyway.
Ben's not visiting me here.
He's not visiting me in Florida, really.
Like, so it doesn't, I didn't think because I'm going to LA.
Now I did think if I love it, then that will be a nail in the coffin.
But like that, I was more concerned about you.
Bright goes to California in October of 2022.
At this point, she and Ben still aren't on the same page about what to do with their marriage.
But Brett, seems to have made some decisions on her own.
I remember days when she'd call me from LA and say, I just need him to let a divorce happen.
She's starting to build a life in California, and having a husband far away is weird.
And the more she gets to know her new state, the more a good life there seems possible.
She tries to pull what she calls an Elizabeth Taylor plan with Ben.
Liz Taylor married Richard Burton more than once, right?
Maybe that could be them.
I would be like, we could be like, you know, Liz and Richard and get remarried.
I mean like, but like I can't keep waiting for you to have all these long-term relationships or sleep with half of New York or do whatever you want to do, while you basically just hold me hostage and keep me on the back burner.
Because that's exactly what he wanted.
And, you know, I don't blame him.
I'm a strategic person.
It's like okay, you want to know that your wife, who you love dearly, is going to be there waiting for you.
He didn't want to hear about anything i was doing, but he wasn't saying you are not allowed to.
He wasn't saying that, but it got to the point where, like i would, i would sell it, i would beg.
It was like a new version, where i but like, but he refused.
He wasn't, he was not on board with us getting a divorce ever.
Oh, i even tried The like.
Look, we can redefine our relationship and I will be the best girlfriend you've ever had ever.
And you can tell me all of your relationship problems and I will give you great advice.
I will give you dating advice.
Like I can like, like I will help you.
Like I straight up was like, I will be your pimp.
Like I couldn't, I was trying anything I could to get him to let me go.
Part of it is that she knows Ben is dating.
They both told each other, do what you need to do.
And Brett meets someone, too.
It kind of falls into her lap.
Basically, she's sitting at her friend's house where she's staying.
And a man is suddenly there.
So this guy's sitting in the kitchen.
And I remember her being like, hey, Brett, come out and meet my friend.
I thought he was way closer to my age.
I figured he was closer to 60.
Turns out he was 21 years older.
But I remember looking at him being like, oh, okay.
And I remember him giving me advice, like, don't date anyone over 10 years older than you.
Despite him giving her that advice, he asks her out days later.
He's like, yeah, you're 49, I am 70-something, but I think you should date me.
This man is very handsome, by the way, and boisterous, and he loves jazz.
He's from L.A., so he really shows Brett around like a local.
He gets to know about her chronic illness and says wait, if 60 degrees feels cold to you, I want to take you somewhere.
Let's go to the desert.
One day he was like, would you like to take a drive through Palm Springs?
And I said, absolutely.
Driving through and we drove past Oscars, which is a place where and it happened to be a Sunday afternoon and there are a bunch of way older gay men and they're standing like they're standing like all, even in front of this big building and And they're all twirling rainbow flags.
And I was like, wait, I mean, like real flag twirling, not like, you know.
And I remember, like hanging out of the window like a dog and being like, oh my God, what's happening.
Is there some kind of special event?
And then he was like, no, we're in Palm Springs and it's Sunday.
And I was like, what now?
Back in Boston, when Brett was living with me, I'd ask her if you could invent a perfect place to live.
What would it be like?
She'd say, well, it'd be like 90 degrees.
It'd be filled with gay men who are wonderful.
It would have arts and culture and beauty.
And it would be liberal and accepting.
And it would be big enough to feel interesting, but small enough that I could know everybody.
And I was like, FYI, that place does not exist.
But suddenly I was proven wrong, because Palm Springs is all of these things with gorgeous furniture everywhere.
I literally was like, what paradise is this?
And he was like, this is Palm Springs.
And then between that and the mid-century modern, and like, I literally was like, and he was like this is your place, isn't it?
And I was like, this is my place.
Like, it was like, that was it.
Brett moves to Palm Springs by summer of 2023.
She and her new, older boyfriend continue to see each other and he visits from his place on weekends.
In the summer of 2024.
I'm there with her seeing Janet Jackson live thinking huh.
So much of Brett's life has changed.
It's not like her illness has gone away, but a much better version of it seems possible.
Mental and physical health has become easier to manage.
As for Ben, He eventually realized it's hard to date people and grow your own life if you're still married.
They filed for divorce last September.
They've kept talking as people who care for each other, within reason.
And he and I keep talking, too.
I mean, he's family.
That doesn't go away.
You might wonder what all of this means about whether people can change.
I have lots of answers for that question.
I think one of the reasons Brett and Ben's marriage worked for so long was that Brett loved Ben for who he was and he did not change.
He kept not changing.
And when he did eventually refocus his interests, they didn't line up with what she needed.
I mean, he might want a cat at some point.
Brett, meanwhile, had also spent a lot of time not changing, even though she needed to.
She never prioritized her health.
She always said yes to work obligations, even when her body screamed for rest.
She could not stop herself from smiling through discomfort, even if it meant more pain.
She needed so many people to help her change those things.
First, our financial advisor, Bob.
Then friends in Florida.
Then me.
Then this man in California who brought her to the desert and helped her set up a new life.
And then even Ben, who eventually let her go.
I have long called Brett the queen of inertia, meaning she just keeps doing whatever she's doing, sometimes to a troubling degree.
If I'm in motion, I'm in motion.
If I'm at rest, I'm at rest.
If I'm in a thing, in a hole, it doesn't have to be a bad hole.
It could be a great hole.
I'm in a hole.
With a push, she changed her path before hitting another wall.
Brett's latest relationship with the older man ended shortly before this interview.
It was a lovely experience, but it had run its course.
That brings new discomfort, but that's part of the process of change, letting things go.
What a blessing, all of this.
The end of my marriage, the end of this most recent relationship that I'm in, because and that's very fresh and, I have to say, when you find out what I'm doing this weekend, and even what I did last weekend, it's like, like.
I spent one weekend sitting here being like, I'm sad, my guy isn't here.
And then, all of a sudden, I was like oh, we're on the fast track to being queen, queen of Palm Springs.
Years ago, Brett said many times over she worried that she and ben would break up because they met when he was in his early 20s.
She'd say he's gonna end this relationship right when i get old and then he'll be this new, amazing version of himself because of everything he's learned with me, but he'll be that with someone else, someone younger.
We all wonder about that.
Right, we fear we'll teach people lessons and sit with them through the and then, after a breakup, they'll become someone fabulous, but with some other partner.
Well, In the winter of 2023, I went to New York City to collect a first batch of Brett's things to move them.
It was a sad day and weird, because Ben and I were going through boxes and doing a separation in real time and not really acknowledging what was happening.
And Ben, he's always good company.
He was there when my mom got sick and he could make her smile.
He could make Brett giggle even when she was in horrible pain.
But he always seemed young. not very independent or responsible.
Like along for the ride, but not the person who initiated adult things.
Anyway, I'm in the apartment and I go to the bathroom and I see that Ben has changed the shower curtain.
And for whatever reason, this broke me.
Because Ben was not the kind of guy who'd change a shower curtain without being nagged.
He just didn't do a lot of household responsible things like that without being asked.
And now that Brett was gone I was like oh, Now he's going to water the fucking plants and change the shower curtain to some pretty Target flower design.
Like maybe he had become a totally different guy, ready to bring this grown-up initiative to someone new, just like Brett had feared.
After I left, I texted him.
I basically said, today was hard.
And I got sad because you changed the shower curtain.
Ben responded that it was hard for him too.
He went on to teach me a great lesson about change.
He said via text, if it makes you feel any better, the shower curtain is the one that Brett picked out, ordered and wanted to put up before she moved out.
Finally got around to it a little while back.
Basically, Ben only changed the shower curtain because the other one got super gross probably.
Just like Brett didn't address the big problems in her life until she was told, do this now or else.
They were not people who changed well together, but on their own, they're starting to.
I want to tack on a lesson here about divorce in general, and breakups, and stories.
I always tell people in the advice column stop saying your marriage failed, because it probably didn't.
If you were together happily for years, how is that a failure?
The marriage just changed.
And that has to be okay.
I'll admit I never wanted Brett and Ben to split up because I didn't want their story to change.
It was one of romance and adorableness and happiness of family.
I didn't want to let it go, but I haven't because it's all still true.
And it was always going to look different over time.
I just want them both to keep being happy.
Understanding this has changed me.
Since all of this started, do you think you've fundamentally changed?
Yeah.
My therapist has always said when you are in the archetype of queen, you are healthy in all ways and successful.
When you are in the archetype of worker bee, you are angry, inflamed, miserable, resentful, cynical.
Brett loves talking about archetypes and how we fall into them.
I don't fully get what it means.
But I know that in New York, in her marriage, she was the worker, inflamed.
Single, in Palm Springs, where everyone is kind of a queen, it's easier to do everything.
And she's excited about all of it.
This, to me, if you were to describe what heaven looks like.
This is actual paradise.
Like, I'm not sure I could, like for me, I don't know if actually life could get any better.
Love Letters is a production of the Boston Globe.
Our producer is Christina Huntoon.
Our executive producer is Kristen Nelson.
Uzair Ahmed does our audio mixing and mastering.
Sound design by Christine Ahanatu.
Maddie Mortel is our audience engagement manager.
Special thanks to Nancy Barnes and Linda Henry.
Our music is from APM.
Remember, Love Letters is also an advice column.
Send any questions about dating divorce marriage singlehood whatever, to loveletters at bostoncom.
And if you like this show, please leave us a review.
Learn more at loveletters.show.
I learned what is called a cocktail pool in the front of the house, which apparently is like a normal thing, which is not a pool you swim in.
It's a pool that I guess you drink in to stay cool, and I guess you just pee in it.
It's probably like a toilet pool.
I'm Meredith Goldstein.
Thanks for listening.
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